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  • Are we seeing a kinder, gentler push to Win10 version 1903?

    Home Forums AskWoody blog Are we seeing a kinder, gentler push to Win10 version 1903?

    This topic contains 32 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by  PKCano 3 weeks, 1 day ago.

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    • #1883988 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      The 60-day deferral for “Semi-Annual Channel” is up. We’re seeing more and more “Download and install now” notices. But I’ve heard very few complaints
      [See the full post at: Are we seeing a kinder, gentler push to Win10 version 1903?]

    • #1884713 Reply

      b
      AskWoody Plus

      There’s one additional change that wasn’t explicitly documented. As @zero2dash reports, “On my 1803 machines, Semi-Annual Channel, if I change feature deferral to 0, I’m now offered 1903. [Earlier, it was 1809.] If feature deferral is 1 day or more, I’m offered 1809… there is no more Semi-Annual Channel (Targeted) starting today.”

      I don’t follow why this is additional, or undocumented, or unexpected.

      Doesn’t this comply with “the baseline for feature update deferrals started yesterday.”?

      Knuckle dragger Cannon fodder Chump Daft glutton Idiot Crazy/Ignorant Toxic drinker Blockhead Unwashed mass Seeker/Sucker "Ancient/Obsolete" (Group ASAP) Win10 v.1903

    • #1884812 Reply

      EP
      AskWoody_MVP

      I just set my WU deferral settings on a Win10 v1803 machine (using enterprise edition) to SAC [formerly CBB] and feature update deferral period to at least 120 days and I get NO feature update offered (no 1809, nor 1903) – I check for updates using either WuMgr or WUMT (windows update minitool)

      if feature deferral period is set between 1 to around 110 days, then 1809 gets offered

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #1885234 Reply

      AlexEiffel
      AskWoody_MVP

      “Microsoft declared its old terminology obsolete, replacing it with a statement that those who are actually using the Win10 1803 and 1809 Pro settings to select a branch readiness level would instead be subject to an arbitrary 60-day delay in version upgrades.”

      Unless there has been a change since John Wilcox post, the word upgradeS is misleading.

      He said for one-time only, a 60 days delay would be added to simulate the previous delay between SAC-T and SAC and then there would be no additional delay for future upgrades. It is funny that he mentions 60 days, as it was quite different than that for some versions.

      So, actually, apart from the fact that there is no more indication from Microsoft that THEY think a version is suitable for business or tested enough for more serious work or whatever you interpret SAC vs SAC-T means, which can be of questionable use, it actually make things simpler because now they will only follow the feature update delay you put since the release date.

      I question Microsoft’s judgment as to what readiness means when they do a twice a year release cycle and when they do things like sending an early 1809 that had the potential to corrupt data files for some users or implying that AI solves the need for testers and is a panacea for quality rapid cycle development while accompanied by home not-necessarily -aware-beta-testers.

      So, if you are more the careful adopter type, you just set this delay to whatever makes you comfortable, which I think should probably be more 180 days than less. I personally use the maximum allowable time a version is supported and always run the oldest supported version.

      • This reply was modified 4 weeks, 1 day ago by  AlexEiffel.
      • #1885260 Reply

        PKCano
        Da Boss

        But the settings for those deferrals are GONE from the GUI in 1903. Maybe setting deferrals for anything but Ent/Edu behind a server is history, and all there is, is “Pause.”

        • #1885361 Reply

          zero2dash
          AskWoody Lounger

          I’ve been out of the loop, but correct me if I’m wrong –
          We’re still in a holding pattern hoping that this is an unpatched bug, and the GUI drop downs will return. Right?
          I don’t recall seeing word that MS has come out and said they removed them on purpose, and I think I’ve seen several of abbodi’s posts where he tried different things to get them to come back (and/or disappear) somewhat on cue.

          • #1885378 Reply

            PKCano
            Da Boss

            We haven’t heard a peep out of MS one way or the other. To my knowledge, they haven’t acknowledged anything other than SAC/SAC(T) is no longer.
            (But it wouldn’t surprise me if they are gone from Pro for good. Seems Pro is morphing into Home, one Build at a time)

        • #1888796 Reply

          AlexEiffel
          AskWoody_MVP

          I always used the group policies anyway so the fact that the GUI options are there or not doesn’t bother me. I think there are more chances Microsoft will respect group policies than GUI settings, although they occasionnally removed some of their powers for the Pro version since the beginning of Windows 10.

