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  • Are you being pushed from Win10 1803 to 1903? Tell me about it.

    Home Forums AskWoody blog Are you being pushed from Win10 1803 to 1903? Tell me about it.

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      • #1876367 Reply
        woody
        Da Boss

        Microsoft officially started pushing Win10 1803 machines onto version 1903 two days ago. Apparently the push doesn’t respect your Pro settings to “def
        [See the full post at: Are you being pushed from Win10 1803 to 1903? Tell me about it.]

        Attachments:
        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1876371 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        Regarding the comment about being better off on 1803 or 1809:

        For what it’s worth, I’m deploying 1809 in earnest and finding it to be extremely stable at this point. After a very shaky start it’s now a solid release, presumably because Microsoft felt it had to get 1809’s Server and LTSC siblings up to scratch.

        (I’m still tracking a few nuisance shell bugs – as usual – but there aren’t any deal-breakers. Presumably those bugs aren’t going to be fixed at this point.)

        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1876380 Reply
        mn–
        AskWoody Lounger

        … there seems to have been a kind of pattern in that, about when MS starts pushing one release aggressively, the one before that is usually in a stable phase.

        As in stable phase seems to start approximately around build minor version .500 … halfway through the release lifetime.

      • #1876398 Reply
        krzemien
        AskWoody Lounger

        I decided to give it a go last weekend – coincidentally and unknowingly prior to MS advising about the forced push coming up (then) soon.

        My comments – as per my post on TenForums:

        https://www.tenforums.com/windows-10-news/133029-how-get-windows-10-may-2019-update-version-1903-a-121.html#post1672000

        Download was relatively quick, installation long-ish (40 mins?) although rather uneventful. Once restarted to upgrade, PC has gone through the usual motions and some time later (I had a breakfast in the meantime so not sure when exactly and how many restarts later) I was welcomed with the same login page as prior to the upgrade.

        And I’m quite pleased to confirm that all is well and I can’t see any difference – which is great!

        Things that have gone off-piste during previous upgrades (from memory: HP printer driver suddenly missing, annoying re-indexing from scratch, default storage settings / paths changed, System Restore deactivated, some programs not working anymore and requiring reinstall, privacy settings back to the default etc.) are non-existing and I’m yet to find something wrong.

        The only thing that I did carefully taking into account stability issues I had experienced long time ago was to double-check versions of all key installed drivers (Intel, AMD, Realtek etc.) and with the exception of Intel Chipset being downgraded to default Microsoft’s *.38 release, all drivers remain the same as prior to the update.

        So this was not a bad experience, I must say.

        And:

        Have checked all these [some settings as advised by another member] and did not have to do anything here, i.e. my settings may differ from yours but remain the same as prior to the upgrade to 1903.

        And finally:

        One thing I noticed is larger footprint this time: OS upon loading with all paraphernalia now utilises ca. 5GB in RAM upfront. I daresay it used to be below 4GB before (creeping up as I progressed).

        OS / PC remains stable few days later.

        3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1876406 Reply
        abbodi86
        AskWoody_MVP

        Per my UUP dump API tests:

        – with no deferral, 1903 is offered (as “Download and install now”)
        – with 58 days or less deferral, 1903 is offered
        – with 59 days or more deferral, 1809 is offered

        the seeking behavior has no effect

        4 users thanked author for this post.
        • #1876415 Reply
          woody
          Da Boss

          I assume you have “Semi-Annual Channel” specified.

          The 58/59-day cutoff matches what PKCano saw with the 1803-to-1809 upgrade.

          And I’m relieved to hear that we’re getting the kinder, gentler “Download and install now” upgrade. That goes a long way toward reducing the sting of having a product that hits EOL in November getting upgraded four months early.

          3 users thanked author for this post.
          • #1876418 Reply
            abbodi86
            AskWoody_MVP

            Yes, SAC

            if the user don’t have KB4499183 (OS Build 17134.799) or later installed, the upgrades will be pushed straight

            • #1876423 Reply
              PKCano
              Da Boss

              That’s the May 21st Preview. So if they are using SAC and WU, they have to be patched through June Patch Tues. to avoid upgrade.

              1 user thanked author for this post.
              • #1876434 Reply
                woody
                Da Boss

                Is that “avoid” — or is it “if you’re patched through June, you’ll be asked politely if you want to upgrade”?

                3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #1876441 Reply
          Tex265
          AskWoody Plus

          abbodi86,

          Are you using Group Policy settings?

          Do you have Group Policy > Windows Updater set to 2 (Notify to download updates)?

          Windows 10 Pro x64 v1909 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 (RIP)
          • #1876554 Reply
            abbodi86
            AskWoody_MVP

            Yes, but i don’t think that affect “Download and install now” part

      • #1876419 Reply
        zero2dash
        AskWoody Lounger

        1803 Pro
        June updates installed (nothing from July)
        SAC
        120 day feature deferral
        14 day quality deferral

        If I change feature deferral to 0 days, I am offered 1809 install.
        No matter what, I’m not being offered 1903.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #1876591 Reply
          zero2dash
          AskWoody Lounger

          To follow up:
          It looks like 112 days is the key figure here, as that is when 1809 moved to SAC.
          If I change the feature update deferral to 0-112 days, I am offered 1809.
          113 days or more, I am offered nothing.

