• Betanews: Microsoft is disgustingly sneaky: Windows 10 isn't an operating system, it's an advertising platform

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    #100682

    Mark Wilson just posted an interesting rant on the Betanews site: Microsoft is disgustingly sneaky: Windows 10 isn’t an operating system, it’s an adve[See the full post at: Betanews: Microsoft is disgustingly sneaky: Windows 10 isn’t an operating system, it’s an advertising platform]

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    • #100683

      Arghh…. Just stop whining and stop using it :). That’s the only way to make MS think.

      Antec P7 Silent * Corsair RM550x * ASUS TUF GAMING B560M-PLUS * Intel Core i5-11400F * 4 x 8 GB G.Skill Aegis DDR4 3200 MHz CL16 * Sapphire Radeon 6700 10GB * XPG GAMMIX S70 BLADE 1TB * SanDisk Ultra 3D 1TB * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Windows 10 Pro 22H2 64-bit
      • #100692

        And just who is going to do that? Consumers could go elsewhere, they have a choice. Enterprise, industry and small business with Windows-only applications have an umbilical cord that keeps them firmly attached to mother. MS can feed them what ever pablum it produces. As long as these clients just throw tantrums when Microsoft does something that they do not like, Microsoft just hands out the lollies and says ‘there, there’.

        I do not find the linked article is whining about Microsoft’s strategy, as it is not feeble or petulant. It speaks to the dilution of a Windows desktop OS. It is clear that Microsoft no longer wants the flagship OS to not deliver on a single purpose and because of that is quickly losing its value.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #100778

          Just stay on 8.1 – that’ll give MS 6 years to think what they’ve don wrong. I like Windows myself very much and after a few trials with Linux I’d still be using it, but now Windows 10.

          Antec P7 Silent * Corsair RM550x * ASUS TUF GAMING B560M-PLUS * Intel Core i5-11400F * 4 x 8 GB G.Skill Aegis DDR4 3200 MHz CL16 * Sapphire Radeon 6700 10GB * XPG GAMMIX S70 BLADE 1TB * SanDisk Ultra 3D 1TB * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Windows 10 Pro 22H2 64-bit
      • #100694

        Or don’t start… It’s time to become protective of your older systems, if you haven’t already. Get the configuration into good shape, do your backups, vet the updates, make sure you keep your hardware clean and in good running order…

        They’d have pulled it off if they’d created a programming/run-time environment that really did make serious, high quality, important Apps easy to create, and the store reasonable to list software in. But there is only so much dumbing down and profiteering the world can take. Some actual substance has to be there or…

        EpicFail

        -Noel

        7 users thanked author for this post.
    • #100687

      ‘It’s time for things to change, but will Microsoft listen?’

      They might if collective forums and social media campaigns put in a petition starting from THIS forum woody 😉

       

      Win8.1/R2 Hybrid lives on...
      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #100699

        Well, OK, but what would the petition say?

        • #100711

          I’m open to suggestions from others, as I don’t use windows 10 but, ‘this has a future impact on all who are using Vista, Win7 and Win 8.1’ needs to be included in the petition.

          This needs nipped in the bud before it spirals out of control, a bit like MS at the moment!

          Win8.1/R2 Hybrid lives on...
          • #100715

            A partition is not going to change anything. A really over the top Youtube video would be more effective. They go viral on social media in a matter of seconds. All you need is a cat (psycho or miserable), a toilet plunger, 80s music track, a picture of Prez Trump on the wall in the background, and a Windows PC with a W10 ‘the last OS ever’ sticker on it, in flames.

    • #100690

      Every now and then, Microsoft pushes a little bit more to see how much users will tolerate.

      We saw that strategy during their infamous unconscionable GWX campaign.

      Unless there’s a serious backlash through the usual channels, Microsoft will keep making it worse. But, sadly for Microsoft, it gives Windows 7/8/8.1 users even more reasons to stay where they are.

      Could an “AdBlocker for Windows 10” become a killer product? Perhaps the AV companies could add that to their product. 🙂

      Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

      • #100706

        Could an “AdBlocker for Windows 10” become a killer product? Perhaps the AV companies could add that to their product. ?

        They won’t act against Microsoft. They never protected users against Microsoft’s GWX malware, so what makes you think this time will be different? I think they’re afraid of Microsoft to create such products.

        César

      • #100885

        Along the lines of an ad blocker, has anyone tested Windows 10 with a third-party product like O&O ShutUp10, to see if the ads and suggestions still keep popping up?

        -- rc primak

    • #100721

      Well it really doesent surprise me that this is the way M$ see’s as getting some cash back after all they “shelled out” on the “Win10 giveaway sale” What does surprise me how long it took to even sneak a few fairly unobtrusive, but irritating nonetheless, ad’s in. I have no doubt there’s a few computer wizz’s out there that’ll manage to circumvent the whole ad’s expierience, and/or then M$ will come out with an Ad free Premium/Ultimate/Entrepenuer (pick your own superlative) which some one will Crack or Bootleg and the whole cycle will start again “ad infinitum” or etc…
      Its entirely possible that M$ has been forced down this road due to falling retail sales on the back of the rise of the “infernal cell/mobile phone” and Business wanting to save money i.e. not playing the upgrade game every new iteration of the OS and really they arent making it any easier on Business with the updates/new ver’s twice a year fiasco and what was it the other day on Paul Thurott? ohh yeah modifying the terms of Win10Ent LTSB. “Methinks” theres a little lack of focus in Redmond.

      “Microsoft Where do you want to go to day?” errm not sure we’ll let you know when we get there.

    • #100728

      If microSoft would like another 30-year run with me, they will make a Windows 10 Work Station edition… a boring, no-nonsense and straight-forward good old-fashioned operating system free of games, “intelligence”, ads and what not…

      Since this most probably won’t happen, I’ll continue on my path to a dual system: Linux for work related stuff and Windows 7 for my two games…

      Windows 10? Will continue following the “development” via Woody’s blog, but will probably never be a user..

