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  • Chredge is available now

    Home Forums AskWoody blog Chredge is available now

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      • #2085305 Reply
        woody
        Da Boss

        Be still my beating heart. The Chromium-engine based version of Edge, which Mary Jo calls “Chredge,” just made an appearance on the Microsoft download
        [See the full post at: Chredge is available now]

      • #2085312 Reply
        jabeattyauditor
        AskWoody Lounger

        Not sure what’s different on my system (PC running 1909 & latest Chrome), but I was presented with the appropriate Windows 10 download:

        newedge

        Looks like the drop-down gives access to the other versions:

        newedge2

        Attachments:
        • #2085339 Reply
          Barry
          AskWoody Plus

          Same here it showed the W10 download using chrome.

          Barry (Seeker)
          Windows 10 Home V 1909

      • #2085333 Reply
        b
        AskWoody Plus

        Yes, you can run Chredge and Oldedge simultaneously, but why bother?

        Not unless you block the release version and install one of the Insider channels (Beta/Dev/Canary) instead, or enable “Allow Microsoft Edge Side by Side browser experience” in Group Policy before install:

        When you install Microsoft Edge on an up-to-date Windows 10 device, it will replace the previous (legacy) version on your device.
        Installing the new Microsoft Edge

        This article describes how to access Microsoft Edge Legacy (version 45 and earlier) after installing the new version of Microsoft Edge.
        Access Microsoft Edge Legacy after installing the new version of Microsoft Edge

        Windows 10 Pro Version 2004: Group ASAP (chump/pioneer)

        • #2085416 Reply
          anonymous
          Guest

          So, if Credge removes Oldedge is there a way to leverage that and just remove Oldedge without installing Credge?  Sounds like a Dr. Seuss sentence.  🙂

        • #2087697 Reply
          Tex265
          AskWoody Plus

          This article describes how to access Microsoft Edge Legacy (version 45 and earlier) after installing the new version of Microsoft Edge. Access Microsoft Edge Legacy after installing the new version of Microsoft Edge

          Article says to Open Group Policy Editor and under Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > Microsoft Edge Update > Applications  select “Allow Microsoft Edge Side by Side browser experience”.

          I’m running Windows 10 Pro x64 v1903 and my Group Policy Editor does not show a Microsoft Edge Update category or any of the other path references.

          Am I missing a Group Policy Add-in?

          Windows 10 Pro x64 v1909 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 (RIP)
      • #2085370 Reply
        zasdman
        AskWoody Plus

        I get Italian EULA when I go to download…

        spanish

        • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by zasdman.
        • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by zasdman.
        Attachments:
        • #2085375 Reply
          jabeattyauditor
          AskWoody Lounger

          Do you use a VPN service to connect to the Internet?

          • #2085380 Reply
            zasdman
            AskWoody Plus

            Nope, my geoip location is accurate too

            1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #2085382 Reply
              jabeattyauditor
              AskWoody Lounger

              Weird stuff – usually, it’d pull language localization off of whatever you select during the OOBE setup.

              Maybe it’s an advertisement for one of their translation services?   🙂

              • #2085388 Reply
                zasdman
                AskWoody Plus

                Just tried it again and its in English… not that I wanted it…

        • #2085412 Reply
          b
          AskWoody Plus

          Windows 10 Pro Version 2004: Group ASAP (chump/pioneer)

      • #2085378 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        Downloaded it and it installed in another language. Tried to find a way to get answers on the Microsoft and other websites and got disgusted and uninstalled it…for now.

      • #2085383 Reply
        Microfix
        AskWoody MVP

        Perhaps the Askwoody MS-Defcon level should be applicable to Chredge too /facepalm 🙂

        Win7 Pro x86/x64 | Win8.1 Pro x64 | Linux Hybrids x86/x64 |
      • #2085390 Reply
        agoldhammer
        AskWoody Plus

        Upside – will be supported on Win7 for another 18 months

        Downside – Firefox is still the champion

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2085396 Reply
        UncleRemus83
        AskWoody Lounger

        So when I went to download it (using Edge Beta I might add), it thought I was on Windows 10.  So I selected 8.1, and then it presented everything in French, even though it was en-us in the URL and no obvious way to change the language.  Way to bungle a roll out.

      • #2085399 Reply
        mlmarshal
        AskWoody Plus

        When I clicked on the WinX version using Firefox 77 via a Canadian service, I get offered a German version. A straight load in Chrome 79 doesn’t do anything. Brave 1.2.42 offers me Italian. Waterfox 2019.12 offers me a Russian — or at least Cyrillic — version. Would that I were multilingual….

        There are 10 kinds of people:
        those who understand binary numbers
        and those who don't.

      • #2085404 Reply
        mlmarshal
        AskWoody Plus

        When I clicked on the WinX version using Firefox 77 via a Canadian service, I get offered a German version. A straight load in Chrome 79 doesn’t do anything. Brave 1.2.42 offers me Italian. Waterfox 2019.12 offers me a Russian — or at least Cyrillic — version. Would that I were multilingual….

        P.S. Just tried Edge and it offered me an English version. Whodduh thunkit!

        There are 10 kinds of people:
        those who understand binary numbers
        and those who don't.

      • #2085426 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

         

        Re downloaded the Microsoft edge using Edge and not Firefox…same download result in different language. Then i decided to snoop around and found “C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft\Edge\Application\79.0.309.65\Installer\setup.exe” double clicked on setup.exe and changed it to  an English version and a “Welcome back Stan” as i had tried the Canary version earlier last month. All seems to be fine.  Checked the version and Microsoft Edge is up to date.Version 79.0.309.65 (Official build) (64-bit)

      • #2085486 Reply
        howardagoldberg
        AskWoody Plus

        So, here is a question for everyone …

        I have installed ‘Chredge’ on two Win10 Pro x64 1909 systems. No issues.

        However, unlike ‘Old Edge,’ the new Edge actually shows up in the list of programs (Control Panel) that can be uninstalled!

