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  • Comments on AKB 2000016: Guide for Windows Update Settings for Windows 10

    Home Forums Knowledge Base Comments on AKB 2000016: Guide for Windows Update Settings for Windows 10

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      • #2141989
        PKCano
        Manager

        Due to the fact that this will be an ongoing discussion, a separate topic has been created.

        Please feel free to ask questions about AKB2000016 here.

        AKB2000016: Guide for Windows Update Settings for Windows 10.

        5 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2141979
        TonyC
        AskWoody Lounger

        I have some comments concerning the document AKB2000016. I don’t currently have a Windows 10 system. I am a Windows 7 user who is now in the process of buying a new PC and trying to decide whether to install Windows 10 Home or Windows 10 Pro on it. Hence my interest in this document.

        1. There are statements on the Internet that the metered connection setting works only for a Wifi connection – it does not work for an Ethernet connection. If this is correct, I think this should be stated in the document. And where would this leave Windows 10 Home users trying to manage updates over an Ethernet connection?

        2. I have seen a Windows 10 Home system (at the 1903 feature level) on display in a local store and, in the Advanced Options section, it also had the ability to set an ending calendar date for pausing updates. It therefore appears that Windows 10 Home and Windows 10 Pro have identical function in the Windows Update GUI for pausing updates. If this is correct, I think this should be stated in the document.

        3. The document suggests specific settings for managing updates to Windows 10 Pro, but it would be useful if it did the same for Windows 10 Home.

        4. The problem I am facing in trying to choose between Windows 10 Home and Windows 10 Pro is that I am trying to build a picture in my mind how I might manage updates with each version. The document lists 4 types of update: Feature, Quality, Optional and Other.

        One issue is how do I find out, for each type of update, what updates are available for download and installation? As a Windows 7 user (and a former user of many of its predecessors), I would be tempted to click “Check for Updates”, but the document explicitly warns you not to do this. I can only assume that they just suddenly appear in the Windows Update GUI.

        Another issue is, once I know, for each type of update, what is available, how do I either hide the update or install it? I am guessing that wushowhide, the “Download” button, and the “Download and install now” instruction have a role to play in this.

        In summary, for my purpose, the document would have been better if it had contained a suggested procedure for managing the updates to each of Windows 10 Home and Windows 10 Pro rather than just suggested settings.

        • #2142032
          b
          AskWoody Plus

          1. There are statements on the Internet that the metered connection setting works only for a Wifi connection – it does not work for an Ethernet connection. If this is correct, I think this should be stated in the document. And where would this leave Windows 10 Home users trying to manage updates over an Ethernet connection?

          Metered connection for Ethernet was not originally available in Settings, but has been since version 1703. So any articles that say metered connection is only available for wi-fi are nearly three years out of date.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #2142124
          PKCano
          Manager

          2. I have seen a Windows 10 Home system (at the 1903 feature level) on display in a local store and, in the Advanced Options section, it also had the ability to set an ending calendar date for pausing updates.

          The information on ending date has been added.

          The answer for #3 – QKB2000016 says:

          The “Pause” period begins when you click “Pause.” If you click “Pause” three times (for example), it will pause updates for 21 days. This should delay updating long enough to see if there any real problems with the patches.

          Another issue is, once I know, for each type of update, what is available, how do I either hide the update or install it? I am guessing that wushowhide, the “Download” button, and the “Download and install now” instruction have a role to play in this.

          That is correct and is covered in the document.

          There is no procedure that is correct for everyone. The individual has to choose the settings that are correct for them. I have given an example in the settings I use for Pro and the reasons I use them. But that does not work for all.

          2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2145795
        DriftyDonN
        AskWoody Plus

        Hmm..I am using win1903 Pro AND Home. (different systems) When the pause function appeared in1903, it was the same on both. At the end of the time period selected, some updates were downloaded and installed without any options. Others waited for click to download. It is worrisome that we are not given the option on EACH update. Perhaps Group Edit in Pro would give more choice but seems Home users are in the dark. Wushowhide therefore would be useful in some instances, not in others.

        Comments?

        Don

      • #2176429
        hms
        AskWoody Plus

        PKCano, thank you so much for your Update Settings guide. It was invaluable in helping me set up a new W10 pc. The update process is so much more complex that W10’s predecessors.

        I began setting up a new W10 pro desktop last week using your recommended settings in your guide. Fortunately, the pc has 1909 installed so I will not have to worry about a version update for awhile.

        Pause Updates: It was set to 7 days as set up from Dell

        Defer Feature Updates: I changed it to 365 I think; thought I could change it again if needed. This option later disappeared.

        Defer Quality Updates: Left at 0.

        Used gpedit to change update setting to “2”.

        Questions:

        1. After setting that, the Defer Feature Updates setting disappeared entirely. Do not know why.
        2. On Monday, Windows Update screen showed about 8 or so pending/available updates. I did not take a photo of the screen. Then the list no longer appears on the screen. I do not know why as the updates were not installed. WUshowhide shows no updates to hide. Is this because “pause updates” is set?
        3. When the Pause Updates day arrives, how do I know what will be installed? In the last paragraph, you state that you can see what updates are pending, but none show up on this pc.
        4. At minimum I should install Svc Stack 4538674 and cum update 4532691 from February. How is this done if there is no list to select from?

        I have spent a number of hours trying to resolve these questions, but my searches have been in vain so far.

        Why did MS make the update process so convoluted when it was simple, although imperfect, before?

        Thanks for your assistance to a W10 novice.

        • #2176440
          PKCano
          Manager

          Read AKB2000016 more closely. It answers all your questions.

          After setting that, the Defer Feature Updates setting disappeared entirely. Do not know why

          Yes. There are settings in Group Policy under Windows Update or Windows Update for Business. As stated, the only setting in Group Policy for Windows Update should be the “2” (notify download/install). The rest should be “Not configured” because any setting there will cause the pulldowns in the WU GUI to be grayed out or disappear. The pulldowns in the GUI is where you should set the Feature/Quality deferrals (they are certainly easier to get to). There are links to show how to set the “2” in AKB2000016.

          Then the list no longer appears on the screen.

          When you defer, pause, or hide updates, you are telling WU NOT to show them as pending. So they won’t show up in the WU queue until the time is over or they are unhidden.

          When the Pause Updates day arrives, how do I know what will be installed? In the last paragraph, you state that you can see what updates are pending, but none show up on this pc.

          When the Pause ends, ALL the available pending updates will download/install irrespective of the “2” setting in Group Policy. Once Pause is ended, you cannot use it again until the pending updates are installed. That is why I do not use Pause (as stated).

           

          • #2176515
            hms
            AskWoody Plus

            Thanks for the response.

            I carefully followed your instructions in sec 3, Group Policy Settings. I set only the “2” notify/download. I did not make any other changes using the Group Policy Settings.

            I left the Pause updates to 7 as that seemed to be the instruction before the Defcon setting was raised to 3. My mistake.

            When paused updates install, will the optional ones install as well?

            • #2176524
              PKCano
              Manager

              When paused updates install, will the optional ones install as well?

              Everything that is pending in the WU queue will install. Probably not the optional ones, b/c they will not appear.

              I carefully followed your instructions in sec 3, Group Policy Settings. I set only the “2” notify/download. I did not make any other changes using the Group Policy Settings.

              You may have only set what I suggested, but you need to look at what the Vendor of the new PC set. The pulldowns in the GUI will not disappear unless there are settings set in Group Policy in Windows Update and/or Windows Update for Business.
              If you use the settings I suggested, you do not need to Pause. The available updates will show in the queue but not download until you click “Download,” thus giving you the chance to hide anything you don’t want to install.
              You need to look at the Pause date end. You can extend it by clicking again on the “Pause” button up to 35 days total. You do not want updates until at least 14-21 days after the next Patch Tuesday (that’s Mar 10). Also, there is a Topic discussing how you can extend it farther here. Once you get past this initial pause, with Pro version, I would recommend not using it again.

              • #2176530
                hms
                AskWoody Plus

                The Feature Update Deferral was there until I made the entry in Windows Update. All other settings in Windows Update section are “not configured”. I do not know how to access the Windows Update for Business.

                I may just have to reinstall windows to get it back.

                 

                PS: After sending this, searched the forum. Woody had an article in Computerworld 11/7/2019 – “Disappearing Windows Update deferral pane suddenly reappears”. The article explains that the deferral option may disappear if one enters a different number. This pertained to 1903 and may apply to 1909 as well. May be fixed with an update. May post something in the general forum to see if anyone else has had the issue.

                • This reply was modified 10 months, 3 weeks ago by hms.
              • #2176534
                PKCano
                Manager

                Windows Update for Business is below Windows update, a “subfolder” of it.
                And, no, you don’t have to reinstall Windows to get it back.
                You should not make the Feature deferral setting in Group Policy – undo that.
                You should use the GUI settings only.
                The only GP setting should be “2”

                • This reply was modified 10 months, 3 weeks ago by PKCano.
              • #2176539
                hms
                AskWoody Plus

                The panel for “Update and Security” has no Business settings folder – just Windows Update.

                I changed Feature Deferral in the Advanced Options screen -Pause Updates section. The Quality Update box is still there, but not the Feature Update. As I mentioned in my amended prior post, it was a problem apparently in 1903. I will post in general forum to see if anyone has had this issue in 1909 so I will not bother you anymore with this minor issue.

                Thanks for your help.

              • #2176540
                PKCano
                Manager

                Please look at this picture. On the left just below the red arrow pointing at Windows Update is Windows update for business.
                It is in Group Policy NOT in the GUI panel.

                • This reply was modified 10 months, 3 weeks ago by PKCano.
              • #2176548
                hms
                AskWoody Plus

                Oops, sorry. Misunderstood that “Business” was in Group Policy. Checked this section – nothing is configured there. I also “unconfigured” the download setting for the time being since “Pause” seems to be controlling anyway.

                Thanks for bearing with me.

              • #2176556
                PKCano
                Manager

                It’s not the “2” you should unconfigure in Group Policy.
                It’s the 365 days deferral that should be unconfigured in Group Policy.
                When you unconfigure the deferral in GP, the pulldown for Feature deferral will reappear in the GUI (you may have to reboot).

