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  • Win10 usage share drifts down in March, Win7 goes up

    Posted on April 3rd, 2018 at 06:11 woody Comment on the AskWoody Lounge

    Gregg Keizer has the details:

    According to analytics vendor Net Applications, Windows 10 lost eight-tenths of a percentage point in user share… during March, ending the month on 33.3% of the world’s PCs… But the screeching stop was accompanied by an even larger increase in Windows 7’s user share: The veteran OS added 1.8 percentage points to its tally, ending March with 43.4%, slightly more than Net Applications had pegged it at in November 2017.

    Sobering.

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    Home Forums Win10 usage share drifts down in March, Win7 goes up

    This topic contains 60 replies, has 24 voices, and was last updated by

     GoneToPlaid 11 months, 3 weeks ago.

    • Author
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    • #180887 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      Gregg Keizer has the details: According to analytics vendor Net Applications, Windows 10 lost eight-tenths of a percentage point in user share… duri
      [See the full post at: Win10 usage share drifts down in March, Win7 goes up]

      5 users thanked author for this post.
    • #180901 Reply

      MrJimPhelps
      AskWoody_MVP

      It would be interesting if someone were to make a Linux interface called, say, “Seven”; and release a distro of Linux (say, Mint) with the “Seven” interface that would look and feel exactly like Windows 7, and would have Wine and other similar programs installed which would allow the user to run Windows software. I wonder if it would catch on prior to January 2020?

      Group "L" (Linux Mint)
      with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #180921 Reply

        anonymous

        @mrjimphelps and all
        funny you ask… 🙂
        its already out there and I wonder why nobody said anything (or discover it yet)
        out of respect to woody and many experts here I didnt mention it back then… when grp L was born 😀
        also you can imagine the unfriendly reaction from the higher ups billy and frens
        anyway you can try Zorin – its exactly what you want for XMAS!!!
        Get the Ultimate to get the whole lot…. its only EUR19 anyway 🙂 FOR LIFE!
        They just recently updated the ver so you are lucky to be in on the STABLE version.
        p/s its pretty much install and use but good to learn abit more before you decide to ‘kill’ your old OS 4ever… or you can go dual-boot or VM or run on disc/USB/portable or whatever suits you
        good luck hv fun 🙂

        p/s im staying w w7 until unless they really really [edit] – that be sad… but I have a WORKING standby win-like interface OS to switch over ALMOST seamlessly 🙂
        back to fishing for better dreams

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #180996 Reply

          Sessh
          AskWoody Lounger

          I tried Zorin Ultimate before Mint and find Mint to be superior in almost every way to Zorin. Nautilus is trash. I replaced it with Nero which comes standard with Mint. Everything in Mint is easier than the same thing in Zorin. It’s really not even close. Mint also has far more customizations that come standard without having to install anything else.

          I highly recommend Mint over Zorin. I had to wrestle with it to get it to how I wanted it only to find out that Mint had everything the way I wanted it right out of the box pretty much. Using Zorin first did result in me learning some things fast that probably would have taken me longer in Mint just because a lot of it would have been unnecessary, so I am glad I used Zorin first. In the end however, Mint is far superior. It’s not close, either. 🙂

          • #181052 Reply

            anonymous

            Yep, Zorin felt to Macintoshy (restrictive) to me.  “Do it our way or look for some thing else” is not for me.  That is the reason I used to use Windows for over 30 years not Macs.  Same feeling happens on Windows 10 (an alphabetical list is NOT the start menu), Elementary OS (no icons on the desktop??) and Gnome/Cinnamon based distros.  I’m sure there is a way to customize it but it is not easily found and I’m not going to edit text files, install classic starts, or mess with the registry just to get my task bar to look right.  Closest to usable if not better than Windows 7 have been KDE based distros for me.  Currently trying KDE Neon since Mint KDE is discontinued.

            1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #181105 Reply

              Sessh
              AskWoody Lounger

              What’s wrong with Cinnamon? I’m using Mint Cinnamon (Sylvia) and customization hasn’t been difficult at all. Granted, I can only do so much in a VM, but seems pretty feature rich to me right from the System Settings screen. No editing of text files or anything. That’s the stuff that Zorin demanded, but I’ve not run into that at all with Mint Cinnamon.