      4 users thanked author for this post.
    • #100727

      I’ve been saying this since the beginning. It’s rather upsetting. I don’t know why people continually let them get away with this c**p.  It’s bad enough they completely changed the entire “OS” to resemble a child’s mobile phone, and removed everything I ever liked about Windows, in one fell swoop. You couldn’t pay me good money to use 10, for too many reasons. What are those of us who need an actual desktop computer supposed to do now? I’m sorry, Linux isn’t an answer, and only because most proprietary software isn’t developed to support it. I wouldn’t use a mac even if someone gave me one for free, either.  So I’m stuck with 7, which is a great operating system, but eventually will no longer be supported by most software & have tons of security problems. I also really hate the new interfaces people are incorporating into their software, because I can no longer control how things look & am forced to stare at glaring, blinding white screens & bright colors, and I spend most of my waking hours on my computer, so that’s really damaging to my eyes. 🙁  Microsoft have seriously sold out all of their die-hard fans in a grab for what little glittery, shiny thing they had their eyes on, and will start plummeting down a hole they’ll never get out of. Without their most important users, they are going to become completely irrelevant…

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    • #100737

      it’s an advertising platform

      A bit like Betanews and this site then?

      • #100738

        HA! Touche.

        Unfortunately, I don’t have any way to charge enterprises for volume licenses or software assurance.

        But I sleep well at night. I don’t have to stick any ads on Start menus, File Explorer, the Lock screen, or Share panes – and when I put a tile on the site to download Candy Crush Soda Saga, well, you can just shoot me.

        7 users thanked author for this post.
        • #100750

          On the other hand, you implore us at the top of every page to turn off our ad blocker, whereas Microsoft tells us how to disable advertising within Windows 10.

          And the “feature notifications” which everyone and their dog is now having hissy fits about was the ONLY change in build 14901 released a full seven months ago:

          What’s new in Build 14901
          Improving Product Education: As part of an effort to explore new ways of educating our customers on features in Windows 10 – we are testing out new notifications within File Explorer. They’re designed to help customers by providing quick, easy information about things they can do or new features they can try to have a better experience with Windows 10. If you want to opt out of these notifications, you can do so by unchecking ‘Show sync provider notifications’ from the Options menu in the File Explorer View tab.

          https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2016/08/11/announcing-windows-10-insider-preview-build-14901-for-pc

          So, nothing “disgustingly sneaky” about it at all really. But suddenly it’s news because someone woke up and noticed. And it’s apparently a slow month for any real Windows news.

          • #100765

            Hey b, I’m going to come right out and ask:

            Are you paid by Microsoft to promote their software?

            If not paid directly, do you have a financial investment in Microsoft?

            These are questions that come to my mind almost every time I read what you’ve written, because your point of view seems pretty different from what most folks – beginners and experienced alike – appear to feel.

            -Noel

            5 users thanked author for this post.
            • #100791

              These are questions that come to my mind almost every time I read what you’ve written, because your point of view seems pretty different from what most folks – beginners and experienced alike – appear to feel. -Noel

              MVP status is supposed to be balanced and neutral..FAIL!

              Win8.1/R2 Hybrid lives on...
            • #100792

              I may not be MVP, but I’d ask exactly the same questions…

              Antec P7 Silent * Corsair RM550x * ASUS TUF GAMING B560M-PLUS * Intel Core i5-11400F * 4 x 8 GB G.Skill Aegis DDR4 3200 MHz CL16 * Sapphire Radeon 6700 10GB * XPG GAMMIX S70 BLADE 1TB * SanDisk Ultra 3D 1TB * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Windows 10 Pro 22H2 64-bit
              1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #100809

              Neither.

              2 users thanked author for this post.
            • #100841

              Neither.

              Then you are to be commended for your optimism. I frankly can’t see much but deception in their current moves.

              Have you been involved in the pre-release program a long time? I lost a lot of my optimism when early feedback (I’m talking even about during the Windows 8 previews) was utterly ignored. They claimed they wanted the public’s input, but all it turned out to be was a marketing gimmick. I know of very few folks who thought removal of Aero Glass, for example, was positive.

              And now, lo and behold, the public seems to be more and more recognizing Windows 10 for what it isn’t – a true technological advancement over its predecessors. Maybe most folks don’t care; perhaps many never needed all the tech anyway to make their social media posts and whatnot. But some of us DO care, and even a loss of a few percent of usability and utility that can’t easily be recovered another way just hurts (not to mention all the extra time the new version demands just to keep it working).

              -Noel

              3 users thanked author for this post.
            • #100911

              Noel, I’d change the wording on that question a bit when asking if any given person is an astroturfer.  Something like, “Are you paid or otherwise compensated or incentivized by Microsoft or any other entity for promoting Microsoft and its products?”

              Microsoft has already been noted as paying third parties to hire people to astroturf for them; these people can still semi-honestly say they’re not paid by Microsoft to promote Microsoft products.  Of course, they could also claim they’re not compensated at all even if they are; it’s not like they’re talking to a federal agent on an official matter.

               

              Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon
              XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, KDE Neon
              Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, KDE Neon (and Win 11)

              2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #100767

            b,use an adblocker. Dont’ use IE. I bet Woody would be fine having his expenses covered by donations, not ads. You also contribute by being a regular here.

            Seems to me its reached the stage where people are getting hysterical about MS. Change your OS, and if you need to use Windows applications or games, you’ll have to have another computer which you update and go online with once a month, so you don’t have to worry about activation. Start your transition now.

            • #100801

              I bet Woody would be fine having his expenses covered by donations, not ads.

              I’d be ecstatic! Many of you watched as I agonized over putting ads on this site. I only gave in when it became clear that I could get solid ads from a reputable organization. If donations and the affiliate link paid enough to keep the lights on, the ads would be gone.

              4 users thanked author for this post.
            • #100846

              Seems to me its reached the stage where people are getting hysterical about MS. Change your OS, and if you need to use Windows applications or games, you’ll have to have another computer which you update and go online with once a month, so you don’t have to worry about activation. Start your transition now.

              Hysterical? Maybe you sense desperation.

              Switching is easier said than done.

              Many have invested much of their lives in becoming knowledgeable about and good at using Microsoft’s software. For decades the company has followed an honorable path, and people felt they were a good partner to have. Some have made businesses supplying Microsoft users with additional software.

              Now it feels as though Microsoft’s made a turn “toward the dark side”, and they’re clearly not being persuaded to come back to the light.

              A lot of folks dislike advertising and gathering personal information as a business model, and with good reason. They block ads and fast forward through TV commercials without any guilt. They would rather pay good money for legitimate, ad-free, privacy preserving systems and content, yet are now deprived of that option!

