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  • Are we ready for 2004?

    Posted on Susan Bradley Comment on the AskWoody Lounge

    Home Forums AskWoody blog Are we ready for 2004?

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      • #2316804
        Susan Bradley
        Manager

        ehhh…  I’m still wishy washy and thinking January might be better for the thumbs up What do you think?  I’m on 2004 myself personally, but still see
        [See the full post at: Are we ready for 2004?]

        Susan Bradley Patch Lady

        7 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2316813
        VulturEMaN
        AskWoody Lounger

        I’d personally just skip 2004 and go straight to 20H2. Even though the bases are the same, it seems some of the weirder issues are already shaken out.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2316819
        anonymous
        Guest

        Myself, I’m on 20H2 now with an HP Omen Core i7 7700HQ and 8 Gb ram (20H2 Home edition), 128 Gb SSD. I was on 2004 for nearly six months with not a single problem or issue of any kind. And the upgrade to 20H2 went smoothly and took less time than a regular cumulative monthly update, about a month or more ago. No problems so far. I wish every Fall upgrade was the same, not much different than a monthly cumulative update. And my Windows 7 programs (Microsoft Money Sunset Edition, Works 9, and GnuCash financial software) are all still working no differently than they did in Windows 7. Home user with no server network.

        • #2317052
          brian1248
          AskWoody Lounger

          I, too, am on HP Omen, but I have elected to stay on 1909 (Home) for now.  I have the 2004 feature update blocked by wushowhide, and I keep on a metered connection except when I actually do updates.

          How was the upgrade process for 2004 and 20H2?

          System Model OMEN by HP Laptop 15-dc1xxx
          Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-9750H CPU @ 2.60GHz, 2592 Mhz, 6 Core(s), 12 Logical Processor(s)
          OS Name Microsoft Windows 10 Home
          Version 10.0.18363 Build 18363
          Installed Physical Memory (RAM) 16.0 GB
          256GB SSD & 1TB Hard Drive

          • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by brian1248. Reason: added more info on build
          • #2317073
            anonymous
            Guest

            Brian1248 the upgrade from 1909 to 2004 took over three hours and required three or four reboots, despite a 24 Mb/sec. download speed over home wi-fi. But you have a newer and more powerful machine than mine, so perhaps it would be quicker on your pc. The upgrade from 2004 to 20H2 happens in just a few minutes, since it is not downloading and installing a different operating system, just activating a new set of feature options.

             

            1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #2317374
              brian1248
              AskWoody Lounger

              Thanks I updated to 2004 today.  Download took an hour, maybe a little less.  Restart took about 15 minutes with multiple restarts along the way.

              Considering 20H2.

            • #2317375
              brian1248
              AskWoody Lounger

              I noticed that after I updated to 2004 that there are over a dozen driver updates showing up in wushowhide as pending.  I have not hidden them at this point.

              Did you have to do a lot of driver updates after upgrading to 2004?

              • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by brian1248. Reason: add screenshots of pending driver updates
              Attachments:
              • #2317377
                PKCano
                Manager

                We do not recommend installing driver updates through Windows Update.
                Best to go the the computer OEM’s website for drivers, or the device OEM mfg.

              • #2317389
                brian1248
                AskWoody Lounger

                HP Support Assistant gave me several of the driver updates, some at lower version levels than was showing in Windows Update, so I will assume for those that HP has not fully vetted the ones with higher version levels.

                Windows Catalog got me the updates for Flash and .Net.

                Reviewing the rest.

                I was just surprised by the large number of suggested driver updates.  I’ve done numerous feature updates before and never seen so many suggested driver updates afterwards.  Wushowhide had less than a handful of driver updates hidden before on 1909, and I know that a feature update resets the slate and clears the list of hidden updates so that things show as available again, but in the past it was nothing close to the number of things that I see here after the 2004 update.

                • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by brian1248.
                • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by brian1248.
              • #2317414
                castiel
                AskWoody Plus

                Same here with wushowhide displaying large number of what appear to be driver updates after feature upgrade from 1909 to 2004. Many / most have dates that appear somewhat ancient.

              • #2317407
                brian1248
                AskWoody Lounger

                On the HP support site for my model, it does not have ANY drivers explicitly labeled for 2004 or 20H2.  It has numerous drivers labeled for older Window feature versions.  That, again, makes it seem odd that Windows Update (via wushowhide) seems to suggest the need for many driver updates.

                The drivers that I got through the HP Support Assistant show on the support site, but without being labeled what Windows feature version they apply to, so it looks like HP does not add that to the description until that feature version is no longer current (for the benefit of folks staying on older feature versions).

              • #2317929
                anonymous
                Guest

                Brian1248 the driver updates that version 2004 and 20H2 show behind the windows update page are not suggested driver updates, but rather only available driver updates. My experience is that you can ignore them altogether. Windows 10 will download and install driver updates without your consent when they determine that a driver update is required for the system to operate reliably.  They won’t even tell you that they have done so until after doing it.  The ones that they list as optional or available there behind the update main screen are just to let you know what other drivers will work with this version of Windows 10 in case you are having a problem and want to try a different driver to try and solve a problem.

              • #2318661
                brian1248
                AskWoody Lounger

                I keep my wifi set to metered except when actually updating, and I block everything I do not immediately want with wushowhide.  From my first Windows 10 several years ago, I have never had a driver “forced” on me without consent, because I’ve monitored it and managed it, just as I am doing now.  I’m not saying that it is impossible, just that I have never seen it happen in light of the way that I manage the list of drivers and keep the wifi on metered unless I am doing updates.

                Sometimes there are problems with wushowhide. When I see problems, I report them to Microsoft. For example, I reported a problem the other day with a driver that wushowhide could not successfully hide and which was showing under optional updates in settings.  This was a problem for several days, and I kept checking back after reporting it to see if the problem would be fixed. It happened to be fixed yesterday, and wushowhide is now able to hide it, and it no longer shows under optional updates.  I verified through device manager that the old driver is still installed (so I know that the new driver did not disappear from the update list by being “force” installed).

                In addition, up until now, whenever I saw stuff as available in wushowhide, it turned out to be drivers that were a higher version/release number, and I would usually see the same on HP’s site or through the HP support assistant (sometimes with a delay).

                Usually, after a feature upgrade, there would just be a couple to a handful of driver update suggestions, and it was easy to investigate them and determine if they should be updated.  My concern this time is that there were so many, so it would not be a simple matter to do my due diligence with them.

                By now, I have verified that many of the ones being offered now are in fact newer versions (with a few exceptions that had earlier versions/older dates), but I have blocked them until I can see what the changes are, and to see if there are any potential issues related to the drivers.  I like to research them individually before applying them, and I prefer to get them from HP’s site, if they are available there.  Some of the newer versions are not yet available from HP.  For now, those newer versions are blocked.

                Some others were available from HP, and they have been updated.

