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  • Keizer: Looks like the next Windows 10, version 1803, will arrive April 3 or 10

    Posted on February 16th, 2018 at 12:06 woody Comment on the AskWoody Lounge

    That matches with what I’ve heard – and have been hearing for quite some time.

    Good overview of Insider and Skip Ahead, Gregg Keizer at Computerworld.

    P.S. There’s still no official name for the version, far as I know. “Windows 10 Spring Creators Update” doesn’t work, because version 1703 was in the North American Spring, and it was a “Creators Update.” I still say “Win10 Spring forward after Fall back Creators Update” would work. What do you think?

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    Home Forums Keizer: Looks like the next Windows 10, version 1803, will arrive April 3 or 10

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    This topic contains 77 replies, has 26 voices, and was last updated by  anonymous 1 month, 2 weeks ago.

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    • #167867 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      That matches with what I’ve heard – and have been hearing for quite some time. Good overview of Insider and Skip Ahead, Gregg Keizer at Computerworld.
      [See the full post at: Keizer: Looks like the next Windows 10, version 1803, will arrive April 3 or 10]

    • #167879 Reply

      anonymous

      v1803 build 17101 already offered as Windows 10 Insider Preview Build 17101 (RS4) on Feb. 14

      https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2018/02/14/announcing-windows-10-insider-preview-build-17101-fast-build-17604-skip-ahead/

      it was installed as a test on vm w/o any real news or odd staff to mention.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #167925 Reply

        woody
        Da Boss

        I’m running it on two test machines right now. Using them to write the 3rd edition of “Win10 All-In-One For Dummies”

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #167887 Reply

      jescott418
      AskWoody Lounger

      Release it April 1st seems appropriate. Of course the fool is us for accepting the update whenever its released.

      6 users thanked author for this post.
      • #168112 Reply

        teuhasn
        AskWoody Lounger

         

        Agreed. If they’re looking for a new name, it suggests several possibilities:

        Windows 10 April Fools’ Update

        Windows 10 War of 1803 Update

        Windows 10 Blue Screen of Death Update

        Windows 10 Dead on Arrival Update

        Windows 10 Brick Update

        3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #168160 Reply

          le_clandestin
          AskWoody Lounger

          The be in continuation of the previous thread about AskWoody move:

          Windows 10 The Ludicrous OS

    • #167889 Reply

      PKCano
      AskWoody MVP

      I installed Insider Preview 1709 Build 17101.1000 this morning in a VM without any problem. Still has the watermark.

      3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #167928 Reply

      anonymous

      Well, the next Windows 10 version is the same mess as the last one and none of the bugs and performance issues introduced in FCU have been fixed. It’s just amazing how Microsoft breaks each and everything that was working well in previous Windows versions and doesn’t care to fix. Instead, they play with colors…. lol

      • #167930 Reply

        zero2dash
        AskWoody Lounger

        Oddly enough I’ve had no bugs or performance issues on multiple machines with both CU (and now, FCU) at this point. r/windows10 is anecdotally filled with people who like you, claim to be having issues, and probably 5x more people commenting/replying saying they have no issues (or none of the issues listed). [shrug]

        CU and FCU have run just as flawlessly on my machines with the same hardware as 7 before them. I’m also happy to say that I’ve had no issues with Windows Updates, either.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #167968 Reply

          anonymous

          You point out that the evidence people post about how much of a bonfire FCU is is anecdotal but you do so by saying stuff that is essentially anecdotal yourself which personally doesn’t work in my opinion.Like myself is having issues with stuttering in certain programs and gaming and a bonus point to a update breaking windows update which indirectly saved me from the amd brick patch,small blessings i suppose. This is of course is anecdotal too but I would rather personally be happy for those that don’t have issues but understand that its happening to other people and it sucks rather than just borderline dismissing how badly microsoft has botched this OS so far for many people hence the simmering contempt bubbling below the surface.
          Of course if this somehow comes across as an attack, somehow; then woody should delete my post and be done with it.i’ll understand

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #168023 Reply

            woody
            Da Boss

            I think both of you have legitimate points. Win10 in general still leaves many people cold — for good reason. With four cumulative updates in the past six weeks, 1709 is getting better.

            All evidence is anecdotal — and subjective. The people who have solid statistics are (1) biased and (2) unwilling to report the numbers.

            5 users thanked author for this post.
            • #168052 Reply

              lurks about
              AskWoody Lounger

              It seems there are major problems with each new release and the early round of updates based on the volume of reports but not proper statistical sampling. But this might point to a serious strategic flaw with W10; the lack of a defined Ubuntu style LTS version good for several years which would be suitable for the vast majority of users. The semiannual non-LTS releases even if a bit buggy would not as problematic as most users should be on the LTS release anyway. I would suggest the LTS version is released every 3 years and good for 6.5 years after release. The semiannual releases could be good for 9 or 15 months.

              1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #168079 Reply

              anonymous

              @ lurks about,

              Presently, M$ only allow enterprises to buy and use a certain Version of Win 10 Ent for about 2 years only, unless they have also bought additional Software Assurance or subscriptions or have paid double for the 10-years LTSC edition.

              M$ will lose a lot of profit$ if they allow the enterprises to buy and use a certain Version of Win 10 Ent for 6.5 years.

              So, your suggestion is likely unacceptable to M$, unless many enterprises refuse to upgrade from Win 7 Ent to Win 10 Ent in 2020.

        • #168040 Reply

          anonymous

          @ zero2dash

          zero2dash wrote on 10 Aug 2016 at https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/quick-overview-of-windows-10-updating-strategy/; …
          …. There’s more control there than I thought, but there’s still no way to outright deny updates and that’s not OK with me…not on hardware I bought and paid for. MS has a bad track record on delivering updates that cause OS and/or software failures and breaking things that were not originally broken…so, I don’t trust them to hand over “the keys to the kingdom” with my servers and workstations.

