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  • Hidden update throttling screen in new Win10 Creators Update beta build 15046

    Posted on March 2nd, 2017 at 11:09 woody Comment on the AskWoody Lounge

    UPDATE: Microsoft has responded to the questions I posed below. Please see their responses interspersed with the questions.

    Microsoft’s post on Win10 Creators Update for today talks about a new, giant-sized notification that should appear when there’s an update waiting. It looks like this:

    There are also some tiny changes to the “Schedule the restart” dialog. There’s a rehash of the “Choose privacy settings for your device” sequence during installation. I don’t see any changes from the setup sequence I talked about six weeks ago.

    Other than that, there isn’t much there… there.

    In particular I was hoping MS would talk about the hidden screen in Win10 beta build 15046 that I discussed this morning in InfoWorld.

     

    I don’t see hide nor hair about that dialog. It’d be a real improvement, if it makes the final cut for Creators Update. See my InfoWorld Woody on Windows article for details.

    My questions about the definitions of those settings continue. In particular:

    • How do the “Pause Updates” and “Choose when updates are installed” sections interact? Does one over-ride the other? (Note that the Group Policy associated with this setting has two different options, one for version changes, er, feature updates, and another for “quality” updates.)

    Microsoft’s explanation:

    Deferral is the first concept – this allows you to defer the installation of both Feature and Quality updates: Feature updates for up to 365 days, and Quality Updates for up to 30 days.

    Pause enabled via the UX does indeed over-ride – it stops all updates but Defender from being applicable for the amount of time you set.

    Pause enabled via policy can be differentiated: For example you can pause a feature update while allowing quality updates to continue.

    • If you choose to wait for Current Branch for Business (always a good idea if you don’t want to be an unpaid beta tester), does the “feature update… deferred for this many days” setting kick in after the version hits CBB?

    Microsoft’s explanation:

    The deferral period is based on your branch selection, and the time starts when that branch is released.

    • What, exactly, is a “quality” update? Obviously “quality” includes cumulative updates. But does it include posted-but-not-delivered hotfixes like 14393.577 and 14393.729? What about servicing stack updates? Drivers (especially drivers delivered as updates for Surface Book and Surface Pro machines)? Ad-hoc security patches like the just-released IE and Edge patches? MSRT updates? .NET patches?

    Microsoft’s explanation:

    Feature updates are updates that include additional functionality or features – The Anniversary Update (1607) and the upcoming Creators Update are examples of Feature Updates. Quality Updates do not include new features – these are fixes to existing features that include security updates, driver updates, bug fixes, etc. Here is a good explanation of the various updates within Windows as a Service.

    My questions no doubt sound pedantic at this point. Inside baseball. I assure you, in a few months, many people will be scrambling for answers.

    Let’s hope Microsoft fills in some blanks before the offal hits the fan.

    I want to thank the team at Microsoft for clarifying these points. I still have some questions (what about hotfixes? drivers for Surface?), but it’ll all become clear as we watch the new method unfold.

    By the way, I didn’t ask – and haven’t heard – if the hidden dialog will become part of the final Creators Update.

    If that helped, take a second to support AskWoody on Patreon

    Home Forums Hidden update throttling screen in new Win10 Creators Update beta build 15046

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    This topic contains 65 replies, has 19 voices, and was last updated by  radosuaf 8 months, 2 weeks ago.

    • Author
      Posts
    • #97909 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      I have an inquiry in to Microsoft, to see if we can get any answers. So far, nothing.

      [See the full post at: Hidden update throttling screen in new Win10 Creators Update beta build 15046]

      • This topic was modified 8 months, 3 weeks ago by  woody.
      • This topic was modified 8 months, 3 weeks ago by  woody.
      3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #97922 Reply

      AlexN
      AskWoody Lounger

      Perhaps… there’s a one in a gajillion chance that Microsoft is taking note of customer’s dissatisfaction with W10?

      LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

      Fortran, C++, R, Python, Java, Matlab, HTML, CSS, etc.... coding is fun!
      A weatherman that can code

      • #97926 Reply

        anonymous

        Do you think Control Panel and Start Menu will be back? 😀

        • #98071 Reply

          mindwarp
          AskWoody Lounger

          Considering the real Start Menu has been gone since 7…  lol (and, yes, I know you’re joking.).  On a serious side note though, as for the Control Panel, it is still there mostly, as they haven’t yet moved what seems to me like the vast majority of options there in Settings yet.

