Changes to policies

[Susan Bradley]

“We are trying to build a gentler, kinder society, and if we all pitch in just a little bit, we are going to get there.” Alex Trebek said that in his
[See the full post at: Changes to policies]

Susan Bradley Patch Lady

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Sueska, SueW, rexr, rick41, Andre van Rooyen, mledman, woody, Spiral, abbodi86, EspressoWillie, Dave, Cybertooth, jburk07

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[anonymous]

But Woody has repeatedly pushed the celebration of heathen and pagan holidays and holy days in our faces. Did Leonhard sign off on this?

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[woody]

I not only approve of what Susan’s doing, I’m celebrating a  heathen and pagan holiday while doing so!

Simultaneously, mind you.

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SueW, KWGuy, OscarCP

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[OscarCP]

For my part, I have been always OK with Woody’s blogs celebrating some of the major religions festivities around the world. That never bothered me one little bit and I was often glad to add my own congratulations and comment favorably on the whole thing, even if I am not a religious person. To me such festivities are part of the wonderful side of the world I live in, a part of what adds spice to the life of the open and curious mind. Now “Net Neutrality”, “SolarWinds”, “Prizm” … those definitely bother me.

As to commenting on religion or politics as such — something quite different from sending congrats to people who celebrate a major religious festivity and are most likely also loungers in this international site — that is what  “Rants” has been for. People who would rather not see or hear about religion or politics, or read about them, at last not at Woody’s, have always been entirely free to ignore “Rants” even exists. There has been nothing here that is going to grab and drag them against their will to see what is in there. Both religion and politics elsewhere, outside “Rants”, in this site always have been no-nos. I am also fine with that.

Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group W (ex B) & macOS Mojave + Linux (Mint)

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KWGuy

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[Cybertooth]

The problem, as I see it, is that even though political/ideological commentary has historically been formally limited to the Rants section (which I don’t remember ever visiting, and have no plans ever to visit), nevertheless sometimes such commentary still seeps into the rest of the site.

I spend a major chunk of each day making my way through political websites and I would like visiting Woody’s to be a respite from that.

So I welcome Susan’s policy change wholeheartedly.

 

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• This reply was modified 1 week, 5 days ago by Cybertooth.

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rick41, KWGuy

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[OscarCP]

Cybertooth: If politics or religion “still seeps into the rest of the site“, that has nothing to do with “Rants.” Even if “Rants” were to be totally excised from AskWoody, that sort of commentary will still seep in as much as it does now, because not everyone here posting comments is careful or particularly cares about respecting the rules of the site, that forbid posting on religion or politics (at least until today) outside “Rants.” And because the moderators are only human and, therefore, not perfect at finding and removing every single inappropriate comment. So, no, “Rants” can stay or go and, either way, you shall still find, pretty much as frequently as heretofore, occasion to be put off by things you don’t care to see here.

And, according to my own experience, “Rants” has been rarely used by anyone to comment there on anything, compared to the other forums (I have been one of those to do so, so I know that), in the three plus years that I have been associated with AskWoody. In fact, I have started threads in “Rants” some times, simply because I was not sure where else they might belong and I suspected that they might be open to some controversy. So “Rants” is really something of a red herring here.

Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group W (ex B) & macOS Mojave + Linux (Mint)

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[Cybertooth]

No doubt there will continue to be those around here who yield to the temptation to express their views on politics or religion upon the rest who honor the request to keep to technical issues. But from a user’s perspective, a blanket policy against politics/religion anywhere in the forum is much clearer than what we have hitherto had, and as understanding of that intent spreads I would expect a decrease, over time, in the frequency of unsolicited political/religious opinions here.

