• Computerworld’s Gregg Keizer and the Get Windows 10 “nuclear option”

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    Second hard-hitting editorial about Get Windows 10 today. Gregg Keizer at Computerworld unloads a beltfull. Computerworld.
    [See the full post at: Computerworld’s Gregg Keizer and the Get Windows 10 “nuclear option”]

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    • #41119

      turned off all services associated with installing updates altogether long ago, so [*] tired…

    • #41120

      I really can’t see why people get so steamed up about this. ALL you have to do is run Josh Mayfield’ GWX Control Panel before and after getting the latest batch of Win7 updates each month. I look after several non technical friends’ computers as well as my wife’s and my own various computers. I use GWX Control Panel on all of them and there have been absolutely no Win10 related problems on any of them. Problem solved as far as I am concerned.
      No need for obsessive checking of KB numbers at all – in fact on one computer I have installed every one of the available updates, recommended and optional as an experiment, and there have been no Win10 related problems or indeed any others.

    • #41121

      Absolutely correct.
      I have few updates blacklisted, but it is all like a game, they get installed and uninstalled to see if it makes a difference, which they don’t. All those blacklisted updates have in their description Windows 10.
      On Windows 7 they are:

      Strictly speaking, only not installing KB3035883 and installing anything else will keep the computer safe from being upgraded to Windows 10.

      Strictly speaking, there is no need to install the GWX Control Panel, it is useful only for peace of mind in case KB3035883 gets installed.

    • #41122

      Well….. I run Josh’s programme, but I also like to be kept informed about all this. And it’s best not to have all your eggs in one basket so to speak…you never know when perhaps MS might break Josh’s programme. Its best to spread it around and being informed/forewarned is to be forearmed.

      But the big thing in my mind is the question “where is all this leading us to…… ” … it’s not just a case of what is happening now…….. but rather what it is leading us to. And I think this is what is causing people to be ‘steamed up’ about as you put it. Also think you should consider yourself lucky that you’ve not had problems with your updates….. many have.
      Not saying you haven’t got a good point there…….but think people are justified in feeling a certain apprehension about all this. Just my thoughts! LT

    • #41123

      Why do people get steamed up about this? We are customers of this corporation, not its lackeys.
      Aside from simple security concerns, we should never have to use third party software to “protect” ourselves from MS. NO means no.

    • #41124


      Kudos to you 🙂
      for seeing the BIG picture…

      The question and there is only one, really….

      Blue pill


      Red pill

      Whether the awakening is “before” or “between” or “after” whatever that they have or planning or executed….

      for we know or still in full denial or hope-dope
      that the dark side has only one command line

      “Resistence is futile”

      Thats their nature and arguebly their innate program.
      And I cannot change them.

      Thats looking the west side story from the east side…
      hence almost a programable outcome for any who is still on the same path(program)… can there possibly be a different “I am saved/safe” un-program outcome?

      can a country/people led/control by nazism have liberty, life and the right to persue happiness?

      so is it not “which” pill time? or are we still waiting/heading for the after effects party/mess/gone?

      decide what is best for you – good luck

      anyone think MS will have a new boss soon 🙂

      Just thinking outloud

    • #41125

      You cannot see why people are so steamed up about this, you say. The answer is simple: TRUST IS GONE. You can, for yourself, continue with trusting in that MS correctly labels and mislabels updates and put their poisonous stuff into unsuspicious patches, you can trust in them to play fair and transparent and that red lines will not be crossed and GWX will be respected and all will be fine again, and so on. You can trust in them to be kind and nice in the future.

      But many people, after the fouls played by MS over the past 12-18 months, do not feel well to depend on this trust anymore – TO BE AT MS’s MERCY, and at their mercy alone.

      That’s why more and more people end up switching off all and any upgrade process, and background tasks connecting to MS servers. Because they do not trust them anymore.

      Do you now understand why people feel so steamed up about it? They are tired of needing to spend much time for scanning the tech news and nevertheless being highly vulnerable – and completely at the mercy of Microsoft.

      GWX does not effectively work like it does because MS has not found a way to get around it. You can bet money that they know how to render it uselss, if they want. GWX still functions because MS – for whatever their reasons are – still have not decided to bypass GWX and push their stuff via other updates on people’s machines. Its not a coding thing that hinders them, its a political thing.

