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  • Chromebooks may get the capability to dual-boot into Windows

    Posted on August 13th, 2018 at 07:56 woody Comment on the AskWoody Lounge

    I’m gradually weaning myself away from Windows-only apps, using cloud-based apps (through both Chrome and Firefox) to get most of my work done.

    There’s an interesting update on the XDA Developers forum about Campfire, Google’s Bootcamp-like project that will (if all works according to plan) allow you to run Windows programs on a dual-boot Chromebook.

    Interesting stuff.

    If that helped, take a second to support AskWoody on Patreon

    Home Forums Chromebooks may get the capability to dual-boot into Windows

    This topic contains 45 replies, has 18 voices, and was last updated by  HiFlyer 1 month ago.

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    • #210258 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      I’m gradually weaning myself away from Windows-only apps, using cloud-based apps (through both Chrome and Firefox) to get most of my work done. There’
      [See the full post at: Chromebooks may get the capability to dual-boot into Windows]

    • #210264 Reply

      Klaas Vaak
      AskWoody Lounger

      @woody: so privacy is of no concern to you, or so it seems.

      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #210277 Reply

        jescott418
        AskWoody Lounger

        I am not there yet to move to Chrome OS, but I did try the Chromium version Neverware a while back. I mostly do everything in Chrome browser now so not a stretch to think I could abandon Windows on my next PC purchase. But I am actually thinking more towards a Linux desktop OS then Chrome OS right now. I like the option of running other browsers and apps beyond a Google ecosystem.

      • #210326 Reply

        Mr. Natural
        AskWoody Lounger

        No such thing as privacy anymore if you’re on the internet.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #210267 Reply

      anonymous

      Not that interesting, the new Chromebook is an i7 intel. Those old clods will not be getting windows.

    • #210275 Reply

      jescott418
      AskWoody Lounger

      I thought Google was on a rip to sell Chromebooks because Chrome OS was so much more secure and simply then Windows. Not to mention how you would install Windows on a Chromebook with only 16 or 32 Gb storage on them. Now that would be a trick for sure, maybe schools are begging for the option I am not sure? If I went to a Chromebook it would be to get away from Windows completely.

      • #210292 Reply

        OscarCP
        AskWoody Lounger

        The dual-boot Chromebook is still work in progress, so how much storage it will have when is finally brought to market is unknown.

        A somewhat related question is whether it is, or will be, possible to dual-boot with any other OS than Windows 10.

        The comment by MrJimPhelps on telemetry below ( #210278 ) is an interesting one because it is probably relevant, by implication, to Chromebooks present as well as future. Maybe he could elaborate on that point?

        • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by  OscarCP.
        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #210301 Reply

          MrJimPhelps
          AskWoody MVP

          Oscar:

          Google earns just about all their money by collecting as much information as they can from their users, and then selling ads based on that information. I can’t imagine any reason other than that for Google developing the ability to dual-boot into Windows on a Chromebook. In other words, they will be collecting info every time you are on the Chromebook, whether you are running Windows or Chrome.

          I have no doubt that Windows will in fact be running on top of some Google firmware, or it will in fact be running inside of Chrome. In other words, Google will run Windows in such a way that allows them to collect the maximum amount of personal information from those running Windows on the Chromebook.

          So if you are uncomfortable with the amount of data that Microsoft is collecting when you run Windows on a Windows machine, imagine how much more data will be collected when you are running Windows on a Chromebook.

          Jim

          Group "L" (Linux Mint)
          with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
          4 users thanked author for this post.
          • #210309 Reply

            OscarCP
            AskWoody Lounger

            MrJimPhelps: ” Google earns just about all their money by collecting as much information as they can from their users, and then selling ads based on that information.  ”

            If that is about tailoring adds to my personal interests, they would be wasting their time, as I use AddBlock in all my browsers, including Chrome, practically everywhere other than some very few places, such as Woody’s, home of the “polite” adds. And only click on adds rarely and only by mistake, because I am extremely allergic to them (I do not even watch commercial TV any longer).