          • This reply was modified 8 months, 3 weeks ago by  mindwarp.
    • #97923 Reply

      Pepsiboy
      AskWoody Lounger

      Perhaps… there’s a one in a gajillion chance that Microsoft is taking note of customer’s dissatisfaction with W10? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

       

      AlexN,

      ROFLMAO ! ! ! !  More likely the chances are “Absolute ZERO”, as in temperature. No molecular movement of ANY type. MS doesn’t care and probably never will.

      Dave

    • #97924 Reply

      anonymous

      @ woody

      Fyi,
      http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-prepares-to-roll-out-new-windows-update-controls/
      (dated 27 Feb 2017 by Ed Bott on Build 15042)

      • #97932 Reply

        woody
        Da Boss

        Yes, see

        https://www.askwoody.com/2017/newly-revealed-dialogs-show-how-windows-update-can-be-stalled-in-the-next-version-of-win10/

        This dialog is different – and it’s hidden inside 15046.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #98004 Reply

          b
          AskWoody Lounger

          What’s different? Wasn’t it “hidden” in 15042 (as Ed said)?

          • #98010 Reply

            woody
            Da Boss

            Ed shows two different dialogs. By splitting out the “Pause Updates” and “Choose when updates are installed” dialogs it’s not at all clear which takes precedence.

            His dialogs don’t have the checkbox for “Use my sign-in info”

            And it isn’t clear where they came from. Ed found them by digging into the beta. Mine appear if you simply slide the Pause Updates switch on and off.

            https://twitter.com/teroalhonen/status/836945563534901250

            Neither screenshots are superior. They’re both just, distressingly, different.

            • #98096 Reply

              thymej
              AskWoody Lounger

              Weird, for me flipping the pause updates to show the hidden defer and branch settings, vanish again after a few seconds (even while I was changing them). That behavior to me is more like something is broken.

              Unless of course that was what the animated gif was showing and I only thought it was the GIF looping as they do.

              I’m running 15046 in VMWare Workstation Player (free) v12.5.2-4638234.
              1vCPU
              3GB vRAM
              60GB vDisk (thin)

              I will have to check if it does the same thing with my test laptop after it updates.

              • This reply was modified 8 months, 3 weeks ago by  thymej.
              • This reply was modified 8 months, 3 weeks ago by  thymej.
              • This reply was modified 8 months, 3 weeks ago by  thymej. Reason: submitted to soon
            • #98196 Reply

              woody
              Da Boss

              Weird, for me flipping the pause updates to show the hidden defer and branch settings, vanish again after a few seconds (even while I was changing them). That behavior to me is more like something is broken.

              Exactly. What an odd way for it to be broken, eh?

    • #98075 Reply

      thymej
      AskWoody Lounger

      Is it just me or is the link to the post on Win10 Creators Update timing out for other too (The connection has timed out)?

      • #98076 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        I have no problems with it.

        • #98080 Reply

          thymej
          AskWoody Lounger

          Hmmmm…

          blogs.windows.com resolves to for me:
          Server:  google-public-dns-a.google.com
          Address:  8.8.8.8

          Non-authoritative answer:
          Name:    3vysh.x.incapdns.net
          Address:  107.154.105.106
          Aliases:  blogs.windows.com

          TraceRT fails (tracert to askwood.com and 8.8.8.8 are working), trace stops at my ISP router.

          My ISP is Frontier, not only do they not give you want you pay for speed wise, now this stuff. Never had problems when is was Verizon.

          • #98087 Reply

            thymej
            AskWoody Lounger

            It just opened up. I guess poking at it got the routes working again perhaps. Web page, ping and TraceRT all working now.

            Thanks for checking.

    • #98108 Reply

      fp
      AskWoody Lounger

      I think you are ignoring the elephant in the room and focus on the utterly insignificant.

      The key element in my book is “Windows is a service” — we all know where that is going.

      MS found a way to use the small bone to distract from the real thing.