          Looks like any systems out there with the 120 day deferral recommended by MS and Woody will update to 1809 next Friday 7/26.

          In order to be offered 1903, I have to change Branch Readiness Level to Semi-Annual Channel (Targeted). Then, I am offered 1903. It looks like the SAC setting will indeed stick as MS says, until we go to 1903. Then the picture will get a bit more muddy once again.

          Source: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/release-information/

          2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1876430 Reply
        WildBill
        AskWoody Plus

        I’m waiting for 1909… once Woody & the other MVP’s declare it Ready for Prime Time. Currently on Win8.1 Home, but if 1903’s “pause updates for 7 days” works satisfactory, I’m considering upgrading to Win10 Home 1909. AKA “1903 Service Pack”… 3 pauses would give me 21 days & enough time to let the CU bugs shake out. BTW, is Pro still worth the extra $100 for someone who doesn’t plan to run a small business from their computer? & does 1903 Pro still allow quality & feature deferrals?! Deferring updates was the only reason I ever considered Pro. Thanks to PKCano & abbodi86 for the 58/59-day cutoff tip! As far as stability with Win10, looks like it’s getting there… & updating once a year to yyH2 AKA “Fall Update” AKA “yyH1 Service Pack” will help.

        Windows 8.1, 64-bit, back in Group A... & leaning toward Windows 10 V2004. As long as it's a Lot Less Buggy!
        Wild Bill Rides Again...

        • #1876435 Reply
          woody
          Da Boss

          As of Win10 1903, I wouldn’t spend $100 for Pro, unless you need one of the Pro features.

          The main impetus for spending the extra money — keeping the %$#@! updates off your machine — is mitigated somewhat by Pause updates.

          2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #1876446 Reply
            Tex265
            AskWoody Plus

            Pro also has the Group Policy settings for controlling Updates and many other Windows functions. (Unless 1903 has nullified those?)

            Windows 10 Pro x64 v1909 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 (RIP)
            • #1876584 Reply
              woody
              Da Boss

              Pro also has the Group Policy settings for controlling Updates and many other Windows functions. (Unless 1903 has nullified those?)

              That’s precisely the problem. Microsoft hasn’t documented how the 1903 settings interact with each other, and how the 1809 settings do or do not interact with the pushed update. I’m trying to, uh, reverse engineer it by seeing what happens in the real world.

              3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1876449 Reply
        Tex265
        AskWoody Plus

        Patched thru June

        With SAC

        Feature deferred 365 days

        Quality deferred 0 days

        Group Policy > Windows Updater set at 2

        I receive the following on my Win10 v1803 Windows Update screen:

        “You’re currently running a version of windows that’s nearing the end of support. We recommend you update to the most recent version of Windows 10 now to get the latest features and security improvements.”

        Windows 10 Pro x64 v1909 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 (RIP)
        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #1876450 Reply
          PKCano
          Da Boss

          Show us a picture because that’s not all that’s there.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #1876461 Reply
            Tex265
            AskWoody Plus

            Show us a picture because that’s not all that’s there.

            Well, yeah it is just that paragraph in regards to an update notification change. Due to my settings and I hide the monthly CU until the Defcon rating of 3 or more, I get notified daily regarding defender updates.

            When Windows auto updates each day (due to my Group Setting) the WU screen shows the Defender update(s), the Download button and the above paragraph. After Download the paragraph usually goes away after me closing the WU window (unfortunately like I did).

            (For clarity, this is not the only wording on the entire WU screen. It still also contains the exact same wording that I always had on the WU screen with v1803 before the June update, but this paragraph is now additional wording under the Download button).

            So what else do you think should be there?

            How do I take and attach a picture for next time?  Probably tomorrow when auto update comes around again.

            Windows 10 Pro x64 v1909 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 (RIP)
          • #1876496 Reply
            PKCano
            Da Boss

            You’re information would be worth a whole lot more if it was complete.

            1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #1876514 Reply
              Tex265
              AskWoody Plus

              So what else do you think should be there?
              How do I take and attach a picture for next time? Probably tomorrow when auto update comes around again.

              I’ve tried to verbalize what my WU screen looks like since I wont be able to get a screen print (if you advise me how) until tomorrow.

              Basically my WU screen looks like we are familiar with before the May preview/June CU except after the auto updater runs and shows me an update is available (and the Download button due to Group Policy 2 setting), the screen adds the Paragraph directly below the Download button:

              “You’re currently running a version of windows that’s nearing the end of support. We recommend you update to the most recent version of Windows 10 now to get the latest features and security improvements.”

              Also as stated, the downloads are defender updates and once I select the Download button and they install and I close the WU screen, the paragraph goes away until next auto update happens.

              Windows 10 Pro x64 v1909 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 (RIP)
            • #1876524 Reply
              Tex265
              AskWoody Plus

              Completely forgot that I took this screen shot awhile back. Hope it shows up.

