Are Bluekeep patches causing BSODs with Server 2008 SP2 and Vista?

[PKCanoDa Boss]

There are reports that the Monthly Rollups started causing problems with Server 2008 SP2 beginning in April. It seems the same issues have occurred on
[See the full post at: Are Bluekeep patches causing BSODs with Server 2008 SP2 and Vista?]

3 users thanked author for this post.

woody, lmacri, GreatAndPowerfulTech

[CybertoothAskWoody Lounger]

Yes. Well, not a BSOD, exactly. My Vista laptop took KB4499149 just fine, but my Vista tower rebooted to a black screen and I had to use System Restore from the recovery partition to bring the PC back to a usable state.

The exact same thing happened with KB4499180 on the Vista tower: black screen, needed System Restore.

FWIW, both machines use Norton 360, not Avast.

 

1 user thanked author for this post.

lmacri

[anonymous]

@Cybertooth: Does the Vista tower affected by a black screen have a non-SSE2 processor? (Microsoft hasn’t worried about making Windows updates compatible with those since early 2018.) Since your Vista laptop was unaffected, Norton 360 is obviously not the issue.

[CybertoothAskWoody Lounger]

I just checked, and it does feature SSE2 among other things. (Not really sure what SSE2 means or does, but it does have it.) The CPU is an Intel Pentium Dual E2200.

 

[PRBAskWoody Lounger]

Yes, BSOD with KB4499180 on Vista. That’s with AVG 18. Ran repair from the installation disc to fix it.

2 users thanked author for this post.

lmacri, Elly

[lmacriAskWoody Lounger]

Hi PKCano:

I haven’t tried the recommended KB4499180 on my own machine but there are other Vista SP2 users besides Cybertooth like Pim and dinosaur who have reported problems with the May 2019 Window Server 2008 rollups in Woody’s 15-May-2019 thread MS-DEFCON 3: Get Windows XP, Win7 and Associated Servers Patched. Other Vista SP2 users posting in Jody Thorton’s MSFN thread Server 2008 Updates on Windows Vista have also reported a variety of problems like BSODs and general system instability in recent months, and as Cybertooth noted above in post # 1811923 not all these issues are related to Avast/AVG. The general consensus seems to be that any Win Server 2008 rollup released after the March 2019 Patch Tuesday (i.e., rollups that change Vista SP2 from build number 6.0.6002.x to 6.0.6003.x) can cause issues with various third-party programs.

To add to the confusion, the release notes at https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4499180/windows-server-2008-update-kb4499180 also recommend that the April 2019 Servicing Stack Update KB4493730 for Windows Server 2008 should be applied before the recommended KB4499180 patch, although there is still some debate if that suggestion applies to Vista SP2 as well as Win Server 2008 users.

What Vista SP2 users really need is for Microsoft to release an out-of-band security update for Vista SP2 that is specifically targeted to patch the Remote Desktop / Terminal Services vulnerability CVE-2019-0708 as they did for Win XP SP3, instead of expecting us to install a Windows Server 2008 rollup that changes the build number of our OS and includes other security updates (e.g., Windows App Platform and Frameworks, Microsoft Graphics Component, Windows Storage and Filesystems, Windows Cryptography, Windows Kernel, Windows Server, the Microsoft JET Database Engine,etc.) that can result in general instability and software and/or hardware driver conflicts on some systems.
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32-bit Vista Home Premium SP2 * Firefox ESR v52.9.0 * Norton Security v22.15.2.22

3 users thanked author for this post.

woody, Cybertooth, PKCano

[PRBAskWoody Lounger]

lmacri wrote:

To add to the confusion, the release notes at https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4499180/windows-server-2008-update-kb4499180 also recommend that the April 2019 Servicing Stack Update KB4493730 for Windows Server 2008 should be applied before the recommended KB4499180 patch, although there is still some debate if that suggestion applies to Vista SP2 as well as Win Server 2008 users.

I tried KB4499180 both ways on Vista, with and without the SSU installed – same result, BSOD on restart.