        Does this mean that one could hypothetically, uninstall Edge, once the ‘new’ Edge has been installed, and have a system with no IE/Edge?

        Aren’t there still Windows sub-systems, etc. that still depend on the MS browser?

        • #2085496 Reply
          PKCano
          Da Boss

          You can’t removel IE. It is an integral part of the OS.
          You can remove access from the GUI (Control Panel\Programs and Features\Turn Windows features on or off), but other Windows processes use it, so it cannot be uninstalled completely.

        • #2085555 Reply
          anonymous
          Guest

          Uninstalling Chromium Edge will result in the old Edge browser re-appearing in your start menu.

      • #2085557 Reply
        TheOwner
        AskWoody Lounger

        New Edge was released today after WIN 7 end of support and it supports Win 7. I missing something?

      • #2085738 Reply
        CraigS26
        AskWoody Plus

        Inst’d to 1909 via this Thread’s Link and No Issues.

        Edge is usually used Just to “Test/Compare” when FF has “quirky behavior” issues. Wonder IF MS will ever allow “Switch immediately to New Tab when opened” as FF allows? You’d think the majority wants to See WHAT they JUST Clk’d on / would drive me nuts IF I used it much at all……

         

         

        W10-64 1909 Home / Hm-Stdnt Ofce '16 C2R / HP Envy i5-8400/ 12 GB / 256G SSD + 1 TB HDD / InSpectre #8 = GREEN

        • #2085789 Reply
          b
          AskWoody Plus

          Wonder IF MS will ever allow “Switch immediately to New Tab when opened” as FF allows? You’d think the majority wants to See WHAT they JUST Clk’d on / would drive me nuts IF I used it much at all……

          Ctrl+Shift+click does that in all versions of Microsoft Edge.

          Windows 10 Pro Version 2004: Group ASAP (chump/pioneer)

      • #2085755 Reply
        joep517
        AskWoody MVP

        A tweet yesterday from Edge Dev account:
        “We’ve seen some reports about the browser being installed in a language other than the expected language. Our team is aware and working diligently to resolve. Please keep an eye out here for any updates!”

        So, it is a known problem being addressed.

        --Joe

      • #2085776 Reply
        bbearren
        AskWoody MVP

        Even though it is based on the open-source Chromium engine, that Chromium engine is from Google, the hands-down biggest privacy-invading, internet tracking, fingerprinting, data-selling, ad-targeting, etc. on the internet.  I use Firefox.

        I simply do not trust google as far as I could throw their headquarters building.  I don’t use their search engine, I use DuckDuckGo.  And I’d never buy a Chromebook.

        Create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates, in case you need to start over!
        "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns
        "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #2085894 Reply
          b
          AskWoody Plus

          Even though it is based on the open-source Chromium engine, that Chromium engine is from Google, the hands-down biggest privacy-invading, internet tracking, fingerprinting, data-selling, ad-targeting, etc. on the internet.

          But with 53 Google services removed:

          How is Microsoft’s Chromium-based Edge really different from Chrome?

          Windows 10 Pro Version 2004: Group ASAP (chump/pioneer)

          • #2086238 Reply
            bbearren
            AskWoody MVP

            Firefox has everything I want in a web browser.  I have no compelling reason to change to a Google developed browser, regardless of how many Google/Chrome-specific services have been removed.  It’s a non-starter.

            Create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates, in case you need to start over!
            "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns
            "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware

            1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2085777 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        The new Edge runs well on my ThinkPad Win7 Pro.

      • #2085806 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        Apparently Chredge is also offered to Enterprise LTSC users, which is an oddity considered the sku’s update model and that it wasn’t supposed to be offered for enterprise/edu in first place. workaround is this regtweak.
        https://forums.mydigitallife.net/threads/discussion-windows-10-enterprise-n-ltsc-2019.76325/page-243#post-1571580

      • #2085888 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        https://www.zdnet.com/article/how-is-microsofts-chromium-based-edge-really-different-from-chrome/

         

        Please read the above, in particular, the services that microsoft removed. IMO currently using Slimjet, as it has ad blocking built in, One does not normally use a product with less then the original so a simple question : Why change from Chrome to Chrome Edge? Why not go to a program like Slimjet (which I discovered for use with Vista ), that also using the Blink but  is not directly connected to Google?

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2085896 Reply
        Alex5723
        AskWoody Plus

        But with 53 Google services removed:

        I lost the placement of the original post here on askwoody regarding ChrEdge:

        I knew there will be some catch. See that chredge is snooping my information even if I turned both telemetry switches to OFF? Chredge somehow “logged me into Chrome with my device account credentials” !!! including my PC username and domain!!! Oh ! now my credentials are exposed on some server including my domain account? This is serious. Serious privacy invasion and security risk from my angle of view. If it gets my full name somehow, there is possibility to know our domain users login name convention. So this is the end. I will never use it anymore, this is just too enormous betrayal

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #2085913 Reply
          jabeattyauditor
          AskWoody Lounger

          To be fair, the screen reads that you’ve been logged into EDGE with your domain credentials, not into Chrome.

          It seems odd to me to trust the server OS, Active Directory, and the OS on your PC (all no doubt written and provided by Microsoft), but not to trust a program running on top of that environment with your credentials.

          The browser is just being polite enough to tell you the name it has created/is using for your profile.

          How would you prefer it keep your settings isolated from anyone else who uses the same equipment?

          2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #2085923 Reply
            Alex5723
            AskWoody Plus

            I am not the original poster who also added a screen shot of Google auto log-in with his credentials when using ChrEdge.

          • #2086203 Reply
            doriel
            AskWoody Lounger

            I posted that screenshot.

            Microsoft Edge saves your browsing history—info about the websites you visit—on your device. Depending on your settings, this browsing history is sent to Microsoft, which helps us find and fix problems and improve our products and services for all users. You can manage this data collection in the browser by selecting …

            Microsoft Edge, browsing data, and privacy

            To be honest, telemetry was off by default in chredge (maybe according to my GPO settings?)
            To be honest, it works very well and I had experienced no bug.

