Are Win7 and 8.1 users protected from KB 2952664 and KB 2976978 by GWX Control Panel

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Here’s a question I’ve heard in various versions over the past six months. From a tweet by @Ladyfirst: Just wondering if 8.1 users are protected from
[See the full post at: Are Win7 and 8.1 users protected from KB 2952664 and KB 2976978 by GWX Control Panel]

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HiFlyer, JDeC, Elly, Pepsiboy, PhotM

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I agree that anything like the last GWX campaign is unlikely as it turned out to be a global PR disaster for MS. Another reason for suspecting that GWX may not recur is that MS has serious ongoing W10 privacy issues with the various EU countries for potential violations of the EU Data Protection Act. The Article 29 Working Party has sent another letter to Mr. Nadella which succinctly states that MS is not providing adequate information for W10 users to make any informed consent regarding the OS EULA and that the data collection being imposed may exceed the normal telemetry one would associate with what is required for the healthy operation of the OS itself. This letter was dated as  at February 15th and clearly suggests that many countries, including the UK, Germany, Spain, France  and Slovenia are not comfortable with W10. It would seem that a renewed global GWX campaign would be viewed as being a provocation of sorts until the privacy issues are resolved to the satisfaction of EU officials.

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SueW, HiFlyer, Elly, Canadian Tech, woody

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Windows 7 & 8.1 users are in the same boat without a paddle, with an ever increasing under current toward the whirlpool that is Windows 10.

FUD, if ever there was.. 🙂

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Microfix

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Hmm.., well, I get the feeling that there is underlying ‘trigger data’ hidden within patches since July 2016 waiting to spring into action, and these are the last piece in the MS upgrade jigsaw.

..for cloud computing, the next logical step  🙂

Win8.1/R2 Hybrid lives on..

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lizzytish

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The GWX Control Panel that exists now is totally useless, put a fork in it. If  M$ were to try cramming it down our throats again there’s a zero percent possibility they’d use the same technique knowing that a program already exists to neuter it.

If M$ started another GWX campaign… and I seriously doubt they would… they would without any doubt use a technique that couldn’t be “neutered” quite as easily as the last one.

 

 

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abbodi86

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Microsoft has already harvested all the low hanging fruit. The novices and the naive have already been snagged. Consumers who have decided that they do not want W10 (for now, later or ever) have dug in. Microsoft is currently aggressively targeting W7 small businesses. Most of them do not have a service or onsite IT Pro to manage their systems. Right now it is all about leveraging telemetry as a marketing tool. These KBs gather telemetry on W7/8 for reports or announcements that will be used to to convince or cajole these businesses into going with W10 post haste. It is like sending in those big citrus tree shakers where all the mature fruit gets violently shaken from the trees for processing. Surviving the big shake-up only leads to eventual rot.

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HiFlyer, woody

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HA! Great analogy!

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I see no gain from removing it, and a very long shot that it just could be useful.  It took me a while to get it into all my client computers.  It takes no space or resources to speak of, so there is no reason to be rid of it and a very, very slim chance that some day I will be thankful that I left it in.

CT

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Canadian Tech wrote:

I see no gain from removing it, and a very long shot that it just could be useful. It took me a while to get it into all my client computers. It takes no space or resources to speak of, so there is no reason to be rid of it and a very, very slim chance that some day I will be thankful that I left it in.

It seems the “Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.” adage may apply here. They SAY “There is no GWX or upgrade functionality contained in this update.“, but that’s a sentence just vague enough to mean different things depending on who’s interpreting it.

But beyond that…

It’s documented (tersely) as:

KB2976978

This update performs diagnostics on the Windows systems that participate in the Windows Customer Experience Improvement Program. The diagnostics evaluate the compatibility status of the Windows ecosystem, and help Microsoft to ensure application and device compatibility for all updates to Windows. There is no GWX or upgrade functionality contained in this update.

To help Microsoft.

The argument FOR installing it would be that if you DO allow your system to perform these “diagnostics” and send the resultant telemetry to Microsoft, it’s possible your system’s configuration could increment some counters that would help Microsoft make some future version of Windows compatible with your hardware. I doubt that your hardware is going to fall out of compatibility with the current version of Windows you’re running. So it’s about upgrading to Windows 10, regardless of the wording above.

Presuming a person has a system that they do NOT choose to allow to participate in the CEIP, and has disabled the DiagTrack service (and associated Task Scheduler items), then I don’t see an advantage to downloading this update.

The disadvantages, because of what we don’t know however, could be significant. It says it will perform diagnostics, and doing that will most certainly take resources away from the computer’s actual purpose (note that we don’t know if they’re done just once, repeatedly, on a schedule, or what). Such diagnostics might even de-stabilize a system.

