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  • Another Win10 version 1903 redline bug: Disconnected RDP sessions peg dwm.exe at 100% utilization

    Home Forums AskWoody blog Another Win10 version 1903 redline bug: Disconnected RDP sessions peg dwm.exe at 100% utilization

    This topic contains 18 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  NetDef 1 month, 1 week ago.

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    • #1938444 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      Here’s an oldie but goodie just mentioned to me by Günter Born…. In Win10 version 1903, if you use a computer to RDP into another computer, and then
      [See the full post at: Another Win10 version 1903 redline bug: Disconnected RDP sessions peg dwm.exe at 100% utilization]

    • #1938508 Reply

      NetDef
      AskWoody_MVP

      This is a major problem as the old XDDM drivers do not support RDP acceleration/performance boosts like RemoteFX and GPU virtualization. For end-users that need high performance remote desktops this makes the experience pretty awful.

      ~ Group "Weekend" ~

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #1938523 Reply

      b
      AskWoody Plus

      Here’s an oldie but goodie just mentioned to me by Günter Born….

      In Win10 version 1903, if you use a computer to RDP into another computer, and then disconnect the RDP session on the second computer (without logging out), dwm.exe redlines one core on the originating machine.

      Although Günter says the issue surfaces on the client system, every user report I can find through your links and his (those that specify) say that the problem occurs on the host system (i.e. target machine, not originating machine).

      Knuckle dragger Cannon fodder Chump Daft glutton Idiot Crazy/Ignorant Toxic drinker Blockhead Unwashed mass Seeker/Sucker "Ancient/Obsolete" (Group ASAP) Win10 v.1909

      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1938524 Reply

        NetDef
        AskWoody_MVP

        I noticed the same discrepancy, think it might be a translation glitch.

        The CPU core redlining is definitely happening on impacted systems on the RDP host (the target).

        I’m seeing this on two machines at the moment, both for clients that like to remote in and use graphically demanding applications. The work-around on forcing the XDDM driver is a total bust for my use-case as the performance drop is too severe to be tolerable.

        ~ Group "Weekend" ~

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        b, woody
      • #1938525 Reply

        woody
        Da Boss

        So this happens on the target (puppet) machine, running 1903, when disconnecting but not logging off?

        • #1938529 Reply

          NetDef
          AskWoody_MVP

          Yes. But not all machines that took the patch that started this problem are doing it. I’m looking at them now trying to figure out why.

          (Notes: I have five matching machines, only two exhibit this problem. All are on 1903, all have the same video cards and drivers: Quadro P4000 from NVidia. All are patched as of last Sunday.)

          ~ Group "Weekend" ~

          1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #1938551 Reply

          NetDef
          AskWoody_MVP

          And another note: on other forums I see folks saying “Well, like, log off you goofus.”

          They totally do not get that logging off is not the right work-around. It’s not at all uncommon to RDP in, start a long winded process, close the RDP session from the client site, and return to it hours later to check on the process.

          That single core red-lining slows down the actual work I’m expecting my host computer to complete during my absence.

          ~ Group "Weekend" ~

          2 users thanked author for this post.
          woody, b
          • #1938553 Reply

            b
            AskWoody Plus

            And another note: on other forums I see folks saying “Well, like, log off you goofus.”

            They totally do not get that logging off is not the right work-around. It’s not at all uncommon to RDP in, start a long winded process, close the RDP session from the client site, and return to it hours later to check on the process.

            You just stopped me from saying that! 😁

            Is it recommended to log off from Windows when finished working on a server with RDP?

            Knuckle dragger Cannon fodder Chump Daft glutton Idiot Crazy/Ignorant Toxic drinker Blockhead Unwashed mass Seeker/Sucker "Ancient/Obsolete" (Group ASAP) Win10 v.1909

            2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #1938554 Reply

      geekdom
      AskWoody Plus

      What is the impact this problem will have on DejaBlue prevention?

      Group G{ot backup} TestBeta
      Win7Pro · x64 · SP1 · i3-3220 · RAM 8GB · Firefox: uBlock Origin - NoScript · HDD · Canon Printer · Microsoft Security Essentials · Windows: Backup - System Image - Rescue Disk - Firewall
    • #1938557 Reply

      NetDef
      AskWoody_MVP

      Update on my two wayward RDP host machines:

      Updated the video drivers using a clean driver install (NVidia check box during manual setup) to a release from yesterday.

      Optimal Drivers for Enterprise'(ODE) branch release for NVidia Quadro P-series Enterprise
      Version: R430 U6 (431.86) WHQL
      Release Date: 2019.9.4
      Operating System: Windows 10 64-bit

      I’m no longer seeing a core redlining when I leave PerfMon running in the background and close the RDP session.

      I do NOT see new drivers from NVidia for the consumer lines (August dates) that might address this issue. If I owned those cards I would be keeping a watch out for an upcoming driver.