            But why should be my domain collected and username collected? Never seen this before. And I stress, that this browser did this without my permission. Say I am paranoid, but the more data you collect, the more tempting target you are. See O365 online for example.

            EDGE account

            Dell Latitude E6530, Intel Core i5 @ 2.6 GHz, 4GB RAM, WX 1809 Enterprise

            HAL3000, AMD Athlon 200GE @ 3,4 GHz, 8GB RAM, Fedora 29

            • #2086463 Reply
              b
              AskWoody Plus

              I posted that screenshot.

              Microsoft Edge saves your browsing history—info about the websites you visit—on your device. Depending on your settings, this browsing history is sent to Microsoft, which helps us find and fix problems and improve our products and services for all users. You can manage this data collection in the browser by selecting …

              Microsoft Edge, browsing data, and privacy

              To be honest, telemetry was off by default in chredge (maybe according to my GPO settings?)
              To be honest, it works very well and I had experienced no bug.

              But why should be my domain collected and username collected? Never seen this before. And I stress, that this browser did this without my permission. Say I am paranoid, but the more data you collect, the more tempting target you are. See O365 online for example.

              EDGE account

              What’s the relevance of browsing history?

              Depends what you mean by “collected”.

              EDGE account link is legacy Edge.

              Windows 10 Pro Version 2004: Group ASAP (chump/pioneer)

              • #2087529 Reply
                doriel
                AskWoody Lounger

                Sorry, maybe I was too sceptic and upset. Chredge works as intended, I tested it for few days. I respect if you feel otherwise.

                Answers to your questions are:
                I thought, that browsing history is being stored to my Edge account.
                By collecting I mean storing information about user on the server.
                I thought Edge and Chredge accounts are similar thing.

                Dell Latitude E6530, Intel Core i5 @ 2.6 GHz, 4GB RAM, WX 1809 Enterprise

                HAL3000, AMD Athlon 200GE @ 3,4 GHz, 8GB RAM, Fedora 29

                1 user thanked author for this post.
                b
      • #2085909 Reply
        Kathy Stevens
        AskWoody Plus

        While all eyes are focused on Edge, Mozilla – the maker of Firefox – is laying off staff.

        If you have not contributed $$$ to Mozilla and use their products it is time to support the organization.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #2085974 Reply
          wavy
          AskWoody Plus

          Why would I do that?? They have abandoned any thing I recognize as good. Granted if Moz falls Palemoon\Waterfox may not be far behind. I will cry a bit that is life in this age, the old no matter how well crafted falls under the new and flashy.

          🍻

          Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.
          • #2086350 Reply
            AlexEiffel
            AskWoody_MVP

            I can understand that.

            But… to me, it comes down primarily to

            1) having a really good browser that is oriented on privacy and that can manage ads and scripts pretty well with its extensions.

            2) encouraging a diversity of rendering engines so we don’t end up back in time again where some web sites would not work with anything else than IE with its non standard extensions.

            Putting chromium into Edge was a genius idea for Microsoft. In addition to cutting costs, it might forces indirectly casual users to use one of two evils if you see things that way. Me, I don’t care much for discussions about browsers unless my browser of always, Firefox, is threatened.

            Frankly, I don’t even get much why so many not that powerful users feel so strongly about browsers and how their productivity is so threatened by using a browser or another, or their current browser is so lacking that they really need to try a new browser, no offense intended. I get that some users, and you very well might be one of them, are really using browsers to bring their productivity to a higher level, but it is probably a very tiny minority. Well, Maybe I get it when I have to use a vanilla Safari on IOS and get inundated with ads. I should try again to plug Focus into it when I have time, hoping it won’t freeze the phone this time.

            Despite all the complaints about Firefox lately, it has worked extremely well in our organization for years, I am not scared its background updates will introduce privacy-invading features or security issues and it is very easy to manage and keep updated. I use its basic pdf reader as a first line of defense shield for pdf vulnerabilities that mostly affect Reader. Last time I checked, its color management was much better than others like IE that is awful on a wide-gamut screen.

            Noel Carboni loves (loved?) IE because it starts fast (or is it pre-started but the end result is the same) and he could tweak it the way he wanted, lean and mean. It made sense for him and I respect that. Edge or ChrEdge with the new Nadella Microsoft or Chrome are just alternatives that I won’t consider. Edge as presented originally years ago as a spartian alternative was a breath of fresh air when browsers (IE) were too powerful and insecure by default, but it turned out to be a bloated marketing machine at the service of Microsoft services, so the vision went down the tub with my interest when I realized that. Maybe it could have been great under the previous Microsoft.

            Firefox is quick enough and works just like I want : it lets me focus on my job and gets out of my way without having me worry about unnecessary things. Can I understand some users are disappointed about some UI changes over the years and the fact that traditional extensions disappeared? Sure. But for my users and me, “It just works” goes a long way.

            2 users thanked author for this post.
            • #2086448 Reply
              Kathy Stevens
              AskWoody Plus

              I agree.

              I go to FireFox first, then Thor, then Opera.  I avoid Edge at all cost – to protect my online privacy – and use Internet Explorer as a last resort for the same reason.

              Don’t forget that Mozilla is laying off staff due to financial considerations and FireFox users need to support the organization financially to keep it healthy and insure FireFox’s future.

              • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by Kathy Stevens.
              • #2086519 Reply
                b
                AskWoody Plus

                I avoid Edge at all cost – to protect my online privacy

                Configure your privacy settings so they’re right for you
                [new Microsoft Edge]

                Windows 10 Pro Version 2004: Group ASAP (chump/pioneer)

              • #2086530 Reply
                Kathy Stevens
                AskWoody Plus

                Interesting but not informative.

                You can spend all the time you want configuring your privacy settings in any Microsoft application including Edge BUT the 33,500-word (65 page) Microsoft Privacy Statement governs how Microsoft harvests data from your computers (and gathers it from other sources) and is then free to use your data as it sees fit. It is also free to change the terms and conditions of their Privacy Statement at any time.

