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  • Patch Alert: Where we stand with the October patches

    Posted on October 17th, 2018 at 09:25 woody Comment on the AskWoody Lounge

    It ain’t pretty, lemme tell ya.

    Information on Computerworld.Woody on Windows.

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    Home Forums Patch Alert: Where we stand with the October patches

    This topic contains 47 replies, has 25 voices, and was last updated by  OscarCP 3 weeks, 5 days ago.

    • Author
      Posts
    • #225249 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      It ain’t pretty, lemme tell ya. Post coming in Computerworld.
      [See the full post at: Patch Alert: Where we stand with the October patches]

    • #225276 Reply

      Wazhai
      AskWoody Lounger

      If I may ask, why can’t this and many other previous blog posts wait until the actual article is up, with some real content rather than two sentences? It has been more than three hours since this appeared and the upcoming post is still not there. If it isn’t clear, I think a lot of us would appreciate it if a “notification” on AskWoody about an article were posted only after said article is available.

      4 users thanked author for this post.
      • #225277 Reply

        Chris B
        AskWoody Lounger

        It’s up now.

        Chris

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #225278 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        It’s a chicken/egg situation. Woody has to create the post first so he will have the link to put at the bottom of the article on ComputerWorld. But he has no control over when the article is published there. Watch to see when the link on AskWoody goes live – as soon as the article is up on ComputerWorld we will add the link to it.

        10 users thanked author for this post.
      • #225304 Reply

        woody
        Da Boss

        … and in this case, I submitted it before jumping in a car, for a five hour road trip.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #225411 Reply

          Jan K.
          AskWoody Lounger

          You’re not taking The Patch Lady’s “Days of Paranoia” a bit too far? 😀

    • #225282 Reply

      anonymous

      ? says:

      “…new stage of enlightenment,” = something, anything other than Windows?

    • #225289 Reply

      Microfix
      AskWoody MVP

      eweek

      | W8.1 Pro x64 | Linux x64 Hybrids | W7 Pro x64 O/L | XP Pro O/L
        No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT - AE
      Attachments:
      You must be logged in to view attached files.
      3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #225377 Reply

        geekdom
        AskWoody Lounger

        As per your posted picture, what is “Y– N–“?

        Group G{ot backup} Win7 · x64 · SP1 · i3-3220 · TestBeta
        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #225378 Reply

          Microfix
          AskWoody MVP

          ewok celebration song name at the end of ‘Return of the Jedi’ 3rd movie in the 1st Star Wars trilogy.

          | W8.1 Pro x64 | Linux x64 Hybrids | W7 Pro x64 O/L | XP Pro O/L
            No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT - AE
          1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #225292 Reply

      anonymous

      Another masterpiece bug in 1809:

      1. Event
      If you configure a roaming user profile using an environment variable such as% USERNAME% on the RS 5 terminal, the roaming user profile can not be used.

      2. Cause
      Environment variables such as% USERNAME% are not changed to a user name such as testuser but are recognized as a string of %USERNAME%.

      (Source: TechNet blog)

      3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #225297 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        Google translation of TechNet blog from Japanese:

        About roaming user profile problem in Windows 10 RS 5 (1809)

        Hello. It is Yazawa of the Windows support team.
        Since problems of roaming user profiles in Windows 10 RS 5 (1809) have been reported, we will inform you on this blog.

        1. Event
        If you configure a roaming user profile using an environment variable such as% USERNAME% on the RS 5 terminal, the roaming user profile can not be used.

        2. Cause
        Environment variables such as% USERNAME% are not changed to a user name such as testuser but are recognized as a string of% USERNAME%.

        3. Workaround
        There is no workaround when moving user profile is set in group policy.
        If you set it directly to the property of the user object in Active Directory, you can avoid it by directly entering the real user name and real server name without using the environment variable.
        If the number of users is large, please set the properties in the following sample script.

        do / f “delims =”% i in (‘dsquery user’ ‘) do dsmod user% i -profile

        Example) When changing the path of roaming profile of users under the test OU in the test.local domain at once
        ‘dsmod user% i -profile \\ FILESVR \ profile \ $ username $ for $ / f “delims =”% i in (‘ dsquery user “OU = test, DC = test, DC = local”

        4. Measures
        Microsoft recognizes that this event is a serious problem and we are working on fixing this defect with a higher priority.
        We will inform you again within this blog as soon as the fix release date is decided.

