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  • Make your own room for new Windows versions

    Posted on September 18th, 2018 at 17:06 woody Comment on the AskWoody Lounge

    Yesterday Microsoft posted an article called Windows 10 update issues on devices with low storage space.

    It explains how running Windows Update may freeze if you don’t have enough drive space.

    Symptoms

    On Microsoft Windows 10 systems that have limited storage space (such as thin clients or embedded systems), when you run Windows Update, the update initialization may fail.

    Cause

    Windows Update does not check systems for adequate space requirements before it initializes.

    There follows a laundry list of things you can do to free up space on your hard drive or SSD.

    What you won’t find is an explanation of why the installer can’t simply look for sufficient space before, you know, installing, and falling over gently if there isn’t enough room.

    @rpodric has a great analysis:

    So… could somebody tell me why Windows can’t check before stepping in the ooze?

    Would somebody also tell me why Microsoft ever allowed “Windows” machines to be sold with 32 GB of storage?

    Windows as a Tired Old Relic….

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    Home Forums Make your own room for new Windows versions

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    This topic contains 17 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by

     b 5 months, 3 weeks ago.

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    • #218195 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      Yesterday Microsoft posted an article called Windows 10 update issues on devices with low storage space. It explains how running Windows Update may fr
      [See the full post at: Make your own room for new Windows versions]

    • #218203 Reply

      b
      AskWoody Plus

      I don’t think the steps in the first two workarounds (temporary files and downloads) make any sense.

      Cannon fodder Chump Daft glutton Idiot Sucker More intrepid Crazy/ignorant Toxic drinker "Saluted blockhead" (Group ASAP)

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #218221 Reply

        anonymous

        It is not unreasonable to delete temporary files as function system maintenance. A small stub program could check free space and use an integrated stripped down section of the disk cleaner utility for the cleaning task. Microsoft should be consider compressing OS files not used for one month first, then if need be larger user files to gain space.

        I bet some folks’ download folders look like a hot mess like mine used to, so users do need to evaluate whether files need to be kept there.

    • #218207 Reply

      lurks about
      AskWoody Lounger

      Checking that might be enough space is a bit beyond MS given their ongoing problems with getting updates and patches to work. But they have had plenty of time to figure it out.

    • #218209 Reply

      anonymous

      Not Microsoft caused  but recently I found 34Gb  of files in the temporary directory of a 128Gb SSD.  It happened to coincide with the Defcon 4 and the space consumed prevented one update with no warning. As well as checking available space before attempting update,  a good OS would clean out all its temporary files on restart.

    • #218212 Reply

      anonymous

      I assume there would be people running a dual boot environment with Windows 7 on on its own partition and Windows 10 or Linux on another.

      After EOL for Windows 7 surely space could be freed up from the “Winsxs” and “SoftwareDistribution” directories.

    • #218213 Reply

      anonymous

      RE full disks, an unexpected source of problems- I have a 250GB SSD and one time I had a full disk when there was no good or apparent reason. After looking for conspicuously large directories, turns out I had turned on “Trace Logging” for Kaspersky Anti-Ransomware and it had filled up my disk with many GBs of logfiles in a fairly short amount of time (ie months not years).

      Now I just run Windows Defender (on 1709) as Woody suggests, mainly for the tracking reason. Bad enough if Microsoft does it in the OS without adding other sources (leave alone the problematic politics of the day).

    • #218230 Reply

      EyesOnWindows
      AskWoody Lounger

      It’s their own stupid fault! Back when I ran Windows NT 4.0 I was able to install and maintain it on a single 420 MB drive. Then along came Windows 2000 and I couldn’t even install it in 1GB! Each version keeps getting further bloated in size and find myself using less and less of what gets installed. Features I used to use get removed or hidden away, everything I do use gets scrambled around and more useless features keep getting added that cannot be removed. Right now any usable code  is shown by DIR /A C:\Windows\System32 which together with drivers is just under 2GB and DIR /A C:\ shows 1.3GB used for the page and swap files. I’m not convinced that most of the rest of the space isn’t just simply wasted by the 32GB installation. Certainly I kept none of it when I installed version 1803 recently and I absolutely wouldn’t dream of backing any of it up! What an absolutely bloated mess…

      HP Compaq 6000 Pro SFF PC / Windows 10 Pro / 1803
      Intel®Core™2 “Wolfdale” E8400 3.0 GHz / 4.00 GB
      EyesOnWindows

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #218234 Reply

      BobbyB
      AskWoody Lounger

      Well when I open “My Computer” it shows just how much at a glance, the disk Size, Contents (quantity), in all my Partitions, VHD’s, Network Drives and USB’s within a second. M$ seriously want us to believe that this ability cant be included in a an upgrade or they must know through their all snooping Telemetry?
      I know if you try a clean install on a Disk with inadequate Disk Space, it will tell you in no uncertain terms “Nope!” As Woody, rightly, points out what in Heavens name are they doing selling 32GB Machines with Win10 bundled if they are going to persist with this upgrade “Merry Go Round” its folly in the extreme.
      As for getting you to store files in the “Cloud” or on other storage media, well that blatantly ignores the fact that One Drive only gives you about 5GB’s free version, and do you really want to travel with a pocket full of USB sticks or have a collection of them on your real Desktop? Of course for those on limited Data access storage in the Cloud is a none starter any way as well as not every connection these days is exactly lightning fast.
      SYSPREPPING a Win10 image typically takes a 45GB Partition or VHD(X) other wise the disk gets full, after all the Drivers, updates, Office, one or two useful Progs’s 7zip and the like, and that’s not even intended for daily use.
      Poor excuse M$ and you should know better than that if your willing to force these, mostly, unwanted upgrades on us when the Machines just aren’t up to it, but we have to have them right? even if it means crashing/Bricking/never ending install, a working machine virtually in the first place.
      As an amusing aside years ago, if you remember, M$ released a little util for checking if your Machine was capable of running Win10. So for “Fun and Giggles” I ran it on my old Laptop circa 2000-2001 (Win2k, XP vintage) not a problem! the M$ Util. proudly proclaimed, on a 40GB, 32bit (x86), 1.4GB ram with an ancient Raedon Xpress 200M Graphics card, well Win8 didn’t share its confidence and so I figured Win8.1 and upwards was out of the question.
      Mercifully it still happily “chugs” along with Win7Prox86 and Office 2010. and that Suits me fine 😉