                This includes the following 3 drivers (a number which is in line with past experience).

                Updates done and verified through HP Support Assistant after 2004 update:

                1) Intel Rapid Storage Technology Driver softpaq sp105439 version 17.9.0.1007 size 21.21MB
                prior version 17.5.2.1024

                2) Realtek High-Definition (HD) Audio Driver softpaq sp105441 version 6.0.8950.1 size 41.98MB
                prior version 6.0.8717.1
                (after the update, Windows is offering a newer version 6.0.9018.1, which is not yet available from HP. I have blocked it.)

                3) Synaptics TouchPad Driver softpaq sp105596 version 19.5.35.54 size 23.5MB
                prior version 19.5.35.47
                (after the update, Windows is still offering 19.5.35.54 same as the HP version, as well as 19.5.35.61 which is not yet available from HP. Both are blocked, to prevent overlaying the version updated from HP.)

                Related to the ones that are exceptions (drivers with lower versions/older dates), I saw an article on a German site that said that there were recently reported problems with older versions being offered, so my experience was not unique.

                Some reports were genuine, but some were false alarms.  This was due to the fact that Intel offers certain chipset drivers with a date of 7/18/1968.

                One of those drivers happened to be the driver that wushowhide was having trouble with (Intel 10.1.16.7:Intel(R) 300 Series Chipset Family) and which is now fixed and able to be hidden.

                The Readme for it says the following:

                “Note: Intel(R) Chipset Device Software uses an unusual date for the devices it is targeting. The date 07/18/1968 is symbolic – Intel was founded that day. The reason this date is used is to lower the rank of Intel(R) Chipset Device Software. This is necessary because it’s a supporting utility that should not overwrite any other drivers. Updating Intel(R) Chipset Device Software is not needed – do not worry if you don’t have the latest version. ”

                In my research, it appears to be benign, and as the Readme says, you don’t have to worry about having the latest version.  It also appears on the HP site, if I should ever wish to update it, but am I waiting for now and it is now successfully blocked in wushowhide.

                • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by brian1248. Reason: typos
      • #2316825
        geekdom
        AskWoody Plus

        I have 2004 on a relatively generic, non-brand computer system using Windows Defender, not third-party anti-virus software. I also have a Conan, err, Canon printer that works without problems.

        What I’m not ready for is 2021, the year.

         

        Beta Work {Got backup and coffee}
        offline▸ Win10Pro 2004.19041.572 x64 i3-3220 RAM8GB HDD Firefox83.0b3 WindowsDefender TRV=1909 WuMgr
        offline▸ Win10Pro 20H2.19042.685 x86 Atom N270 RAM2GB HDD WindowsDefender WuMgr GuineaPigVariant
        online▸ Win10Pro 2004.19041.746 x64 i5-9400 RAM16GB HDD Firefox85.0 WindowsDefender TRV=2004 WuMgr
      • #2316828
        CBA
        AskWoody Plus
      • #2316837
        Berserker79
        AskWoody Lounger

        Sticking to 1909 for the time being, besides I moved to 1909 from 1809 no more than a couple months ago, so I don’t want to go through the stress of another Feature Update too soon. Assuming 20H2 is green-lighted at the same time as 2004 or shortly thereafter, once 1909 is one month from EOL I’d like to move directly to 20H2.

        More generally, I find twice-yearly feature releases annoying and cumbersome, most of the time we get more hassles than benefits (at least that’s my impression as an “average user”). Considering we have the monthly patching to contend with (which is at least supposed to fix security issues among various things), I’d be more than happy if MS re-thinks the feature releases to have a once-yearly scheme.

        3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2316839
        dgc-art
        AskWoody Plus

        I recently went from 1909 to 2004 on a fairly old HP TouchSmart520 desktop PC with Windows 10 Pro. No further issues now but the installation took around four and a half hours which I was not expecting and it initially messed up Windows Search once installed. I had to reindex which took around 3 days for 9,600 files – which I could have done well without. 2004 has no features that I want or need as it turns out so the whole exercise was a waste of my time and effort. That being said, the boot up time is considerably faster and shutdown is a little faster and the PC is working very well for no further issues to report.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2316841
        Seff
        AskWoody Plus

        I did the usual monthly updates on my 1909 Home edition desktop yesterday without any apparent issues, at the end of which instead of being offered the option of 2004 I’m now being offered 20H2.

        The only odd thing about the updating was that on the restart it displayed a different splash screen (as I recall a blue landscape as against a sandy beach scene) which made me think it might have forced 2004 although that was unlikely as the whole thing took less than half an hour, and sure enough when I checked the build I was still on 1909. Subsequent boot-ups have displayed the original splash screen.

        I shall watch the ongoing discussions about both 2004 and 20H2 with interest!

      • #2316884
        anonymous
        Guest

        Windows Home 1909. Had 2004 hidden in WUshowhide. Microsoft installed it anyway.

        • #2316953
          EP
          AskWoody_MVP

          maybe MS offered an updated/revised 2004 version and you forgot to “hide” the newly revised ones.
          also did you hide all versions of KB4023057 with Wushowhide?

      • #2316906
        Alex5723
        AskWoody Plus

        I upgraded to 2004 on 31-‎Oct-‎20 and jumped to 20H2 on ‎03-‎Nov-‎20.
        No problems with Lenovo Y530 and Kaspersky A/V (disabled during the upgrades).

      • #2316930
        bbearren
        AskWoody MVP

        Both sides of my dual boot, my NAS and my Dell Latitude E5420 laptop have been on 2004 since it was released; I upgraded with the MCT Thumb Drive as soon as it was made available.

        I haven’t had any issues of any kind. I got rid of Libraries, Special Folders and Quick Access as soon as they were introduced, and continue to do so with registry editing (I simply import a couple of .reg files) because I neither need nor want them.

        The A side of my dual boot has been running 20H2 since it was made available, my laptop as well and both are without issue as well. I’m holding off on my NAS waiting for the push, but I’ll jump ahead with the MCT Thumb Drive if the push doesn’t happen soon.

        I’ve not experienced any of the issues warned about on any of the techy sites, no instability, just good, steady, fast and reliable performance with nothing withheld except for driver updates via Group Policy.

        Create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates, in case you need to start over!
        "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns
        "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware

        3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #2316940
          RTEsysadmin
          AskWoody Plus

          Without unpaid beta testers, the rest of us would have to take those risks, ourselves. Thank you for your service. I mean that sincerely.

          Group K(ill me now)
      • #2316936
        RTEsysadmin
        AskWoody Plus

        In your article “On the future of Windows 10 feature releases“, you spoke about users being “stuck” on 1909. Personally, I don’t feel stuck at all.

        I have deliberately kept our users on 1909. None of them feel “stuck”, either. 1909 is stable and predictable. I don’t take risks on the spring releases, anyway, since it appears that the fall releases are simply service packs that have most of the bugs worked out. But I still won’t take them until they’ve been out for at least a year. We’re on a 365-day cycle that, itself, is delayed, and everything works.

