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  • July patches are all messed up — but a good hint appears in Japanese

    Posted on July 20th, 2018 at 10:44 woody Comment on the AskWoody Lounge

    I’ve given up on the July patches. Which is why we’re on MS-DEFCON 1.

    There’s a little bit of light, though — coming from a Japanese language explanation from a Microsoft employee.

    Computerworld Woody on Windows.

    If that helped, take a second to support AskWoody on Patreon

    Home Forums July patches are all messed up — but a good hint appears in Japanese

    This topic contains 87 replies, has 29 voices, and was last updated by  Charlie 4 months, 3 weeks ago.

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    • #204724 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      I’ve given up on the July patches. Which is why we’re on MS-DEFCON 1. There’s a little bit of light, though — coming from a Japanese language explana
      [See the full post at: July patches are all messed up — but a good hint appears in Japanese]

      11 users thanked author for this post.
    • #204728 Reply

      zero2dash
      AskWoody Lounger

      Group W, you become more enticing by the day.

      4 users thanked author for this post.
    • #204729 Reply

      PKCano
      AskWoody MVP

      AKB2000003 has been updated 7/20/2018.

      KB 4345459 (Win7) and KB 4345424 (Win8.1) have been added for Group B Security-only.

      9 users thanked author for this post.
      • #204795 Reply

        Charlie
        AskWoody Lounger

        So is KB4338823 still needed if KB4345459 replaces it?

        Win 7 Home Premium, x64, Intel i3-2120 3.3GHz, Group B

        • #204798 Reply

          PKCano
          AskWoody MVP

          See abbodi86 ‘s information here, and check out the link in his post.

          2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #204807 Reply

            Charlie
            AskWoody Lounger

            Okay so no, 4338823 is not needed, just 4345459.

            Win 7 Home Premium, x64, Intel i3-2120 3.3GHz, Group B

            1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #204734 Reply

      PKCano
      AskWoody MVP

      Link to ComputerWorld Article

      4 users thanked author for this post.
    • #204737 Reply

      alpha128
      AskWoody Lounger

      My employer already pushed Windows 7 July 10, 2018—KB4338818 (Monthly Rollup) to my work system.

      KB4338818 is another update that doesn’t play nice if you’ve disabled Libraries on Windows 7.  Specifically, you will lose the ability to rename folders in Windows Explorer if you install this with libraries disabled.  Other than that, I’ve encountered no problems.

      However, my employer did not push out Security and Quality Rollup updates for .NET Framework for Windows 7 SP1 and Server 2008 R2 SP1 (KB 4340556). Apparently that patch is still problematic.

      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #204836 Reply

        Noel Carboni
        AskWoody MVP

        I have a test Win 7 system with KB4338818 and Libraries are nowhere to be seen, yet I can rename folders…

        My question is this: Could you please define “Libraries disabled”? Perhaps I’ve done something different than you.

        -Noel

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #204979 Reply

          GoneToPlaid
          AskWoody Lounger

          Maybe he was talking about the Windows indexing service?

        • #205350 Reply

          alpha128
          AskWoody Lounger

          I have a test Win 7 system with KB4338818 and Libraries are nowhere to be seen, yet I can rename folders… My question is this: Could you please define “Libraries disabled”? Perhaps I’ve done something different than you. -Noel

          I used the .zip download from this page: https://www.askvg.com/how-to-disable-libraries-feature-in-windows-7/

          There are three sets registry settings:

          Disable Libraries in Windows 7.reg
          Only Remove Libraries Icon from Windows 7 Explorer.reg
          Restore Default Settings.reg

          What I’m going to do when the time comes to install July patches is “Restore Default Settings”.  After the patch is applied and I’ve rebooted, I’ll “Disable Libraries in Windows 7” again.

          Perhaps what you’ve done is “Only Remove Libraries Icon from Windows 7 Explorer”?

    • #204744 Reply

      Seff
      AskWoody Lounger

      Group W does indeed become more attractive with each passing day.

      If it gets any worse, Woody, you might find that DefCon 1 doesn’t go quite low enough and you’ll need to invent DefCon 0.

      6 users thanked author for this post.
      • #204833 Reply

        anonymous

        There is an alternative and it gives DEFCON-1 back its original meaning: nuking Microsoft HQ by having a computer virus grilling all their internal servers and development databases.