1 user thanked author for this post.

lmacri

[CybertoothAskWoody Lounger]

lmacri wrote:

instead of expecting us to install a Windows Server 2008 rollup that changes the build number of our OS and includes other security updates (e.g., Windows App Platform and Frameworks, Microsoft Graphics Component

@lmacri, that last one you listed (the Microsoft Graphics Component) caught my eye as a possible cause of the black screens on my Vista tower. Vista appears to start booting, but then when the gold progress bar stops running, instead of the splash screen with the Windows logo I get the black screen at that point.

I wonder if that’s the point in the process where the graphics card inside the PC kicks into gear, and for whatever reason the Vista/2008 hybrid can’t handle it. Whereas the Vista laptop, which has nothing fancier than the integrated Intel graphics, has no problem with it.

 

[lmacriAskWoody Lounger]

Cybertooth wrote:

…that last one you listed (the Microsoft Graphics Component) caught my eye as a possible cause of the black screens on my Vista tower… the Vista laptop, which has nothing fancier than the integrated Intel graphics, has no problem with it.

Hi Cybertooth:

You mentioned <here> that the problem desktop that suffers a black screen after certain Win Server 2008 patches are installed has a discrete NVIDIA graphics card. I don’t know if it’s relevant, but see the August 2018 post by a Piriform employee in the CCleaner forum thread Changes in v5.45 and Your Feedback, which states in part:

“We’ve actually been in contact with the Windows team about this. They explained that when a Windows update occurs (e.g. Spring Update), various files are held in the Windows.old folder and an automatic migration process is started. This includes items like graphics drivers, which are remain there until Windows can programmatically re-map the paths and migrate them to the correct place outside of the Windows.old folder. In this particular case, cleaning the folder of the graphics drivers would completely break rendering for some users (their screens would turn black). The average CCleaner user does not know how to reinstall a graphics driver when their screen is black, and even a more technical user would find it a pain.“

It’s possible that older Vista-compatible drivers for some NVIDIA graphics cards don’t work correctly once the Vista SP2 OS build number is changed to 6.0.6003.x (i.e., in much the same way that legacy Avast/AVG v18.x software needs an emergency “micro-update” to prevents BSODs with build 6.0.6003.x) but I also wonder if there could be some cleanup routine or migration / re-mapping of graphics drivers during certain certain Win Server 2008 updates that keeps misplacing your NVIDIA drivers.

I have an NVIDIA graphics card in my Vista SP2 machine, so you’ve given me one more reason to hesitate installing the KB4499180 patch now that I know this Win Server 2008 security update will muck up my Vista SP2 OS build number. Avast Free was supported on Win XP and Vista until January 2019 (see the Avast announcement <here>) and is still the AV of choice for many Vista SP2 users, so it’s not surprising everyone is hearing about the BSODs caused by Avast/AVG v18.x with build 6.0.6003.x.  I suspect reports of problems with other third-party software like VMware will continue to trickle in over time unless Microsoft releases a targeted patch for CVE-2019-0708 that doesn’t change the Vista SP2 build number.
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32-bit Vista Home Premium SP2 * Norton v22.15.2.22 * NVIDIA GeForce 8400M GS

1 user thanked author for this post.

Cybertooth

[CybertoothAskWoody Lounger]

Hi @lmacri, this info is indeed thought-provoking!

The first idea that comes to mind, of course, is to try removing the graphics card from the Vista tower and then install one of the alternative problem patches (KB4499149 or KB4499180) to see what happens. I’ll have to weigh this step carefully, though, as the Vista tower remains my main work PC pending the ongoing transition to Linux. And then afterward we would have to see if the PC burps again when the graphics card goes back in.

 

[GoneToPlaidAskWoody Plus]

Your PC shouldn’t burp at all, simply by removing the graphics card, doing some testing, and then reinstalling the graphics card. If you decide to test, please remember to press the PC’s power button after you have unplugged its power cord. This is necessary to drain stored voltage inside the power supply. Failure to do this potentially could damage or pop PCI power circuits on the motherboard.

[Paul TAskWoody MVP]

GoneToPlaid wrote:

Failure to do this potentially could damage or pop PCI power circuits on the motherboard

References showing where this has happened please.

cheers, Paul

1 user thanked author for this post.

satrow

[GoneToPlaidAskWoody Plus]

References? Because after unplugging computers from AC, on numerous occasions I have pressed the computer’s power switch and observed both the power supply and CPU fans spin for several seconds in order to dissipate stored residual energy WITHIN THE POWER SUPPLY. Is this not enough evidence for you? Seriously, this is something which is quite well known, and which has been documented with regards to ATX power supplies for years.

