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  • Microsft to Claim 7GB of space (maybe more) on Windows 10 devices for updating

    Posted on January 11th, 2019 at 18:05 PKCano Comment on the AskWoody Lounge

    For those of you with a small storage space (32GB or 64GB) on your device, beware. Microsoft intends to make the storage space you can use even smaller. Beginning with Windows 10 version 1903 (currently Beta version known as 19H1), Microsoft will start reserving 7GB (maybe more) of a device’s storage for updating purposes. Windows doesn’t check for the necessary available free space ahead of time, so the space is to be reserved on the device’s hard drive.

    Back in March, 2018, Susan Bradley needed to upgrade a 32gig HP Envy 8 Note 5000 from Win10 v1703 to v1709. Her trials are recorded here. She finally had to delete a bunch of files, download the ISO to a media card on another computer, then mount the media card as a CD drive on the computer to be updated, in order to run the setup.

    Economy devices with 32GB storage, even ones with 64GB, have difficulty (or fail) installing the Cumulative Updates. Feature Upgrades every six months can cause more havoc. In an attempt to avoid this. Microsoft is building into Win10 a Reserved space to store temporary files to insure Windows installs more easily.

    @dph853 has this to say about Microsoft’s use of his device’s storage.

    https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-windows-10-to-grab-7gb-of-your-storage-so-big-updates-dont-fail/

    I am relieved to read that MS does not intend to grab yet another partition for their proposed servicing “use” but at the same time, I do not particularly appreciate being locked out of areas of my HD. I generally know what I can mess with and what I should leave alone. There is no reason for this “temporary file space” to not be accessible and at least read only so as to confirm that what is being stored here are in fact temporary files rather than a long term repository for telemetry and data MS wishes to have access to but does not wish to send to themselves and store on their own servers. Who knows what the future holds for this scalable reserved space. If its purpose creeps over time, will the user be told of these new uses? I do believe in inspect and verify when it comes to the claims of Microsoft these days.

    Whatever happened to, “You do not have enough disk space to proceed. Please free up 7 GB and try again”?

     

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    Home Forums Microsft to Claim 7GB of space (maybe more) on Windows 10 devices for updating

    This topic contains 33 replies, has 14 voices, and was last updated by

     b 2 months, 1 week ago.

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    • #309102 Reply

      PKCano
      Da Boss

      For those of you with a small storage space (32GB or 64GB) on your device, beware. Microsoft intends to make the storage space you can use even smalle
      [See the full post at: Microsft to Claim 7GB of space (maybe more) on Windows 10 devices for updating]

      3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #309115 Reply

      anonymous

      Well, sure, that’s OK.  Since Microsoft thinks it is perfectly fine to charge their customers a monthly fee to allow storage of user data on Microsoft servers, I think it only fair for all Win 10 users affected by this to charge Microsoft a monthly fee for storage of their “data” on our equipment.

      200 million Windows 10 sufferers, um I mean “users”, at say…, $3/month.  Seems fair.

      And then when Microsoft doesn’t pay up, we all turn the debt over to collections.  200 million ongoing claims!  That should put some pep into things!

      Oh well, maybe in a perfect world….

      • #309141 Reply

        warrenrumak
        AskWoody Plus

        Well, sure, that’s OK. Since Microsoft thinks it is perfectly fine to charge their customers a monthly fee to allow storage of user data on Microsoft servers, I think it only fair for all Win 10 users affected by this to charge Microsoft a monthly fee for storage of their “data” on our equipment.

        It isn’t “their data”.  It’s the same temp files that Windows and user applications have been creating for the last 25 years.  You know…. C:\Windows\Temp and all that?

        Effectively, the behaviour of Reserved Storage isn’t really much different than creating a separate partition, like many power users did for years.   Some of those power users even redirected the Windows temp folders, paging file, etc. to a separate hard drive, in order to reduce the load on their primary OS drive.

         

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        b
    • #309137 Reply

      warrenrumak
      AskWoody Plus

      You can’t accurately check for free disk space ahead of time, because the Feature Update download and subsequent install isn’t instantaneous.  Remember, as of 1803, the disk-consuming parts of the Feature Update process (download, file unpack) now happens before the first reboot…. the user could quite easily install a 70GB game from Steam, eating up most of the free remaining disk space, while the Feature Update is being installed.

