Acer laptop black screen

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Acer laptop E1-731-4699 dual booting W7 (99% abandoned) and Mint Mate 19.2.  Today, screen will not light up- HD(I think) & fan on, usual lights on also.  All was fine yesterday.

History is that this happened once before some months back, I then assumed the screen itself had died, and installed a replacement; however, in the course of the service the original screen awoke and has been 100% ever since.  The vendor was generous enough to accept the return of the replacement and up until today, as stated, the original worked as expected.

Today I checked the connector on the back of the screen ($%#@& tiny screws!) and it is well seated and taped.  This machine came with the latest BIOS according to the Acer site.

Before I hand it over to a repair shop, credentials unknown, I’m asking here for some thoughts on how to proceed.  All comments appreciated!

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Gonna ask a dumb question.
Am I right in assuming you have already toggled the keyboard key combination that switches between internal and external monitors?

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Slowpoke47

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[Slowpoke47]

There are no dumb questions when I’m involved.  But I did try both  Fn+F5, which switches to a remote screen, and Fn+F6, which turns the display on/off.

We do have the Acer cookbook downloaded on another computer, so I could confirm the combos.  But this machine came with W7 OS and now, with the Mint dual boot, Mint takes over by default unless W7 is chosen.  I wonder whether the combos are the same for Mint and W7?

Edit- just now shut it down via the power button, and saw a split-second of “less black”  which might mean that this is not a hardware problem.

• This reply was modified 2 years, 10 months ago by Slowpoke47.

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Another dumb question : did you check screen brightness ?

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Slowpoke47

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Yes, no effect.

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Do you have an extra external monitor that you could attach, to see that it works? If it worked, you could change between W7 and Mint and see if it is an operating system issue, or hardware… especially given that bit of light you saw.

Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter

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doriel, Slowpoke47

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I believe I should be seeing the BIOS bootup sequence with the Acer logo.  This sequence runs before the choice of OS is offered.

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Slowpoke47 wrote:

History is that this happened once before some months back

Here is the original thread.
https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/laptop-will-not-boot-up/

cheers, Paul

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Slowpoke47

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Just reviewed that thread in which several people, you included, took the time to post detailed suggestions and info.  The black screen symptom is exactly the same now.  There doesn’t seem to be a point in going thru the rigamarole of trying the external monitor, especially when that ploy last time didn’t really identify the specific problem.  I’m going to bring it to a repair shop, outline the history, and see if I can pay for a diagnosis.  It may be time to replace it.

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? says:

good idea! the greek squad may be able to fix it quick…

my old lcd acer had a short in the lead at the base of the screen that blew a fuse on the mainboard near the plug to the screen. i used an ohm meter to find the open connection put a dab of solder on it and went back to work. also have had broken wires near the hinges in the harness that goes from the board to the monitor.

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Is it time for a new laptop? (Isn’t it always time…)

cheers, Paul

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Well, if it comes to that, it will bring a tear to my eye.  I am not an exemplary consumer due to a combination of cheapness and tradition.  For example, my preferred ride is 28 years old and has a clutch pedal.

Just now connected the desktop screen to the laptop with the same results as several months ago- screen lights up as expected, but without the tray, so no access to the menu.  But finagling from a right-click on the desktop got me online.

As mentioned, next move is to look for a diagnosis from the only computer shop in town.  No idea of their competence, but they’ve been around for many years, so that might be a plus.

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Might be worth a try to get a diagnosis from the local repair outlet.(report/diagnostics without repair and only upon customer go-ahead) then weigh it up.
I hate throwing old tech away and would rather TRY than give up on it IMO.
The satisfaction of accomplishment far outweighs simply ‘buying another replacement device’
Worst comes to worst, salvage parts you know do work from the device and look for a second-hand older device. There’s no point buying a ferarri when a toyota will get you there, especially with linux distro’s unless you are a top-end gamer of course.
fingers crossed for you!

No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT- AE

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Slowpoke47

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Microfix wrote:

Might be worth a try to get a diagnosis from the local repair outlet.(report/diagnostics without repair and only upon customer go-ahead) then weigh it up. I hate throwing old tech away and would rather TRY than give up on it IMO. The satisfaction of accomplishment far outweighs simply ‘buying another replacement device’

Couldn’t have said it better than that.  The throwaway society we live in these days, a product of marketing (natch!) is antithetical to my own tendencies, not just for tech equipment, but everything else as well.

Microfix wrote:

unless you are a top-end gamer

  We are not gamers, top end or otherwise.  My to-do list on any given day is overly optimistic time-wise as it is- just call me Slowpoke.

Dropped off the laptop at the sole local shop this morning.  On hearing my tale of woe, the shop owner urged me to buy a new one- told me “laptop lifespan is 3-5 years” and this one just had its 5th birthday.  But I’m paying $50 for a diagnosis which I expect to see early next week and I’ll go from there.

 

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Microfix

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Good show @Slowpoke47! I’m sure you’ll let us know the outcome.
As for newer laptops lasting 3-5 years, sheesh!
I have one that’s STILL going strong into it’s 12th year from new.
Probably slightly over engineered now, with an SSD(5W) instead of the shipped HDD(20W)having less stress on internal motherboard components..which helps.
They obviously don’t make them like they used to

No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT- AE

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Slowpoke47

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Post #2315287 “On hearing my tale of woe, the shop owner urged me to buy a new one- told me “laptop lifespan is 3-5 years” and this one just had its 5th birthday.”

I’ve lost count on how many times I’ve heard that where I volunteer. I have a laptop & a desktop each one from 2012 and they run Windows 10 Pro excellently now-a-days. In case you’d like to know, as a simple user I focus on monthly security and maintenance check-ups during the week prior to Patch Tuesday. The folks I help enjoy finding out what needs to be addressed, even those who are technically challenged.