        Where there is no intelligent life to be found, obviously there is no intelligent life at risk.

         

        Marc

      • #204866 Reply

        lurks about
        AskWoody Lounger

        I think there needs to be a new group: ‘Group N’ N means never connected to the net.

        • #204889 Reply

          anonymous

          I think there needs to be a new group: ‘Group N’ N means never connected to the net.

          Agreed.

          I’m using this strategy with my W10 Home 1703 and W10 Pro 1703 installs. They’ve worked flawlessly since I instituted this policy.

          -lehnerus2000

      • #204982 Reply

        GoneToPlaid
        AskWoody Lounger

        Defcon 0, if Woody invents it, could mean that you must get patched right away if a malware storm is sweeping the Internet and a patch is available to prevent the zero day exploit. You know, something nasty like not-Petya yet worse and spreading even more rapidly.

        Perhaps Defcon -1 should also be invented. Defcon -1 would mean that if you install one or more of the current patches, not only are the patches flawed but also that they will not uninstall properly such that the only solution is to either restore from backup or to reinstall the OS.

    • #204746 Reply

      anonymous

      For Windows 8.1 (x64) the only update that didn’t install was KB4340558, failing with an error of 80092004.   Well, a new one came in, dated yesterday and installed successfully with no workarounds required.  So, that clears up Win 8.1 (x64) for July.   There is probably a fix for Win server 2012 out there.

    • #204748 Reply

      anonymous

      In future editions of Webster’s..Incompetence will be defined as a state of being, invented by Microsoft as applied to Windows patches.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #204762 Reply

      anonymous

      Great Computerworld article, thank you Woody. A new Defcon number 0 or even -1 may be required if this nightmare continues or gets worse. Is it time to re-post the great picture that microfix provided concerning the “Official Windows Servicing Team” =

      https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/really-did-anybody-at-microsoft-test-version-1803-on-their-own-hardware/#post-193264

      The Cathedral Halls of Microsoft Quality Assurance?

      3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #204767 Reply

      WildBill
      AskWoody Lounger

      Group A on Win8.1. So, I can replace KB4338815 (Security Monthly Quality Rollup for July) with KB4338831 (Preview of Monthly Quality Rollup for August) when Woody bumps MS-DEFCON up to 3 or higher. How about when that I happens, I just skip both, install other updates (KB890830 [MSRT], KB4340558 [Rollup for .NET], KB4338832 [Flash security update], & KB4054566 [.NET Framework 4.7.2]), then wait for September to install the Security Monthly Quality Rollup for August? Win8.1 has been pretty stable & I usually avoid Previews like the plague… are there fixes in KB4338831 that I can’t live without for a month?!

      Windows 8.1, 64-bit, now in Group B!
      Wild Bill Rides Again...

      • This reply was modified 5 months ago by  WildBill.
      • This reply was modified 5 months ago by  WildBill.
      • #204769 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        The .NET patches and 4.7.2 are not reliable right now. Maybe by the time the DEFCON number comes out of the cellar. MAYBE..

        6 users thanked author for this post.
        • #204886 Reply

          ch100
          AskWoody MVP

          Not sure about the statement saying that the release of the .NET Framework 4.7.2 is not reliable.
          I have a different opinion, although the patches for all versions of the .NET Framework released in July 2018 have proved not to be reliable.

    • #204776 Reply

      Microfix
      AskWoody MVP

      This all reminds me of the January 2018 patchocalypse, meltdown, spectre fiasco, where over three months, fixes for patches to patch/ and replacement patches were issued. Groundhog months?

      Looks like a I’ll be doing a few external system images over the weekend..then wait a few months for the dust to settle for W8.1 group A (if it ever does..) in the meantime, I’m going group W with W7 again as all devices are working fine with June 2018 patches.

      As someone’s signature says ‘prepare for the worst and hope for the best’

      Edit: The CU Patches for August will be interesting..

      | W10 Pro x64 | W8.1 Pro x64 | Linux x64 Hybrids | XP Pro O/L
      3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #205075 Reply

        James Bond 007
        AskWoody Lounger

        This all reminds me of the January 2018 patchocalypse, meltdown, spectre fiasco, where over three months, fixes for patches to patch/ and replacement patches were issued. Groundhog months?

        Looks like a I’ll be doing a few external system images over the weekend..then wait a few months for the dust to settle for W8.1 group A (if it ever does..) in the meantime, I’m going group W with W7 again as all devices are working fine with June 2018 patches.

