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  • Patch Lady – finally got an HP Envy 8 Note 5000 upgraded

    Posted on April 20th, 2018 at 13:16 Susan Bradley Comment on the AskWoody Lounge

    180whenever may not be released yet, but I FINALLY got a 32gig HP Envy 8 Note 5000 upgraded to 1709.

    I had to:

    1. Temp disable Windows update services and delete the entire c:\Windows\Software distribution folder to carve out enough room on the C drive.  Don’t worry you can nuke that folder and re-enabling Windows update will recreate the folder structure.
    2. I had to use the Windows media site to download the ISO and transfer it to a MicroSD card.  Note I did this on my beefier Surface that has a SD slot. Once I downloaded the ISO I then moved the SD card from my Surface over to the HP Envy.  I then double clicked on the ISO where Windows 10 mounted it as a usable CD drive.  I then clicked on setup.  It ran the setup, I selected to keep the data.
    3. Between nuking the Software distribution folder and going into the system to tell it to move all file save locations to the MicroSD, it now saw that it had enough room to install.  I started it about 9 a.m this morning and it finished at 11 a.m.

    I’m now running the disk clean up as I only have 2 gigs free on the C after the install.

    Interestingly enough not all MicroSD’s are created equal as the SD card I purchased a while back for my Surface worked like a champ but the recent one we purchased for this HP Envy at the start of this project kept unmounting indicating it had an error.  I’ll be going back and getting another of the MicroSD cards that obviously worked perfectly.

    The process – while do-able – is an advanced technique, not for the faint of heart and required one to purchase additional equipment.

    I go back to my request to Microsoft:

    All devices sold with Windows 10 should be in a condition that can complete the upgrade between feature releases with the resources they have at hand when they are shipped from the manufacturer.

    No devices sold with Windows 10 should EVER be in a condition that it demands expert pruning of windows folders in order to install a feature release. 

    No device sold with Windows 10 should EVER be in a condition that demands additional storage space with nothing but the operating system installed on the 32gig hard drive in order to complete a “Windows as a service” process.

    If that helped, take a second to support AskWoody on Patreon

    Home Forums Patch Lady – finally got an HP Envy 8 Note 5000 upgraded

    This topic contains 30 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by

     Know Whey 8 months, 3 weeks ago.

    • Author
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    • #186152 Reply

      Susan Bradley
      Da Boss

      180whenever may not be released yet, but I FINALLY got a 32gig HP Envy 8 Note 5000 upgraded to 1709. I had to: Temp disable Windows update services an
      [See the full post at: Patch Lady – finally got an HP Envy 8 Note 5000 upgraded]

      Susan Bradley Patch Lady

      8 users thanked author for this post.
    • #186165 Reply

      John
      AskWoody Lounger

      Yep worked with those small drives too.  Yea fine for Chrome OS, not fine for Windows.

    • #186171 Reply

      OscarCP
      AskWoody Lounger

      Why is it called “Envy”?

      Is it because everyone without it is supposed to envy anyone who has it, or is it the other way around?

      For many years I have suffered from running repeatedly out of enough free space on disk, to the point of not even being able to defragment it anymore, no matter how frugally and severely managed it was, to leave out everything inessential. At the same time, disk space available in successive generations of PCs grew and grew and the price went down and down. So, as soon as it became possible for me to do it, I adopted the firm policy of never buying anything with less than half a gigabyte of disk space (and more, if possible) and several gigs of RAM.

      Costlier? Yes.

      But, if one can afford it, that is what money is for…

      And, by the way, any bad news on the Win 7, x64 Security Only update?

      Because I am SO fully informed already about the rollout…

      Just hoping, barely, by now, that someone will take pity of us Group B and let us know.

       

       

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #186193 Reply

        Susan Bradley
        Da Boss

        Other than don’t install the preview update, I’m not tracking any major issues with the A or B updates.  They installed at my office just fine.

        Susan Bradley Patch Lady

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #186198 Reply

      UltimateOutsider
      AskWoody Lounger

      My li’l Win 10 upgrade anecdote: My mother-in-law had an Acer Cloudbook that shipped with Windows 10. It only had 32 or 64 GB of non-expandable flash storage. It bricked itself when Windows 10 attempted to upgrade to a new build, getting stuck in an infinite Windows Update install/rollback loop where she could never log on.

