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  • Patch Lady – Microsoft admits the bug (again)

    Posted on March 9th, 2018 at 20:07 Susan Bradley Comment on the AskWoody Lounge

    Susan here… Just spotted the acknowledgement that Woody was right in KB4023814:

     

    Important

    Microsoft is aware that this notification was incorrectly delivered to some Windows 10 Version 1703 devices that had a user-defined feature update deferral period configured. Microsoft mitigated this issue on March 8, 2018.

    Users who were affected by this issue and who upgraded to Windows 10 Version 1709 can revert to an earlier version within 10 days of the upgrade. To do this, open Settings > Update & Security > Recovery, and then select Get started under Go back to the previous version of windows 10.

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    Home Forums Patch Lady – Microsoft admits the bug (again)

    This topic contains 43 replies, has 22 voices, and was last updated by  Noel Carboni 9 months, 1 week ago.

    • Author
      Posts
    • #174292 Reply

      Susan Bradley
      AskWoody MVP

      Susan here… Just spotted the acknowledgement that Woody was right in KB4023814:   Important Microsoft is aware that this notification was incor
      [See the full post at: Patch Lady – Microsoft admits the bug (again)]

      Susan Bradley Patch Lady

      5 users thanked author for this post.
    • #174293 Reply

      madhatter
      AskWoody Lounger

      Is microsoft ever going to get their act together? This windows 10 fiasco is getting out of control so much so I will not even look at a win 10 computer again. The stress is NOT worth the grief it is causing consumers.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #174294 Reply

      abbodi86
      AskWoody MVP

      It seems the Fall in “Fall Creators Update” was not ment for season name 😀

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #174297 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      Golly gee. That’s the third time Microsoft has pushed people to 1709, violating its own settings.

      Shucks.

      Nice Friday night news dump.

      10 users thanked author for this post.
      • #174340 Reply

        Ascaris
        AskWoody MVP

        . That’s the third time Microsoft has pushed people to 1709, violating its own settings.

        Bugs, of course.  Like the times that GWX failed to get the user’s permission and just installed 10 anyway.  Like the times people set the telemetry to Basic or whatever the minimal level was, only to have it “accidentally” get set back to Full, because of a bug, of course (or so was the claim).

        These are some mighty convenient bugs for Microsoft… or do they only become bugs once they garner enough press to cause backlash?

        Group L (Linux): KDE Neon User Edition 5.14.4 (based on Ubuntu 18.04) + Windows 7 in Virtualbox VM

        6 users thanked author for this post.
    • #174299 Reply

      bobcat5536
      AskWoody Lounger

      That’s welcome news….the forced update bricked my PC and after restoring an image and trying again just tonight, I noticed KB4023814 did not install and I assume has been pulled. Also the Microsoft malware program Windows 10 Update Assistant is also gone. ( I Hope ).

      Many Thanks to Woody and Susan for keeping us informed.

      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #174300 Reply

        woody
        Da Boss

        I just wanna know how in the blue blazes Microsoft gets away with this “aw shucks” routine over and over and over again.

        No consequences = no improvement.

        8 users thanked author for this post.
        • #174304 Reply

          bobcat5536
          AskWoody Lounger

          Maybe someone could talk Symantec and McAfee and the others to come up with some new antivirus definitions to fix that. lol  🙂

          2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #174489 Reply

          radosuaf
          AskWoody Lounger

          Maybe you should know since you use Windows 10 yourself :).

          MSI H110 PC MATE * Intel Core i5-6402P * 2 x 8 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2133 MHz * Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1050 Ti D5 4G * Samsung 840 EVO 250GB SSD * Western Digital Blue 1TB HDD * Seagate Barracuda 1TB HDD * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer PCI * Windows 10 Pro 1803 64-bit
        • #174525 Reply

          Noel Carboni
          AskWoody MVP

          I just wanna know how in the blue blazes Microsoft gets away with this “aw shucks” routine over and over and over again.

          No consequences = no improvement.

          Me too. That’s a more profound comment than most folks think, when considering things like legal precedent and common business practices.