              Honestly, I don’t think i want Linux to look just like Windows 7 or any Windows. I want it to be a little different. Similar, but not trying to be Windows. If I want something that looks like Windows 7, I’ll just use Windows 7. 🙂

            • #181279 Reply

              anonymous

              Agreed, Windows 7 is not the holy grail of GUIs and if anyone comes up with something better I’m all for it.  Still it is better than OSX and the “you don’t need to know concept” it uses which most Linux DEs try to emulate.  Every time someone shows up with a Mac complaining that it is slow they have all the apps the ever used open and running on startup.  The little dot indicators in the dock just are not good enough to let most people know that that app is running.  Also, closing an app window(s) does not quit the app.  As for Cinnamon how do you add a custom program or script that was not installed via repository in the um… “start” menu?  If I remember correctly I had to create a .desktop text file somewhere.

              1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #181209 Reply

              MrJimPhelps
              AskWoody_MVP

              With Elementary OS, you click in the upper left of the screen on the Applications link; then right-click on any icon you want on the screen (in the Dock at the bottom of the screen) and choose “Attach to Dock” (or something like that).

              Group "L" (Linux Mint)
              with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
            • #181275 Reply

              anonymous

              Yep, got that, I like to keep files (documents) I am working on – on the desktop organized in folders if needed.  Power-on, login, click the file to be worked on and I’m off working.  Elementary wants you to either open the app the file is for and open it from the app or find the file manager go to the folder and click the file.  The OS as default, does not let you add files or shortcuts to the desktop it is more restrictive than OSX in this case.  There is a way to make it do this but requires editing configs and installing extra programs.   If I want my desktop messy but usable it should be my choice.

               

            • #181343 Reply

              Cybertooth
              AskWoody Lounger

              Kubuntu’s Application Menu (its Windows Start Menu equivalent) has a “Recent Documents” line, which when clicked on displays a fly-out list of the last x number of files that have been been opened. This is much like the “Recent Items” list in the Vista/Windows 7 Start Menu. It’s my go-to list when I’m working at that computer.

              In Kubuntu you can also place documents on the desktop, for opening with minimum mousing and clicking.

               

            • #181497 Reply

              anonymous

              In KDE you can also place folder widgets as sort of containers on your desktop showing other folders as icons-in-a-box, very handy.  Project done? Close the container and the files stay in their location but are off your desktop.  No moving files necessary.  Multiple desktops with different content and “Activities” (which I haven’t explored yet) are also available.

              There are so many features it can be daunting but once you find the useful ones for you you can ignore the rest.  Which is better than longing for the features you would like to have that are not there.

        • #181227 Reply

          woody
          Da Boss

          Group L is alive and well. Long live Group L.

          I’m tending more and more toward Group C (= Chromebook) but I guess that’s just a variation on Group L…

          • #181505 Reply

            MrJimPhelps
            AskWoody_MVP

            I think it is great to have a group “C” for Chromebook. As for group “L”, it could be Group “Lx”, the “x” being the letter of the distro you are using. For example, Group “LM” would be “Linux Mint”.

            In one way, Group L and Group C are alike – they are both part of Group NM (non-Microsoft)!

            But Group L and Group C are fundamentally different at the most basic level — With Linux, everything you have and everything you do is installed and run locally (and privately), whereas with Chromebook, everything you have and everything you do is “online” and is being monitored by Big Brother Google.

            Group "L" (Linux Mint)
            with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
            2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #180955 Reply

        OscarCP
        AskWoody Plus

        I imagine that could happen, right after the last MS attack lawyer takes early retirement before the final users’ adoption rate collapse of the “last Windows ever.”

         

      • #181086 Reply

        lurks about
        AskWoody Lounger

        The Cinnamon desktop is a typical, traditional desktop very similar to Windows XP or 7. From people I have seen transition to Cinnamon, it takes a few minutes to get oriented. The primary issue is the where the system configuration tools are located and how to use them. The menu is organized by logical groups (Games, Office, Internet, etc.); a difference that no one seems to have any trouble with.

        The Cinnamon desktop is the standard desktop for Linux Mint but it can be installed on any distro. Many make it an easy option to install, if not a default option.

        • #181166 Reply

          anonymous

          Yes, agree.

          Non-free Win XP and Win 7 are superior to any free Linux distro, in terms of user-friendliness, GUI(= non-Command Prompts), program and hardware support out-of-the-box.
          ___ Linux Mint Cinnamon especially suits the transition of Win XP/Vista/7 users who have rejected the Win 10 fiasco from July 2015 onward.