          .
          and on 24 Aug 2016 at https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/powershell-problems-with-kb-3176934-the-new-win10-v-1607-build-14393-82/; …
          …. I just updated a dev system at work from 8.1 to 10 using the ‘assisted technologies’ loophole, so it went to 10 AU…and started doing the ‘freeze’ after 1 minute of boot time right off the bat. Ugh. Back to 8.1 it goes…

          What a mess. Way to demonstrate the follies of living on the bleeding edge by forcing updates, Microsoft!

          .
          and on 28 Dec 2017 at https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/free-assistive-technologies-win10-upgrade-going-away-on-sunday/#post-154646; …
          …. I was a Win7 holdout for the last several years, and despite trying Win10 out several times and several versions including LTSB, I always reverted back. I’d already started dual booting Ubuntu MATE, I already had my plans laid out to use Win7 for Steam games not ported yet in 2020 and Ubuntu MATE for everything else.

          Then I started my new job with a new company a few months ago and I had to use Win10 1703 every day. And everything changed. I went from being a Win7 stalwart and a Win10 refuser to a Win10 accepter, maybe even lover. 1703 is a very solid OS. It’s not a popular opinion, and it’s not shared by most of the Ask Woody visitors, but, it’s my opinion nonetheless.

          I don’t see any chirping from 1703 that alarms me. Granted I’m not actively blocking things in my router, and I’m not pouring over connection logs. But I don’t see anything alarming. As far as I can tell, once you adjust Win10’s privacy and security settings, same as you do in Win7 and Win8.1 now, well, Win10 doesn’t seem to phone home and chirp like people think it does. Maybe I’m giving it too much rope and assuming it won’t hang itself.

          1703 reminds me a lot of Vista SP1. A lot has been fixed. The OS has been made more whole. Just like with Vista pre-SP1, I think that Win10 1511 was a decent OS. But it needed a lot of help.

          One of the things I especially like about 10 now is the deferral policies. Rather than having to disable Windows Update altogether, or, tell friends/family/customers not to install updates for a certain period of time, I can defer the updates. I don’t have to tell them anything. They use WU like any normal person would, but with my settings in the background, they’re not getting or installing updates that haven’t had the incubation period yet (and the inevitable MS-DEFCON rating improvement). From a sysadmin and “friendly neighborhood PC fixer” standpoint, 10 is my new best friend.

          Is it perfect? Heck no, absolutely not. Things have been stripped from Pro that never should have been. Concessions have had to be made that weren’t on the table before. However, is it still a very good OS? Absolutely. I say all these things not to try to convert anyone, but just to offer a differing opinion. Again, the majority opinion of the Ask Woody visitors and regulars seems to be that 10 needs to be taken behind the woodshed – and I don’t feel as if that’s the case.

          Sometimes, a Windows IT Admin’s tune changes when his/her continued livelihood depends on the success of Win 10, similar to a chameleon.

          2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #168120 Reply

            ch100
            AskWoody MVP

            It is an ongoing learning process.
            Some people learn while moving forward and winning in general, while other people just don’t.
            It is largely an individual choice.

            • #169202 Reply

              MrJimPhelps
              AskWoody MVP

              It is an ongoing learning process.
              Some people learn while moving forward and winning in general, while other people just don’t.
              It is largely an individual choice.

              For me, “learning while moving forward” means exploring some of the available Linux distros, and then deploying and using Linux on my home computers.

              I have definitely felt like a winner since moving to Linux.

              Group "L" (Linux Mint)
              with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
        • #168123 Reply

          anonymous

          Well, if you don’t notice issues, you certainly don’t use Hyper-V. Anyway, thanks for sharing your personal opinion.

    • #167970 Reply

      anonymous

      Windows 10 Creators Creators Update

      Is my proposed name for this.

      • #168044 Reply

        anonymous

        I suggest “Windows 10 Destroyers Update”.

        HMcF.

        3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #168588 Reply

          mindwarp
          AskWoody Lounger

          But destroyers are good ships, why insult them by naming a Win10 version after them? (gives her Kancolle destroyers headpats)

          • #168648 Reply

            anonymous

            Sorree!!!

            (from the anonymous poster who suggested “Destroyers Update”)

    • #167980 Reply

      anonymous

      I pray for the day we just have to worry about regular updates, and not having to think about feature updates at all…

      3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #168030 Reply

      Noel Carboni
      AskWoody MVP

      WOW. I just got an overwhelming and disconcerting feeling of “Ugh, can I just sit this one out?“… That feels very weird indeed.

      I’m a lifetime career computer geek and news of new OS software used to evoke in me more of a reaction of, “Ooh, where and when I can get it?

      Now I’m more like, “Geez, do I really have to deal with this? Again?“…

      Dang you Microsoft. How did you manage to suck the life out of my passion?

      Thing is, I don’t think I just suddenly got old. Last time I felt a spark and yearning for discovery over a new OS release was just a scant couple of years ago. And I still like Windows 8.1.

      How about, “Spring Encore Update”? “April Fools Edition”? “Windows Short Track?”

      “Windows, you’re breaking my heart; you’re going down a path I can’t follow” edition?

      I guess one thing is that it’ll probably solve the inability to complete an update past 16299.125 that my v1709 setup has taken on. Sigh.