It might make sense to buy a new laptop as time & “frustration” can take its toll on us in some situations,
If you do buy a new laptop, consider posting anything on your mind related to how you want to set-up the new laptop the way you wish to do so. For example, will you want your primary log-in account to be a Microsoft or local administrator account?

HP EliteBook 8540w laptop Windows 10 Pro (x64)

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Slowpoke47, Microfix

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You may notice by my signature that we run Linux Mint, having abandoned MS when they officially threw W7 under the bus.  In contrast to the steady stream of W10 update and other problems posted here, Mint just runs without incident, updates smoothly and easily when needed, and has no telemetry, as does W10.  As a bonus, Mint is all-around faster.

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I agree completely about Mint. My daily driver is 19.2. I buy refurbished laptops preferably running Win 7 or 8.1 and then install Mint. You can also sometimes find a refurbished laptop with no OS for pennies on the dollar.

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Have you run any hardware/display diagnostics app ?

Try RWEverything (Free)

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So, he is to peck away blindly at the keyboard, and read black text on a black background?

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Slowpoke47, Microfix

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ROTFL..as well as posting links to somewhat dubious sites.

No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT- AE

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Slowpoke47

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@slowpoke – For $200-$300 you can get a nice laptop from Dell Refurbished (to whom I have no affiliation) 50% off any one item through today.

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Slowpoke47

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Thanks for the alternative suggestion, but “refurbished” is sorta nebulous when considering something as complicated as a computer and I could eventually be back in the same boat.  For example, the cable that connects to the monitor flexes each time the lid is opened or closed, and I can easily picture a conductor breaking at the stress point.  In fact, that may be the issue with the Acer.  If it isn’t worth repairing, I’ll buy new.

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That’s why I buy from a reputable site. I’ve bought 2 and they are almost indistinguishable from brand new and have held up very well – no problems. Just my 2 cents worth.

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I concur with DrBonzo. Look at refurbished, off-lease “business class” laptops

I have bought a number of refurbished “business class” laptops from Microcenter. I have bought Lenovos and Dells. The business class vs. consumer grade, brings easier repair (for corporate IT folks doing HDD/SSD replacements, memory upgradeability, and wired networks and other output ports) as well as often including a DVD player for giving presentations or loading your software (or movies or CDs). Replacing a HDD or SSD is opening a hatch on the bottom and taking one out and sliding the new one in without removing keyboards, bezels, or other components. They usually also have a metal chassis with sturdy hinges and plug jacks, and easily replaceable batteries.

Since you use Linux Mint, the mainstream “business class” also have tried and proven components and just work well with Linux. I used to use Ubuntu, but have now moved to Mint 18 on one and 19.3 on another (and Mint 20 on a small netbook). With the Lenovo and its HDD caddy setup, removal is real easy and if I ever need to, I can pop the original Win7Pro HDD back in.

I always budget for a new SSD (real cheap now) and more memory. The refurbs typically come with 90 or 180 day replacement warrantees. I have yet to pay over $400 (for Intel i7 or i5 CPUs), and my oldest is going on 7 years. All looked brand new when I got them.

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Forgot to mention- when I was at the computer shop, I did get a faint whiff of condescension, meaning my laptop was not worth his talents.  But the prospect of a $50 “bribe” brought him around.

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In all fairness, if your machine is a pentium with 4gb of memory I don’t blame a shop advising you to look at a new machine. What do they charge, $80-$100/hr for service? Let’s say the LCD is bad. Is it worth spending $200 or more on that machine or adding a bit more to get something newer and more powerful?

I will generally evaluate a machine for free or low-cost until I have to crack it open. Then if I repair it I have to stand behind my repair. Oh, I changed the LCD and a month later memory module or HDD goes bad. Do you want a warranty job? Is it now worth the cost of the initial repair PLUS the new one?

Don’t get me wrong, I have 15-year old laptops still running and in service. I’ll fix them if they are mine or a relative’s if I have free or cheap parts. Anything more it is scrapped. I’m also happy to give a client free advice on doing the repairs themselves, but I won’t spend 4-hrs of my day on the phone for free. I have bills to pay too.

Never Say Never

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SkipH, Slowpoke47

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Thanks for your input- we don’t need tons of memory in this machine and there are no files stored on it.  It has just the suite of programs that are included with the Mint OS.  All this is because the only thing we use it for is Internet access, mainly as a portable television, via wifi.

Files and programs for computer operations are on a desktop.

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An update on this saga- the computer shop diagnosed the problem as a faulty display cable; however, it was a default diagnosis, meaning they could find nothing else wrong.  At the owner’s suggestion, his shop will replace the cable and if that’s not the answer, he’ll eat the cable, but I’ll pay for the labor (he says 2 hr.) minus the diagnostic fee.  That sounded fair to me, and what’s more, his former condescending attitude was gone.

I had previously reached the same default conclusion, and my plan was to test the individual conductors in that cable for continuity.  I was not able to locate a new cable, but the shop apparently has additional sources.  I gave them the go-ahead.

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DrBonzo

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The story continues- today I had a call from the repair shop to tell me that his source for the replacement cable had cancelled the order due to lack of availability.  Shop says he has another source, that order went out today.

Not having that machine is just a minor inconvenience, so we’ll wait.  While I had the shop owner on the phone, I asked why the cable replacement was a default, or “guess” diagnosis, although it had been my theory as well.  In my electronics repair experience, when I suspect a damaged conductor, I confirm it one way or the other with a continuity tester or an ohmmeter.  In this case, I didn’t do that myself for fear of inflicting collateral damage when opening the case.  Turns out, the shop didn’t do that either- looks like all they have done so far is to check the connector on the back of the display.

Further developments when available.  Meanwhile, Merry Christmas to all my AskWoody compatriots!