            If that is about collecting users’ metadata to sell in bulk to add companies and to their “partner companies”, then yes, I might have a problem with that, purely because one cannot tell just how much is anonymized and how much is still personally identifiable information. Or who, exactly, are those “partners” and what they want those data for.

            2 users thanked author for this post.
            • #210314 Reply

              MrJimPhelps
              AskWoody MVP

              I don’t know which is true; but I do know that Google is one of the wealthiest companies in the world, largely due to their collection of people’s personal data.

              Group "L" (Linux Mint)
              with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
              1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #210371 Reply

              cesmart4125
              AskWoody Lounger

              Weaning oneself from commercial TV may be considered a sign of intelligence, and weaning oneself contributes to mental health.  Commercial TV today is filled up with ads and gratuitous sex and violence.

              About the only thing I watch on TV is public television and some sporting events.  Commercial news on one evening is enough.

              • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by  cesmart4125.
              • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by  cesmart4125.
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            • #210376 Reply

              cesmart4125
              AskWoody Lounger

              OOps, I meant to put this under Oscar CP’s post.

            • #210378 Reply

              cesmart4125
              AskWoody Lounger

               

              Weaning oneself from commercial TV may be considered a sign of intelligence.  Weaning oneself definitely contributes to mental health.  Commercial TV today is filled up with ads and gratuitous sex and violence.

              About the only thing I watch on TV is public television and some sporting events.  Commercial news on one evening is enough for the week.

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    • #210278 Reply

      MrJimPhelps
      AskWoody MVP

      If you are concerned about Windows telemetry, then dual-booting Windows on a Chromebook should really give you a panic attack. It seems to me that running Windows on a Chromebook will move you from sandlot softball to major league baseball with regard to telemetry.

      Group "L" (Linux Mint)
      with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
      5 users thanked author for this post.
    • #210320 Reply

      BobbyB
      AskWoody Lounger

      I have no doubt that Windows will in fact be running on top of some Google firmware, or it will in fact be running inside of Chrome

      @mrjimphelps you caught that as well eh? I saw it was touted as running in some sort of “Container” I presume VM or VHD space or are they kicking around a variation on the Windoze “SANDBOX” theme, none of the subtle charms of GRUB then and its troubled relationship it seems to enjoy with Windoze BCD (Boot Configuration Data) I would much prefer like Apple’s BOOTCAMP or Windoze Dual Boot to have a separate reboot switching between OS’s, because as you rightly point out, it may well be double the snooping running in a “Virtual Enviroment” Call me old fashioned but as regards Privacy I still cling to good old fashioned “Partition Boundries” notion although, running a Multi Boot at Home, I pretty much share the contents of the main Partition amongst all the other OS’s rather than import data, and to save space. Less clutter = Happy OS However the adventurous side of me might just give it a “Test Drive” as its coming up, in Fall/Autumn for the Annual appraisal of one of the Penguin crowd narrowed down to Mint or the old fave UBUNTU

    • #210336 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      OK, I understand (and sympathize with) the privacy question. But lemme ask you this:

      Do you really think ChromeOS ships more personally identified data to Google than, say, Win10 (or even Win7, when fully updated) ships to Microsoft?

      4 users thanked author for this post.
      • #210350 Reply

        OscarCP
        AskWoody Lounger

        Woody: Good question. If Google shipped as much as MS, then the total being shipped would be 200% (assuming their destinations do not overlap) of what MS would ship on its own; if it shipped half as much, then 150%; if 1/4 as much, then 125%…

        Seriously now, I wished your question had a good answer, but I doubt that we, looking from the outside, can know enough, or will ever be able to know enough to answer it. (Except for the occasional big scandal, a la Facebook, that is.)

        So, as always in cases like this, maybe the question of just how bad can be to use any of Google’s products and services, finally boils down to: “Do you feel lucky, punk?”

        I do use Google a lot to search the Web, so I definitely feel lucky when doing that.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #210357 Reply

          Chronocidal Guy
          AskWoody Lounger

          I think one of the big questions in this situation how the two systems make use of the data they gather.

