Choosing the right email program

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SOFTWARE By Lance Whitney Whether you use a Windows PC, iPhone, iPad, or Android device, there are a number of options for email clients other than th
[See the full post at: Choosing the right email program]

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lmacri, WSGeo, oldfry, AWRon

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In 1989, we started using Pegasus Mail (Pmail) on our Novell NetWare network. And I’ve used it since then for my personal mail. And yes, it’s old and tired. Not very user friendly, but it does have some nice features. Development is still ongoing, albeit at a glacial pace.

Won’t recommend it to new users. For me, it get’s the job done and I’m used to it….

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Doesn’t play with Google’s OATH requirement – yet. Worth keeping an eye on.

cheers, Paul

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https://www.pmail.com/gmail.htm

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So glad to hear from another Pegasus fan! I haven’t used anything but since the mid-1990’s so I can’t comment on its relative user friendliness, but it’s always been straightforward and simple enough for me as far as adding folders or directing, moving, and copying emails to appropriate places for storage. A brief look shows I’ve got folders with emails back to 1998 at least, e.g., Windows Secrets, and a fair amount of stuff I could probably cull. I have the mail folders separately backed up by Macrium so I can install it on a new computer without losing anything.

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Outlook Express did everything I wanted a PC-based email program to do, and when I found OE Classic Pro I was a happy camper.  I still use it contentedly.

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For pure email handling, the best I ever found was Outlook Express (which was Microsoft’s implementation of the original Lotus Express for MCI Mail).  Ending at Version 6 in Windows XP, it had superb search capabilities allowing for very granular searches through locally saved email, and was beautifully programmed to avoid modal limitations.

OEClassic, https://www.oeclassic.com/ is an outstanding updated implementation of this classic and timeless UI, incorporating virtually all of its features and continuously under development by a small and dedicated team.  Technical support is nearly instantaneous via email.

Among the best you can get!

— AWRon

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Mele20, Cybertooth, wdburt1

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I used Outlook Express years ago and always liked it. Very simple and capable little program. Good to hear that it’s still around in an updated version from a third party.

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I use webmail and thought everyone else did too.  Is it 1996?  Most email hosts have a script like gmails takeout that lets you back up old mail before deleting, there’s really no need for email desktop or phone apps imo.  Seems like a needless software to accommodate boomers who are used to it.

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As a pre-boomer at 78, one main reason aside from the fact that I like it to keep using Pegasus is that I don’t want to lose (or lose access to) my stored emails. Do other programs or webmail systems—I use my ISP’s webmail site to get my NYT newsletter into my browser, but I don’t delete anything there that I want to save in Pegasus—allow the transfer into their storage systems of emails saved in standalone programs like Pegasus?

In truth, I don’t think I’ll quit Pegasus, but I’d still like to know what’s possible relative to my stored memorabilia emails.

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No NEED for email. But if you want email, an email client is a beautiful thing. So much friendlier than webmail. But each to their own. I can finally stand to read my gmail now that I setup Thunderbird for it.

🍻

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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WSGeo

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The advantage with a desktop email client is that you can use it when you’re offline. I’ll often use my laptop on long car trips (sitting in the passenger side, of course). And it’s handy to be able to review and access my existing emails as well as write new messages and then sync everything once I’m back online.

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Any suggestions for an email program for the Amazon Fire? The Fire’s standard email app no longer supports Gmail—or, rather, Gmail has made changes that the Fire’s app can’t handle— and what’s available from Amazon’s app store is pretty lackluster.

I suppose I could sideload BlueMail.

Thanks.

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I think the discussion didn’t adequately address the important difference between email stored somewhere (insecurely) on the cloud, and programs which work from your desktop.  And between POP and IMAP services.  And also that the Email program one uses is not the same as the email provider – if you use Gmail you’re stuck with all those messages being up on Google’s servers.

I personally have no interest in any client which is not on my desktop.  Any glitch of any sort for a non-desktop client can be disaster – and the possible glitches range from the minor to a company going down or dropping a service (and how often has that happened!!).  And things like Gmail, Outlook, Yahoo, and the rest must be about the most insecure way to manage any of your information.