      So I wiped the thing’s storage and installed Windows 10 fresh. Got it completely up and running, her docs restored (from OneDrive). Then Windows downloaded the latest updates automatically and… bricked itself again. (I ended up just giving her an extra laptop of ours.) How can a company as big as Microsoft with a product as mature as Windows not figure this stuff out?

      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #186200 Reply

      Great Lake Bunyip
      AskWoody Lounger

      My sincere and grateful thanks for your posts, Susan. I am having the same trouble here in “upgrading” a 32 GB Lenovo ideapad 100 series to 1709. It belongs to a migrant student from India. (it was purchased here in Australia in 2017.)  My question is will we have to go through the same drama to upgrade from 1709 to 1803, assuming I can get 1709 to install? The answer is probably yes! Best wishes and thanks again.

    • #186223 Reply

      anonymous

      How come we can’t normally do the above for our smartphones, ie do a clean install or upgrade?

      The OP’s problem proves how bloated Win 10 is, compared to Chrome OS, Linux and MacOS.
      M$’s Win 10 is very liberal with users’ disk space and Internet connection…

    • #186248 Reply

      Noel Carboni
      AskWoody_MVP

      Hats off to you for your tenacity Susan. Congratulations.

      I go back to my request to Microsoft:

      All devices sold with Windows 10 should be in a condition that can complete the upgrade between feature releases with the resources they have at hand when they are shipped from the manufacturer.

      You are not supposed to want that.

      You are supposed to want to buy new hardware to resolve your problems. You are supposed to come to believe that any tech under $1,000 should just be considered subject to being thrown away and replaced.

      EVERYTHING about what you have experienced supports this.

      I’m sure that those at Microsoft reading your story imagine that it is a success for them, since you both praise their Surface in it by comparison to another company’s product, and you know your tech yet consider installing a newer version of Windows 10 something worth working for.

      -Noel

      4 users thanked author for this post.
      • #186253 Reply

        anonymous

        Congratulations likewise to Susan, and my thanks to Noel and Woody.

        If a (consumer) device cannot perform the manufacturer’s update after 6 months from original purchase (and Win10 is, we agree, on a 6-monthly update cycle),  then the device was not “fit for purpose” when originally sold.  Whether that is a matter for the retailer or for the manufacturer ought to be for the latter two to argue about (they can afford the lawyers), but let us, as consumers — whether Home or Pro or other — demand that new devices last longer than 6 months.

        HMcF.

        3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #186264 Reply

      anonymous

      No PC should ever be sold today, with less than 1 TB HDD and
      if it’s a 64bit OS, not less than 8 GB RAM!

      The HDD should be split up in 3-4 sepr. partitions, where the first
      partition should always be the OS partition; 32bit size: 50GB or
      64bit OS: 100GB!

      The remaining HDD space should be used for saving all your private
      files.  One partition for Data, could be your documents, PDF’s and
      internet pages your save for later use, info and notes!

      You make your own folder structure in those partitions and never
      save anything private on the OS partition (other than installed programs)!

      The next partition could be for saving A/V media files, and the
      last partition could be for backup of important files, programs a.s.o.

      That way you will not “run out of space” any time soon.
      Make it much easy’er to administrate your PC and if you have to
      reinstall the OS, then you don’t have to backup all your private files
      before installing the “new” OS.

      Of course backup is a must do!
      That should be split up in separate OS images and backup of your
      private files!

      Best option is always to do this to a external HDD, that is ONLY
      connected to your PC, at the time off during the backup/imaging!

      Gordon7

      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #186349 Reply

        Ascaris
        AskWoody_MVP

        I don’t agree with that at all.  If there is one central theme to my computing worldview, as it were, it’s “one size does not fit all.”  Not everyone has the same needs, nor the budget to cover the “no PC should ever” rules of thumb.  You can certainly say you’d never buy a PC that lacks (x) or has (y), but others may not agree with you.

        It’s a shame indeed that PC manufacturers have chosen to install Windows 10 (without a compressed image) on what are essentially Chromebooks, but as always, it’s the buyer’s duty to ensure the fitness of goods he purchases.

