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  • Do you need to test cumulative updates?

    Home Forums AskWoody blog Do you need to test cumulative updates?

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      • #2172532 Reply
        woody
        Da Boss

        I just stumbled across this video made by Microsoft back in November, that discusses how Microsoft rolls out cumulative updates internally. It’s… st
        [See the full post at: Do you need to test cumulative updates?]

        9 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2172546 Reply
        _Reassigned Account
        AskWoody Lounger

        Well no surprise to most of us. Personally I think after Balmer left the focus turned past Windows to cloud systems and has never revisited that decision.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2172553 Reply
        Susan Bradley
        Da Boss

        Given that CSS (CSS is what Microsoft calls customer support) is also in the next room, it’s a little easier for them to get support on the line.  I am definitely starting/working on the Askwoody Windows Health dashboard this weekend.

        Susan Bradley Patch Lady

        • This reply was modified 8 months, 4 weeks ago by Susan Bradley.
        6 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2172582 Reply
        gkarasik
        AskWoody Lounger

        The only surprise is that they’re admitting to something we’ve all known for years. This is the reason they release the update “preview.” I love that they call it “application compatibility” testing as opposed to “find our s**** ups” testing. “Beta” testing is itself a euphemism, so they’ve eupemized a euphemism (along the way to euthanizing quality control).

        GaryK

        4 users thanked author for this post.
        • #2172592 Reply
          Michael Austin
          AskWoody Plus

          “euthanizing quality control” – I love that 😉

          Finance, social and tech founder. Co-founder of a global, gamified, crowd-sourced ESG advertising platform, and managing director of new crowd sourced games, both in pre-release development. My planet-wide talk show for people craving new stories by which to live is Casual Saints.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2172589 Reply
        zero2dash
        AskWoody Lounger

        Not excusing the behavior, but…
        This is exactly why they rely on the telemetry data that users are so paranoid to opt out of.
        Testing a patch vs a million hardware and software configurations is not something any company can do.

        Again, not excusing the behavior, just trying to put some reason and sense behind the practice.

        6 users thanked author for this post.
        • #2172630 Reply
          Carl
          AskWoody Plus

          And that telemetry data is available only AFTER the damage is done.

          • #2172709 Reply
            zero2dash
            AskWoody Lounger

            Agreed, but it should theoretically/hypothetically prevent other users with a similar hardware/software combination from getting nailed with a bad update. (Or so I hope.)

        • #2172866 Reply
          gkarasik
          AskWoody Lounger

          Not excusing the behavior, but…
          This is exactly why they rely on the telemetry data that users are so paranoid to opt out of.
          Testing a patch vs a million hardware and software configurations is not something any company can do.

          Again, not excusing the behavior, just trying to put some reason and sense behind the practice.

          This is true if you think quality testing must cover millions of computers and find/fix every conceivable error. But it doesn’t, and no one expects it to do that. People do have a right to expect a reasonable amount of testing on the majority of configurations, and they have a right to expect that an update won’t trash their clients businesses. Not every client has the resources to have sandbox systems. The perfect is the enemy of the good, but the current Microsoft isn’t even producing good.

          GaryK

      • #2172599 Reply
        b
        AskWoody Plus

        To date, we haven’t seen application compatibility issues with this approach.

        That speaks volumes, methinks.

        I’m sure we live in a parallel universe.

        What was the last application compatibility issue you saw in the real world?

        • #2172617 Reply
          woody
          Da Boss

          Both of the major bugs in this month’s Cumulative Update.

          • #2172635 Reply
            b
            AskWoody Plus

            Which applications are affected?

          • #2172649 Reply
            bbearren
            AskWoody MVP

            Both of the major bugs in this month’s Cumulative Update.

            What percentage of the installed base indicates “major” bug?

            In my view, a minor bug affects some users, while a major bug affects most users, and by “most” I mean more than 51%.

            Create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates, in case you need to start over!
            "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns
            "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware

            1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #2172712 Reply
              zero2dash
              AskWoody Lounger

              Excellent points, I agree.
              I think that’s one of the issues with people reporting an issue with Win10.
              You have a billion installs at this point, and mathematically in order to have something truly be “widespread”, you’re talking about millions (or tens of millions) of users. Problem is, the evidence just isn’t there.

              I know the jargon is easy to use, but it’s just not correct in this sense.

            • #2172808 Reply
              anonymous
              Guest

              “Major” isn’t the same as “widespread”. A “widespread” bug is one that affects a sizable percentage of the userbase. A “major” bug is a big oopsies that does serious, unwanted, or startling damage. Having an update cause your system to fail to boot into your proper profile is what I’d consider a “major” bug; it’s going to give end-users a panicked heart attack when they see it.

              2 users thanked author for this post.
            • #2174372 Reply
              Ascaris
              AskWoody_MVP

              In my view, a minor bug affects some users, while a major bug affects most users, and by “most” I mean more than 51%.

              I would say a major bug is any that has substantial negative impact when it manifests, regardless of how many people are affected.  If a bug wipes out your user folder, it’s a major bug, even if you’re the only one who ever saw it.  A bug can be both major and rare, by this definition.

              Group "L" (KDE Neon Linux 5.20.3 User Edition)

      • #2172605 Reply
        geekdom
        AskWoody Plus

        Regarding this matter, we have reached the age of “It’s your misfortune and none of my own.”

        • Backup your files.
        • Backup your system.
        • Create a restore point.
        • Apply update.
        • Check afterward to see that files, folders, and software are intact.

        We are all beta testers.

        G{ot backup} BetaTest
        offline▸ Win10Pro 2004.19041.572 x64 i3-3220 RAM8GB HDD Firefox83.0b3 WindowsDefender TRV=1909 WUMgr
        online▸ Win10Pro 2004.19041.630 x64 i5-9400 RAM16GB HDD Firefox84.0b4 WindowsDefender TRV=2004 WUMgr
        • This reply was modified 8 months, 4 weeks ago by geekdom.
        3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2172624 Reply
        Carl
        AskWoody Plus

        This is sad, just sad.

        Suppose a non computer nerd, small business user has auto updates enabled, is on the road and about to make a presentation only to discover that his/her laptop applied an update while having breakfast and now the needed presentation application has compatibility isses and crashes.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2173182 Reply
        WildChild
        AskWoody Plus

        Pretty amazing that MSFT would not have caught any of the issues with the software updates even if they had tested them.  Boy, that is REAL Quality control, … me thinks not.  I just hope Boeing does not implement MSFT’s strategy to save money. ….or did they:)

      • #2173211 Reply
        Alex5723
        AskWoody Plus

        I just hope Boeing does not implement MSFT’s strategy to save money. ….or did they:)

        Boeing doesn’t have to implement Microsoft’s strategy, it’s enough that they use Windows OS and patches.

      • #2173454 Reply

        Truly appalling, but then I spent some time in QA/QC working with Defense Contract Administration Service (DCAS) in ancient times, and my standards might be a bit higher…but to me, this is awful.

        Well, they might have saved enough money to upgrade the Cricket Court…

        https://www.geekwire.com/2017/heres-microsoft-building-cricket-field-middle-redeveloped-campus/

        I mean, they have to have their priorities in order, right?

        Chin-Chin!

        Win7 Pro SP1 64-bit ESU, Dell Latitude E6330, Intel CORE i5 "Ivy Bridge", Group "Patch List", Multiple Air-Gapped backup drives in different locations, "Don't auto-check for updates-Full Manual Mode." Linux Mint Greenhorn
        --
        "A committee is the only known form of life that has at least four legs and no brain."

        -Robert Heinlein

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