              • #2176586
                hms
                AskWoody Plus

                Where is this setting in group policy? I used the GUI drop down when I set it.

              • #2176668
                PKCano
                Manager

                The settings in Group Policy are either under Windows Update or Windows Update for business. See picture in link three posts above.

              • #2176775
                WCHS
                AskWoody Plus

                The available updates will show in the queue but not download until you click “Download,” thus giving you the chance to hide anything you don’t want to install.

                So, 1) the updates appear in the queue with a “Download” button and 2) immediately thereafter, you hide the ones you don’t want to install.

                So, given 1) and 2) above:
                1. Are they hidden immediately, i.e., they then (spontaneously) disappear from the WU screen? Or do you have to wait until the Scheduler does a WU again for them to disappear the WU screen?

                2. If you don’t want to wait for the scheduler to act, you yourself can make them disappear from the WU screen by following the instructions of AKB2000013?

                3. Does following the instructions of AKB2000013 get rid of the updates altogether (i.e., they no longer exist anywhere, not even in wushowhide ‘show hidden updates’)? Or does following AKB2000013 serve the purpose of making them disappear from the WU screen immediately, but at the same time keeping them hidden (i.e., AKB2000013 updates the WU screen right away)?

              • #2176784
                PKCano
                Manager

                Please reread AKB2000016 and AKB2000013. The answers to your questions are there. Repeating them would be redundancy.

                1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #2176471
          jabeattyauditor
          AskWoody Lounger

          Why did MS make the update process so convoluted when it was simple, although imperfect, before?

          To be fair, Microsoft’s update process isn’t that convoluted – in fact, it’s rather simple.

          End-user attempts to control that update process, to make it into something it isn’t – that’s where you get into convoluted territory.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          b
      • #2209555
        berniec
        AskWoody Plus

        I think I asked you this before but I needed to set up a new win10 and so I dug out the “update” settings post and I’ll ask the question I asked before: Is there a *difference* between setting the feature update stuff from  “windows update for business” with gpedit versus doing it from an admin-account Settings->Update & Security GUI?   I realize that setting it with gpedit might mess up the GUI, but if that’s not an issue is there any other benefit to doing it with the GUI?

        • #2209560
          PKCano
          Manager

          Personally, I find accessing the GUI much easier. The “2” setting in GP is set and forget. But is is a much easier to get to the pulldowns in the GUI. They will not be available if you use the GP settings.

          Here’s an example. I maintain/update the Office computer for my Homeowners Assn. I have kept them on v1809 until this morning. What with the quarantining and isolation demands today, I didn’t want to get caught up against v1809 EOL in May.
          So, this morning, to do the upgrade to v1909, all I had to do was change the Feature deferral pulldown from 365 days to 120 days and check for updates. A 30-second task (then wait for three hours for the completion of the install).

          See AKB2000016 for more information.

          2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2275257
        abbodi86
        AskWoody_MVP

        Thanks for adding and confirming that registry values which emulate the “removed” deferral GUI options from advanced setting still works in v2004

      • #2287135
        PKCano
        Manager

        AKB2000016 has been updated 8/6/2020.

        Included is information on the TargetReleaseVersion settings and how to use them. Screenshots have been added in #2286499.

        Other general information has also been added.

        5 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2292403
        WCHS
        AskWoody Plus

        I am looking at AKB2000016: Guide for Windows Update Settings for Windows 10 at #2125149, Section 5 for Win10/Pro beginning with 2004. Under Method 2 (Using Group Policy under Windows Update\Windows Update for Business), in the section “for deferrals:” at + Setting Target Release Version, it says “Select the target Feature Update version = Enabled, Target Version for Feature Updates = 1909”

        If one has to be on Version 2004 (as the heading for Section 5 says) for the instructions to apply, how is it possible to set Target Version for Feature Updates to 1909?? Or will these instructions also work if you are on Version 1909 and want to remain on 1909 (ala #2286499)?

        EOL for 1909 is May 11, 2021. I have FU=365 and that applies to the most recently released version, 2004 (released May 27, 2020), right? So, will Target Version for Feature Updates = 1909 let me remain on 1909 until July 11, 2021 (60 days past 1909 EOL of May 11, 2021)? And if I don’t set Target Version for Feature Updates=1909, will I be pushed to 2004 on May 11, 2021 (EOL for 1909)? Or will I be pushed to 2004 on May 28, 2021 (365 days past May 27, 2020)??

        I am trying to figure out how to make 1909 last for as long as is possible.

        • #2292409
          PKCano
          Manager

          When you use “Feature Deferral” you specify how many days after release you want to wait before being eligible for the next version. The MAXIMUM is 365 days.
          In the Target Release Version, you specify which version you want to STAY on or MOVE to.

          Windows versions have a life of somewhere around 18 months from release to EOL.
          If you use the maximum deferral = 365 days (12 months), you may run out of “deferral” before the actual EOL (somewhere around 547 days).
          So, if you want to ride the version out up to the end, you need to switch from deferral=365 to TargetReleaseVersionInfo=the version you want to STAY on. But there is the caveat there, that MS says it will automatically update you to the current version NEAR EOL (and their definition of NEAR may not be the same as yours).

          If on the other hand, you are on, say, 1903 and you want to move to 2004, you can set the TargetReleaseVersionInfo to 2004 and you will be offered that version. OR you can move to 2004 by manipulating the number of deferral days.

          See #2286499 for more explanation.

          2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #2292416
            WCHS
            AskWoody Plus

            I thought FU (in the GUI, version 1909) is how many days after the release of the most current version (2004) and not how many days after the release of the version I am on (1909).

            You say “Feature Deferral” — is this a reference to the item in the GPE (and not to GUI, 1909)?

            And to what does the statement in AKB2000016 that says in #2286499 that “It should also be noted that if the device is not updated before it reaches EOS, the device will automatically be updated once it is 60 days past end of service for its edition” apply? To FU (GUI,1909)?? To GPE > Target Release Version (1909 and 2004)? or both?

            • #2292426
              PKCano
              Manager

              I thought FU (in the GUI, version 1909) is how many days after the release of the most current version (2004) and not how many days after the release of the version I am on (1909).

              Feature deferral begins when the newer current version Feature Update is released and extends for the number of days you set. For that number of days you will not be offered the newer Feature Update.

              This is an example (NOT ACCURATE FIGURES):
              Say you are on 1903. it was released
              2004 was released 94 days ago. 1909 was released 292 days ago.
              If you defer for 365 your deferral is greater than 94 or 292 so you won’t get either.
              If you set the deferral at 200 days, 2004 has not been deferred 200 days (only out 94) so you won’t get 2004. But 1909 has been out 292 days and it was only deferred 200, so you will get 1909.
              If you set deferral at 50 days,, 2004 has passed it’s 94 so you will get 2004.

              You get the latest version that’s passed the deferral time.

              See my answer above for the rest of your questions.

              Edit: Updated “current version” to read “Feature Update” as is explained in the given examples. Apologies for the confusion.

              1 user thanked author for this post.
              • #2319015
                Tex265
                AskWoody Plus

                Feature deferral begins when your Feature Update is released and extends for the number of days you set. For that number of days you will not be offered a new Feature Update.

                Why not just say: Feature deferral begins (or starts) on the date a newer Feature Update version is released ……………etc ?

                Saying …. “when your Feature Update is released” …. is what confuses folks as it is often taken to mean the Feature Update you are (currently) using.

                Windows 10 Pro x64 v1909 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 (RIP)
                3 users thanked author for this post.
                Perq, b
              • #2319020
                PKCano
                Manager

                Does that change help you?

                1 user thanked author for this post.
              • #2319024
                Tex265
                AskWoody Plus

                It seems much more clear to me.

                A version of this wording seems to come up repeatedly in this post as well as in Susan’s post, Patch Lady – my favorite new windows update setting discussion.

                Windows 10 Pro x64 v1909 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 (RIP)
              • #2319050
                WCHS
                AskWoody Plus

                …Why not just say:…

                I don’t know how many times I have read AKB 2000016 Guide. Plenty. But, I just noticed that Section 3 in AKB2000016 says that feature deferral can apply to several Feature updates at a time. For example, when there are two released versions less than 365 days old (i.e., the newer 2004 and the even newer 20H2), both beyond the older-than-365-day version you are on (1909).

                + Feature update deferral – This setting allows you to defer Feature Updates (twice-yearly version upgrades) for up to 365 days. The deferral starts from the day a Feature Update is released for general use.
                It can apply to several Feature updates at a time (My italics). Say, for example, version A was released 220 days ago and version B was released 30 days ago. Setting the deferral to 200 days will allow version A to be available to Windows Update, but not version B. Setting the deferral to 20 days will make version B available. You can choose which version you want to install by setting the appropriate number of deferral days.

                In other words, you have to find the sweet spot to get the newer version you want. We can’t talk about 1909 anymore, because it was released more than 365 days ago. But, if you want 2004, then make the number of days be fewer days than when 2004 was released, but at the same time more days than when 20H2 was released. If you want 20H2, then make the number of days be fewer days than when 20H2 was released.

                So, it all depends on which “newer” version (2004? or 20H2?) the word newer in the change refers to.

                This is to say that it’s best to take a careful look again at AKB 2000016, Section 3, + Feature update deferral and use that to figure out what your deferral number should be.

                Of course, the simpler route is to set TRV to the version you want to upgrade to.

              • #2319267
                Tex265
                AskWoody Plus

                We can’t talk about 1909 anymore, because it was released more than 365 days ago.

                How many days old your installed version 1909 doesn’t matter here. Only how long ago a Newer Feature version(s) has been released.

                You still need to keep an eye on that “365 day deferral” as when it runs out, you will be Feature Updated by MS.

                But, if you want 2004, then make the number of days be fewer days than when 2004 was released, but at the same time more days than when 20H2 was released. If you want 20H2, then make the number of days be fewer days than when 20H2 was released.

