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  • Good news: It looks like the next version of Win10 1903 will be a Service Pack

    Home Forums AskWoody blog Good news: It looks like the next version of Win10 1903 will be a Service Pack

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    This topic contains 33 replies, has 18 voices, and was last updated by  abbodi86 1 month, 1 week ago.

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    • #1864815 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      A rose by any other name…. At this point, it looks like Win10 version 1909 will just be Win10 version 1903 SP1. There’s an enormous about of gobbled
      [See the full post at: Good news: It looks like the next version of Win10 1903 will be a Service Pack]

      4 users thanked author for this post.
    • #1864840 Reply

      EP
      AskWoody_MVP

      woody, look at the screenshot of 19H2 build 18362.10000 in this Ten forums topic:

      https://www.tenforums.com/windows-10-news/135857-new-windows-10-insider-preview-slow-build-18362-10000-19h2-july-1-a.html#post1664844

      it says 1903, not 1909.

      • #1865207 Reply

        abbodi86
        AskWoody_MVP

        All 20H1 insider preview builds also still says version 1903

        they only change that number when the final build/bits are close to be ready

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #1864937 Reply

      Alex5723
      AskWoody Plus

      Martin Brinkmann at gHacks has some info :

      John Cable, Director of Program Management, Windows Servicing and Delivery.

      He writes:

      The next feature update for Windows 10 (known in the Windows Insider Program as 19H2) will be a scoped set of features for select performance improvements, enterprise features and quality enhancements. To deliver these updates in a less disruptive fashion, we will deliver this feature update in a new way, using servicing technology (like the monthly update process) for customers running the May 2019 Update who choose to update to the new release. In other words, anyone running the May 2019 Update and updating to the new release will have a far faster update experience because the update will install like a monthly update.

      https://www.ghacks.net/2019/07/02/microsoft-unveils-its-plans-for-windows-10-19h2/

      So, the caveat, we won’t be able to defer 1909 for a year or months, and no ‘download and install’ ,only for up to 35 days, which isn’t enough time for testing.

      • #1865208 Reply

        abbodi86
        AskWoody_MVP

        It will be offered and behave like the feature update (1903 already started offering normal non-security cumulative update in the same manner)

        defering feature update will make this go away, so it works

        4 users thanked author for this post.
    • #1865239 Reply

      PKCano
      Da Boss

      It would seem, then, that the Feature Update deferral is not coming back, since there are no longer any “Feature” updates as such, and all the changes that would have been rolled into a  “Feature” update are being served incrementally .

      It would seem that there is no use for a “Quality” deferral either, since you can pause for up to 35 days (Quality deferral was only 30 days anyway). So “Quality” deferral is probably not coming back either.

      It would seem also, that the non-Security “Preview” CUs will be served through “download and install now” instead of having to download from the Catalog and manually install.

      So it would seem what really happened here is Microsoft slyly, quietly, without a word of notice or explanation, took away all the ability to control upgrades and is actually forcing those upgrades on the User in pieces. And when the time runs out on v.1809 next year, basically everyone will be on the same version of Win10 (except LTSB/LTSC). That is probably why MS is skipping v.1809 and pushing everyone to v.1903, to accelerate this conversion.

      And how many of you trusted Microsoft to give you some choice …….

      4 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1865311 Reply

        abbodi86
        AskWoody_MVP

        20H1 will be different build, true feature update, so the deferral will not go away

        but for sure, there is something fishy going on

        4 users thanked author for this post.
        • #1865361 Reply

          PKCano
          Da Boss

          I realize Ent/Edu and businesses with Pro will require some type of deferral.
          Deferrals will be available in the Registry and Group Policy settings. But I’m guessing the pulldowns in the Settings app GUI are history. And that leaves out the Home Edition, the general User with Pro and even some of the techie types.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #1865390 Reply

            woody
            Da Boss

            Many questions and, to date, not many answers.