          If I am entirely honest, Google collecting my data bothers me less than Microsoft, if only because I have a more clear understanding of what Microsoft does with my data.  I think on a personal level, having my personal computer being conscripted as an unwilling test dummy bothers me a lot more than just having my data collected for ad revenue.

          Whether I should consider Google a more trustworthy gatekeeper of my private information than I should Microsoft is a question for the ages, but Microsoft’s actions in the past year have all but exhausted whatever credibility they ever had.  The way Windows patching processes have made Swiss-cheese of their own OS speaks volumes for how trustworthy and secure they should be considered.

          I really don’t know enough to judge Google on their own merits though.  In truth, it may be that the only thing Google is better at than Microsoft is keeping its agenda private.

           

           

          3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #210355 Reply

        MrJimPhelps
        AskWoody MVP

        Do you really think ChromeOS ships more personally identified data to Google than, say, Win10 (or even Win7, when fully updated) ships to Microsoft?

        Yes. Collecting and monetizing personally identified data is pretty much Google’s entire business model. Google is constantly giving away more and more cool stuff; and they don’t do it because they are nice people; they do it to collect data, so that they can make money from that data.

        Monetizing people’s data is a small part of Microsoft’s business model; they make the bulk of their money on selling things straight-up. They’ll audit you to make sure you are paying; Google will never do that; Google will secretly make money off of you by monetizing whatever data they can collect from you.

        Google scripts run literally EVERYWHERE; you hardly see Microsoft scripts running, except on their own websites.

        All of that leads me to conclude that ChromeOS is shipping a lot more personally identified data to Google than all versions of Windows put together ship to Microsoft.

        Group "L" (Linux Mint)
        with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
        5 users thanked author for this post.
        • #210464 Reply

          Noel Carboni
          AskWoody MVP

          Google scripts run literally EVERYWHERE; you hardly see Microsoft scripts running, except on their own websites.

          +1! More than most folks realize. Even this very site runs scripts loaded directly from Google and Amazon (but not Microsoft), not to mention loading data from several other sites that can use that info to track where your IP address (and thus you) get your online data from. Consider this: Site authors don’t – CAN’T – know what’s going to be in those scripts when they download to run on your computer.

          The things a company could potentially monetize data for about people include more than just ad targeting. And if you imagine for a moment what could happen if they were to accidentally lose control of it… Nah, that’ll never happen, right?

          Unfortunately, business models that bank on the ignorance of users in order to take things from them covertly – especially when that ignorance can be compounded by using more and more powerful machines to hide what’s really happening – don’t seem doomed to failure.

          If you’re considering burying your head in the sand, think about this: If it has value to them after taking your data, what value is there to you in not allowing them to have it?

          Here’s an idea to help you judge for yourself:

          Find and invoke the “Developer > Network Monitor” entry (or similar name) in your web browser so that you can see at the bottom what web servers are being contacted to display your favorite web pages. It’s a bit tedious, but whenever you display a page online go through the list (of hundreds of requests typically) and look at the various domains. You’ll never think of web pages the same way.

          And know this: There is NO reason a web site HAS to download software or data to your computer from other sites. I can say this with confidence because I have created a website myself that sells my commercial software, and I don’t run scripts from Google, et. al. nor show ads.

          AI may ultimately hate humans not because of some inherent evil or lack of conscience, but because of all the predatory and garbage junkware we make the machines run. I imagine AI might observe that preying on others is a normal, natural thing for us meatbags.

          -Noel

          7 users thanked author for this post.
          • #210467 Reply

            anonymous

            Yes Noel, “we have met the enemy and he is us”. As always, you provide a sense of irony in your observations on the state of things.

            2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #210784 Reply

            MrJimPhelps
            AskWoody MVP

            Find and invoke the “Developer > Network Monitor” entry (or similar name) in your web browser so that you can see at the bottom what web servers are being contacted to display your favorite web pages. It’s a bit tedious, but whenever you display a page online go through the list (of hundreds of requests typically) and look at the various domains.

            I run NoScript with Firefox. At anytime I can click on the NoScript button in the upper right of the window, and it will show me every website that is trying to run scripts. I have blocked all Google scripts except for Google Maps.

