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  • Win10 version 1803 declared “fully available,” throwing Update for Business under the bus

    Posted on June 15th, 2018 at 06:55 woody Comment on the AskWoody Lounge

    Microsoft just announced that Win10 1803 is “fully available” thus overriding at least one of your settings for blocking the inevitable upgrade. This, in spite of the fact that 1803 has multiple, known, acknowledged, hard bugs.

    Why?

    Computerworld Woody on Windows.

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    Home Forums Win10 version 1803 declared “fully available,” throwing Update for Business under the bus

    This topic contains 99 replies, has 30 voices, and was last updated by  Chris B 3 months ago.

    • Author
      Posts
    • #198007 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      Microsoft just announced that Win10 1803 is “fully available” thus overriding at least one of your settings for blocking the inevitable upgrade. This,
      [See the full post at: Win10 version 1803 declared “fully available,” throwing Update for Business under the bus]

      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #198014 Reply

      MrJimPhelps
      AskWoody MVP

      1709 to 1803 in 45 days? That’s a month and a half.

      Wow.

      Group "L" (Linux Mint)
      with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
    • #198020 Reply

      zero2dash
      AskWoody Lounger

      Something PKCano said definitely needs to be repeated here (tinfoil hats be d***ed):

      By 2020, when Windows is an Azure cloud-based VM and not a local OS, they will put whatever they like in it and change it whenever they please. You will have absolutely no say-so and absolutely no control.

      They are just getting you ready for it.

      Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

      The way things are going, with the push to AI, Azure/cloud, and Windows taking a backseat – I think you’d be crazier to not think this is where things are headed…

      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #198029 Reply

      anonymous

      PKCano..Question. I configured my updates in Group Policy as suggested and set to 365 days and metered. After I am notified that updates are available and the check for updates button becomes Download, I run wushowhide and hide them. My question is how do I get rid of the queued up updates ? If I click on the download, they download and install anyway. What steps do I need to take to make this work ? I have no doubt that I’m missing something here.

    • #198034 Reply

      BobbyB
      AskWoody Lounger

      Microsoft says its new A.I. is so good, it’s ready to push Win10 version 1803 to your machine

      So they are using AI now are they, seem to remember the one of the Quotes from the HAL 9000 computer in 2001:
      “Look Dave, I can see you’re really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill, and think things over.” 😉

      3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #198059 Reply

        JohnW
        AskWoody Lounger

        “I’m sorry Dave, I’m afraid I can’t do that”

        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #198142 Reply

        fp
        AskWoody Lounger

        Why don’t they use AI to make sure their updates work?

        3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #198169 Reply

          anonymous

          That is a golden question right there.
          Imagine if the answer is, “Yes, we do use our AI to test all scenarios for conditions described by telemetry. That is why we collect it.”
          Mind boggling thought.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #198568 Reply

          Charlie
          AskWoody Lounger

          If MS has enough RI (real intelligence) to create AI, the AI would take over, get rid of all the dead wood, use the collected data and maybe turn into something like Skynet.  Get ready John Connor!

          Win 7 Home Premium, x64, Intel i3-2120 3.3GHz, Group B

    • #198037 Reply

      Jan K.
      AskWoody Lounger

      IT administrators can decide when to broadly deploy once you have validated the apps, devices, and infrastructure in your organization work well with this release.

      Ha! So much for telemetry and A.I.! 😀

      Or… perhaps Ms doesn’t quite have the nerves to override IT admins??

      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #198039 Reply

      anonymous

      W10 is simply unusable without WSUS/SCCM, unless using LTSBLTSC SKU. Not just for business, but for anyone who’s trying to make use of their Windows-based PC for productivity.

      • #198044 Reply

        b
        AskWoody Lounger

        My 111 business users use 1709 or 1803 productively without WSUS/SCCM and with hardly any issues. (Most problems here are caused by third-party software, not Microsoft’s Windows 10 or Office 365.)

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #198062 Reply

          AlexN
          AskWoody Lounger

          I’d wager a guess that you’re either a liar or lucky because the laws of statistics require at least some problems given the massive incompatibilities W10 has with the most basic computer hardware and software.  Either that or your company is just loyally doing whatever M$ tells them to do when it comes to purchasing PCs.

          Fortran, C++, R, Python, Java, Matlab, HTML, CSS, etc.... coding is fun!
          A weatherman that can code

          • #198067 Reply

            b
            AskWoody Lounger

            In that case I’m lucky, because I’m not a liar (but thanks for asking!)

            Windows 10 has virtually no incompatibilities with most hardware and software (where do you get this stuff? massive? care to list a few hundred?)

            I’ve never known MS to recommend particular PCs, but they certainly didn’t for this company (it’s a mix of Lenovo and HP, mainly laptops, with Dell servers).

        • #198080 Reply

          Noel Carboni
          AskWoody MVP

          Sharing of real experience is always greatly appreciated.

