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MS-DEFCON 2:
Patch reliability is unclear. Unless you have an immediate, pressing need to install a specific patch, don't do it.
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Are you being pushed from Win10 1803 to 1903? Tell me about it.
Posted on Comment on the AskWoody Lounge- This topic has 87 replies, 31 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 5 months ago.
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Microsoft officially started pushing Win10 1803 machines onto version 1903 two days ago. Apparently the push doesn’t respect your Pro settings to “def
[See the full post at: Are you being pushed from Win10 1803 to 1903? Tell me about it.] -
Regarding the comment about being better off on 1803 or 1809:
For what it’s worth, I’m deploying 1809 in earnest and finding it to be extremely stable at this point. After a very shaky start it’s now a solid release, presumably because Microsoft felt it had to get 1809’s Server and LTSC siblings up to scratch.
(I’m still tracking a few nuisance shell bugs – as usual – but there aren’t any deal-breakers. Presumably those bugs aren’t going to be fixed at this point.)
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I decided to give it a go last weekend – coincidentally and unknowingly prior to MS advising about the forced push coming up (then) soon.
My comments – as per my post on TenForums:
Download was relatively quick, installation long-ish (40 mins?) although rather uneventful. Once restarted to upgrade, PC has gone through the usual motions and some time later (I had a breakfast in the meantime so not sure when exactly and how many restarts later) I was welcomed with the same login page as prior to the upgrade.
And I’m quite pleased to confirm that all is well and I can’t see any difference – which is great!
Things that have gone off-piste during previous upgrades (from memory: HP printer driver suddenly missing, annoying re-indexing from scratch, default storage settings / paths changed, System Restore deactivated, some programs not working anymore and requiring reinstall, privacy settings back to the default etc.) are non-existing and I’m yet to find something wrong.
The only thing that I did carefully taking into account stability issues I had experienced long time ago was to double-check versions of all key installed drivers (Intel, AMD, Realtek etc.) and with the exception of Intel Chipset being downgraded to default Microsoft’s *.38 release, all drivers remain the same as prior to the update.
So this was not a bad experience, I must say.
And:
Have checked all these [some settings as advised by another member] and did not have to do anything here, i.e. my settings may differ from yours but remain the same as prior to the upgrade to 1903.
And finally:
One thing I noticed is larger footprint this time: OS upon loading with all paraphernalia now utilises ca. 5GB in RAM upfront. I daresay it used to be below 4GB before (creeping up as I progressed).
OS / PC remains stable few days later.
3 users thanked author for this post.
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I assume you have “Semi-Annual Channel” specified.
The 58/59-day cutoff matches what PKCano saw with the 1803-to-1809 upgrade.
And I’m relieved to hear that we’re getting the kinder, gentler “Download and install now” upgrade. That goes a long way toward reducing the sting of having a product that hits EOL in November getting upgraded four months early.
3 users thanked author for this post.
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That’s the May 21st Preview. So if they are using SAC and WU, they have to be patched through June Patch Tues. to avoid upgrade.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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Is that “avoid” — or is it “if you’re patched through June, you’ll be asked politely if you want to upgrade”?
3 users thanked author for this post.
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1803 Pro
June updates installed (nothing from July)
SAC
120 day feature deferral
14 day quality deferralIf I change feature deferral to 0 days, I am offered 1809 install.
No matter what, I’m not being offered 1903.1 user thanked author for this post.
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To follow up:
It looks like 112 days is the key figure here, as that is when 1809 moved to SAC.
If I change the feature update deferral to 0-112 days, I am offered 1809.
113 days or more, I am offered nothing.Looks like any systems out there with the 120 day deferral recommended by MS and Woody will update to 1809 next Friday 7/26.
In order to be offered 1903, I have to change Branch Readiness Level to Semi-Annual Channel (Targeted). Then, I am offered 1903. It looks like the SAC setting will indeed stick as MS says, until we go to 1903. Then the picture will get a bit more muddy once again.
Source: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/release-information/
2 users thanked author for this post.
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As of Win10 1903, I wouldn’t spend $100 for Pro, unless you need one of the Pro features.
The main impetus for spending the extra money — keeping the %$#@! updates off your machine — is mitigated somewhat by Pause updates.
2 users thanked author for this post.
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Pro also has the Group Policy settings for controlling Updates and many other Windows functions. (Unless 1903 has nullified those?)