          Transitioning from Win XP/Vista/7 to ChromeOS, MacOS or Archlinux is a bit more unfamiliar and difficult.

          • #181205 Reply

            lurks about
            AskWoody Lounger

            My observation is the users who have the most trouble transitioning between OSes are the ‘power users’. The average user, as long as the OS obeys basic principles, seem to need a brief tutorial about how the GUI is organized. Once they get the hang of it, often they do not need much help. What I have noticed about people I help who have moved away from Windows is a dramatic drop in support required.

            As far as what I would recommend someone consider is for a new device look at a Chromebook or Mac depending on budget and for an existing device Linux Mint unless it is very old then a distro designed for aged hardware. I would not recommend Arch Linux to a new Linux user because it requires more willingness to learn the inner workings of an OS and I use Manjaro/Arch and Linux Mint.

            2 users thanked author for this post.
            • #181215 Reply

              AlexEiffel
              AskWoody_MVP

              So true! Users often don’t see a lot of the subtle differences that power users tear their shirt over. But of course they often look puzzled when a power user do the same job more than 4 times as fast. Still, it is great that Linux can be a good facebook machine without much support. Since I installed Mint to my computer illiterate (with all respect) aunt about a month ago, she seems happy and I didn’t hear about any issue. She is not scared of Windows 10 updates no more.

              1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #180911 Reply

      anonymous

      This whole situation reminds me of the images of people jumping to their deaths from the burning World Trade Center towers in NYC.  Forced with the prospect of being burned alive they chose to jump.

      2020 is a meaningless number for the people who correctly perceive Win 10 to be the equivalent of stepping off the ledge.  Win 7 is the safety of the ledge.  2020 is not the fire and all too many people (for Microsoft’s plans) will not leap.  It will take a real fire, like stuff not working in Win 7 and only working in Win 10 to force that jump.  That was what forced most of the Win XP holdouts to Win 7.  And Win 7 was actually a usable operating system unlike Win 10.

      Right now, everything works in Win 7 and a whole bunch of stuff either doesn’t work or keeps breaking in Win 10.  Talk about a disincentive!

      So far not a single client in my user base has either plans or a desire to move to Win 10 and I’ve been asked to make plans to address the continued use of Win 7.  Interestingly enough, the hardest hit are my health care customers, who can’t move to Win 10 because it isn’t HIPAA compliant (Win 10 home and Pro are defined as not HIPAA compliant – Win 10 Enterprise is claimed to be configurable to be HIPAA compliant but has failed security testing even when configured “properly”, if there is such a thing).    HIPAA security audits in 2020 will be quite interesting.

      • #180960 Reply

        Bill C.
        AskWoody Plus

        That is why MS has to keep ruining Windows 7 with faulty patches. Only the hands-on, tech-savvy users will remain on Win7 and the PC as a appliance folks will have fled to Win10 or iPads and Macs.

        Win10 regular users (i.e., those NOT under an IT administrator) will retreat to their phones or tablets, if MS does not get that track and the forced updates fixed.

      • #181082 Reply

        wdburt1
        AskWoody Plus

        I raised this point a few months ago: Annual financial audits of publicly traded companies are required to include sworn verifications by officers that their internal processes under control, including security.

        Businesses involved in activities that might attract terrorists–airlines, railroads, trucking companies, shipping companies, airport and port authorities–are expected to meet even higher expectations.  Railroads, for instance, are required by regulation to have a separate security plan.  Computer systems that casually allow outside parties to access sensitive user data do not meet that test.

        I’ve been wondering when the tech world is going to get serious about this.  So far it seems that there are no grownups in the room.

         

         

        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #181087 Reply

        lurks about
        AskWoody Lounger

        Too many industries have strict data protection requirements not just healthcare. Also many in these industries work in small shops that typically use the Professional version not the Enterprise. If they get caught leaking data to a third party it is not pretty for them as the law does not care how it happened or who the third party is.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #180937 Reply

      anonymous

      I got a chuckle out of 33-1/3 (approx.) broken record but I guess I’m just showing my age!

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #180946 Reply

        Microfix
        AskWoody MVP

        Could have been a 78 (no that’s not my age) 🙂

        | W10 Pro x64 1803 | W8.1 Pro x64 | Linux x64 Hybrids | W7 Pro x64/ XP Pro O/L
          Can't see the wood for the trees? Look again!
    • #180942 Reply

      Seff
      AskWoody Plus

      Interesting article thanks, and not remotely surprising.