          Using group policies to defer updates has worked very well for me until now.

    • #1888804 Reply

      MidwestMark
      AskWoody Lounger

      Now is probably a decent time to move to 1903, Microsoft will block your upgrade if you’re affected by an important issue, and my Night Light issue seems to be resolved on all 3 of my machines. It has other benefits for both Intel (reducing performance loss due to recent vulnerabilities) and AMD CPUs (scheduler improvements for increased performance). iCloud availability over the Microsoft Store is a really nice addition as well, if you use iOS. Just one more separate piece of update software gone.

      Looking forward to 1909, then I’ll be skipping the spring releases in favor of fall updates going forward. Microsoft has finally gotten all of this right, IMHO.

      • #1893318 Reply

        Tex265
        AskWoody Plus

        Referencing PKCano’s reporting below, are you using Windows 10 Pro or Home?

        If Pro, what are you seeing on the ver 1903 Settings > Windows Update > Advanced Options screen?

        Windows 10 Pro x64 v1803 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64
        • #1893449 Reply

          MidwestMark
          AskWoody Lounger

          Referencing PKCano’s reporting below, are you using Windows 10 Pro or Home?

          If Pro, what are you seeing on the ver 1903 Settings > Windows Update > Advanced Options screen?

          Pro on all 3 machines. Only 1 maintained the deferment options, so they have something odd going on there. I just use group policy, which is always there. Mine is set it and forget it with 210 days feature update (to skip one a year) and 14 days on quality updates.

    • #1889088 Reply

      PKCano
      Da Boss

      On Tues. afternoon (7/23), I went looking for 1903.
      Decided to try to upgrade one of the 1809 VMs to 1903.
      + Up to date through July patches – SAC, 365, o – ran check for updates and got nothing (didn’t expect it there).
      + Left SAC, set Feature deferral = 0, checked for updates. Got offered Preview KB4505658 build 17763.652
      + Installed the Preview, checked for updates – I’m up to date. No “Download and install now” link.
      + Where’s 1903?
      + Clean up – CCleaner and Disk Cleanup. Left Feature updates = 0
      Will try again tomorrow with deferral = 0 and also try 1.

      Wed. 7/24 Settings SAC, 0, 0
      + Check for updates says I’m up to date.
      + Set Feature deferral = 1 – wushowhide says 1903 is available.
      + Set Feature deferral = 2 – wushowhide shows nothing to available.
      +So the count for SAC apparently begins at 1 on 7/24, and apparently it is respecting the deferral because 2 days offers me nothing.

      Thurs. 7/25 Settings SAC, 2, 0
      It finally searched for updates on its own.
      + The setting Feature deferral = 2 gives me 1903 today (it didn’t yesterday)
      + Feature Update to 1903 is in the queue waiting download.
      + There is still no “download and install now” section in WU.

      It would seem that the Feature deferrals in 1809 are still being respected.

      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1891639 Reply

        PKCano
        Da Boss

        The rest of the story.

        In Windows Update I clicked “Download”
        + I ended up with Error 0xc1900222 – thanks for the great explanation, Microsoft.

        There were problems installing some updates, but we’ll try again later.
        Feature update to Windows 10, version 1903 -Error 0xc1900222

        + I downloaded the Update Assistant and the install worked without a hitch. v1903 Build 18362.239

        After install changes:
        + Windows Update – there are no Feature deferral settings, the Quality deferral setting is still there b/c it was set to 0. Not touching it or it will disappear. The Feature deferral value was 365 before the upgrade, but was NOT set in WU for Business in Group Policy before or afterward.

        Screen-Shot-2019-07-26-at-12.30.54-PM

        + The install included the Intel microcode, which I had been avoiding,

        Screen-Shot-2019-07-26-at-12.32.29-PM

        + System Restore was turned off again
        + Network settings were changed in Network Sharing Center, and in the Settings app-Network “allow VPN” and “allow another device to turn on…” were both set to on.
        + In Settings-Personalization, the mode was changed, and I had to turn off transparency to get rid of the blurred login screen that looked like I was going blind (did this get upvoted in the Feedback Hub? Yuk).
        + Changed the desktop background – the ugly glaring blue acrylic window hurt my eyes.
        + Settings-Apps had turned on “allow apps to make phone calls” – don’t even have a phone connected.
        + There are several Scheduled Tasks I no longer have permission to disable.