The update is optional, and that means it’s valid to opt out. If one day it were to be rolled-into one of the cumulative updates, then that would be a statement that Microsoft feels it’s an essential part of Windows. But that day is not this day.

I’m hiding the update.

-Noel

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Pepsiboy, lizzytish, Bill C., MikeFromMarkham, SueW, HiFlyer, Elly

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I’m keeping it enabled…LOL major trust issues here

Group B HP Pavilion-dv6 Win7x64 Home Premium-Intel Core i5-3210M CPU

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HiFlyer, lizzytish

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The Steve Gibson fix took care of the original problem.  Maybe it`s still effective.

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HiFlyer

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I should’ve made that clear. Sorry.

Steve’s solution doesn’t work any more, either. It works with the registry in the same way as GWX Control Panel. There’s no reason to run it any more.

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I think it’s unlikely that GWX Control Panel will be needed again, but like Canadian Tech I see no harm in keeping it and have it still running on both my home Windows 7 machines. Its retention is part of my “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” mantra!

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lizzytish, JDeC, HiFlyer

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Seff wrote:

I think it’s unlikely that GWX Control Panel will be needed again, but like Canadian Tech I see no harm in keeping it and have it still running on both my home Windows 7 machines. Its retention is part of my “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” mantra!

It stays on my laptops.   It might just need a few tweaks to take care of any new MS skullduggery.

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lizzytish

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“the nod-nod-wink-wink thing is a bit beneath them.”

Where have you been Woody? I think they have clearly shown that nothing is beneath them.

Windows 10 Home 22H2, Acer Aspire TC-1660 desktop + LibreOffice, non-techie

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HiFlyer

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I think it’s unlikely that GWX Control Panel will be needed again, but like Canadian Tech I see no harm in keeping it and have it still running on both my home Windows 7 machines. Its retention is part of my “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” mantra!

I still have the GWX Control Panel installed on this Win7 Pro machine that I am writing this on. A while back, I upgraded this computer to Win 10, created an image of it “for future purposes”, and then rolled it back to Win7 Pro (for now anyway) using an earlier image.

I can tell you that the GWX Control Panel went off like fireworks but it did allow the upgrade to go through . . .

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HiFlyer

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Actually, I believe there is one tiny feature of GWX Control Panel that Group B and W users in particular will find useful. Specifically, the alert if your Windows Update setting is changed.

The program can alert you if your Windows Update settings change from one of the safer “download only” or “check only” options to “automatically install” behind your back and gives you the chance to fix it with the Change Windows Update Settings feature.

 

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Elly, HiFlyer, lizzytish

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I have no problem letting GWX Control Panel run on my windows 7 sp1 x64 home premium desktop. It takes up no room and has never slowed my desktop down.

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HiFlyer, lizzytish

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Well apparently nobody has paid attention to my post in another thread, where I said that on more than one occasion–one last week–GWXCP, which I have been running continuously, has claimed to have detected Win10 files and shut down my Win7 system, even though WU is disabled. After I rebooted there was no complaint anymore. I have been unable to trace ANY possible cause to this.

I have asked Josh about this but he never replied. So if it is a fluke, I dk that for sure and what caused it.

I do agree that MS would not be as stupid to use the same method which it knows it was defeated, but I would still like to know what these alerts are due to.

 

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In the upper left corner of the latest version of GWXCP (at least v1.7.4.1) there is a little blue square. If you right click on it you can “Save diagnostic info” which creates a text (.txt) file with the changes. When you do that it shows you the location of the file.

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Elly, HiFlyer, walker, woody

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@PKCano:

What is the difference between GWXCP and  GWX?  I thought there was only the one program (GWX).  If there is another one, I’ve missed it somehow.  I’m just keeping the GWX as I have it now.  Thank you for all of the good information you provide.    🙂   🙂

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@ walker

walker wrote:

What is the difference between GWXCP and GWX? I thought there was only the one program (GWX)

It’s easy to get confused–many folks use abbreviations without *defining* them.

But, also, many posters in the past have used the GWX when they were actually talking about the GWXCP program–it’s easier to say the GWX program rather than the GWXCP program–people tend to be lazy!

GWX = Microsoft’s campaign to offer (and in some cases–force) people to install Windows 10–so, so *Get Windows 10*–the abbreviation–the G and W is obvious–but the *X* is the Latin version of the number *10*–so you see the meaning I’m sure.

GWXCP = Get Windows 10 Control Panel by Josh Mansfield (I could be wrong on the last name). See here: http://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/2015/08/using-gwx-stopper-to-permanently-remove.html

The *Control Panel* (GWXCP) is the program to prevent unwanted forcing of the Microsoft *Get Windows 10* (GWX) program(s) from being placed on your computer system if you didn’t want it.