That’s precisely the problem. Microsoft hasn’t documented how the 1903 settings interact with each other, and how the 1809 settings do or do not interact with the pushed update. I’m trying to, uh, reverse engineer it by seeing what happens in the real world.
3 users thanked author for this post.
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Patched thru June
With SAC
Feature deferred 365 days
Quality deferred 0 days
Group Policy > Windows Updater set at 2
I receive the following on my Win10 v1803 Windows Update screen:
“You’re currently running a version of windows that’s nearing the end of support. We recommend you update to the most recent version of Windows 10 now to get the latest features and security improvements.”
Windows 10 Pro x64 v1909 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 (RIP)1 user thanked author for this post.
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Show us a picture because that’s not all that’s there.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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You’re information would be worth a whole lot more if it was complete.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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Completely forgot that I took this screen shot awhile back. Hope it shows up.
This is what I see with each automatic WUdate, then the paragraph goes away after selecting the “Download” button or in this case the “Restart Now” button,and upon closing the WU screen till next time.
(Note since this screen shot was after a CU update install, the button shows “Restart Now” vs showing “Download” which shows up for pending updates).
Windows 10 Pro x64 v1909 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 (RIP)
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No. But …
See my posts
and also
Ever since October 2015 (When I installed Win 10/64 H from a USB stick) I restored an image 1 single time somewhere early 2017. Not because of a failed update, but because I drowned my system with a dumb mistake of my own devising.
Cheers,
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I’ve been doing fresh installs on all of my computers with Win 10 1809 Pro. Last weekend I did a complete install on my oldest CAD Workstation. After the OS was installed and fully updated, 1903 was offered.
Next I installed Office 2013 Pro plus MS Project Pro 2013 and Visio Pro 2013. At this point, the 1903 updated was no longer being offered. It appears that Office 2013 is a show stopper for 1903.
2 users thanked author for this post.
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“Microsoft officially started pushing Win10 1803 machines onto version 1903 two days ago. Apparently the push doesn’t respect your Pro settings to “defer feature updates.” At least, that’s what’s been promised.”
I found the announcement of pushing the update here. Where is the “promise” that it will ignore deferrals?
“– with 58 days or less deferral, 1903 is offered
– with 59 days or more deferral, 1809 is offered”According to the official release doc, 1903 went semi-annual on May 21, 2019, 58 days ago. So deferrals are working exactly as expected.
Seems like the news is that Microsoft has lifted a forced deferral of 1903? Sort of like it used to do when it declared a release “ready for business”?
3 users thanked author for this post.
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The changing terminology – and abandoning a setting that’s still in the 1803 UI – is very confusing to me, but it looks like you’re right.
3 users thanked author for this post.
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Are you being pushed from Win10 1803 to 1903? Tell me about it
Greetings from Spain. I’m in version 1809.17763.593 and for more than a month I have the announcement, that I can download “when it suits me” the new version of Windows 1903, it goes without saying that at the moment, I have no intention of downloading or installing it, but here begins the good, as I am pushed sindo to install it, then no more and no less than to connect the computer and start session, opens the default browser announcing me from a Microsoft page that there is already a new version of Windows, with all the “advantages and too much propaganda of the new version” this morning has appeared to me, sorry not to have made a screenshot, as I’m sure I’ll appear more times, I’ll make the capture so you can see what’s going to “push” Microsoft.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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Version 1803 Build 17134.829 – Up to date June Patch Tues. As of 7/18/2019.
GUI settings: SAC, Feature deferral = 365, Quality deferral = 0
Group Policy settings: Automatic Updates = Enabled, value 2
It appears to be respecting the deferrals – I am not offered either 1809 or 1903.
Wushowhide showed before updating:
GUI settings:
Windows Update offered:
5 users thanked author for this post.
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Indeed, i stand correct to my post earlier
– with 248 days or more deferral, no feature updates is offered for 1803
3 users thanked author for this post.
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Here’s a consistent representation of my small group of test machines on 1803-Pro-x64:
All are fully patched as of today (past their update deferral range) but are held back via the UI settings for feature updates, which are set at 364 days plus SAC (Business ready).
Deliberate seeker behavior (I pushed the button!) results in “You’re up to date” without a direct UI button that offers to install 1809 or 1903.
However, I am being offered links on that page enticing me to manually upgrade. Those two links lead to the following pages:
Learn More — https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/13853/windows-lifecycle-fact-sheet
See what’s new in the latest update — https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4043948/windows-10-whats-new-in-recent-updates
The current build number on these machines is V 1803 — OS Build 17134.885.