        So, yes, you need to go back through all your settings after the upgrade.

        Attachments:
        4 users thanked author for this post.
        • #1893314 Reply

          Tex265
          AskWoody Plus

          OK so regarding Windows 10 Pro ver 1903 Advanced Options, is the below link’s information still correct?

          Win10 version 1903 disappearing Update settings described, but not explained

          When feature updating to ver 1903 from either 1803 or 1809 and via either WUpdater or Windows Media, should you first reset your Advanced Options for Feature delay and Quality Update delay days to zero “0” before starting the update process? So those options dont disappear after the 1903 install restart?

          Or will the Feature update to 1903 process set these to “0” and they will show up as long as you do not change them to a number higher than “0”?

          Per info in the referenced link above, is the info still valid regarding still being able to change Advanced settings via the Registry and at least still seeing the changed settings via Group Policy? Or is all you really have left is the Pause delay?

          Windows 10 Pro x64 v1803 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64
          • #1893321 Reply

            PKCano
            Da Boss

            It would appear that the Feature deferral and Quality deferral settings are disappearing from Settings app – Windows Update GUI, along with the SAC/SAC(T) setting in v1903. They are of no use if you can’t change them without their disappearance.

            In my experience, the settings are still being respected in v1803 and v1809 (if you know what they should be).

            • #1893325 Reply

              Tex265
              AskWoody Plus

              They are of no use if you can’t change them without their disappearance.

              So now the Advanced options are not showing up at all regardless of leaving the delay days at zero “0”?

              And even if the Advanced options disappear you can no longer set delays via the Registry and view your setting (greyed out) in Group Policy per the testing info in my referenced link?

              Windows 10 Pro x64 v1803 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64
            • #1893380 Reply

              PKCano
              Da Boss

              What is left in the GUI in the Settings app-Windows Update as a grayed out number may be the reflection of settings made elsewhere (Group Policy or the Registry), but it is not a “setting.” And it is still not clear if there will be functional settings in the GUI again, but I suspect not. If not, it will take the ability to defer Feature/Quality updates out of the hands of many who will not venture into Group Policy or the Registry.

              There is nothing in my statement about the ability to set those deferrals in Group Policy or the Registry. In fact, neither Group Policy or the Registry was mentioned.

            • #1893507 Reply

              Tex265
              AskWoody Plus

              PK, sorry if this is confusing.

              Within the link that I originally referenced, there is alot of conversation and testing by abbodi86 regarding what happens if you make different settings as well as utilize the Registry and Group Policy.

              Your documented update experience seemed to differ from what abbodi86 was experiencing so my questioning centered around whether the upgrade to 1903 had now changed vs back when his/hers was documented. He seemed to be able to still have control over Feature and Quality updates via the Registry and some seemed to think that even when the Advanced options were changed (making them disappear) that the delay days were still being honored by MS.

              Are you seeing any of this with your update or is it now all being ignored by MS?

              Windows 10 Pro x64 v1803 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64
            • #1893508 Reply

              PKCano
              Da Boss

              The Feature deferral value was 365 before the upgrade, but was NOT set in WU for Business in Group Policy before or afterward.

              I only used the GUI. I believe I stated that in my post.

            • #1894273 Reply

              Tex265
              AskWoody Plus

              Pro on all 3 machines. Only 1 maintained the deferment options, so they have something odd going on there. I just use group policy, which is always there. Mine is set it and forget it with 210 days feature update (to skip one a year) and 14 days on quality updates.

              Based on this response from MidWestMark up earlier in this topic thread, it appears there is still some Advanced options control in the Group Policy areas.

               

              Windows 10 Pro x64 v1803 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64
    • #1891854 Reply

      grumpy65867
      AskWoody Lounger

      Got it on my  Alienware Aurora R8 with no problems.

    • #1893892 Reply

      Berserker79
      AskWoody Lounger

      I just spotted the Feature update to 1903 in wushowhide and promptly hid it, since I’m not ready to install 1903 and happy to stay with 1803 for a few more months.