              In all seriousness: How are people supposed to feel when their partner of many years does unexpected things and even turns on them?

              What other operating system is there to turn to? Linux? Sure, we geeks could do that, and probably make a good go of it, but most non-techie folks? Are you kidding?

              Apple and Google and Amazon don’t seem interested in building on anything but an ad and personal information business model, which is what Microsoft aficionados crave avoiding. There’s a reason a majority of the world has been running on Microsoft for their computing needs up to now.

              And Linux/Unix – which ALL of the above except Windows are based on – is no panacea of goodness either. IMO the architecture is simply inferior to the system Dave Cutler built.

              -Noel

              5 users thanked author for this post.
            • #100848

              A lot of folks dislike advertising and gathering personal information as a business model, and with good reason. They block ads and fast forward through TV commercials without any guilt. They would rather pay good money for legitimate, ad-free, privacy preserving systems and content, yet are now deprived of that option!

              As a business owner, couldn’t you achieve this with an enterprise edition of Windows 10?

            • #100849

              As a business owner, couldn’t you achieve this with an enterprise edition of Windows 10?

              It’s possible, though the licensing model doesn’t seem to suit me. I have heard that it may become possible to lease a small number of licenses for something like $7 a month, but from what I gather that doesn’t give a full, truly controllable Enterprise edition. And what if I need 3 licenses but the smallest block is 5? I admit not to knowing all about their very latest packages.

              Microsoft has traditionally targeted “Pro” to small businesses (though I always bought “Ultimate” up to version 7). Trouble is, that no longer works; “Pro” is like a glorified “Home”, with all the ads and privacy invasion intact.

              And Enterprise does nothing to correct the problem where Windows 10 now demands constant attention because of Microsoft’s policies. The OS should not be demanding attention. It should be moving out of the way and facilitating REAL WORK. Some of that – a small bit of it – is getting better, with Microsoft’s latest addition to allow deferring of updates for a longer amount of time, but the general issue is loss of control.

              I need MORE control, not less. You see, I’ve been managing my computer systems for a long time and I actually do it a helluva lot better than Microsoft does or can hope to. That’s why WaaS just doesn’t work for me.

              The big picture issue is that Microsoft’s goals no longer align with their customer’s goals, so they are simply no longer as valuable a partner as they once were or could be.

              -Noel

              7 users thanked author for this post.
            • #100859

              How many of Microsoft’s customers answered your survey? 🙂

              Even my Pro edition requires nothing like constant attention (even if I was paranoid about trivial changes). In fact it requires far less attention than Windows 7 or 8 ever did, and certainly less than they require now.

            • #100878

              And yet my Win 10 DOES require much more time than 8.1 or 7 to keep in shape. Even excluding day to day operations, TCO is in an entirely different ballpark simply because I’m not having to recover from a full install (or at best an in-place upgrade) every 8 months.

              Right now I have to do almost NOTHING to Windows 8.1 (installed in late 2013) to have it continue to facilitate my work – for MONTHS AT A TIME. As an illustration of that, my workstation has been running on the current bootup for 2 months now, facilitating my work every day…

              Win81Uptime

              It’s so trouble-free I can spend a fair bit of time here on this forum instead of fighting to make Windows work.

              And let’s not forget my Win 7 system, running quietly in a primarily server role in the corner of the room, which demands even less attention… Up for 5 months now and no sign of quitting…

              Win7Uptime

              Why do we have such different experiences with keeping our systems in shape?

              Because my “in shape” is clearly different from your “in shape”. My goals are different from your goals, apparently.

              As an engineer I expect – require – a LOT from Windows. Others may not require as much or the same things.

              I have as you can see a computer system with 24 logical processors (12 cores with Hyperthreading) and 8 SSDs. It matters to me whether software takes advantage of all that hardware (e.g., to shorten Visual Studio builds, or to apply complex transforms to images, or in startup time for Photoshop, or…). It also matters to me when Windows 10 tries to run 30+ more processes and services than I need, and even after I disable them Microsoft puts them back every 8 months.

              My minimum Windows 8.1 process count, with an empty desktop and including all the things *I* choose to run in the background: 42. With Windows 10 the out-of-box number was MUCH more, but I was able to whittle it down to about 46 by doing things few users know how to do. Still, that’s 4 more processes just to facilitate an empty desktop. My process count with Windows 7 on an empty desktop was 37, and if we go WAYYY back I believe it was under 20 with my best tuned XP system.

              I multitask when I work, as much as I can. Maybe you don’t, or your computer is completely sufficient to handle your needs. Powerful workstation or no, in the heat of development and business management I could still make good use of a system that’s twice as fast.

              Your mileage may vary. I try to maximize mine.

              -Noel

              3 users thanked author for this post.
            • #100898

              Constant attention ………. every 8 months?

              How much do the extra 4 processes slow you down?

            • #100914

              b,use an adblocker. Dont’ use IE.

              Why not IE?

              1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #100925

              Why not IE?

              I’d ask that question as well.

              Personally I think IE has the best security model of all of them – including Edge (because IE offers the user more control, vs. a dumbed down set of defaults in Edge).

              -Noel

          • #100799

            suddenly it’s news because someone woke up and noticed.

            There’s a lot of truth to that. I think it became news when people saw that it was being used for blatant advertising. I, for one, didn’t realize it was documented in the build 14901 notes.

            That adds to the confusion, for me, because the screenshot I’m using is from the Creators Update beta – but the original screenshot on Reddit is from Win10 Home Anniversary Update

            https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/5xec80/is_nothing_sacred_advertisement_for_onedrive_in/

            Tall_Ships_for_Life says, down in the discussion, that he’s on Home “Laptop upgraded from 8.1.”

            Paul Thurrott says:

            Ad-like notifications for OneDrive do appear in File Explorer in the Anniversary Update, but people running the Creators Update are now seeing actual advertising.

            In my article I say,

            The ads appear on some Windows 10 Anniversary Update PCs, and it looks like they’re going to become more common with version 1703, the Creators Update

            based on Tall_Ships_for_Life’s observation. I wonder if he’s mistaken – or I’m wrong?

