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  • Microsoft yanks the Win10 1809 upgrade

    Posted on October 6th, 2018 at 05:12 woody Comment on the AskWoody Lounge

    UPDATE and some corrections in Computerworld Woody on Windows.

    In the past few hours — very early Saturday morning US time — Microsoft pulled the Win10 version 1809 upgrade package. Details are sparse (yawn, as I grab a cup of coffee), but it looks like the official Download Windows 10 page is on version 1803, and ISOs have disappeared.

    The KB 4464619 article now states:

    We have paused the rollout of the Windows 10 October 2018 Update (version 1809) for all users as we investigate isolated reports of users missing some files after updating.

    If you have checked for updates and believe you have an issue, please contact us directly at +1-800-MICROSOFT or find a local number in your area https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4051701/global-customer-service-phone-numbers.

    If you have access to a different PC, please contact us at https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/contactus/ (link will vary according to country of origin).

    If you have manually downloaded the Windows 10 October 2018 Update installation media, please don’t install it and wait until new media is available.

    We will provide an update when we resume rolling out the Windows 10 October 2018 Update to customers.

    Permit me to provide an English-language translation:

    If you were gullible enough to believe the breathless reviews about a product that’s marginally better than what you have, and you trusted Microsoft enough to install it on your machine as quickly as you could, the joke’s on you.

    Moral of the story: Listen to what the experienced Windows folks say. It’s happened before, and it’ll happen again.

    This time it’s particularly dire, because I have no idea how Microsoft is going to restore the data it deleted.

    My Recuva trick for restoring deleted data doesn’t work all the time. Recuva itself doesn’t work all the time, even in the best circumstances (particularly on solid state drives). This isn’t one of those best circumstances.

    Note the strategic timing of the announcement. Microsoft has known about this bug since October 2. I reported on it, along with a workaround that works most of the time, on October 4. They waited until early Saturday morning, October 6, to acknowledge the problem and pull the plug.

    Anybody who tells you to install patches immediately should be drawn and quartered.

    If that helped, take a second to support AskWoody on Patreon

    Home Forums Microsoft yanks the Win10 1809 upgrade

    This topic contains 83 replies, has 29 voices, and was last updated by  Sueska 1 week, 3 days ago.

    • Author
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    • #222177 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      In the past few hours — very early Saturday morning US time — Microsoft pulled the Win10 version 1809 upgrade package. Details are sparse (yawn, as
      [See the full post at: Microsoft yanks the Win10 1809 upgrade]

      7 users thanked author for this post.
    • #222189 Reply

      dph853
      AskWoody Lounger

      I vaguely remember the good ol’ days when updates were an occasion marked by anticipation and sometimes joy kinda like Christmas. These days are now akin to the tax filing deadline or the Challenger disaster. Crash & Burn Windows.

       

      Too bad the only way to get 18 months of solace from bad patches and Microsoft info gathering is to unplug from the internet. I’m pretty sure I have a Windows XP install CD around here somewhere…

      • This reply was modified 1 week, 6 days ago by  dph853.
      6 users thanked author for this post.
      • #222343 Reply

        GoneToPlaid
        AskWoody Lounger

        I too remember those “good ol’ days.” Those days went down the drain, starting in 2014-04-16 with the release of KB2952664, and then with six subsequent botched updates during the rest of 2014 — the same year that Nadella succeeded Steve Balmer as Microsoft’s new CEO. Many of you may recall that one of the first things which Nadella did, after becoming CEO, was to fire Microsoft’s Windows Update Quality Control Team. This was the equivalent of firing everyone in the back rooms who directly supported Mission Control at NASA.

        Starting on 2014-04-16, there are well over five dozen Windows Updates which all Win7 users should have avoided installing, or which they should avoid installing whenever reinstalling Win7.

        Windows Updates has become something like slipping down the side of a mountainside which is littered with rocks and boulders, and with deep ravines. The rocks are botched Windows Updates from which you can recover by uninstalling those botched updates. The boulders are Windows Updates which install deep telemetry. Yet one can recover from the boulders by uninstalling those updates. The deep ravines are some borked Windows Updates which you can not uninstall, and which System Restore will fail in terms of removing the damage caused by those deep ravine updates. The only solutions, in the case of the deep ravine updates, is to either restore from backup or to reinstall Win7. There are no other options in terms of the deep ravine updates.

        Nadella is brilliant, yet it is also clear that he suffers from delusional disorder in the sense that Nadella believes that the only thing which is relevant to Microsoft is the Cloud. It is delusional to put all of one’s eggs in one basket. Any logical person just does not do this! In other words, Nadella has thrown the Windows historical cash cow under the bus, instead of understanding Sinofsky’s delusional failure with Win8 in terms of trying to make Win8 some sort of “adventure” in terms of the “charms” of learning how to use Win8, versus the tried-and-true goals that any new versions of any OS should not require any major learning curve since an OS is just that — something which should always be stable, functional, and in the background.

        Nadella factually has issues with certain classes of people. In fact, Nadella famously said that women should never ask for a raise. So where do you all think that us, the “commoners” who use Windows, stand with Nadella? Are we “commoners” even on his radar? I doubt it.

        3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #222346 Reply

          b
          AskWoody Lounger

          Nadella factually has issues with certain classes of people. In fact, Nadella famously said that women should never ask for a raise.

          He didn’t actually say they shouldn’t:
          “It’s not really about asking for the raise but knowing and having faith that the system will actually give you the right raises as you go along,”
          (More that they shouldn’t need to.)
          After gaffe, Microsoft CEO says he was ‘wrong’ on women’s pay

          And he corrected the impression within a few hours:
          I answered that question completely wrong. Without a doubt I wholeheartedly support programs at Microsoft and in the industry that bring more women into technology and close the pay gap. I believe men and women should get equal pay for equal work. And when it comes to career advice on getting a raise when you think it’s deserved, Maria’s advice was the right advice. If you think you deserve a raise, you should just ask.
          Satya Nadella email to employees

          1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #222181 Reply

      anonymous

      Hi Woody,

      Win 10 home user here. Gullible, idiotic, and a seeker….

      I upgraded to 1809 earlier this week. All seems to have went well. No files missing. Computer functioning fine (thus far).

      My question is what is going to happen on Patch Tuesday?