      I’m currently on Windows 10 Home 1803, with June updates installed, no July updates installed, no instance of KB4023057 installed and my connection set to metered. Windows Update is still showing the “Download and install now” notice and (a bit misleadingly) saying that I can install 1903 when I’m ready to do that. I assume that having the Feature update to 1903 showing up in wushowhide actually means that MS was tired of waiting for me to be ready to install and decided to not-so-gently push the update on my machine.

      Assuming things work as expected, it seems that wushowhide is the best ally for anyone running Windows 10 Home who wish to postpone the Feature update to 1903.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #1895613 Reply

      RetiredGeek
      AskWoody MVP

      Hey Y’all,

      After taking my bi-weekly image backups I decided to go hunting on my production machine for 1903. Last night I got the latest 1809 updates. Tonight I checked for updates and got this:

      1903Upgrade
      Well now it’s off to the races and see what happens.

      BTW: I’ve been using 1903 on my test box for a while now w/o problems.

      HTH 😎

      May the Forces of good computing be with you!

      RG

      PowerShell & VBA Rule!
      Computer Specs

      Attachments:
      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #1896157 Reply

        RetiredGeek
        AskWoody MVP

        Here’s an update on the in-place update from 1809 to 1903 Win 10 Pro.

        The update went smoothly and all of my programs seem to work just fine.

        The only hiccup was with Classic Shell. I got this message when the system finally booted.
        1903UpgradeMsg
        FYI: I had to use my phone to capture the above screen since UAC wouldn’t all me access to the snipping tool.

        So I used the information in the message by opening an Administrator level Command Prompt and typing the supplied command:
        ClassicShell-UpgradeSuccess
        All is well once again in Win10 land.

        HTH 😎

        May the Forces of good computing be with you!

        RG

        PowerShell & VBA Rule!
        Computer Specs

        • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 3 days ago by  RetiredGeek.
        • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 3 days ago by  RetiredGeek.
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        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #1896173 Reply

          Microfix
          Da Boss

          Thanks RetiredGeek.
          Is your new Classic-Start version 4.4.138?
          for the benefit of folks who don’t wish hiccups during the upgrade..

          ********** Win7 x64/x86 | Win8.1 x64 | Linux Hybrids x64 **********

        • #1896212 Reply

          Tex265
          AskWoody Plus

          RetiredGeek,

          Per ongoing reporting from PKCano and questions regarding ver 1903″s, Settings>Windows Update>Advance options, Registry Settings, and Group Policy settings can you please advise/describe what you are seeing in these areas with your ver 1903 installation?

          Does Advance options area still show/allow the previous 1803/1809 Feature delay days and Quality updates delay days dropdown selections?

          Do the Group Policies still work?

          When you say “in-place update” did you use a CD/USB Windows Media or the Windows Updater?

          Windows 10 Pro x64 v1803 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64
    • #1896176 Reply

      PKCano
      Da Boss

      UPDATE  UPDATE
      For those of you following my adventure upgrading v1809 to v1903 in posts #1889088 and #1891639, here some more information.

      On 7/27, I blew away the VM in #1891639.
      Next try I started with v1809 Build 17763.615 (July Patch Tues CU)
      + I ran DISM /online /Cleanup-Image /Restorehealth and
      sfc /scannow before starting (to possibly avoid Error 0xc1900222).
      + I left the settings at SAC, 365, 0 in the GUI (the 365 setting sets the Registry value to 0000016d, but DOES NOT change the setting in Group Policy-Windows Update for Business)
      + I used the Update Assistant.
      + v1903 Build 18362.267 was installed (current CU at the time)

      Observations:
      + The screenshot of the Windows Update Advanced options is the same. The deferral setting for Feature updates disappeared. The setting of 0000016d is still set in the Registry at HKLM\Software\Microsoft\WindowsUpdate\UX. In Group Policy, none of the items under “Windows Update for Business” are enabled or show any value. I suspect the settings in these two locations represent two unrelated settings(?) – the GUI pulldowns in 1809 set/changed only the Registry value.
      + The installed updates are the same with the exception of the later CU and SSU. Notice that it installed the Intel microcode patch KB4497165. This patch cannot be uninstalled. I had previously avoided the microcode patches.
      + Settings everywhere still needed to be rechecked.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #1896177 Reply