            UPDATE: MS Power User is now saying, “Microsoft initially tested this feature with Windows Insiders for the upcoming Creators Update, but the company later introduced to all users running the Anniversary Update with a new update at a later date.” I have a hard time parsing that sentence, but it seems to indicate that the ability to put ads in File Explorer, apparently introduced in beta build 14901, was backported to Anniversary Update. Or am I reading it wrong?

        • #100752

          The differences between Microsoft and AskWoody seem quite extreme to me…

          firstly, you come to AskWoody by choice, each and every time you visit;
          secondly, I don’t see why Woody should cover all the costs of this site out of his own back pocket; and
          finally, I don’t see Microsoft having to rely on the goodwill of unpaid volunteers.

          4 users thanked author for this post.
          • #100756

            The differences between Microsoft and AskWoody seem quite extreme to me…

            firstly, you come to AskWoody by choice, each and every time you visit;

            I choose to use File Explorer too, but here I can’t click “no thanks” to dismiss the twelve ads on every page.

            One quite extreme difference is that we do get ads here, as you say, each and every time we visit, whereas File Explorer notifications are exceedingly rare and totally optional.

            secondly, I don’t see why Woody should cover all the costs of this site out of his own back pocket;

            Virtually everything here is linked to and from InfoWorld.com, and I don’t think that’s a charitable endeavor (judging by the amount of really intrusive advertising we have to endure or deal with there too).

            and finally, I don’t see Microsoft having to rely on the goodwill of unpaid volunteers.

            You haven’t tried asking a question at answers.microsoft.com?

            But isn’t “unpaid volunteers” one less reason why this site needs advertising?

            • #100800

              FWIW, the income from the ads, donations, and the Amazon affiliate link just barely cover the cost of the site.

              3 users thanked author for this post.
            • #100884

              Hi B. I do some work on the Microsoft Answers forum. You will find some really good answers and some really bad ones. You can tell the bad ones because they start with Hi name and almost always do little more than point to another web page.

              There are several real experts like me who really answer questions and those usually lead to “conversations”. I think you will find those useful.

              Bottom line: If you get a crummy answer, take your chances and ask again but use a slightly different title. If you get one of the good guys, you will get real help.

              I’m pretty proud of what I do there.

              I am amazed at how freely I can talk on the Microsoft Forum. I speak my mind easily and am frequently highly critical of Microsoft.

              CT

              4 users thanked author for this post.
      • #100746

        I was once a Microsoft fanboy until the release of Windows 8 which prompted plan B.

        ‘If you find you are constantly driving into on-coming traffic, you’re in the wrong lane’ sprung to mind when trying out windows 10.

        SO glad we took time out from windows to learn Linux, it definately has a more appealing and engaging outlook than Windows 10 has in it’s current run of form. It’s comforting to have a plan B in action for 2020/ 2023 rather than wait for the alarm clock to WAKE YOU UP when it’s too late.

        Win8.1/R2 Hybrid lives on...
        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #100748

          I have been thinking of BSD or TrueOS. I just can’t seem to bring myself to pull the trigger.

          --------------------------------------

          1. Tower Totals: 2xSSD ~512GB, 2xHHD 20 TB, Memory 32GB

          SSDs: 6xOS Partitions, 2xW8.1 Main & Test, 2x10.0 Test, Pro, x64

          CPU i7 2600 K, SandyBridge/CougarPoint, 4 cores, 8 Threads, 3.4 GHz
          Graphics Radeon RX 580, RX 580 ONLY Over Clocked
          More perishable

          2xMonitors Asus DVI, Sony 55" UHD TV HDMI

          1. NUC 5i7 2cores, 4 Thread, Memory 8GB, 3.1 GHz, M2SSD 140GB
          1xOS W8.1 Pro, NAS Dependent, Same Sony above.

          -----------------

    • #100741

      This is a subject that I have been purposely tardy on. It is a difficult subject to keep ones composure on but I have been amazed at what I have read so far. I am going to start by sharing something that I have recently written and is posted here, “Windows as a service” means big, painful changes for IT pros. Some of you may have already read that and commented.

      I have a very strong passion against the “mobilefication” of my Workstation and Desktop or even my Entertainment Center NUC and TV, but Microsoft never learns it’s lessons since it started and also through the turn of the century, why would we expect any difference through the W 8 fiasco? They are just wanting their one way, harder. I am just glad they pulled back some in W 8.1 Pro. Some people may wonder why I never use ‘Win’, as in Win 8.1 Pro, like some others do. The answer is, I don’t see MS or Windows as a Win! Further more, why did the Phone(mobile) fail so bad? I personally don’t what Microsoft anywhere near my SmartPhone except in a couple of apps. Android will do just fine, thank you very much.

      Ads, I don’t watch, listen to or read anybodies ads UNLESS I am viewing a catalog, then I expect them on my terms! I am certainly not going to put up with them from an OS, or whatever you want to call what we have. It will be interesting to see how other OS’s start to evolve and how Microsoft reacts, more than what they are doing already.

      --------------------------------------

      1. Tower Totals: 2xSSD ~512GB, 2xHHD 20 TB, Memory 32GB

      SSDs: 6xOS Partitions, 2xW8.1 Main & Test, 2x10.0 Test, Pro, x64

      CPU i7 2600 K, SandyBridge/CougarPoint, 4 cores, 8 Threads, 3.4 GHz
      Graphics Radeon RX 580, RX 580 ONLY Over Clocked
      More perishable

      2xMonitors Asus DVI, Sony 55" UHD TV HDMI

      1. NUC 5i7 2cores, 4 Thread, Memory 8GB, 3.1 GHz, M2SSD 140GB
      1xOS W8.1 Pro, NAS Dependent, Same Sony above.

      -----------------

      5 users thanked author for this post.
    • #100742

      hello!

      so erm, i need move to gnu/linux? or mantain into windows 7 using patch-b mode?

      or block a lot’s of ip? sorry for the lot’s of questions but, what i can do?

      and… thanks =)!!!

      • #100744

        In my humble opinion, you need to do exactly what feels comfortable to YOU! AND meets your NEEDS! If a completely different OS will accomplish that, then consider learning/moving to a different one.
        Therefore it really depends on what you are doing on a PC and what you LONG term, expect you will need to do. Most people either can’t or don’t want to change/learn a new OS.