        As someone’s signature says ‘prepare for the worst and hope for the best’

        Are you talking about me?

        The Security-only updates for Windows 7 (KB4338823) and Windows 8.1 (KB4338824) apparently have been supplanted by another pair of “fixes” (KB4345459 for Windows 7 and KB4345424 for Windows 8.1) which fix several problems in the security-only patches and rollups. Oh boy.

        The June 2018 patches are working fine for me too on Windows 7 and Windows 8.1. If necessary I shall wait a few months just like the last time from January 2018 to June 2018 until the problems are fixed.

        Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst.

    • #204774 Reply

      anonymous

      If anyone believes things will improve any time soon, just wait for the upcoming Windows 10 1809… and face reality. The Redmond ‘experts’ are just a bunch of progressive clowns messing up each and everything that comes in their way. It’s as if they get paid to kill Windows and all other Microsoft technologies one by one. In the end, they’ll ship Windows running on Electron…

    • #204783 Reply

      jescott418
      AskWoody Lounger

      Microsoft should just say “we will keep issuing updates until everything is fixed”. But we do not know when this will be, or even if that is even possible. Please try and enjoy Windows when it works, and when it doesn’t just use something else.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #204784 Reply

      anonymous

      Microsoft Patching guidance from an unknown source —

      “Point your firearm directly at your computer and gently squeeze the trigger.  If your firearm fails to discharge, continue pulling the trigger until it goes bang or a determination is made that reloading is required.”

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #204800 Reply

      Charlie
      AskWoody Lounger

      Just when you think it can’t possibly get any worse, it does.  I’m no longer leaning toward Linux, I’m being pushed to it!

      Win 7 Home Premium, x64, Intel i3-2120 3.3GHz, Group B

      3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #204801 Reply

      anonymous

      Win 7 & Server 2008

      MS says the patches KB4345459 and KB4338821 are not replacements.

      Brent Alinger [MSFT] (July 18, 2018 at 10:27pm):
      “According to the Windows Servicing team, for the non Windows Server 2016 operating systems, it is required that the update released on July 10th be installed for Windows update to offer the new update. This is because the update is a patch to the previous package. Windows update chooses updates based upon packages previously installed on these operating systems.”

      This says (I think):

      1) KB4345459 is a patch for KB4338823 (Group B)
      2) KB4338821 is a patch for KB4338818 (Group A)

      See:
      Issue with July Updates for Windows

      Note: Server 2008 and Win 7 have the same servicing stack.

      I’m guessing that even if 459 is a replacement for 823, you can install 459 over 823 (without uninstalling 823).

      What’s your take on this guys (and gals)?

      – Carl –

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #204805 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        See abbodi86 ‘s post here and the link he provides.

        • #204814 Reply

          anonymous

          Yep, already had read that, but I still think the above is correct.

          Also, I installed NET 4.72 and KB4340556 (Rollup) last week on a Win 7 test machine. I’m running very heavy NET based, multi-threaded, 64bit simulation software and haven’t encountered issues.

          Could you please point me to some links regarding NET issues? I don’t want to have to uninstall unless necessary.

          – Carl –

          • #204819 Reply

            PKCano
            AskWoody MVP

            See Woody’s main blog post here – comment about the ,.NET not being replaced.

            Then the ComputerWorld article that is linked in that post.

            • #204883 Reply

              ch100
              AskWoody MVP

              There are .NET Framework patches expired and re-released under the same number on July 20.
              Too much trouble this month.
              The only patches which are safe are the Flash and Office patches and I would say based on my own assessment the optional .NET Framework 4.7.2 for all OS, without any updates for now.

              1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #204828 Reply

            anonymous

            @pkcano

            The links you provided do not apply to Win 7. As far as I have been able to determine, there are no issues with NET and Win 7.

            KB4345232 – “0x80092004” error occurs

            Am I missing something?

            – Carl –

            • #204830 Reply

              PKCano
              AskWoody MVP

              You are correct. It covers Win8.1 (KB4340558) but doesn’t mention Win7 (KB4340556). Nevertheless, all things considered, I would not rush to install these patches. Personally, I hide them for the time being. There are just too many problems this month.