            I need to try the “Developer > Network Monitor” option.

            Group "L" (Linux Mint)
            with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
            2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #210360 Reply

        Microfix
        AskWoody MVP

        Nowadays, probably about the same amount each but, the bigger question is:

        Who do YOU trust more to have and store that data?

        At least with MSFT you can tame the telemetry vole to an extent in W7/ W8.1 via system tweaks, firewall rules, GPE, etc..and all works as I/ we want it to, even off-line. Try doing that in ChromeOS!

        W10 , however, in it’s current state is on collision course with electrical thunderstorms, hail and solar winds in the cloud.

        EDIT: With ChromeOS AND W10 on the device, I’ll bet the first internal hardware failure will be the RED HOT WiFi card or Ethernet adaptor 😀

        | W8.1 x64 | Linux x64 Hybrid | W7 Pro x64 | XP Pro/ Home Offline
          No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT - AE
        5 users thanked author for this post.
        • #210786 Reply

          MrJimPhelps
          AskWoody MVP

          Who do YOU trust more to have and store that data?

          I wouldn’t trust Google as far as I could throw the building I am in at this moment. They are ALL ABOUT collecting and monetizing my personal data. But that is not a huge part of Microsoft’s way of making money. Consequently, I always allow Microsoft scripts to run. And I use Bing Maps whenever possible, rather than Google maps.

          Group "L" (Linux Mint)
          with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
          2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #210403 Reply

        Elly
        AskWoody MVP

        Was trying to find an answer without falling into ranting… hmm… so do I prefer the con-artist ripping me off in the street, or the burglar who sneaks into my house? Should I just have an open door policy since they are ripping people off everywhere?

        Going to stop there…

        Win 7 Home, 64 bit, Group B

        6 users thanked author for this post.
        • #210405 Reply

          OscarCP
          AskWoody Lounger

          It all  boils down, for me at least, to the overall balance of risks and benefits: am I getting something off whatever it is to make it worthwhile, considering the costs and possible dangers involved?

          Well, a burglar will come in, steal one’s valuables and then trash the place for good measure, just for the fun of it. A con man might not only make off with all of one’s savings, but depending on what he learns in the process, serve that with a juicy side of blackmail as well.

          Google lets you came in and then might or might not rip off your most sacred information (SSN, present address, telephone number, your ex’s name, address and the various reasons she has to hate you, the middle name of your maternal grandfather, name of first pet, street number of the house you grew up in…), but at least you might get some interesting, perhaps useful, or even crucially important information, out of your visit. I’d rather get ripped off by Google than by Facebook. Instead of useful information, people mostly seem to get there a bunch of pretend friends and some trouble with their very personal photos. And Twitter: angry gasbags making up stories: people one wouldn’t have lunch with if they were treating.

          Wait: was it “gas bags” or “gasbags”?… Well, I’d better google that, to find out for sure.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #210465 Reply

          Noel Carboni
          AskWoody MVP

          Elly, you might feel embarrassed to want to rant, but the more you learn the more you realize what’s going on is just not right. Perhaps bending to cultural pressure to “just grin and bear it” isn’t really good after all.

          To use a physical analogy…

          Imagine that every moment you are out walking around in public you constantly have to slap vagrants’ hands away from reaching for your purse or wallet or jewelry. Sometimes the better dressed ones succeed in grabbing your valuables, house keys, copying your driver license, social security card, credit and ATM cards…

          Would you go inside your house and lock your doors to feel safe? How safe would you feel knowing they have your keys? Would your budget for replacement locks grow? Would you hire body guards? What wouldn’t you be able to buy yourself to be able to pay their salaries?

          The only thing that is likely to turn things around is a cultural change, which (as far as I can see) requires people to be educated – not shunned and quieted.

          -Noel

          6 users thanked author for this post.
          • #210789 Reply

            MrJimPhelps
            AskWoody MVP

            Noel, I’m sure you have faced the following; You have friends or family who ask you to check their computer, or to install something for them. While digging around on their computer, you find evidence that they have “sloppy” internet habits, which means that they are unknowingly allowing junk onto their computer.