                I think this should read: But if you want 2004, then make the number of days be “more” days than when 2004 was released. If you want 20H2, then make the number of days be fewer days than when “2004” was released, but at the same time more days than when 20H2 was released.

                 

                Windows 10 Pro x64 v1909 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 (RIP)
              • #2319274
                b
                AskWoody Plus

                How many days old your installed version 1909 doesn’t matter here. Only how long ago a Newer Feature version(s) has been released.

                The point was that you can no longer defer version 1909 if you’re on a previous version.

                I think this should read: But if you want 2004, then make the number of days be “more” days than when 2004 was released.

                That would not get you 2004.

                If you want 20H2, then make the number of days be fewer days than when “2004” was released, but at the same time more days than when 20H2 was released.

                That would get you 2004.

                2 users thanked author for this post.
              • #2319289
                Tex265
                AskWoody Plus

                You are correct and so is/was @WCHS.

                Lost my train of thought I guess.

                Windows 10 Pro x64 v1909 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 (RIP)
                3 users thanked author for this post.
                WCHS, b
          • #2292550
            Tex265
            AskWoody Plus

            Windows versions have a life of somewhere around 18 months from release to EOL. If you use the maximum deferral = 365 days (12 months), you may run out of “deferral” before the actual EOL (somewhere around 547 days). So, if you want to ride the version out up to the end, you need to switch from deferral=365 to TargetReleaseVersionInfo=the version you want to STAY on. But there is the caveat there, that MS says it will automatically update you to the current version NEAR EOL (and their definition of NEAR may not be the same as yours).

            In v1909, If you are using the maximum deferral = 365 days set via GUI, also using  wushowhide and have Group Policy – set to 2 (notify), upon reaching EOL or near EOL will Windows bypass the Group Policy setting and actually install v2004 or will Windows Updater notify you but not download and install the update?  Would wushowhide then allow you to hide it?

            If the above is not possible to prolong v1909, does making the setting in Group Policy – Target Release Version to v1909, “gray out”, “remove”, or do anything to the Feature Update deferral GUI in v1909?

            Windows 10 Pro x64 v1909 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 (RIP)
            • #2292551
              PKCano
              Manager

              Will Windows bypass Group Policy near EOL – I have never had it happen to me, but it depends on whether or not MS is pushing a given version. I’m not Microsoft, so I can’t guarantee anything.

              If you want to use a version past max 365 deferral, you should switch to TargetReleaseVersion settings. But, here again, it depends on whether MS will force the upgrade.

              I’m afraid, if you want a guarantee, you will have to take it up with Microsoft.

              1 user thanked author for this post.
              • #2292553
                Tex265
                AskWoody Plus

                If the above is not possible to prolong v1909, does making the setting in Group Policy – Target Release Version to v1909, “gray out”, “remove”, or do anything to the Feature Update deferral GUI in v1909?

                PK, any knowledge regarding the second question?  Thx

                Windows 10 Pro x64 v1909 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 (RIP)
              • #2292556
                PKCano
                Manager

                I have never tried it. Why don’t you try it and let us know.

              • #2300753
                WCHS
                AskWoody Plus

                Why don’t you try it and let us know.

                I am on 1909 and have set TargetReleaseVersion=1909. GUI is not greyed out.
                1909-GUI-when-TargetReleaseVersion1909

                Attachments:
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      • #2295333
        Save_Us_from_MS
        AskWoody Lounger

        Some of this stuff is above my head. Any chase you could make an all-in-one .reg or .bat file to apply the settings? Thanks for the great info nonetheless.

         

        • #2295339
          PKCano
          Manager

          If you want more options, you need to upgrade from Home to Pro Edition. Home has very few options.

          There is no “all-in-one” because there are so many different combinations/needs.
          If you can’t understand the instructions, there are screenshots (pictures) below the instructions to show how to set things up.

      • #2295345
        CraigS26
        AskWoody Plus

        Will Windows bypass Group Policy near EOL – I have never had it happen to me, but it depends on whether or not MS is pushing a given version. I’m not Microsoft, so I can’t guarantee anything.

        If you want to use a version past max 365 deferral, you should switch to TargetReleaseVersion settings. But, here again, it depends on whether MS will force the upgrade.

        I’m afraid, if you want a guarantee, you will have to take it up with Microsoft.

        I’ve seen NO Date mentioned  BUT … IF (on/about) 11/12/19 was the 1909 Release date – the 365 Deferral is up in about 2 months. What steps are taken to — “switch to TargetReleaseVersion settings — ?

        I have BOTH now and per “switch to” above that must be wrong. If I keep 1909 in GrpPol “WU for Business” block/ Select Target Feature Update Ver , what is done with the GUI Deferral setting now at 365 ? (GUI presumed to be Task bar cog wheel/Update & Security/Advanced)

        Thanks as always!

        W10 Pro 20H2 / Hm-Stdnt Ofce '16 C2R / HP Envy Desktop-Ethernet/ 12 GB / 256G SSD + 1 TB HDD / i5-8400 Coffee Lake/ GP=2 + FtrU=Semi-Annual + Feature Defer = 1 + QU=0

        • This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by CraigS26.
        • #2295348
          PKCano
          Manager

          + Set the TargetReleaseVersion to 1909 when the deferral gets close to the max 365 days.
          + You should NOT have Feature deferrals set in Group Policy (which grays out the GUI pulldown), but set with the GUI pulldown instead.
          + Group Policy settings take precedence over GUI settings – TargetReleaseVersion should prevail.
          + So you can leave the GUI pulldown where it is, as it applies to how long the later version (v2004) has been deferred, which was around 107 days on Sept Patch Tues. v2004 was released May 27, 2020 – so you are deferring it for the number of days from that date.

          v1909 is EOL on May 11, 2021. MS says it will push an upgrade when the version is “near” EOL. Microsoft’s definition of “near” may not be the same as yours.

          5 users thanked author for this post.
          • #2295366
            CraigS26
            AskWoody Plus

            I’m in a self-imposed 10-minute Time-out in the corner for not noticing many of the latest posts. A link takes you to almost the end, I get absorbed there & forget to look above since last visit. Embarrassing!

            Finally, in Early May ’21 (just prior  to 2004’s (365) deferral expiration)  when I setup the Grp Pol / WU for Business 1909 Target Release Version — must the 365 Deferral setting then be altered & How if Yes?

            W10 Pro 20H2 / Hm-Stdnt Ofce '16 C2R / HP Envy Desktop-Ethernet/ 12 GB / 256G SSD + 1 TB HDD / i5-8400 Coffee Lake/ GP=2 + FtrU=Semi-Annual + Feature Defer = 1 + QU=0

            • #2295371
              PKCano
              Manager

              Finally, in Early May ’21 (just prior to 2004’s (365) deferral expiration) when I setup the Grp Pol / WU for Business 1909 Target Release Version — must the 365 Deferral setting then be altered & How if Yes?

              At this point the question is moot as v1909 will be EOL (May 11). And MS may upgrade you to whatever the latest version is without your asking for it (control). They get very pushy near EOL.

              1 user thanked author for this post.
              • #2295402
                WCHS
                AskWoody Plus

                At this point the question is moot as v1909 will be EOL (May 27).

                At Windows lifecycle fact sheet, it says that EOL for 1909 Win10 Home/Pro is May 11, 2021.

                So, are saying the question is moot because EOL for 1909, which is May 11, 2021, is before 2004’s FU’s 365 deferral expiration, which is May 26, 2021, including end date?

                And, if you want to stay on 1909, are you saying that you have to set Grp Pol / WU for Business Target Release Version to 1909 BEFORE May 11, 2021?

              • #2295407
                PKCano
                Manager

                I’m saying that TargetReleaseVersion setting does you no good keeping you on a version after the version’s EOL. It’s not going to keep you safe from a forced upgrade if MS thinks want’s to do so. Microsoft states that in the documentation.

                I want to stay on a specific version

                If you need a device to stay on a version beyond the point when deferrals on the next version would elapse or if you need to skip a version (for example, update fall release to fall release) use the Update/TargetReleaseVersion (or Deploy Feature Updates Preview in Intune) instead of using feature update deferrals. When you use this policy, specify the version that you want your device(s) to move to or stay on (for example, “1909”). You can find version information at the Windows 10 Release Information Page.

                2 users thanked author for this post.
              • #2295425
                WCHS
                AskWoody Plus

                I’m on the fence right now. I don’t know yet whether I want to stay on 1909 or whether I will change to v 2004 (20H1). If things improve with 2004 in the next month (i.e., before the Oct/Nov 20H2 arrives), I will reduce FU from 365 to a lower value and move to 2004. If things do not improve with 2004, I will want to stay on 1909. So, what is the deadline for me to set the TargetRelease Version to 1909, if things are not improving with 2004?

                Or do you suggest setting TargetReleaseVersion to 1909 now and when/if I decide to go to 2004, then change it to 2004?

              • #2295426
                geekdom
                AskWoody Plus

                Set TargetReleaseVersion to 1909 now. When you want to install Version 2004, set TargetReleaseVersion to 2004.

                Beta Work {Got backup and coffee}
                offline▸ Win10Pro 2004.19041.572 x64 i3-3220 RAM8GB HDD Firefox83.0b3 WindowsDefender TRV=1909 WuMgr
                offline▸ Win10Pro 20H2.19042.685 x86 Atom N270 RAM2GB HDD WindowsDefender WuMgr GuineaPigVariant
                online▸ Win10Pro 2004.19041.746 x64 i5-9400 RAM16GB HDD Firefox85.0 WindowsDefender TRV=2004 WuMgr
              • #2295427
                WCHS
                AskWoody Plus

                Set TargetReleaseVersion to 1909 now. When you want to install Version 2004, set TargetReleaseVersion to 2004.

                And what do I do with the GUI for FU (I’m still in 1909)? Right now I have FU=365, QU=0, GPE=#2, notify download/install.

              • #2295431
                PKCano
                Manager

                Did you read #2295348?

              • #2295436
                WCHS
                AskWoody Plus

                And why is it necessary to keep hijacking threads for your personal instruction?

                Please be kind. I have been thinking that members can ask questions for needed instruction. Am I wrong about this?