                And, if my experience with Windows 10 is representative, you will need to check and possibly reset the privacy settings of Microsoft applications each time they are updated.

                I use CCleaner several times a day to clean potentially unwanted files from my computer. Each time I run the application the largest number of files removed come from Edge and Internet Explorer even though I do not open them.

                In fact, I just ran CCleaner, turned off my machine, and restarted it. I then ran CCleaner before opening any other applications and guess what – it removed 62 files (5,527 KB) from Microsoft Edge’s Internet Cache, one file (2KB) of Microsoft Edge Cookies, etc. And I hadn’t done anything but turn on the computer!

                Under its current corporate management, Microsoft is driven by the bottom line and will generate revenue and reduce expenses in any way possible including the monetization of personal information and releasing products before they are fully vetted. Think about the most recent reincarnation of Edge and Windows 10 1909.

                Fortunately, Microsoft is not building highway bridges over major rivers. If they were a lot of people would drown while the firm was gaining feedback from wet users and refining small points of engineering design.  But then again, what is the cost to the economy of corporate IT staffs having to tweak new Microsoft software upon its release?

                Thank you no. I avoid Microsoft products to the extent possible to protect my personal privacy and not have to fiddle with updates.

                Unfortunately, I am stuck with their operating system. I have decades of experience using and a substantial investment in Windows-based software and, as a result, I am not free to move to another operating system.

                3 users thanked author for this post.
              • #2086532 Reply
                b
                AskWoody Plus

                You can spend all the time you want configuring your privacy settings in any Microsoft application including Edge BUT the 33,500-word (65 page) Microsoft Privacy Statement governs how Microsoft harvests data from your computers (and gathers it from other sources) and is then free to use your data as it sees fit. It is also free to change the terms and conditions of their Privacy Statement at any time.

                You own your data
                Microsoft will use your customer data only to provide the services we have agreed upon, and for purposes that are compatible with providing those services. We do not share your data with our advertiser-supported services, nor do we mine it for marketing or advertising.
                https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/trust-center/privacy/data-management

                (BTW, “… other sources”?)

                Under its current corporate management, Microsoft is driven by the bottom line and will generate revenue and reduce expenses in any way possible including the monetization of personal information and releasing products before they are fully vetted. Think about the most recent reincarnation of Edge and Windows 10 1909.

                The reincarnated Edge has been in beta testing for nine months before release this week. Version 1909 has a couple of bugs in File Explorer search that most people will never notice, but which have been fixed for the next version. How exactly does Microsoft monetize your or my personal information?

                Windows 10 Pro Version 2004: Group ASAP (chump/pioneer)

              • #2086593 Reply
                Kathy Stevens
                AskWoody Plus

                The Microsoft Privacy Statement may be found at https://privacy.microsoft.com/en-us/privacystatement .

                A quick search of the Statement did not find the language you mention regarding the sharing of data.

                I will be guided by the language drafted by Microsoft’s legal team and agreed to when you install Microsoft software not that of its public relations department.

                • This reply was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by Kathy Stevens.
              • #2086671 Reply
                b
                AskWoody Plus

                The Reasons we share personal data section does not align with your contention that “Microsoft … is then free to use your data as it sees fit.”

                Windows 10 Pro Version 2004: Group ASAP (chump/pioneer)

              • #2086705 Reply
                Kathy Stevens
                AskWoody Plus

                So how does Microsoft collect and use your data?

                The following is taken from the introductory pages of their Privacy Statement and is only a very brief summary of the 33,500-word document:

                • Data gathered includes:
                  • “Data about your use of Microsoft products including but not limited to: “Data about the webpages you visit.”; “Data about your interests and favorites, such as the sports teams you follow, the programming languages you prefer, the stocks you track, or cities you add to track things like weather or traffic.”; “Information about media content (e.g., TV, video, music, audio, text books, apps, and games) you access through our products.”; “Search queries and commands when you use Microsoft products with search or related productivity functionality.”; “Data about your contacts and relationships if you use a product to share information with others, manage contacts, communicate with others, or improve your productivity.”; and the list goes on.
                  • Content including: “Communications, including audio, video, text (typed, inked, dictated, or otherwise), in a message, email, call, meeting request, or chat.”; “Photos, images, songs, movies, software, and other media or documents you store, retrieve, or otherwise process with our cloud.”; and the list goes on.
                • And how do they use our personal data including:
                  • Personalizing their (Microsoft’s) products and make recommendations; “Advertise and market to you, which includes sending promotional communications, targeting advertising, and presenting you relevant offers.”;
                  • “… Microsoft Store uses information about the apps and services you use to make personalized app recommendations.”;
                  • “We use data we collect to deliver promotional communications.”;
                  • “We use data we collect through our interactions with you, through some of our products, and on third-party web properties, for advertising in our products and on third-party properties.”;
                  • “We also share personal data with vendors or agents working on our behalf ….”;
                  • and the list goes on.

                The above is taken from the Privacy Statement’s introductory pages and explained in greater detail in the remaining 30 pages of text.

                You be the judge.

                1 user thanked author for this post.
              • #2086724 Reply
                b
                AskWoody Plus

                So how does Microsoft collect and use your data?

                Any sources other than our computers?

                The following is taken from the introductory pages of their Privacy Statement and is only a very brief summary of the 33,500-word document:

                Would it take 33,500 words if it said in effect, “We can do anything we want with your data.”

                Do you know of another technology company with a better privacy policy for customers?

                Windows 10 Pro Version 2004: Group ASAP (chump/pioneer)

              • #2086736 Reply
                Kathy Stevens
                AskWoody Plus

                YES!!!!

                Corel – the home of WordPerfect Office and other software for one.

                Then there is FireFox and Thor.

                Then there is TurboCad, MathWorks, and ESRI ArcGIS Pro.