So a desktop client it is.   I’m one of those still using the venerable Eudora, which in the ’90’s was the most widely used desktop email program – and I can still access all of those messages today – and all of the messages have been retrieved via POP and deleted from the various email accounts that I access them from.  It hasn’t been supported by the company for 17 years but an active community still supports it, and other groups are updating it to address the few issues that don’t work well with Win10.

Richard

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Cybertooth, Wayne, wdburt1, wavy

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I use Outlook 2016, on desktop, as part of Office. Though I have looked periodically for a new client.  I can no longer POP gmail accounts since gmail changed requirements a couple of months ago.  However my main email service is Fastmail, which is set up as imap.  all others remain POP.  For whatever email I care about that goes to gmail accounts I set up forwarding to another non-gmail accounts.  The rest I don’t see anymore.

I last tried Thunderbird a couple of years ago. I found it to be extremely time consuming to set up: want folders? need an addon. want to manually order folders? need another addon.  which addon? have to search and compare the different addons and whether they work in this version.  etc, etc. And then the issue of moving contacts info from outlook to t’bird.  t’bird field mapping was unbelievably clumsy and would take days, and didn’t seem to have all the fields needed. there is a newly released version of t’bird, which may be more usable for me.  At some point I may take a look.  for now I suffer along with outlook.

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You can use POP accounts with Gmail – it just has to be set up separately.   Thunderbird doesn’t have that great a reputation among the Eudora crowd.

Pandora email client works well with everything, is not dissimilar to Eudora, and is developed by a very responsive developer who listens to his clients.    $14, I believe – managable cost!

Richard

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It’s a few years since I needed to look at Android e-mail clients, but I do recall evaluating Blue and Nine.  I settled on Nine, paid for the commercial version (after 14 days the free version is sorely restricted)

The major thing that put me off Blue, and as I say this was a few years ago so it may work diffferently now, was that the email client did not connect to your mail boxes. It connected to a Blue server, which would retreive your email and then pass it on to the client. Personally I didn’t like that.  Also, I think I recall that deleting the account from the phone app did not remove the server connection to my mailbox.

Just thought I’d leave this here as a heads up for anyone interested

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I use Microsoft 365/Outlook for three accounts, all POP, all set to retain on server unless/until deleted from Outlook.  Works just fine, have multiple folders for all three accounts.

I don’t care about gmail, but I do have a few gmail ghost registration accounts that I never check.  I have an outlook.com account and two accounts served by my web hosting company.  Very negligible problem with spam or lost email.

I don’t use ISP email anymore, don’t even setup an account.  When I was on DSL my phone company changed names three times over the course of a few years.  I changed to my web host mail service about 8 years ago and haven’t looked back.  I can’t remember ever having a problem with Outlook.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We were all once "Average Users". We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do to our systems, we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

Computer Specs

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Richard Merchant wrote:

You can use POP accounts with Gmail – it just has to be set up separately.   Thunderbird doesn’t have that great a reputation among the Eudora crowd.

Pandora email client works well with everything, is not dissimilar to Eudora, and is developed by a very responsive developer who listens to his clients.    $14, I believe – managable cost!

Richard

POP gmail through desktop Outlook does Not work any longer.  I had it working for years, using the gmail ‘app specific password’  until a week after the date google said it would no longer work. It stopped.  they consider Outlook to be insecure.  iow: they want you to visit their website.

If you have a tested way to make it work, I’d like to hear about it.

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It still worked for me, last time I tried, even with Outlook 2007.

When did Google say it would stop working?

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cyraxote wrote:

It still worked for me, last time I tried, even with Outlook 2007.

When did Google say it would stop working?

this past May if i remember correctly.  google sent emails announcing the stop date.

when is the last time you tried using pop for gmail in outlook?

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It was before May 2022, for sure. I have never received any e-mails from Google about it…

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For me, what’s described here is still true:

https://www.slipstick.com/outlook/outlook-gmails-secure-apps-setting/

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I too use POP3 to access my Gmail account using Outlook 365.  It stopped working for me a couple of months ago – up until then all the advice I received said that I didn’t have to do anything since I was on Outlook 365.  Not so.

I think that Gmail only continued to work on 365 if you used IMAP (in fact when setting up an Outlook 365 connection, Outlook assumes you are using IMAP – you have to intervene manually to change to POP3).