                Am I the only one who cannot keep everything in my head at the same time???

                Nevertheless, I am grateful that you pointed me back to a previous post.

                1 user thanked author for this post.
              • #2299575
                Tex265
                AskWoody Plus

                If I am following this correctly, the OP is on ver 1909 (same as me) with GUI Feature Update set to 365 days deferral.

                Feature Update 365 deferral days are the number of days since the 1909 release date which was 11/12/2019 = 322 days ago counting today.

                So the 365 days deferral will end on 11/10/2020 (even though EOL is 5/11/2021).

                We are approaching the point where Windows Update will update us to 2004 unless we switch to utilizing the Group Policy setting TargetReleaseVersion and set it to ver 1909.

                If correct, my question is proper sequence for changing from the GUI Feature Update 365 days to the Group Policy Target Release Version setting.  Do you simply leave the GUI 365 setting alone and activate the Group Policy setting? Or carefully lower the GUI to 0 days then activate the Group Policy setting? Or activate the Group Policy setting and then lower the GUI to 0 (or some other number)?

                Windows 10 Pro x64 v1909 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 (RIP)
              • #2299635
                Tex265
                AskWoody Plus

                We are approaching the point where Windows Update will update us to 2004 unless we switch to utilizing the Group Policy setting TargetReleaseVersion and set it to ver 1909.

                Or, with wushowhide and Group Policy =2 (ask to download) can we catch the Feature Update when Windows Update offers it and then hide it like any other update until 5/11/2021 EOL?

                Windows 10 Pro x64 v1909 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 (RIP)
              • #2299658
                jburk07
                AskWoody Plus

                The 365-day expiration isn’t coming up soon. See post #2295348, where PK explained that the feature deferral defers the most current version (2004, not 1909):

                “… it applies to how long the later version (v2004) has been deferred, which was around 107 days on Sept Patch Tues. v2004 was released May 27, 2020 – so you are deferring it for the number of days from that date.”

                Linux Mint Cinnamon 19.2
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                Win7 Home Premium x64 SP1 Ivy Bridge, 0patch Pro, mostly offline
                Win 10 Pro x64 v1909 Ivy Bridge, dual boot with Linux

                2 users thanked author for this post.
              • #2299812
                Tex265
                AskWoody Plus

                The 365-day expiration isn’t coming up soon. See post #2295348, where PK explained that the feature deferral defers the most current version (2004, not 1909):

                I do think what I said is true, that the 1909 365 day expiration date is coming up.  Higher up in this post on August 29, PK Cano says:

                Feature deferral begins when your current version is released and extends for the number of days you set. For that number of days you will not be offered a new Feature Update.

                This also agrees with the definitions laid out in the actual Guide AKB2000016.

                Not sure, but think a different point was being raised in the verbiage you refer to – that is you can select which new Feature version you want to install by lowering the 365 day deferral on your current version to within a days number range that a new Feature version has been out.  Example of this is also laid out in the actual Guide.

                Windows 10 Pro x64 v1909 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 (RIP)
              • #2299857
                WCHS
                AskWoody Plus

                When PKCano says

                Feature deferral begins when your current version is released

                I read that to say “… when the current version is released”, in other words NOT your current version (i.e., the version you are on), but the current version (i.e., the latest version available — which would be 2004 right now).

                Here’s what Microsoft says

                When you defer feature updates, new Windows features won’t be offered, downloaded, or installed for a period of time that is greater than the deferral period set. Deferring feature updates doesn’t affect security updates, but it does prevent you from getting the latest Windows features as soon as they’re available.

                Of course, “the latest version available” will have a different reference as soon as 20H2 is released (some time soon).

                1 user thanked author for this post.
              • #2299875
                Tex265
                AskWoody Plus

                When PKCano says Feature deferral begins when your current version is released

                I read that to say “… when the current version is released”, in other words NOT your current version (i.e., the version you are on), but the current version (i.e., the latest version available — which would be 2004 right now

                With all due respect by you changing PKCano’s actual words, you change the comment to fit what you say. However using the actual words literally, if at the time you are setting the deferral days, your current version is 1909 the deferral begins from when 1909 is released.

                Also using your logic, when the next version after 2004 is released you would get yet another 365 days deferral on 1909.

                PK also corrected your initial interpretation of how the Feature deferral works twice when you asked your original question on August 29.

                When you use “Feature Deferral” you specify how many days after release you want to wait before being eligible for the next version. The MAXIMUM is 365 days.

                Also read the definitions and examples given in the actual  AKB Guide.

                Perhaps PKCano will chime in and provide the definitive answer.

                Windows 10 Pro x64 v1909 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 (RIP)
                • This reply was modified 3 months, 4 weeks ago by Tex265.
                2 users thanked author for this post.
              • #2299880
                WCHS
                AskWoody Plus

                With all due respect by you changing PKCano’s actual words

                Please note that I did NOT change his words … I interpreted them.

                Yes, I originally misunderstood “your current version” to mean the version I was on (1909).

              • #2299885
                jburk07
                AskWoody Plus

                I read that to say “… when the current version is released”

                That is the way I read it as well, based on how PKCano has explained it in the past. I am on version 1909 and have my feature update deferral set to 200 days. If those 200 days were based on the release date of 1909, I should have seen 2004 (or at least that message that it was coming?) by now, since 200 days has elapsed since November 2019. But I haven’t seen hide nor hair of 2004.

                Admittedly, the 2004 rollout has been mysterious about which machines are targeted, so it’s possible I’m not seeing it for other reasons.

                Seems to me the best and simplest advice is what geekdom advised in post #2295426 above (https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/comments-on-akb-2000016-guide-for-windows-update-settings-for-windows-10/#post-2295426}:

                “Set TargetReleaseVersion to 1909 now. When you want to install Version 2004, set TargetReleaseVersion to 2004.”

                Linux Mint Cinnamon 19.2
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                Win7 Pro x64 SP1 Haswell, 0patch Pro, dual boot with Linux
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                Win 10 Pro x64 v1909 Ivy Bridge, dual boot with Linux

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              • #2299932
                anonymous
                Guest

                Higher up in this post on August 29, PK Cano says:

                Feature deferral begins when your current version is released and extends for the number of days you set. …

                This also agrees with the definitions laid out in the actual Guide AKB2000016.

                The bolded bit is just plain wrong.

                It should say, “… each later …”, not ” … your current …”

                I can’t find any definition in AKB200016 which agrees with the bolded phrase here.

                3 users thanked author for this post.
              • #2299937
                PKCano
                Manager

                Correction: “your current version” changed to read “Feature Update,” as it was explained by the given examples.

                2 users thanked author for this post.
              • #2299961
                Tex265
                AskWoody Plus

                For PKCano and only PKCano to pls answer:

                Regarding the Feature Update days deferral setting:

                If you are currently on ver 1909 (current version on your system) and you set Feature Update deferral days to 365 days, is that deferring you for 365 days from:

                1. the release date of version 1909, or
                2. the release date of version 2004 ?
                Windows 10 Pro x64 v1909 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 (RIP)
              • #2299963
                PKCano
                Manager

                Here is an explanation of how it works:

                This is an example (NOT ACCURATE FIGURES): Say you are on 1903. it was released 2004 was released 94 days ago. 1909 was released 292 days ago. If you defer for 365 your deferral is greater than 94 or 292 so you won’t get either. If you set the deferral at 200 days, 2004 has not been deferred 200 days (only out 94) so you won’t get 2004. But 1909 has been out 292 days and it was only deferred 200, so you will get 1909. If you set deferral at 50 days,, 2004 has passed it’s 94 so you will get 2004. You get the latest version that’s passed the deferral time.

                Also see #2299887.

              • #2299965
                Tex265
                AskWoody Plus

                To PK Cano:

                The crux of  the question here is simply when does the 365 days of deferral run out on ver 1909?

                1. 365 days from the release date of 1909, or
                2. 365 days from the release date of 2004?
                Windows 10 Pro x64 v1909 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 (RIP)
              • #2299966
                PKCano
                Manager
              • #2299983
                Tex265
                AskWoody Plus

                Based on what PKCano is saying below from post #2299887 dated today, it appears the 365 day deferral period starts from the day a more current Feature Update (2004) is released.

                If you have v1909 on the computer, Feature deferral = 365 will keep you from getting v2004 (v2004 was out only 107 days on Sept Patch Tues, so around 130 days now).

                Anyone else read something different out of this as this is not what I thought was being previously said.

                Windows 10 Pro x64 v1909 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 (RIP)
              • #2299964
                Tex265
                AskWoody Plus

                Feature deferral begins when your current version is released and extends for the number of days you set. …

                So anonymous says this should read: Feature deferral begins when each later version is released and extends for the number of days you set.

                PKCano corrects it to read: Feature deferral begins when Feature Update is released and extends for the number of days you set.

                Windows 10 Pro x64 v1909 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 (RIP)
              • #2300746
                WCHS
                AskWoody Plus

                Correction: “your current version” changed to read “Feature Update,” as it was explained by the given examples.

                PKCano corrects it to read: Feature deferral begins when Feature Update is released and extends for the number of days you set.

                FINALLY, this is resolved!!

                A new Feature Update (20H2) is due anytime soon, I understand.

          • #2300749
            WCHS
            AskWoody Plus

            + Set the TargetReleaseVersion to 1909 when the deferral gets close to the max 365 days.

            In am on 1909 and want to stay on 1909. Settings are GPE=2 (Notify download/install), FU=365 and QU=0 and I have not changed those, but I have now set TargetReleaseVersion to 1909.
            This is what the Configured Update Policies screen now says. It hasn’t changed from what it said before I set TargetReleaseVersion. Should it say something about setting TargetReleaseVersion to 1909? Or does this screen remain silent on this setting?

            configured-update-policies

            Attachments:
      • #2299726
        Bob99
        AskWoody Plus

        So on 2004, with group policy settings of deferral for quality updates set to 30 right now, when Woody gives the ok and raises the defcon level to 3 or higher, all I should need to do is : (Listed in order of performing them)

        1. Lower the quality deferral number to zero(0)

        2. Use wushowhide to find and unhide the monthly September updates for 2004 (.net and the monthly “rollup” for 2004)

        3. Click “check for updates” to allow WU to d/l and install the updates

        Right? My Automatic Updates setting is enabled, with a value of 2.