       

      The good news is that none of this will affect existing users — it’s only for new Windows installations, not upgrades from previous versions.  It can also be turned off, so the drama majors among you can settle down with the “Microsoft is stealing from me!” stuff.

      Maybe some other good news here is that Microsoft will refuse to certify devices for Windows 10 if they have less than 64GB of storage.

       

      BTW….. macOS has exactly the same problem with upgrades.  Look around a bit on the Internet and you’ll see people talking about how they started the upgrade, then rebooted, then ran out of disk space while the installer was running.

      • This reply was modified 2 months, 1 week ago by
         warrenrumak.
      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #309179 Reply

        anonymous

        Oh good some of the drama majors that chose the now “useless” still available for sale 32gb eMMC drive based computers will get to enjoy upgrading like Mrs. Bradley did last year. Maybe they have somebody like you to help them out when they have a dramatic moment.

        Good thing flash memory has been projected to decline in price by ten percent, guess you should tell ’em get the largest supported memory card and hope for the best! And if that does not work maybe very large an external drive will be helpful, worst case maybe is they’ll have to buy another computer.

      • #309320 Reply

        b
        AskWoody Plus

        It can also be turned off,

        How? (I don’t think it can be, from what I’ve seen so far.)

        Maybe some other good news here is that Microsoft will refuse to certify devices for Windows 10 if they have less than 64GB of storage.

        Is that announced or documented somewhere?

        Cannon fodder Chump Daft glutton Idiot Sucker More intrepid Crazy/ignorant Toxic drinker "Saluted blockhead" (Group ASAP)

    • #309140 Reply

      BobbyB
      AskWoody Lounger

      Martain Brinkman over at Ghacks has a take on it: https://www.ghacks.net/2019/01/08/windows-10-reserved-storage-explained/ seems they are already devising Reg Keys to mitigate this unusual nuance of the new Win10 release 1903+4,5,6?
      Seem to recall here that when 1507 got the 1511 update before they were officially new versions as they are touted now, M$ snaffled approx. 700MB in its own partition for the upgrade on one machine I was on then. Of course it doesnt show up if you use the bundled partition utility that Windows comes with but 3rd party utils. like Aomei etc will show it up.
      As has been said many times you have to feel sympathy for those with smaller HDD’s/SSD’s as its probably going to make a bad situation worse.

    • #309223 Reply

      Klaas Vaak
      AskWoody Lounger

      Micro$oft is handing users more and more reasons to switch to Linux; in fact M$ is almost starting to beg users to do so. I certainly am switching because I have seen and experienced enough to know that Win 8.1 was the last, relatively civilised version. Thankfully there is Linux.

      1x Linux Mint 19.1 | 1x Linux antiX

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #309257 Reply

      Fred
      AskWoody Lounger

      who owns my pc?

    • #309277 Reply

      David F
      AskWoody Plus

      who owns my pc?

      Not you I’m afraid 🙂

      • This reply was modified 2 months, 1 week ago by
         David F.
    • #309287 Reply

      dph853
      AskWoody Lounger

      User choice and the conveyance of information is what I like to see. We get dialogue boxes for all kinds of notices. I don’t see why Windows can’t communicate with users to declare their available free disk space insufficient to guarantee reliable operation going forward and offer to use the built in software to free up some more space. Within the OS itself when under storage constraint, \winsxs\ could be reduced. Mine is currently 6.5 gb with over 66,000 files in 18,000 folders. Talk about a literal cluster***!

      Officially change and label the hardware storage requirements for Windows 10 and beyond to a number that reflects the real need of the OS.

      It isn’t so much that I mind donating the storage space to the cause, it’s just that in my case, this extra reserved space is not needed, will never be needed and I will be prevented from using storage resources that are not needed by the OS. If you go into settings and open the storage page, the OS should see that I have 500 gb available and offer me the opportunity to easily disable this unneeded and unwanted reserved storage function. This leads me to question, what else will this user inaccessible allocation of hd space will be used for. I can only surmise, something that Microsoft wants to do without allowing pesky users to interfere with the master plan by snooping around in there. Great, just what I need, potentially another collection of 66,000 useless temp files in 17,000 directories to crunch away on my SSD.

      • This reply was modified 2 months, 1 week ago by
         dph853.
      • This reply was modified 2 months, 1 week ago by
         PKCano.
      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #309298 Reply

      bbearren
      AskWoody MVP

      The anonymous reply #309295 was me.  I thought I was logged in, but I wasn’t.  I must have had a moment in Woody’s Willys or something.