 

Keep Running Windows 7 Safely for Years to Come  
Make Windows 10 look and work like Windows 7

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rick41

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[OscarCP]

Cybertooth: I respectfully disagree, because I am convinced that radically removing the ability to have in “Rants” rational and respectful discussions, on politics in particular (as are the ones you have not seen in “Rants” and have survived appropriate monitoring; there are no discussions on religion as such there) is not going to make one tiny bit of difference to you because of what you’ll find elsewhere. It will only make this site less interesting to those of us who don’t mind shooting the breeze on current events that are important to us, as citizens of this world, and like to throw them up there and see how they do against the criticism of informed others, in a place that has been set apart from the rest of this site expressly for this purpose.

Cutting off a discreetly conducted conversation in a separate space is not going to prevent in the least some people’s sensibilities from being offended when reading comments posted elsewhere. And that’s the pity of it.

Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group W (ex B) & macOS Mojave + Linux (Mint)

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[Susan Bradley]

Yes.

I had to laugh, now I need to find where that footer is that says “politics/religion are relegated to the Rants forum” as I need to edit that as well.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady

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[Microfix]

Please remember the home-users who frequent this site (mostly the subscribed members)
Some are in isolation/shielding and housebound due to the pandemic, then there is a question of mental wellbeing and it’s global like the members.
So to me, changing policy/rules at this time, is not a wise move and has the potential to enflame frustration, confuse members further and drift off elsewhere.. just my 2cents

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Charlie, Cee Arr, OscarCP

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[Susan Bradley]

Thinking of home users/non business users is the exact reason why I made the change.  I find myself wanting a politically free zone in my online interactions with other folks and especially because of the pandemic.  It’s breaking apart families and that’s not a good thing.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady

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SueW, KWGuy, rick41, snalmond, DriftyDonN, woody, Cybertooth, EspressoWillie

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[Cee Arr]

I am definitely in the “drift off” category. I signed up 1. because of Woody and 2. for computer information. At present it’s nip and tuck as to whether I extend my paying membership. I’m finding less and less of interest and often can’t be bothered – period; I finding what I need elsewhere. Stay with computer stuff.

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[anonymous]

Good call. I don’t discuss those two topics with anyone outside of family.

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[anonymous]

The changing of policies is less of a problem for us then the sites blocking traffic from our VPN’s servers.

At this point, we are having to click through five or six of the VPN’s servers to get through to the site. It takes less than 30 seconds. We are sure that anyone trying to attack the site is doing the same.

Posting a political post is not a problem if we can not get through to the site.

And how do you separate politics from computer related issues.

Is Australia’s move to enact laws to charge Facebook for access to the Australasian market a computer relate or political issue?

 

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[Susan Bradley]

Are you using a free vpn service or paid?  I personally find when using a vpn to use a paid service and then I pick a specific one in a large city in my country and then save that as my favorite.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady

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[anonymous]

We are using a paid service – NordVPN

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[anonymous]

Our favorite NordVPN site, the one that we have been using for several months – was just blocked.

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[Susan Bradley]

Unfortunately the services we use to try to keep spammers away also react to the IP addresses used, so if spammers pivot to a different clean address good people get impacted as well.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady

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[anonymous]

Please clarify, will discussions related to Facebook and Googles’ activities in Australia  be a political or computer related discussion?

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/02/19/tech/facebook-australia-global-backlash/index.html

Will topics like this be blocked?

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OscarCP

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[Susan Bradley]

“Sometimes we will have articles that deal with real-life issues that affect us all, such as the intersection of law and technology. Such topics can easily slip into a political discussion but we ask that your commentary remains polite, respectful, unbiased, and factual.  That sort of commentary is to be encouraged”

There will be topics that have political influence, but I’d like to keep away from a blame game of one side or the other. Does that help?

Susan Bradley Patch Lady

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rick41, OscarCP, Cybertooth

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[OscarCP]

Susan: ” but I’d like to keep away from a blame game of one side or the other. ”

If politician x does something wicked that is firmly and publicly approved of by his or her own political party because, among other reasons, it is in agreement with said party position on the matter, is mentioning this fact playing “a blame game?”

Or, to phrase it differently: Things are always more complicated than they seem.

Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group W (ex B) & macOS Mojave + Linux (Mint)

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[rick41]

What you assume to be “wicked” may be someone else’s “virtuous”  or “part good, part bad.”  That kind of potential polarization — which is more prevalent today than in years — is why this site needs to try to steer clear of politics.  There are an endless number of alternate arenas for discussing political issues.

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Cybertooth

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[Geo]

Edit item 1.  No personal attacks.  Then lists political and religion. It’s repetitive with item 3 now listed.

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Cybertooth, b

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[Kirsty]

I seem to recall that point being made, when it was originally discussed…
😉

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[wavy]

I thought politics was already blocked by woody last year. 🤔

🍻

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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[OscarCP]

Susan: How are things going with the “Catalina Rules” to ensure fair moderating? One of which is explaining to the lounger why a comment has been deleted and allowing for some kind of appeal process (which doubtless would need some imaginative work to make it a practical proposition here; not a simple thing to do well). I understood you were working on that. As you know, I have had a number of comments deleted without any reason clear to me, particularly disturbing a few happening in “Fun Stuff”, that I am convinced were none of the things that the modified rules (and also the old ones) define as a cause for editing or deletion.

As to “Rants”: Sometimes it is very difficult or even impossible to separate technological issues from matters of policy (consider Internet Neutrality) and, sometimes, from these and politics. That is because we all live in the same real world where all things are connected in innumerable ways. That does not mean that politics must inevitably enter in any topic under discussion, far from it. But it is a fact that determining if a comment is “political” and therefore must be deleted, or not is a matter open to interpretation by whomever chances to be the moderator. Moderators are people, so they have their own biases and prejudices. So I think that leaving the “Rants” forum as it has been until now would be wise. Except for personal attacks, if things get heated or some troll intervenes cloaked in anonymity.

Now, when it comes to religion: If, let’s say, I chose to emphasize something with a citation to one of the well-known Psalms, or to Ecclesiasticus, is that banned? The Psalms and other parts of various scriptures (consider the Bhagavad Ghita) are a pervasive part of universal culture and its wisdom, as much as the basic ideas behind the Internet. Making such citations is not the same as proselytizing (or attacking) a religious creed, something that I would consider as unacceptable in most places not concerned primarily with that particular creed.

I am all for stopping in its tracks any exchange that turns personal, although if someone who is not making provocative comments is attacked by someone else out of the blue, it is only the attacking comment that should go, to be fair.

I think that banning anything that can be connected to politics or religion is using too blunt a tool.

So, perhaps, some further clarification of how the changes to “Rants” are meant to work would be much appreciated.

Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group W (ex B) & macOS Mojave + Linux (Mint)

• This reply was modified 1 week, 5 days ago by OscarCP.

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[OscarCP]

The idea behind the new search system looks quite promising. Have not tried it yet; godspeed with the necessary fine-tuning that might still be needed.

Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group W (ex B) & macOS Mojave + Linux (Mint)

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[Charlie]

I would like to compliment Woody and the AskWoody site for being a place where I can communicate with mostly very intelligent people about things that are of interest to me.

This is a time in history when it’s hard to talk with my neighbors and even my own family members without the conversation getting immersed in politics and sometimes religion.  It’s so nice to come here to AskWoody and not have to worry about that.

Way to go Woody, the pleasant environment here is most appreciated, at least by me.

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Cybertooth, SueW

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[KP]

To keep religious and political rants off this site, how about this suggestion.

Politics and Rant Section:
– single post with topic only
– no replies allowed
– single link to non-AskWoody site where people can rant as they please
– banned material could be moved to the Politics and Rant Section

I am not familiar with sites which allow this type of content. I have heard about the ones in the news, after Twitter shutdown the recent high-profile account but never visited myself to see what it is like.

I am not sure how workable this is as a compromise solution; The other side of this is, it might be too much work to implement. However it give a small voice to go and discuss it somewhere.

Politics and Rant Section would be similar to a Junk Folder.

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[Author]

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