              • This reply was modified 5 months ago by  PKCano.
              4 users thanked author for this post.
            • #204884 Reply

              ch100
              AskWoody MVP

              There are/were issues with the July 2018 .NET Framework updates, unless .NET Framework 4.7.2 is installed first as far as I can tell.

          • #204885 Reply

            ch100
            AskWoody MVP

            Leave 4.7.2 installed as uninstalling could cause huge problems, but be careful with the updates. They can normally be uninstalled safely if required, one by one at a time.

        • #204820 Reply

          DrBonzo
          AskWoody Lounger

          I appreciate abbodi86’s post, but, to me at least, the following 2 sentences are not quite clear:

          “To apply security-only update (Security-only update), apply ” KB4345459 “. KB4345459 Is A fix for this problem is added to the contents of KB 4338823 (Security-only update)”

          The first sentence implies that if I want the security only patch, I only need to install KB4345459. But the second sentence says that the contents of KB4345459 are added to KB4338823. To me this second sentence implies that BOTH KB 4345459 AND KB4338823 are required.

          Perhaps this is a translation issue, perhaps this is a “my stupidity” issue, perhaps it’s another issue, or perhaps it’s some combination of these issues. But, in any case, if someone can clarify this it would be much appreciated not only by me, but to many other people here as well (based on the posts I’ve read).

          Thanks.

          2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #204822 Reply

            PKCano
            AskWoody MVP

            My interpretation is: KB4345459 = KB4338823 + a fix for the problem in KB4338823.
            Did you see the table in the linked article from a MS employee?

            6 users thanked author for this post.
            • #204849 Reply

              DrBonzo
              AskWoody Lounger

              I’m not trying to be argumentative, nor am I trying to be a pain in the neck, and I’m going to defer to your far greater knowledge and experience in interpreting MS mumbo jumbo.

              However, even the table seems to have potential for obfuscation. The second column says that KB4345459 is the “patch that fixes the problem”. But there wouldn’t be a problem if the patch in the first column, KB4338823, wasn’t installed. So, that makes me wonder: Does KB4345459 only fix the issue created by KB4338823, or does it fix this issue as well as fix the other problems that were initially addressed by KB4338823?

              I gather from abbodi86’s reply a bit further down this page, that his answer is that KB4345459 fixes the original issues addressed by KB4338823, and in addition, fixes the issue created by KB4338823 if it (KB4338823) was installed, but obviously doesn’t fix the issue if it wasn’t installed. Or, in other words, either just install KB4345459 and be done with it, or if KB4338823 is already installed, then install KB4345459, and then be done with it.

              Thanks for enduring this probably too long post.

              1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #204857 Reply

              abbodi86
              AskWoody MVP

              No worries at all 🙂

              either just install KB4345459 and be done with it, or if KB4338823 is already installed, then install KB4345459, and then be done with it.

              exactly

              KB4338823 contains July 2018 security fixes + may cause TCP/IP BSOD issue
              KB4345459 contains July 2018 security fixes + a fix to prevent/mitigate TCP/IP BSOD issue

              9 users thanked author for this post.
            • #204862 Reply

              DrBonzo
              AskWoody Lounger

              Thanks abbodi86! That was very clear.

            • #205040 Reply

              Laptop Boy
              AskWoody Lounger

              To abbodi86.  Thank you, and PKCano and DrBonzo, for the helpful clarifications. Could I impose on you to clear up one further matter.  I’m a novice, and the answers to the following questions might be obvious, but I’d like to be 100% certain regarding what to do.

              Am I correct that for those of us in Group B (security-only) who are running Windows 8.1, your advice would be:

              (a) If you have ALREADY installed KB4338824, don’t uninstall it.  But do install KB4345424 now to fix the problems in KB4338824.

              (b) If you HAVEN’T ALREADY installed KB4338824, don’t install it (by not installing it, you avoid having to recover from a virtually inevitable BSOD, etc.).  Instead, install KB4345424 only.

              By the way, am I right that KB4345424 is “safe” to install and has no known issues?

              Thank you for the enormous amount of useful information that you generously contribute to this website.

            • #205045 Reply

              PKCano
              AskWoody MVP

              Your (a) and (b) are correct.

              By the way, am I right that KB4345424 is “safe” to install and has no known issues?

              This is not correct in that we don’t know yet whether the fix KB4345424 is “safe” and has no issues. We recommend waiting to install ANY of the July Windows or .NET patches until Woody raises the DEFCON number to 3 or above (see number at the top of the blog). That is what the DEFCON system is all about – WAIT, and minimize the risks.