      AND THAT POLICY CAN CHNAGE JUST ANY DAY. Or another of their opportune technical mishaps strike users. Yu know, one of these errors and technical failures that serve MS interest so well and for which they later apologize with big tears in their eyes.

      Trust is lost. It would be stupid and naive to invest it into MS again. Not after last years’ and this years’ actions of theirs.

      We have a saying in German, translated into English, it would be this: “To trust is nice – having control is better.”

    • #41126

      Microsoft is forcing the American public to bend to it’s will, which is, you,ll get our Win 10 OS and you will only run programs that we say you can. I , for one, have numerous programs on my PC (about 138), many of which would be obliterated by Win 10. The most prevalent is my DVD/Blue ray copier and also ‘old music conversion to digital cd. These programs can take all security away and copy to dvd/blue ray and music cd’s perfectly. All legal as long as I don’t sell them. Just an small example of what I loose. Actually Microsoft Win 10 will extinguish approximately 8 of their own software programs, never to be seen again. These programs, even though, no longer supported by MS, still work perfectly. I am running 2009 installation of Win 7 Home Premium build 7601, which has not been altered. Runs perfectly. Don’t let MS sneak into your life. By 2018 MS will NOT have one billion installs of Win 10. Their percentages of Win 10 to Win 7,8.1 are only in their favor and not real. Good luck America!

    • #41127

      Where this is leading for me is no Windows on any of my machines. I started using Linux Mint at the beginning of this fiasco, almost a year ago. However, I still need MS Word for complex documents with tables and for editing PowerPoints. LibreOffice is very good, but I have to collaborate with people who use MS Office, and when you are trading documents back and forth, LibreOffice doesn’t always cut it. I can easily see a future without Microsoft, however, even if I have to use Apple products.

      I have GWX Control Panel installed, but I have basically stopped upgrading Win 7. I just don’t use it to access the web.

    • #41128

      Trust everyone, but cut the cards…

    • #41129

      I don’t trust Microsoft any more. Should the company’s behavior concerning Windows 10 upgrade appear to have respected the user’s ability in that a user with detective skills had the means to prohibit the upgrade, or not, Microsoft had definitely tarnished its image, its notoriety by using tricks generally found on malware distribution and not on what had been known as a reliable world corporation.

      Many users have now blocked Windows Updates, with the security implications : see what you’ve done, Microsoft?

      The company had opted for an aggressive, military organized aggression on its Windows 7 & 8 users, a Blitz Krieg so to say, a wrong strategy which is proving its lack of brains wherever it was initiated, controlled, inflated.

      When there is a mutiny the captain is always responsible, whatever his arguments. There is a planetary mutiny and Captain Microsoft is responsible. Period.

      If I weren’t in the good mood I am right now I might very well think out loud, even codify those thoughts with acceptable terminology, thoughts made of a number of very, very very big and uneducated fat words addressed to Microsoft. But I am in a good mood, happy with a Windows 7 which I managed to avoid the aggressor’s torpedoes. And if I ever hesitated to upgrade this shame will have definitely prevented me from doing so.

      I will NEVER install Windows 10.

    • #41130

      If I recall correctly, the Borg were eventually defeated. So, is resistance futile? No.

      Problem is that most people are clueless or couldn’t give a hoot; they don’t really realize the potential of technological misuse. Many will answer: “I have nothing to hide, nothing of interest to corps or gov’t”; failing to realize that being profiled can make you a target for many many devious schemes on the part of those same corps or gov’t. Maybe you have streaks of dissent and mistrust in your “dear all-knowing leaders” – which makes you an undesirable citizen in some eventualities. Maybe an insurer will refuse you coverage because he knows what health problems you often search for on the net. You get the idea.

      Microsoft, Apple, Google; any walled garden eventually becomes a prison, even if it has nice gold plated bars on the window.

    • #41131

      Three comments.

      1. Microsoft has been hit before by the European Commission for abuse of monopoly position and unless they’ve changed their line at the EC in Brussels, Microsoft’s behavior vis a vis Win X seems to put them on a collision course with the EC.