Please do continue to “bring it on” since you now seem to have a penchant for discrediting my posts.

• This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by  GoneToPlaid.

[mn–AskWoody Lounger]

… though, technically I understand it is a (very common) spec violation for the PSU to have an active voltage on anything except the +5Vsb and power switch lines after controlled power down.

It is allowed to retain charge in the internal capacitors though.

Disconnecting mains power without controlled shutdown should be avoided.

[Paul TAskWoody MVP]

I am only querying your claim of damaged motherboards. If this happens we need to know about it, not rely on your opinion.

cheers, Paul

 

1 user thanked author for this post.

satrow

[anonymous]

To back up GTP, here are some “references” you wanted.

Perform a power drain
https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/troubleshoot/lpt000352

How to discharge capacitors on a Desktop Computer
https://www.microcenter.com/tech_center/article/2859/how-to-discharge-capacitors-on-a-desktop-computer

A tool-free way to fix your computers, even some appliances: The true “cold boot”

A tool-free way to fix your computers, even some appliances: The true “cold boot”

There are more, but mainly in forums.

I have seen it fix a PC once myself.

[Paul TAskWoody MVP]

From the Micro Centre article.

Should your computer be experiencing any random problems such as hardware disappearing or malfunctioning, external devices disappearing or malfunctioning, you may want to attempt discharging capacitors as a first step in troubleshooting.

There is nothing about damaged motherboards on those pages.

cheers, Paul

[dinosaurAskWoody Lounger]

To summarize my previous comments about this: my Vista Home Premium desktop machine went BSOD when I first tried to install KB4499180. Later on, after Microsoft had specifically added Vista to the relevant notification, I downloaded KB4499180 again (having deleted the download that had failed) and also downloaded KB4493730 to install first, as per Microsoft’s advice. After that, KB4499180 installed successfully. I have had no problems since then. My anti-virus program on that machine is Avast Free.

2 users thanked author for this post.

lmacri, Cybertooth

[anonymous]

@PRB (“AVG 18”) and dinosaur (“Avast Free”): Avast has created micro-updates for compatibility with Windows build 6.0.6003. See PKCano’s link to “full post” above. I would also recommend Imacri’s link for Server 2008 Updates on Windows Vista (which however contains no reports of “general system instability” as far as I can tell).

1 user thanked author for this post.

PRB

[lmacriAskWoody Lounger]

anonymous wrote:

…I would also recommend Imacri’s link for Server 2008 Updates on Windows Vista (which however contains no reports of “general system instability” as far as I can tell).

Here’s one example in that thread from Jaguarek62’s 19-Apr-2019 post at https://msfn.org/board/topic/176686-server-2008-updates-on-windows-vista/?do=findComment&comment=1162598: “i would like to warn you about installing april updates for server 2008 on vista. My os is unstable after the april rollup. They are some changes being made to win32k which makes my vista x64 really unstable. Even build number is different now. i will keep you updated, but if you dont have to you should not install it. (kb4493458).”

When asked if they used an Avast product that same user posted <here> “In my case it was strangely due to vmware services. i disabled them and vista was stable again…”
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32-bit Vista Home Premium SP2 * Firefox ESR v52.9.0 * Norton Security v22.15.2.22

• This reply was modified 2 months, 1 week ago by  lmacri.

[anonymous]

True, Jaguarek62 is the one person who attributed the Win32k.sys BSOD to VMware, and on May 30 recommended using Virtual Box instead of VMware.

[PRBAskWoody Lounger]

anonymous wrote:

@PRB (“AVG 18”) and dinosaur (“Avast Free”): Avast has created micro-updates for compatibility with Windows build 6.0.6003.

 

Yes just to confirm that ensuring AVG18 has the update installed has fixed the problem – I didn’t even download a fresh copy of KB4499180, or pre-install KB4493730.

• This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by  PRB.

1 user thanked author for this post.

lmacri

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