      Yet still Microsoft stumbles on, its corporate head firmly buried ever deeper in the sand…

      3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #181112 Reply

        Cascadian
        AskWoody Lounger

        Sand. That is not the word I thought I would find at the end of that sentence. You are a kindhearted person.

        3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #180952 Reply

      OscarCP
      AskWoody Plus

      Hmm… But users’ share is so yesterday!

      Skynet, the AI, answering for Mr. Nadella, not available at this time.

       

    • #180975 Reply

      moonbear
      AskWoody Lounger

      By this point I’m convinced that Microsoft has found a way to keep their investors and stockholders from seeing reports like this, how else can the Microsoft business model be explained? Seriously though, I would love to be a fly on the wall during the next stock meeting to see it explained just how Windows 7 has actually GAINED almost 2 percent user share. One has to wonder when the people with money on the line will start questioning why Windows 10 has almost stopped gaining users when the launch idea for this OS was to give it away for FREE!

      • #181064 Reply

        Ascaris
        AskWoody_MVP

        Moonbear,

        It is evident that Microsoft no longer considers Windows to be a key product.  Windows used to feature prominently in their presentations and “where we’re going” kind of statements, but now it isn’t even mentioned, or if so, only in passing.  In the last few days, we’ve seen reports of how Windows division leader Terry Myerson is leaving MS, and his department is being eliminated.  Windows isn’t important enough to warrant its own division anymore.

        In short, the Microsoft business model of which you speak simply doesn’t include Windows.  In this “mobile first, cloud first world,” Windows is legacy baggage from the old Microsoft that they would probably just as soon get rid of, and I’ve long suspected that their aggression toward their Windows-using customers is a means to that end.

        I really wish they’d instead sell Windows to some company that is still interested in such things, or even to open-source it, but neither of those gives them the hedge that keeping Windows does: if something changes and someone realizes that Windows is actually important, they can always go back IF they still own Windows.  Selling it or open-sourcing it is so… final, and in the case of open-sourcing, it’s essentially giving away an asset that still holds considerable value, which is not Microsoft’s style.

        This uptick in Windows 7 share is a tiny positive sign, as I see it; any sign that Windows 10 is being rejected is positive, and I do think that anyone who isn’t happy with this new “Windows as a Service” schema ought to reject 10 rather than use it and try to mitigate the worst of it, but it’s important to keep things in perspective.  Registering our disgust by keeping away from 10, in the hopes that MS will one day see the error of its ways, is a long shot, and that’s probably understating it by a good bit.  This is, after all, not the first time this downturn in Windows 10 usage (with a commensurate uptick in 7 usage) has happened since the release of Windows 10.  It’s always been just a blip, sometimes lasting a couple of months, but eventually the slow march toward Windows 10 dominance continues.

        I hold out very little hope that Microsoft will see the continued avoidance of 10 and have a eureka moment where they decide to finally give us the Windows we want.  For that to happen, Microsoft would have to start caring about the long-term health of Windows as a platform and the satisfaction of Windows users, and I do not see how they’re ever going to budge on that.  Not with Mr. Cloud at the helm, certainly.

        I’ve come to miss Steve Ballmer.

        Group "L" (KDE Neon User Edition 5.15.3 & Kubuntu 18.04).

        8 users thanked author for this post.
        • #181211 Reply

          MrJimPhelps
          AskWoody_MVP

          I’ve come to miss Bill Gates.

          Group "L" (Linux Mint)
          with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #181283 Reply

            Microfix
            AskWoody MVP

            I don’t miss XP Pro, as I still use it in an offline capacity with older programs.

            It just works!..a masterpiece from MS

            | W10 Pro x64 1803 | W8.1 Pro x64 | Linux x64 Hybrids | W7 Pro x64/ XP Pro O/L
              Can't see the wood for the trees? Look again!
        • #181287 Reply

          moonbear
          AskWoody Lounger

          You are sadly most likely right, I really don’t think Microsoft CAN have a eureka moment. But at the same time, I still hold out hope that someone somewhere in that company will notice when more and more of the money (users) keeps disappearing.

      • #181100 Reply

        anonymous

        I can give you one explanation from real life experiences. Most people didn’t want Windows 10 and in their minds, it just installed itself one day. They complain to people that they have it and want it gone, and eventually, someone knows someone who knows how to put Windows 7 back on their machine.