      2. Is Microsoft operating from a position of arrogant strength or is this the last gasp of the mastodon? In other words is it that they realize that in the long term Microsoft is doomed if they can’t force their users to Win X with its attendant business model? Think Nokia, think Blackberry–companies which were very successful but which were passed by and left behind on the highway of technological innovation. Isn’t the danger that the old Microsoft model–new OS for a laptop/desktop– is no longer viable?

      3. Linux entry-level distros might have a future. Put your shoulders to the Wine wheel, guys.

    • #41132

      I tend to have the same point of view. It’s take it or leave it from Microsoft.
      The issue has more to do with the fact that Microsoft has an almost monopoly position and in many ways is perceived as having a social obligation to the society as a whole, not only to its customers, individual or corporate.

    • #41133

      Two recent experiences among all too many: I won’t go into how the users upgraded to Windows 10, they swear it was unprompted, they just woke up and found they had Windows 10, but I didn’t see what happened, only the aftermath.

      One user couldn’t “print anything”. Actually that turned out to be that he couldn’t print any of his Open Office documents, which with some investigation turned out to be that he was running a very outdated version of OO. Updated to the current version, printing was fine. OO had been installed by whoever had originally set up his Windows 7 computer, but the user didn’t KNOW anything about it, other than it was a free alternative to MS Office and he could write letters with it. He would never have known that an OO upgrade was the answer and it cost him to have someone recognise that very simple solution.

      Another user had upgraded without paying attention to his antivirus program and it was causing all sorts of problems, not least that elements of it couldn’t be uninstalled, prior to installing the current version, because the uninstall routine was ‘incompatible with this OS’. Likewise it cost him to have someone sort it all out.

      I think I have beefed before that the Windows 10 upgrade is costing people serious money, which hardly makes it ‘free’. Of course there are ways to prevent it, not least the excellent GWX Control Panel, but the average computer user won’t be aware of them. They don’t access technical sites, they just expect their computer to work and trust that Microsoft won’t wreck it. Every time someone contacts me and starts off with “I seem to have upgraded to Windows 10” my blood pressure rockets in angry expectation of the problems. Could I sue Microsoft for my bp problems?!

    • #41134

      ch100: As I understand it, your position consists of this:

      1.) All updates must be accepted, or the computer will eventually prove to be disabled in some way you have not specified (an article of faith on your part). The updates are a seamless whole (another article of faith) and cannot be messed with. You then make exceptions for our infamous friend KB 3038553 and, IIRC, some other updates. Or alternatively you advise users to depend entirely on GWX Control Panel.

      2.) You are not worried about M$ spying and dismiss as ridiculous attempts to control it.

      Just so we know where you stand. It has become clear that you intend to prevail by sheer repetition, so a little clarity along the way would be helpful.

    • #41135

      … or my gray hair?

    • #41136

      I’ve seen almost no evidence of Win10 on my computer. Back in May/June 2015, when reading Woody and thinking I didn’t want to go with Win10 just yet, I uninstalled 3035883 and 2952664. I have diligently hidden them since, and haven’t been bothered with the fiascos I read about. But I’m a person who has always done the updates manually, trusting Woody’s and Susan Bradley’s advice.

    • #41137

      @john00880 In other words is it that they realize that in the long term Microsoft is doomed if they can’t force their users to Win X with its attendant business model?

      It is exactly how it is.

    • #41138


      It is as you posted.
      The updates have inter-dependencies and it is too hard, if not impossible to identify them all. I think that there are only 2 ways to use Windows correctly:
      1. Update as per manufacturer’s instructions like you would treat a warranty job
      2. Stop updating, either by not installing any update after SP1 or by not installing any update after installing every update up to a certain month. This involves certain security risks and the degree of tolerance for those risks is different for any user.

      I find it more or less ridiculous to keep complaining about what Microsoft does and at the same time continue using their product. There are nuances in this statement because Microsoft has an almost monopoly position and a lot of people have to use Windows for various reasons. But those people who do not have to use Windows or moving to another product would not cause them financial or other type of hardship, should do just that and use their time more effectively instead of complaining.
      I am posting for those who are interested in the technicalities behind Windows and not in the politics of spying and snooping and who may use the information which is collected.
      Snowden and Assange have revealed everything that was to be revealed, the rest is up to everyone how they use that information. And this was happening before Microsoft doing telemetry. Remember project ECHELON? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON

    • #41139

      “Many users have now blocked Windows Updates, with the security implications : see what you’ve done, Microsoft?”