                • This reply was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by Kathy Stevens.
              • #2086698 Reply
                Ascaris
                AskWoody_MVP

                Even as a Microsoft critic, I do believe that MS is using the telemetry data for the purposes of fixing bugs, increasing security, and improving Windows, as they claim (though they can always alter the deal, as you noted).  There has been no evidence that I have seen that MS is using any of the data for advertising purposes.

                I still have a problem with the telemetry, though, for two reasons: First, there should be an OFF switch even if it doesn’t slurp up info for advertising.  I want it off because I am in charge and I should be able to make the decision, not just because I dislike advertising.

                The other thing is that slurping up data from people’s PCs takes on another shade when one realizes that Microsoft eliminated the professional beta testers at the same time that they brought in the telemetry.  I’d be more okay with helping the pro testers make Windows the best it can be, but I’m not okay as being used a beta tester on software that I had to pay for.  A penny saved is a penny earned, so I consider using consumers as beta testers to be a form of monetization.

                If Windows 10 Home was free, including to OEMs, the various forms of monetization would be a lot more tolerable, as it’s understood that MS has to make its money somehow– as long as there was a Pro version that was available for a reasonable price (for example, the price it’s available for right now!) that would eliminate all of the monetization and enable all of the user choice options, like the ability to turn telemetry all the way off, have full control over updates, and the other bits that are currently tightly controlled by Microsoft.  If that was the setup from the start of 10, I’d most likely be using it now, even with my objections to the half-mobile, half-PC UI.

                Group "L" (KDE Neon User Edition 5.18.4).

                3 users thanked author for this post.
              • #2086704 Reply
                b
                AskWoody Plus

                Yes, but the real beta testers are the Insiders who volunteer to run preview versions for about a year before general release. Although I’m not saying it’s an efficient system, as the Feedback Hub is a pathetic failure in my opinion.

                Windows 10 Pro Version 2004: Group ASAP (chump/pioneer)

          • #2086720 Reply
            Ascaris
            AskWoody_MVP

            I can understand this.  Mozilla has been following a terrible strategy of copying Chrome for the better part of a decade, and if you look at the graphs of browser market share, Firefox’s market share began to plummet at the same time.  While that correlation does not imply causation, it does suggest that the “be just like the guy in the lead” strategy has not worked at any point since they put it into effect, and yet they persist.

            A company that sticks to a failed strategy for the better part of a decade after it becomes obvious that the strategy has failed deserves to lose market share.  That’s how competition works.  They have to provide a compelling reason for consumers to not to use the dominant product, and privacy alone obviously has not captured the imagination of the computing public, most of whom already use Android on their phones.  They gave up on privacy years ago, and have already come to terms with being in thrall to Google.

            I wish it was not so, but one need only look at the market share of Android phones and Chrome to recognize that Firefox’s privacy angle isn’t working.  Mozilla needs more than “It looks and works EXACTLY like Chrome, but is more private” to get people who are unconcerned about privacy to migrate. If it’s just like Chrome but has one extra thing they don’t care about, they’re not going to expend even a tiny bit of energy to migrate to the thing that has that one unwanted feature.

            Even if people who otherwise like Chrome but are concerned about privacy, there are lots of Chromium-based choices with the Googly bits removed, so even that is not a compelling reason to migrate to Firefox (if you believe the developers of such browsers to be competent enough to go through the source code and remove all of the Google stuff, that is.  If they’re not that competent, would you want to be using their product anyway, even if they had written all of the code themselves?).

            While some Chromium-based browsers are nearly identical to Chrome, several of them demonstrate more desire to make something better than Chrome than what we see in Mozilla.  Vivaldi, Opera, Brave, and others all have features that go beyond what Google offers in Chrome, and they’re not afraid to take the “risk” of not being a carbon copy of Chrome in their products.  They’re constantly adding things that are meant to distinguish them from Chrome, while Mozilla persists in removing the remaining bits that distinguish themselves from Chrome.  Unlike the developers of these Chrome forks, Mozilla seems to believe that there is some magic tipping point at which enough Firefox uniqueness will have been removed to cause the Chrome users to come flooding in.

            For Firefox to remain relevant, it has to do something better than Chrome, and that really should be easy, since they’ve been better than Chrome in many ways from the start.  One area in which Chrome is deficient is in its minimalistic, inconvenient, and uncustomizable UI.  That’s an opinion, of course, but that’s the point– one person’s view of what’s ideal isn’t necessarily everyone’s, and only the ability to customize things can accommodate that.  Firefox has long had a much more customizable UI than Chrome, but they’re stripping that out, bit by bit.  They’re dumbing down their UI to be as simplistic as Chrome’s.

            Unfortunately, rather than capitalizing on the parts where they’re better and working to become better in other areas, Mozilla has persisted in copying everything Chrome does and making Firefox look and act accordingly.  Even after all these years of that strategy failing miserably, they keep at it, and Firefox gets worse and worse with each release.  I don’t want Firefox that looks and acts exactly like Chrome but without Google spying.  I want something better than Chrome all around, and without the Google spying!

            So for those of us who don’t like Google because of the usual reasons, and who also do not like Chrome, not just for the spying reasons, but also because we dislike the UI and the feature set, what do we do?  Do we reward Mozilla for systematically stripping our beloved browser of every thing that we used to like about it?  If we give them money, are we not telling them “I love what you’re doing! Keep it up!” If we’re truly disgusted by Mozilla’s steadfast refusal to let Firefox be Firefox, what do we do to get that message through?  The years of falling market share have not made an impression.  The thousands of posts around the web saying exactly what I am saying now haven’t changed as thing.  It’s as if Mozilla is just clamping its hands to its ears and repeating, “Mmm, mmm, mmm, I can’t hear you, I can’t hear you!” as we remaining fans desperately try to save them from themselves.  Do we reward this behavior?