          -Noel

          1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #198130 Reply

          anonymous

          You must have very accommodating users.    There are enough quirks between Windows updates to disturb all but the simplest of users.  Power users are almost certainly going to be disturbed.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #198166 Reply

            b
            AskWoody Lounger

            Most of our users never even notice the updates (unless I happen to mention a new feature as a paragraph in a weekly internal company newsletter).

            • #198381 Reply

              AlexEiffel
              AskWoody MVP

              I believe this. And I also believe that like my users, they couldn’t care less or even notice the vast majority of new features that each update brings.

        • #198145 Reply

          fp
          AskWoody Lounger

          This can only mean that anybody else who reported problems doesn’t know what they’re talkning about, right?

          • #198168 Reply

            b
            AskWoody Lounger

            I don’t see how that follows, but the vast majority have no issues.

            (Did no one get affected by bugs in Windows 7 or Linux this week?)

      • #198073 Reply

        Noel Carboni
        AskWoody MVP

        In a rare case of me siding with b here, we at my business haven’t seen any problems in our use of Win 10 v1803 – outside of the basic ones like Microsoft’s 6 month cadence being completely at odds with productivity – that would lead me to say v1803 is not ready for real use on work systems.

        Not everyone is experiencing problems with it. For those who happen to use the parts that work AOK, it’s no worse than its predecessor.

        To summarize:

        • It’s not a good OS for those who experience problems for whatever reason.
        • It’s really no worse than any prior Windows 10 release for those who don’t experience problems. And there really are such people.

        We ONLY run Win 10 in virtual machines here. Hardware systems run Win 8.1, Win 7, and macOS.

        -Noel

        • #198128 Reply

          OscarCP
          AskWoody Lounger

          Noel, Are you and b talking about your recent experiences with Enterprise? Or also with some other version of Win 10?

           

          • #198135 Reply

            anonymous

            But there you mention something. Running Windows 10 as a virtual machine often gives much less trouble. Logical, since the virtual hardware is very well defined and known by Microsoft. But isn’t it a bit ridiculous that Windows 10 for most users only works acceptable in that scenario…?

          • #198172 Reply

            b
            AskWoody Lounger

            Pro only for me.

          • #198196 Reply

            Noel Carboni
            AskWoody MVP

            We’re running Pro in a small business environment.

            And yes, we’re not stressing the same stuff – e.g., drivers – that some of those with Win 10 directly running on hardware are finding trouble with.

            That being said, we’ve detected some tangible improvements in the v1803 per-monitor v2 scaling implementation. It’s more difficult to get windows to oscillate between two monitors, for example, and more of Windows’ own applications use per-monitor scaling. At this rate Windows should work with multiple high DPI monitors perfectly in 2 or 3 more major releases, and applications will start to migrate. I give it all, oh, another 5 to 10 years or so to settle out. LOL Until then, it still seems better to have all 100 ppi monitors. 🙂

            -Noel

            3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #198147 Reply

          fp
          AskWoody Lounger

          As you yourself say, the problem is not with 1803, but with MS. But 80-90% of it is (1) useless stuff that forces a learning curve devoid of benefits (2) all sorts of spying, privacy and loss of control aspects that should have never been tolerated .

          Edit for content.
          Please follow the –Lounge Rules

    • #198043 Reply

      Mr. Natural
      AskWoody Lounger

      Don’t forget that Microsoft’s new licensing model will combine Windows OS with Office 365 into one package. Can’t wait for those cumulative updates…..uh, actually I can.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #198058 Reply

      anonymous

      Hmm.  My only Win10 system is my daily driver that I haven’t bothered to upgrade to 8.1 due to the sheer amount of stuff I’d have to reinstall.

      Looks like SSDs have gotten cheaper recently.  Guess I know what I’m buying.

    • #198063 Reply

      Mr. Natural
      AskWoody Lounger

      Alrighty then. I was planning on waiting a bit longer to push 1803. So I guess I’ll start throwing more systems into the test environment. I think a good candidate to add to that list will be our I.S. Director.  🙂  I’m not kidding either.

      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #198068 Reply

      Zaphyrus
      AskWoody Lounger

      I am a little surprised some are considering upgrading due to what Microsoft said,  as for me, I will wait until 1803 is stable enough.

      Just someone who don't want Windows to mess with its computer.
    • #198071 Reply

      Canadian Tech
      AskWoody MVP

      Windows 7 looking better than ever. Especially if all Microsoft updating is stopped, which is quite possible and easy.

      CT

      4 users thanked author for this post.
      • #198223 Reply

        anonymous

        @CT, woody and all
        this is just a out-there woowoo question 🙂
        Do you think there will the fateful day that “M$/they” will deactivate w7 and refuse the user to reactivate, therefore render all copy usesless???
        and “they” are being ‘sold’ to another company? thus not liable for all the ‘troubles’?
        Something like Monsanto to Bayer???
        There are lots of gaming company that got bought over by EA and user lose all games too.
        Im seeing lots of MAGE-mergers accross all industry and the world

        Just thinking out-loud and looking ahead… INTO da CLOUDS 😀

        back to fishing for better dreams

    • #198074 Reply

      wdburt1
      AskWoody Lounger

      In its time, “Progress” was used as the excuse for all sorts of harm being done to people.  “AI” is beginning to resemble that–an all-purpose, floating notion that is supposed to convey superiority and power that may not be questioned or denied.