~ Group "Weekend" ~
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What you are seeing would agree with what I am seeing. See post above.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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Sunuvagun. Maybe Microsoft is going to approach this gingerly.
What a change!
3 users thanked author for this post.
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See my edit above – it looks like the SAC vs. SAC(T) switch in 1803 is the magic one here.
If I change to SAC(T), I’m offered 1903.
With it set to SAC, I’m offered 1809.
This is assuming deferrals are set to a period that has x amount of days from here (https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/release-information/).Next Friday 7/26 will be the mass 1803 > 1809 upgrade for most of us AW followers who follow MS and your advice, Woody (with 120 day feature deferrals). You may want to put an APB out a day or two ahead of time for everyone to backup their machines, if they don’t already.
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A couple of weeks ago , I followed PKCano’s instructions for going directly from 1803 to 1809, skipping 1903. I have had no problems here and I set my Group Policy the same as I had it in 1803. I have not had 1903 offered at all. I set the Feature update defer setting to 365. I’m liking 1809 better than ever, because I have software that has never worked with any version of Windows 10 since 1511 that is working perfectly with 1809.
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My apologies for the inconsistent info before, i was not aware (or actually forgot) that UUP dump API only check against Semi Annual Channel Targeted (BranchReadinessLevel=CB)
i re-did the tests on actual Windows 10 Pro 1803 this time, updated with KB4499183 (17134.799)
and thanks to @zero2dash for confirmingwith Semi Annual Channel Targeted “CB”:
– no deferral (0 days), 1903 is offered
– 1 to 58 days, 1903 is offered
– 59 to 247 days, 1809 is offered
– 248 to 365 days, no feature update is offeredwith Semi Annual Channel “CBB”:
– no deferral (0 days), no feature update is offered
– 1 to 112 days, 1809 is offered
– 113 to 365 days, no feature update is offeredinterestingly enough, the “Download and install now” behavior is not available anymore, whenever a feature update is offered (1903 or 1809), it’s pushed
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regarding the notice that appear in WU page “You’re currently running a version of windows that’s nearing the end of support….”
that’s caused and displayed by Update Notification Manager, which is built-in since version 1803 or 1807 (was delivered to 1607 via update KB4013214)to get rid of that notice, simply delete this folder (it’s not locked)
"C:\Program Files\UNP"3 users thanked author for this post.
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Correct
in my tests there were no difference, i get 1903 (or 1809) with or without seeking
any tool or script used for scanning other than clicking “Check for updates” is non-seeker
this include the detection checks that the system perform1 user thanked author for this post.
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I have been able to confirm this, abbodi86 & woody (even on a test machine running Win10 v1803 enterprise x64 edition)
v1903 gets offered when in the SAC-T channel for v1803
v1809 gets offered instead of 1903 after changing to the SAC channel on v1803I used WUMT (windows update minitool) to check for updates when conducting those tests
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with Semi Annual Channel “CBB”:
– no deferral (0 days), no feature update is offered
– 1 to 112 days, 1809 is offered
– 113 to 365 days, no feature update is offered(emphasis added)
Yeah, that seems to match what I’ve seen too. Set deferral to 0 in that branch and 1803 is reported to be up to date…
Which is less than optimal, given that the third-party solution for update management we use only intercepts stuff after that point.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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I have a couple of tweets from @ITTechDavid who says…
I’m on Windows 10 Home 1803. This is in the Windows Update panel:
So we do have an in-the-wild report of the “Download and install now” link.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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My tests were on Pro with default settings (except the “Notify to download” policy), and it’s not there
it was there in 1803 when i checked KB4499183 back in May, but not now
and still there in 1809 and 19031709 and 1703 did not get that enhanced module
as matter of fact, on SAC (CBB) with deferral, both still get 1809 or 1803
and on SAC-T (CB), they get 1903 or 1809 or 1803, based on deferral days1 user thanked author for this post.
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I am a retired 75 year old electronics engineering tech. I used to maintain all types of systems. I am a windows 10 Home user with two desktop pcs that I upgraded from windows 7 Home Premium. My comments are for the average windows 10 home user, that, a lot of people say has to take what ever microsoft pushes out to them, ie; no fine grained os control.