            But if we don’t, then what?  We want Mozilla to persist, certainly; even if they are extremely misguided and stubborn well beyond the point of being a fault, they’re still the “good guys” in this whole thing, but it’s not the handful of remaining Firefox users (and I count myself as one of those, even though I use Waterfox, as Waterfox cannot exist without Firefox) who are driving Mozilla to the point of having to let people go.  They are doing that themselves, and if they do not realize it soon, small donations from regular users like us won’t save them.  They have to change direction or they will all end up changing jobs, and the single-digit percentage of people who still use Firefox will end up changing browsers.

            Group "L" (KDE Neon User Edition 5.18.4).

            3 users thanked author for this post.
            • #2086756 Reply
              b
              AskWoody Plus

              I don’t want Firefox that looks and acts exactly like Chrome but without Google spying.  I want something better than Chrome all around, and without the Google spying!

              Sounds like Microsoft Edge (so you’re on topic). 😁

              Windows 10 Pro Version 2004: Group ASAP (chump/pioneer)

              • #2086978 Reply
                Ascaris
                AskWoody_MVP

                I’d entertain the idea of giving it a try, but I don’t use any of the operating systems upon which it runs. I would not want to swap Google spying for Microsoft spying, if in fact it would be in whatever version I was hypothetically trying.

                “Better,” of course, is highly subjective, and while I would not dismiss Chredge out of hand simply because it’s from MS, I doubt it would meet my definition of “better” as well as it meets yours.  I’ve seen the screenshots, and it seems to be based on the same UI schema as Chrome and unmodified Firefox.  I don’t have a problem with the Chromium base of Edge or any other browser as long as it’s de-Googled, but the UI leaves a lot to be desired.  In my case, “better” would mean having (or having the option for) a traditional menu bar, tab bar under the URL bar and above the content, a status bar, new tab button at the left side of the tab bar and close button on the right, and a regular OS title bar.  Haven’t yet seen a Chrome derivative that ticks all the boxes, but Vivaldi is in the ballpark.  Everyone else just seems to want to ape the Google minimalism that I so detest.

                 

                Group "L" (KDE Neon User Edition 5.18.4).

                2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #2086919 Reply
            anonymous
            Guest

            Hello Wavy,

            I agree completely. I used to be adamant about Firefox and was even a beta tester for years, but they would not listen and went their own way. The new Firefox has features only some millennial programmer wants. I have stopped updating my Firefox and am stuck back in the 50’s (in Firefox versioning).

            I use to push Firefox hard to all my friends and clients. I still recommend it … but ONLY because I like Chrome privacy less.

            1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #2086967 Reply
              Kathy Stevens
              AskWoody Plus

              I have multiple versions of FireFox setup files going back to 1.01.1 that I downloaded in 2005.

              Do you recommend reinstalling an earlier version or should I continue using version 72.0.1 (64-bit)?

              • #2087840 Reply
                AlexEiffel
                AskWoody_MVP

                Running a not updated browser is really not a good idea if you care about security. You are vulnerable to any code trying to exploit an unpatched vulnerability. I would even say it might be less risky to run a non patched Windows 7 running a patched browser than running Windows 10 with an old browser that hasn’t received security updates. You also will miss on some improvements to web standards and others, so I really don’t think it is a good idea.

                Although I didn’t like it when Mozilla changed the UI, I use the content of the browser and not the UI, so it is annoying but it feels like a minor annoyance to me. I don’t like the additions of things like pocket, but I disable it. All things considered, Firefox doesn’t require much maintenance and to me, it works well enough at doing what it should do.

                You have to pick the less bad of the updated browsers. As some as suggested, you might want to try Firefox derivatives if you really can’t stand the current version.

                 

                1 user thanked author for this post.
              • #2088320 Reply
                anonymous
                Guest

                Hello Kathy, Thank you for thanking me. Like AlexE said, if you use a browser that is out of date, there is some possibility of a vulnerability happening. Some of Firefox’s internal blocking is still automatic and updated. For example I believe the below is auto-updated on a regular schedule in your Firefox browser.

                Mozilla blocked Add-ons
                https://blocked.cdn.mozilla.net/

                For what Mozilla has patched see:

                Mozilla Security Advisories
                https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/security/known-vulnerabilities/firefox/

                For getting any older versions of Firefox see:

                Mozilla FTP site to download ANY version of Firefox
                https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/

                If you have backups of your computer (image) or important data, you should be set IF you are willing to make the decision that if you are compromised, no big deal you have backups -OR- are willing to accept the loss. My friend used to say, “it is called coping with loss”.

                If you are using the computer for online purchases or banking, I would recommend you use only the newest browser of any name brand browser you use.

                Also, if you want a slower and lesser (change wise) update schedule, look into the business version called Firefox ESR. https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/68.4.2esr/

                Hope this helps you.

                1 user thanked author for this post.
              • #2088351 Reply
                Kathy Stevens
                AskWoody Plus

                I will be staying with Firefox 72.0.2 (64-bit).

                 

                • This reply was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by Kathy Stevens.
              • #2089045 Reply
                AlexEiffel
                AskWoody_MVP

                That is a good decision, IMHO. If you run an unpatched browser and get infected, it doesn’t really matter after if you use a patched browser only for banking. Once a computer is compromised, there should be zero trust in it. You won’t know if you have a trojan installed in your OS that examines everything you do in your patched browser.

                I also can’t count the number of times people told me they weren’t infected when in fact they were and they just didn’t know about it. Having image backups of an infected computer is not very useful, so before adding more risk to an already not very safe computing landscape in general home use of Windows might not be a good idea for most people except those who are really willing to take the added risk for the convenience provided by earlier releases of a browser.

                 

            • #2087226 Reply
              wavy
              AskWoody Plus

              Try Palemoon, like FF used to be XUL spport for all(well most) of those old extensions. https://www.palemoon.org/

              🍻

              Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.
              1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2085986 Reply
        BobT
        AskWoody Lounger

        So, is it any good?

        • #2085992 Reply
          joep517
          AskWoody MVP

          IMO, yes it is good. Some sync features still not implemented but will be over time. It is solid.