      ~ Group "Weekend" ~

      2 users thanked author for this post.
      woody, b
      • #1938797 Reply

        Alex5723
        AskWoody Plus

        Update on my two wayward RDP host machines:

        Updated the video drivers using a clean driver install (NVidia check box during manual setup) to a release from yesterday.

        Optimal Drivers for Enterprise'(ODE) branch release for NVidia Quadro P-series Enterprise
        Version: R430 U6 (431.86) WHQL
        Release Date: 2019.9.4
        Operating System: Windows 10 64-bit

        I’m no longer seeing a core redlining when I leave PerfMon running in the background and close the RDP session.

        I do NOT see new drivers from NVidia for the consumer lines (August dates) that might address this issue. If I owned those cards I would be keeping a watch out for an upcoming driver.

        Why do you point at NVidia as the culprit and not at Intel’s Built-in GPU ?

        • #1938956 Reply

          NetDef
          AskWoody_MVP

          I don’t use Intel GPU’s on workstations. This is specific to one (of many) GPU interactions. YMMV.

          Perhaps given this question I should point out that WDDM drivers come from:

          a) Microsoft for VM’s and where none other is available for onboard GPU’s.
          b) Some driver packages for commercial video cards/circuits.

          Also of note is that NVidia and AMD provide special WDDM drivers for their enterprise cards specifically designed to increase RDP performance. (They may also do this for “gaming” cards, but I would not know.)

          Intel may provide such, but I hate their driver update frequency. Slow to fix video issues.

          ~ Group "Weekend" ~

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #1938994 Reply

            Microfix
            Da Boss

            IoW nvdia Quadro’s are far superior in drivers and 2D performance over intel generic stuff.
            Favoured by my myself for CAD and design work for many years without some of the GeForce GPU gaming extensions.
            Matrox used to do this with their cards also years back..

            ********** Win7 x64/x86 | Win8.1 x64 | Linux Hybrids x64 **********

            1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #1939034 Reply

              NetDef
              AskWoody_MVP

              And as a side note of interest, the workstations I was servicing earlier today were exactly for those apps: AutoCAD and Revit . . . 😉

              ~ Group "Weekend" ~

    • #1939027 Reply

      zero2dash
      AskWoody Lounger

      I RDP from a 1903 to another 1903 and have not seen this issue myself.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      b
      • #1939036 Reply

        NetDef
        AskWoody_MVP

        I can’t find a consistent thing to point a finger at myself. I had more than two machines that matched, but only the two were suffering from this problem. Makes no sense unless something random is being corrupted in the patching process.

        Intermittent and inconsistent issues are really hard to accurately diagnose.

        ~ Group "Weekend" ~

    • #1939242 Reply

      WildBill
      AskWoody Plus

      I know this is specific to RDP… but I’m having Serious doubts now about going from Win8.1 to Win10 1909 AKA “1903 Service Pack”. If 1903 is as buggy as it is this month & probably next, how confident can I be that 1909 has cleaned up the goofs? & isn’t introducing new bugs… uhh, Features not in 1903?!

      Windows 8.1, 64-bit, leaning toward returning to Group A... & toward Windows 10 V1909. As long as it's a Lot Less Buggy!
      Wild Bill Rides Again...

      • #1939391 Reply

        zero2dash
        AskWoody Lounger

        I’ve experienced (or had no reports of) none of the bugs Woody has reported at home and at work with several dozen 1903 machines.

        I’m not saying these bugs don’t exist, but they’re not being widely reported on /r either, which is typically the first place where people lose their minds over Win10 issues.

        Several posters here have reported similar findings with their 1903 machines/environments, ie no issues.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #1941023 Reply

      NetDef
      AskWoody_MVP

      @woody

      Here’s an update on what happened in my test lab yesterday. (Recapping a bit from above posts, sorry . . . )

      Five machines, matching hardware, all on Windows 10 Pro 1903. GPUs are from NVidia’s Quadro P-series line (last years models.)

      Out of those, only two machines were exhibiting the CPU red-line (on one core) bug for RDP when the client disconnected without first logging off. They both started doing this right after I allowed the August 2019 patches on them over the last weekend.

      At first I solved the problem by installing the latest drivers from NVidia. And that worked, but it bugged me that the other three had not needed the special attention. And now that I’ve found the difference, not certain that installing the drivers did all that much except reset something in the guts of RDP to address the correct WDDM drivers. (This is a theory, I really don’t know.)

      Took me a while to find a real difference, but turns out that on the two machines with the problem, both had the Intel GPU (on their motherboards) enabled in BIOS – an oversight on my part when they were configured. The other three machines (which were behaving fine) had their Intel GPU’s DISABLED in Bios.

      Hope this helps someone else with the problem.

      ~ Group "Weekend" ~

      2 users thanked author for this post.

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