      Am I, and others who upgraded going to be offered a Cumulative update for 1809? Or God forbid is Microsoft going to “re-upgrade” to a new version of 1809?

      Man, I really I feel bad for the people who lost their files. I am very glad I backup all my files (Two external hard drives).

      Woody, if you ever decide to write a book on Windows 10 Windows Updates for Dummies, you could have a long chapter on “seekers.”

      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #222193 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        We have no way to know for sure what MS will do on Patch Tuesday.
        Hopefully they will release a Cumulative Update to fix all the problems they have caused. And it will be that version that is re-released through Windows Update for those who have not so far upgraded.

        4 users thanked author for this post.
        • #222204 Reply

          anonymous

          If I were you, I would immediately backup all documents and downgrade right away. Big chance it might go wrong at patch Tuesday now. Some big bug is hiding in 1809 for sure. This disaster was about to happen one day, especially since Microsoft goes for quantity instead of quality nowadays. Time to leave the Titanic… :-/

        • #222217 Reply

          anonymous

          That will not hring back lost files

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #222311 Reply

            anonymous

            Years ago, I remember seeing an ad in a print publication for backup tools that included the slogan “no amount of cursing will get your data back”.

      • #222208 Reply

        anonymous

        Went to 1809 without a hitch.  Windows 10 Pro.  Used Windows Update.  No files missing.

        I too feel bad for the people with problems.  Frankly, there is no excuse for people to lose files.

        • #222236 Reply

          GCG1000
          AskWoody Lounger

          Ditto, installed 1809 w/o any problems.  All files are intact.  Win seems to be working correctly.  Sorry for the users who suffered information losses.

      • #222350 Reply

        matt2020
        AskWoody Lounger

        I would turn off Storage Sense and any other features that want to ‘clear up space’ for you.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #222444 Reply

        Susan Bradley
        AskWoody MVP

        If you are on 1809 and see no data loss, stick right there.  The issue is in the updating process, not after you’ve gotten there.

        Susan Bradley Patch Lady

        3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #222196 Reply

      anonymous

      “Anybody who tells you to install patches immediately should be drawn and quartered.”

      Ssshhh Woody, we need the arrow-fodder. 😉

      Edit to remove HTML

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #222206 Reply

        anonymous

        Still: whatever happens it should never affect user docs. This time a very important line was crossed. Windows became the most unreliable operating system in computer history. Mainly because of unlimited pushing against peoples will, combined with no quality control.

        3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #222252 Reply

          anonymous

          Totally agree, but M$ is the near monopoly on this, and therefore does as it pleases, and has done for sometime, unless the the powers that be step-in and issue outrageous-sized fines, we will continue to receive this shoddy excuse for an OS.

      • #222231 Reply

        woody
        Da Boss

        HA! Point well taken….

    • #222202 Reply

      anonymous

      How they keep getting away with this???

    • #222211 Reply

      jescott418
      AskWoody Lounger

      Its to be expected that major upgrades affect a small percentage of devices. That has always been the case over the past versions of Windows. The big problem now is that the frequency of upgrades increasing to twice a year has made this a more frequent event. Because this is hardly a unique event to any OS getting a major revision. You have to wonder why users never learn their lesson and perform backups? They seem eager to get the latest and greatest Windows which in my mind is debatable as a” got to have it now”. But nevertheless if your going to be a final release beta tester for the rest of us. At least do what your supposed to do and back up your stuff. Who in their right mind trusts any OS upgrade to perform perfectly on every device, every time?

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #222219 Reply

        anonymous

        It’s for sure not a small amount, that why it got pulled also

    • #222209 Reply

      anonymous

      I’m pretty sure I have a Windows XP install CD around here somewhere…

      I am running Windows Xp as well. Too much problems with Windows 10.

    • #222227 Reply

      anonymous

      I think a lot of the problem with windows is the hardware being used. It’s not uniform. Everybody who manufactures hardware has a different version of this card or that mother board or something new just out. Just like the rims on a car, you can’t upgrade a chevy rim to a ford. It doesn’t work. Trying to put out an update that one size fits all is just not gonna work.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #222233 Reply

        Microfix
        AskWoody MVP

        @anon #222227, That’s a fair point but, it’s always been the case about different hardware with Windows even it’s previous versions prior to W10. What’s changed is the lack of a QA dept, where everyone who uses Windows is at the mercy of MS and their buggy patches/ upgrades.

        | W8.1 Pro x64 | Linux x64 Hybrids | W7 Pro x64 O/L | XP Pro O/L
          No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT - AE
        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #222347 Reply

        anonymous

        That would be a fair point. If not that also (and notoiriously known) Windows 10 creates huge problems on Microsoft’s own hardware. The terrible troubles with the surface tablets are just an example. So there really is something more going on. They are just way too eager to push upgrades and updates, to control users and to push them in a closed environment. For a desktop system – already on the decline – that’s a death certificate. If the creators of Windows after this disaster still don’t understand why Windows 10 didn’t reach by far the predicted installations (and why Windows 7 is still gong strong) they have a block of concrete in front of their heads. Precisely this situation is what experts are warning for since the introduction of Windows 10. Keeping yourself as a software maker on a tight release schedule every 6 months despite EVERYTHING and any logical sense sooner or later would lead to some form of disaster. That just happened. If they stubbornly keep on going like this, more disasters will unavoidably happen. A child can see that. Maybe finally listen to your users and give up Windows as a service immediately. It’s a dead end road. If you want Windows a service, ceate an OS in the cloud. The time is not there for that to be rolled out on a large scale for everyone (if ever). So wait, just wait. Stop trying to forcedly achieve something over the backs over your users that is impossible to achieve. I really hope someone in Redmont reads this and just thinks about it all… :-/ If nothing changes, the end of Windows will be unavoidable. It’s broken by design now.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #222238 Reply

      dph853
      AskWoody Lounger

      It appears to be much easier to keep malicious code and malware off an older version of Windows than it is to patch or upgrade the OS these days. Which is more vulnerable, a well fortified end of life version of windows or anything labelled Windows 7 – 10 that is receiving patches?

      Even Microsoft’s unilateral retiring of older OS components, protocols and applications can leave one twisting.

