If you’re using Win10 1703, and you want to wait a bit to move to 1709, there may be a problem. Yesterday, Microsoft announced that 1709 is “fully ava
[See the full post at: Another report of Win10 Creators Update (1703) users getting pushed to Fall Creators Update (1709), even with defer updates set]
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There are isolated problems with current patches, but they are well-known and documented on this site. |
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Another report of Win10 Creators Update (1703) users getting pushed to Fall Creators Update (1709), even with defer updates set
- This topic has 52 replies, 22 voices, and was last updated 5 years, 6 months ago.
AuthorViewing 23 reply threadsAuthor-
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Very good question… and I have no idea!
It’d sure b e nice if Microsoft documented this stuff….
4 users thanked author for this post.
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It’d sure b e nice if Microsoft documented this stuff….
Somehow, I don’t think Microsoft documenting ways of preventing Microsoft from doing what Microsoft wants is terribly likely!
Microsoft has always been clear about which party is in control here. You can request that Microsoft not do its updates during certain hours, but on their terms (don’t think they will permit you to set ALL of them to active; it’s only your PC part of the time). You can request that Microsoft not download updates over your expensive metered connection, but they will violate that request and do it anyway if they find a given update important enough (make no mistake; it’s completely up to them). You can request that Microsoft ‘defer’ updates, but inherent within that term is the obvious; the decision to take the update eventually does not belong to you, but to Microsoft.
Given all of that, is it really a surprise that MS will ignore the deferral option if they feel like it?
They are altering the deal. Pray they don’t alter it any further. (Wow, that’s apparently risen to “meme” status now? I’ve been using that for ages…)
And still I see people ask what’s wrong with Windows 10 on some sites out there. I guess it’s like the privacy thing… some people just don’t and won’t ever care about the loss of control. It doesn’t even register as a real concern, I guess, for some people.
Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/16GB & GTX1660ti, KDE Neon
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, KDE Neon (and Win 11 for maintenance)15 users thanked author for this post.
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+1 about they are altering the deal. Yes, very true, they are altering the deal.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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Have you seen 1709 in WUShowHid? Doesn’t show for me. From my understanding it could be forced before it can be hidden …
1 user thanked author for this post.
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Chillax~I saw it in my hidden updates. Trust me-I DOUBLE CHECK each morning before I browse the web. I hid like an update for win 1703 with antivirus thingy. And last I checked the other day-1709 is still UNDER Hidden updates I’ve hid. 🙂 So no way that nasty little b***** gonna try to install under my watch. I make sure of it.
Each morning after ccleaner, advanced system care and disk check, I run the windows update, check the win hide program, check for any new updates to hide and BAM! I disable windows update so nothing tries to install or anything.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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Isnt’t that too much hassle to go through every morning just before going to work?
One is supposed to sit down in front of the computer every morning, resume it from hibernation (or turn it back on) and get back to work. No jumping through hoops like a circus animal before earning your safe treat. Getting work done is supposed to be the main goal, not some sort of reward.
After a good stable period with Win XP and 7, Microsoft just got it all wrong. Again.
2 users thanked author for this post.
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I started out with Home and paid the 100.00 to upgrade to Pro for the only reason of being able to have some control over updates. If this is indeed the case, and anyone from Microsoft is reading this, i want my ( bleep ) money back 🙁 I think the government or some other regulating body needs to take a good look at this company’s business practices. This is not a rant, just my humble opinion.
14 users thanked author for this post.
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I have pretty much given up on W10 because it is my box, period. I demand final control of the box overall issues; delaying updates if I think necessary, remaining on whatever still supported version it is one, etc. Even if the delay is because I need to finish something before a reboot.
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I don’t have anything positive to add to the conversation except to agree!
As long as MS insists on doing things “their way or the highway”, no way am I moving on to Win-10. Win-7 & 8.1 = stable, nag-free, spyware-free, 100% user control, MY WAY. And that’s how it should be, period.
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Same here.
I work in a local government agency, and I have REAL trouble explaining to the directors that if we roll out Windows 10, we have no way of blocking games that Microsoft is pushing at all Windows 10 editions, such as Candy Crush, etc., and/or new features that may or may not break compatibility with our programs.