        • #2299781
          PKCano
          Manager

          1. Lower the Quality deferral number to zero(0)

          Set Quality deferral at 0 (zero) and leave it there. You do NOT need to set Quality deferral if you have GP setting of “2” because the updates will NOT download unless/until you click the “Download” button. If you set a deferral you cannot see what is pending to be able to hide what you don’t want.

          2. Use wushowhide to find and unhide the monthly September updates for 2004 (.net and the monthly “rollup” for 2004)

          You DO NOT need to hide updates you want it you have GP setting “2” because the updates will NOT download unless/until you click the “Download” button. Only hide what you do not want. You are putting in controls then invalidating them with other controls. You can’t see what you’ve got if you keep deferring and hiding what you want to install.

          3. Click “check for updates” to allow WU to d/l and install the updates

          NEVER, NEVER, NEVER click “Check for updates.” If you have the GP setting of “2” there will be a “Download” button (when you leave Quality deferral – 0) – click on that.

          2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #2299852
            Bob99
            Guest

            The problem is is that I had deferral for quality updates set to zero on one of my machines earlier this month, and a definition update for Windows Defender showed up in WU and was the only thing listed as pending. So, I clicked on the button to d/l and WU installed not only the definition update that was listed but the September updates for 2004 and .net! That’s why I have quality updates set to 30, so that doesn’t happen again. Once bitten, twice shy.

            • #2299859
              PKCano
              Manager

              If you leave the Quality deferral at zero, all the pending ones show up and that won’t happen.
              When WU scans, the list of available updates are stored in a cache, and that’s what you see in the queue. The cache is not refreshed until the next WU scan by the system. It is a static list between scans.

              wushowhide uses the same Windows Update service to scan, but the list is current b/c you initiate the scan. But if you have deferral set, wushowhide can’t see the pending updates either.

              If you leave the deferral at zero, when you use wushowhide you get a current list. What’s in the WU queue will match it when the system initiates a WU scan (then the cache is refreshed).

              As long as you have Quality deferral set, you’re flying blind b/c neither tool can work for you.

              4 users thanked author for this post.
              • #2299870
                Bob99
                Guest

                Ok, another question (thanks for the clarification above, BTW): Usually (9.5 times out of 10) we don’t want the weeks c/d/e “preview” patches that are released. I haven’t seen them appear yet for September, which is a good thing.

                However, should the need arise to get one d/l’d and installed due to fixing a really bad problem with a system of ours, how would we go about getting it to show up in WU to download and install? Or, would we have to go get it from the Catalog instead?

              • #2299877
                PKCano
                Manager

                You can do that two ways (if you want the Previews).
                You can download from the Catalog and install manually.
                OR
                You can click “Check for Updates” or the “Download and install now” link( if the latter shows in WU).

                1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2299881
        LHiggins
        AskWoody Plus

        Good morning! I am glad to see that this topic is still active, as I find I have a few questions about a Win 10 Pro initial set-up. I have finally bitten the bullet and ordered a refurbished Dell laptop – seems pretty nice – 16 GB RAM, 512 GB SSD. I am planning on keeping my Win 7 Thinkpad around, but it seemed time to take that next step.

        So – I will be going through all of the set-up steps once the laptop arrives, and find that I have a few questions.

        I am not sure if the laptop will come with 2004 or 1909 – and Dell just says “Version will be updated to the latest one as soon as you connect to the internet and start the Windows Updates.”

        So – after I do all of the offline set up and set Feature Updates as indicated by PKCano – my question (I think) is – once I go online, before doing anything else, should I run WUSHOWHIDE and hide any upgrade to 2004 that shows, or will setting the feature update deferral keep 2004 from even showing up in Windows Update in the first place?

        Or to quote a post in an earlier discussion 1736802: “What eventually occurs the first time I allow updates to install after I initially block everything? Is the initial blocking so I can hide anything unwanted before I allow the first round of updates? ”

        I really don’t want to start out having to do that upgrade right away, and would prefer to be able to get comfortable with it all first.

        Or – will hiding that in WUSHOWHIDE “remove” it from the update queue if it is there, as long as I don’t check for updates?

        And I guess one other WUSHOWHIDE question – does an update need to be hidden before it shows up in the Windows Update queue or will hiding it after make it disappear?

        Thanks for the help. I have done some of this about a year an a half ago but just wanted to refresh my memory on this one part of the process since last time, the Feature Update was not imminent and I had time to sort it all out before that eventually became available.

        • #2299887
          PKCano
          Manager

          The initial setup should be done OFFLINE (not connected to you network) if you want a LOCAL ID. If you connect to your network, you will be forced into a MS ID.
          It will ask you several times during the initial setup if you want to update and look for drivers. The answer is NO (you are offline).
          Then you need to set Windows Update so you don’t get bombed when you do go online.

          If you have v1909 on the computer, Feature deferral = 365 will keep you from getting v2004 (v2004 was out only 107 days on Sept Patch Tues, so around 130 days now). If you have v2004 on the computer, 365 days will keep you from getting 20H2. If you have anything earlier than v1909, setting Feature deferral at 200-250 days should get you v1909, then you can set it up to 365.
          Depending on which version (1909 or 2004), use the Group Policy settings in AKB2000016 for that version (I am assuming you are getting Win10 Pro).

          Beside WU, you should also go through all the settings in the Settings App and adjust them for your level of privacy BEFORE you go on line.

          The only thing you need to hide with wushowhide are updates you don’t want, like drivers, Previews, etc. The patches you DO want will just sit in the queue until you click the “Download” button if you have the “2” set in Group Policy.

          2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #2299897
            LHiggins
            AskWoody Plus

            Thanks so much – just what I was looking for!

            Then you need to set Windows Update so you don’t get bombed when you do go online.

            Yes, that is what I wanted to avoid.

            If you have anything earlier than v1909, setting Feature deferral at 200-250 days should get you v1909, then you can set it up to 365. Depending on which version (1909 or 2004), use the Group Policy settings in AKB2000016 for that version (I am assuming you are getting Win10 Pro).

            Yes – Win 10 PRO. And I am just guessing that it might be 1909 – could be earlier. Is there an easy way to tell which it is?

            The only thing you need to hide with wushowhide are updates you don’t want, like drivers, Previews, etc. The patches you DO want will just sit in the queue until you click the “Download” button if you have the “2” set in Group Policy.

            Great – thanks! I thought that I might need to do something with 2004 if it was there. Glad the deferral settings should take care of it.

            Hoping to get the new one delivered next week – so I will post any other questions as they come up – though the guide is very clear as to the steps. And yes – OFFLINE for sure – I definitely don’t want a MS account, and plan to disable Cortana right off as well.

            And – I’ve learned my lesson about admin and standard users, too. I am planning to set up both types of accounts and use the standard account as my everyday account. When would I do that – after setting up the deferrals, etc?

            Thanks again!

            ETA – just got the notice that this laptop has shipped and might be delivered this week – 10/1! Fast – wow!! Guess I’d better get all of my instructions organized – LOL!

             

             

             

            • This reply was modified 3 months, 4 weeks ago by LHiggins.
            • #2299901
              PKCano
              Manager

              Yes – Win 10 PRO. And I am just guessing that it might be 1909 – could be earlier. Is there an easy way to tell which it is?

              When you get to the desktop for the first time, run winver and it will tell you version and Build.

              If you need help, create a topic and we can step you through it (using your other PC).

              1 user thanked author for this post.
              • #2299914
                LHiggins
                AskWoody Plus

                If you need help, create a topic and we can step you through it (using your other PC).

                Thanks! I’ll see how far I get and I will create a new topic if need be!

                Thanks again!!

              • #2300497
                LHiggins
                AskWoody Plus

                If you need help, create a topic and we can step you through it (using your other PC).

                Yep – I do need help. Started a new topic since I find that this laptop is on V 1809 and have questions.

                Thanks!

              • #2300500
                PKCano
                Manager

                Already answered

            • #2300091
              LHiggins
              AskWoody Plus

              One more detail, if I may…

              And – I’ve learned my lesson about admin and standard users, too. I am planning to set up both types of accounts and use the standard account as my everyday account. When would I do that – after setting up the deferrals, etc?

              Thanks!

              • #2300095
                PKCano
                Manager

                You need to do the WU settings under the Admin account. In fact, it’s best (IMO) to do all system and install tasks under the Admin and just use a Standard account for everyday activities.

                1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2302611
        billk22
        AskWoody Plus

        I am running Windows 10 Pro, Version 1909.  Several weeks ago, I set the Feature Update Deferral = 365 and the Quality Update Deferral = 0 AND, in Group Policy, I set Configure Automatic Updates = ENABLED, Value 2.  The problem is that I am no longer getting the Security Intelligence Updates for Microsoft Defender Antivirus which used to install automatically on nearly a daily basis.  I would like the Security Updates to continue to install automatically.  Is there a work-around for this?

        • #2302619
          PKCano
          Manager

          I have not looked at this b/c I use Bitdefender Free on my Win10 and it turns Defender off.
          I was under the impression that the definitions were applied even with the “2” settings.
          I can suggest you look at the Defender definition versions and verify they are not being updated. If not, then check the settings in Defender and in Group Policy to possibly set updating. Maybe set up a task in Task Scheduler.

        • #2302644
          WCHS
          AskWoody Plus

          I would like the Security Updates to continue to install automatically.