      • #98110 Reply

        Ascaris
        AskWoody Lounger

        That’s the bit that caught my eye too.  It doesn’t matter how many times MS says it… Windows is not a service.  It’s a product.  You still go to a store and buy it, or purchase it online.  It still continues to function just fine without any updates, as it always has (though it will become less secure as time passes without them, also as it always has).  It still has a ten-year period of support starting from the initial release date.  It hasn’t suddenly changed to a service because MS has gone to a rapid-release cycle for updates!

        Linux is not a service, Firefox is not a service, and Chrome is not a service, and neither is Windows.  Of course, the first three are free, but even if you do pay for 10, you do it only one time, up front… which kinda supports my premise that it’s a product, since that’s how product purchases go too.

         

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #98116 Reply

          anonymous

          @ Ascaris

          Actually, Windows desktop OS, eg Win XP/7/8.1/10, is a PRODUCT that also comes with 10 years of free support/updating SERVICE, ie until EOL.

          After this 10 years, M$ will charge companies fees for the same support/updating service, eg the US Navy paid M$ US$3 million for Win XP support/updating service post-2014/EOL.
          Similarly, new cars usually come with at least 1 year of free basic service, eg free labor/service for engine oil change.

          Nadella’s “Windows 10 as a service” likely means M$ getting extra revenue during the 10 year free support/updating service provided, eg ads, marketing and app sales revenue, similar to Apple iOS/App Store and free Google services. That is, on top of M$ having already gotten revenue from sales of Win 10 product licenses = double-dipping.

          • #98172 Reply

            Ascaris
            AskWoody Lounger

            Yes, understood, but the part we call “Windows” is the product, not the service, just as the Toyota Camry is the big metal thing, not the warranty that goes with it.  The whole “Windows as a service” is a crock, and none of it looks good for us, the end users.  The exact implications of this going forward are hazy, and Microsoft probably isn’t certain about them either.

            What is clear, and has been clear since 10 hit the market, is that MS has wholly abandoned the idea of making money by delivering an OS people want.  It’s clear that customer satisfaction is no longer a goal; MS has HAD IT with us not buying their new versions of Windows when we’re supposed to.  It was bad enough when we didn’t embrace Vista, but then we pulled it again for Windows 8.  That was the last straw! No more Mr. Nice Microsoft… if we won’t take whatever c*** they throw at us and thank them for it, they’re going to have to get tough with us.

        • #98131 Reply

          fp
          AskWoody Lounger

          You did not catch my drift.

          What MS is doing is every time they communicate with users they will say “Windows is a service” to let it sink in that the days of local Windows are numbered, such that when WaaS comes they will say it will be less of shock and they can say “But we kept telling you”. They will ground everything they do in “Win is a service”, using it as a way to disarm anybody who questions or complains about it when they dump it on us. Just watch.

           

          1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #98118 Reply

      thymej
      AskWoody Lounger

      What versions of Win10 has 10 years of support? Is not 1507 already gone out of support?

      • #98125 Reply

        anonymous

        @ thymej

        As long as Win 10 users stay updated/upgraded, as per the EULA, irrespective of which Version they are using, their Win 10 product license will hv support/updating service from M$ until 2025/EOL = 10 years of support service.
        But if Win 10 users choose to stay not updated/upgraded, thereby breaking the EULA, M$ have all the legal right to stop support/updating service after about 20 months, ie b4 2025/EOL.

        Premium Win 10 Ent E5 LTSB users are an exception, as per the EULA, ie they do not hv to stay updated/upgraded in order to hv support/updating service from M$ until 2025/EOL.

        • #98129 Reply

          PhotM
          AskWoody Lounger

          AH! Canadian in your anonymity…. 😆

          ----------------------------------------

          1. Tower Totals: 2xSSD ~512GB, 2xHHD 4TB, Memory 32GB

          SSDs: 6xOS Partitions, 2xW8.1 Main & Test, 2x10.0 Test, Pro, x64

          CPU i7 2600 K, SandyBridge/CougarPoint, 4 cores, 8 Threads, 3.4 GHz
          Graphics Radeon 6880, Neither Over Clocked

          2xMonitors Asus DVI, Sony 55" UHD TV HDMI

          1. NUC 5i7 2cores, 4 Thread, Memory 8GB, 3.1 GHz, M2SSD 140GB
          1xOS W8.1 Pro, NAS Dependent, Same Sony above.

          -----------------

          Best Regards,

          Crysta

          • #98136 Reply

            anonymous

            @ PhotM

            What made you think so ?