What is the point of having a “Business” edition, when you can’t block non-business applications, like games, from being installed by Microsoft itself, at their whim?
So yes, we will use Windows 7 until the very last critical update date in 2020. (And I still think they’ll have to go beyond that because there are many others in a similar situation to us.)
No matter where you go, there you are.
4 users thanked author for this post.
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One of the primary complaints with W10 is the actual or potential loss of control over the computer. MS is forgetting a cardinal rule in business: never alienate your customers. In your case, you are rightfully worried about what will be installed behind your back as well as some, reasonable, future incompatibility with a mission critical application. Both pose real problems with the primary function of your (or anyone else’s) equipment; a tool to do something.
Steve Jobs once said his goal with the Mac was to make computers appliances (think refrigerator). I think that goal is what MS should remember, people want an useful ‘appliance’.
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I always thought that what Jobs meant by “appliances” was that he wanted to turn computers into machines that did only certain functions specified at the factory, and nothing else. Like a refrigerator: you can’t use it to make toast, mow the lawn, or go to a museum. It is designed to perform certain limited purposes and is incapable of doing anything else.
I don’t want my PC to become like a fridge, I want it to remain the versatile machine it’s always been, and not something whose operations are limited to what Apple or Microsoft tell me I can use it for.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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‘Tellingly, Microsoft’s official Windows 10 release information page (see screenshot) is all over the map. While Cable’s announcement seems to designate 1709 as a “Semi-Annual Channel” release (formerly Current Branch for Business), in fact Microsoft’s page still shows it as “Semi-Annual Channel (Targeted)” which corresponds to the old “Current Branch.”’
Tweet from Michael Niehaus: “Yes, the release info page will be updated at the same time that media is available. […]”
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I pushed registry settings for group policies delaying the feature updates on Home versions of 1607 and used lgpo to import policies on Pro versions.
Recently, the home versions stopped respecting the parameters and updated to 1709 while I have none of the PRO version that updated. But I was for a reason or another able to skipping 1703 entirely using this on the Home versions. I never used any other trick like wushowhide or metered connections.
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Home editions are excluded from any defer policies since ver 1511
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If you really want to get p****d at Microsoft, try my laptop with is not 1709 compatible. It downloads, attempts to install THEN gives the message that the named Atom processor is incompatible. Every time I update I need to set metered connection and suffer Microsoft’s stupidity not checking the processor before download to get other updates loaded before setting metered connection again Imagine the wasted bandwidth and degraded performance in the following (list extracted from Windows via code – 28 failures to date). Sometime during my attempt to solve the problem via Microsoft there was a link for further information. That led to advertising for a Surface. They have to be kidding. After this experience nobody in their right mind would risk MS hardware! I only stick with Windows due to too many years experience with VBA in Office products to toss away. Here are the failures so far
8/01/2018 Feature update to Windows 10, version 1709 Failed
8/01/2018 Feature update to Windows 10, version 1709 Failed
8/01/2018 Feature update to Windows 10, version 1709 Failed
8/01/2018 Feature update to Windows 10, version 1709 Failed
8/01/2018 Feature update to Windows 10, version 1709 Failed
8/01/2018 Feature update to Windows 10, version 1709 Failed
8/01/2018 Feature update to Windows 10, version 1709 Failed
8/01/2018 Feature update to Windows 10, version 1709 Failed
8/01/2018 Feature update to Windows 10, version 1709 Failed
8/01/2018 Feature update to Windows 10, version 1709 Failed
8/01/2018 Feature update to Windows 10, version 1709 Failed
8/01/2018 Feature update to Windows 10, version 1709 Failed
8/01/2018 Feature update to Windows 10, version 1709 Failed
8/01/2018 Feature update to Windows 10, version 1709 Failed
8/01/2018 Feature update to Windows 10, version 1709 Failed
8/01/2018 Feature update to Windows 10, version 1709 Failed
8/01/2018 Feature update to Windows 10, version 1709 Failed
10/12/2017 Feature update to Windows 10, version 1709 Failed
10/12/2017 Feature update to Windows 10, version 1709 Failed
6/11/2017 Feature update to Windows 10, version 1709 Failed
2/11/2017 Feature update to Windows 10, version 1709 Failed
2/11/2017 Feature update to Windows 10, version 1709 Failed
2/11/2017 Feature update to Windows 10, version 1709 Failed
2/11/2017 Feature update to Windows 10, version 1709 Failed
2/11/2017 Feature update to Windows 10, version 1709 Failed
2/11/2017 Feature update to Windows 10, version 1709 Failed
2/11/2017 Feature update to Windows 10, version 1709 Failed
26/10/2017 Feature update to Windows 10, version 1709 Failed
Group A (but Telemetry disabled Tasks and Registry)
1) Dell Inspiron with Win 11 64 Home permanently in dock due to "sorry spares no longer made".