So that’s the difference.

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Elly, HiFlyer

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Aha, good to know, thanx.

I will check to see if anything was left after the incident. Is it true that it should not shut down the system if it detects win10 files?

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@ fp

fp wrote:

on more than one occasion–one last week–GWXCP, which I have been running continuously, has claimed to have detected Win10 files and shut down my Win7 system, even though WU is disabled.

I too have GWXCP running continuously, and have never had a problem similar to yours.  (I have left it installed and running because it does not seem to be interfering with anything else on my system at the moment (and I’m lazy)–not really too concerned about another GWX campaign–we’ll find out soon enough.)

But, to my point, I was unaware of any functionality in the GWXCP program that *shuts down ones Win7 system*.  So that seems like that’s an inappropriate response.

I would start looking at some other program that has been installed that is somehow interacting with the GWXCP program causing some sort of *collision* of function(s) that triggers the response you’re seeing.

If you have the problem again, how about screen shots of the warning message(s), or anything else that might hold clues–a list of programs you have running in the background or foreground at the time.

PKCano has recommended using the *diagnostic* function of the GWXCP to see if it is giving you any clues.

Do you have any other anti-GWX  programs installed and still active?

Just some thoughts ….

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HiFlyer

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1st, the fact that you have not experienced such incidents does not mean that they can’t occur for somebody else in different circumstances.

2nd, even during the MS GWX campaign, when GWXCP was running it ALWAYS shut down my system when it detected Win10 files. Since Josh does not respond, I would like to see some confirmation from other users that this is not the intended behavior and, if so, what could cause it.

3rd, I very much doubt it’s interaction with another program. It’s more likely that GWXCP detection is for some reason incompatible with my system and it i whs shut down. Be that as it may, something triggered a detection first, and I am interested in that more than in the shutdown.

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I found this information in the GWXCP manual

” All alerts are enabled by default except for the one for non-critical Windows 10 settings. (This is because Windows sometimes changes those settings in the background and they can result in a lot of alerts.)”

Perhaps you can “Click to disable Non-critical Windows 10 settings” since MS is no longer installing Win10 without users’ permission.

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HiFlyer

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Is there a difference between that and shutting it down altogether?

I would still like to know what triggered a detection.

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fp wrote:

Well apparently nobody has paid attention to my post in another thread, where I said that on more than one occasion–one last week–GWXCP, which I have been running continuously, has claimed to have detected Win10 files and shut down my Win7 system, even though WU is disabled. After I rebooted there was no complaint anymore. I have been unable to trace ANY possible cause to this.

You are the first person I have ever heard state that GWXCP shut down their computer. To my knowledge, my experience, the indication was always a popup from the taskbar saying a change had been detected. And I found no indication in the manual that a shutdown would be the result of the detection. That’s not to say you are wrong about the cause of the shutdown, only that I have never run across it.

During the GWX campaign, there was a discussion of other related consequences beside the GWX icon in the taskbar brought on by KB3035583. One of the topics was the related telemetry and compatibility patches, among them KB2952664 (which has just been re-re-re-released). They changed some of the tasks performed by the Task Scheduler. The telemetry/compatibility patches have had many iterations, at least one of them several times since the GWX campaign ended. It is a possibility that detection of changes in these patches or the related tasks was built into GWXCP under the “non-critical Win10 settings.” I am not stating this as a fact, only a possibility.

This is the best explanation I can give you for the detection. As for the shutdown, I have no answer.

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Noel Carboni wrote:

Canadian Tech wrote:

I see no gain from removing it, and a very long shot that it just could be useful. It took me a while to get it into all my client computers. It takes no space or resources to speak of, so there is no reason to be rid of it and a very, very slim chance that some day I will be thankful that I left it in.

It seems the “Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.” adage may apply here. They SAY “There is no GWX or upgrade functionality contained in this update.“, but that’s a sentence just vague enough to mean different things depending on who’s interpreting it. But beyond that… It’s documented (tersely) as:

KB2976978 This update performs diagnostics on the Windows systems that participate in the Windows Customer Experience Improvement Program. The diagnostics evaluate the compatibility status of the Windows ecosystem, and help Microsoft to ensure application and device compatibility for all updates to Windows. There is no GWX or upgrade functionality contained in this update.