            Many posters here are non-pro-M$/Win 10, similar to Canadian Tech, who loves M$/Win 7 very much. IOW, we wished Win 10 RTM Version 1507 was just like a Win 7 SP3 integrated with new or modern features, eg DirectX 12, NVMe & USB 3.0/C, etc, and optional M$ apps, eg Cortana, Edge, Hello, etc.

            1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #98176 Reply

              anonymous

              Honestly, for most users it would be sufficient if they released Start Menu for “normal” 8.1, just like they did for 8.1 RT:

              Windows 8.1 RT Start Menu

              But they won’t, for obvious reasons.

            • #98203 Reply

              anonymous
            • #98302 Reply

              fp
              AskWoody Lounger

              Why would you include Cortan, Edge, Hello and all such useless bloat escapes me. They are the core reasons I do not update my Win10 laptop beyond 1511 and won’t upgrade Win7 laptop to Win10.

            • #98430 Reply

              PhotM
              AskWoody Lounger

              hahaha 😆 Your lingo that’s all. I am Canadian too, can spot it a mile away.

              Just reread what you wrote, not the technicals. It is one of the few lingo traits I haven’t heard a Brit use, unless they have spent allot of time in Canada. 😀

              Believe me it has got nothing to do with your OS….. 😆

              ----------------------------------------

              1. Tower Totals: 2xSSD ~512GB, 2xHHD 4TB, Memory 32GB

              SSDs: 6xOS Partitions, 2xW8.1 Main & Test, 2x10.0 Test, Pro, x64

              CPU i7 2600 K, SandyBridge/CougarPoint, 4 cores, 8 Threads, 3.4 GHz
              Graphics Radeon 6880, Neither Over Clocked

              2xMonitors Asus DVI, Sony 55" UHD TV HDMI

              1. NUC 5i7 2cores, 4 Thread, Memory 8GB, 3.1 GHz, M2SSD 140GB
              1xOS W8.1 Pro, NAS Dependent, Same Sony above.

              -----------------

              Best Regards,

              Crysta

    • #98127 Reply

      abbodi86
      AskWoody MVP

      Quality updates = all updates for the current OS version, inclusing cumlative/flash/servicing stack/.NET/Drivers …

      Not sure about MSRT as i don’t use that c***

       

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #98208 Reply

        Noel Carboni
        AskWoody MVP

        Not sure about MSRT as i don’t use that c***

        Did you have a bad experience with it or is it that you just don’t bother?

        I’m just curious.

        -Noel

        • #98223 Reply

          abbodi86
          AskWoody MVP

          I don’t bother 🙂

          i only installed AV twice in XP era, never after that, and Defender is always disabled

          • #98273 Reply

            Noel Carboni
            AskWoody MVP

            Thanks, I was just wondering. I haven’t had malware get near my systems either, but I’ve never seen much harm in letting Microsoft’s Malicious Software Removal Tool just run. It’s never detected any false positives. Long ago I ripped the throat out of their communications to spynet, so I have no privacy concerns.

            -Noel

            • #98304 Reply

              fp
              AskWoody Lounger

              Don’t use MSRT, only MSSECESS and I am considering disabling that too. I tried all sorts of other firewalls and AVs and every one had some problems. Then there is the evidence that they are not just useless and resource hoags, but even dangerous themselves.

            • #98425 Reply

              anonymous
            • #99103 Reply

              Noel Carboni
              AskWoody MVP

              Thanks, but I have had no MRT heartbeat here in years. Result: The benefit of a look around for malware, and no privacy lost.

              —————————————————————————————
              Microsoft Windows Malicious Software Removal Tool v5.42, November 2016 (build 5.42.13202.0)
              Started On Fri Nov 11 13:29:10 2016

              Engine: 1.1.13202.0
              Signatures: 1.231.682.0
              Run Mode: Scan Run From Windows Update

              Results Summary:
              —————-
              No infection found.
              Microsoft Windows Malicious Software Removal Tool Finished On Fri Nov 11 13:31:49 2016

              Return code: 0 (0x0)

              —————————————————————————————
              Microsoft Windows Malicious Software Removal Tool v5.44, January 2017 (build 5.44.13400.0)
              Started On Fri Jan 13 01:18:49 2017