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Just consider it to be the subtle way of Microsoft suggesting you to upgrade the laptop!
Your idea of checking processor type _before_ starting download sounds brilliant, but how often do you see Microsoft and brilliant in same sentence?
Try starting a thrwad in Microsoft Answers forum… good luck!
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Just updated 2 Win10 1703 systems.
Set to CBB, Defer feature updates 365. Changed the Quality updates from 30 to 0 days and ran a check for updates. Downloaded and installed Office and windows updates but stayed on version 1703. We’ll see what happens next week! 🙂
Never Say Never
UPDATE: Here’s another report of a “hard” bug in 1709:
Windows 10 Fall Creators Update is hit by a new bug that prevents installation, especially for devices with Intel’s X299 chipset and an NVMe SSD drive.
Thx SB.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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UPDATE: Here’s another report of a “hard” bug in 1709:
Windows 10 Fall Creators Update is hit by a new bug that prevents installation, especially for devices with Intel’s X299 chipset and an NVMe SSD drive.Fixed for many a month ago by an ASUS BIOS update:
Windows 11 Pro version 22H2 build 22621.2361 + Microsoft 365 + Edge
1 user thanked author for this post.
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Hello Woody!
I want to report you another bug with this cumulative update of this month (8th of January 2018) in Windows 8.1 and in Windows 10 with SEP 14. The official forum only says that it only affects Windows 10, but it affects too in Windows 8.1.
“The latest Microsoft patch is causing Symantec Endpoint Protection 14.0 RU1 MP1 (14.0.3876.1100) to report “Product Error requires attention” and the SEP system tray icon to report “There are multiple problems (2)”.
This is the official forum link of symantec:
https://www.symantec.com/connect/forums/latest-win10-update-corrupts-sep14
The shame list says that Symantec endpoint is ready for this month’s cumulative update, but it isn’t ready:
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I have a desktop computer that the 1709 update has ignored for months. Then on last Friday with no warning my Internet access slowed down significantly. It does this whenever an application decides to update. After a few hours, I turned off the computer. Coming back the next day, when the computer was turned on I discovered that the1709 update was being installed, so for the next two hours I had no way to use the computer to get my office work done. Also, despite the MS claim that my settings would remain unchanged, the lock screen picture is gone and can not be re-established. And that is just the first example, I am stil finding more collateral damage days later. Don’t even ask what MS did to my nicely tiled start screen.
= Ax Kramer
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I came in on January 3rd to find almost all (100+) Windows 10 PCs that were on older versions than v1709 downloading from Microsoft – and, interestingly, all from the same IP address: 13.107.4.50.
All these PCs are Win 10 Pro and are on WSUS for updates, with Domain group policy set to enforce this.
This is bad news, as we had found nearly a 50% failure-rate on our PCs, and some compatibility issues, when testing the v1709 update and had therefore decided to hold off releasing this. Sure enough, about half of the feature updates failed to install. In most cases the “restore previous version of Windows” worked, but in one case this failed and went into a retry loop. This installation proved impossible to repair and the PC had to be reformatted.
In some cases it also appears that the Windows 10 Update Assistant had been installed (or at least updated – the installation date in Programs and Features showed Jan 3rd.) This then continually re-attempted the v1709 install. Even uninstalling the Update Assistant did not always help as it would reinstall itself. Eventually I found scheduled tasks had been created to run the Update assistant – again, dated 3rd Jan. Removing these and unistalling the Update Assistant did usually stop this behaviour.
Not a good way to start the year 🙁
We have now added “DisableWindowsUpdateAssistant” and “DisableWindowsUpdateAccess” to our Windows Update Settings GPO.
Note: DisableWindowsUpdateAccess does not stop updates from WSUS, despite the name.