          -Noel

          • #174533 Reply

            wdburt1

            I’m afraid the law has abandoned us in this area.

            It was intimidated by those many who insist that because M$ is doing well by its shareholders at the moment, it can’t possibly be doing anything wrong.

            • #174535 Reply

              wdburt1
              AskWoody Lounger

              “Anonymous.”  That’s me.  I’ve got to figure out how to stop Norton from erasing the “Save Me” log in option…

            • #174581 Reply

              anonymous

              You may wish to ask for a fix on the Symantec forum, maybe customer service. I tired of Symantec Norton labeled products, as they aren’t really like what Peter would approve of maybe, so it was erased and my computer at the time was rejuvenated and ongoing problems were gone.

        • #174555 Reply

          Sessh
          AskWoody Lounger

          Probably the biggest reason MS can get away with the “aw shucks!” routine over and over again is because people keep using Windows 10 anyway and because of the ones who continue to defend MS (or be completely silent when they do stuff like this) no matter what they do. “Fanboys” if you will.

          There’s still people encouraging others to upgrade to Windows 10 anyway despite all these headaches and MS constantly forcing their will upon users whether they like it or not and it may even brick your machine. However, this is a feature and users should just get used to it. These people have decided that this “new norm” is acceptable and that people should just bend over and take it because if it feels fine to them, it must be fine for everyone else and if it’s not, it’s because there’s something wrong with you.

          I, for one, can’t understand how this is acceptable to anyone. It’s pretty clear to me at this point that Windows Updates present far more risk to your PC and your data than anything in the wild and keeping yourself safe from that stuff isn’t all that hard at all even if you never allow any Windows Updates to be installed.

          Just the fact that MS is still pulling this kind of “forced” upgrade just further confirms my suspicions that GWX never really ended. It just took a different form. You can always avoid forced upgrades to W10 on W7 and W8 by just disabling the WU service, but you really don’t have a choice with Windows 10.

          My Win7 system is stable, reliable, fast, is “Oops” free and does everything I need without any issues which is almost certainly something I could not say if I was using Windows 10. When it comes to my computer, having complete control over how it operates, when/if/how it is updated and how it is managed is not negotiable and I don’t want to have to constantly fight my system to make it do what I want it to do.

          Windows 7 (not a beta OS) + No Windows Updates + good computing habits = no problems and a stable system that can run for months straight without issue. I think I’m just going to stick with that. MS has no trust with me anymore and never will again. Linux Mint is my future and probably a key part of the future of Linux. Very impressive so far in a VM.

          4 users thanked author for this post.
          • #174624 Reply

            anonymous

            @ Sessh

            During the 1990s, most computer users cheered Microsoft when she out-marketed Apple in the desktop OS arena because Apple was a control-freak and profit-gouger. It was Apple’s way or the highway.

            They never thought that good ole Microsoft would one day warped into another Apple-clone with Win 10, ie a control-freak and profit-gouger. It’s M$’s way or the highway.

            2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #174301 Reply

      anonymous

      If only features updates were optional, I bet everyone would be happy with Windows 10 despite their settings and new policies. At least I would be happy, since I would sleep peacefully every night knowing that my computer will stay stable and supported forever.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #174383 Reply

        anonymous

        @ anonymous #174301

        If only features updates were optional, I bet everyone would be happy with Windows 10 despite their settings and new policies. At least I would be happy, since I would sleep peacefully every night knowing that my computer will stay stable and supported forever.

        Not actually true.

        If the devices in your OEM Win 10 computer are no longer supported by the OEMs, M$ may stop providing support, ie no more important updates for your computer, eg your 5 years old Intel processor has reached EOL. …

        The Modern Lifecycle Policy covers products and services that are serviced and supported continuously. Under this policy, the product or service remains in support if the following criteria are met:

        1 Customers must stay current as per the servicing and system requirements published for the product or service.
        2 Customers must be licensed to use the product or service.
        3 Microsoft must currently offer support for the product or service.

        https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/30881/modern-lifecycle-policy
        .
        If I were M$/Nadella, I will only begin to stop supporting 5 years old OEM Win 10 computers in 2020, ie after the EOL of Win 7 when many have already transitioned to Win 10.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #174436 Reply

          Ascaris
          AskWoody MVP

          Isn’t that interesting!