      • #222356 Reply

        anonymous

        Maye antivirusscanners should get an option to block unwanted uodates and upgrades. It would make life a lot easier for Windows users. Just a suggestion.

    • #222240 Reply

      anonymous

      Q: What’s the difference between 1809 and ransomware?

      A: With ransomware, you can get your files back.

      4 users thanked author for this post.
    • #222246 Reply

      Carl D
      AskWoody Lounger

      3 days after doing a clean install of 1809 on my main PC – still no problems (fingers crossed). But, if MS releases a new ISO for 1809 in the next week or so then I may consider another clean install when I get the time.

      Old HP laptop wouldn’t upgrade/clean install to 1809 so it is still on 1803 where it will probably stay for the time being.

      Not wanting to make light of an obviously serious situation but I had a chuckle at this post by user ‘tempemeaty’ on The Register site:

      “I felt a great disturbance in the Farce, as if millions of files suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened.”

      Says it all, really… comment of the week, in my opinion.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #222247 Reply

      anonymous

      Whenever Windows 10 (and other MS products) experience a FUBAR event the usual MS behavior has been to ignore the situation for as long as possible. Public releases contain weasel-worded language to minimize the problem by claiming that it only affects a small number of users and that MS is investigating.

      Notwithstanding the usual deflection by referring to “isolated reports”, in this case Microsoft’s decision to pull the plug on the 1809 upgrade instead of doing nothing while it investigates is tantamount to a guilty plea.

      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #222254 Reply

      Francois3000
      AskWoody Lounger

      I have upgraded 6 of my machines thus far + 2 client machines, without 1 problem. As I do IT support, I like to jump in early to experience problems and learning how to fix or avoid them(I am my own guinea pig), and I have full backups done daily.

    • #222266 Reply

      lurks about
      AskWoody Lounger

      “This time the problem is particularly dire, because it’s unclear how Microsoft is going to restore data it deleted.” – Many are likely to have permanently lost their data from this. What I would like to know is how something bad ever got with any cursory QA procedure. This feels like the code was never unit tested to make sure it might work correctly before release.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #222384 Reply

        BobbyB
        AskWoody Lounger

        @lurks-about yeah good point I was wondering about that my self, if they have a “Secret” Data recovery weapon I would love to know about it as Data recovery is fraught at the best of times only really effective in about 50-75% of the times in my experience of sufficiently good quality to be used or of use again.
        Or the other premise is, do they know where that Data’s gone? and how long did they know about this fault? and presumably figured out the destination for all that missing data.
        Finally did folks move on and wipe the disk, make other changes try to revert back or render any “Secret” hiding place effectively useless from which to recover the missing Data. Some of us out here cant have a Machine effectively in “Limbo” waiting for M$ to prognosticate and cobble a solution together they have deadlines, work to do and other stuff and a machine “frozen in time” is simply just not on the cards in many instances.

    • #222263 Reply

      anonymous

      This issue sure has made “Rover ate my homework” a popular (and truthful) excuse!

    • #222269 Reply

      geekdom
      AskWoody Lounger

      I’m not looking forward to Patch Tuesday. I can hear the screams from here.

      Group G{ot backup} Win7 · x64 · SP1 · i3-3220 · TestBeta
      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #222273 Reply

      Wazhai
      AskWoody Lounger

      Reports of the missing files after an upgrade exist in the Feedback Hub from at least 3 months ago:

      https://twitter.com/WithinRafael/status/1048473218917363713?s=19

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #222278 Reply

      Barry
      AskWoody Lounger

      I to am a seeker. always have been always will be. I upgraded using the upgrade assistant and lost everything in my pictures folder. Between my back up and one drive I was able to recover most but not all and the then my back up drive failed. go figure.

      2 points

      A. from what I have read it seems that the problem was the upgrade assistant.

      B. i belive one drive is to blame for the data loss. we shall see

      Barry

    • #222281 Reply

      Noel Carboni
      AskWoody MVP

      MS-DEFCON 1 – the right move!

      Even on my Windows 10 test VM, for which I can make or restore a snapshot in seconds, I hadn’t even considered downloading the v1809 software yet.

      -Noel

      4 users thanked author for this post.
    • #222284 Reply

      radosuaf
      AskWoody Lounger

      Is Dona Sarkar still tweeting Insider Program is a huge success?

      MSI H110 PC MATE * Intel Core i5-6402P * 2 x 8 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2133 MHz * Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1050 Ti D5 4G * Samsung 840 EVO 250GB SSD * Western Digital Blue 1TB HDD * Seagate Barracuda 1TB HDD * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer PCI * Windows 10 Pro 1803 64-bit + Windows 10 Mobile 1709 (Lumia 640 LTE)
      • #222286 Reply

        Wazhai
        AskWoody Lounger

        They were too busy trying to turn the Insider program into some local community services group, so they didn’t even have time to tweet about that yet, not to mention concentrate on reading the bug reports in the Feedback Hub.

      • #222295 Reply

        Noel Carboni
        AskWoody MVP

        Twitter.com is completely blocked from my network. Might as well not even exist, and my household’s better for it.

        TwitterYeahRight

        Regarding Ms. Sarkar, don’t I recall she is quite fond of using the word “hustling” w/regard to the insider program?

        Google search link

        Am I the only one who sees the meaning of that word?

        -Noel

        Attachments:
        You must be logged in to view attached files.
        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #222303 Reply

        anonymous

        Microsoft Has A Software Quality Problem – absolutely spot on. IOW, getting “feedback” from millions of “testers” is completely useless, with legit reports of serious issues invisible due to all the useless noise.

        This bug has been reported 3 months ago. By several “insiders”.

        • #222479 Reply

          Ascaris
          AskWoody MVP

          It is hard to believe that a company as large and experienced at software design as Microsoft would let the reports of data loss get buried among the fluff.  Back in the earlier days of Firefox, I reported several bugs to Mozilla using their Bugzilla system, and I remember distinctly that a dataloss bug was marked as such, and the bug was elevated to the highest level of severity.  A confirmed dataloss bug, even one that had affected few people, would be a blocker for the release of the next version, meaning that no release would be possible until that bug was resolved.  Dataloss bugs were emergencies!