              2 users thanked author for this post.
            • #205082 Reply

              abbodi86
              AskWoody MVP

              Yes, that’s correct

              KB4345424 is safe, any issues would have showed up by now

              1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #204823 Reply

            Charlie
            AskWoody Lounger

            It’s not just you, I found this to be unclear and misleading too.  Check out my report #204795.

            Win 7 Home Premium, x64, Intel i3-2120 3.3GHz, Group B

            1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #204824 Reply

            abbodi86
            AskWoody MVP

            Google translator 🙂

            2nd sentence cleared:
            “KB4345459 has the fix for this problem, which is added to the contents of KB4338823 (Security-only update)”

            nevertheless, somethings do not worth to complicate it 😀
            install KB4345459 only as suggested, or install both
            either will work 🙂

            6 users thanked author for this post.
      • #204821 Reply

        Charlie
        AskWoody Lounger

        I think Woody described it best when he wrote “Upside Down and Backwards”.

        I can think of some other words to use but they can’t be used in this blog.

        Win 7 Home Premium, x64, Intel i3-2120 3.3GHz, Group B

        2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #204806 Reply

      Geo
      AskWoody Lounger

      Group A,  Win7 x64, AMD, home premium, home user.  Just don’t  install  any Previews you don’t need them. Other wise no problems.

    • #204809 Reply

      Jan K.
      AskWoody Lounger

      Customers who have successfully installed the security updates and who are not experiencing any issues do not need to take any action.

      I haven’t installed anything, but since I’m not experiencing any issues, I’ll follow the recommendation anyway and don’t take any action.

      Excellent.

      What a blissful day.

      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #204810 Reply

      Kirsty
      AskWoody MVP

      Update posted by @gborn on borncity.com:

      Updated Microsoft Security Advisory Information
      Posted on 2018-07-20

      Reason for Revision: To address a known issue in the security updates released on July 10

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #204812 Reply

      Susan Bradley
      AskWoody MVP

      …and why is it only the Japanese blog has this detail?  I don’t get it.

      Susan Bradley Patch Lady

      6 users thanked author for this post.
    • #204816 Reply

      anonymous

      @pkcano

      Just caught the borncity update. I don’t know what to believe now.

      Ahhh! (pulling what little hair I have left out).

      – Carl –

    • #204846 Reply

      Noel Carboni
      AskWoody MVP

      It’s funny…  I did my fitness tests on my VM early on and they passed.  Then I installed the July updates on hardware – a Win 7 x64 Ultimate system, which is primarily used here as a server.  I’ve seen no problems whatsoever.  Note the uptime in Task Manager.

      Win7AOK-1

      I think this goes to show that there is great power in communicating with a lot of folks on the Internet.  One person’s (or system’s) experience can only go so far, because an operating system is a very complex beast and no one could possibly use it all.

      -Noel

      Attachments:
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      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #204858 Reply

        OscarCP
        AskWoody Lounger

        Noel Carboni,

        Thanks. Please, could you also mention which Win 7 (x64) July updates did you install in the VM and the PC?

         

        • #204872 Reply

          Noel Carboni
          AskWoody MVP

          Installed via the normal Windows Update applet. I screen grabbed ’em.

          W7JulyWU1

          W7JulyWU2

          -Noel

          Attachments:
          You must be logged in to view attached files.
          3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #204881 Reply

        ch100
        AskWoody MVP

        The issues are obviously experienced depending on what is installed and used on that particular system. Chances are that most people don’t encounter any issues.
        However, due to the fact that there was such a massive response from Microsoft (and confusion as well), the best practice in this case is to follow the mainstream and either not install anything from July 2018 except for Flash and Office, or at minimum to apply the later patches if uninstall for whatever is already installed is not an option. There are also out-of-band releases from June 2018 like an SSU for Windows 10 1803 which I would uninstall too, although the SSU uninstall require advanced knowledge of doing so.

        • This reply was modified 5 months ago by  ch100.
        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #204855 Reply

      OscarCP
      AskWoody Lounger

      The discussion, so far, has got a little confusing for me.

      My take, so far and, please, correct me if I am wrong, is that, now, the update has to be made in two steps:

      (1st)   Apply the first version of the (flawed) July update of either the S&Q Rollup (Group A) or the Security Only (Group B).