          Windows 10 used to have a published end of extended support date that was 10 years after the initial release, just like the other versions of Windows.  Articles like this one by Ed Bott report the 2025 end of support date, which used to be prominently displayed in the Microsoft documents linked in the article.  Just look at the title of the article!

          Those Microsoft documents no longer match what tech writers like Mr. Bott have reported.  The only place you’ll see the 2025 date is in the listing for the LTSB flavor of Windows 10 for enterprise.  For consumer and CBB editions, the support period is listed based only on the specific build in question.  Windows 10 as a whole, such that it used to be listed, seems not to exist anymore.  This matches the assertion that many have made that each feature build of Windows 10 is in fact a new Windows rather than simply being a revision of an existing version.

          Did the same tech press that revealed the conventional five and five (mainstream and extended) support period for Windows 10 ever mention it when it changed?  I hadn’t been aware of the change until I began to write this response; I was all set to mention the conventional ten year support period, backed up by the same Microsoft documents I’d referred to several times already, only those documents no longer say what I remember them saying.

          Group L (Linux): KDE Neon User Edition 5.14.4 (based on Ubuntu 18.04) + Windows 7 in Virtualbox VM

          2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #174440 Reply

            MrBrian
            AskWoody MVP
          • #174460 Reply

            anonymous

            @ Ascaris

            M$ likes to move the goal-posts during the game so that Nadella can score more goal$.

            Looking at the Modern Lifecycle Policy negatively or maybe realistically, each Version of Win 10 Home & Pro SAC will only be supported by M$ for 18 months if it is not upgraded or is un-upgradeable. Eg …

            A device might not be able to receive updates if the device hardware is incompatible, lacking current drivers, or otherwise outside of the Original Equipment Manufacturers’ (“OEM”) support period. Not all features in an update will work on all devices.

            *cf;(11 Aug 2016) Future silicon platforms including Intel’s coming 7th Gen Intel Core (Kaby Lake) processor family and AMD’s 7th generation processors (e.g. Bristol Ridge) will only be supported on Windows 10, and all future silicon releases will require the latest release of Windows 10.

            3 upgrades or feature updates to Win 10 equals to a support period of 36 months or 3 years.

            So, after a few successful upgrades, Win 10 Home & Pro users will likely need to “pray” that their devices/computers can still be upgraded to the next Version, especially from 2020 onwards.
            .

            P S – ** VVIP or Enterprise and Education editions for versions 1511, 1607, 1703 and 1709 will receive an additional 6 months of servicing after the end of service date = 24 months of support from M$.

            1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #174538 Reply

            anonymous

            OP anonymous here,  as I said, I wish that was the case.  I am aware that we are going to deal with Windows 10 and its feature updates beyond 2025.

            • #174621 Reply

              anonymous

              @ anonymous OP #174538

              If M$ allows Win 10 Home & Pro users the option to reject all feature updates or upgrades until their EOL, M$ will not be able to milk more ca$h out of them, ie the big price difference between Home & Pro licenses and sales of more new Win 10 Home & Pro licenses through Planned Obsolescence.

              OTOH, to milk her enterprising ca$h cows, M$ does not allow Win 10 Ent Volume Licensing users to upgrade to newer Versions unless they have bought additional Software Assurance/Insurance or annual subscriptions; … and M$ charge$ them twice-as-much for the 10-years Win 10 Ent LTSC/LTSB Volume Licenses.

              Seems, M$ suffers from Bipolar Disorder, ie forces consumers to upgrade Win 10 but stops enterprises from upgrading.

    • #174305 Reply

      anonymous

      I’m okay! I survived! My computer is doing alright after the update was forced on me. Thank goodness for Lenovo Ideapad 320 laptop and being simple and basic. 🙂

      I ain’t installing no 1709 security updates and such UNTIL DEFCON3 for March updates.

      • #174318 Reply

        anonymous

        I am happy for you, most of us will wait until Woody approves of the update.
        As for me, I will wait until Woody approves the 1803 one.