      MS would answer, “ah, that proves you are stupid. You should be kept under control. Use Windows Ten!”

      This is the same company that respond to the complains about the snooping on the WX as one of reason for not moving to W10 by install telemetry on earlier Windows. What kind of company that do that as response to the complains? The good company would have either given the users a way out or something else.

      I am with you about W10. There were a few times where I did consider buying a computer with Windows Ten in future but each of those times were destroyed by MS’ actions.

      Right now, I truly fear what MS will do after July 29, as I bet that August will be full of forced “upgraded” with excuses that the users had scheduled it before July 29. I am also worried about July 29, 2017 as that is the end of Skylark support; I think that is when the trap shut in fullest and Win7/8 better watch their windows update afterward. That is kind of trust MS inspired in us.

      My apologies for my grumpy rant. 🙁

    • #41140

      I couldn’t tell what bothered the most the users who got upgraded to Windows 10 without their consent : was it the feeling of having been tricked or was it that what they found was, for many if not for most of them, an OS which posed many problems, technically speaking?

      If they had discovered a marvel would we be having this planetary revolt?

      As far as I’m concerned, if it is true that being pushed around to upgrade annoyed me quite a lot, I nevertheless believe that if at least the feedbacks had been enthusiastic I may have opted to give it a try. But the echoes have been so lousy, together with telemetry, ads everywhere, Win updates mandatory, a perception of a non finished OS … that all this together got me mad. Got us mad 🙂

      And everything so complicated, having to upgrade first to get the Product license seemed insane to me.

      If Microsoft had proposed a finished OS (always improvable but ready), non-mandatory updates, no spaghetti tracking, and made an iso file available for download and the Win7/8 users’ license accepted on Win10 install … maybe I’d be today a fan among the fans!

      But it turned out all the other way round. Like if I had met on a Christmas morning a drunk Santa yelling profanities and yelling at me to open my gifts: I’ve been as much disappointment as annoyed to be frank.

      Over 60 years old I guess I still believe in Santa 🙂

    • #41141

      I’ve used almost exactly the same approach. While it’s no big deal for me, I do have some friends that fell for GWX last year and regret it.I only know one person who upgraded to W10 and is quite happy, but IMO it’s their +100MBS fiber-optic ISP that alleviates the folks like myself would encounter with W10.

      I’ve used various Linux GUI’s on an old netbook, but recently re-installed XP that it came with. With enough security and safe surfing, XP is still totally usable. Bonus, a few old but perfectly functional peripherals only run on XP. While I am comfortable with Ubuntu or Mint, it’s a constant game of tweaking to replicate W7 (or even XP), wasting far more time than looking up W7 KB’s.

    • #41142

      Any SYSTEM expects all its components to work together.

      The only way for them to do that, in harmony, is for the interfaces between components to be rigorously defined and perfectly adhered-to by all the software using them.

      For interfaces that DO change, all the components that use the interface need to be up to the same build level. Those would, coincidentally be the components all TESTED together, too.

      In actuality, the interfaces between components in Windows ARE generally well-defined, and quite often different versions of components will work harmoniously together. That’s actually a testament to good design – and one of the reasons Windows has always provided such good compatibility with many different programs.


      What might NEVER have been tested together is a particular set of mix/match software where the user has hidden some updates but not others. Indeed, if an important interface has changed – and they DO change – if the components using it are no longer compatible things could go very wrong.

      Software and computers are all about details. Get just one wrong and it fails. With a system as complex as Windows you might not be easily able to tell, until you lose data or it crashes! Or just becomes more and more irritating to use over time (long delays doing Windows Update anyone?).

      Bottom line: It’s best, from a purely technical perspective, to keep a Windows system up to date, at least up to a well-defined point where it was all up to date together. **On this I agree 110% with ch100.**

      Hiding a few updates that are fairly well-defined – such as the GWX update – then accepting all other updates is probably okay, though it DOES bring on some risk.

      Hiding a bunch more, just because they say “Windows 10” in the text somewhere, but accepting still others is playing with fire.

      Make no mistake, you’re on your own in taking that risk. Ch100’s mention of “warranty” is entirely reasonable.