          --Joe

      • #2086102 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        Welp.  Downloaded and tried to install it and it locked up Windows 7.  Had to reboot and then muck out a bunch of junk it left behind (not associated with the browser proper, apparently, but with its updater.) 
        Guess I won’t be using Edge.

      • #2086118 Reply
        Mele20
        AskWoody Lounger

        IMO, yes it is good. Some sync features still not implemented but will be over time. It is solid.

        I read that if you sync with it then you LOSE your local Windows 10 account! I have Microsoft accounts but I ALWAYS use a local account on all versions of Windows I have/have had. Syncing won’t work with an iPhone anyway. I was curious about it but I avoid Google totally (hosts file blockage of all Google stuff). Looks to me that Edge is the better choice. I use it occasionally but HATE the extremely childish stick figures GUI. I see the GUI has not improved in Chredge.

        • #2086121 Reply
          Paul T
          AskWoody MVP

          Where have you heard this? We need more than rumour please.

          cheers, Paul

      • #2086122 Reply
        Alex5723
        AskWoody Plus

        Installed on W10 1903.
        Just tested a standard download of a file and instead got a full page of Chinese AliExpress ad, but no download.
        Went to Google Chrome extensions site and downloaded/installed uBlock Origin.
        Now the file downloaded.

      • #2086142 Reply
        Mele20
        AskWoody Lounger

        It’s being reported in the comments to Martin’s article at gHacks.
        https://www.ghacks.net/2020/01/16/the-new-chromium-based-microsoft-edge-is-now-available/

        • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by Mele20.
      • #2086163 Reply
        Alex5723
        AskWoody Plus

        What about Flash ? Is it baked like with the current IE and Edge ?
        Couldn’t find any Plugins in edge//plugins.

        Tried to run flash and got Plug-in blocked.

        https://blogs.windows.com/msedgedev/2019/08/30/update-removing-flash-microsoft-edge-internet-explorer/

        • #2086212 Reply
          joep517
          AskWoody MVP

          Flash is baked in – the same as in Chrome. It must be enabled per site. It will be removed in 2020.

          --Joe

      • #2086220 Reply
        joep517
        AskWoody MVP

        According to a recent tweet from the Edge Dev group:
        “We appreciate everyone’s patience while we worked on this. We believe this to be resolved now. Multiple locales appeared to be caching and caused some users to see incorrect languages. Let us know if you still don’t see the expected language for your country or region.”

        --Joe

      • #2086260 Reply
        agoldhammer
        AskWoody Plus

        I have a Win7 PC running WMC for my television.  I need a browser for streaming Netflix, Amazon Prime, ESPN+ and Bleacher Report Live.  For some reason Firefox on this OS won’t play BR/Live (I get a bizarre HTML5 error which cannot be true since other things stream just fine) so I need an alternative.  I have been using Opera but they look to be in financial trouble.  I just downloaded Edge and it runs fine on Win7 and I checked all the sites a stream and they all work including BR/Live.  Since MSFT will support this for 18 more months on Win7 it seems to be a good alternative.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2086327 Reply
        Alex5723
        AskWoody Plus

        Flash is baked in – the same as in Chrome. It must be enabled per site. It will be removed in 2020.

        Found Flash settings.

        Attachments:
      • #2086688 Reply
        Lars220
        AskWoody Lounger

        In fact, I just ran CCleaner, turned off my machine, and restarted it. I then ran CCleaner before opening any other applications and guess what – it removed 62 files (5,527 KB) from Microsoft Edge’s Internet Cache, one file (2KB) of Microsoft Edge Cookies, etc. And I hadn’t done anything but turn on the computer!

        Martin Brinkmann over on the ghacks website has some Group Policy for Pro users, and Registry edit for Home users to disable Edge from Startup, it is dated 13 August 2018 , and I have used it on v 1809 with the old Edge, I do not have the new Chredge so I am not sure if it will work on the New Edge.  Check out ghacks website for more info:

        https://www.ghacks.net/2018/08/13/block-windows-10-from-preloading-microsoft-edge-on-start/

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2086710 Reply
        Alex5723
        AskWoody Plus

        How exactly does Microsoft monetize your or my personal information?

        The first time I ran the new Edge on my Windows 10 1903 (testing a file download) I got a full page ad for Chinese AliExpress. Of course Microsoft monetize and share data with 3rd parties. It is in the privacy statement.

        Reasons we share personal data
        We share your personal data with your consent or to complete any transaction or provide any product you have requested or authorized. We also share data with Microsoft-controlled affiliates and subsidiaries; with vendors working on our behalf; when required by law or to respond to legal process; to protect our customers; to protect lives; to maintain the security of our products; and to protect the rights and property of Microsoft and its customers

        https://privacy.microsoft.com/en-us/privacystatement

        • #2086752 Reply
          b
          AskWoody Plus

          The first time I ran the new Edge on my Windows 10 1903 (testing a file download) I got a full page ad for Chinese AliExpress.

          I don’t think Microsoft sent you there. What was the download and where from?

          with vendors [or agents] working on our behalf;

          Why edit the important bit and cut it off halfway through the sentence?

          It continues, “… for the purposes described in this statement. For example, companies we’ve hired to provide customer service support or assist in protecting and securing our systems and services may need access to personal data to provide those functions. In such cases, these companies must abide by our data privacy and security requirements and are not allowed to use personal data they receive from us for any other purpose.

          Windows 10 Pro Version 2004: Group ASAP (chump/pioneer)

      • #2086721 Reply
        Cybertooth
        AskWoody Plus

        While all eyes are focused on Edge, Mozilla – the maker of Firefox – is laying off staff.

        If you have not contributed $$$ to Mozilla and use their products it is time to support the organization.

        A few months ago, Mozilla announced it was moving Firefox to a four-week release schedule, an even more frenetic pace than the six-week (more or less) schedule that they had been following.