        I’ve never thought of our users as guinea pigs, and I don’t think Microsoft should, either. Besides, no one I know cares in the least about any of the new trinkets that Microsoft thinks is worth re-installing an entire operating system for.

        Of course, if Microsoft ever returned to us the control of UI colors and metrics that they took away in Windows 10, everyone would demand that feature update immediately, and I’d have to buckle. But Microsoft doesn’t listen to users, so I’m probably safe.

        Group K(ill me now)
        • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by RTEsysadmin.
        • #2316952
          EP
          AskWoody_MVP

          you’re safe until around May 2021, when the Home & Pro versions of Win10 v1909 go EOL at that time

          2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #2317204
            RTEsysadmin
            AskWoody Plus

            I keep a close eye on the calendar. By May, hopefully, 20H2 will be as reliable as 1909 has been.

            Group K(ill me now)
            • #2317668
              anonymous
              Guest

              Same here. I’ll wait March or April to install 2004 before May 🙂 I’ll have to choose a day to install it so it isn’t on a work day like on a Wednesday night or thursday.

      • #2316957
        anonymous
        Guest

        I manage only 10 PCs, but all of those are on 1809 LTSC and will remain there for as long as possible.. There is nothing in 1903 or later that is compelling enough to move to any later version. I can also remove bloat and it stays removed, whereas from 1903 onward each CU restores the bloat.

        As for twice yearly feature updates – These things are released at what feels like a pre-alpha stage. The general community is not a good testing framework. The blocks are a joke. Waiting for the next feature release before installing the previous one seems a reasonable idea.

        But may people are their own worst enemy. Why do they need to have “The aboslute latest” of everything? Bleeding edge is dangerous. Rushing out and installing this the second it is released then complaining it doesn’t work is just silly.

      • #2316965
        anonymous
        Guest

        I think it’s high time for Microsoft to stop with the features, and to spend some months tightening up the security of the Windows OS.

      • #2317054
        NaNoNyMouse
        AskWoody Lounger

        I’m on 20H2 now on both laptop and desktop, and I was on 2004 before that. No major issues to report for either release, just the usual minor niggles, mostly too trivial to make it worth reverting to earlier versions

        I can understand those who want to have a stable, reliable, predictable OS to work with, but my own strategy is to wait a while to see if I’m likely to get hit by any showstoppers, and, if it doesn’t look as if I am, upgrade as soon as seems reasonable. In many ways I feel that’s going to make it less likely that I’ll be hit by unexpected system behaviours, because my system will more closely resemble the one that MS do their limited testing on before releasing new stuff into the wild

        (I’m assuming that they do some testing, even if it’s just a teeny tiny little bit…)

        • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by NaNoNyMouse.
      • #2317060
        Alex5723
        AskWoody Plus

        How was the upgrade process for 2004 and 20H2?

        The update from 2004 to 20H2 is short (like a regular monthly updates, not like a release update).
        2004 and 20H2 get exactly the same monthly updates (much like 1903 – 1909).

      • #2317087
        anonymous
        Guest

        Microsoft needs to make these “feature upgrades” more evident that they’re more major and not one of the regular monthly patches. I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again: Microsoft should increment the Windows version number in that case, like Windows 10.1, Windows 10.2, etc., rather than making everything “Windows 10” and then confusingly adding “Version <something something>” while still touting that Windows 10 is the “last version of Windows”.

        I do applaud companies for not being like everyone else, but in some circumstances, being different just confuses customers. In this case, Microsoft should just do what everyone else does and increment the major version number of Windows so that users can more easily report that version of Windows 10 they’re running, rather than just “Windows 10” which frustrates me when trying to troubleshoot software issues that exists on one version of Windows 10 but not others.

      • #2317107
        weedacres
        AskWoody Plus

        I have 5 Win 10 Pro PC’s at the house that I’ve updated from 1909 over the last month. They all run well and I was planning on starting my business updates to 2004 in January.

        Yesterday I was checking the Windows/Application Event logs and ran across a large number of ESENT event 642’s going back to the date that I did the 2004 upgrade:

        svchost (3384,D,46) SRUJet: The database format feature version 9180 (0x23dc) could not be used due to the current database format 1568.20.0, controlled by the parameter 0x410022D8 (8920 | JET_efvAllowHigherPersistedFormat).

        I checked the other PC’s that I had upgraded and all have the same warning back to the 2004 upgrade date. Google shows many others with the same issue with no apparent solution other than going back to 1909. I’ve seen no response from MS on this either.

        I have no idea what the message really means or what it’s impact is, other than no apparent operational impact on my systems.

        Dave

        • #2317115
          anonymous
          Guest

          I have the ESENT messages in my event viewer as well on version 20H2. After every cumulative update there are hundreds of them; but they then reduce to just two each boot after that until the next cumulative update. These are warnings, not errors, and seem to be “harmless” as I have not found where they have an effect on anything I’m ever doing. I usually just ignore event viewer warnings and only worry about the errors, especially in Windows 10 where I am using an administrator log on with no password and no Microsoft account (Windows 10 doesn’t seem to enjoy that).

      • #2317121
        weedacres
        AskWoody Plus

        I have the ESENT messages in my event viewer as well on version 20H2. After every cumulative update there are hundreds of them; but they then reduce to just two each boot after that until the next cumulative update. These are warnings, not errors, and seem to be “harmless” as I have not found where they have an effect on anything I’m ever doing. I usually just ignore event viewer warnings and only worry about the errors, especially in Windows 10 where I am using an administrator log on with no password and no Microsoft account (Windows 10 doesn’t seem to enjoy that).

        I agree, I don’t normally pay a lot of attention to Application Warnings either.

        I checked 2 1909 machines and don’t see this warning at all, so it appears to have started with 2004. I’ve yet to decide if it will effect my decision of when I’ll update my business machines from 1909 to 2004.

      • #2317120
        anonymous
        Guest

        Switched to 2004 a month ago and windows backup no longer works.  None of the several online solutions have worked to fix it and I would rather fix it than using 3rd party software.  Remember this happening before when installing v1803.  When I updated to v1809 it fixed the problem.  I have error 0x81000019 every time like before. Ran SFC and DISM as well.  When all is working well, I just wish Microsoft would stop fixing their broken Win10 with patches that mess things up.  Any ideas on how to fix this problem?

        • #2317127
          PKCano
          Manager

          The problem you are having with windows backup may be related to the VSS and SPP Services. There is information here that might help. Both give basically the same remedy.

          https://www.partitionwizard.com/partitionmanager/0x81000019.html

          https://www.thewindowsclub.com/a-shadow-copy-could-not-be-created

        • #2317538
          Noel Carboni
          AskWoody_MVP

          What were you using Windows Backup for? Making a regular System Image backup?