      I am personally considering accepting no more updates AT ALL for two pre-Windows 10 systems that I rely heavily upon. At the moment I have no instability or unresolved bugs on those systems, and my security environment is a LOT better than that of the general public, so I’m probably not too much at risk of getting the next “specially crafted web page” virus.

      It’s all about weighing the risk from things we can’t possibly know all about. Fun stuff, eh? Don’t oversimplify it.


    • #41143

      Yes, that works. It’s what I’ve done too. I had the earliest GWX get into a Win 7 system back in April or May 2015, but pulled it out and never had a DIR C:*GWX*.* /S turn anything up since.

      But that may not be enough. “They wouldn’t dare forcibly update my system” isn’t nearly as unthinkable as it used to be.

      Me, I keep the Windows Update service off and the Firewall on, and I still wonder if it will be enough. Who’s to say something like, say, Skype won’t slip something in? I use ALMOST no cloud-integrated stuff, but who truly uses NONE?


    • #41144

      Agree with ch100 – they clearly believe that now is the time to lock everyone in and down.

      But I don’t think they’re gasping just yet.


    • #41145

      If I may gently point out an interesting observation and inconsistency here…. This refer not to you, John as individual, but general public

      you begin with “So, is resistance futile?” and you answered yourself, ” No.” One word answer as if you are assured and resolute.

      then you end with “Microsoft, Apple, Google; any walled garden eventually becomes a prison, even if it has nice gold plated bars on the window.”

      So are you/we resisting inside of the wall garden/prison?

      To be free is to be outside of the wall garden/prison right?

      So in our discussion here is to trun away from MS and the lot and use something else eg. Linux, Mac or chinese/indian OS or dont use compuer and trade/work local right?

      Everything INSIDE of the prison is their game right? And they make the rules? And they declare the winner right?

      Again from my observation,
      “that the dark side has only one command line
      “Resistence is futile””
      this is NOT what I said, you seem to read wrongly.

      This is what I observe their programing is, of which you too has observe its a walled garden, this make their key holder the prison guard and those inside the prisoners. Would they not broadcast those subtle message to keep their power or sense of their power as if its 1984?

      Furthermore, freedom is not free. How many you know, in the west, from their comfy chair, would fight and die for freedom for your land and in your life? Many would already defeat themselve in their mind being indoctrinated with “Resistence is futile” hence leave them a free lunch for the big boss. Like the banking deal, many would say, “if I dont put my money in the bank, then where do I keep the safe?”

      I only came back here since woody is or seems to be a good guy in his laborious work here. But our discussion here is about the LONG TERM future/resolution, of which woody too seems to have no answer. Neither I except to say, freedom and privacy, for now, seems to be more secure and realistic outside of the prison.

      Nuff of me. Been great to chat abit here with some of you great minds… since I am contended to be only a simple user and dont update anymore and willing to forgo every newest play fad, I only come around to check the goss 🙂

      I am ready to burn my computer with MS/W7 if my ‘freedom’ is terminated 🙂 The last time I play a computer game was probably 1998 – dear me 🙂 Yes I might as well live in a cave 🙂

      Decide what is best for you – Good luck to you all

      Woody great work and service here – you help many who are still in it 🙂 Hopefully we have a good ending with this saga soon 🙂


    • #41146

      And still, you DO need to update…

    • #41147

      What bothers me the most about GWX, I think, is the realization that Microsoft can reach into hundreds of millions of PCs and modify them any way they like. That has to be driving regulators nuts.

      That, and the fact that Terry promised us an Off switch, which we never received.

    • #41148

      I think XP is still perfectly functional. It was artificially shut down by Microsoft and while I am aware that there is a way to get updates via the embedded version, it is still risky to be used.
      The main issue which you will encounter will be when you will try to install newer applications which may refuse to install or not work correctly.

    • #41149

      ch100: I appreciate the levelheaded response, but your attempt to characterize opposition to Microsoft’s spying as a political thing does not succeed. For me, and I believe for most of those who have posted on the subject here, it is primarily a question of whether M$ should be allowed to deprive them of their quiet possession of software licenses previously paid for.

      “Quiet possession” embraces the right to continue to use the software without changes being made to the terms of its use that go beyond what a reasonable purchaser would have expected at the time of the transaction. It is, in other words, primarily a question of Microsoft’s violation of user rights, not about Snowden et al.

