Computer with a GPT partitioned HDD to work with an External MBR partitioned HDD

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Computer: Belarc reports TOSHIBA Satellite S55-C PSPTNU-00E00M
— It’s a new computer & Belarc reports the OS Windows 10 Home (x64) was installed: 2/20/2016.
— The computer label reads Toshiba Satellite S55-C5274
Computer hard drive: TOSHIBA MQ01ABD100 1TB
— Disk management reports Partition style: GUID Partition Table (GPT)
— Belarc reports Boot Mode: UEFI with successful Secure Boot

External hard drive:
Toshiba Canvio DTD210 1TB External HDD
Disk management reports Partition style: (Master Boot Record [MBR])
Disk management also shows 101MB Unallocated partition

44776-Gails-disk-management-06-16-16

The owner complained that the external drive is full and that she cannot create a System Image backup.
I’m not a hardware person but I suspect the issue is the difference in their partition tables is the issue.
— If I’m wrong about that, please let me know so I address the problem that needs to be taken care of.
Right now the external hard drive properties show Usable: 931GB Used: 735GB Free: 196GB.
— I calculated the used space on the external hard drive to be only about 183GB.

44777-Gails-external-hard-drive-properties-06-16-16

I have read some articles pertaining to MBR vs. GPT but they are pretty challenging to me.
If there is a fairly easy fix, I’m willing to try it but I usually like to create a system image backup before trying anything major.

Is there something I can do so she can use her external hard drive on her computer?

HP EliteBook 8540w laptop Windows 10 Pro (x64)

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Cmptrgy,

This should not be a problem at all. I use several different MBR/NTFS external drives with all my computers which have that have both GPT & MBR partitioned drives. I think the problem lies elsewhere. The first place I’d look is the software being used to make the backups?

Depending on the compression ration you’re getting mighty close to full on that external drive and it might be time to delete some old backups before proceeding.

What software are you using? I surely hope it isn’t Windows Backup.

:cheers:

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

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Can you copy other files to the external drive?

+1 for don’t use Windows backup. There are plenty of free alternatives (plus Aomei Backupper).

cheers, Paul

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RG that’s a relief to me. Paul, the owner has manually copied some files onto the external hard drive.
There are pointers to a couple of system image backups from a couple of other computers in Nov 2014 & another one in June 2015 but their properties show 0 space taken up.

I think it will be a good idea to save the copied files for her
Then uninstall the external hard drive followed up by reinstalling it so I’ll know what the original entries are.

On the “Disk management also shows 101MB Unallocated partition” it appears to me that I can right click on that black bar I think it was and convert it to a Simple Volume?
— Should I consider that or is there something else I can do?

HP EliteBook 8540w laptop Windows 10 Pro (x64)

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On the “Disk management also shows 101MB Unallocated partition” it appears to me that I can right click on that black bar I think it was and convert it to a Simple Volume?
— Should I consider that or is there something else I can do?

I’d leave it alone. It’s probably a result of formatting. (That 101 megabytes is a very small amount. And, consider the percentage; divide that by 1 TB to see the relative amount as compared to the entire drive. It’s practically nothing.)

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RG that’s a relief to me. Paul, the owner has manually copied some files onto the external hard drive.
There are pointers to a couple of system image backups from a couple of other computers in Nov 2014 & another one in June 2015 but their properties show 0 space taken up.

The screenshot showed 735GB used, but you could only identify 183GB of that. Is it possible that these image files that show as 0 space are hidden from you due to security settings? If I recall correctly, when I use TreeSize on a drive that has protected files/folders, they can show up as zero.

Having said that, I don’t see the point in keeping system images unless the owner knows what they are from and how good the PC state was at the time, so why not ask? Having said that, you’ll have to mess with the security settings to delete them.

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Created a system image backup onto my WS My Passport Ultra external hard drive using MRF which is what I use on my own computer. Presently creating a USB Recovery Drive including system files.
After that I’ll address everything on her Toshiba external hard drive.

HP EliteBook 8540w laptop Windows 10 Pro (x64)

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Dear things on external drive… 🙂

cheers, Paul

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Paul I have followed up on what data is on the external hard drive.
In post 6, I mentioned, “I’ll address everything on her Toshiba external hard drive”
There is about 225GB of copied documents and a few entries I can address.
With the 196GB of free space available plus the 225GB, that becomes 421GB of free space out of 1TB.
That leaves 479GB left on that external hard drive since I don’t know what other entries to remove.

As I was scouring the external hard drive on what to deal with, Toshiba checked it to see if the drivers were up to date and reported that they are.
But then a dialog box showed up reporting that the Toshiba Canvio program might not have installed properly.

44783-Canvio-might-not-have-installed-correctly

I see it includes a selection to install using compatibility settings but since it appears to me that even after cleaning up used space there is still going to be 50% of used space.
— Even if I’m off by 100GB, the basic setup under the present condition will still be about 40% full.

So if I remove that 50% will Toshiba recognize it and download the drivers it’s supposed to have like a new unit?
— I’d like to see what it would be if possible.