      -Noel

      • #168043 Reply

        BobbyB
        AskWoody Lounger

        Now I’m more like, “Geez, do I really have to deal with this? Again?“…

        I couldn’t agree more @Noel . I was going to call it a halt at Win10 1703 but 2 new HDD’s and I thought what the heck i’ll give 1709 a try. Now 1803’s at the doorstep, with “Timeline” seemingly a feature I could possibly use. I am still probably going to give it a miss. Even installing a new Version in to a VHD or VHDX has lost its allure as really there’s never really any earth shattering new features to go for, just a miscellany of new bugs and annoyances to deal with. Its been said many times before but i’ll reiterate “Push it back to a yearly or 2 yearly release with correspondingly 2-4 years support its better for the average user, Business and the DevOps at M$ who clearly are having trouble shoving this stuff out of the door. They’ve just released a whole plethora of Win10 S nonsense which probably makes Win10 the most complicated product line ever from M$, certainly about as clear as Mud trying to explain to the uninitiated and I am not sure I get it myself some times. Didn’t M$ not 2 years ago state they wanted a less complicated less difficult product line to support?

        • #168507 Reply

          anonymous

          Noel, I always find your posts so helpful and well thought out. I have to continue to use Windows 10 as well for my job.

          I have a screenshot I saved of your desktop you posted somewhere and I am interested to know how you got to have only the following apps installed when you run Get-AppXPackage:

          • windows.immersivecontrolplanel
          • Microsoft.Windows.ShellExperienceHost

          What’s your secret? I’ve tried various Powershell commands to remove all the built in nonsense apps in Win10 but I still have dozens installed!

           

          • #168643 Reply

            Ascaris
            AskWoody MVP

            Powershell alone couldn’t do it for me in Windows 8.1.  A tiny command line utility called install_wim_tweak.exe did the deed, though… a quick search indicates a lot of hits using that and Windows 10 as search terms, so it may be what you need.  Be aware that programs like this are powerful, and along with power comes risk– always back the system up before trying anything like this.

             

            • #168668 Reply

              anonymous

              Where can I download install_wim_tweak.exe?

            • #168771 Reply

              Ascaris
              AskWoody MVP

              Here’s a page that might help get you started.  I don’t know if what is described still works… it’s just the first one that popped up when I searched.  The link to Legolash2o should point you to the tool itself (right now the msfn site is down for maintenance, so I can’t see if it is).  Be careful and remember that things like this can mess things up, so make a backup (and I would suggest keeping it as long as the modified version of Windows is in use, in case you later discover something that won’t work because of the changes).  I’d suggest Macrium Reflect if you don’t already have one… it has a free version and works very well.

              • This reply was modified 3 months, 4 weeks ago by  Ascaris.
              • This reply was modified 3 months, 4 weeks ago by  Ascaris.
            • #168862 Reply

              Ascaris
              AskWoody MVP

              “Helps if I actually provide the link when I say “here’s a page”” was supposed to be a reason for edit, not tags… eek.

      • #168049 Reply

        MrJimPhelps
        AskWoody MVP

        Dang you Microsoft. How did you manage to suck the life out of my passion?

        I wondered how long it would be till this began to happen. As more and more IT pros cross this line, at some point things will shift dramatically away from Microsoft. Not sure where they will go, however. I think some will go to Linux, some to MAC, and some to Google.

        How about, “Spring Encore Update”? “April Fools Edition”? “Windows Short Track?”

        I vote for April Fools Edition!

        Group "L" (Linux Mint)
        with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
        4 users thanked author for this post.
        • #168058 Reply

          lurks about
          AskWoody Lounger

          Not sure where they will go, however. I think some will go to Linux, some to MAC, and some to Google.” That pretty much sums up where I stand. I will not support W10 at all with constant battles just to keep some hardware running. The others all seem to grasp that users and their informal IT departments are not thrilled about constantly fixing some goofy problem with a release or update (this month it seems to be problems with USB devices) that are not fixable.

          Also, most users are not tied to a specific Windows only application (they may think they are) that requires them to remain on Windows. So migrating to something else while tedious initially is not that difficult in reality; often more time consuming than hard.

          Edit to remove HTML

          3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #168050 Reply

        Ascaris
        AskWoody MVP

        WOW. I just got an overwhelming and disconcerting feeling of “Ugh, can I just sit this one out?“… That feels very weird indeed.

        I’m a lifetime career computer geek and news of new OS software used to evoke in me more of a reaction of, “Ooh, where and when I can get it?”

        Now I’m more like, “Geez, do I really have to deal with this? Again?“…

        Dang you Microsoft. How did you manage to suck the life out of my passion?

        I know you’ve been skeptical about Linux, Noel, but this may be one thing it can fix.  I know what you mean about MS sucking the joy out of new releases… but I still get a charge out of Linux releases in a way that has not been true with MS for years.  It was fun when each of the Mint 18.x releases came out… when WINE 3 finally arrived… when LibreOffice 6 was released (that one’s on Windows too, of course). Linux isn’t as advanced as Windows in some areas (completeness of GUI coverage for admin tasks, for one), but it’s still evolving in a good direction.  New releases still tend to be better than what preceded them, and that’s why new releases don’t invoke the negativity that they do in Windows.

         

        4 users thanked author for this post.
        • #168093 Reply

          Noel Carboni
          AskWoody MVP

          Linux isn’t as advanced as Windows in some areas (completeness of GUI coverage for admin tasks, for one)

          That wouldn’t be a problem for me; I’m quite fond of command line work, actually. I’m even primed for using the shell since I already do a lot with the Gnu Toolkit for Windows – which means I’m combining command line filters, regular expressions, etc. all the time in Windows. It would be hard to unlearn Windows, but I imagine the joy of discovery of other new stuff would ease that pain a bit.

          At present I still have specific needs for Windows development for my business, so it has seemed prudent to continue to use it for my main desktop integration, and my familiarity has led me to run it on other systems as well.