        I did it for someone I didn’t even know not to long ago, they complained to someone, who pass the story on to a friend of mine, who then said they knew someone who might be able to get Windows 7 reinstalled for them. They even gave me a $20. Hey! Maybe that’s Microsoft’s plan: Windows 10 is free so people like me can make money/food/etc helping people reinstall Windows for them. Great way to stimulate the economy of me. 🙂

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #180995 Reply

      Sessh
      AskWoody Lounger

      Don’t let this fool you. Windows 7 is almost dead just like MS and her fanboys continuously say even though it couldn’t be more obvious that they are completely and categorically wrong.

      This report is really no surprise at all. The people are speaking loud and clear here. Too bad no one wants to listen. It wouldn’t surprise me to see Windows 7 still around 40% after EOL and still be ahead of Windows 10.

      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #180997 Reply

      anonymous

      This likely means some who had upgraded to Win 10 rolled back to or reinstalled Win 7, some who had bought new OEM Win 10 computers installed Linux on them and some with multiple Windows machines opted to use Win 7 and not use Win 10.

      Will this trend continue ?

    • #181006 Reply

      EstherD
      AskWoody Plus

      As someone with a math and physical sciences background, I have to wonder about reports like this. Always left unstated is the measurement error in these statistics. Seems likely that it’s in the range of plus-or-minus a couple of points (at least). If so, then a month-to-month change of less than a point or two is statistically insignificant, “in the noise” as we used to say, and therefore quite meaningless.

      (Perhaps that explains why the Wall Street Boys aren’t concerned; they understand the math.)

      7 users thanked author for this post.
      • #181091 Reply

        lurks about
        AskWoody Lounger

        Another way of reading the statistics is change in users of both is essentially flat for the month. But without any official figures from MS, one is reduced to reading whatever tea leaves are available. And I put more stock in the fact MS is not crowing about W10 adoption rates as a sign they are not very good.

        • #181108 Reply

          Sessh
          AskWoody Lounger

          To add to that, usage share statistics never move by more than a percentage point or two per month. They just aren’t going to move that fast, so I don’t think they are “insignificant” in any way. One or two percentage points is just about all you’re going to get per month if that. These stats move slowly. but that doesn’t mean they are insignificant. We’re not doing scientific studies here. 🙂

          • #181289 Reply

            Microfix
            AskWoody MVP

            What was it Mark Twain stated about statistics..? Say no more AFAIC

            | W10 Pro x64 1803 | W8.1 Pro x64 | Linux x64 Hybrids | W7 Pro x64/ XP Pro O/L
              Can't see the wood for the trees? Look again!
      • #181115 Reply

        Cascadian
        AskWoody Lounger

        As a snapshot, yes, absolutely meaningless. Particularly following a month that moved in the other direction. The value could sit there bobbing up and down indefinitely. But.

        But string together several months of 1% growth successively, well then, that’s something very significant. And if we have two steps back, to one step forward, to one step back, etc. well then we’re line dancing our way into a direction known as a trend.

        My predictive ability is not all that good. But it is entertaining to watch.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #181195 Reply

        AlexN
        AskWoody Lounger

        Good thought.

        Given the past 12 months changes in W10 and W7 share, the error is probably a fraction (maybe 1/4 to 3/4) of a percentage point, thus making the statistics be slightly significant.  Now the statistical error on the individual measurements is up for debate and might be as much as 5% or 10%…

        Fortran, C++, R, Python, Java, Matlab, HTML, CSS, etc.... coding is fun!
        A weatherman that can code

    • #181013 Reply

      anonymous

      I’ve already seen users starting to move to tablets for most of their home use.  I’m personally against relying on tablets as I find their OS and form factor to be too limiting, most use integrated or non-standard batteries, and few have a lifespan above 3 years.

      A good PC is still better option but finding applications, or configuration settings, but with Win10’s UI being as obtuse as a tablets now I guess users don’t see the difference.

    • #181026 Reply

      EspressoWillie
      AskWoody Plus

      Current percent doesn’t suprise me. My business clients, which many are banks and healthcare are staying on Windows 7. Much of it is compatibility with their old core processors or other applications that don’t run or not as well using Windows 10. So I must support both.

      Sad!