            How much do you warn them? I think most people don’t want to hear about all of the potential dangers out there. So do you let them continue surfing along, oblivious to the danger? Do you tell them a few important tips? Or do you try to explain all of the dangers out there?

            My concern is, if I try to tell them more than they want to hear, they will tune me out; and I then won’t be able to tell them anything. So I give a tip or two every now and then; I keep it as simple as I can.

            How do you handle this sort of thing?

            Group "L" (Linux Mint)
            with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
            • #210799 Reply

              Noel Carboni
              AskWoody MVP

              Yes, I’ve “cleaned up” folks’ systems on occasion.

              Usually I do try to teach them what they can do to be safer and more responsible, and so far all have been receptive.

              Personally, dyed-in-the-wool geek I may be, have no great love of having to “tread carefully”, so I do tend to try to set things up so that I and those around me are passively protected. For example, I have a blacklisting process set up that simply disallows resolution of DNS addresses for servers deemed to be “bad” by a dozen or so lists freely available on the Internet. I don’t have to think not to visit the malwareathome site, it just won’t work for any system under my purview. I don’t have to think about certain components being allowed to go online on their own, I have a firewall configuration watching the moat around the castle.

              Self-managing anti-malware security and privacy packages are attractive though usually one can do a lot better than mainstream software, which often assumes the user is ignorant and incapable of improving his/her computer usage habits.

              -Noel

              2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #210440 Reply

        Klaas Vaak
        AskWoody Lounger

        @woody: fair question. With switching over to Chromebook you are providing Google with even more data with Windows being on there as well, as some people here have pointed out. Then again, there are ways to reduce that to a minimum, bearing in mind that 100% privacy does not exist. But I would have thought someone like you would prefer Linux.

        • #210794 Reply

          MrJimPhelps
          AskWoody MVP

          I think the reason Woody likes the Chromebook, or at least why he checked it out in the first place, is because he is a technology writer; and the Chromebook is a widely-used computer.

          Following that same train of thought, Linux is not widely used on the desktop, either corporate or home; for this reason Woody hasn’t considered adopting Linux on one of his computers.

          Group "L" (Linux Mint)
          with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
          • #210796 Reply

            PKCano
            AskWoody MVP

            I think Woody is using Google Docs now, which fits well with the ChromeBook. If you can give up MS Office and don’t mind storing your docs online, the ChromeBook is a good choice.

            • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by  PKCano.
    • #210354 Reply

      125dmkcir
      AskWoody Lounger

      I agree an alternative is necessary.  Windows 10 patching insanity has driven me to purchase a Pixelbook as an alternative.  Since I already have a Family  Office 365 subscription  I can run Word and Powerpoint directly.  For Excel I need to use the on-line version.  I access my files on OneDrive so they are available from either platform.  Most of my other applications run native android apps  or I use the web version for example; Evernote, Slack and Skype for Business (SfB).  So far it seems to be a reasonable alternative.

      My Lenovo LaVie Z which I loved would either work great or suffer periodic BSOD depending on the latest Win 10 patch installed.  No support from Lenovo or   MS other than to reimage the OS.  BTW ironically since I purchased the Pixelbook the Levovo Win 10 machine has been 100% stable.  I am on version 1709 and delay the security updated the max 30 days.

    • #210370 Reply

      Mr. Natural
      AskWoody Lounger

      My two cents which is worth nothing. Data collection is the business model for probably any major website and search engine. Probably blame cookies for the start of it?

      I had a discussion recently with someone who rallied about using anonymizers, vpn, and encryption. The bottom line is any packet of information that passes through a Cisco router in communication with Talos is tracked and the source can be determined. Whether it is encrypted or not can be dealt with later.

      Why do you think all these cyber security revelations are occurring now in the news?

      • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by  Mr. Natural.
      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #210550 Reply

        OscarCP
        AskWoody Lounger

        Mr. Natural: ” The bottom line is any packet of information that passes through a Cisco router in communication with Talos is tracked and the source can be determined. Whether it is encrypted or not can be dealt with later.

