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  • listserve moving to a new location

    Posted on March 25th, 2019 at 14:21 Susan Bradley Comment on the AskWoody Lounge

    After trying to deal with all the dkim/dmarc listserve issues, we’re moving the listserve to a new location:  Google Groups.  The reason is that Google rewrites the header files so that emails from the listserve will play nice with today’s modern spam filters.  While the security person in me slightly freaks out that it’s rewriting headers, the person who still prefers email as a way to get key info accepts that it’s what we have to do.

    ===== Here’s what I wrote earlier:

    We are moving from Listserv to Google Groups as Listserv is no longer meeting the needs of our user base. We understand many companies have been enforcing stronger security measures that Listserv cannot support and this has caused some of our users to be unable to participate in For this reason we have made the decision to transition  (Don’t get me started on DKIM/DMARC and all that )

    As this transition occurs we will try to minimize disruption and we have also strived to keep the overall experience very simple as it has always been. The site will undergo some minor cosmetic changes and will provide full details on how to subscribe, unsubscribe, and how to access the Google Group. Access to the legacy archive will remain at this time, but new messages will be visible through the PatchManagment Google Group so you will be able to view discussions either through your email or through the Google Group directly.

    The current plan is to perform the transition on April 18th. A 2nd communication/invite will go out to all subscribers of a week before we are transitioning off of listserv. Finally, on April 18th, the day of transition, a notification will be sent to all users informing that the cutoff is happening today.


    If you would like to join the PatchManagement Google Group please visit the following URL and apply to join the group this time with the RIGHT URL:!forum/patchmanagement


    We apologize for any inconvenience and thank you so much for participating in

    Q and A:

    Do I have to have a gmail account or google linked account?  No.  Any email address will do.  The only thing a google account will give you is access to the web interface.

    Will it act like just plain email?  Yes.

    Did you consider other alternatives?   Yes, but still for many email is the best platform to get the content in your face.  With the addition of the web interface we’re hoping that this provides the best of both worlds for all.  I’ve personally used Slack, Teams, and am old enough to remember nntp and instant messenger.  It’s always a balance picking a right community platform.

    Again, all of us that benefit from all of you sharing thank you very very much as we make this transition.  Memberships have to be approved, so we beg your forgiveness and ask for patience during the transition.


    To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to
    To post to this group, send email to
    Visit this group at
    For more options, visit


    So … if you are a current member of the listserve AND you do NOT want a google profile, do the following:

    To sign up without a google profile.

    Go there.

    Go through the annoying captcha.

    Do not complete setting up the profile.

    You will be able to post/use email/just not use the web interface.  Note you may need to do inprivate browsing for it to NOT try to hook into your existing Google profile.

    If you DO want to use the web interface, you’ll need to either use a google account one one associated with a google account, or complete setting it up.


    What is  It’s the firehose of patching information.  As we see issues with patching, that’s where we all go “Hey, I’m seeing this are you seeing it too?”  It may not be for all, it can be chatty (that’s why the web interface will be good as that way you can monitor without having your inbox flooded).  But bottom line, there’s no better place to get the raw info about patching and patch management.  (edit:  okay so Askwoody is also great too 😉

    If that helped, take a second to support AskWoody on Patreon

    Home Forums listserve moving to a new location

    This topic contains 14 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by

     Norio 3 weeks, 1 day ago.

    • Author
    • #345174 Reply

      Susan Bradley
      AskWoody MVP

      After trying to deal with all the dkim/dmarc listserve issues, we’re moving the listserve to a new location:  Google Groups.  The
      [See the full post at: listserve moving to a new location]

      Susan Bradley Patch Lady

      4 users thanked author for this post.
    • #345187 Reply


      You’re going through all this because you’re not sure how DKIM/DMARC records work?

    • #345193 Reply


      Well that’s too bad.  It was useful and informative while it lasted.  But I, as well as many others that I know, with concerns about security and patch management of Windows systems lead a Google free life (or as close to one as we can get).

      Security and privacy are two sides of the same coin.