          Trust me, I’ve been mulling over my options. Thing is I could change my chosen desktop system out and still have access to Windows – via virtual machines. I even already have the virtual machines now; I would just need to open and run them in the Linux VMware host.

          I’m starting to warm to the idea of changing to an alternate desktop system, and since what Microsoft is doing is not making me feel a desire to move my hardware to Win 10 it’s growing ever more necessary. I’m not interested in handing over control (WaaS is really not oriented to dyed in the wool software boffins), I am not impressed by what the “cloud” delivers (uncontrolled communications? are you kidding?), and if they’re going to make it this difficult (incessant, often failing updates are such fun) to keep their system working in a professional manner the cost/benefit ratio starts to tip. We’ve already seen better; there’s no need to accept worse.

          I just need to find the time to pick a Linux and put it in a VM so I can start working through the specifics and getting used to it.

          -Noel

          5 users thanked author for this post.
        • #169211 Reply

          MrJimPhelps
          AskWoody MVP

          Linux isn’t as advanced as Windows in some areas (completeness of GUI coverage for admin tasks, for one), but it’s still evolving in a good direction.

          Setting up a new user account, or modify an existing user account, via the GUI (as opposed to the Terminal) is a thing of beauty in Linux Lite. When you set up (or edit) an account, you are given a checklist of permissions to choose from for that account. The one which sticks in my mind is “SUDO”. In other words, if you want the user to be an administrator on the computer, you check “SUDO”. If you don’t want that, you make sure that “SUDO” is unchecked. When I saw “SUDO” as one of the choices, I knew immediately what that meant.

          Also, there is a Hardware Configuration program listed in the GUI. (I don’t recall what it is called.) Click on that, and you get detailed system information about your computer. The only item missing from the info you get is the size of your hard drive. (It took a little digging to find the Terminal command to get the size of my hard drive if I was not logged in as an administrator. In case you want to know, the command is “df”, and you don’t need any admin rights to run it.)

          In other words, things are definitely evolving in a good direction in Linux.

          Group "L" (Linux Mint)
          with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
      • #168419 Reply

        anonymous

        Hello NoelC,  I (we) understand your feelings of having the life, the FUN of an OS with its learning curve and ultimate functionality reward, sucked out.
        Steve Gibson said he has no plans of going to 10, neither do I.

        How about the Tax Day Edition of win 10?

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #168655 Reply

          lurks about
          AskWoody Lounger

          If released on April 15 we could call it Windows 10 Quadruple Disaster Edition: Taxes are due, the day Lincoln died, the day the Titanic sank, and day of the latest release of Windows 10. Somehow deckchairs on the Titanic and Windows 10 fit.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #169213 Reply

          MrJimPhelps
          AskWoody MVP

          When “Windows 10 April Fools Edition” is released on or about April 1st, it may indeed wreak havoc on some who are frantically trying to get their taxes done before the 15th.

          Hopefully they will have time to recover before the 15th. But best advice is to do a backup before the April Fools Edition is foisted on you.

          Group "L" (Linux Mint)
          with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
      • #168592 Reply

        mindwarp
        AskWoody Lounger

        I used to be on my PC all of the time when I wasn’t at work, back when it ran Win7.  Now… if I even boot it up, it is for as long as it takes to get whatever task done, usually using adb to backup an Android device.  Then it stays off, generally for weeks.  I have to deal with Win10 at the library I work at, including patrons who ended up with it who are still confused by it.  Even though at home my install is pretty tweaked, I no longer care.  I don’t WANT to play anymore.  If you get a geek like myself to feel that way, that isn’t a good thing.  Unfortunately, I can’t give patrons recommendations, but for me, well, that lack of caring has me chilling out on Android not doing anything serious, which is sad…

        • #169217 Reply

          MrJimPhelps
          AskWoody MVP

          I have to deal with Win10 at the library I work at

          You could try one of the following two things at the library on the “public” computers:

          1. If Linux were installed on the computer, the users could log in as “guest”; whatever they did while logged on would disappear when they log off. You probably won’t be allowed to switch all of the public computers to Linux; but maybe they would let you deploy Linux on one of them, as a test.

          2. With Windows, consider deploying a product like Deep Freeze (http://www.faronics.com/products/deep-freeze/enterprise) on the public computers. Deep Freeze will lock in whatever you have set up. A reboot will restore the standard desktop, erasing anything that a user has done.

          Group "L" (Linux Mint)
          with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
    • #168091 Reply

      Microfix
      AskWoody MVP

      Proposed name: Microsoft Windows 10 ‘Spring Bored Edition’

      | 2x Group A W8.1 | Group A+ Linux Hybrid | Group A W7 | Group W XP Pro |
        No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT - AE
      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #168149 Reply

      anonymous

      Hi Guinea pig reporting an issue with Windows 1703 and febraury update

      Installing this update and using firefox and Microsoft edge is a good recipe for a Blue screen…

      Don’t install it if possible.

      Source:Me, a guinea pig that had to restore his system. (and it seems i wasn’t the only one)

    • #168170 Reply

      anonymous

      @Noel Carboni

      Ihave already began to traverse the path toward Linux as a bare metal installation. I have been running two distros in VmWare virtual machines which I think you might similarly consider. I have a VM set up for Linuxmint 18.3 Cinnamon and anothe VM for Ubuntu 16.04.3 LTS. My host OS is W8.1 x64 but I am spending much of my time in the Linux distros relearning Unix command line input as the Linux GUI is not yet as comprehensive as Windows. I think either distro would be a good place to start to kick the tires but Linuxmint would present a desktop that initially would seem more familiar to a long time Windows user. If you set up a Linux VM, open a terminal session and enter ‘cat /proc/cpuinfo’ return and you will get details that show your Intel processor has the Meltdown, Spectre 1 and Spectre 2 kernel memory leak vulnerabilities. These virtualization layers are really fascinating.