      (2nd) Next, having done that, apply the second, later July (fixer) update corresponding to the one previously installed in 1st.

      >>> This applies to Win 7, 8.1 and 10 (any version).

      Doing all this might:

      (a) Fix a problem with the first update without actually uninstalling it, or (b) the install process of the second update might, automatically and without telling anyone this out loud, first uninstall the first update and then replace it with the second. Either way, the BSOD problem is supposed to get fixed.

      I am in no hurry to do something about this… Just wondering how this works, exactly, to get and keep that information for later use.

      Group B, Windows 7 Pro SP1, Intel I-7 4-core “sandy bridge”.

    • #204880 Reply

      ch100
      AskWoody MVP

      As per article:

      Bottom line: Don’t patch

      or uninstall whatever is released and installed after 12 June 2018, except for the Flash updates and Office updates which appear to be clean.

    • #204903 Reply

      Geoff King
      AskWoody Lounger

      Why don’t we all band together, take Microsoft over, sack all their staff, and get Woody and all the Ask Woody MVPs to run things ?

      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #204943 Reply

      cesmart4125
      AskWoody Lounger

      In the article originally written in Japanese, I believe there’s a typographical error.  Under For Windows 7 SP1 / Windows Server 2008R2the following statement appears:

      To apply Monthly Rollup, apply ” KB 4338818 (Monthly Rollup) + KB 434559 ” or ” KB 4338821 (Preview of Monthly Rollup)

      KB 434559 should read KB 4345459.

      And yes, Woody, this article does add some clarity.

      Edit to remove HTML. Please use the “Text” tab in the entry box when you copy/paste.

      • #205107 Reply

        anonymous

        You may be correct regarding the incomplete KB 4345459, however; in the Chart higher up on that page, it shows the patch for the full “Monthly Quality Rollup” KB4338818 as KB4338821 (the 2018-07 Preview Rollup) with no mention of KB4345459, which shows in the Chart as the patch for the Security only KB.

        So is KB4345459 even applicable to patching KB4338818???

        • #205109 Reply

          PKCano
          AskWoody MVP

          Security-only KB4345459 contains Security-only KB4338823 plus the fix for tcpip.sys.

          KB4338821 is the 2018-08 Preview Rollup. It contains the 2018-07 Monthly Rollup KB4338818 plus the fix for tcpip.sys

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #205234 Reply

            anonymous

            I’m a bit confused. When looking on the supportpage of 4338821 it states: this non-security update includes improvements and fixes that were a part of KB4338818 (released July 10, 2018) and also includes these new quality improvements as a preview of the next Monthly Rollup update: etc.

             

            Doesn’t this mean that is does NOT include the securityfixes from 4338818?

            ~ Annemarie

            • #205243 Reply

              PKCano
              AskWoody MVP

              Rollups are composed of three parts: non-security updates, security updates, and IE11 cumulative updates.

              Rollups and Preview Rollups are cumulative. The 2018-mm Preview (released a week or so after the 2018-mm Rollup) is composed of four parts: the three parts of the 2018-mm Rollup PLUS the non-security updates that will be contained in the 2018-mm+1 Rollup

              1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #205252 Reply

              anonymous

              Thank you, crystal clear now 🙂

              ~ Annemarie

    • #204944 Reply

      David F
      AskWoody Lounger

      I think there needs to be a new group: ‘Group N’ N means never connected to the net.

      Agreed. I’m using this strategy with my W10 Home 1703 and W10 Pro 1703 installs. They’ve worked flawlessly since I instituted this policy. -lehnerus2000

      I thought MS were going to build in a mechanism into Win10 so that you had to connect at least once a month or it would get deactivated (or reduced functionality). Did that never happen?

    • #204955 Reply

      Carl D
      AskWoody Lounger

      David,

      That’s an interesting question. I have seen several shop windows recently with TV’s/monitors displaying advertising where I’ve seen a blue Windows box in the image which says something like:

      “Windows needs your help. Windows Update has been unable to check for updates for the past 30 days” (or words to that effect) and there are 2 choices – go to Windows Update or Close.

      I’m assuming these shop computers are running Windows 10 and they’re not connected to the Internet. I’m also assuming that if you close the message box it will keep coming back again and again.