        I was reading through the comments section on one similar PC about 5 months ago where I saw comments describing the precise issue that Ms. Bowman describes.  Reviews on various sites also describe the sorry situation where a laptop, out of the box, has two-thirds of its storage device full.

        It isn’t a secret by any means that these low-end “Chromebooks with Windows 10” are not fit for purpose as sold.  It didn’t stop me from buying one, and the sub-$200 price (that is a function of its limited RAM and very limited storage space, in large part) was what I was looking for.

         

        Group "L" (KDE Neon Linux, based on Ubuntu 18.04)

    • #186279 Reply

      anonymous

      I get your point, but, at the same time – why on earth are people buying an absolutely obvious garbage hardware like this? What did you expect from it? What’s the use case when pretty much no space whatsoever is left for user files? Ugh.

      • #186307 Reply

        anonymous

        I had to do what user UltimateOutsider above had to do with his mother-in-laws. I have a friend that has a 14-inch HP Stream laptop with 32GB of hard drive space. She kept receiving full screen pop-ups from Windows 10 about her version (1511) not being supported and to please upgrade.

        She did not have any personal files on her computer and had about 4GB of free space. Again like UltimateOutsider I had to reset the laptop (start fresh to the out-of-box experience). When it was done I had about 13GB free.  Using the Windows 10 media creation tool on another computer I used a 32GB flash drive to install that on. I inserted that in my friends machine and ran the SETUP from the flash drive. When that was finished updating to 1709, I had about 7GB free. I also ran Disk Cleanup plus Clean up System (like the Patch Lady) to remove the old Windows 10 1511 files, and that left about 10GB of space left.

        To answer you question as to why people buy those machines: its the price (on sale for < $200), portability (about 4lbs) and battery life (literally all day). Those 3 pluses are enough for any technophobe to purchase it. They are not paying attention to the little 32GB eMMC drive that is going to get filled up with Windows temp files and such. If the computer companies could make those thing with 128GB eMMC drives and keep the price ~$250 they would have a serious entry level ultrabook.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #186350 Reply

          Ascaris
          AskWoody_MVP

          To answer you question as to why people buy those machines: its the price (on sale for < $200), portability (about 4lbs) and battery life (literally all day). Those 3 pluses are enough for any technophobe to purchase it. They are not paying attention to the little 32GB eMMC drive that is going to get filled up with Windows temp files and such.

          I bought one such machine myself in December 2017.  It was a well-researched decision, and I don’t regret it a bit.  I was aware of the limitation of the 32GB eMMC drive, and as I mentioned a bit ago in this same thread, I even saw people commenting about this very problem before I hit “add to cart.”

          As for Windows temp files… probably not going to be a problem (grin), given that the installed Windows didn’t make it through day 1 of me having the PC (which has been true of nearly every laptop I have ever owned).

          With Linux Mint installed, more than half of the eMMC drive is empty, and that’s with Firefox, Thunderbird, Libre Office, GIMP, etc., all preinstalled, in addition to all kinds of stuff I put on there.  Even so, still half the drive is available!

          Now, I do admit that I have my /home directory on a removable micro SD card, but I haven’t got any programs installed there.  My data, pictures, documents, etc., will go there as needed (at current, there’s almost nothing there), safely encrypted by Linux’s ecryptfs.

          It’s unfortunate that Dell has chosen to saddle the microSD card reader with a “state of the art” USB2 interface (internally) on the card reader even when the two USB ports on the machine are USB3 (meaning that the device DOES have USB3 capability, as you would expect from a laptop manufactured in 2017), but, hey, it was a hundred and eighty bucks for a laptop that lasts all day on the battery and doesn’t phone home to the Google mother-ship all the time.

          It’s essentially a Chromebook in hardware terms, but sometimes a Chromebook (minus the Google aspect) is all that’s needed. Woody has advocated Chromebooks for a lot of people’s computing needs, and this does the same basic thing (gets you to a browser) without any spying or telemetry.