      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #168465 Reply

        anonymous

        When my workhorse Vista system reached end of life about a year ago I installed Linux Mint (LTS version) on the bare metal.  I had previously installed and maintained various VMs running an assortment of Linux distros and so I was comfortable with the changeover.

        So far, running Linux Mint as my main system has been hassle free and I no longer have cold sweats and butterflies in my stomach each month as Microsoft’s offerings of questionable updates come down the chute.

        IMHO, Windows 10 in all its incarnations has been a comedy of errors.  And that’s sugar coating it.  Standing on the sidelines and observing the fallout since Windows 10 was introduced convinced me 1) to move to Linux on existing hardware and 2) when I do acquire a new system it will not sport Windows 10 as its primary operating system.

        3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #168470 Reply

          Noel Carboni
          AskWoody MVP

          How did you find Linux feel, in terms of performance, on the same hardware as compared to Vista? Since I do care about performance, getting more out of the same hardware would be an incentive.

          -Noel

          • #168484 Reply

            anonymous

            @ Noel Carboni

            The Linux kernel first brings forth Linux distros like Debian and Archlinux which are mostly used by tech-geeks. The tech-geeks can mostly do whatever they want with Debian/Archlinux, eg customization = Linux is like a DIY OS. The tech-geeks can even compile their own Linux kernel and any non-available device driver from source.

            Ubuntu have adapted Debian to be more user-friendly to the average computer users, in terms of GUI, pre-installed programs, etc. In this aspect of user-friendliness, Windows is the best, esp Win 7/8.1.
            ___ Linux Mint is just a fork or derivative of Ubuntu = LM developers save on resources by relying on Ubuntu’s work.

            For the average users, non-mainstream usage of the computer can be problematic in Linux Mint/Ubuntu, eg gamers who run a dual graphics cards system(= an integrated Intel HD and a high-performance discrete Nvidia/AMD graphics cards), those who run a 4 multi-monitors setup, artists who use large external USB graphics tablets, etc.
            ___ For tech-geeks, the above should present little problems.

            1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #168490 Reply

            anonymous

            I haven’t tried to benchmark performance.  However, my subjective feel is that Linux performs as well as or better than Vista for my computing needs.  Vista was constantly hitting the disk for all sorts of reasons and disk activity is considerably reduced under Linux.   And Linux swapfile usage has been minimal.  Another subjective observation is that VMs running under VirtualBox hosted on Linux have performed as well as their predecessors running under VMWare hosted on Vista.

            To be fair, my old hardware and its configuration is pretty basic by today’s standards so I can’t say to what extent my personal experience is relevant to modern, more complex environment.  Even so, I’ll still go with Linux distro as the operating system of choice for my next hardware acquisition.

            1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #168506 Reply

            DrBonzo
            AskWoody Lounger

            @Noel Carboni – I converted an old (2009) HP Pavilion laptop with 4 GB memory, 320 GB hard drive and 64 bit AMD Athlon Neo processor from Vista Pro 64 to Ubuntu 16.04 LTS. The computer is and was used for pretty mundane everyday basic stuff – i.e., no I/O intensive apps, no gaming, just email, web browsing, and MS Office sorts of stuff. I’m a non-techie with no quantitative benchmarks, but the Ubuntu certainly feels much quicker and more responsive. I have made rough measurements of boot-up and shutdown times and they actually are much shorter with Ubuntu.

            I personally am not very comfortable yet with terminal commands but from what you say, that shouldn’t be much problem for you – merely learning some new syntax, probably.

            I would think that you’d be pretty happy with an LTS version of Ubuntu since they have 3 years of support (might be 5 years, don’t remember off the top). 16.04 is the current LTS version and 18.04 should be coming out fairly soon.

            Oh yeah, never have had any issues of any kind whatsoever with Ubuntu patches/updates; they just seem to work even though I install most of them within a day of their release date.

            1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #168519 Reply

              DrBonzo
              AskWoody Lounger

              I believe LTS versions come out in late April of even numbered years and are supported for 5 years.

              So, 16.04 LTS came out in April 2016 and is supported through April 2021 and 18.04 should be out in late April of this year and supported through April 2023.

              Plenty of time to adjust, tweak, and optimize a version and still prepare for an upgraded version. I figure I’m good to go with 16.04 until 2021, at which time I’ll upgrade to 20.04 which will already have been out for a year and likely have most of it’s bumps smoothed out.

            • #168602 Reply

              anonymous

              By manually creating a separate Home partition, the OS upgrade from Ubuntu 16.04 LTS to Ubuntu 18.04 LTS after April 2018 will be smoother, ie all your user configuration and settings will be retained, eg your Preferences/settings and bookmarks in Firefox will be retained = you will only have to reinstall your Third-party programs. This is done by only formatting the / or Root partition of Ubuntu 16.04 LTS during the install of Ubuntu 18.04 LTS, ie do not format the Home and Swap partitions.

              It is not advisable to do an inplace upgrade from Ubuntu 16.04 LTS to Ubuntu 18.04 LTS = prone to failure, eg by file corruption. It is OK to do an inplace upgrade from Ubuntu 16.04 LTS to Ubuntu 16.04.3 LTS. This also applies to LM 18.x LTS and LM 19.x LTS.

              1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #168652 Reply

            Ascaris
            AskWoody MVP

            Generally, I think the OS performance hierarchy (best to worst) is something like:

            Linux Mint > Windows 8.1 > Windows 7 > Windows Vista

            I haven’t used 10 enough to rank it… it’s simply not decent enough to use long enough to get any kind of feel for its performance.