              Engine: 1.1.13303.0
              Signatures: 1.233.3409.0
              Run Mode: Scan Run From Windows Update

              Results Summary:
              —————-
              No infection found.
              Microsoft Windows Malicious Software Removal Tool Finished On Fri Jan 13 01:20:07 2017

              Return code: 0 (0x0)

              —————————————————————————————
              Microsoft Windows Malicious Software Removal Tool v5.45, February 2017 (build 5.45.13501.0)
              Started On Thu Mar 02 13:23:42 2017

              Engine: 1.1.13407.0
              Signatures: 1.235.1858.0
              Run Mode: Scan Run From Windows Update

              Results Summary:
              —————-
              No infection found.
              Microsoft Windows Malicious Software Removal Tool Finished On Thu Mar 02 13:24:58 2017

              Return code: 0 (0x0)
              —————————————————————————————

              -Noel

    • #98140 Reply

      anonymous

      Seems, the gradual backing-down by M$ to offer better update options to Win 10 users as per above, is related to https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/no-significant-change-in-february-usage-numbers-for-win10-or-edge/ , ie M$ trying to attract more users to Win 10 and push up the monthly adoption numbers.

      • #98256 Reply

        Ascaris
        AskWoody Lounger

        It seems to me that Microsoft is viewing their Windows 10 strategy like a negotiation.  You don’t lead with your best offer… you lead with an offer that gives you everything and your opponent nothing, then work your way back from there.

        By leading with “we take full control of updates; We decide what patches will be installed on your PC, when they will be installed, and when your PC will restart afterwards,” MS has plenty of room to negotiate. It makes their subsequent offers look more reasonable, even though those “reasonable” new policies would still have been rejected outright by many/most Windows users if those policies were in place when 10 was first introduced.  Even the “compromise” position on updates still gives MS far more control than they ever had in any previous version of Windows.  They only seem reasonable if one has accepted the new “MS controls everything” paradigm as the status quo– which MS has given us a year and a half to do.

        MS has to be panicking about the slow adoption rate of Windows 10.  They knew 10 was not the OS we expected when they told us it was going to fix what was wrong with 8.  They knew that the unprecedented level of control it gave MS was not going to be appreciated by many.  They simply overestimated their own ability to cram it down our throats sideways, I think.  Most of us regular Windows users out here in the real would could have advised MS that this was not going to go well for them, but this is the same company that gave us Windows 8, with no start button, nutty hot corners, “charms,” a crazy split personality UI that hides the desktop when you’re in Metro, etc., and thought people were actually going to voluntarily upgrade to it in large enough numbers to make the Windows Store a thing.

        MS now has some decisions to make.  How much do they capitulate to the critics of 10?  They know that they still have the power of monopoly on their side.  When their obligations to support 7 and 8.1 end, people will have no choice if they wish to remain in the Windows neighborhood.

        On the other side, there’s the fact that 8.1 won’t sunset for another six years, and that’s far too long to wait if users don’t get on board long before then.  If we actually do wait, 10 may be such a failure by then that they don’t have a monopoly anymore, or at least not enough of one to be able to force their customers to accept garbage.

        In 2001 or 2002, Internet Explorer peaked with 95% of the browser market.  Six years later, it still held a big majority, with about 80% of the market, but the trend for IE market share was strongly downward, while Firefox was gaining almost as rapidly.  The cat was out of the bag by then; even if most people still used IE, they knew that they had viable alternatives.  I would say at that point the monopoly was broken, even though MS still had by far the lion’s share of the market.  Having a real competitor meant MS didn’t have the power to dictate arbitrary terms to whomever they wished anymore.

        Similarly, Windows doesn’t have to slip from its market majority position for MS to lose its monopoly power.  All that needs to happen is for one of the alternatives to be recognized as a reasonable choice… and with 10 being as bad as it is, the field is ripe for harvest.  A lot can happen in six years, and Google is gunning for them.

        In many ways, Microsoft’s ridiculously hard push to get people to upgrade to 10 was a do or die supposition.  If they didn’t get a critical mass on board, the sheer numbers of people they alienated would become a huge problem for them, and that has indeed happened.  Those of us that remain non-10ed have dug in our heels; we are going to be far harder to win over now than we would have been in the beginning if MS had just given us a decent product.