          You could always run a wbadmin command yourself. That definitely still works in v2004… I have scheduled a job that updates a system image every night. The batch file I use is:


          :: Initiates a System Image backup
          @ECHO OFF
          ECHO ================================================================================================================================================================
          ECHO.
          Showtime Starting Nightly drive C: System Image backup on %%s
          wbadmin start backup -allCritical -vssFull -quiet -backupTarget:E:
          Showtime Completing Nightly drive C: System Image backup on %%s
          ECHO.
          :END_OF_PROCEDURE

          Via the scheduler I pipe the output to a file. This is the output that I got there with this morning’s backup:


          ================================================================================================================================================================

          Starting Nightly drive C: System Image backup on Sunday, December 06, 2020, 02:00:01

          wbadmin 1.0 – Backup command-line tool

          (C) Copyright Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

          Retrieving volume information…
          This will back up System Reserved (549.00 MB),C – NoelC5(C:),(\\?\Volume{df9fbdb4-0000-0000-0000-c0bfdc010000}\) to E:.
          The backup operation to E: is starting.
          Creating a shadow copy of the volumes specified for backup…
          Creating a shadow copy of the volumes specified for backup…
          Creating a shadow copy of the volumes specified for backup…
          The backup of volume System Reserved (549.00 MB) completed successfully.
          Creating a backup of volume C – NoelC5(C:), copied (0%).
          Creating a backup of volume C – NoelC5(C:), copied (81%).
          Creating a backup of volume C – NoelC5(C:), copied (89%).
          Creating a backup of volume C – NoelC5(C:), copied (89%).
          Creating a backup of volume C – NoelC5(C:), copied (89%).
          Creating a backup of volume C – NoelC5(C:), copied (89%).
          Creating a backup of volume C – NoelC5(C:), copied (89%).
          Creating a backup of volume C – NoelC5(C:), copied (89%).
          Creating a backup of volume C – NoelC5(C:), copied (89%).
          Creating a backup of volume C – NoelC5(C:), copied (89%).
          Creating a backup of volume C – NoelC5(C:), copied (89%).
          Creating a backup of volume C – NoelC5(C:), copied (89%).
          Creating a backup of volume C – NoelC5(C:), copied (89%).
          Creating a backup of volume C – NoelC5(C:), copied (89%).
          Creating a backup of volume C – NoelC5(C:), copied (89%).
          Creating a backup of volume C – NoelC5(C:), copied (89%).
          Creating a backup of volume C – NoelC5(C:), copied (89%).
          Creating a backup of volume C – NoelC5(C:), copied (89%).
          Creating a backup of volume C – NoelC5(C:), copied (89%).
          Creating a backup of volume C – NoelC5(C:), copied (89%).
          Creating a backup of volume C – NoelC5(C:), copied (89%).
          Creating a backup of volume C – NoelC5(C:), copied (89%).
          Creating a backup of volume C – NoelC5(C:), copied (89%).
          Creating a backup of volume C – NoelC5(C:), copied (99%).
          The backup of volume C – NoelC5(C:) completed successfully.
          The backup of volume (513.00 MB) completed successfully.
          Summary of the backup operation:
          ——————

          The backup operation successfully completed.
          The backup of volume System Reserved (549.00 MB) completed successfully.
          The backup of volume C – NoelC5(C:) completed successfully.
          The backup of volume (513.00 MB) completed successfully.
          Log of files successfully backed up:
          C:\WINDOWS\Logs\WindowsBackup\Backup-06-12-2020_07-00-18.log

          Completing Nightly drive C: System Image backup on Sunday, December 06, 2020, 02:05:12

          -Noel

      • #2317145
        anonymous
        Guest

        @PKCano:

        Thanks very much for the links, had already tried those solutions.  Scrubbed the internet looking for a solution.   Am using external HDDs for backups and even tried a brand new HDD and still get the same issue.  Windows backup has always been so reliable in the past.  In the end everyone wants you to use 3rd party software to make backups.  I am just not satisfied with that knowing that I am using a defective operating system.  I am sure Microsoft knows exactly the problem and are not saying.  Maybe when I move 20H2 it will fix it like it did  with 1803 to 1809.  I also know from experience that hope is for fools.  This is  so disappointing.

        • #2317244
          Paul T
          AskWoody MVP

          Any backup is better than no backup.
          Swallow your pride and go 3rd party free, you will sleep better knowing you have a good backup.

          cheers, Paul

      • #2317233
        anonymous
        Guest

        I am stay with my Windows Xp. Is is safer and has less telemery/spyware from MS. Plus have better control of it. Have not gotten a hacks, virus, ransomware yet in its lifetime…… Xp forever…… Using kernelex for Xp to get some newer browser and programs to work. Thanks the community for supporting it.

      • #2317245
        Paul T
        AskWoody MVP

        I am stay with my Windows Xp. Is is safer

        How do you know it’s safer? Can you point us to articles where this is shown to be the case? (Saying you have not been hacked is not evidence of security – lack of evidence is not evidence of lack of a thing.)

        cheers, Paul

      • #2317303
        Noel Carboni
        AskWoody_MVP

        I’ve been on 2004 for some time on my heavy use 4 monitor professional software development workstation and also several test systems. v2004’s more bloated and less amenable to tuning than its predecessors, but seems quite stable. I have not yet moved to 20H2, though have been thinking about doing so soon.

        Given that my job in Quality Engineering is to try to break things on purpose, I’d say 2004’s pretty reliable actually, with corporate networking and communications tools (e.g., Bluejeans teleconferencing, Slack messaging, etc.) being the ones that make the occasional red marks.

        ScreenGrab_NoelC5_2020_12_05_124600

        -Noel

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        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2317314
        The Surfing Pensioner
        AskWoody Plus

        I updated my W10 Home laptop today and it started downloading 2004 straight away! I didn’t have KB4023057 installed, in fact I’ve just uninstalled it again. I hadn’t wanted to employ too many shenanigans to avoid this feature update because it has to happen sometime and I thought, Oh well, may as well get it over with now. It installed no problem (together with the other bits and bobs) in 1.5 hours. I now have the Meet Now icon in my task bar but I’m quite happy with than because I’ve been doing a lot of skype and it will come in handy. So far, no problems, but I haven’t had time to explore all the new features – or wrestle with any lingering issues – yet. If I get on with it all right, I’ll install 2004 on my desktop W10 Pro come January (currently set to 1909 by Group Policy).

      • #2317337
        marklang
        AskWoody Plus

        I switched to 2004 in November.  I was on 1903, and had to do something — and at that time Susan was saying 2004 is OK.   I wish I had not made the upgrade.  I started seeing a problem with remembering credentials on one of my NAS drives immediately that I have not been able to resolve after much effort and many tries.  Only then did I see the information that others were having similar problems.  Fortunately, my credentials problem only affects the one NAS drive, so I can live with the consequences.  However, it is disheartening when Microsoft cannot get the major bugs out of a feature release before the next one comes up.