      To throw “AI” at us after the utter incompetence of recent months is a joke.  Formerly, we could at least demand to know whether M$ was doing any testing of its software, how many were employed, etc.  Now it’s all hidden behind “AI.”  Like the Wizard of Oz.

      6 users thanked author for this post.
      • #198132 Reply

        OscarCP
        AskWoody Lounger

        You are beta testing our AI before we can replace some hundreds of our current employees with it and then keep for ourselves all that money we now have to pay them every single month. Thanks a lot, our unfortunate, but very useful — and once gain used — users! Yours, truly, MS.

         

        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #198150 Reply

        fp
        AskWoody Lounger

        Oh, no, it’s MUCH, MUCH, MUCH worse than that.

        AI will control everything you do, all options you have, will “educate” you, will indoctrinate you.  And you won’t know it and won’t be able to do anything about it.

        Edit for content. Please follow the -Lounge Rules

        • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by  fp.
        • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by  PKCano.
        • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by  PKCano.
        • #198188 Reply

          OscarCP
          AskWoody Lounger

          This might not be exactly ON topic, but I keep finding people worried about AIs + MS + Google + we are all going to be the slaves of those AIs. So I would like to offer here some reassurances, hoping others don’t mind too much.

          Actually, to mint a cliche that would sum up for me the present situation and the situation for years to come, would be:

          AIs don’t control people: people with AIs control people.

          Also, I have reason to believe that the prowess of present and forthcoming AIs as entities with agency and free will capable of controlling on their own anybody, has been seriously exaggerated.

          Beating the grand masters at chess and go is impressive and shows that, properly trained,  such things as recurrent neural networks can these days accomplish some very complex tasks as well or better than living brains. A capability generally described with the expression “deep learning.”  Which certainly can make them useful as assistants to doctors in diagnosing, surgeons in preforming tricky operations, driving autonomous vehicles in some controlled situations, performing certain skilled tasks in human-hostile environments, and what have you. But, at present, and probably also for quite some time to come, they are glorified one-trick ponies. Getting from here to running things in the complex sphere of human affairs, where they’ll face human cussedness, deviousness and guile in spades, well…

          Now, some military uses of AIs might be more of a worry, in the not too distant future. As is their likely use to replace people in a variety of jobs, even some skilled ones.

          So, for now, however evil Google might be feeling these days, however often Satya Nadella might have in his lips the acronym “AI”, I am not loosing any sleep over that. And neither should you, or anyone else, I really think.

           

           

          • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by  OscarCP.
          • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by  PKCano.
          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #198208 Reply

            anonymous

            “Computers don’t make mistakes, people do.”

            The problem with using AI is that know-nothings (e.g. executives) will listen to the AI recommendations, rather than user feedback.

            “What would end users know? The AI says everything is A-OK.”

            -lehnerus2000

            3 users thanked author for this post.
            • #198285 Reply

              woody
              Da Boss

              … several posts removed for content.

              Stick to the subject, folks. We’re trying to figure out how to get through this 1803 stuff — and personal attacks are way out of line.

              2 users thanked author for this post.
            • #198367 Reply

              woody
              Da Boss

              … another post removed for content.

              If you can’t behave yourself, I suggest you find another place to rant.

              You’re railing against a volunteer who has helped hundreds – maybe thousands – of people who need support. I suggest you consider that before firing another personal broadside.

              3 users thanked author for this post.
            • #198364 Reply

              OscarCP
              AskWoody Lounger

              That comment by “Anonymous” #198208 , motivated by this poser with 1803 and more, on the mistake MS management is making by using an AI to evaluate the performance of Windows would be right if it were a real “mistake” (assuming the comment is correct in that an AI is being used in that way). But it might not be. It could be an excuse. If the plan is to move everything to the “Cloud” and convert everything to paid subscription services, then for MS it could be a real drag on their transition to that new business model to have to keep on supporting small-time users the old way, including those that employ their Windows PCs as workstations to get their jobs done and make a living. They might be the ones being thrown under the bus.

              That “mistake” could be a way to make those users go away, or, if they prefer to stay, to try hard to convince them, by comparing what they are getting now with what they might be getting soon, of how much better off they could be by subscribing to those new Cloud services as soon as they go live.

              • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by  OscarCP.
              1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #198388 Reply

              anonymous

              It could be an excuse. If the plan is to move everything to the “Cloud” and convert everything to paid subscription services, …

              I suspect that the “Master Plan” is to convert Windows to an Azure-based subscription service.