      • #345204 Reply

        Susan Bradley
        AskWoody MVP

        You can sign up without a google profile.  I have and did.   And yes I know how Dmarc and Dkim work.  The problem is that with the current listserve software it adds dkim headers to the sent emails.  Every other email client on the planet handles emails differently and won’t handle two or more dkim headers.   So when an email is sent from you there’s one dkim header, then when it goes through the listserve software there’s another.   Google groups is the only one that pulls off the existing headers and rewrites them so that the headers are clean and do not have multiple headers so that they will get through.  Trust me, I have a single listserve set up so that it will go through all dkim requirements and you cannot tell who the email is being sent by.

        Susan Bradley Patch Lady

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #345369 Reply

          AskWoody Lounger

          Google groups is the only one that pulls off the existing headers and rewrites them so that the headers are clean and do not have multiple headers so that they will get through. Trust me, I have a single listserve set up so that it will go through all dkim requirements and you cannot tell who the email is being sent by.

          Mailman also handles this quite well; I use it on the lists I run. You can configure it (easily) to rewrite the headers to avoid this particular issue, and you can do it easily through the management interface.

          • #345430 Reply

            Susan Bradley
            AskWoody MVP

            It has to totally rewrite/strip off the headers and only put in the mail server header.  Can you show me exactly where mailman does this?  Most can add dkim headers, no one else that I’m aware of strips off the header file of what dkim is there and replaces it with the one from the mailing server.  All of the vendors I contacted said “oh you don’t want to do that”.

            Susan Bradley Patch Lady

            • #345440 Reply

              AskWoody Lounger

              On the General Options page, setting the “from_is_list” parameter to “Mung From” resolves this issue (for my lists).

              The “first_strip_reply_to” parameter gets rid of the header entirely; I’ve not had to use that option.

              My apologies if I’ve misunderstood the original issue or if these settings won’t do the trick for you.

            • #345457 Reply

              Susan Bradley
              AskWoody MVP

              That changes the reply to header.  That I can do.  This is specifically changing the DKIM headers (a sub header) in the mailing.  All listserves can change it so that the email is from the list.  What many don’t do is totally strip and rewrite the dkim headers.  Most let the dkim header be added.  Then the other mail server reacts to multiple dkim headers and totally freaks out and blocks them as spam.

              Susan Bradley Patch Lady

            • #345459 Reply

              AskWoody Lounger

              For whatever reason, I’m not getting bounces due to multiple DKIM headers. I’ll review a few messages when I get home to see if these settings result in a single DKIM header or if my subscriber base just has more DKIM-aware (or DKIM-blind) mailservers.

    • #345213 Reply

      Da Boss

      An admittedly biased report… as Susan says, this is the firehouse, especially for anyone who’s in charge of an organization’s machines.

    • #345378 Reply

      AskWoody Plus

      I successfully signed up at “!forum/patchmanagement. I can see Susan’s post ” if you are reading this you got to the right spot.” I do not have a account. Do I need to sign up for one to read future posts? How does this work? thank you for your time! ASKWOODY is the greatest!!!

      • #345431 Reply

        Susan Bradley
        AskWoody MVP

        The postings will come into your inbox.

        Susan Bradley Patch Lady

    • #345603 Reply

      AskWoody Plus

      Note that you can subscribe by sending an email to

      No need to have a Google account.

      As for munging, one of our groups recently tried the option available in Mailman to wrap the message in an outer wrapper. It caused many problems with some only able to see postings as attachments and others like myself seeing loads of headers in the messages. We have not tried the first option yet, to munge the ‘from’ address but that probably works a bit better. The ‘wrap’ option most definitely does not.


      • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 1 day ago by
    • #345606 Reply


      This link below appears to be correct, it will pop-up with a box to enter the e-mail address you want to use to subscribe:



    • #345658 Reply

      AskWoody Plus

      I have a gmail account, but my Woody Plus account is based on a different email.
      Does it matter that I use a different email?
      Also, you indicated that using a google account gives one access to the “web interface.” What additional resources does that give us? For example, will I be able to search through past postings with the web interface? Seems to me that would be important if I was a new member of

    Please follow the -Lounge Rules- no personal attacks, no swearing, and politics/religion are relegated to the Rants forum.

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