      Create a fresh drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!
      "The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Captain Jack Sparrow
      "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns

      "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      b
    • #309295 Reply

      anonymous

      It seems that no one ever reads the EULA, but lots of folks complain when the EULA kicks in and Microsoft does what they have said all along that they have retained the right to do.

      I own my PC’s and laptops, but only the hardware.  I don’t own the Windows OS on each PC, I only have a license to use it, and that’s the situation for everyone that uses Windows in whatever version/flavor.  The Windows software belongs to Microsoft; always has, always will.

      If one wishes to run Linux, the hardware doesn’t belong to Microsoft.  Simply wipe the hard drive and install Linux.  Problem solved.  I’ve tried Linux a couple of times (had to use it once as part of a project) but I don’t care for it, and I’ve come back to Windows.

      The bottom line will always be that Microsoft owns the software, consumers are licensed to use it.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      b
      • #309406 Reply

        anonymous

        I own my PC’s and laptops, but only the hardware.

        At least you get warnings of what next thing or grand design is to come from them, so they can use (or optionally abuse) your computer however they wish with their end-user license agreement.

    • #309319 Reply

      b
      AskWoody Plus

      dph853 wrote:
      I do not particularly appreciate being locked out of areas of my HD. … There is no reason for this “temporary file space” to not be accessible and at least read only so as to confirm that what is being stored here are in fact temporary files …

      Did anyone (else) say the user will be locked out of reserved storage? It has to be accessible to apps for temporary files, so why not visible to the user?

      Cannon fodder Chump Daft glutton Idiot Sucker More intrepid Crazy/ignorant Toxic drinker "Saluted blockhead" (Group ASAP)

    • #309321 Reply

      joep517
      AskWoody MVP

      WinSXS has long been the subject of articles about its size. I think back in the Vista days Microsoft changed its usage to include servicing Windows. Here is the official Microsoft documentation – Manage the component store.

      I am running the latest Insider Preview build (18312) with reserved space enabled. From what I can tell all the temporary files in the usual locations are still visible in File Explorer. I can delete them, move them, etc. As I interpret the description of reserved storage a user can’t see it as an entity outside of what is visible in Settings. It use and management is automatic.

      Since Microsoft changed how patches and upgrades are performed in Windows 10, Windows can not determine ahead of time if storage will be available when it is needed. Much of the work is now done when the user is still on the system. With the size of most drives these days I personally would rather sacrifice 7GB if it will help upgrades go more smoothly. I’m sure that Microsoft has enough telemetry data to know that this change will make a significant difference.

       

      --Joe

    • #309335 Reply

      warrenrumak
      AskWoody Plus

      Oh good some of the drama majors that chose the now “useless” still available for sale 32gb eMMC drive based computers will get to enjoy upgrading like Mrs. Bradley did last year.

      Just because someone attempts to sell a really poor product, doesn’t mean we should buy it!

      It’s like how everyone (hopefully!) knows that you should never, ever, ever buy a new cheap car like a Chevy Spark.  Nobody in 2019 should be paying 50% depreciation on a vehicle that takes 12 seconds to get to 60 mph.  You’re better off on the second-hand market.

      Same for laptops.  There are a ton of massively more capable refurbs out there for the same price as a new device with a low-spec eMMC drive.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #309361 Reply

        anonymous

        Most people buying these things are not as savvy as you are. They figure one computer is almost or as good as another and also lured by the price, only get in this free space and fiscal trap. Some others bought these not expecting Windows 10 to turn into a digital whale, or that Microsoft policies would ruin the device.

        Edited for content.

        • #309394 Reply

          Elly
          AskWoody MVP

          Most of my family and friends learned this the hard way when their computers hit one problem after another after being ‘upgraded’ to W10. For them, a computer purchase was a big thing to invest in, and not being computer savy, they had purchased low cost computers. For them, a computer is a computer… and only one is still using W10. The rest returned to their previous operating systems, and have been happier for it.

          I believe that Microsoft ‘should’ have better standards for ‘compatible’ hardware, but they ‘should’ be doing a lot of things that they have decided not to, if they were actually upholding trustworthy business practices rather than seeing what they can get away with.