          The little laptop fills a niche in my computing “system” that none of my existing (older) gear filled.  For all my at-home needs, of course, there’s my desktop; it’s fast, got a good bit of memory, lots of storage, and a big IPS monitor (just one, but that’s because I use my “main” laptop as a second display of sorts), and that’s all the space I have available.

          The “main” laptop is a ten year old Core 2 Duo machine (that was mid to high end when new) that outperforms my brand new laptop across the board except in battery life and portability.  It lives on my computer desk right next to my regular monitor, and when I am using the desktop for something, I can very quickly use the laptop for some other thing without breaking the workflow on the main PC, very much like having two monitors.  I have two mice side by side (used to be very confusing when both were the same model of mouse; I had to change one of them to not go nuts).  The PCs are connected via LAN and sometimes by Bluetooth (I use the desktop PC as an audio sink, since it has the good speakers), so it’s not a problem sharing data if needed.

          If I am going to go somewhere where I will be “setting up camp,” so to speak, the C2D laptop gets the job.  It has a 1TB SSD, so it has plenty of space for general-purpose computing.  I wouldn’t want to replace my speedy desktop with a C2D setup full-time, but running Linux or Windows 8.1 from an 850 Evo, the Core 2 Duo at 2.5 GHz is responsive enough to not feel like I am trying to run through water up to my chest when I try to move quickly.  Fast storage makes a tremendous difference in the perception of speed!

          The C2D laptop is bulky and heavy for its size (14.1 inch 16:10) compared to modern laptops of the same screen size, and its battery life is abysmal, even with brand new batteries (of which I have three).  It has a discrete GPU that is always on; no Optimus on this old machine.  That doesn’t matter if I am going to “set up” at a place like a hotel room or a friend’s house (the kind of thing I used to use my old Compaq Portable Plus luggable for decades ago).  Plugged in and sitting on a desk, the power consumption and weight don’t mean a thing.

          The new laptop’s job is to fill in for the old laptop (which is itself filling in for the desktop) when portability and battery life do matter.  It doesn’t need to have all the capabilities that my other PCs do… for the roles that I have those other PCs in, they do what is needed well.  What I needed was long battery life and light weight, not to mention the low price, and I got it!

          If I was more of a “cloud” guy, I could easily envision having my stuff I am working on “in the cloud” where it can be accessed by whatever device I am using at the time.  It’s one of the use cases of “the cloud” that makes a good deal of sense, but I’m not overly trusting of data that’s not under my direct control.  I sync the PCs at home using my LAN.  If I ever find myself with important data on the new PC out in the field somewhere (which hasn’t happened yet, and probably won’t), and it’s important enough to where I would be aggrieved if the data was lost (and a laptop can always be lost or stolen), I can easily toss it in an encrypted zip file and email it to myself.

          I don’t have a smart phone, so if you’re wondering, that’s why I don’t mention the role my phone has.  My phone is just a phone.  I don’t care for smartphones, and don’t plan on getting one.  I’m okay being disconnected/unreachable much of the time… when I grew up, that was called “life,” and ya know, I like not being on an electronic leash all the time.

          Group "L" (KDE Neon Linux, based on Ubuntu 18.04)

          3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #186321 Reply

      OscarCP
      AskWoody Lounger

      The Patch Lady might have explained already why she bought the laptop. Probably she did it here, at Woody’s, I just don’t remember reading about it. Be that as it may, she is doing a two-fold service to people considering to buy a really cheap computer with (in today’s world) a tiny hard disk, with the following implicit advice (from her and from some of those who she has motivated to write here):

      (1) Don’t do it!

      (2) Here are some ways to help someone that already bought it and now is in serious buyer’s regret mode.

      What follows is about No. 2:

      I just checked with Amazon, and the average price of a 250 GB external SSD I saw offered there is around $100.

      For a person that is unlikely to go out with the laptop — such as many an elderly retired person, shut in, invalid, someone recovering from illness or surgery — having to attach the external disk regularly to have access to much of their own data might be a workable solution, and also a good idea for a gift to someone one knows who is in that situation.

      That, of course, does not detract from what has been written here about what a ripoff selling such a limited, practically doomed-to-fail-very-soon piece of hardware really is. Or how despicable is to aid, and profit from this ripoff, by having that hardware sold by the OEM with one’s company’s OS installed in it, first bought and paid by the OEM at a bulk discount price that it then passed on to the ultimate buyer. My great-aunt Agatha, for example.