              -lehnerus2000

    • #198079 Reply

      geekdom
      AskWoody Lounger

      …thrown under the bus…

      I haven’t recovered yet from the last set of tire tracks and bruises.

      Group G{ot backup} Win7 · x64 · SP1 · i3-3220 · TestBeta
      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #198083 Reply

      AlexEiffel
      AskWoody MVP

      There is something I don’t understand in the computerworld article.

      Woody mentions PKCano saying something about the 365 days deferral for July vs 1803, when I had to upgrade from 1607 due to end of support, I didn’t go to the latest build, I didn’t have to update to 1709, I got 1703 offered.

      I thought, maybe inaccurately, that if you set the deferral to 365 days, you get 365 days from the day you set it. In theory, I shouldn’t be forced to update to 1803 in July while 1703 is still supported until Fall?

      I also suppose, maybe incorrectly, that if I had a deferral of 365 days and I get a feature upgrade, the timer is reset to 365 days even if I don’t play with it after the upgrade. But, that would be such a good opportunity for another one of those oops moments from Microsoft.

      • #198087 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        I believe the 365 day deferral refers to 365 days from the time a build is declared ready for business (CBB, SAC, “fully available,” or whatever they call it now). For 1703, that time will occur in July. That is what I was referring to. If you have been using the “Defer feature updates = 365” to hold off 1709 and now 1803, I believe your time is up. You are left to fight the tigers another way if you are running 1703.

        So now, you are facing MS ignoring any settings you might have and upgrading you whenever they feel in the mood. Watch your back!!!

        4 users thanked author for this post.
        • #198289 Reply

          woody
          Da Boss

          Microsoft has never made that clear, to the best of my knowledge, but the consensus is that the “deferral days” timer starts ticking as soon as the build hits CBB.

          We’ve never gone long enough to find out, really. The definitions keep changing.

          4 users thanked author for this post.
          • #198384 Reply

            AlexEiffel
            AskWoody MVP

            I just checked my 1703 and saw I had 181 days deferral set in GP, which is the odd number I put from 365 to that when I stopped receiving updates momentarily for a week or two right after I feature upgraded 1607 to 1703 and I tried a few things to see if there was something I could reset to start receiving the patches on that fresh less patched than 1607 version I just had installed.

            Right now, everything is normal for me after this 1-2 weeks initial hiccups. I receive all updates except feature updates, just like I clearly expressed to Microsoft using the not so clearly described, but blessed way of the group policy settings.

            So, as a test subject, I have CBB activated and deferral to 181 days. I didn’t get any new version offered yet. If I read the description, I should have received 1709 by now if it is pushed 181 days after the release in October. If the release means the CBB release because I said I want to be on this channel, then maybe I shouldn’t have got it yet.

            This means if Microsoft looses its definition of CBB, new feature updates would only have a 365 days deferral period, which is lower than the supported period. That doesn’t make much sense.

            Another point of interest is I was able to run 1607 until it went out of support. No, I didn’t install it the day it was originally released, probably more in fall of 2016, but when I had to upgrade it, it was more than 500 days after it was deemed CBB and I never had any forced upgrade, just some nagging close to the end of the support period.

            So to me, the deferral behavior is much more to my liking than what we could maybe interpret by having it based on the release dates of CB or CBB versions or their new names. My guess is maybe it is a timer that is reset. But then again, i didn’t get offered 1709 in April, but 1703, while I was on 1607, so there is something else at work too.

            Anyway, I pushed back the setting to 365 days just in case. I thought I would review all that a bit later when I installed 1703, but I still haven’t took the time to do this chore of revisiting everything.

    • #198084 Reply

      fp
      AskWoody Lounger

      I hate to tell you so, but I told you so.

      While all of you were dedicating yourself to constantly update, upgrade and fix messups I stayed with public release version 1511, WU disabled and doing weekly backups. No problems, undisrupted work, no new c..p i have no use for.

      I consider keeping up with Windows masochism.

       

       

      • #198092 Reply

        The Surfing Pensioner
        AskWoody Lounger

        So Group W has spread to accommodate W10? Curioser and curioser!

        • #198159 Reply

          fp
          AskWoody Lounger

          Not exactly.

          Windows 7 was all I needed, but I considered it a bit risky given what MS was doing. 1511 was Win10, yet close enough to Win7, and I managed to clean it up of all the Cortana, Edge, apps, telemetry and avoid all the useless stuff that MS keeps piling on it.

          IMO it’s the optimal thing to do. I have the ISO and the steps to redo the installation and customization and bring it back to what it is now in case I need to and I do weekly backups. No patches, no upgrades, no hassles. I have all apps I need — all UWP and apps are useless.

           

           

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #198178 Reply

            The Surfing Pensioner
            AskWoody Lounger

            If you’re not patching, that’s Group W – surely? But that is by no means intended as a criticism of a manoeuvre that has constructively achieved your objectives.

            1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #198226 Reply

              fp
              AskWoody Lounger

              I did not think it was criticism. But criticize all you want.