HP EliteBook 8540w laptop Windows 10 Pro (x64)

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I’m transferring copied data from the external hard drive into a dedicated folder on the desktop so that the owner will see the difference when all of this is completed. The folder I’m transferring now has 272,224 items estimated to take about 2 hours and it takes up 179GB.
She actively volunteers at our senior center and takes many, many pictures. I am going to recommend that she purchase at least a 2TB external HDD.
However I think it would be a good idea to purchase an even larger external HDD.
— If I understand it correctly a larger hard drive is designed to work with GPT formatted hard drives and she should be able to use a 3TB without any problems to create system image backups on it
— Is that true? I just want to make sure I give her the right information.

HP EliteBook 8540w laptop Windows 10 Pro (x64)

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Your earlier images indicate that all the disk is being used so the apparently missing 400 GB will be there somewhere. Try TreeSize Free to list drive use.

Canvio appears to be the Toshiba backup program. Do she actually uses this to backup? If not, uninstall it.
What backup program is she using?

Hard drives do not need to be designed to work with GPT – in fact they don’t either know or care about the format you use.

Don’t buy a new disk until you sort out the issue with this one – you still have plenty of free space in the short term.

cheers, Paul

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Thanks for your answers. I will be talking with the owner during this coming week to explain what she needs to properly create system image backups and save data personally also. Last year she lost a ton of pictures and has been more than pro-active on trying to save what she needs to save but I’ll be glad to explain to her what she needs to know. I have already installed Macrium Reflect Free and used it to create a system image backup onto my WD My Passport Ultra external hard drive. I just joined the MSFT ranks: hey, if you don’t want it, just uninstall it. All kidding aside, I think she’ll be ok with it.
On the items showing 0’s they are dated back to 2014 & 2015 and she tells me it’s ok to delete them. Although that’s enough to do, I’m not doing so until we have our meeting this week.

I have another item to ask about. In post 9 I mentioned I was transferring 272,224 (that was in one folder) items that was taking up 179GB. At 99% there were some files in which a dialog showed up reporting “there is not enough memory to complete this operation”. I don’t know how many but how does that happen and what does that mean?

44791-Not-enough-memory

HP EliteBook 8540w laptop Windows 10 Pro (x64)

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…At 99% there were some files in which a dialog showed up reporting “there is not enough memory to complete this operation”. I don’t know how many but how does that happen and what does that mean?

I have never seen that myself, but a brief Google suggests it may be a file permissions problem – that folder (?) has the sort of garbage name that system operations produce, so the folder may be protected in some way.

Having said that, how are you copying? I prefer drag & drop, I’ve never been clear whether using the copy & paste options creates temporary in-memory copies of the files (it doesn’t make sense to do so, but hey, this is MS we are talking about). Update: Xp doesn’t do this

Another possibility is that the folder is compressed, and the copy operation has to uncompress it. This is just a wild guess. I would go with the suggestion to use another program to copy, my Google search suggested Teracopy, but I have never tried it.

Another point: do you or the owner have any idea what those 272 thousand files (in one folder !) are for? Sounds like garbage to me. Best to tidy up the hard drive before backing it up.

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Cmptrgy,

I’m assuming you were trying to copy via either Copy/Paste or Drag/Drop?

I’d suggest using XCopy from the command prompt as a better method. You could also use RoboCopy and/or PowerShell to accomplish the task using less memory.

HTH :cheers:

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

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I found too may files all over the place , at least 2 full copies of drive C and what looks like a bunch of duplicates: that’s it for me.
I prefer to just delete everything on the hard drive and just use MRF to create system image backups.
— I’ll work with the owner on what files and pictures she wants to save before doing that.
On the command prompt idea, I use a batch file to save my data using xcopy and it works out fine.
— I’m going to recommend the same for her.
She did tell me she copies her data when she wants to onto that external hard drive
— A combination of cleaning up what’s needed and some good basic training should work out fine.
— She lost a lot of pictures last year and is really trying very hard to make sure it doesn’t happen again but I remember my roots when I didn’t know what I was doing but I’ll do my best to see that she gets to understand what’s needed.

HP EliteBook 8540w laptop Windows 10 Pro (x64)

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As an alternative you could load Aomei Backupper and use that to create an image and do regular file backups – MR free doesn’t do file backups. Then she only has to use the one program to backup everything.

cheers, Paul

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I run CHKDSK on my computers once a year.
My computers show a pie chart when I bring up the HDD’s properties.

Checking the HDD properties on this computer shows a circular image.
Is running CHKDSK still a good idea?
If it is I’m going to include that in my recommendations to my friend.

EDIT: I was using my Win7 computer and noticed the HDD properties does show the pie chart. Then I checked my Win10 computer and it showed the circular image
So I guess it’s a Win10 report. So I’m all set on my question and will not have a problem recommending to run CHKDSK once a year.

HP EliteBook 8540w laptop Windows 10 Pro (x64)

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Regular checks are a good idea, just not registry cleaners.

cheers, Paul

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I am going to mark this thread as solved. The subject of this thread has morphed into the actual cause and correct solution. The owner has agreed to the following: clean out the external hard drive completely and properly create system image backups to it. If issues arise, I’ll create a new thread addressing the issue at hand. Thanks everyone.

HP EliteBook 8540w laptop Windows 10 Pro (x64)

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