        This even affects enterprise customers, as PHBs (pointy-haired bosses) are not immune to public opinion that is skeptical or downright hostile to 10, and the conspicuous failure of MS to build a majority even while giving their product away for an entire year doesn’t make it seem like Microsoft is on top of their game as they were in the days when they tried to give the customers what they wanted instead of what Microsoft wanted them to have.

        In my case, I’m set until 2023… Win 7 is fine for half of that, and Windows 8.1, properly modified, is a very usable product without the huge negatives of 10, and that will take me the rest of the way.  MS is going to have to make a version of 10 not just better than what they’ve offered so far, but also better than what I already have to get me to switch, and that’s going to be hard to do, as 7 is quite good.  The ability to control telemetry and updates are far more important features than Cortana, Hello, inking, or any of the other stuff they’re trying to sell.  The stability of a product in extended support is far more attractive than the rapid-fire release of features I don’t want anyway.

        As you can see, MS has its work cut out for it, if I am in any way representative of Win 10 holdouts (and I think I am).  We don’t have to act quickly; we can see this train coming miles and miles in advance.  We can plan… and if 10 is too bitter a pill to swallow, we can plan for Linux or MacOS.  Six years is far too long to wait to get everyone on board, and MS certainly knows this.  They’re going to need to put a far better offer on the table.

        • This reply was modified 8 months, 3 weeks ago by  Ascaris. Reason: typo
        5 users thanked author for this post.
        • #98269 Reply

          Noel Carboni
          AskWoody MVP

          Exactly.

          It makes their subsequent offers look more reasonable, even though those “reasonable” new policies would still have been rejected outright by many/most Windows users if those policies were in place when 10 was first introduced.

          I for one still don’t accept them, and am going to be waiting for an offer even better than Win 7 or 8.1 (which don’t just roll over and die the day after Microsoft “support” ends, by the way).

          -Noel

          • This reply was modified 8 months, 3 weeks ago by  Noel Carboni.
          • #98306 Reply

            fp
            AskWoody Lounger

            Me too, but we may be waiting in vain. The vast majority will at some point migrate without MS making too many concessions. This requires collective action which is inherently problematic:

            Mancur Olson: THE LOGIC OF COLLECTIVE ACTION

            Highly recommended to open your eyes.

            • #98387 Reply

              Noel Carboni
              AskWoody MVP

              One can only do one’s own part.

              I have no desire to control what others do, except that – as you say – it ultimately means that the masses will drive Windows into something I don’t want. I think the spirit of competitiveness might cause some other, different, good things to happen.

              It’s too bad the genius of Dave Cutler doesn’t come along too often.

              -Noel

            • #98593 Reply

              fp
              AskWoody Lounger

              Unfortunately, that’s precisely the issue inherent in problems that require collective solutions: individual action is not enough and this is counted on by those who want to prevent collective action.

              I really don’t see what MS could now do to Win10 to make me wanna use it. They have added useless bloat that it uses for spying that I will never allow on my computers and NOTHING that I can use. As long as these components cannot be eliminated, I don’t want anything to do with it.

              At some point when my Win7 laptop dies, I will be left with 1511 which I cleaned of Cortana, Edge and apps. As long as I can keep it off upgrades, I’ll be OK. I hope that, given my age, it will take me to the end of my days.

               

               

        • #98380 Reply

          anonymous

          I’m afraid that if people will be so reluctant to move from 7 to 8.1, it will be completely dead by 2020 :(.

          • #98498 Reply

            Ascaris
            AskWoody Lounger

            Windows 8.1 can’t be completely dead, at least not in terms of providing an alternative to Windows 10.  It’s already there; it exists, and MS is obligated to support it until 2023.  MS is not issuing any more licenses for it, but there are plenty of them already in the secondary market.

            • #98499 Reply

              anonymous

              I’m not so much worried about MS support, but rather 3rd party (drivers etc.).

            • #99106 Reply

              Noel Carboni
              AskWoody MVP

              That’s a good point.

              In 2013 I bought a Really Great Computer, then a 2 year old Dell workstation retrofitted with top-of-the-line parts, and I expected it would serve my needs for 5 years. At 4 years it still doesn’t disappoint and my plan is still on track.