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Microfix

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Slowpoke47 wrote:

While I had the shop owner on the phone, I asked why the cable replacement was a default, or “guess” diagnosis, although it had been my theory as well. In my electronics repair experience, when I suspect a damaged conductor, I confirm it one way or the other with a continuity tester or an ohmmeter.

It would be quite difficult to do that with a flex cable. That’s why I suggested replacing it too when this first happened rather than trying to ohm it out, which ordinarily would have been my first thought as well.

It’s probably a 30-pin connector, and the connector on each end is different, so you’d have to map the connectors on each end to one another, and figure out a way to get a good connection on each end for the multimeter. Ideally, you’d have the opposite gendered connector of the same type on each end, but that’s already getting into the weeds, so to speak, and I don’t know that these are available. The connector on the LCD end is standard, but it may not be on the other (motherboard) end. And you’d have to test it up to 30 times (not all of the pins are necessarily connected), and even then, it would be with the cable in a different position than it was in when it was installed in the laptop.

The unit has worked, then not worked, then worked again after screen replacements (that also serve to “jostle” the flex cable), so it’s probably now still not completely dead, but instead may have the copper strands broken within the insulation in one or more of the wires, which could make a connection when the cable is in some positions, but not others. That could make it appear to work when being ohmed out on the bench, but not in the real installed position (with the source of the greatest stress on the cable, probably around where it bends most sharply to enter the hinge cover, intact).

As for the 3-5 year lifespan of laptops… well, sure, if you tell every owner who comes through the door with a broken 3+ year old laptop to replace it, that kind of establishes that age as the lifespan! But his is a repair shop for laptops, so it does seem a little odd that he’d be advising against repairing a laptop. Hopefully the part will be found.

I’ve thus far been lucky enough to always be able to get parts for my laptops, as they’ve worked out to be common units that have a ton of them out there, which means more chances for parts to find their way into the secondary market.

Acer does sell parts (through a distributor), though they may not have any for a 5 year old unit. If the repair guy calls Acer, they may be able to help. I did that when I lost the rubber foot on the bottom of my Swift… Acer directed me to the company that handles their parts sales, and they had the bottom cover available (the feet were not a separate item). I found it cheaper to get one on eBay for a third of the price (used, but in pristine condition), but at least Acer made an effort to make the parts available. Unlike some Cupertino-based companies named after fruit that do everything they can to thwart aftermarket repairs…

 

Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/16GB & GTX1660ti, KDE Neon
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, KDE Neon (and Win 11 for maintenance)

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Slowpoke47

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Many thanks for your detailed response.  My theoretical musings re testing the cable led me to the same conclusion that you have described, and I do realize that my theory here is difficult if not impossible to translate into action.  While my (parsimonious) nature recoils at throwing parts at a problem hoping for a win, in this case the failure is amply circumscribed and the cable has in all probability failed.

As an old geezer myself, I well remember the days before the massive shift to Chinese manufacture.  Both the initial quality and useful life of all sorts of manufactured goods have deteriorated substantially from then to now, and the prescribed remedy is to buy a new one.  Can’t begin to list the products I have bought from formerly uplevel manufacturers, now sourced from China, that have disappointed.  Sad but true.

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The solution for this problem has apparently reached a dead end.  The repair shop tells me it has tried three vendors who showed the display cable in inventory but each in turn cancelled the order- if a vendor in fact had this part, you would expect they would prefer to sell it rather than keep it on the shelf.

So, as it stands this is now an Acer paperweight, young at 5 years of age.  Would like some feedback from the tech-savvy members here- what would you do next?

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Did you ask the repair shop for the item/ part number?
That would certainly help, sourcing out a replacement (DIY searching/ purchasing online) and give it to the repair shop to fix it 😉

No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT- AE

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Slowpoke47

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When I left the computer with the shop, I offered to give them the part # (the gold standard for fixing anything), which I had previously determined.  The owner thanked me but preferred to look it up himself.  No offense taken, he likely wanted to be sure the # was correct.

I had previously searched the # myself, but had no luck except for used cables on ebay- in this case, a used cable is a major roll of the dice- any other machine that was scrapped for parts could not possibly have had a cushier life than ours- we babied it from day 1.

As of today, couldn’t find the cable new or used.

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Can you locate the correct part number and any general-purpose, generic part numbers? It’s a fairly tedious process reading across specs and determining Part No. XYZ-01234 is now Part No. ABC-43210-S.

On permanent hiatus {with backup and coffee}
offline▸ Win10Pro 2004.19041.572 x64 i3-3220 RAM8GB HDD Firefox83.0b3 WindowsDefender
offline▸ Acer TravelMate P215-52 RAM8GB Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1265 x64 i5-10210U SSD Firefox106.0 MicrosoftDefender
online▸ Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1992 x64 i5-9400 RAM16GB HDD Firefox116.0b3 MicrosoftDefender

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Slowpoke47

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This is an Acer Aspire E1-731-4699. Screen is LED

s/n NXMGAAA004442007167200

SNID 44200181472

Video cable p/n 50.RYNN5.004                                                                               alt p/n VA70C_LVDS_CABLE

These are the specs I searched, today and about 1 1/2 months ago.

 

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[geekdom]

Try here:
https://store.acer.com/en-us/catalogsearch/result/?q=display+cable

Try here:
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=display+cable+acer+50.RYNN5.004&ref=nb_sb_noss

On permanent hiatus {with backup and coffee}
offline▸ Win10Pro 2004.19041.572 x64 i3-3220 RAM8GB HDD Firefox83.0b3 WindowsDefender
offline▸ Acer TravelMate P215-52 RAM8GB Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1265 x64 i5-10210U SSD Firefox106.0 MicrosoftDefender
online▸ Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1992 x64 i5-9400 RAM16GB HDD Firefox116.0b3 MicrosoftDefender

• This reply was modified 2 years, 8 months ago by geekdom.
• This reply was modified 2 years, 8 months ago by geekdom.