This took a while to find, as it’s not under the Windows Update template, but under System/Internet Communication Management/Internet Communication settings.Other ways of stopping PCs downloading Windows updates – including feature updates – directly from MS servers had to be abandoned as they also broke the Microsoft Store.
Not good.
I was quite surprised not to see more people suffering similar issues, as this suddently came out of the blue after our Xmas/New-Year break. Note, most of these PCs would have been shut down on December 24th.
There were quite a few complaining about the Windows 10 Upgrade Assistant thing, but virtually nothing about WSUS-managed PCs suddenly downloading updates directly from MS – and these included driver updates too, incidentally, which I also block on WSUS.
Anyone else out there seeing this??
Chris.
Thanks Mr B – I had looked at this before.
As the referenced MS blog says:
Windows updates from WSUS, blocking WU access entirely – the “workaround” scenario. If you have blocked access to Windows Update, then enabling the policy described in this post is irrelevant. Note that this workaround is no longer necessary and that you can control WU access by combining deferral policies with Disable Dual Scan.For us this is not a “workaround.” At the moment it’s essential that we have complete control of updates, and feature updates in particular. Given the 50% failure rate and potential bricking of PCs with v1709 it’s even more important.
Even with planned feature updates, we need to control exactly which PCs are scheduled to update and warn the users beforehand – and give them advice such as to reboot their PCs when they leave the office rather than just shut down, and then spend two hours waiting for their PC to be useable the next day…
Hopefully, v1803 is going to perform better than v1709 in the upgrade process.
If not, we may have no choice but to reformat and reload Windows on 200+ PCs 🙁On my own PC the upgrade to v1709 (from 1703) failed repeatedly, and I investigated various ways of getting it to work, including disconnecting all USB devices, using the Upgrade Assistant, using the ISO installer, etc. None worked. It always complained about “incompatible hardware.” Eventually I tried a clean boot with all unnecessary services and programs disabled. This worked. v1709 installed successfully.
All appeared fine. Then I re-enabled the services and programs…
Now unbootable – and impossible to repair.I now have a new PC and have lost days if not weeks of time setting this up and finding alternatives to the network management software that I can no longer install, etc.
We can’t afford to have this happen on a large scale.
C.
4 users thanked author for this post.
I was one of the people who got pushed last November to 1709 despite having Current Branch for Business set in Win10 Pro with a delay that should have blocked it. That was the bad news.
There was good news too: No issues for me from Win 10 Pro 1709. It’s consistently run very smoothly.
But the other bad news is that these major-version upgrades do temporarily break some things for me. For example, I still use a legacy, non-subscription, legally-licensed version of Adobe Audition that in combination with my SoundBlaster audio card driver, goes kerflooey every time Win 10 does a major version upgrade. I’ve kept detailed log notes on how to reset everything, but it still takes more time than I’d like, and until I do it, I can’t stream-record the way I otherwise can in Adobe Audition. Also a couple programs I have are twitchy enough that they insist on reactivating licenses, which is easy enough, but an annoyance. I’d rather do all this on my schedule than Microsoft’s, and as someone else pointed out, I paid for that privilege with the Windows Pro-rather-than-free-Home license.
I have another laptop which I rarely connect to the web that had legal Win 7 Home, not Pro. It got automatically updated early to Win 10. And it didn’t run well on Win 10. My antivirus program, for example, broke and couldn’t be completely uninstalled–it kept nagging to be reactivated no matter what I did. A couple weeks ago, I took a *day* to R&R back to Win 7 and shut off updates past the point where the Win 10 stuff started creeping in. I’ll also keep that laptop off the web. The old laptop serves the purpose I need. When we paid for Win 7, we paid for an OS that should have been able to do this without MS’s nonsense.
From Microsoft Explains Its Windows 10 Update Messaging Goals (January 17, 2018): ‘In a Wednesday phone interview, Niehaus explained Microsoft’s communication approach with regard to Windows 10 updates. It has been trying to arrive at a more uniform messaging, both for consumers and IT pros. Last week, Microsoft noted the “full availability” of Windows 10 update 1709, but that phrase is just an attempt to prod awareness. The full availability release is the same thing as the semiannual channel release. Microsoft was just giving advance notice.’
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