        If you decide to stay with Windows you might consider getting a W 8.1 Pro Valid Legal Licence from Amazon or Ebay. One can D/L the ISO for installation from Microsoft website. If you want, one can customize it to be like W 7.

        What are the advantages. The tools under the hood are more advanced, and I don’t like the Hood Ornament(Start Menu or GUI) neither. One gets a longer time period of support for security fixes about 2022, I believe. Then it will be like XP for us. Don’t pay to much US$40.00 to 60.00 is probably fair. There is not a shortage of legal Licences in the open market. If you take an Image before you Upgrade you will still be able to go back to W 7. OR you could do Dual Boot while you are getting used to W 8.1 Pro and deciding.

        The big picture, that is the best I can to for you…. 😀

        --------------------------------------

        1. Tower Totals: 2xSSD ~512GB, 2xHHD 20 TB, Memory 32GB

        SSDs: 6xOS Partitions, 2xW8.1 Main & Test, 2x10.0 Test, Pro, x64

        CPU i7 2600 K, SandyBridge/CougarPoint, 4 cores, 8 Threads, 3.4 GHz
        Graphics Radeon RX 580, RX 580 ONLY Over Clocked
        More perishable

        2xMonitors Asus DVI, Sony 55" UHD TV HDMI

        1. NUC 5i7 2cores, 4 Thread, Memory 8GB, 3.1 GHz, M2SSD 140GB
        1xOS W8.1 Pro, NAS Dependent, Same Sony above.

        -----------------

        3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #100766

          If you decide to stay with Windows you might consider getting a W 8.1 Pro Valid Legal Licence from Amazon or Ebay. One can D/L the ISO for installation from Microsoft website. If you want, one can customize it to be like W 7.

          What she said, +1.

          -Noel

          3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #100745

        Stay on Windows 7 with patch A (not B) mode if Windows 10 is not for you.
        You have enough time to decide if you want to stay with Windows or move to something else.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #100861

        It is a difficult question to answer when we don’t know your needs and how comfortable your are with computers.

        I would recommend doing what ch100 suggests (keep 7 and patch A) if you don’t mind the privacy or change of functionalities issues that we don’t really know how bad or not they can or will be on 7 until 2020. If you are comfortable with being group B, then stay group B if you prefer. You will just continue to use that same Windows 7 you loved, but as ch100 said, it might not be that easy to stay group B without creating other issues. On my work computer, I stay group B and if it gets bad, I will switch to A. I can’t afford to not have a good work computer.

        I don’t see much reason to upgrade to 8.1 for you right now. 8.1 has in theory longer support and it can be great if tuned, but for normal users, it might be a worse experience than 7 out of the box. The small benefits of upgrading for normal users are not worth it, in my opinion.

        I think support for 8.1 might be difficult once Win 7 will be out of support in 2020. Microsoft will want to kill this 8.1 OS as fast as possible for 2 good reasons:

        1) unless a lot of people go from 7 to 8.1 instead of going to 10 or if they downgarde (that means that for a lot of them they will buy a new PC with 10, then buy a separate license for 8.1 and downgrade), the market share left for that “annoying” OS for Microsoft that prevents them from moving faster with their new paradigm will be too low and some software providers might drop support anyway like they did with Vista before even XP. The market is already very small for 8.1 and according to ch100, very few businesses run 8.1. If they leave 7, I doubt it will be for 8.1. There is more chance that as businesses adopt 10 and its headaches, a lot of them will complain and force Microsoft to sweeten the deal a bit for fear of loosing a certain type of customers. If a lot of businesses start using Macs in huge numbers like IBM did and this fact starts to get more coverage in the news, then it might be what MS needs to listen to its users.

        2) Microsoft will have a huge incentive to get rid of Windows 8.1, because they don’t want any more reason to delay their plans with 10 being the only system and everyone patched about the same, no legacy support needed and ability to create new features with mandatory adoption for everyone. They might even offer a new GWX campaign for the people running 8.1 in 2020 or 2021, with all their “generosity” or just leave you out in the cold if you are one of the only “weirdo” (no offense, I could be one of those) running 8.1.

        So, I would advise to stay on 7, then once 2020 arrives, there might be a lot of action going on, maybe businesses and users will complain too loudly or start buying a lot more Macs or even install some Linux and Microsoft will have to extend support for 7 a bit more, maybe there will be a backlash and people going back to 8.1 (doubt it will be big enough), maybe it will be time for you to buy a new PC with Windows 10 or switch to Mac or Linux. You never know, with Office online getting better and available on Linux, many office people might not need Windows that much.

        If your needs are not too tied to the Microsoft ecosystem and its software and you have a spare computer, I would suggest you start playing with other OSes to see if it would fit your needs in the meantime so you can be ready to not go to Windows 10 once you have not much choice left (unless you don’t care running 7 unpatched and unsupported, which I don’t recommend).

        Another idea you could try if you are comfortable doing this is try Linux as a dual boot or in a virtual machine. It might actually be easier to try it in a virtual machine. Someone should post a guide here on askwoody on how to create a VM and run Linux on it for people who are not very technical. It is not difficult. The good thing about a VM is that it is not something that can easily cause boot issues with your computer and you can’t easily mess your normal Windows while you run the other OS in the VM. Just remember it will be slower in the VM than it would be if installed natively, but at least you get a feel for what you would experience if you switched OS.

        If you are not very comfortable with computers, Mac can be a good option as they provide an acceptable version of Microsoft Office if you want it and they are quite simple to use. They might be right now the best alternative for office workers. I know people who work on Mac in universities office and they don’t complain.

        If you don’t need Office that badly, I suggest you try LibreOffice as maybe in the future, you might not want to spend a monthly fee to use Office if MS ever tries to coerce people to do that, plus it runs on many OSes. I install LibreOffice to a lot of home folks to free them from Office and for a lot of them, it is plenty good enough.

         

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      • #100886

        B mode or even C. I have 150 Win7 client computers who have not seen an update since September and they work on and on and never quit or complain. Not a single problem.

        I am just now using PKcano’s guide to B updating from October through February. I am applying those updates to client computers a few at a time. It is far to complex for an average Windows user. I do them when ever I get a chance to do a Logmein remote session.