I read through all the Google references about this, but they were (to my aging brain) as dense as mud.  And the references were circular – one would point to another which would point back to the first one.

There were mentions about upgrading to 2FA, but I couldn’t see how this would work in practice.  Outlook logs in to Gmail periodically throughout the day – how would it apply the second factor on top of the usual password each time?

Anyway after about a week I was getting nowhere, so I decided I had nothing to lose, and I went ahead and set up 2FA.  But before I could access email again, I had to obtain a password for the Outlook app (unique to my PC and that Gmail account).  I think maybe it needed 2FA just to verify my setup in order to grant the app password.

In any case, I got the app password, used it to replace my existing password and suddenly I was back in business!  Everything works again as it always has.

So in summary, despite confusing documentation (to me at least), it all boils down to two basic steps:

1. Implement 2FA;
2. Use it and your old password to obtain an app password, then use that to access your Gmail account.

If you have more than one Gmail account accessed via Outlook, I expect that you will have to do this for each account.

HTH,
LH.

Dell Precision 3630 w/32 GB RAM, 500 GB (C:), 1 TB (D:)
Window 10 Pro x64
Internet: FTTC (Fibre to the Kerb)

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I can try doing this.  the slipstick instructions made some allusion to this but I wasn’t sure about it.

If it works, it will further cement my disdain for google.  I already was using their special app passwords to allow pop in outlook. if this works, it sounds like their only interest was in making people go through the nonsense once again. iow: small minded and mean. The end result wouldn’t be different than what already was happening.

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I tried turning on 2fa and getting app password.  You are correct.  I was able to access mail with outlook.  otoh, i was then required to use 2fa thru phone to log in to webmail.  not that I do so often.  not sure that is a trade off i want to deal with.

Besides, when I saw the email that wasn’t forwarded, and that i didn’t have to delete after it was downloaded into outlook, I felt better about  no pop.

but good to know that it is an option.

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Lance, You sure got it right when you described Outlook and its options.  Too many options, too much that can come undone.  I support numerous clients who use Outlook, and I dread doing so.

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Thanks. As I said, I do use Outlook as my main email program. But like so many Microsoft products, it’s overwhelming and cursed with way too many features. I’ve used Outlook for years so I know how to use it to do what I want. But I still wish the program were simpler and way more user friendly.

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Not to mention it’s anemic,  not always successful, search functions.   And absurdly large data file.  and inability to backup and transfer accounts.   Outlook is designed to have a corporate IT dept behind it.

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I’ve started using Proton mail. It works kind of like Gmail but nobody but the recipient can know what is in the message. I was hoping to see a comment from someone about it,  since I’ve just started using it and would like to read what others had to say.

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Why do you need an email program? I use Thimbal which runs on my own mail server. I access it through the browser.

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The average person doesn’t run their own mail server 🙂

Susan Bradley Patch Lady

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Fred King wrote:

I’ve started using Proton mail. It works kind of like Gmail but nobody but the recipient can know what is in the message. I was hoping to see a comment from someone about it,  since I’ve just started using it and would like to read what others had to say.

i have protonmail accounts.  i can’t remember all details for sure, but unless you get a paid account, there is no pop (and maybe imap) access.

and since people are mentioning email providers,  there is also vivaldi, who also makes the browser that I use.  It does POP, but doesn’t have some features, eg: forwarding.

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Protonmail (CH) is just good, so is their VPN, though remember that a courtorder may result in handing over the metadata. So that can be used as circumstantial evidence, and this was when chasing terrorist-suspects.
Vivaldi jurisdiction is in Norway, and supposed to be good too.
Interesting to investigate is pCloud’s email originated in the EU (CH an GDPR), when you choose according settings.

* _ the metaverse is poisonous _ *

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Proton Mail anyone?

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Protonmail (CH) is just good, so is their VPN, though remember that a courtorder may result in handing over the metadata. So that can be used as circumstantial evidence, and this was when chasing terrorist-suspects.

* _ the metaverse is poisonous _ *

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Here’s an endorsement for Thunderbird, which I’ve been thrilled with since taking the plunge about a year ago. Got most of the features, and just works.