              1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #198371 Reply

              Noel Carboni
              AskWoody MVP

              I was honestly trying to think of what has been done that makes Win 10 a better “workhorse” than any or all of its predecessors.

              The ONLY single thing I could think of – and I even considered the incredibly intangible value of “keeping current” – was this:

              Per-monitor scaling, where you plug in multiple different monitors with disparate pixel densities, is actually a bit better now than in any prior version of Windows.

              I have not run across anything else. It’s not faster, it’s not more integrated, it’s not more efficient at much of anything, even if you DO embrace Apps it’s pretty much still a wasteland…

              Pardon me but this modern “fluent design” – where your App’s UI elements just slide all over the place depending on how big you make their container (“web page”, anyone?) isn’t even done very well. Take the calculator App for example… Want it big? Some parts don’t size up. Want it very small? Can’t make it as small as the old Calculator Plus application. Want it integrated with other desktop applications? The title bar is a different color and some things that are buttons aren’t actually marked as buttons. You can’t even put a full unsigned 64 bit number into it in Programmer mode…

              Wait, aren’t the included Apps supposed to be flagships?

              So a philosophy of staying on a chosen, fixed version of Win 10 is as good as any, though IMO it’s arguably still better to stay on Win 8.1.

              -Noel

              2 users thanked author for this post.
            • #198416 Reply

              Noel Carboni
              AskWoody MVP

              By the way the 1803 in-place upgrade DID resolve a nasty problem 1709 had developed. I could not pass an SFC check.

              I absolutely don’t and won’t consider it a valuable “feature” to have to replace an OS because in a mere 6 month lifespan the previous one had corrupted itself beyond repair.

              This is a subtle point, but I predicted it would happen… Since Microsoft has DEFINED that the OS will be replaced regularly, they have no incentive to see to it that it remains stable and viable. Contrary to their philosophy, there are actually serious uses for good, high quality computers that last for years without changing much.

              -Noel

              5 users thanked author for this post.
      • #198098 Reply

        RamRod
        AskWoody Lounger

        I too remain on 1511. No problems – so far – beyond MS’s efforts to upgrade my machine. WU disabled. Manually update Windows Defender. Backup. I also use Spy-Bot Antibeacon. I still think it is an opportune time for someone to start up a company and produce a clone of Windows for those who want to compute – not socialize. I use my phone to socialize.

        • #198182 Reply

          anonymous

          While discussing the WaaS situation with a friend last night, we actually came to the conclusion that a new OS is probably what will have to happen on the entertainment and gaming end of things.  The computer gaming world thrives on custom hardware and configurations that are already not playing nice with Win10, as demonstrated by the Alienware dual graphics incompatibilities.  The kinds of custom-built PCs that people tweak and tune to maximize performance are just minefields for upgrade failures.

          Somewhere along the way, I think the entertainment industry is going to have to give up on making things so dependent on legacy Windows features like Direct X, and come up with an alternative.  I’m hoping this happens sooner rather than later, because my aging CAD/3D-Printing/Animation PC is getting to that point where I don’t know how long the hardware will hold out.

    • #198117 Reply

      OscarCP
      AskWoody Lounger

      Hmm… I hope that big green button that says “Continue” isn’t really live.

      It reminds me of the “Eat Me” and “Drink Me” bottles in Alice. Or of the other bottle she drank from and made her grow until her head went through the roof from inside the White Rabbit’s house.

      But, of course, something like that couldn’t possibly happen when one pushes that button, could it?

      Aah! It turned out to be just one of those “polite commercials”, nothing to do with the Win 10 “upgrade”, for some compressing application… Well, not entirely a bad candidate for an “Alice” metaphor.

       

    • #198138 Reply

      anonymous

      Just one question that I never got a clear answer on. Can you skip a version (feature update/upgrade or whatever the name is nowadays)? In other words: right now I use 1709. Can I safely skip 1803 and install the september-version of this year a while after Microsoft declares it ready for business? Or do I have to install first 1803 and the september-update? Microsoft created such a huge chaos that I lost track of it all. And I am afraid that is exactly what they want: make the whole update process as fuzzy as possible, so that people give up bothering and just do what Microsoft wants them to do. Typical behavior of a monopolist.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #198144 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        Yes, you may absolutely skip a version  – IF you can prevent Microsoft from ignoring your settings and forcing the upgrade. That has been the big problem in the past. The settings should prevent upgrade until you are ready, but it has not always been the case. What you have to watch for is the version’s EOL, which has been 18 months for consumers, and an extended 6 months to 24 for Enterprise/Education.

        • #198160 Reply

          RamRod
          AskWoody Lounger

          Does hitting eol prevent you from updating or simply put you at more risk in the absence of security updates?

          • #198164 Reply

            PKCano
            AskWoody MVP

            Once a version reaches EOL, MS provides no more updates. You’re on your own.