          Even if Microsoft only received a relative handful of reports of data loss, it would be enough for them to move the bug to confirmed status.  Once that happens, the bug should have been triaged in such a way that there was not going to be any such thing as it being lost in the noise.  The public doesn’t get to see the internal MS bug trackers the way they do with open source projects like Firefox, but if MS was doing its job competently, some kind of system would be in place to elevate severe but relatively infrequently encountered (during Insider testing) bugs to the level of importance they deserve.

          It’s just unconscionable that this bug was reported by Insiders and still made it into the wild to mess up people’s actual daily-use PCs.   When you have hundreds of millions of users, even a rare bug is likely to bite hundreds of thousands of them.

          Group L (Linux): KDE Neon User Edition 5.14.1 (based on Ubuntu 18.04) + Windows 7 in Virtualbox VM

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #222574 Reply

            lurks about
            AskWoody Lounger

            As an ex QC manager (not in IT) problems should always be classified by the severity of the issue coupled with the frequency of the issue. Severity should always override frequency. A very severe but rare event should be at the top of the QC queue to be addressed while and common but mild problem is nearer the bottom or at the bottom. But in some quality schemes there is a tendency to blindly use a Pareto diagram (count the occurrences of an issue and solve the one with the most hits first) without considering the severity of the issue itself. The Pareto diagram is simple to implement and requires minimal review of each report. It appears MS is doing something like this, count the hits with no review of the severity of the issue. Thus common but minor issues get fixed while disastrous but relatively rare problems get ignored.

    • #222282 Reply

      anonymous

      As I see it, Microsoft does again what nowadays it excels in. Boring. Revealing. Embarassing.

      Marc

      • #222287 Reply

        Noel Carboni
        AskWoody MVP

        …And leveraging mediocrity like nobody’s business.

        I’m sure they’ll try to turn the file deletion thing into a selling point for OneDrive.

        Sorry, didn’t mean to delete everyone’s files. But hey those who chose, as we suggested, to back their files up to the cloud were able to retain all their data!

        -Noel

        3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #222305 Reply

          NetDef
          AskWoody Lounger

          I was thinking the very same thing.  And they’ve actually been saying this already in reference to their OD for Biz for some time in regards to ransomware attacks.

           

           

        • #222304 Reply

          anonymous

          A certain big name in the Linuxverse once said: “Intelligence is the ability to avoid doing work, yet getting the work done.”

          Windows 10’s motto today is quite different: “Service is to prevent getting work done, but maximising the maintenance needed for getting to that outcome.”

          Marc

          1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #222314 Reply

      anonymous

      I’ve done some poking (although not extensively) among the problem reports, and one impression that I come away with is that the problem may be related to OneDrive.

      I’m only speculating, but it may be that Microsoft presumes that users have Microsoft accounts (and therefore, open access to OneDrive), and then the upgrade process is mirroring files to OneDrive (perhaps as a temporary thing, to be returned after upgrade). The huge flaw in that is that local accounts haven’t been accounted for, and if there’s no connection to OneDrive, then mirroring isn’t happening, and the process that initiates erasure doesn’t bother to confirm whether the content has actually been copied (and without introducing errors in the transfer). I also see indications that data stored in non-standard locations (i.e., outside the normal folders in user profiles) may not be affected.

      To me, it’s incomprehensible that Microsoft could make a mistake that simple (and that consequential), but given how hard they’re pushing Windows as a Service, and integration with cloud-based services, it seems entirely possible that there was no significant testing of how upgrades behave (or if testing was done, results not getting adequate reporting and/or follow-up action) for users that are working from local accounts.

      I haven’t followed reports closely enough to tell, but I wonder what the pattern of successful or problem updates has any corresponding patterns with whether users are using Microsoft IDs or local IDs.

      • #222317 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        Microsof’s Insider Program (the alpha testers) are required to log in with a Microsoft ID. As such, they initially have access to One Drive by default.

        When MS released v1803 initially, not all the Insider settings were reset to the default in the public version. It is not unreasonable that you are right in your thinking.

        However, there have been numerous reports of the data deletion bug being present in the Insider Preview, and MS not doing anything about it. Maybe the same cause – Insiders not using or blocking One Drive use? Who knows. MS will never reveal their findings.

        • #222325 Reply

          Wazhai
          AskWoody Lounger

          Microsof’s Insider Program (the alpha testers) are required to log in with a Microsoft ID. As such, they initially have access to One Drive by default.

          That’s incorrect. It’s possible to be an insider with a local account. You just have to provide an “app account” for the insider settings and you can refuse to convert the local account to a MS account, as usual. But I seriously doubt that many insiders choose to do this.

          • #222376 Reply

            PKCano
            AskWoody MVP

            Hmmm… Is the “app account” a Microsoft account with a Microsoft ID?

      • #222361 Reply

        anonymous

        OneDrive behaves like malware in Windows 10, if you clearly say you don’t want it, Microsoft knows better and pushes this piece of junk time and time again. I don’t like it that a service I will never use in my life is so tightly integrated in an already shabby operating system.

    • #222327 Reply

      anonymous

      Ok. I think we reached the point that as a professional – but also a home user with important / unique files on a computer – you can safely say that Microsoft hit a brick wall with its update/grade schedule. What now? Is this company ignorantly going to keep on upgrading and updating in this pace and basically act if nothing happened? Or will they finally hit the brakes and have some good internal restructuring before any big upgrade is rolled out again? Isn’t it time to take a pause and patch for a year and a half the problems that are still there in the versions that are presently used, while not rolling out new versions with new toe curling blunders in it? And then simply call Windows 1803 the final version of Windows 10, followed after those 1,5 years by Windows 11? In other words: back to normal and back to managable for as well the developers of Windows (who are obviously and understandably not capable of keeping up) as well as the users. To give rest, peace and above quality for everyone? Thank you, that would  be great and what everyone would like. Project ‘Windows as a service’ (whatever that meant anyway) failed, time to recuperate and go back to what is normal for any OS.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #222374 Reply

      GoneToPlaid
      AskWoody Lounger

      Hi Woody,

      Wow. It sure does appear that Microsoft was aware of the issue, based on what you have presented in terms of forensic evidence in your Computerworld news article.

      I quote from your news article:

      “There were many reports of this precise bug during the Win10 1809 beta test. Microsoft was duly informed through the Feedback Hub, and Microsoft responded ‘We’ve got it.'”