        CT

    • #100764

      I’m now dual booting Ubuntu MATE with Win7; the only thing I use Windows for is games that haven’t made it to Linux yet. With an SSD, rebooting to switch OS is not a bear like it used to be. As far as I’m concerned, if I get to a point where the Windows partition can be wiped, it will be.

      • #100838

        I’m now dual booting Ubuntu MATE with Win7; the only thing I use Windows for is games that haven’t made it to Linux yet. With an SSD, rebooting to switch OS is not a bear like it used to be. As far as I’m concerned, if I get to a point where the Windows partition can be wiped, it will be.

        The VirtualBox website has some thinly sketched-out instructions for converting a running Windows partition into a virtual machine image. I’ll be experimenting with that soon, and will report back in the linux subsection of the Lounge.

        (There are other VM vendors who have actual conversion utilities, but I kinda like VirtualBox, so I’m trying that first. And of course there are also those 90-day “browser testing” virtual images offered free from Microsoft.)

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    • #100768

      The rambling thoughts of a concerned Pc user who cannot embrace W10.

      I would consider myself to be a retired senior who is a PC user.
      I have been involved with Pc’s since the days of DOS.
      I am a somewhat of a Techno Luddite. This stems from my great personal resistance to having to change to the next and latest and greatest upgrade or O/S that is foisted upon me. Each time I am grabbed led kicking and screaming to upgrade. If all my programs that I used worked on an older system I would stay, but as it is, the new and “improved” programs make use of the benefits of what the new O/S provides, thus users are required to upgrade to make use of the new upgraded programs.

      A couple of years ago I gave up on Xp and went into Win8.1 head first and it was somewhat of a shock to myself to what the O/S was offering,and provided to me. I just wished I could have stayed with XP but I have stuck with 8.1 and feel that I am now somewhat comfortable with using it, (ignoring the ridiculous Charms bar and all the other mobile conveniences foisted upon the Pc user) until I cannot continue because of its ticking end of life cycle.

      The looming dark cloud of Win10 made me a while ago to think that I had better start to at least read about what is going to be the new O/s for me, that at sometime in the future I will have to use, but again it will be a hard fought thing to stick with what I have got now before I move across. With this search for knowledge I stumbled across Woody’s site a couple of years ago. I can only say that I consider it to be a godsend for the likes of me. The old site and now the new “Lounge” is a very deep well of knowledge contributed from Woody himself and all the other contributors that pool their thoughts and suggestions and tips and tricks.
      All I can say is my deepest thanks to all for the content of the site, and especially to Woody for his obvious dedication to the sites goals and purpose.

      My thoughts on using the Home edition of Win10, because of the new system of W10 Cumulative Updates, is that it is a train wreck waiting to happen.
      Especially in my situation in that I use a metered connection and have a limit of 3Gb per month download/upload total.
      The new W10 way of getting updates is just going to blow people like me out of the water when we try to use WU. I therefore since Oct last year have joined group W. (Walked away from all WU updates)

      For me, M$ has gone a step to far in many many ways. I am 100% against the way Win10 is going, and
      think it is just a monster/disaster incubating.

      I think the only way that M$ will be swayed to return from the dark side is from the efforts of people like those who use Woody’s site who can pool their resources and knowledge, and I believe the power of the collective will hopefully defeat the direction of the way Win10 is going.

      Me personally, well I am buying books and reading as much as I can about Linux, which is totally out of my comfort zone but must now be done.
      It is to me the only alternative. This is a giant step from my inbuilt Luddite persona. I do admit I am somewhat uncertain if I will be able to cope with Linux updates within my 3 Gb/mth allocation, but hopefully the possibilities of having a stable reliable O/S, are much more enticing than what Win10 currently offers. W10 Home currently sucks in many ways.

      A question that I do ask is, if this is what is motivating a person like me because of the antics and total disregard to Home users by M$,
      then what would be happening to those who are more challenged by Technology and are experiencing the same contempt thrown at them by M$. We paid for a stable O/S and all we are getting offered is instability and technical problems that are not easily overcome by the technological challenged. M$ needs to understand that there is alternatives to Win10, and for those who wish not to be used as cannon fodder for Q/A and the M$ move to subscription based O/S, then they better stop this cumulative update madness and revert to what was working and worked well for the past two or more decades. Oh, by the way, we own our hardware not M$, so we have a right to choose.

      My most sincere best wishes to all, which ever path is chosen, and many many thanks to Woody and all contributors.

      6 users thanked author for this post.
      • #100854

        For this old DOS guy (and Windows guy, from 3.1 through XP, mostly), Ubuntu with a Gnome-ish desktop environment was pretty quickly comfortable.  Currently, that’d be distros like Ubuntu MATE, Lubuntu, Xubuntu (my personal go-to), Kubuntu, and a whole zoo of derivatives and respins like the Mint family, Linux Lite, and on and on and on…

        My xubuntu installations pretty much just do OS tasks, and otherwise stay out of my way. And even eight years ago, the ‘buntus were pretty easy for a PC hobbyist; since then, they’ve gotten closer and closer to an “end-user-grade” OS, in my (admittedly limited) experience. I have anecdotes… 🙂  They’re very good at detecting and supporting the hardware in my ragtag fleet of obsolete and not-quite-obsolete PCs. For figuring out fixes and tweaks, I can draw on a tremendous and eminently searchable archive of answered questions on the various Ubuntu forums– I just try to check the most recent answers first, as techniques change over the years and releases.

        Most of the applications I use are either the same (Firefox, Thunderbird, Chrome, LibreOffice, etc.) or close enough. For the remainder, I’m currently pushing harder on researching Windows in a virtual machine, and Wine, the compatibility layer (which has also gotten much better the last few years.)

        On the limited bandwidth issue, I’m not sure of the comparison. My ‘buntus (and a couple of Debian distros I’m trying out) do receive updates throughout each month, every two or three days or so, but it’s mostly small stuff.  A browser update runs about 50 meg; a kernel update, about 100. Dunno what all that adds up to over the course of a month. On the Windows machines I maintain, browser updates run smaller (easier to do in-place deltas, I guess), but the Windows 10 cumulative updates have been somewhat over a gigabyte.

        Hmm, rambled a bit myself there. Hope this helps. I think I’ll end up quoting this over in the linux subsection…

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        • #100882

          You can check monthly and daily bandwidth usage in Ubuntu for the current PC and for that OS only, by using VnStat at the Command Line. The monthly updates are not large. Even a full download of a new version would run less than in Windows.