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Slowpoke47

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Thanks for your assistance.  I did try both of those sources myself using the two part #s.  I cruised around the Acer site looking for help but Acer is seemingly not interested in out-of-warranty assistance.

I did find at least one vendor that showed a picture of the cable, but noted “out of stock”  and no comment on whether it would become available in the future.  From the pictures on your Acer link I can see that none of the items shown look like the one I need.

The Amazon search you linked shows a multitude of cables, but I didn’t see a visual match there either, and the search results were returned using the correct part #.

One question that comes to mind is, other than configuration, is there a difference between cables for LCD and LED applications?

Another question- while I have extensive repair experience on anything from cars and heavy equipment to non-computer electronics, and an assortment of tools including various test equipment and a pencil soldering iron, is it feasible to attempt this repair myself if I find a cable?  I have replaced the screen on this laptop (no big deal) but have never disassembled the case.  The shop owner wants nothing to do with it, referred to it as a “charity case” and wants it gone from his shop.

I may go back to the vendor(s) who show the cable as out of stock and call them.

 

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? says:

“charity,” has a biblical ring to it, no?

i used guides from youtube to get to the bottom of acer extensa 4420 to change cmos, sucessfully, take a look at these to see if you want to undertake the “open the case,” project…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfT1ntv-uiw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyjLfwdjzcU

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Slowpoke47

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? says:

maybe try E-Bay?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-LCD-LED-Video-Cable-for-Acer-Aspire-E1-521-E1-531-E1-571-V3-571/112145328411?hash=item1a1c61e91b:g:xy4AAOSwYIxX46tr

cable seems to fit several similar acer models…

or buy a “for parts,” laptop shares part number with:

Acer TravelMate P273-M, P273-MG.New Acer Aspire E1-731 E1-771 V3-731 V3-771 Laptop Lcd Led Cable 50.RYNN5.004

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Slowpoke47

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Used only offered on ebay.  Seems to me that, assuming this cable has failed, the most likely spot for an intermittent short would be at the lid hinge point, where the cable flexes whenever the lid opens or closes.  This would also be true for a used cable, and doesn’t bode well for longevity, especially with the previous life of the donor unknown.

These are some links that I found for new cables.  It does seem that LCD and LED are interchangeable.  I’ll likely try calling some of these vendors for more info.  Sprechen sie Deutsche, anyone?

Acer 50. RYNN5.004 Notebook Spare Part – Component Cable for Laptop, A at Amazon.com

Acer LVDS Cable, 50.RYNN5.004 – EET

Acer 50.RYNN5.004 notebook reserve-onderdeel Kabel | RedShell

New Gateway NE71B NV76R Lcd Led Cable 50.RYNN5.004

50.RYNN5.004 Acer Cable LVDS Cable | | Zandparts | Zandparts

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geekdom

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Screens for laptops are readily available, inexpensive and not difficult to replace if you have a lot of patience dealing with snaps and adhesives.

Can you boot into BIOS/Setup screen (hold F2 while turning on or whatever is appropriate)?  If so, the screen’s OK.

Mint users here notwithstanding, it has rather primitive graphics support, nuveau and bumblebee are ancient utilities, may or may not work  if selected.  Black screens are not uncommon, been there.  Possibly you have an incompatible combo of graphics drivers.  I don’t use Mint, only did for a few days but there are settings to enable and disable different graphics utilities.  Same can be done from the command line.

So, if you can get into Setup, it’s probably the OS.  Linux isn’t immune to weird update effects.  Mint developers decided last year they would pull away from Ubuntu’s “oppression,” a bizarre goal for a small team.  Try reinstalling Mint.

JMO but I’ve tried over a dozen distros, all on a 10 year old laptop (since Linux is supposed to run on “anything,” hah!) and finally settled on KDE neon (based on Ubuntu, as is Mint.)  You get low memory usage, excellent touchpad smoothness (poor on Mint) and the beautiful Plasma desktop, which is almost the same as Windows and Cinnamon.

Most Linux distros with a high user base are as easy to use and, mostly, to install as Mint so try some others.

Ubuntu’s probably the best supported, I used it for quite a while but the gnome desktop and lack of features without a huge number of extensions will probably drive you crazy.

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Update- of those sites (in English) that listed the cable, although out of stock, I couldn’t raise anyone via telephone.

Just sent an email to this site, they are in Sweden.  https://www.zandparts.com/en/gateway-50-rynn5-004

Edit- site came back instantly with an auto-generated response including a reference #.  A long shot, maybe, but WTH?

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Make sure any site you order from is legitimate before you plunk down plastic.

On permanent hiatus {with backup and coffee}
offline▸ Win10Pro 2004.19041.572 x64 i3-3220 RAM8GB HDD Firefox83.0b3 WindowsDefender
offline▸ Acer TravelMate P215-52 RAM8GB Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1265 x64 i5-10210U SSD Firefox106.0 MicrosoftDefender
online▸ Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1992 x64 i5-9400 RAM16GB HDD Firefox116.0b3 MicrosoftDefender

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Slowpoke47

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For sure, true for any online purchase.  I normally go through PayPal, in part because they can assist in resolving disputes.

In any case, buying the cable from this source, in Sweden, seems like a long shot.

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Cable just ordered from above mentioned Swedish site.  After an email thread with their customer service rep, I feel reassured that this site is legit and, in any case, if there is a problem, PayPal will intervene on my behalf.  The ordering process was no different than any other using PayPal.  Rep tells me delivery will take about three weeks.

While searching this part # I had quite a few hits from various countries in Europe, and while I am not really multilingual, it did seem that at least some of them could supply the part.  (Fortunately, the Swedish site offers the option of English translation.)  After exchanging emails with the rep, and seeing that other European sites sell this cable, could be that there is a central repository of some sort from which the vendors draw.