          I have your settings in v1909. (FU=365, QU=0, GPE=2 (notify download/install)). I hide the monthly Tuesday patches until MS-DEFCON is 3 or greater and then I unhide them. But, Defender updates always appear in the WU display with a download button, whenever there is a new version available. So, Defender updates do not install automatically with GPE=2; you have to click the download button, whenever it comes up.
          Here’s the screen that just appeared in my WU display.
          Defender-Update

          I have McAfee Security Center installed but Windows Defender does periodic scanning as well and updates regularly as you see in the screen above. To get Windows Defender to do the periodic scanning, at the bottom of the Update & Security > Windows Security > Virus & threat protection screen, I have periodic scanning turned on.
          Windows-Defender-Antivirus-options

          Attachments:
          • #2302838
            billk22
            AskWoody Plus

            Except that, yesterday, my WU screen had a Defender update AND a Preview update for .NET Framework…. so, if I clicked on Download, I’d get the Preview too, which I don’t want.  Today, only the Preview update is showing up… the Defender update has disappeared.  How do I get that back?  Actually, is it possible to get all Defender’s Definition Updates since 8/26/20?

            If I disabled the GPE setting and set QU=28, would I have any control over Preview and Other updates?

            • #2302857
              PKCano
              Manager

              Did you check to see if the Defender update went ahead and installed, not just disappeared? Are you checking the Defender definition version numbers/dates?

            • #2306623
              Tex265
              AskWoody Plus

              @billk22

              I have the same settings as you.

              Defender Definitions “usually” show up in the Window Update GUI, but not always.  Whether they show up or not, they will always self install whether you click the Download/Install button or not if you wait awhile.

              If it appears and you click Download, it will install and appear in the Update History. If it self installs, it will not appear in the Update History, but is still installed.

              You can check in the Settings for Defender to see what version is installed, or better is to go to Search in the Task Bar and search for “Reliability History”. This will show everything that installed on a given day including the Defender Definitions, version number, and time.

              If you didn’t click Download the entry shows up once. If you clicked Download the entry show up twice (makes me wonder if always installs automatically and the Download button does it again).

              If Defender update appears in Windows Update with other Updates, just wait and let it self install, then it will disappear after the next automatic Windows Update takes place.  Of course by then there may be a newer Defender update available.  The only way I know of to separate Defender updates from other Updates you do not want to install is to use the wushowhide tool and hide the Updates  you do not want to install.

              Windows 10 Pro x64 v1909 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 (RIP)
              • This reply was modified 3 months ago by Tex265.
              1 user thanked author for this post.
              • #2306631
                WCHS
                AskWoody Plus

                The only way I know of to separate Defender updates from other Updates you do not want to install is

                There is another way to separate out a Defender update so that you get the latest one available:

                Update & Security > Windows Security > Virus & threat protection > scroll down to Virus & threat protection updates and click on the link “Check for updates” This will tell you the version that is installed. Then, if you click on the button that comes up for “Check for updates,” you will get the latest one, if available, and it will then show up in the Reliability Monitor (aka Reliability history), too.

                1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2306263
        PKCano
        Manager

        **NOTE: When delaying version updates, you should choose either Feature Deferrals OR TargetReleaseVersion settings. You should not use both.
        If you use TargetReleaseVersion, set deferrals to 0 0r 1, as they are going to be ignored anyway.

        • #2306615
          WCHS
          AskWoody Plus

          I’m v1909, TargetReleaseVersion=1909, FU=365, QU=0, GPE=2 (notify download/install)

          Don’t Optional Cumulative Update Previews and Optional Cumulative Update dotNet Previews fit into the category of Feature Deferral? If you have TargetReleaseVersion set and you have no Feature Deferral set, then how do you avoid these optional preview updates?

          • #2306622
            PKCano
            Manager

            Previews are NOT Feature updates. Feature Updates are version changes (1909 -> 2004, 2004 -> 20H2).

            You should NOT use BOTH Feature deferrals and TargetReleaseVersion settings. If you have TargetReleaseVersion set, the 365-day Feature deferral is ignored (according to MS documentation). If you use TargetReleaseVersion, set deferrals to 0 0r 1, as it’s going to be ignored anyway.

            Both methods work individually, just not together
            .
            Choose one or the other, whichever is easier for you to remember, and stick with it. It works unless MS arbitrarily changes things (for which we have no advanced warning or control over).

            • #2306628
              WCHS
              AskWoody Plus

              I know that Previews are NOT Feature Updates, but my understanding from @abbodi86 #2284115 is that they are in the category of Feature Update, i.e. they are handled in the same way as Feature Updates.

            • #2306956
              WCHS
              AskWoody Plus

              You should NOT use BOTH Feature deferrals and TargetReleaseVersion settings. If you have TargetReleaseVersion set, the 365-day Feature deferral is ignored (according to MS documentation).

              If TargetReleaseVersion=1909, FU=0, QU=0, GPE=2-notify download/install, is there a GPE setting anywhere that will prevent CU Previews (i.e., Week ‘C’ or ‘D’ or ‘E’ CU patches) from being offered in the ‘Optional updates available-download and install’ area of the WU display?

              • #2306984
                abbodi86
                AskWoody_MVP

                Actually in my brief tests, with TargetReleaseVersion set, if you also set FU deferral to even 1 day, it will prevent CU Preview

                5 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2313169
        rebop2020
        AskWoody Plus

        New user here with two wushowhide questions:
         

        1. I read your guide and mention to uncheck “Automatically Apply Updates”. What does that do and why uncheck? I believe the default is checked.
        2. WUSHOWHIDE has always worked well for me. However,in the last month every time I use wushowhide and either click hide or show – nothing more needed, it throws elevated errors. They appear in user/appdata/local/elevateddiagnostics.There is a cab containing the same files as appear separately. All .xml except for one .sml schema. I do not see anything that shows a real error. There is no windows error report.
          I’ll be happy to upload the .cab if that helps diagnose the issue. I only found it by using CCleaner and I KNOW for sure this has not happened before.

        Appreciate your replies and thoughts.

        • #2313177
          PKCano
          Manager

          wushowhide is a troubleshooter. Unchecking the box means any changes won’t be applied automatically. They need tobe applied manually.

          Are you using a Administrator ID or a Standard ID?
          I have never seen the errors you are talking about, and I use wushowhide all the time.

          • #2313186
            rebop2020
            AskWoody Plus

            Thanks, but I am still confused. It is checked now. If I hide an update, it is hidden from updates. At least the next day. If I unhide, same, it unhides.

            You are saying I should uncheck and then do something else to hide if that is what I am trying to do?

            Sorry, just not clear to me.

            Using my ID, but I am administrator. I have not seen these errors for years and not until perhaps a month, maybe less ago. Would uploading the .cab be helpful?

            Thanks.

            • #2313190
              PKCano
              Manager

              Not necessary to upload the cab. It’s probably too big anyway.
              Uncheck the box and see if the error disappears.

      • #2314358
        anonymous
        Guest

        Sorry, been busy for a few days.

        .cab is only 50 KB. Very small.

        Even with Apply Immediately unchecked still throws the error every time Show or Hide is run to check. Check user/appdata/local/elevateddiagnostics to see if you have anything there PKCano. I never did see these before very recently.

        And still not understanding the reason to uncheck Automatically Apply? If I want to Hide a new Update, I would want it to apply now, mo? Same with Unhide. If I had a reason to Unhide I would want it to be available to download now, no? So why uncheck and if I do what is the expected workflow?

        Thanks.

        • #2314362
          PKCano
          Manager

          Check user/appdata/local/elevateddiagnostics

          Nope, nothing

          Screen-Shot-2020-11-25-at-11.36.38-AM

          Attachments:
          • #2314454
            rebop2020
            AskWoody Plus

            Interesting. Thanks for checking. Makes me wonder why me then? And also why my posts here are coming as anonymous as I sign it before posting.

            One of those days.

            I have googled this and will try one more time.

            ~Bob

          • #2315331
            rebop2020
            AskWoody Plus

            Update: Elevated Diagnostics are now captured not only from using wushowhide, but anything Windows Update such as attempts to download and install that Printer update from 2006 which in itself is baffling. So seems something related to Win 10 update has activated ElevatedDiagnostics.

            • #2315333
              PKCano
              Manager

              Look in Settings App\Privacy\Diagnostics & feedback
              Minimal is:
              “Required diagnostic data”
              Improve inking and typing = OFF
              Tailored experiences = OFF
              Feedback frequency = Never

      • #2315456
        Bob99
        Guest

        Just a heads up for folks: The TargetReleaseVersion setting’s name in version 2004 has changed. It is now called “Select the target Feature Update version” instead of what it was called before. Its location remains the same within GPEdit.

        I just noticed this a couple of days ago while seeing exactly what value would get the 20H2 update to show up in wushowhide. Turns out that to get 20H2, I had to enter “20H2”, not 2010 or 2009 as has been previously reported elsewhere on this site. So, I guess that’s yet another change that MS has thrown our way.

        BTW, the testing I did was conducted on a fully updated (including the November updates) Win 10 Pro x64 system, version 2004 winver 19041.630.

        R/

        Bob99

        3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2315684
        MrToad28
        AskWoody Lounger

        I used a link I found on AKB 2000016 I thinks ..not sure which one..to pause or stop updates..possibly by setting a group policy. Now when I check windows update..I come upon “Pause isn’t available per your organizations policy” I own the Pc..there is no organization. I want to stay with 1909..but since the Pc hasn’t been updated since October 2019, I’d like to get the updates..I bought it as a clean refurb a month ago..Win10 Pro. Thanks for any help you care to provide.

        • #2315686
          PKCano
          Manager

          The message you are getting (“Pause isn’t available per your organizations policy”) is most likely due to settings that have been made in Group Policy (the organization).

          There is a link at the top of this thread to AKB2000016. I would suggest you read through the information. There are two ways to stay on v1909: Setting Feature Update Deferral OR using TargetReleaseVersion settings. Both methods are explained there, and there are screenshots below the text to show where the settings are located. I would also suggest you remove settings that don’t match the method you choose.

          • #2315733
            Bob99
            Guest

            @PKCano

            I know that all the monthly updates for Win 10 are labeled “LCU” for Latest Cumulative Update, and I also realize that WU will silently download and attempt to install the latest SSU before installing the LCU for the current month.

            However, given that @MrToad28 says that the PC hasn’t been updated in just over a year (since Oct 2019), would he perhaps be required to install an SSU from somewhat earlier this year in order to successfully download and install the latest SSU and LCU for November through Windows Update?