              This is what I see with each automatic WUdate, then the paragraph goes away after selecting the “Download” button or in this case the “Restart Now” button,and upon closing the WU screen till next time.

              (Note since this screen shot was after a CU update install, the button shows “Restart Now” vs showing “Download” which shows up for pending updates).

               

              Screenshot-1

               

              Windows 10 Pro x64 v1909 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 (RIP)
              Attachments:
              • #1876529 Reply
                PKCano
                Da Boss

                So back in June, with SAC, 365, 0, you were being offered the June CU. That was before MS said they were going to start pushing 1903 this week. We are wondering what you are being offered NOW.

              • #1876531 Reply
                Tex265
                AskWoody Plus

                We are wondering what you are being offered NOW.

                On July 9th I was offered KB4507435 the July CU which I hid with wushowhide, and the MSRT which I installed.

                Every day since, the auto WU provides defender def updates which generates the “Download” button and the discussion new paragraph.

                Nothing else appears or happens.

                After I hit “Download” and the defender defs install and I close the WU screen the paragraph disappears until next time.

                Maybe something to do with the Group Policy WU = 2 setting?

                Windows 10 Pro x64 v1909 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 (RIP)
      • #1876497 Reply
        E Pericoloso Sporgersi
        AskWoody Plus

        No. But …

        See my posts

        #1868190

        and also

        #1875571

        Ever since October 2015 (When I installed Win 10/64 H from a USB stick) I restored an image 1 single time somewhere early 2017. Not because of a failed update, but because I drowned my system with a dumb mistake of my own devising.

        Cheers,

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #1876522 Reply
        MikeMc
        AskWoody Lounger

        I’ve been doing fresh installs on all of my computers with Win 10 1809 Pro. Last weekend I did a complete install on my oldest CAD Workstation. After the OS was installed and fully updated, 1903 was offered.

        Next I installed Office 2013 Pro plus MS Project Pro 2013 and Visio Pro 2013. At this point, the 1903 updated was no longer being offered. It appears that Office 2013 is a show stopper for 1903.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1876527 Reply
        mcbsys
        AskWoody Plus

        “Microsoft officially started pushing Win10 1803 machines onto version 1903 two days ago. Apparently the push doesn’t respect your Pro settings to “defer feature updates.” At least, that’s what’s been promised.”

        I found the announcement of pushing the update here. Where is the “promise” that it will ignore deferrals?

        “– with 58 days or less deferral, 1903 is offered
        – with 59 days or more deferral, 1809 is offered”

        According to the official release doc, 1903 went semi-annual on May 21, 2019, 58 days ago. So deferrals are working exactly as expected.

        Seems like the news is that Microsoft has lifted a forced deferral of 1903? Sort of like it used to do when it declared a release “ready for business”?

        3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #1876563 Reply
          woody
          Da Boss

          The changing terminology – and abandoning a setting that’s still in the 1803 UI – is very confusing to me, but it looks like you’re right.

          3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1876536 Reply
        jomargon
        AskWoody Lounger

        Are you being pushed from Win10 1803 to 1903? Tell me about it

        Greetings from Spain. I’m in version 1809.17763.593 and for more than a month I have the announcement, that I can download “when it suits me” the new version of Windows 1903, it goes without saying that at the moment, I have no intention of downloading or installing it, but here begins the good, as I am pushed sindo to install it, then no more and no less than to connect the computer and start session, opens the default browser announcing me from a Microsoft page that there is already a new version of Windows, with all the “advantages and too much propaganda of the new version” this morning has appeared to me, sorry not to have made a screenshot, as I’m sure I’ll appear more times, I’ll make the capture so you can see what’s going to “push” Microsoft.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #1876542 Reply
        PKCano
        Da Boss

        Version 1803 Build 17134.829 – Up to date June Patch Tues. As of 7/18/2019.
        GUI settings: SAC, Feature deferral = 365, Quality deferral = 0
        Group Policy settings: Automatic Updates = Enabled, value 2
        It appears to be respecting the deferrals – I am not offered either 1809 or 1903.
        Wushowhide showed before updating:
        Screen-Shot-2019-07-18-at-10.47.25-AM

        GUI settings:
        Screen-Shot-2019-07-18-at-11.10.44-AM

        Windows Update offered:
        Screen-Shot-2019-07-18-at-11.26.18-AM

        Attachments:
        5 users thanked author for this post.
        • #1876561 Reply
          abbodi86
          AskWoody_MVP

          Indeed, i stand correct to my post earlier

          – with 248 days or more deferral, no feature updates is offered for 1803

          3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #1876606 Reply
          Steve S.
          AskWoody Plus

          See what’s new in the latest update — https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4043948/windows-10-whats-new-in-recent-updates

          This page actually dis-incentivizes me to upgrade to 1903. Lots of window dressing (pun intended) that is of little to no use in my scenario. And much of it seems aimed at herding users further into the MS Borg mother ship. Plus it appears to take away even more of my choices to defer updates/upgrades.  I prefer local control of my computer and data, local backups and local drive images. I also try to use as close to best-of-class desktop programs and utilities and not rely on one single “walled garden” provider. YMMV

          Is there a list or description of substantial/meaningful changes in 1903?