          I keep Ubuntu usage stats, but mine would be irrelevant because I do so much web surfing and video streaming in Ubuntu. The updates hardly make a dent compared with daily consumption of 500 MB of media.

           

          -- rc primak

          2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #100779

      it’s an advertising platform

      A bit like Betanews and this site then?

      1. I guess you are computer literate enough to make a distinction between an operating system and a website, aren’t you?

      2. Askwoody.com is free, Windows 10 is 119 USD at least.

      I have never come across any ad in Android itself, and I’ve been using Android smartphone for years… Even mobile OS-es are not that blatant.

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    • #100780

      Microsoft tells us how to disable advertising within Windows 10.

      https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2016/08/11/announcing-windows-10-insider-preview-build-14901-for-pc So, nothing “disgustingly sneaky” about it at all really.

      OK, how many of Windows users in your opinion are browsing Windows blog? 2%? Windows is not Justin Timberlake or Rihanna to follow MS’s social media. And I somehow do not recall that advertising is disabled by default or there are huge “I WANT / I DON’T WANT ADVERTISING IN WINDOWS 10” buttons during the installation and then in the system itself.

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    • #100781

      Change your OS, and if you need to use Windows applications or games, you’ll have to have another computer which you update and go online with once a month, so you don’t have to worry about activation. Start your transition now.

      You get much too close to game consoles – and they’re much cheaper to run. If it goes like this, I’ll simply buy a Playstation (not to pay MS for Xbox) and if they kill Windows 8.1 completely, I’ll go Linux.

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    • #100782

      If you decide to stay with Windows you might consider getting a W 8.1 Pro Valid Legal Licence from Amazon or Ebay.

      Actually, it’s even better if you’re able to find Windows 8. They’re transferrable between computers and can be freely updated to 8.1. Licensing has been changed again in 8.1 and those are tied to your computer.

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    • #100787

      To be honest, Windows 10 left me with mixed feelings and thoughts. It’s like Microsoft’s taking one step forward, two steps back. Introduce a new platform that could work on multiple types of devices? You got my interest (especially since HTML5 programs and games can access some native APIs). No option to remove inbox apps that you replaced with better ones (both Win32 and UWP)? Well, s***. A way to simplify installations of programs and games? This is great. Advertisements on the shell? No thank you. Office Hub (assuming you use Microsoft Office)? That’s neat (although  don’t use it often since a. I can find the files easily and b. it updated Get Office (and they didn’t change the title at all) sneakily to replace it, so most people removed it anyway). I do like Live Tiles, but I don’t like Tiles as advertisement. I want the Tiles to be informative (as at the glance info). The model they have for monetization is going against Windows’ design. I’d rather buy for upgrading to a newer version and don’t deal with ads, rather than getting free updates and have to deal with them. I think that it would be a better idea to pay for what modules you want. It’s cheaper to get what you want at least.

      I may have a developer license for publishing to the Windows Store, but I’m really hesitant to use the advertisement platform they offer. And in a few years time, they may have to completely reboot the OS (assuming they give a dime). And this will be a big crater there…

      Edit: pls note Lounge Rules

      3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #100839

      Joe Belfiore, is the one at Microsoft who is tasked with finding new ways to make money with Windows 10. The introduction of advertising directly into the Windows 10 OS has been the result.

      It would be interesting to know if the Windows and Devices Group has been designated a yearly sales quota for advertising revenue made from W10. That is, Myerson and Belfiore would have to meet a revenue target every year to earn their full bonus package. A marketing incentive, as they say. Once a sales quota has been levied, it never decreases, it always escalates the following and subsequent years. I know, I worked in marketing for over 15 years for a company that flogged computer hardware, software and services.

      I think Microsoft has cheapened their OS with this venture. The major concern would be if the quality of the OS (that is, its original purpose) will be their main focus or will it be how much they can leverage it through advertising.

      3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #100877

      Bottom line: Windows 7 and maybe 8 are the last Windows most people will ever want to have. Personally, I don’t view Windows 8 as much more than the predecessor to 10.

      From now on, “windows” is nothing more than a Good Housekeeping magazine with mostly advertising and a few bits of useful stuff included when and where you can find it.

      CT

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #100900

        Some people, not most people. Windows 7 diehards are becoming the minority quite quickly.

        mostly advertising”? Oh, come on!

        • #100910

          mostly advertising”? Oh, come on!

          A computer user will of course have a perspective that differs from a mobile device user.

          Beyond dumbed-down, big font operation typical of a mobile device, Apps running in the Metro / Modern / Universal / whatevertheycallitthisweek subsystem really do appear to be chiefly oriented toward supporting the Microsoft Store and presenting advertising, so the “mostly advertising” comment seems pretty reasonable to me.

          I have trouble thinking of a lot of significant improvements that have been made since Windows 7 for computer users…

          Even including Windows 8, it seems to me there have been precious few. Mostly it’s refinement of existing features and bugfixing. And for some reason REMOVAL of UI elegance.

          Of course, Windows 7 was mostly refinement of what was invented for Vista, so the trend just continues.

          I guess Windows 8 brought about a few file system improvements – the ability to use the ReFS file system (though that’s hidden from most folks), better self-healing in NTFS… Why in two major version releases can’t we yet build a system volume on ReFS and reap its advantages? The only answer that seems to me to make sense is that Microsoft is no longer cares to make substantial improvements to the operating system itself, but rather just do application development on top of it.

          But what of Win 10? Better security? Yeah, sure. No one’s getting infected any more, right? More reliability? Hard to beat a Win 7 or 8.1 system that can run indefinitely. Faster? Not for any of the things I’ve measured; it’s more loaded up with junkware so no, not faster. Better UI? LOL

          I’d have a different opinion if the Metro / Modern / Universal / whatevertheycallitthisweek subsystem actually facilitated some great, must-have Apps. Or if it promoted a more integrated look and feel.

          Trouble is, the people of the world do – and have always done – better applications than Microsoft, and we already know ways to be sure applications are sound (online reviews, malware scanners). Who here REALLY THINKS that being vetted for sale in the Microsoft store means anything w/regard to security?