            • #2315736
              PKCano
              Manager

              I don’t think he needs to do anything if he goes through Windows Update. The CUs are cumulative and he will get the latest SSU along with it.
              He’s just got to straighten out Windows Update.

              Hopefully, setting GP will do that (unless there is another problem blocking it). But the message he’s getting (in my experience) is due to GP settings somewhere. I think @b ‘s link below will help locate it. If the refurb was on a domain, there may be other “User hands-off” settings as well.

              • #2315738
                Bob99
                Guest

                @PKCano

                Yep, you nailed it! I just found the setting within GPEdit for @MrToad28 to look at and change!

                Local Computer Policy\Computer Configuration\Administrative Templates\Windows Components\Windows Update

                (BOY, what a long path!)

                In the settings that show when “Windows Update” is highlighted on the left side of the window, slowly scroll through the myriad of preferences on the right side of the window until you come upon the one that says

                “Remove access to “Pause updates” feature”

                Make sure that item is either set to “Not configured” or set to “Disabled”.

                That should do it. On my machines, it’s set to “Not configured”

              • #2315739
                Bob99
                Guest

                OOPS! Same thing that’s stated in the link that @b posted below. However, that link is for enabling the lack of access, not for disabling the lack of access.

                Oh well, six of one half dozen of the other.

              • #2315759
                WCHS
                AskWoody Plus

                However, that link is for enabling the lack of access, not for disabling the lack of access.

                The link describes how to do either one.

          • #2315743
            Bob99
            Guest

            Since version 1909’s release date was November 12. 2019, it seems that the Feature Update deferral of 365 days won’t work any more for staying on 1909, since we’re now at the end of November 2020.

            Shouldn’t the folks wanting to stay on 1909 now ensure that the TargetRelease Version item is set to 1909 instead?

            • #2315745
              PKCano
              Manager

              v2004 was released May 27, 2020 – hasn’t been near 365 days of deferral yet. 365 Deferral is still good on v1909 till around May 2021. You are deferring the next versions.

              1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #2315690
          b
          AskWoody Plus
      • #2315970
        MrToad28
        AskWoody Lounger

        Following @bob99 advice: the Pause updates feature..was set to not configured..but I changed to disabled
        Still seems Blocked
        Under settings I found “view configured update policies”
        All are source: Admin. Type: Group policy
        Policies set on you device:
        Disable Pause updates by user
        End date for pausing quality updates
        En able quality update deferral
        Quality update deferrel period

        Thanks for the help guys..I’ve been doing windows PC’s since early 1990’s it bothers me that I can’t seem to fix this..If I let updates rip..I fear they’ll do just that..but now I got year long update constipation. D*****d if you do….

        Any way, really appreciate the guidance.

        • #2316054
          Bob99
          Guest

          Try rebooting your computer and see if anything’s changed.  As I mentioned in my earlier post,  I have the “Remove access to “Pause updates” feature” setting at “Not configured” on my computers. However,  I would think that setting it to “Disabled” would accomplish the same thing.

          R/

          Bob99

        • #2316057
          Bob99
          Guest

          @PKCano

          What should @MrToad28 expect to see once he gets the pause updates straightened out? The November patch for 1909, the latest .net patch and drivers that have been released since October of last year that MS thinks he’s “worthy enough” (in their opinion) to receive?

      • #2316105
        rebop2020
        AskWoody Plus

        Look in Settings App\Privacy\Diagnostics & feedback
        Minimal is:
        “Required diagnostic data”
        Improve inking and typing = OFF
        Tailored experiences = OFF
        Feedback frequency = Never

        Thanks. Sorry for the slow reply.

        Everything there is off. I think I have set something in GPEdit a while ago so that sections show managed by my Admin (me :). All off or grayed. And I have not set or changed anything there in a long, long time.

        So just to remind, this started recently. MAYBE(?) with an ESET update a month or so ago? Possible? I looked but did not find a new option that seemed to correlate to this. But never had these before and anything that touches windows update triggers those elevated diagnostics.

        The cab is small. The reports inside small and in xml. I have looked and do not see anything of interest showing why these elevateddiagnostics have started.

        ~Bob

         

        • #2316106
          rebop2020
          AskWoody Plus

          Sorry, may have replied to a post that was not directed to me.

          • #2316184
            Paul T
            AskWoody MVP

            Reply wherever you want, we don’t mind.

            cheers, Paul

      • #2316186
        rebop2020
        AskWoody Plus

        Actually it was in reply to a comment directed to me. Was a bit hard for me to follow the threading as I replied being new here to these topics and formats. So question is open as to why these new elevateddiagnostics.

      • #2316187
        Paul T
        AskWoody MVP

        the Pause updates feature..was set to not configured..but I changed to disabled

        Change it back to not configured and reboot. Any joy?

        cheers, Paul

      • #2316743
        rebop2020
        AskWoody Plus

        Look in Settings App\Privacy\Diagnostics & feedback
        Minimal is:
        “Required diagnostic data”
        Improve inking and typing = OFF
        Tailored experiences = OFF
        Feedback frequency = Never

        Thanks. Sorry for the slow reply.

        Everything there is off. I think I have set something in GPEdit a while ago so that sections show managed by my Admin (me :). All off or grayed. And I have not set or changed anything there in a long, long time.

        So just to remind, this started recently. MAYBE(?) with an ESET update a month or so ago? Possible? I looked but did not find a new option that seemed to correlate to this. But never had these before and anything that touches windows update triggers those elevated diagnostics.

        The cab is small. The reports inside small and in xml. I have looked and do not see anything of interest showing why these elevateddiagnostics have started.

        ~Bob

         

        OK, more thinking. Since this is Elevated Diagnostics and never happened until recently, could something have changed permissions on trouble shooters to force Run as Administrator or do they always run that way? There is a setting under advanced for the Show/Hide shortcut for run as admin, but it is unchecked.

        • #2317010
          rebop2020
          AskWoody Plus

          Is there some other place you would post this seeking the answer for what changed to activate elevated diagnostics?

      • #2323229
        WildBill
        AskWoody Plus

        PK, as my signature indicates, I have 2 machines now. My question is with the refurbished Windows 10 machine that I’ll be buying from a friend soon. They’ve been kind enough to let me “try before I buy”, & they have never used it since they completed a training course. I just today decided to access this AKB, & my question relates to applying the December 2020 patches when MS-DEFCON changes, probably this week.

        Background: My Win10 machine is currently running Version 1909. It was on 1903, but I updated to 1909 before the previous version reached EOL. Feature Update deferral is set to 365 days. My machine has Conexant audio, so until those drivers are updated, or I decide to bypass them & use Microsoft default audio drivers instead, Microsoft won’t put Version 2004 on my machine. I’m cool with that, since neither Patch Lady Susan, you, nor any of the other AskWoody Bosses have okayed it yet. I’ll worry about 2004 (or 20H2, for that matter) when I’ve heard that the Green Light has been given.

        My specific question is about applying patches AKA Quality Updates. On Dec. 7, the day before this month’s Patch Tuesday (Dec. 8), I set the Quality Update deferral to 30 days. I think this is how Woody showed the GUI set. Having finally read AKB 2000016, I learned that you recommend Quality Update deferral be always set at 0. Similar to how Win 8.1 works (my old reliable), it will show that the patches are present & ready, but I must click a button or link to “Download and install now”.

        Here’s my plan when MS-DEFCON changes to 3, 4, or 5: Change the Quality Update deferral to 0 days, verify that the proper patch appears & is ready to install, then click on the button or link to let Microsoft make the Magic happen. Of course, backups will be done 1st. Leave Quality Update deferral at 0 for the foreseeable future. Obviously this machine has Win 10 Pro installed, or I wouldn’t be talking about these GUI settings. I’d be using the Pause Updates for Win 10 Home. I’ll be notified via e-mail on my Win 8.1 machine for any follow-up replies, so let me know if I’ve got this right, or should do something different before MS-DEFCON changes. As for the current 30 day setting, if I do nothing, patches should appear on 01/05/21. This is the “A” week Tuesday, when non-security Office patches are dropped. Thank You!

        2 Machines for Now!
        #1: Windows 8.1, 64-bit, back in Group A.
        #2: Getting close to buying a refurbished Windows 10 64-bit, recently updated to v1909. Have broke the AC adapter cord going to the 8.1 machine, but before that, coaxed it into charging. Need to buy new adapter if wish to continue using it.
        Wild Bill Rides Again...

        • #2323240
          PKCano
          Manager

          There are three settings you need for Win10 Pro 1909. They are explained in AKB2000016 Sections 3 and 4. There are screenshots below (scroll down) to show where the Group Policy “2” is located. (You also need wushowhide.):

          GUI: Windows Update\Advanced settings Feature Deferral pulldown =365, Quality Deferral pulldown = 0
          Group Policy:
          Computer Configuration\Administrative Templates\Windows Components\Windows Update
          Configure Automatic Updates = Enabled, value = 2 (notify download/install)

          By setting the “2” in GP, the updates will not download to your PC until you click the “Download” button (NOT “check for updates”). This will allow you to hide the ones you do not want with wushowhide, then clear the WU queue, so you only have the ones you want showing in WU. Then you can download.

          Using those settings, you do not need Pause or Metered connections.

          When you get ready to upgrade to 2004 (or later) you will need to change the settings as stated in AKB2000016 Section 5, as the GUI pulldowns will no longer be available. This change should be done immediately prior to the upgrade so they are in effect for 2004 from the start.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2325426
        wavy
        AskWoody Plus

        Maybe some one could parse this MS Doc quote for me:

        When you set the target version policy, if you specify a feature update version that is older than your current version or set a value that isn’t valid, the device will not receive any feature updates until the policy is updated. When you specify target version policy, feature update deferrals will not be in effect.

        The first sentence seems (to me) to be implying I could set the version to say 1111 and I would

        not receive any feature updates until the policy is updated

        from https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/deployment/update/waas-wufb-group-policy#i-want-to-stay-on-a-specific-version

        🍻

        Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.
        • #2325496
          Paul T
          AskWoody MVP

          Correct, but for clarity it’s best to use a valid number.

          cheers, Paul

          1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2337180
        Tex265
        AskWoody Plus

        If I am reading Section 5. Method 2 with corresponding screen shots correctly, after all the directions and commentary, it appears we need to Enable and set only one (1) item under GP Windows Update > Windows Update for Business.  And that is “Select the target Feature Update version”.