      The above quote, if true, speaks volumes about Microsoft’s overriding goal to keep time schedules and commitments, instead of quality. What else is there to say, since this is so blatantly obvious?

      Best regards

      –GTP

      Edit to remove HTML. Please use the “Text” tab in the entry box when you copy/paste.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #222533 Reply

        Noel Carboni
        AskWoody MVP

        I’ve noticed a correlation between the size of the company and the tendency to explain away problems as “people have screwed up computers”.

        It’s true that SOME people have computer problems – let’s be honest, a complex device built from the cheapest possible parts, without error correcting hardware, and possibly maintained badly, might actually lose files on its own. Hardly anyone with any experience at all hasn’t had a disk fail, for example, or a bad RAM.

        But there needs to be a willingness to accept responsibility, rather than continually try to shed it. No doubt there are engineers in Microsoft who really care, but if their management is forcing them to put out software that’s poorly conceived – or just not ready yet – and figures it’s okay to release with a certain level of bugs because they can be managed later, then we have what we see.

        There are some who say the wheels of progress can’t be stopped just to take all the time needed to make things right. Then those same folks inevitably direct their developers to build on top of foundations that haven’t been made solid.

        As a bit of real world experience at my small software company…

        My last customer-reported bug was a case where our software crashed unexpectedly. Our internal instrumentation logged the reason and location, and the customer reported that information with his support request (we don’t do telemetry, we ask customers to approve the sending of information).

        Lo and behold, his ancient ATI display driver, designed for Vista, ported to Windows 7, and now running in Windows 10 to support his circa 2006 ATI 4800 series video card, had crashed while doing a perfectly valid OpenGL operation. We even discerned why: The 32 bit address space was too fragmented and buffers could not be allocated.

        Did we dismiss the problem out of hand because “clearly it was his problem, not ours“? No.

        A. We discussed whether there’s anything we’re doing in our software that increases the likelihood of address space fragmentation.

        B. We researched, on behalf of the customer, ATI’s latest driver release for his system, where we discovered there is no Windows 10 support for that hardware, and there is no newer release of a display driver than the outdated one the customer is running.

        C. We suggested to the customer that he should see if using the available 64 bit edition of the photo editor he is using instead of the 32 bit one would suit his needs.

        D. We even suggested a possible modern graphics card replacement, because today’s least expensive (i.e., retail price at a few tens of dollars) GPUs will run rings around even decent “gamer” cards from 12 years ago.

        E. We suggested that as a workaround, if he can’t or doesn’t want to do any of the above, after doing a lot of image editing he close his photo editor, log out of Windows, then back in and reopen the editor to get a fresh, unfragmented heap.

        While we couldn’t directly “fix the bug” for him, the customer, who had taken the time to send in the support request, was actually happy to get this information back from us, since it implied we know what’s wrong and why it happened, and armed with information he now can make a plan for what to do about it.

        The above analysis and customer response took literally 35 minutes of my time. Because we care and choose to own every problem reported, our quality is now second to none and such reports don’t come in very often – e.g., once every few weeks.

        -Noel

        3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #222576 Reply

          lurks about
          AskWoody Lounger

          Noel, the difference you are reporting is the realization that the user is often not an IT guru and might understand what is going on. But if someone who does understand what is going on steps they will listen to the report if gives them options to ‘solve’ the problem. Especially when the expert takes the time to explain layman terms what is going on. No MS ‘bafflegab’ needed.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #222649 Reply

          anonymous

          The main thing I never understood of Windows 10 is: why the hurry, pressure, of forcidly introducing new features no matter what. Most important is a base functionality that functions as smooth as possible. All the rest is non-vital. Why not – for example – make the user interface a seperate module and update – at wish of the user – those wonderful but useless transparancy-effects, new colors, new animations etc? Such minor things for sure don’t certify for a total reinstall of Windows. I always say: an operating system should be a service to software running on it. Nothing more, nothing less. If the developer of an operating system ads extra’s: great. But they should always be optional. This approach could have saved soooo many troubles… Now we are forced to do risky upgrades for minor and mainly unnecessary features a large part of the user community is not interested in at all. That’s were it goes wrong every time.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #222654 Reply

            Zaphyrus
            AskWoody Lounger

            I think all of the Windows userbase would be happier if  we could control updates like the pro versions  and if Feature updates would be removed.

            at least that is what it would take for me to defend   Windows 10.

            Just someone who don't want Windows to mess with its computer.
    • #222378 Reply

      BobbyB
      AskWoody Lounger

      You know folks if you simply must have the new Version from M$ and I realise there are a few that do. Then really try it out in a VHD or VHDX or even a VM as one or two esteemed MVP’s here @noel-carboni and @ascaris spring to mind as the resident Guru’s on the subject. I prefer VHD(X)’s basically as often the new version moves on elsewhere after testing either to my HDD/SSD or in the real world as a clean install. The last in place upgrade was Win8.1 to Win10 1507 years ago with no data involved or minimal that was backed up, before that it may have been 95/98 days?? Its not often least ways, he says trying to hide his age lol 😉
      Strictly speaking I have done in place upgrades on “Bare bones” no data involved upgrades to fix features i.e. Pet Peeve at the moment Networking, it worked in 1803 but now doesnt in 1809 in an attempt to remedy the issue, unsuccessfully in many cases. But for trusting your “pride and Joy” and all your data well that’s an emphatic “Nope!!!”
      The good thing is about VM’s, VHD’s they are reasonably portable, they involve no partitioning and fairly quick to set up. VHDX’s takes literally about 10 secs to create, including initialisation, making active and entering the parameter’s etc can be done from inside Windows in the Disk partition page or from the CMD line with a USB/CD/DVD install and we are not talking a huge CMD line strings either. Anyways just a thought or something to consider when the next 6 monthly maelstrom comes around, pity really I had fairly high hopes for this version, oh its fine for me as its a clean install on a VHDX away from my Data.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #222562 Reply

        Noel Carboni
        AskWoody MVP

        Thanks for bringing up virtualization. Virtual machines can help with many things, not least of which is evaluating new OS versions.

        A computer made in the last 5 years, especially if overprovisioned a bit with higher-end hardware, can probably support running a virtual machine.