To help Microsoft. The argument FOR installing it would be that if you DO allow your system to perform these “diagnostics” and send the resultant telemetry to Microsoft, it’s possible your system’s configuration could increment some counters that would help Microsoft make some future version of Windows compatible with your hardware. I doubt that your hardware is going to fall out of compatibility with the current version of Windows you’re running. So it’s about upgrading to Windows 10, regardless of the wording above. Presuming a person has a system that they do NOT choose to allow to participate in the CEIP, and has disabled the DiagTrack service (and associated Task Scheduler items), then I don’t see an advantage to downloading this update. The disadvantages, because of what we don’t know however, could be significant. It says it will perform diagnostics, and doing that will most certainly take resources away from the computer’s actual purpose (note that we don’t know if they’re done just once, repeatedly, on a schedule, or what). Such diagnostics might even de-stabilize a system. The update is optional, and that means it’s valid to opt out. If one day it were to be rolled-into one of the cumulative updates, then that would be a statement that Microsoft feels it’s an essential part of Windows. But that day is not this day. I’m hiding the update. -Noel

 

Noel,

Same here.  It has been a long time since I have fully TRUSTED Microsoft, and will probably be a long time (if ever) before I trust them again. And at my age, why should I get rid of a system that is WORKING and supposedly supported?

Thanks to all for keeping us informed and updated about the nasty ones.

 

Dave

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It was and still an aggressive unprofessional tool in my opinion, kind like the click-bate news that feed on FUD

 

those who see no harm in keeping it, why do see harm in installing recommended updates then? both are not needed in the same perspective

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ch100

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What are you referring to as an aggressive and unprofessional tool – GWX or GWXCP ?

What are you referring to as clickbait – GWX or GWXCP ?

In reference to recommended updates: There is no comparison between an update that forces an upgrade to an OS and other updates that patch vulnerabilities. The upgrade to W10 was not wanted by some users and the GWXCP tool was just a convenient way of preventing it from happening. Patches are widely accepted as beneficial.

Keeping GWXCP on a system after MS has announced that the GWX campaign is over is based on the fear that something else is in the chute, uncertainty as to how it will be delivered and doubt that Microsoft can be trusted. in this case, the FUD was not manufactured.

Myself, I have uninstalled GWXCP. I appreciate the time the programmer put into creating it and making it available. I left a post of thanks and a donation on his website. Microsoft was the aggressor here, not the programmer.

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Elly, HiFlyer, Just Lurking, Microfix

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> Keeping GWXCP on a system after MS has announced that the GWX campaign is over is based on the fear that something else is in the chute,

You betcha. Those of us who do keep it are fully aware that the campaign is over and that the chance MS will use the same method is slim. However, saying one thing and doing another is a pattern with MS and assuring that it’s over precisely to lead some users to drop it and make themselves vulnerable to the same method is not something I put past a monopolist desperate that it’s losing its monopoly and has no talent or competence to overcome it, with only bullying left.

Since it costs nothing to run, why exactly should I not?

 

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HiFlyer, Canadian Tech

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Abbodi, while I admire much of what you post on here, this is not a well thought out comparison. GWXCP was from a benevolent source trying to protect people from a malevolent source, the same one which recommends snooping updates etc.

Windows 10 Home 22H2, Acer Aspire TC-1660 desktop + LibreOffice, non-techie

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Elly, HiFlyer, fp, lizzytish

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@ abbodi86

those who see no harm in keeping it, why do see harm in installing recommended updates then? both are not needed in the same perspective

Bc many Win 7/8.1 users do not trust most of M$’s recommendations. Win 10, GWX KB3035583 and Telemetry KB2952664 were respectively, like adware, malware and spyware recommended by M$.

Wise consumers discriminate between good and bad/evil recommendations or positive reviews, eg Yelp has fake recommendations/positive reviews.

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Elly, HiFlyer, fp, lizzytish

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@abbodi86 I tend to agree with you, but… I think you posted this one on the wrong forum. 🙂

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abbodi86 wrote:

It was and still an aggressive unprofessional tool in my opinion, kind like the click-bate news that feed on FUD

I put GWX Control Panel on a friend’s Windows 7 computer. In spite of that, he got “upgraded” to Windows 10, although I know he didn’t want Windows 10.

I still have GWX CP on both of my non-Windows 10 computers. Whether or not it’s actually helping, it’s certainly not hurting anything to have it up and running.

What exactly do you mean when you say that GWX CP “was and still an aggressive unprofessional tool in my opinion, kind like the click-bate news that feed on FUD”? It sounds like you are actually describing GWX, not GWX CP.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 8.1 running in a VM

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Elly, HiFlyer

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The GWX Control Panel was never meant to prevent the upgrade. It was meant as a warning to let the User know if files were changed, if KB3035583 was installed, if the Windows Update settings were set to allow updating, if the downloaded install files were on the computer. It helped the average User remove the GWX icon and the downloaded files.

What it didn’t do was protect the User from OKing the upgrade by clicking on one of MS’s devious schemes to trick him.

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Elly, HiFlyer

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