          The operating system has always used a certain amount of resources. I’m not sure that having a particular amount reserved actually makes a difference. As a non-techy supporting even less techy friends and family and nearly all with budget constraints, several questions come to mind…

          (1) Will this alter what I am able to do on one of these small storage space computers? (since these are invariably what those around me buy?)

          (2) Will this improve the updating process, moving so work-arounds like the one Susan shared are unnecessary, or is it another change that basically helps Microsoft help themselves?

          Since Microsoft has shown ample evidence that any computer running W10 Home is controlled by them, having another example of changes being made that reduce or eliminate control/choice of the end user is par for the course. Disappointing to those of us that hoped that they would change their direction, but not entirely unexpected.

          Win 7 Home, 64 bit, Group B

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #309610 Reply

            anonymous

            You have described a primary usage case for Puppy Linux. Their cheap computers can function quite well, and likely for years, without the hassles.
            Dan

    • #309342 Reply

      warrenrumak
      AskWoody Plus

      It can also be turned off,

      How? (I don’t think it can be, from what I’ve seen so far.)

      There are Registry settings, including one called HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\ReserveManager\MinDiskSize — it’s set at “21474836480” on my machine, which works out to exactly 20 gigabytes.  Add a couple of zeroes to the end.

      Maybe some other good news here is that Microsoft will refuse to certify devices for Windows 10 if they have less than 64GB of storage.

      Is that announced or documented somewhere?

      I should have phrased this a bit differently — I am hopeful that this will be the case.  As it is, Windows 10 1809’s minimum disk requirement for device manufacturers is 16 GB for 32-bit, and 20 GB for 64-bit.  These numbers haven’t changed in several years.  All they’d have to do is make that additional 7 GB Reserved Storage required for manufacturers to be allowed to sell Windows 10, and I’m sure you’ll see those 32 GB systems disappear almost immediately.

       

      • This reply was modified 2 months, 1 week ago by
         warrenrumak.
    • #309345 Reply

      anonymous

      If updates were merely benign fixes to real problems that didn’t regularly introduce more problems, I’d be more inclined to sacrifice another 7GB of SSD space for Windows.*

      Doesn’t anyone think it terrible that Microsoft expects you to move or delete your own files so it can have the disk space to install a feature update you don’t need or particularly want? This 7GB reservation policy is simply snagging the disk space before the user can store unsightly *work* there. It merely reverses the order by taking the space up front. You’ll note that Microsoft certainly doesn’t offer to automatically delete their telemetry data or other data collection to free up a little space (yeah you can do it manually, I know). Why should we delete our stuff? It’s our drive with our stuff on it.

      Lost in all this updating nonsense is the fact that computers were once tools used to do “work.” A tool that is constantly being updated or broken by updates is not a useful tool.

      * I’m kidding! I reverted to 8.1 and will still have access to that 7GB.

    • #309374 Reply

      anonymous

      Not an issue. My newly installed SSD still has more than 800G free space.

      • #309451 Reply

        anonymous

        Re: #309374

        Very few people have a 1+TB SSD when compared to Windows’ install base. Most SSDs in use are probably in the 64-256GB range even today. There are loads of 32GB Windows tablets still out there.

        Installing Windows on a slow 16GB tablet was a terrible idea from the get-go, but Microsoft had to support 16GB devices when Flash Memory was expensive or lose the low end of the market to Android and other OSes that can actually fit comfortably on a 16GB device. Unfortunately for Microsoft, losing the low end of the market came to pass anyway–who would have guessed?

        Windows is *awful* on a drive that small. It’s probably bad with 32GB. Stealing another 7GB from the user should make patching on such a small drive work better. Microsoft clearly doesn’t care if the user would like to have access to that space that she paid for. Microsoft is too busy popping out shoddy patches and updates to care what we think–gotta keep to the release cadence!

        Tangent: I am increasingly of the view that the constant software updating inflicted on the user by practically every single program is not the panacea it was promised to be. I think it has made software of much lower quality prevalent. It has made companies lazy and complacent because it’s so easy to just shove it out on schedule and fix it later. Look at the AAA gaming industry: every major game releases in a terrible state, after months of 16+ hour days by the developers, and relies on a massive, multi-gigabyte day-1 patch in order to kind of function. Most times, even that isn’t enough to make a decent product out of it–Hi Fallout 76! Windows 10 is about as bad; remember what a load of trash Win10 1809 was at first? Remember the Intel microcode craziness?