          Win7 Pro x64(Group B), Win10 Pro x64 1909, Win10 Home 1909, Linux Mint + a cat with 'tortitude'.

      • #1876555 Reply
        NetDef
        AskWoody_MVP

        Here’s a consistent representation of my small group of test machines on 1803-Pro-x64:

        All are fully patched as of today (past their update deferral range) but are held back via the UI settings for feature updates, which are set at 364 days plus SAC (Business ready).

        1803testws014_WU_Settings

        Deliberate seeker behavior (I pushed the button!) results in “You’re up to date” without a direct UI button that offers to install 1809 or 1903.

        w101803pro_364def_bb

         

        However, I am being offered links on that page enticing me to manually upgrade.  Those two links lead to the following pages:

        Learn More — https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/13853/windows-lifecycle-fact-sheet

        See what’s new in the latest update — https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4043948/windows-10-whats-new-in-recent-updates

        The current build number on these machines is V 1803 — OS Build 17134.885.

         

        1803testws014

         

        ~ Group "Weekend" ~

        Attachments:
        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #1876560 Reply
          PKCano
          Da Boss

          What you are seeing would agree with what I am seeing. See post above.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #1876565 Reply
            Tex265
            AskWoody Plus

            What you are seeing would agree with what I am seeing. See post above

            Not quite the same.  My settings and build .829 are same as yours, but on your WU home screen you show a “Stay up to date” paragraph that I don’t have.

            I don’t show that but I do show the below paragraph which you don’t show:

            “You’re currently running a version of windows that’s nearing the end of support. We recommend you update to the most recent version of Windows 10 now to get the latest features and security improvements.”’

            And NetDef poster above shows BOTH of our paragraphs.

            Windows 10 Pro x64 v1909 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 (RIP)
      • #1876562 Reply
        woody
        Da Boss

        Sunuvagun. Maybe Microsoft is going to approach this gingerly.

        What a change!

        3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #1876594 Reply
          zero2dash
          AskWoody Lounger

          See my edit above – it looks like the SAC vs. SAC(T) switch in 1803 is the magic one here.
          If I change to SAC(T), I’m offered 1903.
          With it set to SAC, I’m offered 1809.
          This is assuming deferrals are set to a period that has x amount of days from here (https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/release-information/).

          Next Friday 7/26 will be the mass 1803 > 1809 upgrade for most of us AW followers who follow MS and your advice, Woody (with 120 day feature deferrals). You may want to put an APB out a day or two ahead of time for everyone to backup their machines, if they don’t already.

          2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1876567 Reply
        bobcat5536
        AskWoody Plus

        A couple of weeks ago , I followed PKCano’s instructions for going directly from 1803 to 1809, skipping 1903. I have had no problems here and I set my Group Policy the same as I had it in 1803. I have not had 1903 offered at all. I set the Feature update defer setting to 365. I’m liking 1809 better than ever, because I have software that has never worked with any version of Windows 10 since 1511 that is working perfectly with 1809.

        • This reply was modified 8 months, 3 weeks ago by bobcat5536.
      • #1876592 Reply
        Speccy
        AskWoody Lounger

        A recently upgraded (from v1709) system I’m managing is currently a beta testing v1803 machine (build 17134.885 [KB4507435 – July 9, 2019]): so far, so good (no pushed offers here).

        Group Policy defined deferrals in place:
        -SAC
        -Feature deferral: 200 days
        -Quality deferral: 30 days
        -Preview builds disabled
        -Do not allow update deferral policies to cause scans against Windows Update (*)

        (*) The last one might be particularly important: Susan Bradley pointed out that if this policy is disabled or undefined, the Windows Update client might initiate automatic scans against WU even if update deferral policies are enabled

        Attachments:
      • #1876599 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        Not forced to 1903 this morning
        Whenever it happens I turn on Metered “on” as fast I can (I have a slow bandwidth) so have managed to stay on 1709 until June.

        1803 Pro
        SAC – not sure; whatever Woody recommends
        365 day feature deferral
        30 day quality deferral

        Metered Connection – “on” so download don’t start downloading
        Pause is grayed out; otherwise I will set it to pause on

        I have my own version of Group B
        WUShowHide to identify the patches
        manually download and patch when the Patch Lady says there are good, [May patches downloaded an d instally, but 2 June patches were manual]
        manually un-install KB4023057