        “Select when Preview Builds and Feature Updates are received”  is to utilize Feature Update deferral days and this should not be set when utilizing Target Release Version setting. Or Enabled with deferral days set to 1 or 0. But then advised it will be ignored anyway so why not just leave as Not Configured.

        “Select when Quality Updates are received”  should be set to 0 days or left Not Configured.

        There is no commentary provided to do anything with the remaining two (2) settings:

        “Disable safeguards for Feature Updates”  Default =Not Configured

        “Manage preview builds”  Default = Not Configured

        Windows 10 Pro x64 v1909 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 (RIP)
        • #2337181
          WCHS
          AskWoody Plus

          “Select when Preview Builds and Feature Updates are received” is to utilize Feature Update deferral days and this should not be set when utilizing Target Release Version setting. Or Enabled with deferral days set to 1 or 0. But then advised it will be ignored anyway so why not just leave as Not Configured.

          My understanding is that if you Enable with deferral days set to 1 or 0, you will not get any Previews on the WU screen (not even with a Download button) – not any CU Previews or any .NET Previews. That’s how it’s working in Version 1909, using the GUI.

          • #2337189
            Tex265
            AskWoody Plus

            Can you point me to where you obtained that info as PK only addresses using the setting by selecting Semi Annual Channel and that controls Feature Update days deferral.

            The settings box says: “Enable this policy to specify the level of Preview Build or Feature Updates to receive, and when.”

            That seems to be either or?

            PK makes this statement in the AKB

            Group Policy settings under Windows Update for Business.
            I do not configure to receive C-week, D-week, and E-week (or any “Previews”) released other than the Security Updates released on Patch Tuesday (=B-week = second Tuesday).
            Care must also be taken here. “Preview Builds” refer to Insider Releases which are also not configured.”

            But I could figure out why or what to do with it.

            Windows 10 Pro x64 v1909 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 (RIP)
            • This reply was modified 1 day, 16 hours ago by Tex265.
            • #2337195
              Tex265
              AskWoody Plus

              But I could figure out why or what to do with it.

              Should read “But I could not figure out why or what to do with it.”

              It appears in the Section 5, Method 2 narrative (second paragraph).

              Windows 10 Pro x64 v1909 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 (RIP)
              • #2337197
                PKCano
                Manager

                Follow the instructions for Group Policy in AKB2000016 Section 5 and see #2286499.

              • #2337207
                Tex265
                AskWoody Plus

                Per AKB and #2286499

                **NOTE: When delaying version updates, you should choose either Feature Deferrals OR TargetReleaseVersion settings. You should not use both. If you use TargetReleaseVersion, set deferrals to 0 0r 1, as they are going to be ignored anyway.

                This wording is confusing.

                “you should choose either …. OR”  “You should not use both”  [BUT] “If you use TargetReleaseVersion [setting] set deferrals to 0 or 1….” [in  Feature Deferrals even though I told you not to use both]   What?

                Windows 10 Pro x64 v1909 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 (RIP)
              • #2337212
                PKCano
                Manager

                The guide is based on experience and recommendations from knowledgeable sources.
                The suggested settings work.
                But there is no obligation for anyone to follow the guidance.
                If you have a better method, by all means, use it.

                1 user thanked author for this post.
              • #2337241
                Tex265
                AskWoody Plus

                All I would like to know is whether or not we are supposed to use both setting at the same time.

                Windows 10 Pro x64 v1909 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 (RIP)
              • #2337357
                PKCano
                Manager

                Here is a direct quote from AKB2000016. Let me interpret the meaning

                Using Target Release Version to stay on current version or to upgrade to a designated version.
                […]
                **NOTE: When delaying version updates, you should choose either Feature Deferrals OR TargetReleaseVersion settings. You should not use both. If you use TargetReleaseVersion, set deferrals to 0 0r 1, as they are going to be ignored anyway.

                “You should choose either Feature Deferrasl OR TargetReleaseVersion settings” means the setting you use to control updates should be one or the other. Are you trying to control which version you maintain OR are you trying to prevent/change versions in a given number of days. If you want to maintain v2004, for example. you should set TRV to 2004. If you want to defer (delay) the upgrade to v2004 for 120 days, then upgrade, you should use Deferral = 120. But you should NOT USE BOTH to maintain 2004 for 120 days, because the 120-day deferral will be ignored and the TRV=2004 will prevail. You would NOT be getting the results you intended.

                If you use TRV to control Feature upgrades, using deferral = 0 or 1, as suggested, is NOT using deferral as a means of controlling Feature Upgrades (because it will be ignored), so you are NOT USING BOTH.

                But if you look at the settings for Feature deferral (see the second screenshot in #2275043), you may find other things involved and setting it to 0 or 1 just might be advantageous.

                It might help you to understand the suggestions if you look at all the settings involved.

              • #2337509
                Tex265
                AskWoody Plus

                If you use TRV to control Feature upgrades, using deferral = 0 or 1, as suggested, is NOT using deferral as a means of controlling Feature Upgrades (because it will be ignored), so you are NOT USING BOTH. But if you look at the settings for Feature deferral (see the second screenshot in #2275043), you may find other things involved and setting it to 0 or 1 just might be advantageous.

                PK, thanks and I am not trying to be difficult just questioning if what is being instructed over and over is needed. Practically the result is Windows is not functionally using both settings, but technically both are activated for no stated purpose.

                You are saying don’t use both GP settings. MS is saying if you use the TVR setting,  the “Select when Preview Builds and Feature Updates are received” setting is ignored.

                The second screen shot shows the “Select when Preview Builds and Feature Update are received” setting with Semi-Annual Channel selected which equates to activating the Feature Updates control for which we are told to enter 0 or 1 for the days deferred.

                So technically, we have activated both the TRV setting AND the Feature Update deferral setting. In reality the Feature Update deferral setting will be ignored once the system recognizes that the TRV setting is Enabled and takes priority. Therefore after suggesting its best practive that we use the TRV setting why are we even being told to Enable the other  setting that in the end is ignored? Why not just leave it Not Configured?

                “Select when Preview Builds and Feature Update are received” setting can be used for other items, but we are not being advised/shown to utilize/activate those other options, just the Feature Update deferral.

                Is there something else not mentioned that enabling the Feature Update setting is doing?

                 

                Windows 10 Pro x64 v1909 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 (RIP)
              • #2337225
                anonymous
                Guest

                I’m just trying to understand what settings to use when I move to ver 2004.

                Can you pls explain the dichotomy between the 2 instructions.

                Are we to use both settings, TRV and GP Feature Updates set to 0 or 1 days, or only one or the other?

                Is what @WCHS says below correct?

                My understanding is that if you Enable with deferral days set to 1 or 0, you will not get any Previews on the WU screen (not even with a Download button) – not any CU Previews or any .NET Previews. That’s how it’s working in Version 1909, using the GUI.

              • #2337244
                Susan Bradley
                Manager

                I would recommend that you pick one or the other but not both.  Not that anything horrific will happen, just that it will be easier on you to remember which option you picked.  I prefer the targetreleaseversion method these days, but that’s just me.

                Susan Bradley Patch Lady

            • #2337199
              WCHS
              AskWoody Plus

              Can you point me to where you obtained that info ..

              I’m only mentioning how it works in GUI version 1909 (and TRV set). I am not on 2004 yet, but I know that it doesn’t have the GUI anymore and that you have to use GP instead. I am assuming that you can get the same 1909 GUI FU Deferral settings in 2004 by using the GP settings (since GUI is not available in 2004).

              If you want me to tell you where I found info about setting FU Deferrals to 0 or 1, with TRV set, to prevent CU Previews and .NET Previews — all in version 1909, I will try to find that. But, I do know that being in 1909, I am not getting CU Previews and .NET Previews (not even with a Download button), and I believe that this is the case because with TRV=1909, I also have FU Deferrals set to 1.

              Also, look at the signature of @CraigS26 on Jan 10, 2021 (I believe that he has now moved to 20H2).

              • This reply was modified 1 day, 15 hours ago by WCHS.
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        CraigS26
        AskWoody Plus

        If you want me to tell you where I found info about setting FU Deferrals to 0 or 1, with TRV set, to prevent CU Previews and .NET Previews — all in version 1909, I will try to find that. But, I do know that being in 1909, I am not getting CU Previews and .NET Previews (not even with a Download button), and I believe that this is the case because with TRV=1909, I also have FU Deferrals set to 1. Also, look at the signature of @CraigS26 on Jan 10, 2021 (I believe that he has now moved to 20H2).

        I am on 20H2 (1/18) having made TRV “Not Configured” prior to Clk’ing the “Update Now” button on the 20H2 dnload page.

        Feature Deferral is “1” strictly per PKC’s prior post to block Preview CU’s, TRV is now Not Configured, and Semni-Annual (I think) because I don’t fear Feature Updates (while having Images). I presume (in Bus Update) Quality Updates Enabled = 0 and “Not Configured” are the same, but I’ll leave my Signature showing QU=0.

        Worth repeating that multi-posters here/elsewhere had No Issues updating to 20H2 WHILE UN-installing their Conexant Driver ( & NOT chk’ing the DELETE software Box that appears in DevMgr). The Same Conexant Driver Data is there after 20H2 loaded and me doing nothing to cause it. Others posted they “Installed” the MS Driver after the Uninstall, and I presumed (they didn’t say) they Clk’d Search for drivers and MS provided it. Were I a “basic” setup  like me I wouldn’t fear 20H2 as long as Images were made prior. Great so far.

        W10 Pro 20H2 / Hm-Stdnt Ofce '16 C2R / HP Envy Desktop-Ethernet/ 12 GB / 256G SSD + 1 TB HDD / i5-8400 Coffee Lake/ GP=2 + FtrU=Semi-Annual + Feature Defer = 1 + QU=0

        • This reply was modified 2 hours, 39 minutes ago by CraigS26.
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