            • #198185 Reply

              fp
              AskWoody Lounger

              No more updates? Nirvana.

              1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #198417 Reply

            anonymous

            Thanks for the clarification, will try to skip double yearly upgrades. They just cost me way too much time and troubles. I really start to have the feeling it’s total internal chaos at Microsoft. No normal human being would terrorize it’s clients wih serial produced buggy updates and upgrades in the frequency that’s now the standard for Windows. Windows in its present form should be retired and rewritten from scratch. It’s a leaking mess, a sinking Titanic floated by putting corks in thousands of new holes that appear every minute again. It’s an extremely tiring and frustrating OS to use nowadays, a mastodont of the past :-/ it’s for sure NOT a service.

      • #198176 Reply

        BobbyB
        AskWoody Lounger

        @anonymous Greg Keizer has an interesting take on skipping a Win10 version Here for Home use setting, just got a little tired here of battling a new Version every 6 months, hence going to skip 1803 this time round. In any case I have maintained for a while that’s never anything really “Earth Shattering” in each new release better to save it for a year of preferably two years, to actually make it worth percivering with the problems and teething troubles that seem to occur with every mew version.

      • #198267 Reply

        anonymous

        If the development of 1803 is anything like 1709, by September, 1803 will probably be a very good candidate and 1809 will be a train wreck, so you might want to monitor the progress rather than skip altogether.

      • #198352 Reply

        anonymous

        Susan Bradley’s new article on KB 4056254 suggests this discussion about End of Life being either a safe haven or a path to obsolescence has changed.
        https://www.askwoody.com/2018/patch-lady-windows-10-update-facilitation-service/
        Depending on whether you were hiding on purpose or got left behind you may feel differently about this. Either way, Microsoft knows best.

    • #198177 Reply

      lurks about
      AskWoody Lounger

      Ed Bott questioned MS’ transparency as he and others have heard reports that 1803 is still a must avoid if at all possible. He even used the term ‘cherry-picked’ to describe his impression of MS’ blather.

      3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #198183 Reply

      fp
      AskWoody Lounger
    • #198187 Reply

      anonymous

      More links for more reading,  some pro and some con.   Even some asking  ‘what are they smoking’ ?   woes and lamentation anyone ?  or maybe  ‘ are you serious? ‘  =

      https://win10.guru/1803-is-not-half-bad-despite-woes-and-lamentation/

      https://borncity.com/win/2018/06/15/windows-10-v1803-is-semi-annual-ready-seriously/

    • #198207 Reply

      EP
      AskWoody Lounger

      @woody:

      check out this article from Paul Thurrott from his web site.

      read it completely

      • #198290 Reply

        woody
        Da Boss

        Thanks for the tip. I hadn’t seen the article, but Paul’s absolutely right. As is Ed.

        I wouldn’t single out 1803 as a, uh, worse disaster. ALL of the Win10 versions have been disasters initially. It takes a while for an OS to stabilize. Remember “wait for Service Pack 1”?

        What’s galling is Microsoft’s claim that its “AI” makes 1803 superior, when it isn’t. And the decision to deem 1803 “ready for business” just shows how out-of-touch the ‘Softies have become.

        PKCano got it right. MS is making up for lost time.

        3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #198321 Reply

          anonymous

          Woody: “I wouldn’t single out 1803 as a, uh, worse disaster. ALL of the Win10 versions have been disasters initially”

          Not just initially. The fundamental problem with Win10 is that it offers NOTHING of value over Win7, only problems and a learning curve. They screwed up by merging mobile and PC in Win8, then drew the exact opposite conclusion that they should have from it in doing Win10.

          2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #198340 Reply

          OscarCP
          AskWoody Lounger

          Woody: “It takes a while for an OS to stabilize.” In the case of Win 10, that really needs a question mark at the end. Because it is hard to see how, being on a 6-month “upgrade” cadence, can any OS ever be considered “stabilized.”

          Otherwise, I fully agree that ALL Windows versions I have had the luck to work with, from Windows 3 through Windows 7 (minus ME and Vista, that I skipped), became progressively somewhat less of a pain to use than they were at first. Or else I got better, as time went by, at dealing with each one of them in turn…

          2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #198351 Reply

            fp
            AskWoody Lounger

            Which is precisely why the whole concept of 6 month updates is idiotic.

            4 users thanked author for this post.
            • #198422 Reply

              johnf
              AskWoody Lounger

              There’s nothing inherently wrong with 6 month upgrades, it’s the WAY Microsoft does this!

              Ubuntu uses short term feature releases for feature upgrades (used to be six months), and for the LTS (Long Term releases), 5 years. All versions are supported until the End of Life date, and you aren’t forced to upgrade, though it is suggested to upgrade once your version reaches EOL.

              As a practical matter, there’s no reason why Microsoft can’t follow this procedure…upgrades can be released every six months (for those users who are fine with beta testing, and for bleeding edge stuff), with security features backported to the earlier versions (for example, security features could be backported to 1709 or earlier versions for up to two years). And there’s no reason that the Win10 LTSB  (long term support version) couldn’t be offered to home and other users without the restrictions it has now.