        I’m quite fond of VMware Workstation myself. I consider it a few hundred dollars well-spent, and I would certainly have had to buy more hardware if I weren’t able to boot up, in half a minute, a virtual machine running any given version of Windows for testing.

        Perhaps VMware’s greatest feature is an ability to save and restore virtual machine snapshots. It’s easy to manage a whole bank of successive snapshots and restore one literally in seconds (bearing in mind that my I/O hardware is very fast).

        ScreenGrab_NoelC4_2018_10_07_093400

        There’s nothing like trying to actually use an OS to get to know it, and virtualization allows that without actually committing to something that’s difficult to get back from on your hardware.

        ScreenGrab_NoelC4_2018_10_07_093921

        -Noel

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        • #222609 Reply

          BobbyB
          AskWoody Lounger

          @noel-carboni yeah virtualisation is definitely the way to go with the current M$ situation, none of the perils of yesteryear that partitioning used to have although its painless these days and with the advent of mostly larger disks users may want to consider a couple of options either setting a partition aside of say about 100GB for testing or a beginners Virtualisation package such as Virtual Box free as the wind and relatively simple to set up, although not top of the line such as VMware or Parallels but it’ll get the job done with out too much trauma. You touched on Snapshots the real beauty of Virtualisation its a sweet deal way better for rolling back to happier times, more relevance just lately with what’s emerging down the update chute from Redmond. I dabbled years ago with Hyper-V free again to users Wins 8.1 10 Pro and above, however not every machine has the V+ (ed: and I believe applies for Virtual Box as well for x64) setting in the Bios to make that a viable option for X64 (amd64 64bit) I believe its got a whole lot easier though than the old set up with the advent of the new improved “Wizards” (Seemingly Windows has more Wizards than Harry Potter lol 😉 )
          When I am done with the VHD and I want keep it as a permanent feature I export it to a Partition typically about 10-15 mins, say for example C:\ its format the C:\ drive, taking care to leave the 3 system partitions in place and then as simple as typing BCDBOOT C:\WINDOWS (but only if it doesent boot for the first time which seldom happens) and your off to the races, Job done. As I have Win7 Pro and Win8.1 Pro on here as well in their own partitions its a breeze using a 3rd Party Util such as Aomei or Partition Magic there’s lots of free reputable ones out there. With Win’s 7 and 8.1 you can easily image them using Sysprep and capture if you’ve got the winning combination you want to keep but as they seldom go wrong you spend a lot of time really only just for peace of mind and of course should disaster strike.
          There’s lots of virtualisation options for folks out there and with this latest “Data crunching/chomping” episode its time folks took a second look at virtualisation and with this little free utility VHD Attach by Josep Medvadip of MIT Boot time attachment as a partition would show is now done automatically and painlessly without having to manually attach so that little niggle is successfully put to bed 🙂

          • This reply was modified 1 week, 4 days ago by  BobbyB.
    • #222397 Reply

      ch100
      AskWoody MVP

      We have paused the rollout of the Windows 10 October 2018 Update (version 1809) for all users as we investigate isolated reports of users missing some files after updating.

      I personally found that the Adobe Flash files and the related registry keys are missing, although it looks like Flash 32-bit acts as if it is installed on the system. I am not sure if this is a new implementation of Adobe Flash in Windows 1809 or it is related to the missing files. I found the same on an upgrade, but on a clean install too. Not the same thing on the server equivalent 2019 where the files and registry settings are in their expected location. But Server 2019 is more like the LTSB LTSC version of 1809 which I haven’t tried.
      For those who missed it, here is how Adobe Flash can be removed correctly and completely from Windows 10 and 8.1
      https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/how-to-remove-the-built-in-version-of-flash-in-win10-and-8-1/

      • This reply was modified 1 week, 5 days ago by  ch100.
      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #222405 Reply

      ch100
      AskWoody MVP

      I can confirm that it was expired from WSUS too.
      I can see expired:

      Windows 7 and 8.1 upgrade to Windows 10, version 1809
      Feature update to Windows 10 (consumer editions)
      Feature update to Windows 10 (business editions)

      which in other words means all upgrade versions.
      The Feature update to Windows 10 files can be used for clean install after minor processing with tools published elsewhere to convert ESD to ISO.
      However, the clean installations are likely to be less affected, as one could assume that there are no personal files to be deleted on the system when performing a clean install.

      • This reply was modified 1 week, 5 days ago by  ch100.
      3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #222412 Reply

      anonymous

      It is increasingly clear that Microsoft does not now, and has not (since the release of vista) given a d**n about users of their products. If you are long and strong enough you can afford to buy “concern” from Microsoft in the form of various support contracts.

      But, that does not improve the quality or security of their products.

      The largest installed base of Windows 10 is personal computers and devices. Very few of those users can afford support, and lack the knowledge or patience of those who maintain and administer business/corporate systems; they struggle with the concept of virtual machines. In other words, they are the suckers that P.T. Barnum referred to, and are not capable of dealing with the plethora of bugs, failures, and disasters that Windows 10 has become. In simple terms, they are collectively overwhelmed.

      Microsoft’s response has been a shrug, “Yeah? So?” (insert the sound of a herd of crickets in a vacuum). Microsoft does not care, they don’t have to.

      Any operating system should be just that. If any specific user needs Candy Crush Soda then they can install it. It should only require security fixes and bug patches, when they arise, not on a schedule, and not all wadded up into a single humongous cumulative olio that is (probably by intent) impossible to effectively and reliably troubleshoot.

      We were all told that Windows 10 was free. Which, “…from a certain point of view, is true…” Microsoft’s profit comes from all of the user data that it collects, and sells. The telemetry is massive, complete, and integral to Windows. It cannot be entirely turned off.

      A user can’t easily block updates, and adherence to only accepting security updates is no protection, as a failed security update is frequently fixed, but is only available as part of the next cumulative update which of course includes all of the schlock that the user is trying to avoid.

      The only solution is to stop using Windows. As I mentioned earlier, an operating system should be just that. A user should never have to interact with the OS, other than to sign in and launch applications.  When features, tools and programs begin to be embedded the OS becomes bloatware, and now requires more effort and knowledge to maintain. Like a vehicle, the user just wants to start it up and go somewhere.