        Have not tried 1803 Home in the last 2 days

      • #1876618 Reply
        abbodi86
        AskWoody_MVP

        My apologies for the inconsistent info before, i was not aware (or actually forgot) that UUP dump API only check against Semi Annual Channel Targeted (BranchReadinessLevel=CB)

        i re-did the tests on actual Windows 10 Pro 1803 this time, updated with KB4499183 (17134.799)
        and thanks to @zero2dash for confirming

        with Semi Annual Channel Targeted “CB”:
        – no deferral (0 days), 1903 is offered
        – 1 to 58 days, 1903 is offered
        – 59 to 247 days, 1809 is offered
        – 248 to 365 days, no feature update is offered

        with Semi Annual Channel “CBB”:
        – no deferral (0 days), no feature update is offered
        – 1 to 112 days, 1809 is offered
        – 113 to 365 days, no feature update is offered

        interestingly enough, the “Download and install now” behavior is not available anymore, whenever a feature update is offered (1903 or 1809), it’s pushed



        regarding the notice that appear in WU page “You’re currently running a version of windows that’s nearing the end of support….”
        that’s caused and displayed by Update Notification Manager, which is built-in since version 1803 or 1807 (was delivered to 1607 via update KB4013214)

        to get rid of that notice, simply delete this folder (it’s not locked)
        "C:\Program Files\UNP"

        3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #1876619 Reply
          woody
          Da Boss

          the “Download and install now” behavior is not available anymore

          Ouch.

          1903 is offered

          Let me make sure I understand this. Win10 1803 Pro with SAC-T and no deferral means that clicking “Check for updates” starts the 1903 upgrade process?

          What if you don’t click “Check for updates”?

          • #1876637 Reply
            abbodi86
            AskWoody_MVP

            Correct

            in my tests there were no difference, i get 1903 (or 1809) with or without seeking

            any tool or script used for scanning other than clicking “Check for updates” is non-seeker
            this include the detection checks that the system perform

            1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #1877887 Reply
              EP
              AskWoody_MVP

              I have been able to confirm this, abbodi86 & woody (even on a test machine running Win10 v1803 enterprise x64 edition)

              v1903 gets offered when in the SAC-T channel for v1803
              v1809 gets offered instead of 1903 after changing to the SAC channel on v1803

              I used WUMT (windows update minitool) to check for updates when conducting those tests

              • This reply was modified 8 months, 3 weeks ago by EP.
      • #1876707 Reply
        Susan Bradley
        AskWoody MVP

        I think I may have hit my deferral window.  But I got 1809 on this Win10 1803 version being pushed.

        Susan Bradley Patch Lady

        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1876746 Reply
        mn–
        AskWoody Lounger

        with Semi Annual Channel “CBB”:
        – no deferral (0 days), no feature update is offered
        – 1 to 112 days, 1809 is offered
        – 113 to 365 days, no feature update is offered

        (emphasis added)

        Yeah, that seems to match what I’ve seen too. Set deferral to 0 in that branch and 1803 is reported to be up to date…

        Which is less than optimal, given that the third-party solution for update management we use only intercepts stuff after that point.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #1876856 Reply
        JLamede
        Guest

        Interesting! For info: faced with the fact that my long-maintained 1709 was no longer being supported, yesterday I deliberately moved to upgrade to 1803, using wusohowhide first for safety’s sake. What actually happened was that WU went straight to 1809 (though it hadn’t shown up on running wusohowhide). The whole process took five-and-a-half hours(!), but I’m now running 1809 without any obvious problems other than a slightly slower machine at this stage, though it’s early days yet. I have, though,  uninstalled the newly installed Win10 Update app, and as yet am not being pushed into 1903. Curious…….?

      • #1876940 Reply
        davinci953
        AskWoody Plus

        See my post here. I’m currently on 1809 build 17763.557.

      • #1877013 Reply
        woody
        Da Boss

        I have a couple of tweets from @ITTechDavid who says…

        I’m on Windows 10 Home 1803. This is in the Windows Update panel:

        So we do have an in-the-wild report of the “Download and install now” link.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #1877241 Reply
          woody
          Da Boss

          According to @alqamar:

          Yes Woody that’s the standard now on 1803 and 1809 when everything is by default settings. Dunno if they backported it to 1709 since it’s out of support. Except the happening to Upload issue it’s a clean process and very good release so far

          So “Download and install now” appears on 1803 and 1809 (Pro and Home) systems with default Windows Update settings?

          Can anybody corroborate?

          • #1877235 Reply
            Alex5723
            AskWoody Plus

            “Download and install now” link

            For how long can you ‘block’ the “Download and install now” link before it installs forcibly ? Until 1803 EOL ? Until 1903 EOL ?

            • #1877239 Reply
              woody
              Da Boss

              Excellent question. I don’t know. I don’t know if anyone knows.

          • #1877657 Reply
            abbodi86
            AskWoody_MVP

            My tests were on Pro with default settings (except the “Notify to download” policy), and it’s not there

            it was there in 1803 when i checked KB4499183 back in May, but not now
            and still there in 1809 and 1903

            1709 and 1703 did not get that enhanced module
            as matter of fact, on SAC (CBB) with deferral, both still get 1809 or 1803
            and on SAC-T (CB), they get 1903 or 1809 or 1803, based on deferral days

            1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #1878174 Reply
              woody
              Da Boss

              I’m not seeing “Download and install now” – but there seems to be some simple combination that brings it out.

              Experiments continue. Thanks for the report!

      • #1877014 Reply
        JimmyLawson
        AskWoody Plus

        I am a retired 75 year old electronics engineering tech. I used to maintain all types of systems. I am a windows 10 Home user with two desktop pcs that I upgraded from windows 7 Home Premium. My comments are for the average windows 10 home user, that, a lot of people say has to take what ever microsoft pushes out to them, ie; no fine grained os control.