      The fact that you think it ridiculous (thank your for your candor) to “keep complaining about what Microsoft does… [while] using their product” shows that you do not understand that purchasers of older versions of Windows acquired contractual rights in exchange for their cash–rights that include those specified in Microsoft’s one-sided EULAs and other rights that as a matter of law cannot be signed away.

    • #41150

      Certainly they’re not on the verge of filing for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy; I didn’t mean to suggest things were so dire. What I was trying to emphasize, however, was the notion that Microsoft was always there and always will be there isn’t necessarily valid and that perhaps Microsoft has realized that.

    • #41151

      Well said, ch100.


    • #41152

      The off switch is at the end of a maze that is not commonly known about, behind a technical knowledge test, and is labeled “ketchup”.

      “off switch provided, job done” –(the new)microsoft

      “we won’t bother business users with this upgrade prompt (only enterprise edition counts as business)” –(the new)microsoft

      “we won’t install without consent* (*consent may be provided automatically on your behalf)” –(the new)microsoft

      “it doesn’t count as installed if we give you an uninstall option labeled decline* (*install and uninstall not guaranteed to work, good luck.)” –(the new)microsoft

    • #41153

      OK, guys, but I put it down to personal preferences. There’s no disputing taste, and no disputing tolerance for snooping.

    • #41154

      “I find it more or less ridiculous to keep complaining about what Microsoft does and at the same time continue using their product.”

      It’s not ridiculous. And saying that sort of thing repeatedly in one way or the other doesn’t make that position any more correct.

      Woody prefers harmony (and respect for his preference).

      Besides, his site isn’t an easy or appropriate place to engage in _this sort_ of discussion/argumentation.

      I’ve already expressed my views many times here over the last few months, and I won’t go into that today.

      I’ve only just skimmed his responses here, but I expect that I am in agreement with what WDBurt1 has said about this in this particular discussion thread, and probably a lot of readers of Askwoody, including those that prefer not to actively participate by leaving commments, probably do too.

      It’s time to stop doing people down (calling them “ridiculous”) for having a legitimate, widely-shared, rational point of view.

    • #41155

      Precisely. Healthy debate is most welcome – particularly from those who disagree with me. Namecalling doesn’t accomplish anything.

    • #41156

      No they are not there, just trying to avoid it until it is too late. The Nokia deal provided a wake-up call to them.

    • #41157

      @NotReallyBob(fromanothercomputer) Just because you mentioned the Enterprise Edition, I think that this is the right time to clarify that there is a misconception about this edition, in the sense that many people believe that Enterprise Edition is spared from all the “good” things recently pushed through Windows Update. In fact all the telemetry updates are included, while the only patch not pushed to Enterprise Edition is KB3035883, the “nagware” patch.
      Which raises the question, how harmful are in reality the telemetry patches? Unlike what is commonly believed, a lot of businesses including many big ones, use Windows with most out of the box settings, tuning very little.

    • #41158

      I think there is a newer patch in the same “league” which is KB3123862. Although strictly speaking, avoiding only KB3035883 should be sufficient for not getting the Windows 10 upgrade notifications or the so-called forced upgrades.

    • #41159

      Well, on the plus side, it’s still attached.


    • #41160

      After two months of ignoring WU, I turned it on and did the security updates. I didn’t do the IE 11 update as I read somewhere (here I think) that one of these had a W10 package. Anyone have an issue with KB3154070? It is a matter of trust now, and I surely don’t trust MS.

      It seems likely to me that the privilege of using this OS in the future will require cash on a monthly or annual basis, at the very least to turn off the ads. We all know about what ‘free’ means. Beyond that, I see MS doing what a lot of others are doing; making a profit on your data.

      I appreciate having this source to vital information. Shouldn’t have to spend this much time here, but I like it. 🙂

    • #41161

      Get moved to IE 11 – and then don’t use it. There are parts of IE used by the operating system, so you need to keep it updated.

    • #41162

      Eenterprise users will find out how dangerous telemetry is the first time Microsoft is hacked and their proprietary data end up for sale, including to their competitors and customers.

      Or leave out the hacked part and just figure that M$ will eventually turn to selling information.

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