Looks like cost including overseas shipping is about $37, of which $27 is shipping cost- a calculated roll of the dice (since it is a default diagnosis) that could get this 5-year-old 17″ screen laptop back in use.  A new replacement would be around $500.

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Microfix, geekdom

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? says:

good news! they make good cars the Swedes. keep fighting the “plannned obsolescence.”

i buy “parts,” acer laptops from ebay. the individual part is usually more expensive than the whole machine. this acer model (originally Vista) has “weak,” hinges, and when they malfunction it breaks the lcd cable and the top shell along the way…

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Just heard from the seller in Sweden- their vendor has back-ordered this cable “to at least April.”  Not looking overly promising…

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geekdom

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This saga appears to have reached an impasse.  No vendors I can find, including the Swedish source that has my order, can determine when if ever this cable will become available.  I have searched this part number throughout cyberspace, no joy.  I have been unable to contact Acer directly to ask. It really frosts me to be unable to service this machine, which was built 10/15/2014, nowhere near “old” by my reckoning.

The best strategy going forward now seems to be to buy a new laptop and let the existing cable order ferment a while longer, in case it bears fruit.  Should that happen, we’d have a spare.  We have just our Dell desktop as of now- can’t cite the age offhand, but it originally came with Vista.  Over the years, the power supply, mouse, drives, and keyboard have been replaced, and the HDD’s now in the machine are fairly new, one with W7 (now unused) and the other with Mint.  If this desktop acts up, I’d be stuck with no Internet access for parts or to post here for advice.

The non-functional laptop was used just for Internet access and as a portable tv.  It has no files in it, and a replacement won’t need a massive memory.  It is an Acer E1-731-4699 with a 17.3″ display, large enough for tv use.  We have no intention of going back to Windows, and would look to buy a machine without an OS to avoid paying for a system we’ll never use.  We’re more than pleased with our current Mint Mate 19.2 and would prefer to have the same OS in both computers.  I still have the stick used to install Mint in both machines.  If we buy  a new laptop with Mint pre-installed, that OS will likely be a newer version, as I think our OS is no longer current.

There are a bunch of secondary questions that derive from this plan, but for this post I’d be interested in some general feedback.

 

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If it was me, I’d go to https://www.dellrefurbished.com/ and check out their deals. In the Clearance section they often have a lot of computers with no installed OS. The prices strike me as generally being pretty good, and if you’re patient you can sometimes score a real deal. I’ve purchased 2 laptops from them (both had Win 8.1 Pro on them) and have been very happy with them. I had to replace the battery on one of them about 2 years after I got it, but that could happen to any computer, and it was simple enough to find a new one and to replace it.

I’ve never really looked at the following, but it’s the official Dell Outlet site.
mCR5PscST_OfvEkvoqQEvZMtxoCzVsQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds&nclid=x-hyVeD-oJ3Ft47JLH4hL4DB-EoYmM8osnEIRyYe4c2jmvXQz2jQ47FzmiNSBdCB

If your current desktop came with Vista, chances are its from 2010 or before, and that’s getting pretty old. I have 3 laptops from 2009 that still work fine (they run Mint 19.2 Cinnamon), but you never know – I did replace a noisy HDD with an SDD on one of them and it gives my 2016 daily driver a run for its money on some things.

Good luck. Let us know what happens.

Edit to add. You might want to make another USB installation stick. When I replaced the above mentioned HDD with an SSD I tried reinstalling Mint and couldn’t get my old installation stick to work, and had to make a new one. The old one had been sitting around for a couple years. It still seems to be able to read and write files but it won’t function as an installation stick.

Not sure what happened to the Dell outlet link, but try https://www.dell.com/outlet

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Slowpoke47

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DrBonzo wrote:

If it was me, I’d go to https://www.dellrefurbished.com/ and check out their deals.

My advice as well. You can find a sturdy Dell Latitude that has been completely refurbished, and with a warranty. Sometimes with a choice of OS. I picked up one pre-loaded with Win 10 Pro and 8GB memory, and a spinner HDD. Swapped in an SSD from a desktop that I upgraded. Runs very well!

I had an Acer, but my conclusion is that was not a good choice, other than it was cheap new. It lasted about 5 years, but was not user serviceable at all.

Then I replaced the Acer with a Dell refurb for about the same cost, and am completely satisfied with that one. Dell offers a good support site, manuals, and replacement parts for years after a product is released. And many parts are user serviceable, via instructions in the user manual! 🙂

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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Slowpoke47

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I have been considering refurbished.  I have no idea how common a display cable failure, the apparent issue with our Acer, might be.  I don’t have great depth of experience in computer repair, but I do have a lifetime of experience repairing everything from heavy equipment, cars, trucks, etc. to various electronics.  If that display cable failed due to flexing, what about the expected service life of that cable in a used machine?

I would consider having a spare cable on hand for a new-to-me machine, a minimal expense to extend the computer’s life.  That said, trying to guess which part(s) might fail is a fool’s errand.

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One of the 2009 laptops I referred to above is an Acer. During it’s first 5 years it was heavily used – not often gently – and traveled all over the USA by air and land. The lid was probably open/closed at least 10,000 times. Despite some loose trim and wobbly keyboard keys, it still works very well. You just never know if or when a part will go south.

My experience with the 2 refurbished Dell laptops is that they looked almost brand new. I had to look very hard to see any sign of wear on the touchpad or keys. My guess is that they were not heavily used.

I would only buy a refurbished computer from a reputable computer manufacturer. They typically resell their own brand and they have a stake in selling good computers.