      Cheers!!
      Willie McClure
      www.datarim.com
      Talk's cheap, takes money to buy whiskey.
      • #181117 Reply

        OscarCP
        AskWoody Plus

        Same story with people hanging on with Windows xp as long as possible (in my case until Windows 7) when Vista came out.

        But waiting out Windows 10 with Win 7, or even 8.1, probably won’t work now, given how determinedly MS is planning to put Windows-as-a-work-tool to pasture, somewhere over the rainbow and up in the Cloud, and move on to (what they see as ) greener and much, much cooler pastures of their own.

         

        • This reply was modified 11 months, 3 weeks ago by
           OscarCP.
        • This reply was modified 11 months, 3 weeks ago by
           OscarCP.
    • #181054 Reply

      Jan K.
      AskWoody Lounger

      … the screeching stop was accompanied by an even larger increase in Windows 7’s user share: The veteran OS added 1.8 percentage points to its tally…

      Hmmm… 1.8% is what? +30 million users finally having enough of the fun?

      I still foresee Linux application development will speed up over the next two to three years…

      • #181120 Reply

        OscarCP
        AskWoody Plus

        I very much hope so.

        Maybe, metaphorically speaking, someone, somewhere, has an invitation to the King’s dance for the Linux developer with the prettiest, daintiest feet?

    • #181073 Reply

      Cybertooth
      AskWoody Lounger

      Interestingly enough, the hardest hit are my health care customers, who can’t move to Win 10 because it isn’t HIPAA compliant (Win 10 home and Pro are defined as not HIPAA compliant – Win 10 Enterprise is claimed to be configurable to be HIPAA compliant but has failed security testing even when configured “properly”, if there is such a thing). HIPAA security audits in 2020 will be quite interesting.

      Good point. If Windows 10 is not HIPAA compliant, I wonder what dentists’ offices and doctors’ offices, which can’t afford to shell out thousands of $$$ for Enterprise licenses, will do in 2020. I also wonder about those offices that got caught in the GWX campaign and have no way of going back to Windows 7 now.

       

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #181076 Reply

        PKCano
        Da Boss

        That was a real problem for my in-single-practice. When GWX hit, he had just upgraded his niche software (works with all the dental equipment, gives real-time look at x-ray, etc) from XP and had to replace all the computers as well. When I saw the GWX icon in the tray, I warned him to get his computer support person immediately. He would have been up a creek to come in and find Win10 on all his computers. If the machines were not borked, the software would surely have been.

        Same scenario at my veterinarian’ office.Older equipment and niche software.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #181085 Reply

      WildBill
      AskWoody Plus

      Here’s an article that depicts the slow but sure decline & dismantling of Windows as a division: https://stratechery.com/2018/the-end-of-windows/.

      That’s what we plan to do…We need to move from people needing Windows to choosing Windows to loving Windows…We want to make Windows 10 the most loved release of Windows.

      Where’s the “loving Windows” now, Satya? Feel free to comment, Loungers… No wonder people here have moved or are researching a move from Windows. And probably Microsoft as well…

      Windows 8.1, 64-bit, now in Group B!
      Wild Bill Rides Again...

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #181098 Reply

        wdburt1
        AskWoody Plus

        An interesting article, moreso because the author has attempted the first draft of a business history.  His conclusion that Nadella is right to go off chasing butterflies is, however, abrupt and unsupported.

        I’d rather not wait to see whether he is right.  The best outcome would be for Nadella and his supportive board to sell Windows.

        Carl Icahn, where are you when we need you?

         

         

         

         

        • #181101 Reply

          Zaphyrus
          AskWoody Lounger

          even if they sell microsoft, they should be able to sell it to someone that knoew what he is doing…

          Just someone who don't want Windows to mess with its computer.
          • #181177 Reply

            Seff
            AskWoody Plus

            It would probably go to Russian venture capitalists – people should beware what they wish for!

            All it needs is for someone high enough up in the company to realise the full extent of what they’ve done, and show some determination to undo it. There’s no reason why they can’t pursue all their objectives in relation to the cloud etc, just don’t ditch the means by which most users will access those objectives.

      • #181104 Reply

        Carl D
        AskWoody Lounger

        “We need to move from people needing Windows to choosing Windows to loving Windows…We want to make Windows 10 the most loved release of Windows.”

        – Satya Nadella

        I was always under the impression that the word love was meant to be reserved for describing feelings between two people – not inanimate objects and certainly not computer software.