        It’s not possible to go a week anymore without installing multiple updates for various bits of software. Most of the updates don’t actually break stuff, but it’s still such a constant annoyance and waste of time and bandwidth. So please, if any management types are reading this: Slow it down. Let your people get some sleep and see their families. Let them take their time and make sure your products actually work. Save “Crunch Time” for actual crises. Quit wasting the users’ time and energy. Release fewer better updates.

        Edited: Please observe the Lounge Rules

    • #309476 Reply

      banzaigtv
      AskWoody Lounger

      Some Surface Pro users will have their hands full with this one. They will now have to go out and buy more add-on storage for their apps, music, and videos. Yet another day in hell for M$. I wonder how the ReactOS project is coming along.

      I am no longer an active member of the forums.

      • #309575 Reply

        b
        AskWoody Plus

        Please explain why, as I have a Surface.

        Cannon fodder Chump Daft glutton Idiot Sucker More intrepid Crazy/ignorant Toxic drinker "Saluted blockhead" (Group ASAP)

        • #309576 Reply

          banzaigtv
          AskWoody Lounger

          How much storage do you have?

          I am no longer an active member of the forums.

          • #309577 Reply

            b
            AskWoody Plus

            128GB SSD, 128GB SDXC.

            Cannon fodder Chump Daft glutton Idiot Sucker More intrepid Crazy/ignorant Toxic drinker "Saluted blockhead" (Group ASAP)

            • #309585 Reply

              joep517
              AskWoody MVP

              Check you disk usage. More likely than not you will be fine. Remember that once activated you won’t notice your free space change much from temporary and other system file usage. From the blog post describing Reserved Storge: “Some disk space will be set aside to be used by updates, apps, temporary files, and system caches.”

              See Windows 10 and reserved storage for more details. Be sure to read the comments too.

               

              --Joe

              1 user thanked author for this post.
              b
    • #309741 Reply

      anonymous

      My philosophy these days is that if you’re getting a device with *that* little storage, you may as well buy a Chromebook.
      A Windows PC seems more like a powerful rig to me at least… that’s how I use my computers anyway. If I’m using a Windows computer, it’s going to be powerful with a lot of storage space and at least 2GHz of processing power. Anything less for travel is probably compact enough to be a Chromebook–cheap and reliable.

    • #309788 Reply

      anonymous

      As stated earlier, this will only affect new windows 10 installs.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      b
    • #309884 Reply

      Bill C.
      AskWoody Plus

      Oh good some of the drama majors that chose the now “useless” still available for sale 32gb eMMC drive based computers will get to enjoy upgrading like Mrs. Bradley did last year.

      Just because someone attempts to sell a really poor product, doesn’t mean we should buy it!

      It’s like how everyone (hopefully!) knows that you should never, ever, ever buy a new cheap car like a Chevy Spark. Nobody in 2019 should be paying 50% depreciation on a vehicle that takes 12 seconds to get to 60 mph. You’re better off on the second-hand market.

      Same for laptops. There are a ton of massively more capable refurbs out there for the same price as a new device with a low-spec eMMC drive.

      WHile I do agree, I am also a bit surprised MS would allow vendors to install an OS in hardware that is not compatible with their OS standard operating processes. I mean they even forced netbook makers (remember those?) to hold the line at the amount of RAM memory of the machine in order to qualify for the Win7 ultra basic version that was not available for purchase.

      Oops, my bad. I forgot, back in the GWX day MS would have allowed install on a potato in order to hit the magic mark that met their publicity of the adoption rate for the best and most secure Windows OS ever, one we would love, Win10.

    • #310037 Reply

      anonymous

      https://betanews.com/2019/01/11/disable-windows-10-reserved-storage/

      Press the Windows key and R simultaneously, type regedit and press Enter.
      In the Registry Editor, navigate to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\ Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\ReserveManager.
      Double click on the ShippedWithReserves key and set its value to 0.
      Exit the Registry Editor.

      • #310345 Reply

        b
        AskWoody Plus

        It remains to be seen if it is possible to set the value to 0 on devices that come with Reserved Storage enabled to disable the feature and free up space.
        Windows 10 reserved storage explained

        Cannon fodder Chump Daft glutton Idiot Sucker More intrepid Crazy/ignorant Toxic drinker "Saluted blockhead" (Group ASAP)

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