Here’s  the complaint that I see with T-bird (as well as Outlook), that’s just head-scratching. Why can’t they “preview” the actual sender when I hover the From field of an unopened message? In this age of think before you click, seems a must-do. Am I missing it?

Anyway, a great compilation of these programs, Lance.

 

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Cybertooth, wavy

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That would be very nice! Or maybe an addon that would show it, w/o opening it.

🍻

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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WSGeo, Cybertooth

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A somewhat cumbersome alternative:
in Server Settings, set ‘Fetch headers only’.
When a message then is clicked, only From, Subject, and To are displayed.
And:

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wavy wrote:

Why can’t they “preview” the actual sender

I can see the sender in all email in TB without even previewing it.
What do you think is missing?

cheers, Paul

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In the last couple of weeks alone, I have received junk mail from “AOL”, “Costco”, “McAfee” and “The Home Depot”. This is what the email is advertised as when you’re looking at it in the inbox panel; it’s only when you select the e-mail (to either open it or to view it in the preview panel) that you can see the actual email address it came from: typically, an individual or group whose account was hacked and is now being used to send out spam.

I’m pretty sure that what @WSgeo and @wavy would like is the ability to hover the mouse pointer over the sender’s name in the inbox, to see the real address that the email came from. That way we wouldn’t have to select the email first to discover that it’s not what it claims to be.

 

Keep Running Windows 7 Safely for Years to Come  
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wavy

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Cybertooth wrote:

In the last couple of weeks alone, I have received junk mail from “AOL”, “Costco”, “McAfee” and “The Home Depot”.

With Gmail you get company logos in messages to verify legitimate senders

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Cybertooth

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“can provide their validated trademarked logos to Google”

So this only works if the receiver has a gmail account and uses the gmail interface/app and the sender has put in the effort for what may be a small percentage of email recipients.

Google would have been better off improving their spam filters so that the spam is marked as such in the first place.

cheers, Paul

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Paul T wrote:

Google would have been better off improving their spam filters so that the spam is marked as such in the first place.

Gamil’s spam filter excellent.

Paul T wrote:

So this only works if the receiver has a gmail account and uses the gmail interface/app and the sender has put in the effort for what may be a small percentage of email recipients.

Gmail remains the most popular email platform with over 1.8 billion users worldwide.

TB, Outlook… pulling Gamil mail should present the logo. They also should implement BIDI.

Google implements the BIMI standard. Senders doesn’t have to put in the effort…

https://kinsta.com/email-market-share/

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oldfry

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Alex5723 wrote:

Google implements the BIMI standard. Senders doesn’t have to put in the effort…

Bank of America describes it as an effort:

Bank of America has a wide range of security measures in place to support our customers, and we constantly evolve our program to deliver best in class protection. Part of this effort is our partnership with Google on BIMI, which provides an easy way to validate if correspondence is from us.
…
Organizations who authenticate their emails using Sender Policy Framework (SPF) or Domain Keys Identified Mail (DKIM) and deploy DMARC can provide their validated trademarked logos to Google via a Verified Mark Certificate (VMC).

Gmail will show company logos in messages to verify legitimate senders

Windows 11 Pro version 22H2 build 22621.1778 + Microsoft 365 + Edge

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oldfry

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Yes, the GMail spam filter is terrific.   Rare for me to get spam, perhaps a couple of times a quarter.  The rest of mail received was triggered by my action.   The only downside is false positives.  Rarely I need to log into the web interface and mark a message as not spam.

Even more rare is getting phishing email, sometimes with attachments.  One time I clicked on a phishing email attachment and the security suite caught it in real-time.   Unexpected attachments in an email are a red flag.

BIMI defined: https://postmarkapp.com/blog/what-the-heck-is-bimi

 

Windows 10 22H2 desktops & laptops on Dell, HP, ASUS; No servers, no domain.

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JC Zorkoff

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Re Proton, (Paid I think) they have a “bridge” so you can download emails to your PC if you wish.  It is a bit fiddly, though, and their web GUI is quite poor.

They have 5 or 6 alias email addresses in the paid version, but I found it very difficult to manage so many and was always replying or writing using the wrong address.

You can also use your own domain, if you have one.

But they have a very responsive and friendly Help desk, and I love their attitude towards security and freedom.

In reply to Richard about Eudora – That was the best.

RobB

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