        3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #225305 Reply

        Mr. Natural
        AskWoody Lounger

        I used to do roaming profiles. A big pain and glad I did away with all of that. Nice reporting and maybe PKCano can reply a little quicker next time.  🙂  (Nice work both of you.)

        /threadjack

    • #225303 Reply

      jescott418
      AskWoody Lounger

      Microsoft should release one upgrade a year at the most. Then spend the next six months tweaking and fixing bugs. So we at least have six month of relative stability.

      7 users thanked author for this post.
      • #225310 Reply

        Seff
        AskWoody Lounger

        I think it would be sensible if they adopted a policy across all Windows versions of holding back all updates for annual or possibly 6 monthly release, except for e.g. Zero Day hotfixes. They could give such updates a special name – perhaps something like, oh I don’t know, how about say “Service Packs”? This would allow users to have some respite from the usual monthly shenanigans while affording Microsoft sufficient time to do some actual pre-release testing.

        While they’re at it, they could also announce now an extension of support for Windows 7 beyond January 2020, perhaps to bring it in line with Windows 8.1. It’s not like Windows 10 is in anything like a stable enough condition to make it likely that most remaining Windows 7 users will upgrade in the next 15 months. Microsoft might just as well bite that particular bullet and acknowledge the reality of the situation now.

        3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #225408 Reply

        anonymous

        Even better microsoft should release downgrade with every Version Build  Upgrade, so we can always rollback if we get infected by nasty patchware like windows build 1803 :O

    • #225306 Reply

      anonymous

      WINDOWS 8.1 IS THE MOST STABLE VERSION OF WINDOWS!

      Thank you.

      3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #225317 Reply

        Bluetrix
        AskWoody Lounger

        WINDOWS 8.1 IS THE MOST STABLE VERSION OF WINDOWS!

        I’m gonna disagree.
        The most stable version of windows is any version of windows on a laptop turned off, battery removed and stored on the top shelf way in the back of your closet. Please pay attention to the warning label that says: DO NOT OPEN … EVER

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #225309 Reply

      Demeter
      AskWoody Lounger

      Just read the ComputerWorld article. Aaaargh! All the more reason to leave Update settings at “Never…” until Woody gives the go ahead. Win 7 Pro, SP1 Grp. A (mostly) i7-core Haswell

      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #225318 Reply

      Rick59
      AskWoody Lounger

      Windows OS just requires too much “hand holding”.  An operating system should just allow you to accomplish the tasks you want without needing constant attention.

      Chrome OS can do 99% of what I want without the constant headaches. Interesting how you don’t seem to hear about the Windows issues on mainstream media. Deliberate? Don’t want to spook the shareholders?

      4 users thanked author for this post.
      • #225451 Reply

        lurks about
        AskWoody Lounger

        Do not know why the general media does not cover MS’ follies as they do have a significant impact on people. But the general media is not interested in stories were they actually have to work and there is blood and gore. So explaining the follies would require your average not very bright reporter to actually work without any blood or gore to spice things up.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #225321 Reply

      GreatAndPowerfulTech
      AskWoody Lounger

      I really appreciate all of Woody’s posts. He does a nice job of expressing Windows rage with humor.

      GreatAndPowerfulTech

      7 users thanked author for this post.
    • #225322 Reply

      Chronocidal Guy
      AskWoody Lounger

      I think it would be sensible if they adopted a policy across all Windows versions of holding back all updates for annual or possibly 6 monthly release, except for e.g. Zero Day hotfixes. They could give such updates a special name – perhaps something like, oh I don’t know, how about say “Service Packs”? This would allow users to have some respite from the usual monthly shenanigans while affording Microsoft sufficient time to do some actual pre-release testing. While they’re at it, they could also announce now an extension of support for Windows 7 beyond January 2020, perhaps to bring it in line with Windows 8.1. It’s not like Windows 10 is in anything like a stable enough condition to make it likely that most remaining Windows 7 users will upgrade in the next 15 months. Microsoft might just as well bite that particular bullet and acknowledge the reality of the situation now.

      Only problem with that is that if they don’t shove the latest and greatest build into all the home users’ PCs, they don’t do any testing, or so it would seem.  At the very least, their in-house testing procedures appear to be astoundingly insufficient.  The fact that the insiders’ reports of the data deletion bug were entirely lost upon MS leads me to believe that they never tested it enough to ever witness the issue themselves.

      I’m not quite sure which is worse to imagine.. the idea that they just didn’t do any testing at all, or that their programmers literally never considered that people might actually keep files in a non-standard location.