          Even many web sites are better than Microsoft’s Apps… Why would I want to use the Weather App when I can browse to weather.com? The News app when I can get news from any number of sites dedicated to that.

          If Microsoft can’t think up or implement some must-have, best-in-show Apps built on their own new platform, then it sure seems like the whole App subsystem must be lacking under the hood. Am I off base here?

          Frankly, Apps remind me a lot of the kinds of character graphic software we could write in BASIC back in the late 1970s on 8 bit systems (thinking, for example, of the Commodore Pet). Some gee whiz because of the colors, but lacking of specific usefulness. But even the gee whiz is now faded, since they’re basically the same flat, lifeless colors from back then, without even the elegance and flair and integration that a previous version of Windows had.

          It’s like when you go to Universal Studios Orlando and pay to park, then pay again to get in, then have to pay to do other things like eat and shop. Maybe just going camping at a state park is still more genuine fun.

          -Noel

          2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #100927

            Beyond dumbed-down, big font operation typical of a mobile device, Apps running in the Metro / Modern / Universal / whatevertheycallitthisweek subsystem really do appear to be chiefly oriented toward supporting the Microsoft Store and presenting advertising, so the “mostly advertising” comment seems pretty reasonable to me.

            That just confirms to me that you rarely use Windows 10 on a daily/weekly/monthly basis because you decided you hated it a couple of years ago.

            I use it for hours every day but hardly ever use the start menu or apps (other than Edge) because I don’t need to.

            But what of Win 10? Better security? Yeah, sure. No one’s getting infected any more, right?

            True:
            Windows 10: Microsoft Edge beats Chrome and Firefox in new security report
            Windows 10 Safer From Ransomware Compared to Windows 7
            What’s new in Windows 10 security

            If Microsoft can’t think up or implement some must-have, best-in-show Apps built on their own new platform, then it sure seems like the whole App subsystem must be lacking under the hood. Am I off base here?

            Why don’t you update your Calculator app and give it a proper review?

            • #100957

              You are difficult to communicate with, b, because you keep trying to jump to conclusions about what others know or are doing.

              You put up web links when I cite personal experience. Forgive me if I consider my own eyes and expertise a better source of information than the Internet.

              Regarding updating available Apps, I will be testing them (and everything else) again when the Creator update comes out. Then if I find them no more useful than the Anniversary version’s, I will remove them again. I have no use for children’s software.

              -Noel

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            • #101049

              You are difficult to communicate with, b, because you keep trying to jump to conclusions about what others know or are doing.

              Put me right then. Tell me how much you’ve used Windows 10 recently.

              You put up web links when I cite personal experience. Forgive me if I consider my own eyes and expertise a better source of information than the Internet.

              You’ve asked questions about Windows 10 security quite a few times. But I don’t remember you detailing your experience about that aspect. Is 10 worse than 7 for security in your opinion?

              Regarding updating available Apps, I will be testing them (and everything else) again when the Creator update comes out. Then if I find them no more useful than the Anniversary version’s, I will remove them again. I have no use for children’s software.

              You haven’t been using the Anniversary version’s calculator. If you’re really evaluating these things why rip out their guts as soon as they arrive?

    • #100909

      it’s an advertising platform

      A bit like Betanews and this site then?

      No, not like those.  Those are web sites.  Windows 10 is an operating system.  An operating system that, unlike those web sites, costs the end user a significant bit of money.

      If MS would like to stop charging OEMs for Windows 10 and make it permanently available as a free download (for everyone,  not just licensed users of their other commercial products), maybe then ads would be tolerable, but that’s not what they’re doing.  They’re charging for Windows, as they always have, AND they’re using it to deliver ads, as they never have before.

       

       

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    • #100936

      Windows 7 diehards are becoming the minority quite quickly.

      Hmmm… you tend to be more optimistic than MS is. So… when 1 billion devices or how was it? 🙂

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      • #100941

        A year ago Windows 8/10 was 25.08% and Windows 7 was 52.34%.

        Now Windows 8/10 is 33.71% and Windows 7 is 48.41%.

        So Windows 7 majority dropped by 12.56%.

        Another year or two to minority?

        (netmarketshare.com)

        • #100943

          It looks quite stable. But I’d prefer all those jump to 8.1. W7 lost its sex appeal a bit, at least for me, I have to admit.

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    • #100938

      If you decide to stay with Windows you might consider getting a W 8.1 Pro Valid Legal Licence from Amazon or Ebay.

      Actually, it’s even better if you’re able to find Windows 8. They’re transferrable between computers and can be freely updated to 8.1. Licensing has been changed again in 8.1 and those are tied to your computer.

      That sounds like the difference between the full retail version and the OEM version of Windows.  OEM Win 8 would not be transferrable; retail Win 8.1 would be.

      Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon
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      • #100967

        Plus if you buy a retail license, you can reuse it in a VM later when you run Linux and sometimes needs Windows. With OEM, you are not supposed to do that and the license is tied to the machine and dies with it (even if only the motherboard dies after warranty, for example).

        Retail is transferrable to any PC once every 90 days id I am not mistaken.

        • #100973

          How do you transfer a retail licence from one PC to another?
          Do you have to call Microsoft to remove the record for the old hardware or it will register normally without rejecting the registration attempt due to an already existing record?
          I can tell you than even the Enterprise activations need to be renewed if there are any major hardware changes, a typical example being operations done on the system hard-disk like extending them, changing the virtual hardware drivers and so on. Obviously this does not require calling Microsoft, but in the case of MAK activation, I think it uses another activation when re-activating. With KMS activation, this is less of an issue, although it needs to re-activate as well.

          • #101053

            Oh I don’t know exactly right now, but in the past I think you could just reinstall and it would reactivate. I think maybe MS had a certain number of reactivations baking in that wouldn’t require you to call them, but I am not sure they managed the 90 days period. There was huge discrepancies between licensing and what you could actually do. Most MS folks I talked to didn’t even understand licensing very well.

            I have been audited and even the auditor himself didn’t seem to understand all the subtleties. He was going after the big chunk of money he hoped to find.

            There was weird things like you buy Office and can install it on either a Pc and a laptop or two laptops because the license said was for one device and a mobile device.

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    Reply To: Betanews: Microsoft is disgustingly sneaky: Windows 10 isn't an operating system, it's an advertising platform

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