My own opinion is if I can get a refurbished laptop with 256GB SSD, 8 GB RAM, an HD monitor/screen, that looks good (indicating an easy life), and has a free return warranty for $250 to $300, I’ll do it, even moreso if I’m going to put Mint on it.

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[JohnW]

One thing about the Dell Latitude laptop, as compared to the Dell Inspiron, the business-oriented Latitude is built for business road warriors. It is a fairly rugged enterprise class machine designed to handle life on the road, compared with other often flimsy plastic consumer laptop builds.

The Latitudes are a bit pricey when new, but rather affordable as factory renewed or refurbished.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dell_Latitude

I have had a few company issued Latitudes over the years, as well as IBM Thinkpads, and Lenovos. And now my own personal Latitude, I can vouch for the advantages of this model!

Here are the current Dell certified laptop refurbs at the Dell Outlet. Refresh often as the stock is constantly updated:

https://www.dell.com/en-us/dfb/shop/refurbished-business/cp/outlet-dfb?~ck=mn

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

• This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by JohnW.

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Bill C.

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[JohnW]

Dell Latitude E5450 deal on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Dell-Latitude-E5450-Certified-Refurbished/dp/B07CTRFHW9

USD $285.89

Dell Latitude E5450 14in Laptop, Intel Core i5-5300U 2.3Ghz, 8GB RAM, 256GB Solid State Drive, Windows 10 Pro 64bit (Renewed)

https://www.amazon.com/Dell-Latitude-E5450-Certified-Refurbished/dp/B07CTRFHW9

 

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

• This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by JohnW. Reason: correct html
• This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by JohnW.
• This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by JohnW.
• This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by JohnW. Reason: correct html

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At quick glance that appears to be identical to the Dell Refurbished Latitude E5450 I got a couple years ago. I paid $269 and it had Win 8.1 Pro instead of Win 10. It’s solid and well-built and really scoots! If I needed another computer I’d snap it up.

And I agree with you about the difference between Inspiron and Latitude. I use an Inspiron 15 3558 as my daily driver (Mint 19.2 Cinnamon). I like it a lot and use it as a desktop. It’s fine for that but it’s noticeably less well built than the Latitude.

You can easily get parts and manuals for the Latitude (and Inspiron for that matter).

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JohnW

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DrBonzo wrote:

At quick glance that appears to be identical to the Dell Refurbished Latitude E5450 I got a couple years ago.

Yep, I picked up a refurb E5450 last year, after my Acer died. Solid unit, very pleased! 🙂

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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Spent some time on this yesterday and found some parts sites that call this cable discontinued, no surprise.  Looked at the Dell site, couple of possibilities there, but it’s not encouraging that the standard warranty is 100 days and the $49 extension runs only for a year.  Then looked (skeptically) at ebay on the suggestions of a couple of Mint users on the Mint forum who had good experiences going that route.  Long story short, I ordered an HP with the 17.3″ screen for $50-100 more than I would have spent for a 13″ at Dell, this HP is “certified refurbished,” has a 2-year warranty, and I have 30 days to return it.  Specs are pretty impressive.  Comes with W10, but of course, if we keep it, that OS will be replaced by Mint.

Not completely at ease with this, but the 30-day escape clause led me to try it.  As for our non-functional laptop, I plan to open it up and attempt to find any broken conductors in the display cable and repair them.  I do have some electronic repair experience and the basic equipment to do it.  As the man said, what is there to lose?

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DrBonzo

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The old laptop is officially toast.  The display cable has 3 broken wires at the hinge point as suspected, and the color code in there is incomplete, so no idea what connects to what.

The fat lady has sung 🙁

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New HP “certified refurbished”  laptop has arrived, currently on charger before I power it up.  Our old Acer has received final rites.

I have an extra-capacity battery (see pix) from the Acer that has had less than a year of use.  Don’t know if it will fit any other brands, but it won’t fit the HP.  If anyone can use it, they can have it, no cost.  PM me if interested.

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Slowpoke47 wrote:

Our old Acer has received final rites

Remember to take out HDD/SSD/eMMC… storage to keep/destroy. Same for RAM.

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Slowpoke47

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Did that.  HDD destroyed.  Circuit board disabled.  This machine had no files at all on it, but it seemed best to render it useless.  Respectfully, of course.

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End of a chapter Slowpoke47 and the begining of a new one.
Remember to dispose of electronic equipment via your local authority/community recycling center 😉

No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT- AE

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Slowpoke47

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Our local town transfer station has a container for electronics.  Next time I’m there I’ll bring the laptop carcass along with our usual trash etc.

Haven’t booted the new machine yet, but one of the many concerns re the W10 Home that came with it is the built-in telemetry.  In W7 that was defeat-able, but if I understand correctly, not possible with 10.  I was thinking I’d hold off a few days before installing Mint, but I wonder just how invasive the 10 telemetry is.

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Microfix

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Remove: creating post whilst OP posted between

No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT- AE

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Slowpoke47 wrote:

In W7 that was defeat-able, but if I understand correctly, not possible with 10.

It is possible with 3rd party software like https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10

It is advised to upgrade to Pro for better updates control.

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Since we do not plan to use W10, I’m not interested in going to any trouble with this.  Currently have this machine booted up for the first time and early on it wants me to agree to the MS service agreement that reads like War & Peace.  They want personal info which I do not want to give them.  At this point, I’m wondering just how far I have to go with this stuff before I can forget about 10 and install Mint.

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Microfix

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Slowpoke47 wrote:

Since we do not plan to use W10, I’m not interested in going to any trouble with this.  Currently have this machine booted up for the first time and early on it wants me to agree to the MS service agreement that reads like War & Peace.  They want personal info which I do not want to give them.  At this point, I’m wondering just how far I have to go with this stuff before I can forget about 10 and install Mint.

All you really need to do is connect your laptop to the internet, get Windows 10 activated (Start > Settings > Update & Security > Activation) then shut the laptop down.