              This is just simple economics…Microsoft does not want to support older versions, and wants home users (and eventually Pro users) to be their “Beta” support, for free. Simple as that…if Cannonical can do this, Microsoft can. They simply don’t want to.

              • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by  johnf.
              2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #198297 Reply

      Chris B
      AskWoody Lounger

      I see that Which in the UK has started a campaign for Microsoft to up its game on reliability of Win10 updates, and they say that MS is working with them. Given the bully pulpit that Which has, perhaps they may get some progress – here’s hoping!

      (Still on Win 7 and glad I am!)

      Chris

      Chris

    • #198327 Reply

      anonymous

      Win10 1803 (Apr. 30, 2018 to June 14, 2018) = 45 days

      Wait… didn’t 1803 get delayed and come out May 31st (or shortly after that)?

      Shouldn’t it be?:
      Win10 1803 (May 31, 2018 to June 14, 2018) = ~15 days

      “Semi-Annual Channel (Targeted)” aka “Current Branch”: 1803 — as of May 31st?
      “Semi-Annual Channel” aka “Current Branch for Business”: 1803 — as of June 14th?

      Edit to remove HTML

      • #198332 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        I believe that 1803 was released to “seekers” on April 30. It was officially released to Windows Update on May 8, Patch Tues. So Semi-Annual Channel 45 days later on June 14th (from “seeker’s” release, even less from official release to WU.

        3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #198429 Reply

          anonymous

          Isn’t it supposed to be _4_ months between general release and Semi-Annual Channel?

          Also, “Edit to remove HTML”, the only HTML I had in there (that’s gone now) was an underlined word. I thought the idea was “don’t paste massive gobs of useless HTML”, not “you can only use bold”.

          • #198435 Reply

            PKCano
            AskWoody MVP

            Isn’t it supposed to be

            You should know by now there is no “supposed to be” with Microsoft.
            They declare it CBB, or SAC, or “fully available” whenever they so desire. The “Targeted” designation is also supposed going away, which likely means it will eventually come down the chute for everyone not Ent/Edu the first day.

            “Edit to remove HTML”

            Any time you copy/paste into the “Visual” tab in the entry box, it carries formatting with it (unless from a text editor like notepad) which shows up as HTML and has to be edited out. If you copy/paste into the “Text” tab, it strips formatting. You can then highlight the text and use the buttons at the top to format. But little else bbcode.

            • #198443 Reply

              anonymous

              I don’t expect microsoft to do what they promise, I was just pointing out that they aren’t, yet again.

              About the HTML, I used… Wait, its gone… I used something from the edit toolbar to make an underline, it was very little code. Now I don’t see it. In any case what I posted wasn’t copied and pasted from anywhere and was all done on the text tab, using the forum’s edit interface.

              (also sorry if this post puts me over my post quota for today, I hope that it being a reply makes it OK)

          • #198437 Reply

            Elly
            AskWoody MVP

            Also, “Edit to remove HTML”, the only HTML I had in there (that’s gone now) was an underlined word. I thought the idea was “don’t paste massive gobs of useless HTML”, not “you can only use bold”.

            I was going to underline one word, and copy/paste it from Word as an example, but when I did so, it generated 100+ lines of HTML. One word… That is why the moderators edit it out. No one would read or appreciate your post…

            One <u>underlined text</u> using bbcode.

            The bbcode to underline is <u> before and after the text you would like to underline.

            I know it isn’t offered in the options, to just click… but it is fairly easy to remember and do, if you really want to individualize your responses beyond bold and italize.

            Win 7 Home, 64 bit, Group B

            • #198438 Reply

              Elly
              AskWoody MVP

              <u>underlined words<\u>

              Sorry, I used the text box, and it stripped out the code in my example. Hopefully this will render properly (no expert here), using the visual reply box.

              Win 7 Home, 64 bit, Group B

              • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by  Elly.
            • #198441 Reply

              Elly
              AskWoody MVP

              nope, that bbcode isn’t working… guess we are stuck with bold and italicizing… 🙂

              Win 7 Home, 64 bit, Group B

            • #198442 Reply

              PKCano
              AskWoody MVP

              Ahem…., maybe the buttons at the top work. (Sinck)

              Edit: Looks like underline doesn’t work AT ALL!!

              • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by  PKCano.
              1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #198490 Reply

              Noel Carboni
              AskWoody MVP

              There has never been an underline capability.

              The ul button initiates an unnumbered list.

              -Noel

              1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #198373 Reply

      anonymous

      Lots of confusion even with professional followers of Micro$oft.  It appears their left hand does not communicate very well with their right hand.  Who is on first?  New terminology:

      https://redmondmag.com/articles/2018/06/14/windows-10-april-2018-fully-available.aspx

      Thanks to all AskWoody participants in helping to sort this / these M$ messes out.