      Linux is not the solution, but it could be part of one. There are multiple user interfaces available, which should be the only interaction with an OS. There are many apps and programs that will accomplish nearly all tasks required, with the exception of most games. Setting up a dual boot Linux/Windows system is not beyond the capability of most users, they just need clear concise and easily understood directions to do so.

      Bellyaching, b***ing, and whining will accomplish nothing. Only a noticeable and significant move away from all things Windows will get Microsoft’s attention. Whether it changes any is unknown, but we all must fight the good fight. No one else will.

       

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #222477 Reply

        Noel Carboni
        AskWoody MVP

        The only solution is to stop using Windows.

        Seems like a fair number have actually stopped getting new versions, given the stats that show that usage of Windows 7 isn’t falling off. Personally, I’m still rockin’ 8.1 and 7 on my two hardware systems myself, and rather enjoying their lack of Windows 10-ness.. 🙂

        Microsoft lost me as a customer when they decided I needed to pay twice for Windows 8.1 after offering me a free upgrade to Media Center Edition that installed then just botched my license. After that, zero additional money has made it from me to Microsoft.

        I probably built one of the wings of the Redmond campus for all the dollars I spent in the last 40 years, or influenced to be spent by the companies I’ve been at.

        I made a pact with myself that I would actually buy Windows 10 and become a customer again if they actually made it worth buying. Hasn’t happened yet. Hint, Microsoft: Bloating it further and making it more intrusive isn’t the way… Higher quality, better features will do it.

        -Noel

    • #222450 Reply

      Chronocidal Guy
      AskWoody Lounger

      I think a lot of the problem with windows is the hardware being used. It’s not uniform. Everybody who manufactures hardware has a different version of this card or that mother board or something new just out. Just like the rims on a car, you can’t upgrade a chevy rim to a ford. It doesn’t work. Trying to put out an update that one size fits all is just not gonna work.

      I forget who I was discussing this very issue with some time ago, but I think some of Microsoft’s issues boil down to them trying to mimic Apple, while having none of the control over the hardware infrastructure that allows Apple’s approach to be successful.

      They’re approaching the Windows update process as if they have even an inkling of the vast myriad of unique hardware combinations that exist in the PC environment.  The “insiders” were supposed to be able to mitigate that, but how many people who put their own blood sweat and tears into a custom built CPU are going to throw it to the dogs by testing new updates on it?  How many dedicated render farms, gaming rigs, and number crunching boxes are ever going to be subjected to new patches to make sure they don’t explode?  The PCs that may be at the highest risk of a catastrophic failure due to a botched update might also be the ones that will never get tested before it’s shoved down their throat.

      In the past, Windows versions were built to a standard that would work across a broad range of modern hardware, and then there was time for hardware manufacturers to adjust, and upgrade their products on that new baseline over the life of the OS.  That doesn’t happen anymore, because MS is ripping out the foundation every 6 months, and leaving all the hardware developers reeling as they try to adjust to all the things that MS felt like changing.

      Microsoft does not remotely possess the time, resources, or dedication to test every conceivable hardware configuration that they are pushing Windows 10 into.  They can’t even get Windows 10 compatible with their own in-house hardware, for crying out loud.  I’d be astonished if they can even test on 1% of the configurations that they are bound and determined to stuff full of their latest and greatest OS.  It’s a process that’s been doomed to fail from the start.

      With all the language thrown about in recent times about how it’s your responsibility to stay patched, and it’s up to you to stop the spread of malware, the rhetoric is starting to sound a lot more like how you’re required to vaccinate your children before they’re allowed into public school.  And that’s what Windows Update feels like now, a mandatory vaccine against.. whatever the latest threat is.  That’s all well and good, but what’s the acceptable loss rate for PCs that have a fatal allergic reaction to the vaccine?

      I really hope this disaster comes back to bite Microsoft’s hind end clean off.  Something has to knock some sense into them, and I just hope it doesn’t take anything more serious than this to do the trick.

      • #222457 Reply

        anonymous

        Still, the present situation didn’t find it roots in hardware. Even that would be solvable. A problem related to hardware is solvable by an updated driver. Nowadays, the hardware – despite the fact it might not look like that at first sight, is more standardized (and relatively limited) then ever before in the history of Windows. What was the cause once again was simply arrogance. The ‘we know what is good for you’-attitude. The pushing of hardly tested updates and upgrades. Using home users as guinee pigs. Sneakily changing users privacy settings every time again. Pushing apps no one needs nor wants. Injecting advertisements. Forcing people to use Windows as Microsoft wants it. Think Edge, the browser debacle for example. In short: the problems stem from an ununderstandable company policy. The ‘milking out’ of users. Somehow, they keep getting away with it. But for how long? This bug was clearly one step to far. Even if it turns out it was just a quirk, an unlucky interaction between a buggy OneDrive and something deep inside the installer: this should never have happened. Right now is the time for crisis management at Microsoft. If they don’t change headings in a drastic way, it will be done soon for Windows 10. If not already too late. As a company, you don’t want this c*** on your systems. As a home user neither. That’s the message they must read in all those complaints. Not only the ones presently outed, but the ones outed since the intro of 10. If they don’t listen it’s over soon.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #222476 Reply

          Chronocidal Guy
          AskWoody Lounger

          The fun thing though.. we honestly do not know that this was not hardware related.  As far as I know, there’s been no definite answer on what caused this.  All signs point to someone screwing up a bit of software, but what if the glitch was caused by a particular device driver for a particular piece of hardware?

          I’ve seen screwy database management produce events and bugs that literally should not be possible, because the cause and effect appeared completely unrelated.  Imagine walking outside to your front yard, punching your mailbox, and it sets your car on fire.  It’s what happens when code gets shoved through development so fast: it turns into a mess of spaghetti, and there’s no way limited beta testing is going to discover all the catastrophic corner case landmines the software is hiding.

          • #222522 Reply

            anonymous

            True, but I meant this  more as a general observation.

    • #222528 Reply

      Carl D
      AskWoody Lounger

      If you are on 1809 and see no data loss, stick right there. The issue is in the updating process, not after you’ve gotten there.

      Thanks, Susan.

      Looks like I was never in danger of losing anything during the 1809 install because all of my files are on a second solid state drive which I always unplug when installing Windows (any version).