            There was an anecdote I read a while back, supposedly from a MS employee, where he admitted that Linux was faster than Windows, but that was because it doesn’t do as much as Windows.  So what is that extra stuff Windows is doing?  Linux (Mint) is doing everything I want, so why is all that extra stuff important?

            The speed rankings listed above are measures of using the OS (and its various bits) itself; once an application has been launched, the OS should just get out of the way and run it to the limits of what the hardware can achieve.  In this context, I have found Linux thus far to be the equal of Windows or better… oddly, one of my old Windows games actually runs better (noticeably) in Linux under WINE than it does in Windows natively.  I played through Portal (an admittedly older game) on my 9 year old laptop in Linux, and it was flawless… not a stutter or a hitch anywhere.  Smooth as glass!

            Windows 8.1 boots the fastest of any of these, but that’s a bit deceptive too. All Windows versions I can remember continue to chug after the desktop is shown; if I try to open the Start menu and do something, it closes itself nearly instantly while Windows continues to execute post-login tasks; it will do this some 4-5 times (if I immediately reopen the menu each time) before it’s finally ready to let me use the PC unimpeded.  With Linux, when the desktop appears, it’s ready to go, and I do have quite a few background tasks starting in Linux too.

            In some areas, Linux (such that I have experienced it; each distro and release is different) still lags behind.  Linux file-copy performance using Samba (Windows networking) is much slower than in Windows; while Linux is fully capable of reaching the same data transfer speeds using FTP, for example, or with remote shares mounted manually (using CIFS), the simple automounted shares (in other words, just browse there and double click it, as in Windows with SMB1/netBIOS enabled) are about half as fast as in Windows.  That annoys me to no end, but the manual mount is a workaround.

            Local file-copy performance (from one local drive to another) is the same in Windows 8.1 and Linux.

             

            4 users thanked author for this post.
            • #168707 Reply

              Jan K.
              AskWoody Lounger

              There was an anecdote I read a while back, supposedly from a MS employee, where he admitted that Linux was faster than Windows, but that was because it doesn’t do as much as Windows. So what is that extra stuff Windows is doing?

              Linux harvest 1892 datapoints phoning home to +40 (? Noel has the exact number) MS servers?

              Linux most probably neither have such a comprehensive task schedule list as MS… if you haven’t tried it, open the scheduler and be prepared to be… amazed…

              Then again, Linux probably isn’t as good as MS to make sure your system is always up and running both as safe and smooth as Windows. (okay, that was sarcastic!)

              2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #168662 Reply

            johnf
            AskWoody Lounger

            Linux is different in that you get lots of choices for Desktop Environments (DE’s), and those can impact performance significantly, especially on older PC’s. For example, DE’s like KDE and Cinnamon are much more graphic intensive (and use more memory) vs DE’s used for Linux Mint XFCE, MX-17 XFCE, and Linux Lite (LXDE). Here’s a link that compares various Linux DE’s:

            https://www.lifewire.com/best-linux-desktop-environments-4120912

            As far as Distros go, Phoronix has done comparison speed tests for various ones (see this link)

            https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=15-way-linux&num=1

            There are various trade-off’s here, though. For example Arch is very fast…but you spend a lot of time compiling programs, it’s not as easy as Debian/Ubuntu/Mint. Likewise, Fedora has a lot of new features…but the cost of being bleeding edge is often being the latest beta tester.

            In my own experience, I prefer easy to use Distros that I can tweak easily for speed/performance. In my case, that’s XFCE Linux Mint, XFCE MX-17, and LXDE Linux Lite. You can significantly improve performance (especially with tweaks as in the link below), while still getting a pleasing to look at and FAST OS.

            https://sites.google.com/site/easylinuxtipsproject/

            3 users thanked author for this post.
          • #169220 Reply

            MrJimPhelps
            AskWoody MVP

            How did you find Linux feel, in terms of performance, on the same hardware as compared to Vista? Since I do care about performance, getting more out of the same hardware would be an incentive.

            Linux Lite 32-bit performs very well on my old, lame eMachines computer. The only thing on the Windows side which was comparable was Windows 8.0, which quickly went out of support. But it sure ran well on that old computer. And with StartIsBack installed, it was the perfect OS for that computer. That is, till I discovered Linux Lite.

            You could install different distros of Linux each on a different flash drive, then just reboot with the one you want when you want to try it out.

            The flash drive approach gives you at least three definite benefits:

            1. It is super easy to try out a Linux distro – just pop in the appropriate flash drive and reboot.

            2. You can save whatever changes you make, if you set up the flash drive with persistent storage. See this post for more information:
            https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/linux-lite/#post-168818

            3. Running Linux Live from a flash drive is likely a lot faster than running it from DVD.

            Linux Lite runs about as fast from a flash drive as it does when you install it to the hard drive. And I can watch Youtube videos with no buffering when I am running Linux Lite on my old eMachines computer with 2 GB of RAM. Not even Linux Mint runs that well. Here’s what I wrote about my experience with Linux Lite on the old computer: https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/linux-lite/

            So far, I’m thinking that Linux Lite is an excellent solution for old, slow computers. Also, either Mint or Lite for newer, more capable computers.

            I lean toward Mint for everything except the old, lame computers, because Linux Lite seems to be supported by one guy (I hope I’m wrong about that), whereas Linux Mint is supported by a huge community. That is the only hesitation I have about Linux Lite.

            Group "L" (Linux Mint)
            with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
    • #168450 Reply

      anonymous
      • #168488 Reply

        Jan K.
        AskWoody Lounger

        It’s hard to run a professional business and be a beta tester!