      I imagine that selling something that is not fit for use, as the combination cheap PC with tiny disk + Win 10 has been, correctly, described here, must run contrary to laws and regulations. If so, maybe a good question could be: why are not enforced?

      Probable answer: because people who buy cheap PCs are, for the most part, not able to afford even cheap lawyers to sue the offending parties, and regulators are few and far apart, as well as poorly funded, thanks to opportunistic and cheapskate politicians, etc., etc.

       

      • This reply was modified 9 months ago by
         OscarCP.
      • This reply was modified 9 months ago by
         OscarCP.
    • #186327 Reply

      anonymous

      A great achievement since you only had to delete the software distribution folder and no other essential files. 🙂 I do think you should have publicly called out the manufacturers as the other commenters have done.

      No not all memory cards are created equal, nor are SD card readers & their drivers. Had you already updated the Envy’s card reader driver software?; Sometimes card reader drivers are not in complete working order as shipped from the factory and may need replacement.

    • #186341 Reply

      Great Lake Bunyip
      AskWoody Lounger

      I am now wondering if selling products such as this  here in Australia violates Australian consumer law if it can’t easily be easily upgraded to the latest” feature” version within a reasonable time of purchase.  It is currently running 1703. The laptop is a Lenovo ideapad 100s-14ibr laptop with only 32 GB of storage space bought by a migrant Indian student. It is worth me making an inquiry.

    • #186347 Reply

      Noel Carboni
      AskWoody_MVP

      The saddest thing in all this is that Windows 10 is explicitly not to be considered a static system – but one that’s to be continuously updated, and completely replaced every 6 months.

      -Noel

      • #186351 Reply

        Ascaris
        AskWoody_MVP

        If Windows 10 didn’t do its thing with such with megalithic updates, but instead used the old system with smaller updates that didn’t amount to another in-place upgrade every six months, this particular problem would not occur.  Of course, it would still be questionable at best to sell a PC with two thirds of its storage used up right out of the box, but at least it would be able to update itself.

        I read somewhere (one of the tech sites) about a Windows 10 installation that used a compressed image (a feature designed in to Windows for that purpose) to work with the limited storage on a portable device, and it wasn’t limited to ARM devices.  From what I gathered from the article, the same technique could be used by HP, Dell, Acer, et al, to reduce the footprint of Windows 10 to ~8GB (while imposing some overhead for on-the-fly decompression).  It seems like the OEMs would have/could have done that if they wanted to, but apparently it’s cheaper not to, ’cause none of them have.

        I would certainly have investigated doing it myself unofficially (of course) with my own low-spec laptop if I hadn’t bought it with the intent of going “group L” on it.  I don’t know how feasible it is to do as an end user rather than the OEM, but the impression I got was that it should be possible.

        Group "L" (KDE Neon Linux, based on Ubuntu 18.04)

        2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #186354 Reply

      anonymous

      https://www.windowscentral.com/emmc-vs-ssd

      On such cheap eMMC netbooks, you should avoid opening more than 5 browser tabs at the same time, do 3D gaming, live-streaming HD videos or video-editing, ie they are more suitable for light web-browsing, reading emails and watching Youtube videos.

    • #186360 Reply

      Microfix
      AskWoody MVP

      Well done, hat’s off!

      With only 2Gb space left rang alarm bells, isn’t a percentage of free space required to ensure longevity of SSD’s and eMMC drives?

      I certainly don’t Envy your next upgrade with so called ‘added features’ that takes up even more installation space. Upgrading the storage to a larger capacity looks like the only way, if you wish to install the next version/ upgrade of W10.

       

      | W10 Pro x64 | W8.1 Pro x64 | Linux x64 Hybrids | XP Pro O/L
    • #186361 Reply

      Jan K.
      AskWoody Lounger

      Congrats, I guess?

      But

      I’m now running the disk clean up as I only have 2 gigs free on the C after the install.

      That minute amount of overhead is certainly not something I would feel comfortable with…

      Almost prepared to take bets on that it will be the cause of problems and/or serious slowdowns further down the road.