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #218243 Reply

        Klaas Vaak
        AskWoody Lounger

        @bobbyb: I like you little anecdote at the end. There is a valuable lesson in there: why upgrade or throw away a system & configuration that works, even if it is old or no longer receives security updates.

        I worry a lot about the time when my Win 8.1 will not receive security updates anymore. I do not want to upgrade to Win 10, and although switching over to Linux would be the obvious thing to do, I dread it because of the amount of time involved, time I would prefer to spendon doing more enjoyable things like read a book.

        Maybe I’ll just keep chugging along with my old system after 2023. I know I will eventually have to bite the bullet and the decision cannot be postponed once that old “chugger along” gives up the ghost.

        1x Linux Mint 19.1 | 1x Linux antiX

    • #218274 Reply

      geekdom
      AskWoody Plus

      Related and applicable as your best resource is you:
      https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/things-to-do-before-making-system-updates/

      Group G{ot backup} Win7Pro · x64 · SP1 · i3-3220 · TestBeta
      • #218348 Reply

        anonymous

        @geekdom offers a link

        Related and applicable as your best resource is you:
        https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/things-to-do-before-making-system-updates/

        That guide stops right at the point of this topic. Your last bullet point is to check for updates. In order to cope with this subject you would need to add steps to complete process. Having checked for updates and viewed the projected size, now evaluate the additional overhead needed for swap space. Continue to remove unwanted items, or add storage until required size is available. Then begin download and install.

    • #218276 Reply

      John
      AskWoody Lounger

      Yeah small storage fine for Chrome OS it was designed to use a small storage design because the system is designed to use cloud storage and perform updates without residual older files remaining. Windows is absolutely the worst example of a OS being able to handle twice a year upgrades and retain the previous release on the local storage for days until it is removed by user or disk cleanup. Incredibly PC makers go along with this bad practice because they could care less. You buy a cheap PC and don’t realize the pitfalls that’s your problem.

    • #218288 Reply

      MrJimPhelps
      AskWoody_MVP

      I have an idea what Microsoft could (and should) do to address this:

      1. Don’t allow a new PC to be sold with Windows 10 installed if the internal drive is less than 128 GB. It is unconscionable to sell a brand new Windows 10 device with an internal drive as small as 32 GB. For the average user, 128 GB is the minimum that they will know how to deal with when Windows updates happen.

      2. Prior to downloading any updates, Windows should check the available space, and if there isn’t enough, pop up a window which will allow the user to choose where to delete files. Then delete those files for the user; don’t make the user figure out how to do it himself.

      Group "L" (Linux Mint)
      with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #218327 Reply

      Jan K.
      AskWoody Lounger

      Two questions? Lemme give it a try….

      So… could somebody tell me why Windows can’t check before stepping in the ooze?

      Intelligence is something in the clouds, way above down-to-earth problems like these minute details…

      Nothing would be easier than to check free disc space and nobody knows better how much space is needed for the selected/forced download than Microsoft, so the question boils down to a matter of will. And care for victims customers…

      Microsoft lacks both will and care.

      Would somebody also tell me why Microsoft ever allowed “Windows” machines to be sold with 32 GB of storage?

      Better profit margin… and have now offered a helpful link how to deal with such a small disc.

      The hardware division probably have no idea of what Windows 10 is. And based on bricking updates offered so far, one can only conclude that no one at Microsoft are using these machines…

      From Ms link:
      Uninstall apps you don’t use anymore

      Like the twice a year force-fed apps from you?

      There! At least I try! 😀

    • #218344 Reply

      anonymous

      Despite purging the 32GB embedded SSD to the best of my ability, I have been unable to update WIN10. However, on two different minimal machines, I succeeded by copying all data to a micro SD, then clean installing W10, using the Media Creation Tool. Worked like a charm!

      • #218356 Reply

        MrJimPhelps
        AskWoody_MVP

        If you insert a sufficiently large Micro SD card prior to doing updates, Windows will give you the option of using the space on the Micro SD card to make the updates possible.

        Group "L" (Linux Mint)
        with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
    • #220101 Reply

      b
      AskWoody Plus

      Yesterday Microsoft posted an article called Windows 10 update issues on devices with low storage space.

      This Microsoft article appears to have been re-written today in a much shorter and simplified form:

      Windows 10 update issues on devices with low storage space

      Symptom is now “error message” instead of “fail”.

      Cause is now “will display an error message” instead of “does not check systems for adequate space requirements”.

      I’m not surprised it was re-written as it was very poorly worded previously (and some recommended steps made no sense).

      In my opinion the quality of Microsoft’s documents is worse than the quality of their updates.

      Cannon fodder Chump Daft glutton Idiot Sucker More intrepid Crazy/ignorant Toxic drinker "Saluted blockhead" (Group ASAP)

      1 user thanked author for this post.

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