        PKCano
        Da Boss

        On 7/29, I started again with the original VM v1809 Build 17763.615 (July Patch Tues CU). GUI settings at SAC, 5, 0 – system finally scanned and offered Feature Update to 1903. In an attempt to avoid errors updating through WU, I did the following:

        + I ran DISM /online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth then sfc /scannow. I wanted to see if this would eliminate the Error 0xc1900222 while using the Windows Update download.
        + Feature deferrals set to 5 days. Offered Feature update to 1903. Clicked “Download.”
        + Update failed with Error 0xc1900223 on the Windows Update screen and Error 0x80240034 showing on the Update History screen. See screenshots.
        + Turned off Bitdefender Free and Firewall – try again. Same errors.
        + Ran Windows Update Troubleshooter from the Settings app – try again. same errors.
        + To clean Windows Update, ran:

        net stop wuauserv
        net stop cryptSvc
        net stop bits
        net stop msiserver
        Ren C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution SoftwareDistribution.old
        Ren C:\Windows\System32\catroot2 Catroot2.old
        net start wuauserv
        net start cryptSvc
        net start bits
        net start msiserver

        + Retry added 2019-02 KB4465065 Intel mocrocode patch (which I had been avoiding) to the Feature 1903 upgrade offered. 2019-02 KB4465065 Intel microcode installed but the Feature update gave the same errors.
        + Try again with the microcode installed. Feature Update gave the same errors.

        Observations:
        + At this time, it seems the only way to upgrade this VM from v1809 to v1903 is to use the Upgrade Assistant.
        + The installation includes an Intel microcode patch that is uninstallable.
        + There are two separate Feature deferral settings that do not seem related.
        + The Feature deferral setting in v1809 represented by the pulldowns in the Windows Update GUI (SAC, Feature and Quality) set Registry values related to
        HKLM\Software\Microsoft\WindowsUpdate under \UpdatePolicy and under \UX
        Setting values here DID NOT affect/change the Group Policy settings under “Windows Update for Business.”
        + The Feature deferral settings in v1809 represented by Group Policy settings under “Windows Update for Business” (Readiness level, number of days) DO NOT affect the same Registry values as the pulldowns in the GUI. “Windows Update for Business” settings are found:
        HKLM\Software\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate and \AU
        They are not necessarily the same as those set by the GUI.
        + It is not clear (to me) which deferral settings take precedence, the ones set by the GUI or the ones set in Group Policy. It is also not clear (to me) if those set in Group Policy “Windows Update for Business” are exclusive to Ent/Edu.
        + In any case, in v1903, I find no indication of any Feature update deferral pulldown showing in the Windows Update GUI, grayed out or not, with values set in any location.

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        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1899476 Reply

        EP
        AskWoody_MVP

        I thought the KB4497165 Intel microcode update for 1903 is supposed to be a Catalog only update, PKCano. Windows Update should not be automatically downloading & installing 4497165 on your machine at this time unless it has any one of the affected Intel CPUs (Ivy Bridge or greater) mentioned in MS support KB article 4497165.

        • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 1 day ago by  EP.
        • #1899499 Reply

          PKCano
          Da Boss

          It installed automatically with the Upgrade Assistant. Read through the whole process. Even I did the upgrade in July, this is what was install on the machine after the upgrade (see screenshot #1891639). The second time it was 165 instead of 065.

    • #1896271 Reply

      Alex5723
      AskWoody Plus

      KB4465065 Intel mocrocode patch

      After installing KB4465065 on my Lenovo y530 with Intel i7-8750H the Temperature of the CPU has risen from 43-46C in normal use to 51-58C.

      • #1899481 Reply

        EP
        AskWoody_MVP

        uninstall the KB4465065 update, reboot and try installing the KB4494174 intel microcode update for v1809. post back whether you get either the same result or a different one with KB4494174

        note: MS Update Catalog site indicates that KB4494174 supersedes KB4465065

        • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 1 day ago by  EP.
        • #1899488 Reply

          PKCano
          Da Boss

          My experience with the microcode patch is it was uninstallable on my 1903. See my last big post above. (Second + under Observations)

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