        A better choice of word would have been “like”.

      • #181121 Reply

        AlexEiffel
        AskWoody_MVP

        Very Interesting.

        From Nadella: “At our core, Microsoft is the productivity and platform company for the mobile-first and cloud-first world.”

        The problem is the world is not mobile first when it comes to business. A lot of essential serious work is done on the desktop and this is not about to change. In my business, only 6% of customers access our web site with mobile devices. We are B2B, our clients work on desktops. Mobile simply can’t fill this need as well and I don’t think it ever will.

        If Nadella was selling games to the mobile-first world, maybe it would make sense, but productivity? They might get a good chunk of market with on the road people, but focusing exclusively on mobile and cloud, they risk loosing a good part of market they had so easily locked in.

        I find the author’s thoughts interesting, but I am not sure he is right. It is easy to say Windows is less important because it fails when maybe the reason it fails right now is precisely because the focus is wrong and they did all kind of things that are cloud-first, less privacy, mobile first on it, starting with 8 and its one interface for all. Stabbing the cow and then saying, we are right to just feed the pig because the cow is dying anyway might not be that great as a strategy.

        No doubt there is a future for Microsoft in the cloud and services, but does it really need to get rid of the rest to do that? The problem is there is no easy substitute for Windows in many cases so they risk having a ton of unprotected Windows 7 running past 2020, and might end up acting irresponsibly as a corporate citizen when it comes to ensuring their products don’t end up lowering the global security of the Internet if they stop patching and Windows 10 isn’t adopted. People need Windows and destroying it is going to hurt lots of businesses.

        However, reading the article made me realize maybe pushing Windows aside might end up being a good idea, because it looks like maybe it won’t have the pressure to tie everything together. Maybe as a more independent project, there will be less pressure on it to tie and sell the rest and it might end up getting developed in a way that is closer to what the people who are attached to what Windows was want.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #181095 Reply

      Bill C.
      AskWoody Plus

      Here is another measure of Windows 10 adoption. This is based upon gaming. The link below contains snapshots of a survey of systems using the Steam Gaming Platform and SteamOS.

      http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/directx/

      The top part of the survey shows OS usage based on data gathered by using the Steam Gaming Platform (telemetry). The rest is what version of DirectX and GPU is being used and what version of DirectX the GPU supports. For more snapshots back up to http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey.

      Windows 7 64-bit in November 2017 was 71.07%. In March 2018, it had dropped to 58.26% for a -11.42% drop.

      Windows 10-64 bit in November 2017 was at 24.05%, but by March 2018 rose to 36.45%, for a +10.60% gain.

      My take is that this is primarily for two reasons, 1., gamers want the fastest and newest hardware, which will not run Windows 7 due to the processor limitations MS has imposed, AND 2., DX12 gaming titles are getting more common, and DX12 is native to Windows 10 only.

      Another possible rationale might also be due the impact of performance losses caused by the Meltdown/Spectre mitigations are reported to be less severe on new hardware running Windows 10. the Windows 10 share did jump beginning in January 2018.

    • #181113 Reply

      OscarCP
      AskWoody Plus

      I have worked, and even labored, under several not quite user-friendly operating systems: PDP 8, PDP 11, IBM JCL, CDC KRONOS and NOS, VAX, UNIX, etc. so am not hung up on loving, or even much liking, the OS in my machine: I want to use it to do what I need done and, as much as possible, without hassles.

      And without the system being changed time and again, because someone that does not even know I exist, not to mention what I use the system for, thinks it is cool, forcing me to keep on re-leaning how to do things with it and to keep on modifying things I had made and were already running just fine under its previous version.

      And, of course, without virtual hands coming out of the PC either to take the money I must pay to be allowed the continuing use of my own machine, or else to switch it off in my face and hide the CPU.

      But then again, no one has ever accused me of being cool.