      I’m all for zero-day patching for massive vulnerabilities, but nothing in recent memory has actually seemed more threatening to my computer’s functionality than Windows Update.

      People have door locks, alarms, and security systems to keep burglars out, but an incompetent or malicious repairman that you willingly grant access to your home is an entirely different type of danger.

      3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #225323 Reply

      anonymous

      Things will be even more fun when Microsoft releases the automatic troubleshooting feature next year (https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2018/10/17/announcing-windows-10-insider-preview-build-18262). Rest assured, if you don’t break it, Microsoft will help you.

      3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #225325 Reply

        anonymous

        The blog post says the auto troubleshooter setting is greyed out right now. I suppose they still need to code in the “We couldn’t identify the problem” message!

      • #225413 Reply

        Jan K.
        AskWoody Lounger

        Seing what HI has brought us so far, for sure AI can’t be any worse!

    • #225331 Reply

      alpha128
      AskWoody Lounger

      My employer pushed four October updates to my Windows 7 workstation last night as I was getting ready to leave.  Unfortunately they did not push KB3177467 separately.  So, after the reboot, the configuration percent complete went from 35% to 100% and then essentially went back to 0%.  I let Windows Update run overnight and fifteen hours later my computer was still stuck on “Configuring Windows Updates, Please Wait”. After consulting with the on-site PC Tech, I plugged the plug on the computer, even though the screen specifically said not to.

      But there were no ill effects, and once I was able to get in, I was able to determine what got installed. Bottom line there’s a reason why Microsoft has set KB3177467 to be an “exclusive” update.

      • #225389 Reply

        anonymous

        You are incredibly lucky not to have experienced any ill effects from killing a computer that’s stuck on installing updates.

        Every time I’ve tried to push the power button on a computer that’s in the midst of installing updates it becomes unstable and/or really really slow, and the only way to save my skins is to use System Restore and restore a restore point made before the update.

        Windows is a volatile place.

        • #225450 Reply

          alpha128
          AskWoody Lounger

          You are incredibly lucky not to have experienced any ill effects from killing a computer that’s stuck on installing updates. Every time I’ve tried to push the power button on a computer that’s in the midst of installing updates it becomes unstable and/or really really slow, and the only way to save my skins is to use System Restore and restore a restore point made before the update. Windows is a volatile place.

          It was not really installing updates. A check of the event viewer showed it successfully installed all of the updates at 5:47 PM. I killed it at about 9:25 AM the following day.

      • #225404 Reply

        GoneToPlaid
        AskWoody Lounger

        That is the Stage 3 of 3 hang. I recall mention somewhere that KB3177467 was baked into the October rollup even though this update is an exclusive update??? If true, maybe this is why the October rollup is now unchecked.

        Next time if Windows just sits there on the configuring updates screen and your computer’s hard drive light shows no activity for at least five minutes, other than the ever so brief blinking of the light once a second, try typing ctrl-alt-delete. This should kick start the installation of the subsequent queued update after the hung update. If that doesn’t work and you are still seeing the hard drive light blinking once a second yet no other activity, use the computer’s power button to either power off or restart the computer. Never actually pull the plug.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #225453 Reply

          alpha128
          AskWoody Lounger

          That is the Stage 3 of 3 hang. I recall mention somewhere that KB3177467 was baked into the October rollup even though this update is an exclusive update??? If true, maybe this is why the October rollup is now unchecked.

          Next time if Windows just sits there on the configuring updates screen and your computer’s hard drive light shows no activity for at least five minutes, other than the ever so brief blinking of the light once a second, try typing ctrl-alt-delete. This should kick start the installation of the subsequent queued update after the hung update. If that doesn’t work and you are still seeing the hard drive light blinking once a second yet no other activity, use the computer’s power button to either power off or restart the computer. Never actually pull the plug.

          I don’t think KB3177467 is baked into the October rollup. I think KB3177467 became a prerequisite of the October rollup.

          At the time I killed the computer the hard drive had long finished it’s activity. Afterwards, I rebooted into safe mode and then kicked off a CHKDSK. It just cleaned up a few unused index entries and security descriptors; there were no real problems to speak off.

          I’ll try ctrl-alt-delete or the power button next time.

        • #225454 Reply

          PKCano
          AskWoody MVP

          KB3177467 is an exclusive update. It has to be installed separately, not “baked into” the Rollup. In Win10, the SSU is bundled (not baked into) the Cumulative Update. It does not show up in the Windows Update queue, but the update mechanism automatically installs it first, then the CU. (Not talking about manual installation here. The person doing manual installation is responsible for the sequence then)

          I suspect MS could do the same thing with Win7/Win8.1 if they wanted to. I hope that’s what they are working!