      • #2317502
        blueboy714
        AskWoody Plus

        I have Windows 10 Home – I wish MS gave us the option of installing 2004, but we can’t since they released 20H2. It would be nice if they got the the major and moderate bugs out of one update before releasing another.

        • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by blueboy714.
        • #2317636
          Alex5723
          AskWoody Plus

          You can install 2004 via windows update if you create a registry key for TVR set to 2004.

          Comments on AKB 2000016: Guide for Windows Update Settings for Windows 10

          • #2317837
            Ken
            AskWoody Plus

            Alex5723: you said “You can install 2004 via windows update if you create a registry key for TVR set to 2004.”. Can you explain in more details, please? I could not find the details in the comments on AKB 2000016. My W10 Home machine has been offered 20H2, not 2004. My W10 Pro has not been offered 2004. I think they both may have the Conexant problem? How do I find out?

            • #2317840
              PKCano
              Manager

              The details for Home Edition are in Section 2 of AKB2000016. There are two Registry entries that need to be made manually or through the Command Prompt.  The commands to do so can be copy/pasted into the Command line.

              TRV is TargetReleaseVersion.

            • #2318083
              EP
              AskWoody_MVP

              @Ken

              -for checking the Conexant audio driver version:

              open Device Manager (devmgmt.msc), expand the Sound, video and game controllers section and check if you have something like “Conexant Smartaudio HD” or “Conexant Audio” and click on the Driver tab of the Conexant audio driver properties and look at the Driver version.

              only some versions of Conexant audio drivers are blocked and prevent the 2004/20H2 feature update from being offered thru WU. exceptions are very old and/or very recent/new driver versions which should allow updating to 2004 or higher. HP and Lenovo have already issued new versions of Synaptics/Conexant audio drivers for some of their systems that are compatible with 2004/20H2 from their respective support sites.

              • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by EP.
              • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by EP.
              1 user thanked author for this post.
              Ken
              • #2318248
                Ken
                AskWoody Plus

                Yes, my Lenovo W10 Pro laptop has this, version 8.66.76.61. I clicked “update driver” but none available.  When clicking “update driver” on any of the devices listed in device manager, does this request go to Microsoft or to the driver manufacturer or to the pc manufacturer?

              • #2318679
                Ken
                AskWoody Plus

                On my Lenovo W10 Home version 1909 I have hidden four Realtek updates and one Intel update. I clicked “update system” on Lenovo website but it only came up with BIOS update. Since these updates are hidden from MS, does Lenovo not update them either? Realtek website is all in Chinese so could not look for them. Intel website could not identify update from info taken from MS update request. What to do? Just go ahead and update these through MS?

        • #2317921
          brian1248
          AskWoody Lounger

          I’m on Home and updated to 2004 on December 5th, as I commented above.  20H2 was listed as optional prior to that.

          After the 2004 update, 20H2 is no longer offered (either as optional or otherwise).  I did a number of so-called “seeks” to expeditiously get some other needed updates that I released from wushowhide, but 20H2 was not among them, and performing a “seek” did not cause it to download.  Winver now shows me on 2004 build 19041.630.

          I had previously had the 2004 feature update blocked in wushowhide.  I just released it, and down it came.  No registry tweaks.  However, if others recommend the registry tweak as a better way to go, then do it.

          I should add that, except for when I am actively updating, I have my connection set as metered, which prevents unexpected updates.

          • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by brian1248. Reason: add note on metered connection
      • #2317842
        blueboy714
        AskWoody Plus

        Alex5723: you said “You can install 2004 via windows update if you create a registry key for TVR set to 2004.”. Can you explain in more details, please? I could not find the details in the comments on AKB 2000016. My W10 Home machine has been offered 20H2, not 2004. My W10 Pro has not been offered 2004. I think they both may have the Conexant problem? How do I find out?

        Good – I’m not the only one that was totally lost by Alex5723 TRV comment.  I hate messing around with the registry but so be it.

      • #2317886
        WSgapch12
        AskWoody Plus

        Personally I have updated to 20H2, os build 19042.662.  My desktop computer is working perfectly so far.  I have no complaints.

      • #2317892
        rebop2020
        AskWoody Plus

        Seems the right place for this, but long. Let me know or move if you prefer a new topic.

        I could REALLY use some clarity. Been here a week or ten days (I particularly to learn about the real information behind Windows 10 Updates) and read a ton. But still confused on updating.

        I was (accurately) afraid that the hidden in wushowhide update to 2004 would go away. It did yesterday morning when the Feature Update to 20H2 appeared. I hid the feature update to 20H2. I no longer have the update to 2004 listed. And feature updates do not appear as an Option in the Windows Update applet. There are no “optionals”. One list even if there are more than one update offered of any variety.

        Today, a Notification I need some updates and 20H2 was there again. I checked and it still shows as hidden in wushowhide? This is a first for me. Has me very confused.

        I am on 1909. Let’s note a few things:

        1. I had only 3 things hidden in wushowhide:
        Feature Update 20H2
        the kb4023057
        the 2006 Printer driver – that will not install anyway
        Today a Lenovo Monitor driver appeared in wushowhide to be hidden and I did. I am   set  in GP so no drivers are to be downloaded. It did not appear in the Update Applet

        2. EVERY time Windows Update or wushowhide runs it produces a small error cab in Elevated Diagnostics. It never did this until about a month ago. I’d like to know what changed and why! But not as important as what is going on and what to do about 20H2 (or 2004 for that matter).

        3. I have GPedit set to delay CU for 7 days (while I research) and Feature for 45 days. I do NOT have the option in GPedit to set the Target Release Version under business even though I am on Pro.

        4. EVERY previous feature update has changed between 20 and 60 things I have configured on my system from:
        Resetting the Recycle Bin Icon
        Adds “shortcut” again to desktop shortcuts
        Changes Explorer window – Column Sizes
        Removed MaxCachedIcons DWORD in Registry again
        Reset my disabling of the touch screen
        Added Screen Snip to Quick Actions
        Disabled System Restore
        Changed Core Temp to run maximized on startup
        Changed Mapped Network Drives!
        etc.

        I am willing to learn some new features. Perhaps willing to go through my checklist of 60 some odd items that might get changed from my desired settings. But baffled what to be doing and when in relation to 2004 and/or 20H2. I’d be happy to keep postponing both, but will click and wince if that is the better path now. An OS should not be this angst producing!

        So…
        What are the recommended settings for GPedit Update delays?
        Should I grab 2004 now (if I can)? If not avoid and wait until all clear on 20H2?
        What other settings relating to Updates should I consider?
        Why do I seem to be different than most (or even all) with Elevated Diagnostics and no Optional Updates?

        I simply do not know any longer how to keep a functional OS on my Win 10 computer without hassle.

        Thanks.