        Since my upgrade to windows 10 Home, I have have had very little to no problems at all on either of my machines. I have both of them setup to let windows handle and take care of itself. A year ago I purchased a new X370 motherboard and Ryzen cpu, went with a newly purchased windows 10 Home product key. It installed properly on PCIe NVMe M.2 ssd as uefi on gpt, all needed drivers with 3 local accounts, 1 admin, 2 standard. It has taken care of all three user accounts with any program, utility or standalone installs. It has politely offered to install a few items it thought might be helpful to me, but left me alone when I declined, with no farther nags. The 1st few version upgrades of windows 10 Home said they were ready to install on my pc and did so, with the exception, 1 time, it said my pc was not ready for the new update and they would let me know when it was ok to install, a couple of weeks later it installed (1803), the last install (1903) was offered, not pushed, and said I could download and install when ready. I waited a few weeks, having read articles that said I should wait. Windows 10 Home, during this time, did not try to forcefully install, just always had the message I could download and install when ready. I finally told it to go ahead with the (1909) install. It did and every thing is running fine, the only problem it had was with Edge browser not working. In about a days time, it notified me that the system had a problem and would take care of it. Shortly there after Edge browser is working fine and everything else.
        On my second pc, older 890 motherboard BIOS MBR 250gb hdd windows 7 upgraded to windows 10 with digital license. Made a system image with windows 10 recovery tools and saved to storage hdd. Purchased 250gb ssd, installed and did a windows 10 system image recovery to new ssd, rebooted and everything running fine on new ssd BIOS MBR. Windows 10 Home still taking care of itself. Purchased new X470 uefi motherboard with Ryzen cpu and new DDR4 ram, used the Windows 10 Home 250gb bios mbr ssd. Booted and windows 10 Home (1809) detected everything and installed all new drivers. Everything running ok with windows telling me I need to reactivate. Reactivation process told me that my hardware had changed in my Windows 10 Home digital license, ask to verify my original windows 7 upgrade license key, input the key code. Windows 10 Home (1809) validated and acitvated with digital license. Windows 10 Home (1903) offered for download and install (not pushed), waited several days then allowed it to download and install Windows 10 Home (1903). Every thing running fine on new os update except as with my other machine, Edge Browser not working. Shortly there after windows said it detected a problem and would try to repair it. After its repairs, Edge browser working fine. Windows 10 Home still setup to take care of itself. Since I had new uefi motherboard, I used windows 10 home (1903) tools to convert the 250gb ssd bios mbr windows drive to uefi gpt. Conversion process completed properly and booted into windows 10 Home (1903) 250gb uefi gpt ssd. Everything is running smooth on both of my upgraded desktops even after major hardware upgrades and windows is still taking care of itself.

        I have used Microsoft OS since DOS 1.0 and I have used Linux and IBM, they are all good OS. I am on the internet a lot, I do FB, forums, purchases, family history research, photo work and various other things on my desktops and the internet. I used to tweak my systems a lot and run various programs for security. These days windows and other operating systems have matured so much that they can pretty much take care of their self. There will always be some upsets with some hardware and software (mostly older), but I think for most of the average windows 10 Home users (like me) you will be ok to let windows take care of itself and don’t feel left out just because you are not on windows 10 pro or other os. My 2 desktops are doing just fine. LOL, I’ve also followed Brian Livingston and Woody’s articles and posts starting years ago. They are two, good, and very informed fellows.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #1877041 Reply
        RangerVic
        AskWoody Lounger

        Windows 10-1903 Breaks one of our applications.

        I have machines at 1809 telling me that 1903 is ready to download.
        The problem is that I have an application that is starting to cause problems before the download. And when you download and update, the application breaks.

        I did a new install of Windows 10 – 1903 – 18362.239 and then installed the application and it breaks.
        I tried compatibility options and trouble shooter but this does not fix the problem.
        The forced update will break the application for 60 people.
        Below is the error.
        Not good at all, application that has been running on Win 10 all this time is now breaking.

        Win10Error

        Attachments:
        • #1877889 Reply
          EP
          AskWoody_MVP

          contact the maker of the application, tell the creator about the problem with 1903 so that the maker of the app could issue an update

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #1879903 Reply
            RangerVic
            AskWoody Lounger

            Thank you, but that is not an option for us. The vendor updated the application a while back and removed features that we needed. So we were stuck on this version and it was working without issues. 1903 breaks the application, I am going to trace and see what I find.

        • #1880180 Reply
          Speccy
          AskWoody Lounger

          Your legacy 32-bit ‘?????.exe’ application seems to be using the deprecated clCreateCommandQueue() function (that has been replaced by clCreateCommandQueueWithProperties() on OpenCL 2.0) from the external OpenCL library, which is missing (system-wide) but the binary should be able to use it if you place it at the same directory.