      Now, I don’t know if there is a way to disable these notifications but if any”workarounds” are as effective as the methods of disabling Windows Update for W10 (especially in the Home Edition) then I don’t believe there is much chance of stopping them. Unless you go online and let Windows Update run, of course.

      • #205028 Reply

        OscarCP
        AskWoody Lounger

        Then maybe “Group N” should mean “Never Windows 10”. Or “aNything but Windows 10.”

    • #205029 Reply

      anonymous

      Ok, I read everything. However, I don’t understand this:

      If you check Win 7 KB4338823 package details in MS Catalog, it does not say that it has been replaced by KB4345459. Same with KB4345459 package details, it does not say that the update replaces KB4338823. So, giving all your advice so far, I assume that this has to be an oversight by MS. In other words, right now, MS Catalog info implies both updates are needed, instead of just KB4345459.

      Edit to remove HTML. Please use the “Text” tab in the entry box when you copy/paste.

    • #205089 Reply

      twbartender
      AskWoody Lounger

      Based on the remarks from @abbodi86 and others, it now appears that if you are installing the security only update in windows 7, it only requires that KB4345459 be installed to fulfill the requirements for the windows 7 July Security Only Update.

      If this is true, how is it that the Windows support page for KB4345459 states the following under the section, “Update replacement information”: This update does not replace a previously released update.

      So if that is the case, wouldn’t that imply that KB4345459 is a fix only and should only be installed after installing KB4338823?

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #205100 Reply

        abbodi86
        AskWoody MVP

        1- KB articles don’t contain accurate info about replacement in about 97 % of the time

        2- KB4345459 is a non-security update, KB4338823 is a security update
        per metadata rules, the second can replace the first, but not the opposite

        3- This happened before in the last few months, and the same argument continues every time 🙂

        4- My only intention is to deliver an update fact, i’m not trying to prove a point or make any statement
        it’s totally OK to follow the suggestion, or go with the official route (i.e apply both updates)
        😀

        • This reply was modified 5 months ago by  abbodi86.
        5 users thanked author for this post.
        • #205117 Reply

          OscarCP
          AskWoody Lounger

          So what is the bottom line?

          If one is Group B (installing Security Only, never the Rollup), is patched completely, with no issues, through June and has not installed KB4338823 yet, which one of these two options is the correct one: (a) update KB4338823 first, then KB4345459, or (b) just update KB4345459 and ignore the other one?

          (Assuming one installs anything at all, which right now I do not recommend unless pressed by the circumstances of one’s job to do so.)

          With all the due and highest respect to those making assertions previously on what to do about this, to me this discussion is turning less and less clear than mud by the posting.

          (And, please, do not answer with a link to a previous posting. Just stating it is option (a) or option (b) should be enough, as it cannot be both. Can it?)

           

          • #205123 Reply

            anonymous

            Yeah, you got it. a and b both works the same. Take your pick.

          • #205129 Reply

            DrBonzo
            AskWoody Lounger

            @oscarcp – I’m not sure there is a bottom line yet. After all we’re not even 2 weeks into the July patch cycle.

            To me, it comes down to this at the moment:

            MS seems to want you to install both patches. That could be problematic if a reboot after the first patch (8823) results in a BSOD or some other problem. I’m not sure I’ve got the chops to recover from something like that in order to get the second patch installed. Then again, it may be OK to install both patches without a reboot in between and just reboot after the 2 patches have been installed.

            abbodi86 and PKCano seem to be saying that only the second patch is required (5459). That seems to be the more attractive option to me.

            So, who do you have more confidence in, MS or our MVPs? Your opinion may differ, but to me it’s a no-brainer – I’ll put my money on our guys!

            Of course, who knows what will happen in the following days? So, I’m waiting, as usual, until Defcon 3 or higher.

            1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #205161 Reply

              OscarCP
              AskWoody Lounger

              Thanks for the answers.

              So, as I now see it and summing up, perhaps this situation might be best described by this well-known quote used here as metaphor:

              “Well to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I kind of lost track myself. But being that this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you’ve got to ask yourself one question: ‘Do I feel lucky?’ Well do ya, punk?”

              Not feeling particularly lucky today, I think I’ll go along with DrBonzo’s advice and just give this more time to get sorted out.

    • #205114 Reply

      CraigS26
      AskWoody Lounger

      Since Skipping Only the March Updates I’ve had good Win 7-64 successes in 2018.