        • #2317931
          PKCano
          Manager

          AKB2000016 guide for Windows Update Settings for Win10  has information on WU settings for 2004 using GP (deferrals) and TargetReleaseVersion. If you don’t have the TRV settings under Windows UPdate for Business in GP, there is a manual way to set it in the Registry described in Section 2 (for Home). There are also screenshots below the text to show you where the settings are.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          Ken
          • #2317973
            Susan Bradley
            Manager

            Follow what @pkcano says for sure.  The targetreleaseversion in particular keeps you on 1909 by specifying that in the settings.  Your machine won’t be offered up either one (2004 or 20H2) if you have that setting in place.

            Susan Bradley Patch Lady

            1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2318065
        bbearren
        AskWoody MVP

        After I had upgraded the A side of my dual boot using the MCT USB thumb drive, I rebooted into the B side to give it a go there.  The B side is much more customized than my A side; the Users folder is completely (registry edits included) relocated to a separate partition of a different SSD, and various other changes that make the installation unsupported by Microsoft.

        I wasn’t expecting the in-place upgrade to work, and indeed, I was only offered a clean install, wiping away all my customizations, which I rejected, and the B side remained 2004.

        However, today was different.  I rebooted into the B side so that Windows Updates can get caught up, and was offered the 20H2 Feature Update, as well as a couple of 2004 updates.  The 2004 updates installed and were awaiting restart, and I clicked on “Download and install” for the 20H2 Feature Update, expecting it to back out at some point.

        It did not back out.  It installed in this very customized environment without issue, and quite quickly, so I’m now running Windows 10 Pro Version 20H2 (OS Build 19042-630) on both sides of my dual boot.

        Create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates, in case you need to start over!
        "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns
        "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2318169
        wavy
        AskWoody Plus

        I wonder if at this time on 1909 with 20H2 out would 2004 set in targetreleaseversion allow windows update update to 2004 or would 20h2 be forced?

        🍻

        Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.
        • #2318174
          PKCano
          Manager

          TargetReleaseVersion = 2004 should allow you to upgrade to v2004 through Windows Update.  Be sure you have the “2” (notify download/install) also set in GP so it doesn’t download automatically. And be sure there is nothing else showing in the WU queue when you do download.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2318176
        rebop2020
        AskWoody Plus

        rebop

        Thanks. Is that then forever? And is that something one should do? Or is it better to defer for a year? And can that even be done if I have already set delays and hidden feature updates?

        So frustrating. And as I mentioned, compounded as it seems I am not like most other users with what I see even though  I updated all through 1909.

        • #2318177
          PKCano
          Manager

          This is what the MS pages say:

          I want to stay on a specific version

          If you need a device to stay on a version beyond the point when deferrals on the next version would elapse or if you need to skip a version (for example, update fall release to fall release) use the Select the target Feature Update version setting instead of using the Specify when Preview Builds and Feature Updates are received setting for feature update deferrals. When you use this policy, specify the version that you want your device(s) to use. If you don’t update this before the device reaches end of service, the device will automatically be updated once it is 60 days past end of service for its edition.

          When you set the target version policy, if you specify a feature update version that is older than your current version or set a value that isn’t valid, the device will not receive any feature updates until the policy is updated. When you specify target version policy, feature update deferrals will not be in effect.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #2318345
            rebop2020
            AskWoody Plus

            Just getting to these replies. Thanks all. Will read and post a bit more at the end of the thread as I continue to read and learn more.

        • #2318180
          Susan Bradley
          Manager

          I used to recommend deferring for 365 days but there can be weird stuff that occurs when you get to the year anniversary of releases of feature releases so I’m no longer a fan of this setting.

          Now I recommend using the targeted version setting.  I wouldn’t recommend a machine you care about on 20H2.  I’m close to giving the all clear on 2004 for the general masses, for a benchmark I have it running at the office with no issues. (When I run the office on version fill in the blank it’s pretty rock solid).   For sure you need to be off or nearly off 1903 and on to 1909.

          The only reason I’m not giving it an all clear at this time is because Microsoft still has a gate on it for certain computers with audio cards – i.e. Conexant.

          I’ll ultimately be telling you in May to move off of 1909.

           

          Bottom line:  20h2  not quite baked yet

          2004:  Baked for most, still some lingering issues but for nearly all it’s solid.

          1909:  Baked for all and unless you are on LTSB it’s where you should be at right now.

           

          Does that help?

          Susan Bradley Patch Lady

          1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2318282
        Alex5723
        AskWoody Plus

        does this request go to Microsoft or to the driver manufacturer or to the pc manufacturer?

        The request goes to Microsoft.

      • #2318350
        rebop2020
        AskWoody Plus

        Thanks again for bearing with me while I learn new tricks 🙂

        OK, let’s assume I wish to use Target Release Version from Regedit to stay on 1909 for now as it is not in my GP settings.

        Do I set that first?

        Or do I first change the 7 day CU and 45 day Feature delays I have set in GP?

        Do I do anything to wushowhide which now has hidden the 2004 Feature Update?

        Should I do anything else or anything in a different order than above?

        The goal is to stay on 1909 until you say 2004 is 95% safe or better. Then stay there until the same for 20H2. And onward. So I assume when the all clear sounds, I simply change the 1909 in the registry value to 2004, yes?

        I am oping after this Win 10 starts to respect my setting to not offer drivers. Still getting some to hide even though I have the proper setting enabled in set in GP.

        Also: Would love pointers to where to learn more about the ElevatedDiagnostics from wushowhide and Windows Updates that no one else seems to have. Googling doesn;t seem to find much and not a lot of replies here.

        ~Bob

         

         

        • #2318355
          PKCano
          Manager

          Be sure you have GP setting under Windows Update set to “2” (notify download/install).
          Set TRV to 1909 first. Verify the setting is there.
          Then set Quality deferrals = 0 and Feature deferrals = 0 (because if you set TRV, they will be ignored anyway)

          When you are ready to upgrade to 2004, you change the 1909 in TRV to 2004.
          Once you upgrade to 2004, you will have to revisit the settings because MS changed where they are in 2004.

          Setting TRV shouldn’t affect wushowhide.

      • #2318454
        bbearren
        AskWoody MVP

        My NAS (a PC with a RAID 10 Array in a midtower case) has been running Windows 10 Pro 2004 since it was released.  As I have posted elsewhere in this thread, I upgraded my daily driver desktop PC to 20H2 with the MCT USB thumb drive as soon as 20H2 was released, and have been waiting for the push from Microsoft on my NAS and the B side of my daily driver dual boot.

        As I explained in the linked post, on December 8 I rebooted into the B side of my dual boot to get caught up on Windows Updates, was offered 20H2 (details in that post) and got it downloaded and installed without incident.