        If I was that AutoCAD guy with CNC machinery, I too would be beyond miffed… totally unacceptable situation to be forced into just because of some c*** update procedure.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #168599 Reply

          Cybertooth
          AskWoody Lounger

          It really is the height of irresponsibility for MS to force-feed updates even to PROFESSIONAL customers who use Windows in their business.

          Microsoft must bring back the ability to refuse specific Windows updates INDEFINITELY, not for 35 days or 365 days or what have you, but FOR AS LONG AS WE DECIDE TO.

          The Party line is that these updates are “for your own good” to protect your computer from the bad guys. Cool — that CNC guy can’t get his work done but at least his computer is “protected.” Big whoop. As far as he’s concerned, WU has behaved just like malware.

          At some point we need to get past the “good intentions” of noble-sounding theory and start looking at ACTUAL RESULTS, the havoc that the geniuses in Redmond are wreaking on countless customers out there who require a RELIABLE, STABLE platform to GET THEIR WORK DONE. And no, it won’t do to tell small businesses and the self-employed that they should simply grow to the size of a federal agency in order to afford the Enterprise version with Software Assurance etc. etc., blah blah blah.

           

           

          5 users thanked author for this post.
    • #168472 Reply

      anonymous

      @Noel Carboni

      I think you will find that Linux imposes a significantly lighter footprint on system resources than Windows OS, particularly W10. My bare metal hardware sports a Samsung SSD primary drive and 16 GB of Corsair RAM in 8 GB dimms. When I set up my Linux VMs , I only allocated 3 GB of system RAM and 25 GB of SSD to each VM. When I do similar tasks I cannot notice much performance difference between the Linux VMs compared to working in the W8.1 host OS. I am not trying to give the impression that Linux is the answer to all our needs and wants but I would say that I could step into Linux as a bare metal install very easily and if some software vendors come to realize that MS is increasingly a less reliable partner, more interest in porting Windows programs to Linux could emerge. Personally, I had great hopes for W10 and had anticipated the OS as a great opportunity to build on the W8.1 kernel. What I have seen thus far with W10 has been more than a disappointment and that is what has driven me into the Linux evaluation arena.

      3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #168518 Reply

        anonymous

        If Linux systems would offer a satisfying desktop/configuration/gaming/developer experience, Windows would be history already. The good news is, Linux (i.e. CentOS) works well as a guest OS in Hyper-V. Having a Windows 10 Pro host node with Hyper-V enabled is all it takes to run a Linux VM so you can have both.

      • #168665 Reply

        johnf
        AskWoody Lounger

        The default Ubuntu install can be somewhat heavy on system resources. You might want to try Lubuntu, MX-17 XFCE, or Linux Lite, and then compare those to W10.

    • #168594 Reply

      Jan K.
      AskWoody Lounger

      I still say “Win10 Spring forward after Fall back Creators Update” would work. What do you think?

      Win10 Too Big to Fall

      Win10 What a Service

      Or Win10 GHUS (God Help Us All)?

    • #168595 Reply

      EricEWV
      AskWoody Lounger

      I’m hoping by 2020 things are a little smoother with Windows 10 since I think I’ll be railroaded into upgrading to it, considering as a gamer all of my things likely will not work on Linux.  I do have a friend or two on Windows 10 and they haven’t really complained so I’ll likely just have to pinch my nose and get help on here when that time comes, if it does.  Never know if Windows 7 suddenly gets the XP treatment or something with an extended extended support.

      • #169232 Reply

        MrJimPhelps
        AskWoody MVP

        Eric: Have you thought about going to Windows 8.1? Windows 8.1 with Classic Shell installed looks and feels just like Windows 7; and it will be supported till 2023, giving you three more years of support than Windows 7.

        Group "L" (Linux Mint)
        with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
    • #168650 Reply

      Rick59
      AskWoody Lounger

      So I had spare time this long weekend and decided to take my 6 year old Lenovo AIO in a different direction. I had been unable to get security updates except by downloading them manually from the Windows Update catalog and no patches so far address the meltdown vulnerability on my 32 bit machine. So I saved my important data to a flash drive and I installed CloudReady from Neverware which is Chromium OS which is like a more basic version of Chrome OS without some bells and whistles. My machine was on the compatible list and so off I went. Install went smoothly and I have everything pretty much sorted except for printing. Still working on that, so in the meantime I email my iPad and print anything I want off our wireless home printer. Even with my daughter’s Pixelbook getting it to print takes a couple of extra steps. So I’m going to use this setup for the next few months until some new hardware comes out for deskttops Chrome OS such as the Asus Chromebox 3 at which time I will get some new hardware. I had thought about an iMac but it has tons of locally installed programs that I will never use and the price/use equation just didn’t seem to make sense.

      So now all we have in the household running Windows is one 6 year old Sony Win10 64 bit machine which will serve very limited duties such as managing wireless printers and the like.

      Change is good!

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #169235 Reply

        MrJimPhelps
        AskWoody MVP

        Rick:

        Please report back to us with your thoughts about CloudReady after you have had a chance to try it out for a while.

        Two questions I will have:

        1. How much software is available for it? There is a ton of great software in the Windows world. Often there are acceptable alternatives for Linux. But what about CloudReady?

        2. How easy is it to share your hard drive with other computers on your home network, or to access another computer’s shared drive from your CloudReady computer?

        Thanks.

        Jim

        Group "L" (Linux Mint)
        with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
    • #168666 Reply

      anonymous

      OK guys, I have a new boutique computer arriving and it will have Windows 10 Pro x64 latest edition (assume that is 1709 Fall Creators). Currently I am running Windows 7 Pro x64.