The activation will be stored as a digital license on a Microsoft activation server and can be re-used if you ever want to revert from Linux Mint back to Windows in the future.

Hope this helps…

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Slowpoke47

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Trying to get this machine operational, not sure how much of the preliminary procedure is HP and what defaults to MS.  I do not want an MS account.  Although this computer came to me with W10, the goal is to replace it with Mint, our preferred OS.

I think the screens re time zone, language, etc. are HP but not sure how far I have to go with this process before installing the stick with the Mint OS.  Don’t recall this issue in the past when I installed Mint.

If I go along with all the MS nosiness, is it possible to wipe it later?

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If you’re sure you don’t want Windows, see if you can get to the BIOS the old-fashioned way – by hitting F12 during the splash screen and the setting the boot order to usb first. Then just install Mint as you normally would as the only OS on the computer.

Note it might not be the F12 key but HP website or just a google search should tell you what the right key is.

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Slowpoke47

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At this point I have been unable to get any sort of user guide or info using the model # on the seller’s ebay listing or the (tiny) numbers on the label.  Got nowhere with this on the HP site.  I’ve asked the seller for help- I assume he has some incentive because he likely doesn’t want it back.

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Do a Google search “How to access BIOS on HP…” after ‘HP’ fill in the model number of your laptop. I’ll bet you find what you need.

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Slowpoke47

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Searching via model # returned nothing useful, but I did get a somewhat generic service/ maintenance doc by shortening the model # on the label to what seems to be a product line- “HP 17”. There is a detailed description for accessing the Setup Utility that I haven’t been brave enough to try yet, but I will.

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You probably did something just like it when you set up your Acer to boot from the Mint installation usb flash drive. Usually the hardest part is getting into the BIOS, but if you hit the wrong Fkey all that will likely happen is – nothing – other than a normal boot from the hard drive. Once you get into the BIOS just take your time and be careful and you’ll be OK.

All of this assume, of course, that your new computer allows you to get to the BIOS in what I call the old fashioned way (using an F key). Seems like some of the newer versions of Win10 use another method where you you have to access BIOS from the control panel or something similar. I would think the service doc you found will tell you which method works.

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The difference with the old Acer was that it had W7 and I kept it, going dual boot.  Seems to me I just mounted the stick with the Mint download and it led me by the nose.

Here’s an excerpt of what I found in an HP 17 service manual.  It goes on to cover more on this topic.  Unable to try this today, back at it, I hope, tomorrow.

Setup Utility (BIOS)
Setup Utility, or Basic Input/Output System (BIOS), controls communication between all the input and
output devices on the system (such as disk drives, display, keyboard, mouse, and printer). Setup Utility
includes settings for the types of peripherals installed, the startup sequence of the computer, and the
amount of system and extended memory.
CAUTION: Use extreme care when making changes in Setup Utility. Errors can prevent the computer
from operating properly.
Starting Setup Utility
NOTE: The fingerprint reader (select models only) cannot be used to access Setup Utility.
●
Turn on or restart the computer. While the “Press the ESC key for Startup Menu” message is
displayed in the lower-left corner of the screen, press esc. When the Startup Menu is displayed,
press f10.
Using Setup Utility
Changing the language of Setup Utility
1. Start Setup Utility.
2. Use the arrow keys to select System Configuration > Language, and then press enter.
3. Use the arrow keys to select a language, and then press enter.
4. When a confirmation prompt with your language selected is displayed, press enter.
5. To save your change and exit Setup Utility, use the arrow keys to select Exit > Exit Saving
Changes, and then press enter.
Your change takes effect immediately

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Microfix

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May I make a small suggestion here? I have a feeling that the HP 17 service manual and its procedure to get to the Setup Utility has given you a major key to try. You don’t necessarily have to go all the way to the Setup Utility, but after starting or restarting the computer, and pressing the ESC key will get you into the Startup Menu. It’s possible that this menu will allow you to change the boot sequence. That will allow you to boot from the USB port or the DVD drive (assuming there is one) before the hard drive gets involved. BTW, if you don’t see the “Press the ESC key for Startup Menu” message when the computer boots, just start tapping away at the ESC when you see the computer begin its booting process.

If that works, you can then choose to boot to a flash drive containing the Mint installation files.

Another possibility if you really want to save the Win10 setup that is on the hard drive currently, is to get some disk imaging software that boots from a USB drive or DVD and image the drive (you’d have to attach a storage device that is large enough to save the image separately from the partition(s) you are imaging and get it off the drive later). That allows you to save the drive setup as a backdoor/emergency hatch for some future use.

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Have you tried pressing and holding down one of the following keys during startup F10, F2 or DEL? Older HP devices with ‘insyde bios’ were accessible by holding the ESC key down during bootup which displayed a choice of further functions via an onscreen menu.

No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT- AE

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Slowpoke47

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See my response to DrBonzo just above.  Your help and everyone else’s greatly appreciated.  I think sometimes I seem to be a dufus, but in my defense, my computer introduction was only in the Vista time frame, I’ve had no guidance except for here, and a good part of what I’ve learned was by doing it wrong and then (with help here) recovering.

 

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Microfix

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Ok, it reads like that 17″ laptop has an HP ‘insyde’ BIOS firmware setup.
The objective (if not keeping W10) is to change the boot sequence to either a DVD or USB primary boot device,(depending on what Linux Mint media is available to you), then install Mint over Windows 10 (I prefer to wipe drives clean prior to installation, personal preference)
Then during installation use LUKS/LVM for drive encryption to secure your laptop further at initial stages and install Mint.
I’d recommend using LUKS/LVM as a security measure on linx, in case someone steals your laptop. They have no access to data within unless they know the passkey.
If keeping W10, then you will need to image that drive to a backup drive. let us know what you decide first before proceeding.