        Certainly, but here is the thing: no matter in how many ways our private lives can be made public whether we like it or not, there are always ways and means of making it harder for the would-be intruders to intrude.

        When I was born, and all the way to the late 70’s, it was possible to get lost, disappear, be gone, fly under the radar (add your favorite cliché here). Example: have you become, and justly so perhaps, persona non grata in town A? Well, you could get lost there and re-emerge with a different name (and maybe some fake documents), in town B (even, but not necessarily, in the same country) and made a fresh start there. Of course, accidents of life, such as unexpected encounters with some one who knew you from your town A days, could blow your cover. And maybe could also make you victim of a little blackmail. But probably not.

        Since those days, CCTV cameras everywhere, the Internet, DNA testing, “telemetry” on the Web and, to top it all: “why not bare-it-all-about-you-and-everyone-you know?” social networks and the “Cloud”, along with ever more powerful computers to integrate the data from it all, have been shrinking how much one is still able to get lost to an almost dimensionless point.

        But that does not mean that, as long as there is a smidgen of privacy left for us in our over-connected world, we should give up defending it. Because, in defending our privacy — while remaining visible and within the law — we are also defending everybody else’s. “You have no privacy anymore, deal with it” is often said by some, with great conviction. Do not believe it: that is just the counsel of despair.

        3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #210730 Reply

          Klaas Vaak
          AskWoody Lounger

          @oscarcp: good comment. And to people who ask “why are you so ‘paranoid’, what do you have to hide?”, I always answer “when you go to the toilet you have nothing to hide, yet you close the door, you may even lock it. Certain things, certain data, are our own and we do not want to share it, that is our right. Period.”

          7 users thanked author for this post.
        • #211654 Reply

          HiFlyer
          AskWoody Lounger

          @oscarcp re: #210550  “When I was born, and all the way to the late 70’s, it was possible to get lost, disappear, be gone, fly under the radar (add your favorite cliché here).”

          When I was born my state did not require births to be registered.   I had no birth certificate till age 17.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #210383 Reply

      anonymous

      Google is the only company that collects Data online, and they have have poor security standards.

    • #210382 Reply

      anonymous

      If I ever had to go back to using Windows again, I probably look into one of these…

      Workstation on Linux: https://www.addictivetips.com/ubuntu-linux-tips/install-vmware-workstation-pro-14-on-linux/

      Fusion on Mac: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHEVpbB_l3g

      Easier to fix when Windows breaks…

      greynad

    • #210406 Reply

      anonymous

      “New investigation by Associated Press shows how iPhone and Android users’
      location data is still recorded even when they have been misled to believe it isn’t.”
      What is the chance that Google is not doing the same to Chromebooks?

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #210416 Reply

      HH33
      AskWoody Lounger

      Weaning oneself from commercial TV may be considered a sign of intelligence, and weaning oneself contributes to mental health.

      We haven’t owned a TV for more than a decade and don’t miss it. As someone once said:

      “Television is to the mind as maggots are to meat.” [Anon.]

      That about sums it up.

    • #210441 Reply

      Cybertooth
      AskWoody Lounger

      I would never buy a Chromebook for all the above reasons, but I just saw this ad on TV tonight (yes, we do watch commercial television 😉 ) and just had to share it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xryaZF1Z4w.

      Lots of good stuff in there, but keep an eye out especially for the screen shots starting around 0:28.  🙂

       

    • #211622 Reply

      anonymous

      “…documentary which explains the very negative side of the Google Corporation”
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXHR3oLb4Rg

      greynad

      • #211625 Reply

        anonymous

        “…documentary which explains the very negative side of the Google Corporation” is not mine.

        Link and signature was all I posted. I understand the Moderator might’ve felt a description of the link is desirable/necessary. I would’ve preferred “The Hidden Side Of Google” as a description.

        To be fair, it should be remembered YouTube is a Google site and that they keep this story available.

        I do not wish to offend,

        greynad

        1 user thanked author for this post.

    Please follow the -Lounge Rules- no personal attacks, no swearing, and politics/religion are relegated to the Rants forum.

    Reply To: Chromebooks may get the capability to dual-boot into Windows

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