        • #225476 Reply

          DrBonzo
          AskWoody Lounger

          Not that GTP needs corroboration, but if you dig around the support page for KB3177467 you’ll see that hanging on either stage 2 of 3 of stage 3 of 3 is a known issue – at least for v1 – and that the solution is ctrl+alt+del, which should cause the machine to boot.

    • #225338 Reply

      anonymous

      I have the Windows 7 October update now, but only after I hid the Software Removal tool. It seems to be set as an exclusive update, and won’t appear otherwise.

      That does make some sense, forcing you to do the servicing stack update separately if you need it – assuming they can set it where you get that one first.

    • #225343 Reply

      anonymous

      Successful Win 10 Pro 1709 update.  Downloaded KB4339420 SSU update and KB4462918 October 2018 delta update (from 10-6-18) from MS Update Catalog, enabled WU service, installed two KBs, restarted OK.  In Settings/WU/Advanced, changed quality update deferral days to 0, ran WUSH utility and hid unwanted KB4023057, ran Check for Updates to update Office with October KBs.   Reset deferral to 30, disabled WU service.  Machine stable for two days.

    • #225409 Reply

      Jan K.
      AskWoody Lounger

      Patch Alert: Where we stand with the October patches

      It ain’t pretty, lemme tell ya.

      Information on Computerworld.Woody on Windows.

      Hmmm… a simple copy & paste text with only month’s name changed?

      As we’ll probably see the same text in November, December etc. etc. you could save a bit of time by replacing “the October” with “this month’s”! 😀

      3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #225418 Reply

      Chris B
      AskWoody Lounger

      Reflecting on all this, I think we really have not come very far in the last few decades. A very long time ago, Bill Gates opined that, if the motor industry had moved as far as the IT industry, a Rolls Royce would cost £100 and do 1 million miles to the gallon. To that, the GM Vice Chairman replied that their cars do not explode catastrophically once a month, killing all their occupants.

      We really ought to have moved on significantly from that lack of reliability and, while the underlying software has moved forward considerably, the patching and security process has not.  I started on Windows 3.11, and sometimes I feel we have not moved forward very far.  My cars just work, so long as I take them to be serviced as I should, so why don’t my computers? My Android tablet just works, as does my Android phone….

      I just want to get on with my work, and let my wife get on with her work, without having to waste time monitoring for problems the whole time on sites like AskWoody, excellent though it is.

      Oh for the quality standards that have been routine in engineering for a hundred years in the Windows world.

       

      Chris

      • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  Chris B. Reason: formatting
      3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #225431 Reply

      T
      AskWoody Lounger

      My takeaway from this is, yet again, to stay far away from windows 10. The deleting of user’s personal files alone should have cost them millions of customers to go elsewhere. If it means jumping ship to Linux and the headache of getting things to work and sacrificing one’s games then so be it because literally anything has to be better than the toxic dump that is 10.

      3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #225494 Reply

      EP
      AskWoody Lounger

      woody & Susan:

      NEW Win10 updates released 10/17 & 10/18:

      KB4462932 for Win10 v1709

      KB4462939 for Win10 v1703 (yes woody, you CAN install this on your Win10 v1703 computer)

      KB4462928 for Win10 v1607 education, enterprise & LTSB 2016

      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #225516 Reply

        EP
        AskWoody Lounger

        I nearly forgot to mention – new preview rollups for Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 are also available from MS Update Catalog (I couldn’t edit my previous post due to 403 site errors a few hours ago)

        KB4462927 for Win7 SP1

        KB4462921 for Win8.1

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #225558 Reply

        woody
        Da Boss

        I had a feeling MS wasn’t done with 1703 yet.