          Try to get the valid v1.x ‘OpenCL.dll‘ library from the vendor’s media, or find it in your system

          dir /b /s /a G:\OpenCL.dll

          (see the file Properties>Details, File version should read “1.x.x.x”, ideally “1.2.x.x”)

          and copy it to the binary’s directory (G:\v22\Programs).

          NOTE: Although this little tweak might (hopefully) do the trick, keep in mind that malware might also take advantage of that very same technique (see DLL planting).

      • #1877704 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        I have a Dell 8930 running Win 10 Home.  In mid-June, I used an ISO to upgrade from v1803 to v1809. It took a couple of hours but all appeared to be OK.

        A few days later, the “Download and install now” button appeared for v1903.

        The same screen shows that Update has not called home since 05 July.  Defender claims the same.  I will ignore both messages.  I am not going to press the button…

        • #1877711 Reply
          Alex5723
          AskWoody Plus

          I will ignore both messages.  I am not going to press the button…

          So what have you done with July CU for 1809 ?

      • #1877911 Reply
        RickKimes
        AskWoody Lounger

        I’m running W10 pro on an older Dell XPS desktop.  My problem is I never hear any talk about “how” to update when all updates constantly fail. I want to update but can’t.  I’m running 1803, which was the last successful update without issues. I’ve spent countless hours with Microsoft support taking control of my desktop, each time telling me it’ll work now, and each time I get the same fail to update. I’ve tried no less than 15 times using ALL the tricks and suggestions I’ve read to no avail. I had one Microsoft support tech on chat tell me my computer can’t run Windows 10.  I’ve had windows 10 since it was released with absolutely no problems until the October 2018 update.  Now, I’m forced to try every 35 days, then it fails, reloads w10 to 1803 and I’m back up and running after 2 hours of waisted time. Then I can go to to update and defer for 35 days until it all starts again…..  I believe I’m being forced to buy a newer computer, which I refuse to do out of principle. My computer works perfectly.  Is there anything else I can do?  Extremely frustrated for a long time.

        • #1878126 Reply
          Paul T
          AskWoody MVP

          Have you tried downloading the update using the Windows Media Creation Tool, then applying the update from that?

          cheers, Paul

          1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #1878183 Reply
          Alex5723
          AskWoody Plus

          My computer works perfectly.  Is there anything else I can do?  Extremely frustrated for a long time.

          As your are using 1803 Microsoft will forcibly push you to 1903 whether you want or not. The best option for now, if you want to block 1903 is to upgrade to 1809. You can download ISO for 1809 and run an in-place upgrade (take a full backup before the upgrade).

          You can download the ISO files using HeiDoc.net : https://www.heidoc.net/joomla/technology-science/microsoft/67-microsoft-windows-and-office-iso-download-tool

          • This reply was modified 8 months, 3 weeks ago by Alex5723.
          • This reply was modified 8 months, 3 weeks ago by PKCano.
      • #1878331 Reply
        PKCano
        Da Boss

        I upgraded the Office computer from 1803 to 1809 on 7/20 (still too many horror tales for 1903).
        I started by updating 1803 through the July updates. With settings at SAC and Feature deferral = 365, I was only offered the July CU and the rest of the July patches (no push to 1903). Then I cleaned up (CCleaner and disk cleanup). backed up User data, and made an full disk image.

        The original settings were SAC, 365, and 0. Had to hide h/w drivers, Intel microcode patches and KB…057 (“reset your settings and upgrade you” patch) with wushowhide, then clear the WU queue.
        I did the upgrade by setting the Feature deferral to 114 days (could have used 115 on 7/20). I was offered Feature Update to 1809 (still no sign of 1903). The upgrade seems to have gone without a hitch.

        After the upgrade:
        + Had to turn System Protection back on.
        + Had to run through the Settings app and readjust a few.
        + They have custom settings in the Trusted Zone in IE11 for the check reader/banking operations – these had to be reset again.
        + There was no “download and install now” offer for 1903 when I checked after the upgrade – will look again today.
        + Reset the Feature deferral back to 365 (it’s still there in 1809)

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #1882718 Reply
          Tex265
          AskWoody Plus

          The upgrade seems to have gone without a hitch.

          PK, previously you had suggested that after a feature download and install that you should disconnect from the internet before performing a restart, then after the restart check all your setting, re-connect to the internet and restart again.

          Did you do that with this upgrade?

          I’m still deciding if going from 1803 to 1809 for the limited time left is worth the hassel or holding on tight and going to 1903.

          Windows 10 Pro x64 v1909 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 (RIP)
          • #1882763 Reply
            PKCano
            Da Boss

            This was a business computer, not a personal computer. For that reason, I did not disconnect after the download before the restart, but I did put it on Metered connections. And I did not take the Metered connections off until I had rechecked all the settings.

      • #1879843 Reply
        AlexEiffel
        AskWoody_MVP

        I was on 1709, got upgraded to 1803 patched to July.

        SAC, 365, 6.

        Good thing is it went fast and to my surprise I didn’t get web searches activated. I guess it is because my Cortana consent was already off.

        I didn’t need to reactivate system protection, it was already on.

        I had to go to privacy settings to fix a few new settings for which no consent was asked.