        Yesterday I RDC’d into my NAS to check for updates, and it had also received the push from Microsoft for 20H2, which I downloaded and installed without incident.  Apparently,

        KB4592438 Cumulative Update for Windows 10 Version 20H2 for x64-based Systems

        had been included in the latest issue of 20H2 Feature Update, since I’m now running Windows 10 Pro Version 20H2 (OS Build 19042.685) on both sides of my daily driver and my NAS, but in “Installed updates” for my NAS it doesn’t show KB4592438.

        Everything is running smoothly, no hiccups.

        Create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates, in case you need to start over!
        "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns
        "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware

        • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by bbearren.
      • #2318538
        hosea49
        AskWoody Lounger

        My Dell pc continues to try to install: 2020-12 Cumulative Update for Windows 10 Version 20H2 for x64-based Systems (KB4592438).  But it does not happen.  Is there a way of stopping it or uninstalling? Each time I start my laptop, it checks for updates, finds the one listed here downloads and proceeds to install, it fails to install and tell me to “Try again”.  I now have Security Intelligence Update for Microsoft Defender Antivirus – KB2267602 (Version 1.329.160.0) waiting to install.

        Help, please.

        Hosea

        • #2318571
          PKCano
          Manager

          Do you have Home Edition or Pro Edition?
          One way to stop the install loop is to click on “Pause” in the Settings App in Windows Update. Each time you click “Pause” if stops updates for 7 days. You can click up to 5 times for a maximum of 35 days.

      • #2318553
        rebop2020
        AskWoody Plus

        Be sure you have GP setting under Windows Update set to “2” (notify download/install).
        Set TRV to 1909 first. Verify the setting is there.
        Then set Quality deferrals = 0 and Feature deferrals = 0 (because if you set TRV, they will be ignored anyway)

        When you are ready to upgrade to 2004, you change the 1909 in TRV to 2004.
        Once you upgrade to 2004, you will have to revisit the settings because MS changed where they are in 2004.

        Setting TRV shouldn’t affect wushowhide.

        Thanks. Three questions 🙂

        1. Since I do not have the TRV in GP, I will be creating it in the registry. What more can I do to “verify it is there”?
        2. Why would I want to change Quality deferrals to “0”? Would I not want those and aren’t a few days valuable to see what people report breaks?
        3. Where were things moved to in 2004?

        Thanks again.

        • #2318557
          PKCano
          Manager

          The answers to all your questions are in AKB2000016. There are even screenshots at the bottom to show where the settings are.

        • #2318572
          rebop2020
          AskWoody Plus

          OK, reread it again.

           

          I think I will keep Quality updates at 7 days. I don’t need to know day one and like to read others experiences first. Feature to 0 as this takes its place.

           

          • #2318710
            WCHS
            AskWoody Plus

            I think I will keep Quality updates at 7 days. I don’t need to know day one and like to read others experiences first.

            You are in 1909, right? You can forget about PAUSE and instead, set the Quality Update deferral=0 and use wushowhide to hide them for as long as you want, giving you plenty of reading time. (For me, they stay hidden until MS-DEFCON=3+, i.e., until they have been thoroughly vetted.) They will appear in wushowhide to hide shortly after they are released on Patch Tuesday on the West Coast (for me on EST, this is around 1 pm). They stay hidden until you unhide them, at which time they will appear in the WU queue, after the queue is refreshed. If you want to have even greater control over downloading and installing (i.e. even more reading time), set GP=2 for notify download/install (or the equivalent registry setting, if you are 1909, Home). Then, you will get a ‘download’ button to click on, when you are ready to download and install.

            All of this is in AKB2000016.

            • #2318734
              rebop2020
              AskWoody Plus

              Yes 1909 Pro.

              Seems 6 to 1 to me how long I set the Quality delay. If I hide them day one before I read, I have to go back and unhide. If I delay a week, I might read and find out some I want right there and then. Just seems more convenient to me.

              I have had GP=2 for notify download/install nearly forever 🙂

              We agree on Feature Updates now that I understand TRV.

      • #2318556
        rebop2020
        AskWoody Plus

        And one more more general question:

        When you folks say installed without incident or without hiccup, is that really true? I have not yet had a feature update that did not re-add “shortcut” to desktop shortcuts, or change my custom recycle bin icon, or re-enable telemetry for M’soft or NVIDIA, or change my Explorer column widths, or disable System Restore,  or….

        Am I just the unlucky one or do not people check for these changes after a feature update?

        • #2318590
          Susan Bradley
          Manager

          I don’t do a custom recycle bin, but I don’t get shortcuts readded.  I honestly keep telemetry enabled (I want Microsoft to know my patch pain) but it’s not adjusted from the setting I set.  Explorer column widths aren’t changed.  Now one feature release DID do the (annoying) sort by date in the downloads section, but that was there (misguided) intent, not that it was an issue.

          Susan Bradley Patch Lady

          • #2318598
            rebop2020
            AskWoody Plus

            Thanks for that reply, Susan. Those are just examples. I think the list is 60 things that have changed with feature updates since 1803 (?) and the last 1903 to 1909 I think changed about 20. Another example, the default open with for jpg’s changed/.

            One that has happened EVERY time is the disabling of System Restore. That does not change for you? And if not, something must be odd about my system.

             

            ~Bob

        • #2318960
          bbearren
          AskWoody MVP

          When you folks say installed without incident or without hiccup, is that really true? I have not yet had a feature update that did not re-add “shortcut” to desktop shortcuts, or change my custom recycle bin icon, or re-enable telemetry for M’soft or NVIDIA, or change my Explorer column widths, or disable System Restore, or….

          Yes (for me, at least), that is really true, with the exception that occasionally a bit of telemetry will get re-enabled, but I always launch O&O Shutup 10 after an upgrade/feature update to check.  With 20H2 it was only 2 settings, which I reverted with a mouse click.

          “Shortcut” is not added to my desktop shortcuts, change any icons or my File Explorer column widths.  As for System Restore, I don’t use it and have never had it enabled.

          Create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates, in case you need to start over!
          "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns
          "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware

          • #2318961
            rebop2020
            AskWoody Plus

            Interesting. I have not tried 20H2 and I understand it does not act like previous feature updates, so cannot comment. I think I started at 1703, now at 1909 and every time a list of things that have to be reset or changed. a few registry. A few GPedit. On and on.

            When I do 2004 I will make a list and post. Hopefully less changes to fix than 1909 was.

            • #2318991
              bbearren
              AskWoody MVP

              I forgot one non-issue.  A couple of the version upgrades have re-instated Quick Access and Special Folders, which I neither use nor want.

              I say non-issue because I have a couple .reg files that rip them out root and branch when I import the files.

              Create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates, in case you need to start over!
              "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns
              "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware

      • #2318736
        rebop2020
        AskWoody Plus

        On my Lenovo W10 Home version 1909 I have hidden four Realtek updates and one Intel update. I clicked “update system” on Lenovo website but it only came up with BIOS update. Since these updates are hidden from MS, does Lenovo not update them either? Realtek website is all in Chinese so could not look for them. Intel website could not identify update from info taken from MS update request. What to do? Just go ahead and update these through MS?