      Please keep us updated!

    • #186404 Reply

      anonymous

      Notebooks and laptops can be upgraded with a SATA HDD!

      You unscrew the bottom cover and gently loosen the top part –
      inside you will find a SATA connector, that is just waiting to be
      connected to a 1TB 1,8″ HDD.

      Go to the manufacturer’s web site – support – search for Repair
      Manual for your product, DL the pdf, and read it or ask a friend
      to help you with the upgrade.

      Before you get the HDD – take a look inside the machine so you
      feel comfortable with the project.
      These small HDD can be found cheap, just take your time look’in
      and choosing.

      If you run Windows, format in NTFS and split up in 3 partitions!
      Keep the “small” eMMC SSD for clean OS operation and you
      will have a fast running machine with plenty storage space!

      Gordon7.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #186487 Reply

        Know Whey
        AskWoody Lounger

        My guess is, the HP Envy 8 Note 5000 is an 8″ tablet and thus, its internal “hard” drive can’t be upgraded. (And laptops that have a 32 GB eMMC typically have them soldered in place, too.)

    • #186657 Reply

      MrJimPhelps
      AskWoody_MVP

      You could purchase a 64GB Micro SD card for $23 at Walmart, and keep it inserted in the HP Envy; then whenever Windows tries to do an update, there should be enough room for it to be successful, as long as you don’t store anything on the Micro SD card.

      In fact, the vendor could buy these cards in bulk for a few dollars each, and could include one free with the purchase of the Envy, thereby eliminating this problem.

      Group "L" (Linux Mint)
      with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #187242 Reply

      EP
      AskWoody_MVP

      Hi Susan.

      You should also inspect the C:\Windows\Logs\CBS folder and check how much space the log files are using up because sometimes the log files take up a lot of space in that folder, especially when installing a lot of updates. Delete the *.log and *.cab files if necessary.

      • This reply was modified 9 months ago by
         EP.
      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #187789 Reply

      anonymous

      I just managed to upgrade system like this (32GB eMMC Acer) from Win 10 1511 to 1709 without any other hardware.
      1709 upgrade was hidden. I disabled hibernation completely using “powercfg -h off” to gain some space.
      I was prepared to delete SoftwareDistribution folder (~560 MB) also but in the end didn’t have to.
      Microsoft forced upgrade failed twice without clear reason and always redownloaded upgrade. I tried downloaded windows upgrade assistant (mostly white window) and it also failed (with space still remaining).

      I installed all updates with 1709 upgrade still hidden.  So I unhid 1709 update. Ran Cleanmgr and after restart blue windows upgrade window started (other apps still accessible). After checking download it started expanding files (“~preparing to install”) to $GetCurrent (something like it) hidden folder on C:.
      After that was done it complained about not having enough space and offered using external storage. Now I deleted ESD file(~2.5GB) from Win10Upgrade (something like it) folder. That is the downloaded one it was expanding from.
      I actually deleted everything not open by process in that folder = everything windows allowed me to). That made enough space to allow upgrade process to continue (restart and do its stuff).
      After successful upgrade windows quickly ran out of space (0 MB free). Turning off hibernation again and deleting previous windows version from Settings app left me with about 10 GB free space in the end.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #187792 Reply

      anonymous

      I really don’t understand why they are installing 64bit Windows and not 32bit (x86) on these systems (~2GB RAM).

    • #189092 Reply

      Microfix
      AskWoody MVP

      Susan, if I were you I would not connect your Envy online otherwise you’ll have to repeat the whole proceedure again for W10 1803, unless of course you want to.

      | W10 Pro x64 | W8.1 Pro x64 | Linux x64 Hybrids | XP Pro O/L
      • #189233 Reply

        Know Whey
        AskWoody Lounger

        I’ll bet she changed the version of Win10 on this tablet from Home to Enterprise (assuming she didn’t order it with Enterprise to begin with) and then set it up in the usual manner to stave off updates.

    Please follow the -Lounge Rules- no personal attacks, no swearing, and politics/religion are relegated to the Rants forum.

    Reply To: Patch Lady – finally got an HP Envy 8 Note 5000 upgraded

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