        I clicked on check for updates multiple times and got nothing new after an intel microcode patch and two Adobe ones. Just that my system is up to date.

        I didn’t go through all the things that changed yet, just a quick look.

        I didn’t get annoyed by Microsoft telling me I need to leave 1803. I can’t complain much. I started seeing more relevant local search results at last (I don’t need to click on the filter no more to see my searches because I don’t use the standard Microsoft folders and maybe because I am on ReFS for my data disks). That makes me very happy.

         

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #1879922 Reply
        zero2dash
        AskWoody Lounger

        I ended up changing my deferrals from 120 to 365…I just don’t want to bother with upgrading at the end of this week. 1803 has been rock solid, same as 1703 and 1709.

        Is 1809 ready for prime time yet? I have my doubts – after all, they’ve pulled it and started pushing people to double-upgrade (if their settings are not set up).

        • #1879957 Reply
          EP
          AskWoody_MVP

          1809 now in mid-2019 is much more stable than the 1809 version back in late 2018

          2 users thanked author for this post.
          woody, b
        • #1880115 Reply
          Alex5723
          AskWoody Plus

          I ended up changing my deferrals from 120 to 365…

          Microsoft doesn’t care and won’t honor your 1803 deferrals.
          Microsoft will push 1903 when the AI will decide its time and it can be tomorrow or next week…

          • #1880181 Reply
            zero2dash
            AskWoody Lounger

            They already are honoring the deferrals, it’s been tested many times above (including by myself). 1903 is not being offered to machines unless they’re on the SAC(T) branch, and mine are not. Again, this has been tested and proven above.

            For several years now, they’ve honored the deferrals. Deferrals are a part of the infrastructure used by enterprise customers and no, they’re not going to throw those aside.

            2 users thanked author for this post.
            • #1880189 Reply
              b
              AskWoody Plus

              1903 is not being offered to machines unless they’re on the SAC(T) branch, and mine are not.

              Until tomorrow:

              Windows 10 Pro Version 2004: Group ASAP (chump/pioneer)

              3 users thanked author for this post.
              • #1880190 Reply
                zero2dash
                AskWoody Lounger

                Mine are on 1803 though, not 1809.
                I wonder if they’ll stop offering 1809 on SAC and instead offer 1903 this coming Friday (with 120 day deferrals). As of now, 1803 SAC gets 1809 and 1803 SAC(T) gets 1903.

                The picture just got a bit more muddy for the next few days…

              • #1882445 Reply
                zero2dash
                AskWoody Lounger

                Sure enough, there’s a new wrinkle in the fold. @woody
                On my 1803 machines, SAC, if I change feature deferral to 0, I’m now offered 1903.
                If feature deferral is 1 day or more, I’m offered 1809.
                I would imagine as time goes on, these will move. (IE tomorrow with 1 day deferral will get 1903)

                Interesting indeed. B’s link above is true…there is no more SAC(T) starting today.

                4 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1879960 Reply
        EP
        AskWoody_MVP

        woody

        born is reporting that 1809 users will soon get the 1903 upgrade starting July 23

        https://borncity.com/win/2019/07/22/windows-10-v1809-upgrade-to-v1903-on-july-23-2019/

        time for 1809 users to get those WU deferral options working if they don’t want the 1903 upgrade

        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1880117 Reply
        WSegordonjr
        AskWoody Plus

        I am currently on Win10 1803 on my 3 Windows machines.  Would I be better off moving to 1809 than playing Russian Roulette with the 1903 forced update?

        • #1880121 Reply
          PKCano
          Da Boss

          Making any move, when you initiate it, is better than getting a surprise (IMHO).

      • #1882425 Reply
        Tchalms
        AskWoody Plus

        Can someone post a link to the right way to go from 1803 to 1809?

        I had an 1803 Pro system and I wanted to install 1809. I thought I was doing it right, but it installed 1903. I posted that story here: https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/has-the-1809-download-been-removed-i-cant-find-it-anymore/

         

         

      • #1884220 Reply
        wavy
        AskWoody Plus

        Is today the day all the new Beta Testing starts??
        😐

        🍻

        Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.
      • #1885278 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        What about people on Windows 10 home 1803 or so? When will they be pushed to 1903?

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #1896777 Reply
          woody
          Da Boss

          Yes. It’s only a question of when and how.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #1896551 Reply
        NorD
        AskWoody Lounger

        Dell laptop, Win10 Home 1803, OS build = 17134.885

        Went on a 7 day road trip, came home yesterday and Win10 1903 is already downloaded waiting for me to reboot. System uses wired ethernet with “metered” enabled. Have not done a manual reboot to trigger 1903 upgrade with random gratuitous changes.

        On a different laptop, also Win10 Home 1803, I did a manual 1903 upgrade before my trip to avoid dealing with a W10 upgrade while on the road. This was more annoying, W10 only showed 1809 upgrade, no option for 1903. Did upgrade to 1809 then W10-update said 1903 ready, did 2nd upgrade to 1903 with no problems. “Bah Humbug” and many other NSFW words apply.

        Attachments:
        2 users thanked author for this post.
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