      Today (just updated Macrium Image at the Ready) the 1st attempt Froze on the 1st Update Install (Word ’10), so a Re-Start & Repeat netted Installs and the MS “Re-Start Now” button that produced a normal desktop. My usual 2nd Re-Start to “Oil” things resulted in what seemed like a 3-week “Preparing to Update Windows” routine (possibility) that you should be prepared for B4 a forced shut-down. THIS is at least the 2nd instance of “Preparing to Update Win/Don’t Turn-Off” showing on the 2nd Re-Start – NOT the 1st.

      A little sluggish after Re-Start # 2, and back to Normal after Re-Start #3.  Net Framework Rollup was Un-Chk’d but based on having 4.72 and prior OK reports I chk’d it. (2010’s) Word, PPt, (2) Office, MSRT, Net Frmwk, July Rollup. A 2nd Net Frmwk (un-chk’d) was an Offline offering). FYI for Win 7-64 users.  Good Luck.

      WU Grp A - Win 7-64 Hm Prem / Hm-Stdnt Office '10(32bit) / i5 Sandy Bridge Gen 2 / NO Java or Flash

      • #205122 Reply

        Charlie
        AskWoody Lounger

        Well now, that really cheered me up!

        Win 7 Home Premium, x64, Intel i3-2120 3.3GHz, Group B

    • #205119 Reply

      GoneToPlaid
      AskWoody Lounger

      1- KB articles don’t contain accurate info about replacement in about 97 % of the time…

      So very true. For us Group B users, we have to check the info shown for a given security-only update in the Microsoft Update Catalog. At least this is accurate 90% or more of the time. The KB articles are virtually worthless for Group B users in terms of mentioning what updates are replaced by any given security-only update.

      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #205143 Reply

        Charlie
        AskWoody Lounger

        As of today, KB4338823 is a Security Only Update, and KB4345459 is NOT a Security Only Update.  So as of right now, unless it changes, KB4338823 must be installed first in order for Group B’ers to keep up the proper update line.

        That’s the way it looks to me, I just checked the MS Update Site.  Thanks GoneToPlaid for bringing that to my (our) attention!

        Win 7 Home Premium, x64, Intel i3-2120 3.3GHz, Group B

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #205322 Reply

      anonymous

      May have missed it, but dont see much/any commentary in here regarding Windows 10 ver 1709 issues.

      Per the Japanese chart the 7/10 July KB4338825 should be patched with 7/16 KB434542 (obviously an incomplete/incorrect number).

      What is the correct 7/16 number? How will this come down the WU chute?

      I have Win 10 Pro ver 1709, WU Group setting at 2, Semi-Annual Channel, Feature deferred 365 days, Quality Update (currently at 21 days due to July mess).  So for me will each of these KB’s be delayed 21 days from release, creating a delayed correction problem?

      Never had a patch issue as this since I have been on Windows 10.

      • #205326 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        That should be KB 4345420 for 1709. You may not see it unless you car SAC (Targeted).

        • #205348 Reply

          anonymous

          PK thx for the KB number.

          I am not “Targeted” and dont intend to be due to pending 1803; however, how am I supposed to “fix” the problem that will be caused by letting WU install the July KB4338825 if WU doesnt also download KB4345420???  Seems they would both have to go in together before reboot to avoid the problem altogether – yes?

          Are we going to have to by pass allowing the July update at all and await for the August Monthly cumulative Update?

          • #205351 Reply

            PKCano
            AskWoody MVP

            Be patient. We are still on DEFCON-1. August updates are three weeks away. Much can happen in the meantime. WAIT.

            Incidently, the .NET patches that are part of the CU are still bad.

            4 users thanked author for this post.
    • #206958 Reply

      Charlie
      AskWoody Lounger

      That’s about all we can do is wait, and hope that much will be done before the update deadline arrives (August Black Tuesday).  It’s now 7/30/18 and I’m still scratching my head and wondering what is really the proper way to do the KB4338823 / KB4345459 update.  You know it’s really a mess when we have this much discussion, and there are still doubts.

      Hopefully this will get sorted out and definitively answered by Woody and crew.  Thanks and good luck!   🙂

      Win 7 Home Premium, x64, Intel i3-2120 3.3GHz, Group B

    Please follow the -Lounge Rules- no personal attacks, no swearing, and politics/religion are relegated to the Rants forum.

    Reply To: July patches are all messed up — but a good hint appears in Japanese

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