        • #174411 Reply

          anonymous

          Oh yeah-TOTALLY GONNA WAIT FOR the greenlit on 1803. I AM GONNA HIDE THAT feature update when WU offers it only to be denied and hidden. Let’s hope the Windows update/upgrade assistant doesn’t try anything funny though like it did for forced 1709.

    • #174344 Reply

      anonymous

      If folks really believe Microsoft’s claim that it was a bug, I’ve got a bridge to sell you…

      No, this (mis)behavior has been repeated too many times for me to swallow the PR blurb. Facebook and Twitter do the same thing. Ask yourself this: would the company that came up with the GWX campaign, a move designed to push people onto the preferred OS, suddenly stop manhandling users who aren’t running the preferred feature version on the preferred OS?

      I can’t say yes with a straight face.

      9 users thanked author for this post.
    • #174365 Reply

      Microfix
      AskWoody MVP

      Thanks Susan and Woody.

      What do people expect from a rolling release beta? no matter how it’s dressed up.

      | W10 Pro x64 | W8.1 Pro x64 | Linux x64 Hybrids | XP Pro O/L
      6 users thanked author for this post.
    • #174374 Reply

      AJNorth
      AskWoody Lounger

      The Microsoft Beta Tester’s Creed:

      “We, the unwilling, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much, for so long, with so little, we are now qualified to do anything with nothing.”
                                                                                                          — Konstantin Jireček
      5 users thanked author for this post.
    • #174377 Reply

      PKCano
      AskWoody MVP

      It was the Red “X” that meant “Install” all over again.

      How can there be an accident with a notification box that said “You need to Upgrade”

      5 users thanked author for this post.
      • #174419 Reply

        GoneToPlaid
        AskWoody Lounger

        Oh, you must be joking. Is it really the red X thing all over again?

    • #174386 Reply

      dgreen
      AskWoody Lounger

      Watching this fiasco with Windows 10, I am so glad I returned a laptop that I had purchased back in November with Windows 10, My hard drive bit the dust.
      Did not like Windows 10 one bit.

      I deceided to buy a new hard drive for my desktop computer and have Windows 7 reinstalled.
      Hugging my computer.

      When this goes, chromebook for me.

    • #174420 Reply

      GoneToPlaid
      AskWoody Lounger

      A lot of people don’t like all 64 bits of Windows 10.

    • #174428 Reply

      CADesertRat
      AskWoody Lounger

      Thankfully, my unintended upgrade went fairly smooth but it makes you wonder what MS is thinking by bricking many other computers. I guess their Mantra is ” if you can’t put up with our screwups, you don’t need Windows”.  Evidently they need to have ownership/control of all computers from now on or you need to move onto a different platform, which is starting to look better all the time.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #174430 Reply

      EyesOnWindows
      AskWoody Lounger

      What red X? All I ever saw was [Learn More] and [Hide] neither of which stopped the download:
      ForceUpdate
      After uninstalling “Print 3D” and “Xbox Live”, reinstalling “EPSON Scan”, turning hibernate back off and turning “My People” all off in “Settings->Personalization->Taskbar” it would seem all of Microsoft’s latest efforts have been meaningless, at least in my case 1709 looks no better or different from 1703. These’s still no provision for stripping Windows 10 down to the bare bones. If there were I would uninstall all of UWP in a heartbeat with .Net right on its heels! At least Homegroup is now gone from Windows Explorer. I had already stopped using it and done all I could in 1703 to clear out all of its history.

      HP Compaq 6000 Pro SFF PC / Windows 10 Pro / 1803
      Intel®Core™2 “Wolfdale” E8400 3.0 GHz / 4.00 GB
      EyesOnWindows

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      • #174439 Reply

        Ascaris
        AskWoody MVP

        I think PKCano was writing figuratively.  There was no literal red X this time, but the lack of good faith was just the same.