Since my upgrade to windows 10 Home, I have have had very little to no problems at all on either of my machines. I have both of them setup to let windows handle and take care of itself. A year ago I purchased a new X370 motherboard and Ryzen cpu, went with a newly purchased windows 10 Home product key. It installed properly on PCIe NVMe M.2 ssd as uefi on gpt, all needed drivers with 3 local accounts, 1 admin, 2 standard. It has taken care of all three user accounts with any program, utility or standalone installs. It has politely offered to install a few items it thought might be helpful to me, but left me alone when I declined, with no farther nags. The 1st few version upgrades of windows 10 Home said they were ready to install on my pc and did so, with the exception, 1 time, it said my pc was not ready for the new update and they would let me know when it was ok to install, a couple of weeks later it installed (1803), the last install (1903) was offered, not pushed, and said I could download and install when ready. I waited a few weeks, having read articles that said I should wait. Windows 10 Home, during this time, did not try to forcefully install, just always had the message I could download and install when ready. I finally told it to go ahead with the (1909) install. It did and every thing is running fine, the only problem it had was with Edge browser not working. In about a days time, it notified me that the system had a problem and would take care of it. Shortly there after Edge browser is working fine and everything else.
On my second pc, older 890 motherboard BIOS MBR 250gb hdd windows 7 upgraded to windows 10 with digital license. Made a system image with windows 10 recovery tools and saved to storage hdd. Purchased 250gb ssd, installed and did a windows 10 system image recovery to new ssd, rebooted and everything running fine on new ssd BIOS MBR. Windows 10 Home still taking care of itself. Purchased new X470 uefi motherboard with Ryzen cpu and new DDR4 ram, used the Windows 10 Home 250gb bios mbr ssd. Booted and windows 10 Home (1809) detected everything and installed all new drivers. Everything running ok with windows telling me I need to reactivate. Reactivation process told me that my hardware had changed in my Windows 10 Home digital license, ask to verify my original windows 7 upgrade license key, input the key code. Windows 10 Home (1809) validated and acitvated with digital license. Windows 10 Home (1903) offered for download and install (not pushed), waited several days then allowed it to download and install Windows 10 Home (1903). Every thing running fine on new os update except as with my other machine, Edge Browser not working. Shortly there after windows said it detected a problem and would try to repair it. After its repairs, Edge browser working fine. Windows 10 Home still setup to take care of itself. Since I had new uefi motherboard, I used windows 10 home (1903) tools to convert the 250gb ssd bios mbr windows drive to uefi gpt. Conversion process completed properly and booted into windows 10 Home (1903) 250gb uefi gpt ssd. Everything is running smooth on both of my upgraded desktops even after major hardware upgrades and windows is still taking care of itself.I have used Microsoft OS since DOS 1.0 and I have used Linux and IBM, they are all good OS. I am on the internet a lot, I do FB, forums, purchases, family history research, photo work and various other things on my desktops and the internet. I used to tweak my systems a lot and run various programs for security. These days windows and other operating systems have matured so much that they can pretty much take care of their self. There will always be some upsets with some hardware and software (mostly older), but I think for most of the average windows 10 Home users (like me) you will be ok to let windows take care of itself and don’t feel left out just because you are not on windows 10 pro or other os. My 2 desktops are doing just fine. LOL, I’ve also followed Brian Livingston and Woody’s articles and posts starting years ago. They are two, good, and very informed fellows.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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Windows 10-1903 Breaks one of our applications.
I have machines at 1809 telling me that 1903 is ready to download.
The problem is that I have an application that is starting to cause problems before the download. And when you download and update, the application breaks.I did a new install of Windows 10 – 1903 – 18362.239 and then installed the application and it breaks.
I tried compatibility options and trouble shooter but this does not fix the problem.
The forced update will break the application for 60 people.
Below is the error.
Not good at all, application that has been running on Win 10 all this time is now breaking.
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contact the maker of the application, tell the creator about the problem with 1903 so that the maker of the app could issue an update
1 user thanked author for this post.
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Have you tried downloading the update using the Windows Media Creation Tool, then applying the update from that?
cheers, Paul
1 user thanked author for this post.
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My computer works perfectly. Is there anything else I can do? Extremely frustrated for a long time.
As your are using 1803 Microsoft will forcibly push you to 1903 whether you want or not. The best option for now, if you want to block 1903 is to upgrade to 1809. You can download ISO for 1809 and run an in-place upgrade (take a full backup before the upgrade).