      I do this to prevent the Windows boot files ending up on the wrong partition/drive which seems to happen quite a lot from what I’ve heard over the years if you have more than one drive and you don’t unplug all except the one Windows is being installed on.

      • #222560 Reply

        Noel Carboni
        AskWoody MVP

        There are a lot of good cases to be made for doing things “an atypical way”. In your case you’ve chosen to take control of where your data is stored, vs. just putting it in the folders (e.g., “My Documents”) Microsoft prescribes for the task.

        There’s nothing wrong with doing so, and in fact it can exempt you from the kinds of problems like this one where doing things “the typical way” leads to the operating system losing your files.

        Microsoft, it seems, would like us to lose sight of the “geeky” parts of using an operating system and “just let them handle things”. That – and this whole “…as a service” idea – might be more viable if they didn’t have butterfingers.

        -Noel

    • #222581 Reply

      Cybertooth
      AskWoody Lounger

      A question for you, @woody:

      In your CW post, at the end you provide a number of links to reports of this bug that showed up in the Feedback Hub. However, clicking on any of those links leads to a page that says:

      This content is available only in the FeedbackHub app through the Windows 10.

      But you did post the links, so there must be some other way to reach them? Otherwise I can’t imagine what the use might be of posting the links.

      P.S. It really does say “through the Windows 10″ and not “through Windows 10.”

       

      • This reply was modified 1 week, 4 days ago by  Cybertooth.
      • #222584 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        They are probably only available if you log in with an Insider ID.

        • #222626 Reply

          anonymous

          Actually, it has to be accessed through Windows 10 even if you are a Windows Insider with a valid Windows ID because I am and it will only allow me to access the Feedback Hub through Windows 10.

    • #222586 Reply

      anonymous

      At this point, anti-virus programs and security experts should start classifying Windows Updates as a form of malware. Whereas before they strongly urged enabling automatic update to get those security patches in — here it seems like, if you patch Windows, you’re installing malware onto your computer.

      Signs that maybe other operating systems are the future and Windows is something to be banished to the history books and the digital archives.

    • #222594 Reply

      Microfix
      AskWoody MVP

      MS-DEFCON-1
      Need I say more..

      | W8.1 Pro x64 | Linux x64 Hybrids | W7 Pro x64 O/L | XP Pro O/L
        No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT - AE
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    • #222668 Reply

      g3b
      AskWoody Lounger

      I am curious I would like to know if the version 1803 is now available again since 1809 was pulled due to bug issues? On the official windows site.

      I d/l an ISO file a few weeks ago to use with the rufus boot tool. Has anyone used that to do a clean install?

      Thanks for your replies,

      g3g51

      • #222680 Reply

        BobbyB
        AskWoody Lounger

        @g3b as of 0220am MST it looks like its back to 1803 on the Win !0 web site so if that’s what you need you may want to “hussle”: https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/software-download/windows10. As for doing a clean install sure it works fine just select make .ISO for another Machine, read the M$ settings i.e. if you need something else don’t use the M$ settings but for using Rufus you, ideally need to create an .ISO for use on another machine its all fairly self explanatory.

        • This reply was modified 1 week, 4 days ago by  BobbyB.
        1 user thanked author for this post.
        g3b
    • #222833 Reply

      EP
      AskWoody Lounger

      woody & Susan, check out this article from the Thurrott.com web site titled “Microsoft Has A Software Quality Problem”
      https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/187407/microsoft-has-a-software-quality-problem

      it was posted a few days ago

      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #222850 Reply

        woody
        Da Boss

        Yep. Mehedi’s right, of course. The question is (1) Can Microsoft fix it? and (2) Will Microsoft fix it?

      • #222859 Reply

        Microfix
        AskWoody MVP

        And that highlights a fundamental problem with Microsoft’s testing process for Windows.

        Obviously no-one investigates the lower percentage of issues, which mean bugs get through.

        the Feedback Hub simply isn’t capable of dealing with issues from millions of users, especially when the app is mostly used by fans to provide feedback

        Therein lays the problem, a feedback hierarchy/ prism is required to slow the process down and evaluate every issue, meaning longer release cycles 🙂

        Quotes extracted from the article: https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/187407/microsoft-has-a-software-quality-problem

        | W8.1 Pro x64 | Linux x64 Hybrids | W7 Pro x64 O/L | XP Pro O/L
          No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT - AE
        2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #222857 Reply

      BobbyB
      AskWoody Lounger

      “Because these issues aren’t widespread, most of these reports from Insiders had low levels of upvotes, ranging from 3-10. That means Microsoft likely never even noticed these reports from Insiders”

      Thx @ep for posting that and from the article above that quote, So does that mean Bug’s and Major Show Stoppers in the Insider Programme are actually voted on in some kind of convoluted FaceBook style popularity contest as to determine whether they warrant attention or not?
      Presumably that’s where M$’s much vaunted AI comes in, not so much Artificial Intelligence more like whatever gets the most Votes gets fixed. Sure would account for a lot.
      Unbelievable!!!!

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #222893 Reply

        Sueska
        AskWoody Lounger

        Good point @bobbyb. I am an insider and sometimes I will just give a thumbs up without comment to the Feedback hub. For example if the post states please do not deprecate a certain program, I think a thumbs up is appropriate for “I agree”. If there is an issue or problem however, I only give a thumbs up if I am having the same issue. Generally I would comment with supporting information. As an insider, my understanding is that you should always search to see if what you want to post is already posted.
        Until your comment, it never occurred to me that upvotes could be for popularity or to get attention for the issue (and not necessarily the number of insiders having the issue). Searching for “missing files” for my build (1809) I found a post titled something like “After the upgrade I am missing some files” with 147 upvotes. Oddly this post only had 3 comments. Perhaps this was a grouping of posts combined by microsoft. Some individual posts describing missing files were categorized under file and folders and other individual posts were categorized under an update category. If you searched for “deleted files” you get another set of posts.
        The feedback hub could use revisions. Similar posts fall under several different categories. Sometimes it is not easy to find an issue already posted because of the terms or category that is was posted under.
        A simple improvement for the Feedback Hub would be to have two ratings. Thumbs up for “I Agree” and a separate button/link for “I have this problem too”

    Please follow the -Lounge Rules- no personal attacks, no swearing, and politics/religion are relegated to the Rants forum.

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