        Group L (Linux): KDE Neon User Edition 5.14.4 (based on Ubuntu 18.04) + Windows 7 in Virtualbox VM

        4 users thanked author for this post.
        • #174498 Reply

          Cascadian
          AskWoody Lounger

          Agree that it was likely an introduction to the next line. Where some unnamed codewriter spent some few minutes ‘accidentally’ creating a dialog click-through that was really just a notice of (im-) pending action.

      • #174832 Reply

        Noel Carboni
        AskWoody MVP

        These’s still no provision for stripping Windows 10 down to the bare bones.

        Quite the opposite with each new revision. Now a Windows 10 setup runs well over 100 processes just to support an empty desktop.

        -Noel

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #174486 Reply

      anonymous

      I am sure everyone has always desired an OS that just accidentally does things without their permission. Maybe they should name W10 Woops 10 to more accurately describe its true character? Where do you want to go today?

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #174521 Reply

        Noel Carboni
        AskWoody MVP

        Microsoft, let me tell you where to go today… 😉

        In all seriousness, Redmondites, please make Win 10 a serious operating system again.

        -Noel

        2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #174512 Reply

      anonymous

      I am glad I blocked the Update reliability Updates, at least 1709 wont bother me unless I Call it.

    • #174554 Reply

      ky41083
      AskWoody Lounger

      Has anyone else noticed, that 1703, is both the only version to NOT have a Server edition based on it, and the only version (so far) to suffer the insane “sorry, we blatantly ignored your update settings / group policy / etc” recurring issue?

      Fact check with the screen shot from:
      https://www.askwoody.com/2018/will-win10-1803-be-called-yuck-spring-creators-update-yuck/

      • #174556 Reply

        abbodi86
        AskWoody MVP

        1507 and 1511 do not have Server edition

        maybe because 1703 is the first version that have UUP support
        and the mix between traditional WUA and new UUP has proven to be problematic

        i expect 1709 to suffer similar “accidental upgrade” problems when 1803 is released

        • #174817 Reply

          ky41083
          AskWoody Lounger

          1507 and 1511 do have Server editions. They are pre-release, but they exist none the less. Meaning, additional Server testing was indeed happening for all versions, except 1703.

          You may be spot on, about the mix, and 1709 having issues also. Time will tell…

    • #174553 Reply

      anonymous

      First off, I am not a Microsoft hater. When Windows 8 came out, almost everyone I knew were criticizing its design. During this period, I was one of the very few people who were defending it.

      After I got my new computer with Windows 10 on it, I was intrigued by the lack of options toward the Windows Update. However, I ignored it because I was able to work this problem by other methods. This had lasted for a few months until yesterday.

      Yesterday at noon, I was surprised at this “Your device needs the latest security updates” pop-up after I left my bathroom. My immediate thought is that someone must perform a prank with my computer. I was angry at first but I soon found that nobody had touched my computer. I was confused and I did not understand why this thing happened until I read this post.

      I have attempted to uninstall and disable some services in Windows 10, but this pop-up still jumped out several times. I read the official document and it told me to accept it and I can revert to the original state if I wanted…What is the difference between them? Why not put an option on the pop-up window that says “No, I do not wish to receive the update. Thank you.” Seriously!

      After this, I decided to update to the latest version despite this naughty method to get me on the newer version. All right, if you want me to update to the new one, then you must do things better. Thankfully, I found a new app that I saw in the start menu that says nothing but nonsense like “ms-resource:AppListName.” You must be kidding me with this kind of stuff happens with the new update.

      In the end, I realized a golden rule for all the software I used: stay away from the latest version of software and wait for a few years to let it stabilize.

      Due to this event, I felt my passion for this system was dead. I cannot believe a big company will do things like this to force their users to do what they want. Thank you for this life lesson, whoever who had made this decision. Thank you so much.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #174572 Reply

      Cybertooth
      AskWoody Lounger

      So, after a few successful upgrades, Win 10 Home & Pro users will likely need to “pray” that their devices/computers can still be upgraded to the next Version, especially from 2020 onwards.

      There may be a business opportunity in someone offering to install Linux on all these machines that will be left unsupported in coming versions of Windows 10.

       

      2 users thanked author for this post.

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    Reply To: Patch Lady – Microsoft admits the bug (again)

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