              If I buy another Really Great Computer, say in 2018 or 2019, I’m certainly going to need the OS to support hardware newer than that which I currently have. I tend to buy off-cutting-edge workstations, and so the machine I’ll want to get in 2 years is most likely a design being produced now that still has the capability of running Windows 7 (so quite likely 8.1).

              Notably, however, Dell does NOT specify direct Windows 8.1 compatibility in their current systems. Just 7 and 10. So the worry is indeed founded.

              DellPrecisionT7910

              -Noel

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              1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #99120 Reply

              radosuaf
              AskWoody Lounger

              Yup, that’s why I encourage people that don’t want Windows 10 to switch to W8.1 – the sooner, the better, because in 2020 it might be already too late. I did 2 weeks ago :).

              MSI H110 PC MATE * Intel Core i5-6402P * 2 x 8 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2133 MHz * Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1050 Ti D5 4G * Samsung 840 EVO 250GB SSD * Western Digital Blue 1TB HDD * Seagate Barracuda 1TB HDD * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer PCI * Windows 8.1 Pro 64-bit + Windows 10 Mobile 1703 (Lumia 735)
              • This reply was modified 8 months, 2 weeks ago by  radosuaf.
        • #98522 Reply

          Elly
          AskWoody Lounger

          Suppose Microsoft does come up with a “better” Windows 10 that allows me to control all telemetry (essential) and updates…

          I still have to get over their unethical behavior. It wasn’t a mistake; they intentionally decided to force Win 10 onto their previously happy customer’s computers. It is one thing to forgive a mistake. It is another to give bad guys (people who think unethical behavior is okay unless caught) access into my home, my computer.

          Maybe if they clean out the top management, publicly apologize, provide fixes for anyone who was upgraded and didn’t wind it back within 30 days and can’t find their OEM key, and start over… precise, step by step supports for those non-techies caught in their marketing fraud… In fact, free tech support for anyone unhappy with their “upgrade”… They need to honorably fix what they’ve done. Somebody in the corporation must be decent and objected to the malware that is Win 10. High standards, but the right ones, from a basic honesty standard. Otherwise, I’m done playing with any Microsoft product, ever… even if it is the best thing since (name your best thing choice), or isn’t easy… and I’m not a techie, just a grandma trying to keep up with the young ones…

          Elly-

          Win 7 Home, Group B

          2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #98345 Reply

      anonymous

      Several people on this thread made the same point I did, and yet my post was nuked. Thanks for nothing, Woody.

      • #98360 Reply

        woody
        Da Boss

        Thanks for nothing, Woody.

        There have been several posts to this Topic that got nuked. I’m not sure which one(s) came from you – and as long as you post anonymously, I have no way of telling.

        That’s as it should be, yes?

        Tell me what you posted – either here, or by email, woody@askwoody.com – and I’ll see what happened.

        UPDATE: Please see this https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/a-note-on-anonymous-posters/

    • #98364 Reply

      cmar6
      AskWoody Lounger

      Woody,

      I could not find your links to download Win 7 updates for Group B.

    • #98373 Reply

      cmar6
      AskWoody Lounger

      Thanks, Woody.

    • #98375 Reply

      cmar6
      AskWoody Lounger

      How does one unsubsribe from a topic?

      • #98378 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        At the top of the topic (way up there) there should be a “favorites” and an “unsubscribe” link (if you are subscribed or “subscribe” if you are not”). Click on “Unsubscribe”

    • #98396 Reply

      lizzytish
      AskWoody Lounger

      Well it’s a welcome change to see some replies to your questions Woody from MS.   I wonder whether they would be able to define their meaning of “Windows as a Service” as they so succinctly included in their answers to you.    To me it’s a mystery ……….. so many possibilities… and that is the stumbling block for most……conjuring up all sorts of things!  LT

      Velcro…… what a rip off!

       

      • #98409 Reply

        woody
        Da Boss

        HA!

        I was amazed and impressed by the response. In my almost-30 years of dealing with Wag-Ed, I’ve rarely encountered anything like it.