       

      • This reply was modified 11 months, 3 weeks ago by
         OscarCP.
      • This reply was modified 11 months, 3 weeks ago by
         OscarCP.
      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #181297 Reply

      GoneToPlaid
      AskWoody Plus

      There seems to be a lot of negativity in many of the responses. I suggest that everyone get with the program by wholeheartedly embracing Microsoft’s vision for Windows. This is easy to do, if you are willing to mentally adjust your thinking to be in line with Microsoft’s vision:

      Everyone is supposed to love Windows! You are supposed to enjoy the Experience of updating Windows and helping Microsoft to figure out their own inept Windows Update programming bugs so that Microsoft can make Windows better! You are supposed to enjoy uninstalling bad Windows Updates so that Microsoft can then fix these bugs and eventually make Windows a better Experience for you to enjoy! You are supposed to enjoy having to take the time to periodically make full backups of your Windows OS hard drive partition so that you know that you can recover your beloved Windows installation from botched Windows updates which either brick your computer or which fail to properly uninstall! This is all part of Microsoft’s newly proclaimed goals for the Windows Experience — that users should both want and love Windows instead of actually simply needing Windows to merely work reliably.

      Again, this is all part of the Windows Experience! Microsoft wants all Windows users to focus on Windows itself, such that Windows is always at the forefront of your thoughts. Mundane things such as actually getting work done on your computer, in which the Windows operating system is merely in the background and out of the way, is not part of how Microsoft has newly re-imagined the Windows Experience.

      Get with the program and enjoy the Windows Experience! If you do so, then your life will be so much easier. Forget about work. Forget about bonuses for actually getting things done while at work. These things are NOT part of the Windows Experience since the Windows Experience is supposed to be all about Windows and nothing else!

       

      4 users thanked author for this post.
      • #181342 Reply

        Cybertooth
        AskWoody Lounger

        And to think that, not so long ago, Microsoft’s stated goal was to make the Windows “experience” so seamless that the OS would recede into the (mental) background. Instead, as you point out, in recent years the OS itself has become the focus of too many Windows users’ experience, to our great chagrin. Too many UI changes and too much borked updating.

         

    • #181346 Reply

      Ascaris
      AskWoody_MVP

      As for Cinnamon how do you add a custom program or script that was not installed via repository in the um… “start” menu? If I remember correctly I had to create a .desktop text file somewhere.

      Right click the main menu (“Start” in Windows) button, then select Configure.  Click the Menu tab, then the large button that says “open the menu editor.” From there, it should be self-explanatory.

      Group "L" (KDE Neon User Edition 5.15.3 & Kubuntu 18.04).

      • #181579 Reply

        OscarCP
        AskWoody Plus

        I would add that, although I have not used it, I have reason to believe Mint/Cinnamon to be Linux with a friendlier face, then all scripts and programs can also be installed and then launched from the Linux command line using its version of the standard Linux application called “Terminal” (equivalent to the black-window “command prompt” in Windows).

        In addition to information found online on how to use Ubuntu and Mint, I recommend the manual on line commands, shells, etc: O’Reilly’s “The UNIX CD Bookshelf” (a book + a CD), also relevant to LINUX, except for the Bash shell, that I believe can still be bought from Amazon. And also John Goerzen’s “Linux Programming Bible” — my own version was printed by IDG Books.

         

         

    • #181372 Reply

      anonymous

      Perhaps this MS blog Microsoft will invest $5 billion in IoT. Here’s why. will explain why/where MS’ focus has changed.

      IMO the whole gamut of IoT is still fledgling and not proven as either beneficial or secure. I would have more confidence in Microsoft’s $5 billion commitment to IoT if it had a proven track record in ‘stuff’ other than Windows, Office and, more recently, Azure. Unfortunately its history is littered with failure other than these 3 core areas.

      If the company cannot keep its own products stable and secure (and welcome/popular) then I have my doubts – particularly with its (past?) love of developing proprietary ‘standards/protocols’ and, perhaps more importantly, the recent controversy about Windows 10 now losing share to Windows 7 in terms of usage – that this is anything other than a ‘We can do it’ puff piece to keep investors from dumping stock.

      I suspect Microsoft’s day of ‘global relevance’ has come and gone, thanks mainly to the direction it has been led since the days of Bill Gates then Steve Ballmer.

      Surgeons know that when the rot sets in, they need to to be brutal with the scalpel before gangrene kills the patient. In Microsoft’s case it’s happened over the last three and a bit years. How much longer before Satya Nadella is cauterized in order to save Microsoft… or is it just too late?

      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #181692 Reply

        GoneToPlaid
        AskWoody Plus

        I figure that it is too late as of a day or two ago, when Nadella broke apart all Windows. This decision will both sting and reverberate.

    Please follow the -Lounge Rules- no personal attacks, no swearing, and politics/religion are relegated to the Rants forum.

    Reply To: Win10 usage share drifts down in March, Win7 goes up

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