    • #225831 Reply

      anonymous

      My Win7 SP1 x64 PC, Group B since the beginning of same; use mostly non-M$ browser, software etc.; Haswell chip. Home, SO/HO machine.
      ……
      Following is I think a new one, in these Update follies. Have had KB3177467 V 1 installed since 9/27/2016.
      …..
      Note: I am currently under a BIOS or other similar problem. On boot, my PC “can’t read from disk”; “disk not found”; or similar. Thru several reboots plus Avast Free AV rescue disk and/or Win7 Emerg. Disk, gets the PC to reboot and finally start normally. I ~think~ it may be loose MoBo SATA connection, and/or failing HDD. My solution for that now: Leave the PC on, non-sleep, 24 X 7. Will attempt all that later.
      …..
      Decided to install Group B secur-only, plus IE11, patches today. Why? No show-stopper errors on Ask Woody it looked like; plus want to do it and get it over with.
      …..
      First, installed KB3177467, V 2 for Update stack, as discussed on this board. Install non-remarkable, incl. reboot.
      …..
      Then, tried install of secur-only KB 4462915 X64. Went OK thru desktop install, logoff, Win installer install plus reboot plus installer finish-up. THEN, got error msg “Microsoft-Windows-Servicing,3,None,Package KB4462915 failed to be changed to the Installed state. Status: 0x80004005”
      …..
      Installer itself aborted install, reverted PC to pre- that install state; successfully got onto Win Desktop on reboot. Thank the Lord, System restore took me back to pre-SUS Version 2 install; no longer on my PC.
      …..
      Then, installed secur-only KB4462915, reboot, then successful install of IE 11 kb4462949-x64, reboot, both installs un-remarkable. PC works; able to use Net including hitting Drudge Report and NY Times.
      …..
      Net Troubleshooting error msg. incl 0x80004005: Cannot determine. No clear answers, except probs. in the Update stack. Plus, after removal of that update, plus success install of secur and IE 11 patches, the Vers. 2 Stack update seems clearly the culprit. HTH
      …..
      Side note: For the first time, on this slower Sat. morning over a cup of coffee: I had, I think, my ~first~ serious thought of “Maybe I ought to buy a Mac”. I want easy-to-use and I’ve had work expers. with Macs.
      …..
      I have ~Really~Tried~ for 10 Years, or more, to use Linux on VMs on my PC, to popularize Linux, joined local Linux User groups, posted several times re Linux Mint and other, on this board, and elsewhere. But I have found it extremely hard to learn, even to do simple things like change desktop colors, set up a Samba-shared file to access the base Win PC; etc. Help still leaves much to be desired, for me, incl. some of the websites mentioned on AskWoody posts. Just a thought. Again, HTH.

      • #226640 Reply

        OscarCP
        AskWoody Lounger

        I wonder if more people have had the same problem and if it is because of KB3177467  V.2.

        Any opinions on recommendations on this? Thanks.

         

    • #226024 Reply

      rick41
      AskWoody Lounger

      Ever consider sub-Defcons? At least for 10 vs 7/8/Sever 2008?  As wonderfully helpful as the posts are, sometimes it seems like the single Defcon rating is mixing apples and oranges.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #226294 Reply

        Charlie
        AskWoody Lounger

        I had thought about this idea recently too, but MS always manages to get something wrong with Win 7 and even Win 8.1.  It would, however, be very nice to know which problems are only affecting the so called wonderful, safe-and-secure, still in experimental stage, must have, Windows 10.

        Win 7 Home Premium, x64, Intel i3-2120 3.3GHz, Group B

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #226629 Reply

      anonymous

      Is it the consensus that KB4462923, the W7 Oct monthly rollup has been pulled for good? I have found no official explanation from Microsoft that explains why it has not returned. Did not installing the 2018 SSU fix the issue? Even if you install the SSU, windows update is not re-sending KB4462923. Though it is sending out other updates.

      KB4462927, the latest optional preview sent out by windows update does not state that it replaces KB4462923, but it does state that it contains all the updates from KB4462923 (it’s cumulative, I get it), plus a lot of extra improvements and fixes. It will become the November monthly.

      I see that the 2018 SSU is a prerequisite for KB4462927 as well. As long as KB3177467 sits in the queue uninstalled, no windows updates will follow.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #226632 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        The Monthly Rollups (Security updates) are CHECKED “important” updates and are composed of three parts:
        1. Current month’s Non-security patches
        2. Current month’s Security patches
        3. Current month’s IE11 Cumulative Update

        The Preview Rpllups (Non-security updates) are UNCHECKED “optional” updates and are composed of four parts:
        1. Current month’s Non-security patches
        2. Current month’s Security patches
        3. Current month’s IE11 Cumulative Update
        4. Next month’s Non-security patches

        The Previews are intended to be used for testing, mostly by IT groups, to determine if there are any problems before the next month’s Rollup is released. They are not usually intended for general consumption. That is why they are UNCHECKED and in the “optional” updates. Since they are Non-security updates, they do not supersede the Security Monthly Rollups released on Patch Tuesday.

        2 users thanked author for this post.

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    Reply To: Patch Alert: Where we stand with the October patches

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