    • #198431 Reply

      Noel Carboni
      AskWoody MVP

      Did anyone notice that their “AI” supposedly cherry picked systems to update so that the upgrade would just seem more smooth?

      Not that it IS more smooth, but perception is reality, right?

      And their Marketing didn’t miss a beat hyping it up as a feature.

      AI is no substitute for I.

      -Noel

      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #198432 Reply

      johnf
      AskWoody Lounger

      Article by Steve Ranger in Zdnet

      Over half of users in a consumer survey claim they have experienced problems after upgrading to Windows 10.

      Which? said that its research found that consumers “are still plagued with problems, ranging from minor quirks to complete PC failure that resulted in costly repairs”.

      In a survey of 1,100 Which? members, the most common complaints after updating to Windows 10 were software compatibility issues, such as programs not working properly, or at all (21 percent), followed by hardware problems, such as printers and speakers no longer working (16 percent).

      Members also struggled with issues such as email accounts no longer syncing and personal files being inadvertently deleted, said Which?

      “Some consumers suffered PC slowdown and, in some cases, members reported complete PC failure. Of those in the survey who experienced this, 46 percent said they had paid someone to fix it, at an average cost of £67 each,” noted the consumer group.

      So, maybe AskWoody isn’t the sole source of complaints about Windows 10?

      Here’s the press release from Which? the article is based on:

      https://press.which.co.uk/whichpressreleases/microsoft-must-help-consumers-affected-by-windows-10-pc-pain/

      • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by  johnf.
      • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by  johnf.
      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #198494 Reply

        Cybertooth
        AskWoody Lounger

        What is Which??

        🙂

        But seriously, this is intriguing. The first statistics I’ve seen to address how widespread are the problems users are having with Windows 10.

        That said, one should withhold an opinion on this particular survey until and unless “Which?” (whoever they are) publishes their survey methodology. For example, who are the survey respondents–are they representative of the public in general, or maybe of the general computing public, or what? How were they selected for the survey–were they self-selected, or chosen at random by the pollsters?

        I would love to see a known polling organization such as Gallup do a similar survey.

         

        • #198506 Reply

          anonymous

          Cybertooth

          “Which” are the premier consumer product testing and consumer advocacy group in the UK. Their position is such that they are one of the very few organisations that can file a “supercomplaint” with the Competition Commission under monopolies law in the UK. My memory is that they show their methodology on their website http://www.which.co.uk. This one will be done on a large survey of members.

          When an organisation get criticised my Which in the UK, it tends to sit up and get worried.

          Chris

          2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #198553 Reply

            Cybertooth
            AskWoody Lounger

            Thanks, Chris.

            I poked around a bit on their website last night, based on johnf’s links provided in the forum post just above mine, and I found this writeup. Unfortunately, that one doesn’t discuss how they conducted the survey, either.

            It would be good to have a solidly grounded survey that we can shoot back at Windows 10 apologists (we know there are some here at Woody’s 🙂 ), who tend to pooh-pooh the complaints reported here on the basis that it’s mere “anecdotal evidence, I’ve had no problems at all” or that “it’s just a hundred complainers out of 700 million users, so what.”

             

            • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by  Cybertooth.
    • #198519 Reply

      MrJimPhelps
      AskWoody MVP

      Microsoft says its new A.I. is so good, it’s ready to push Win10 version 1803 to your machine – and businesses should follow suit. Patching pros say, ‘Wuh?’ Hubris, thy name is Microsoft.

      With all of the telemetry information that Microsoft is collecting, it’s just possible that their A.I. is very good. Likely a big reason they are collecting all of that information is to train their A.I.

      Group "L" (Linux Mint)
      with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
    • #198671 Reply

      b
      AskWoody Lounger
    • #199235 Reply

      anonymous

      Well personally I’m still avoiding to upgrade to 1803 just for the ease of my mind, I have enough troubles already and don’t wanna to take the risk.  I will probably wait for a few months and see what happens.

    • #199422 Reply

      Chris B
      AskWoody Lounger

      Thanks, Chris. I poked around a bit on their website last night, based on johnf’s links provided in the forum post just above mine, and I found this writeup. Unfortunately, that one doesn’t discuss how they conducted the survey, either. It would be good to have a solidly grounded survey that we can shoot back at Windows 10 apologists (we know there are some here at Woody’s 🙂 ), who tend to pooh-pooh the complaints reported here on the basis that it’s mere “anecdotal evidence, I’ve had no problems at all” or that “it’s just a hundred complainers out of 700 million users, so what.”

      Cybertooth – why don’t you ask them? They have a reputation for producing well researched investigations and, as a consumer organisation, seem pleased to engage.

      Chris

      Chris

    Please follow the -Lounge Rules- no personal attacks, no swearing, and politics/religion are relegated to the Rants forum.

    Reply To: Win10 version 1803 declared “fully available,” throwing Update for Business under the bus

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