      Never having to go through a new Edition/Version/Feature? update – what happens?

      During my reseach, it appears every version of Windows 10 has a different clean install windows setup display.  When a version update comes down, do you have to go through a new complete set up routine? Or, does it just (joke here) update what is currently installed and a voila after a reboot you have the new screens and features (and headaches)?

       

      • #168671 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        You should do the initial setup OFFLINE so you have the blocks in place the first time you hit the Internet. Each time I go through an update, particularly the “upgrade update” to the next version, I go through the Settings, Group Policy, Task Manager, Registry, to make certain the changes I’ve made are still in place. They have been getting better about not messing with things between Cumulative Updates, but between versions is a different story. System Restore ALWAYS gets turned off between versions, for example.

    • #168690 Reply

      Rock
      AskWoody Lounger

      OK guys, I have a new boutique computer arriving and it will have Windows 10 Pro x64 latest edition (assume that is 1709 Fall Creators). Currently I am running Windows 7 Pro x64. Never having to go through a new Edition/Version/Feature? update – what happens? During my reseach, it appears every version of Windows 10 has a different clean install windows setup display. When a version update comes down, do you have to go through a new complete set up routine? Or, does it just (joke here) update what is currently installed and a voila after a reboot you have the new screens and features (and headaches)?

      Yes initial setup have the computer unplugged and no wifi. That way Cortana won’t be able to force update everything before you have a chance to run WUSHUS (I think that’s what it’s called lol). That way you can be in control.

    • #168954 Reply

      anonymous

      I’ve been mulling this over for a few days, so here are a few ‘trademarked fill in the blank game’ style names. Windows 10 1803 _____ Edition

      ARRRRRGH!!!!, Assertion failed, Spontaneous head parking, Stop Error, Something went wrong*, “Oh!, but our Window’s windows look real pretty! Windows™”

      * To be fair I have seen this recently on a GNU/Linux installation, using a desktop application. I would accept “Something went wrong that we developers could not anticipate please submit a bug report…”

    • #169107 Reply

      bigdormouse
      AskWoody Lounger

      I have a suggestion.

      Skip 1709 (one of the error stages) and move directly from 1703 to 1803.

      Is it possible?

      • #169178 Reply

        MrBrian
        AskWoody MVP

        Microsoft’s Michael Niehaus tweeted recently that it should be ok to skip Windows 10 versions, although he added that it’s not a best practice.

    • #169356 Reply

      AlexEiffel
      AskWoody MVP

      Windows Sigh Creators Update?

      Windows already that time of the year update?

      Windows but i still can’t complete the update to 1709 update?

      Windows sucked the passion out of me update?

       

      • #169552 Reply

        anonymous

        “Windows but i still can’t complete the update to 1709 update?”

        Here is a video of repairing the WU. This will also work for windows 7 & 8.

        The man goes into using Disk Cleanup and clearing system update files, then uses a MS Windows Update Repair tool and mentions  power management settings to allow large updates to succeed. He has success with these tools on his PC which was Windows 10 failing to go to build 1709.

        Windows Update Troubleshooter BuildOrBuy Published on Jan 28, 2018
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmH5mDpXj-U

         

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #169686 Reply

          AlexEiffel
          AskWoody MVP

          I myself don’t want to be on 1709 but there was a guy that had this very standard Lenovo laptop rebooting trying to install this 1709 with no success over and over. He was going crazy. We simply pushed the group policy setting to delay feature upgrades and it stayed on 1703 without trying to go to 1709 anymore.

          I know it is anectodal but oh boy i have so much anecdotes about the about 100 computers I am around compared to any other Windows versions. For me, there is definititely osmething here. Modifying constantly old working code without a testing department might be what Mr Nadella think is the new way to be agile and whatever, but I think he is slowly creating a monster that will end up in a dead end with a very difficult turning back. The next Windows will be so great it won’t even be called Windows anymore.

    • #189516 Reply

      anonymous

      I’m having real performance issues with windows 10 compared to windows 7 and even Windows 8.1 (who could beleive that  .. nobodies except me maybe). I’m a developper in c++ , i made some very simple program in 32bit and 64bit doing the same simple tests on memory, giving me each steps duration and each average final durations with minimums and maximums as well. (no disk acces at all !! .. just simple calculations loops .. kind of counters doing always the same eactly things !)

      I’m running  the 3 diferent OS on the same same machine (multiboot), so same CPU (Ryzen 1900x) same Graphic cards ( 2 * 1080Ti) and same RAM (32gb) + (on 3 same Samsung high speed SSD even if its not making any diferences in theory ..)

      Result for my test are (average) 50 tests for each Os
      from 570µs to 580 µs on windows 7
      from 571µs to 585 µs on windows 8.1
      from 1610µs to 3234µs on windows 10 !!!! SO Strange and a bit scandalous

      Note that, OS & drivers are up to date on my 3 Os ..  I ckecked the cpu usage, Ram usage, disk access before and after each tests, nothing to say , But that every things is near 0%-1% everywhere ….

      (I got differences with graphic tests as well, doing very basics rendering operations .. But diferenences are less important , kind of 13% to 15% minus than w7 and 8.1 on W10  if I look at the maximums of framerates I can achieve with my simple tests ..)

      Hope Microsoft will read and fix that mess one day … before 2020!

      It’s just scandalous ! And customers are the only loosers at the end of the dy ! … :'(

      PS : (i’m not an english native person so don’t blame me on my english please, i tried my best !!)

      2 users thanked author for this post.

    Please follow the -Lounge Rules- no personal attacks, no swearing, and politics/religion are relegated to the Rants forum.

    Reply To: Keizer: Looks like the next Windows 10, version 1803, will arrive April 3 or 10

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