    • #98428 Reply

      anonymous

      This update model seems mind-boggling – Branches, deferral, pause, active hours, ‘Schedule the Restart’, feature/quality updates, Group Policies, no update or EOL in about 20 months, etc.!!!
      Luckily I’m not using Win 10.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #98589 Reply

        fp
        AskWoody Lounger

        That’s because MS started the W10 process without a real clue about the implications. Given their behavior, I don’t think there is ANY adult there who is capable of any thought out strategy–as a monopolist they never needed to be real careful about causing messes. Now they do and dk how, after they let anybody with a brain go.

    • #98620 Reply

      anonymous

      Woody,

      I am a Win7 user, intend to remain as such until EOL or end of my PC’s life, whichever comes first.
      However, I am curious as to the usefulness of delaying updates for Win10.
      From what I have read, it does not seem one, while delaying, is any more able to select which updates to install that as it was without being able to delay. Once the delay period is over, absolutely everything MS wants users to have rolls in and gets installed. Until it does, the user cannot get any future updates unless he first takes in all of the present ones.
      Is this right?

      P.S.: I could not get text into the “Your Information” box, so, if this is what you need:

      <edited>

      Also, I would appreciate getting, if possible, just your answer, rather than all the postings.

      • This reply was modified 8 months, 2 weeks ago by  PKCano.
      • This reply was modified 8 months, 2 weeks ago by  Kirsty. Reason: Removed contact details
      • #98630 Reply

        fp
        AskWoody Lounger

        Exactly right. Users will no longer have control, except for how long they can delay. They only give you the convenience of not disturbing your work with the updates.

      • #98640 Reply

        Kirsty
        AskWoody MVP

        I could not get text into the “Your Information” box

        Hi Oscar anon,
        The “Your Information” box can’t be filled, and it’s confusing, sorry. It’s not something we have control over.
        Anonymous posts do not need to provide details to post, but their posts get moderated. You may like to consider creating an account, which only needs your email address – then you don’t need moderation except initially, and get the option to vote on posts, say thanks, etc.
        After a concerned reader alerted us, the personal details have been removed from your post.

        As to receiving email replies, that is for the topic, not a specific post. Another limitation we cannot control.
        🙂

      • #98652 Reply

        woody
        Da Boss

        Yes, that’s correct.

        It’s also correct, now, with both Windows 7 and 8.1.

        Microsoft has individual patches for IE 11 in Win7 and 8.1. Other than that, you get the whole lot – or none.

    • #98679 Reply

      anonymous

      Hi, This is “Oscar Anon”, who, as already noted, for some reason cannot get his actual name in the “Your Info” section of this message.
      I have corresponded privately on this with Woody, and he has kindly asked me to include the following comment (more or less):

      First, Woody replied to me here that the same problem with updates affects Win7 and 8.1
      I wouldn’t know about 8.1, but I do have Win7, and here is the thing:
      I don’t have a special deal with MS, work at home on my own PC running Win7 Professional and, even so, am still getting lists of individual “security” and “important” updates on every Patch Tuesday, much as before October of last year — updates I can still choose to install or not in the usual way — plus those bundled in the “rollouts”, which I just ignore.
      If I find out that there are updates that I need to install but were not in that Patch Tuesday list, I download them from MS and install them by hand.
      I do need a stable OS, because I work on developing techniques for precise GPS positioning and orbit determination for NASA and others, and need to do quite a bit of software development, as there is none commercially available for most of the projects I am involved with. And having spent countless hours already figuring out how to deal with the many quirks and bugs in Win7, I don’t want to start all over again on a different OS without a real need. Particularly with an OS that someone else can change at any time, just because of “Why Not?”.

      Oscar

      • #98785 Reply

        woody
        Da Boss

        Hi again, Oscar anon!

        (You should sign up for an account – all it takes is an email address, and it makes keeping track of your posts much easier for you and everybody else.)

        Sounds to me like you’re best off with Windows 7 “Group A.” You can find detailed instructions for patching “Group A” every month. This month, it’s here:

        https://www.askwoody.com/2017/reminder-how-to-get-win7-8-1-and-win10-patched/

        There are a few steps you need to take, to make sure you get the right patches. But it’s pretty easy, as long as you don’t check any boxes willy-nilly. Details in that post and the linked InfoWorld article.

    Please follow the -Lounge Rules- no personal attacks, no swearing, and politics/religion are relegated to the Rants forum.

    Reply To: Hidden update throttling screen in new Win10 Creators Update beta build 15046

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