It would be a good idea to start a new topic whichever option you choose 😉

No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT- AE

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Slowpoke47

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Ok, it reads like that 17″ laptop has an HP ‘insyde’ BIOS firmware setup. 

Bear in mind that this manual appears to be somewhat generic, and likely older that the specific machine I bought.  Elsewhere in this manual there are minor differences between what it shows and the various buttons, ports, etc. on mine.  Yesterday when I was searching the full model #, the HP site was down, I’ll try it again tomorrow, and if the manual I excerpted is all I can find, I’ll go with it.

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I just dug out my old manual for an HP pavilion laptop from 2009. The directions appear very similar to those you posted above. Mine also says that when you see the press escape key message you can just hit the F10 key (i. e., bypass hitting the ESC key)

BTW you are not a dufus. Some folks here probably access the BIOS on a regular basis so it’s almost second nature to them. Others, like me, access a BIOS maybe once a year, and still need to really think and be careful. And still others are like you and rarely if ever access a BIOS. So, yeah, you might feel unsure.

You may need to experiment a bit about when to press the F10 key because the Press ESC key message can sometimes literally be a quick flash on your screen. The first time I tried to access a BIOS I had a heck of a time getting the timing right. At least with up to Win 8.1, if the timing is wrong the only thing that will happen is that you’ll just boot into the OS from the hard drive. If that happens shut down and try again. Maybe just boot the computer and carefully watch the screen to see what messages pop up and when. That’ll give you a feel for when to press the F key.

It might take a handful of tries, but nothing bad will happen, you’ll just get frustrated. But you’ll get it.

And FWIW, to me the hardest part of installing Mint was getting into the BIOS to set the boot order. After that the actual installation process led me by the nose, as you say.

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Slowpoke47

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Back at this today.  HP support site is down, but looks like I have what I need by searching “HP 17″ which I think is a range of 17” laptops.  Previously I have searched using the full model number which returned nothing.  I’ll peruse the info for some clue as to how to proceed.

Another (small?) glitch has come up- our network wiring outlets have sockets that are basically square shaped, and the cables to the computers fit these outlets.  The HP has a flat RJ45 port, which I think is an upgraded version.  So- are there adapters of some sort, or do I have to buy a new cable with flat plugs on both ends?  If so, I’ll need to change the wall socket, and I don’t know if the color coding will be self-explanatory.

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Slowpoke47 wrote:

Another (small?) glitch has come up- our network wiring outlets have sockets that are basically square shaped, and the cables to the computers fit these outlets. The HP has a flat RJ45 port, which I think is an upgraded version. So- are there adapters of some sort, or do I have to buy a new cable with flat plugs on both ends?

https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Notebook-Wireless-and-Networking/Ethernet-Port-too-small-on-17-w053dx/td-p/6236686

uses standard RJ-45 port but is has a “door”, please open that “door” to have full size RJ-45 port (sorry I don’t know it real name, I call it as a door, just use your finger to open it).

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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Slowpoke47

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Thanks for that “instant” response.  In my small-ish town there are no computer shops, but there are Staples and Walmart stores, which carry an assortment of computer stuff.  I’ll try them.

If I understand correctly, the flat plugs are the updated versions of network connectors.  I’ve seen terms cat5, cat5e, etc.  Are they interchangeable?

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Cat5, 5e, etc, are properly cable standards, and as such these terms refer to the performance level of the wire itself, not the kinds of connectors on the ends, but in common usage, a “Cat5e cable” will have the connectors that are referred to as RJ45s. This is what you need. There is no updated plug… just open the little spring loaded door. I just use the plastic connector to push the door down and push it into the jack with one motion on my G3.

 

Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/16GB & GTX1660ti, KDE Neon
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, KDE Neon (and Win 11 for maintenance)

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Slowpoke47

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Thanks, I think I understand that now.  The Mint installation just completed, but with Internet connection MIA.  New thread: https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/hp-laptop-mint-installation/#post-2375192

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Slowpoke47 wrote:

If I understand correctly, the flat plugs are the updated versions of network connectors. I’ve seen terms cat5, cat5e, etc. Are they interchangeable?

Did you read the post at that HP link? I think that you may already have everything you need to connect RJ45 to that new laptop!

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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Slowpoke47

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Yes, I did, and tried the “door” but I didn’t push the cable connector forcefully enough because it didn’t seem to fit.  Just now tried again, and it’s in.  Took more of a push, thanks.

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Slowpoke47 wrote:

it wants me to agree to the MS service agreement that reads like War & Peace.

It you decline Microsoft’s EULA / format and install Linux, you can demand re-fund for Windows 10, usually ~$50.

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Slowpoke47

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That’s interesting.  Could it make a difference that this machine is refurbished, so I am not the original purchaser?  No idea of its history before me, or how old it is.

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Not on a refurbished machine.

cheers, Paul

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Microfix wrote:

It would be a good idea to start a new topic whichever option you choose 😉

New thread:  https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/hp-laptop-mint-installation/

Not familiar with the terminology LUKS/LVM but perhaps this can be later, down the line.

 

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Microfix

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Slowpoke47 wrote:

If I go along with all the MS nosiness, is it possible to wipe it later?

Yes. Once Windows 10 is activated then you can wipe it to your heart’s content. (I personally would also download/create a Windows 10 installer USB now using the Microsoft Media Creation Tool (MCT) available from here.)

If you ever want to revert back from Linux Mint to Windows, do a clean install (whilst disconnected from the internet so you can create a local account easily) using the MCT tool. You won’t get saddled with all the HP bloatware and can download any HP-specific drivers directly from HP’s support site.

Once installed, Windows will activate automatically when it’s first connected to the internet, using the digital license already stored on Microsoft’s activation servers.

Hope this helps…

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Slowpoke47

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