You can download the ISO files using HeiDoc.net : https://www.heidoc.net/joomla/technology-science/microsoft/67-microsoft-windows-and-office-iso-download-tool
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I upgraded the Office computer from 1803 to 1809 on 7/20 (still too many horror tales for 1903).
I started by updating 1803 through the July updates. With settings at SAC and Feature deferral = 365, I was only offered the July CU and the rest of the July patches (no push to 1903). Then I cleaned up (CCleaner and disk cleanup). backed up User data, and made an full disk image.The original settings were SAC, 365, and 0. Had to hide h/w drivers, Intel microcode patches and KB…057 (“reset your settings and upgrade you” patch) with wushowhide, then clear the WU queue.
I did the upgrade by setting the Feature deferral to 114 days (could have used 115 on 7/20). I was offered Feature Update to 1809 (still no sign of 1903). The upgrade seems to have gone without a hitch.After the upgrade:
+ Had to turn System Protection back on.
+ Had to run through the Settings app and readjust a few.
+ They have custom settings in the Trusted Zone in IE11 for the check reader/banking operations – these had to be reset again.
+ There was no “download and install now” offer for 1903 when I checked after the upgrade – will look again today.
+ Reset the Feature deferral back to 365 (it’s still there in 1809) -
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I was on 1709, got upgraded to 1803 patched to July.
SAC, 365, 6.
Good thing is it went fast and to my surprise I didn’t get web searches activated. I guess it is because my Cortana consent was already off.
I didn’t need to reactivate system protection, it was already on.
I had to go to privacy settings to fix a few new settings for which no consent was asked.
I clicked on check for updates multiple times and got nothing new after an intel microcode patch and two Adobe ones. Just that my system is up to date.
I didn’t go through all the things that changed yet, just a quick look.
I didn’t get annoyed by Microsoft telling me I need to leave 1803. I can’t complain much. I started seeing more relevant local search results at last (I don’t need to click on the filter no more to see my searches because I don’t use the standard Microsoft folders and maybe because I am on ReFS for my data disks). That makes me very happy.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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They already are honoring the deferrals, it’s been tested many times above (including by myself). 1903 is not being offered to machines unless they’re on the SAC(T) branch, and mine are not. Again, this has been tested and proven above.
For several years now, they’ve honored the deferrals. Deferrals are a part of the infrastructure used by enterprise customers and no, they’re not going to throw those aside.
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1903 is not being offered to machines unless they’re on the SAC(T) branch, and mine are not.
Until tomorrow:
Customers on Windows 10, version 1809 using Windows Update for Business set to Semi-Annual Channel and a 0-day deferral: your 60-day one-time deferral period will end on Tuesday, July 23, and your devices will begin updating to Windows 10, version 1903. https://t.co/wMtFMUUevr
— Windows Update (@WindowsUpdate) July 15, 2019
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Sure enough, there’s a new wrinkle in the fold. @woody
On my 1803 machines, SAC, if I change feature deferral to 0, I’m now offered 1903.
If feature deferral is 1 day or more, I’m offered 1809.
I would imagine as time goes on, these will move. (IE tomorrow with 1 day deferral will get 1903)Interesting indeed. B’s link above is true…there is no more SAC(T) starting today.
4 users thanked author for this post.
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woody
born is reporting that 1809 users will soon get the 1903 upgrade starting July 23
https://borncity.com/win/2019/07/22/windows-10-v1809-upgrade-to-v1903-on-july-23-2019/
time for 1809 users to get those WU deferral options working if they don’t want the 1903 upgrade
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There are several methods to go from 1803 to 1809 mentioned in this thread. Mine is here.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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What about people on Windows 10 home 1803 or so? When will they be pushed to 1903?
1 user thanked author for this post.
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Yes. It’s only a question of when and how.
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Dell laptop, Win10 Home 1803, OS build = 17134.885
Went on a 7 day road trip, came home yesterday and Win10 1903 is already downloaded waiting for me to reboot. System uses wired ethernet with “metered” enabled. Have not done a manual reboot to trigger 1903 upgrade with random gratuitous changes.
On a different laptop, also Win10 Home 1803, I did a manual 1903 upgrade before my trip to avoid dealing with a W10 upgrade while on the road. This was more annoying, W10 only showed 1809 upgrade, no option for 1903. Did upgrade to 1809 then W10-update said 1903 ready, did 2nd upgrade to 1903 with no problems. “Bah Humbug” and many other NSFW words apply.
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