        You will find English Realtek drivers here:

        https://www.realtek.com/en/downloads

        And I find Lenovo Vantage to show more available drivers than the website for Lenovo.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        Ken
        • #2318756
          Ken
          AskWoody Plus

          I tried Lenovo Vantage first, only BIOS update offered.

          Thank you for Realtek website. I have not idea how to find the updates: Realtek search did not find anything when searching exactly what the update indicates. Can you figure this out, please? I enclose a screen shot of the hidden updates.

           

          Attachments:
          • #2318760
            PKCano
            Manager

            @Ken
            Please post screenshots as .jpg or .png so we don’t have to open a Word document.

            1 user thanked author for this post.
            Ken
            • #2318775
              Ken
              AskWoody Plus

              Hi PKCano, do you have a solution to my question?

      • #2318762
        rebop2020
        AskWoody Plus

        I tried Lenovo Vantage first, only BIOS update offered.

        Thank you for Realtek website. I have not idea how to find the updates: Realtek search did not find anything when searching exactly what the update indicates. Can you figure this out, please? I enclose a screen shot of the hidden updates.

         

        Sorry Ken. My bad. I used that site to email their Tech Support when the driver offered me by WU which was identical to the one offered in Vantage and the Lenovo site broken the Dolby application. I did not find my driver there.

         

        BTW, they never replied. And my post at the Lenovo forums never got an answer either.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        Ken
      • #2318773
        Alex5723
        AskWoody Plus

        I tried Lenovo Vantage first, only BIOS update offered.

        I never installed/used Vantage app.
        I check on Lenovo’s support page for my Lenovo model and type.
        I update manually if required.

        There are 10’s of firmware, drivers.. updates.

        Minutes ago I download from Intel and installed the latest GPU driver.

        • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by Alex5723.
        Attachments:
        1 user thanked author for this post.
        Ken
        • #2318777
          Ken
          AskWoody Plus

          Lenovo support page only offered BIOS.

          Why does MS offer other updates?

      • #2318795
        Alex5723
        AskWoody Plus

        MS offer

        MS offer either universal drives or whatever OEMs feed them (usually old drivers).

        • #2318802
          Ken
          AskWoody Plus

          My question is: How come MS offers updates which Lenovo does not say need updating?

      • #2318806
        Alex5723
        AskWoody Plus

        My question is: How come MS offers updates which Lenovo does not say need updating?

        What updates are offered by MS for your Lenovo PC ?

        On Lenovo support site did you check the Manual Update ?

        Drivers updates are blocked (via GP) on my PC.

        Microsoft doesn’t check with Lenovo your model type and serial number before flooding you with drivers.

        • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by Alex5723.
        Attachments:
        • #2318880
          Ken
          AskWoody Plus

          Please see my attachment in #2318756.

          No, I did not check manual updates, I went to their system update. Pls give me a link.

      • #2318926
        Alex5723
        AskWoody Plus

        Please see my attachment in #2318756.

        No, I did not check manual updates, I went to their system update. Pls give me a link.

        What link ?
        Go to Lenovo support and enter your PC model, type, serial.. just like in my screenshots.
        Never install Microsoft update drivers.
        For drivers go to OEM’s sites : Intel, Nvidia, Realtek….

        List of hidden driver/software updates :

        Attachments:
        1 user thanked author for this post.
        Ken
        • #2318948
          Ken
          AskWoody Plus

          Thanks! I looked at Manual Updates, Drivers and Software: it showed 6 Realtek and  8 Intel. No versions matched those shown by MS. I have downloaded all, but have not installed any. For severity I selected Critical and Recommended. Timeframe All.

          Do I just go ahead and install all? Or select each driver update version and go to Intel or Realtek to find them there?

          How do I select which NOT to install?

          • #2318963
            rebop2020
            AskWoody Plus

            Ken, the current wisdom is NEVER install a driver update from MS. Hide them. Forget them

            Make sure the drivers from Lenovo (or Realtek from LEnovo, or Nvidia from Lenovo, etc) are for YOUR computer. Many different configurations of computers so entering T420 for example is not good enough. Serial or exact model should get you the latest for that computer.

            And if you are not having driver issues, why go after the latest at all? Most do not have major changes. Some can start new problems.

            Any yellow exclamation points in Device Manager? No?  Then get wushowhide, learn how to use it and hide the junk Microsoft is trying to send you, mostly incorrectly.

             

            They are trying to send me a printer driver from 2006! Truly. Why would I possibly want that. I actually told it to install and it failed over and over. That was my bad. It is now hidden.

             

            1 user thanked author for this post.
            Ken
            • #2318983
              Ken
              AskWoody Plus

              Thank you! The stuff from Lenovo is all for my specific laptop, but as you suggest, I will ignore it all. The ones from MS are hidden with wushowhide.

              Now I have WUMgr too which I find better.

              • #2318985
                Alex5723
                AskWoody Plus

                I install only Bios updates and Intel management engine after reading what has been fixed.

                Attachments:
              • #2319006
                Ken
                AskWoody Plus

                All the Intel updates are on the attached screen shots.

                There are two management engine update, one under BIOS and another under Chipset.

                Others vary, some dating back to 2019.

                Reading the “readme” file means nothing to me.

                Install the two MEI’s only?

              • #2319037
                Alex5723
                AskWoody Plus

                I have installed the MEI updates as well as the Bios update.

                1 user thanked author for this post.
                Ken
              • #2319056
                Ken
                AskWoody Plus

                I guess I forgot to attach the screen shots. Here they are.

                Attachments:
      • #2322881
        anonymous
        Guest

        Susan asked “I think the feature release process needs a redo. I think Microsoft thinks so too. What do you think?”, so here is my view:

        If Microsoft extended the Windows 10 support period to longer than 18 months then I could live with having two Windows 10 releases per year.

        I am reasonably conservative about Windows releases. I have just migrated one PC from 1909 to 2004 (my other two PCs are still on 1909). This is roughly in line with what Susan seems to be saying about 2004 just about being ready for most conservative users. This means that there is now less than a year before 2004 goes out of support. In the second half of 2021 I will need to evaluate whether 21H1 is mature enough to risk – if not I would have to move to 20H2, which would only give me an extra 6 months of support.

        If the Windows 10 support period was longer than 18 months then conservative users could stay on a given release for longer. For example if the support period was 3 years then I could wait for 6 months for a release to mature and still have 2.5 years before being forced to upgrade again (assuming that I had no need for any new functionality in the subsequent releases). At present if I wait for 6 months for a release to mature then I only have a year before I am forced to upgrade again.

        Keeping the current release cycle of two Windows 10 releases per year (rather than going to an annual release cycle) would still allow those users that wanted any of the new functionality in a release to get it quicker.

        AP

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