        Perhaps they could save on costs without resorting to layoffs, if they slowed down the release schedule. Many of the changes to the browser are unwanted anyway. As one commenter in the linked webpage wrote,

        Ick what a waste of resources and aggravating to many users that just want a working browser that they are familiar with. This constant shifting ground just makes it so people aren’t n a firm foundation at any time. Also I feel it reduces loyalty as people know that whatever they have now may not exist in th next update anyway, may as well move on to the next new shiny thing.

         

         

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2086751 Reply
        Alex5723
        AskWoody Plus

        Do you know of another technology company with a better privacy policy for customers?

        Yes. Apple.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #2088085 Reply
          anonymous
          Guest

          Apple is not the correct answer.  They were caught selling data to Chinese Govt./companies. Who knows what else they are doing on the side.  Policy may say all good things but with small print somewhere there is the clause “Subject to change, without notice.”

          So, the correct answer is, no company.

          I’m not saying to not use the software/hardware provided by these companies.  Just keep as much of your data close to your “chest” as possible.  There is no company that deserves any of your data or trust.

          Apple likes to show up in the news refusing to decrypt someones iThing for authorities.  The scary part is, that they CAN decrypt it if they were paid enough (not necessarily in money) to do so.

          • #2088242 Reply
            Ascaris
            AskWoody_MVP

            Apple likes to show up in the news refusing to decrypt someones iThing for authorities. The scary part is, that they CAN decrypt it if they were paid enough (not necessarily in money) to do so.

            If they’ve done the encryption correctly, they should not be able to get into a phone unless they are able to guess the password or phrase.

            Group "L" (KDE Neon User Edition 5.18.4).

            • #2088261 Reply
              EyesOnWindows
              AskWoody Lounger

              Apple likes to show up in the news refusing to decrypt someones iThing for authorities. The scary part is, that they CAN decrypt it if they were paid enough (not necessarily in money) to do so.

              If they’ve done the encryption correctly, they should not be able to get into a phone unless they are able to guess the password or phrase.

              There is nothing but words and scruples preventing them from simply sending the password or phrase back to their own servers when ever it is changed or entered. Their software is not open to public inspection so you are unaware of any nefarious things they may be doing.

              HP Compaq 6000 Pro SFF PC / Windows 10 Pro / 1803
              Intel®Core™2 “Wolfdale” E8400 3.0 GHz / 4.00 GB
              EyesOnWindows

      • #2087728 Reply
        wavy
        AskWoody Plus

        Chredge ,n Edge side by side two brothers of a different mother or some thing like that.
        After spending a not so good 3 hours trying to get both available via widely publicized Group Policy tweaks using down loaded .admx files to add the templates I never got any change but 2 error popups when I tried to load MMC to access the Group Policy editor, multiple reboots and uninstall/reinstalls I finally just did a Reg merge with
        `Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

        ; Created by: Shawn Brink
        ; Created on: November 8th 2019
        ; Tutorial: https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/144061-enable-microsoft-edge-side-side-browser-experience-windows-10-a.html

        [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\EdgeUpdate]
        “Allowsxs”=-`

        from the included location. Thank You Shawn!!

        🍻

        Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.
        • #2087774 Reply
          b
          AskWoody Plus

          [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\EdgeUpdate]
          “Allowsxs”=-`

          That’s to undo the side-by-side both old and new though. Is that what you want to do?

          Windows 10 Pro Version 2004: Group ASAP (chump/pioneer)

          1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #2087803 Reply
          wavy
          AskWoody Plus

          copied the wrong reg file =dword:00000001 was missing 🤪

          Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00
          
          [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\EdgeUpdate]
          "Allowsxs"=dword:00000001

          🍻

          Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.
          1 user thanked author for this post.
          b
      • #2087822 Reply
        wavy
        AskWoody Plus

        BTW did anybody notice that Chredge brings Outlook, powerpoint, word & excel along with it?
        Clicking on a shortcut brings up a ‘login to MS Account ‘ box. I guess that is some kind of office in the cloud /365 thing. Did not go there 😁

        🍻

        Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.
        • #2172072 Reply
          Tex265
          AskWoody Plus

          BTW did anybody notice that Chredge brings Outlook, powerpoint, word & excel along with it? Clicking on a shortcut brings up a ‘login to MS Account ‘ box. I guess that is some kind of office in the cloud /365 thing

          What exactly is Chredge bringing  and how?   Is it an advertisement or MS Store app or download link?  Is there an install option to accept or reject those being installed?

          I’ve already installed the C2R “owned” version of MS Office 2016 that includes all those and I don’t want conflicts with another.  Also using only a Local Account.

          Windows 10 Pro x64 v1909 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 (RIP)
          • #2172138 Reply
            wavy
            AskWoody Plus

            I have no idea just what this is. I was kinda asking if someone else had an idea…

            🍻

            Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.
          • #2172155 Reply
            joep517
            AskWoody MVP

            I am not sure what @wavy meant but you should not get any installs other than Edge. I have Office 365 apps installed and am running both the Edge Dev and Release channels without any problems between them. You should not have a problem using Edge with a local account.

            --Joe

            • #2172256 Reply
              wavy
              AskWoody Plus

              i will try to answer that tomorrow when I am on the other computer

              OK they appear to be web links that open edge to a MS login page.
              They are listed in the start menu list and under APPS in settings.

              🍻

              Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.
              • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by wavy.
      • #2171625 Reply
        EP
        AskWoody_MVP

        Chredge is now available to Windows 10 v1903 and v1909 users per MS support article 4541302

        https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4541302/the-new-microsoft-edge-is-available

        1903 users will need at least the KB4517389 update in order to receive Chredge thru WU

      • #2171679 Reply
        Alex5723
        AskWoody Plus

        Chredge is now available to Windows 10 v1903 and v1909 users

        Now available ? I have ChrEdge on 1903 for weeks . Updated yesterday to ver 80.0.361.62 fixing CVE-2020-6407, CVE-2020-6418 .

        • #2171702 Reply
          joep517
          AskWoody MVP

          It is availa=ble via Windows update. You don’t have to seek it at the Edge site.

          --Joe

          1 user thanked author for this post.
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