            1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #1865444 Reply

        WildBill
        AskWoody Plus

        From @pkcano:

        So it would seem what really happened here is Microsoft slyly, quietly, without a word of notice or explanation, took away all the ability to control upgrades and is actually forcing those upgrades on the User in pieces. And when the time runs out on v.1809 next year, basically everyone will be on the same version of Win10 (except LTSB/LTSC). That is probably why MS is skipping v.1809 and pushing everyone to v.1903, to accelerate this conversion.

        And how many of you trusted Microsoft to give you some choice …….

        Sadly, I was going to trust M$. The ability to pause Win 10 1903 Home for up to 35 days, as well as some new features, including access & control to the Clipboard & even emojis & dark mode (“Night light settings”) was luring me to finally upgrade my Win8.1 laptop to Win10, starting with 1903 when it was declared “Safe for Business”. But now, Win 10 1909 AKA Service Pack will supposedly install like a regular Cumulative Update. I’m really Confused…

        1. When will 1903 be declared “Safe for Business”, since it’s Not Ready For Primetime now?
        2. Would I have to upgrade to 1903 1st in order to install 1909 AKA 1903 Service Pack?

        I know Win10 will never be free of bugs… any version of Windows never has been. AskWoody & MS-DEFCON will continue to give us some control, but is M$ & Win10 finally approaching some stability? Or should I say <bleep> Off & convert to Linux before Win8.1 reaches End of Life in 2023?!

        Windows 8.1, 64-bit, now in Group B!
        Wild Bill Rides Again...

        • #1865510 Reply

          Alex5723
          AskWoody Plus

          Would I have to upgrade to 1903 1st in order to install 1909 AKA 1903 Service Pack?

          Yes, if you want 1909 as CU.
          No, if you want to upgrade from previous Windows 10 (1809…), than you will get the full 1909 feature update.

          2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #1865543 Reply

            WildBill
            AskWoody Plus

            But since I’m on Win8.1 & if I want the “Service Pack”, would I upgrade from Win8.1 to Win10 1909?

            Windows 8.1, 64-bit, now in Group B!
            Wild Bill Rides Again...

            • #1865562 Reply

              Alex5723
              AskWoody Plus

              But since I’m on Win8.1 & if I want the “Service Pack”, would I upgrade from Win8.1 to Win10 1909?

              Yes, just like any other full upgrade, either using ISO, using Microsoft Windows 10 Media Creation Tool… clean install or upgrade, your choice.

              1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #1865644 Reply

              Tex265
              AskWoody Plus

              if I want the “Service Pack”, would I upgrade from Win8.1 to Win10 1909?

              Clarifing terminology here, as I understand this from reading other sites and gHacks, it you want 1909 as a “Service Pack” update you need to have 1903 already installed. If you want 1909 as a full Feature upgrade then you would bypass 1903 and install 1909 from scratch when it becomes available (some sites are saying September 2019).

              Windows 10 Pro x64 v1803 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64
              2 users thanked author for this post.
            • #1866236 Reply

              abbodi86
              AskWoody_MVP

              1909 will be always 1903 + CU
              it will not be real separate new build, just a refreshed 1903 ISO/ESD

              1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #1866416 Reply

              WildBill
              AskWoody Plus

              So if I didn’t want to be “bit” by problems in 1903 & wanted the “Service Pack” version when it came out, would I download 1909 as an ISO & use it to upgrade from Win8.1? Or would I have to download 1903 when it’s “ready for business”, upgrade from Win8.1, then install the CU when it appears to be on 1909?! Man, I’m sooo confused already & I’m still on 8.1!

              Windows 8.1, 64-bit, now in Group B!
              Wild Bill Rides Again...

            • #1866464 Reply

              abbodi86
              AskWoody_MVP

              Yes, 1909 will be availabe directly as ISO

              1903 is already pushed for all, per se

              2 users thanked author for this post.
            • #1866773 Reply

              Tex265
              AskWoody Plus

              From gHacks.net

              Windows 10 19H2 will be delivered using new technology that is less disruptive. It will install like a monthly cumulative update for Windows 10 and not a feature update, and that should speed up the updating significantly. Microsoft seems to focus development on smaller changes and improvements, and revealed that it aims for a September 2019 release.

              Nothing changes for devices running earlier versions of Windows 10;
              updates from these versions directly to Windows 10 19H2 will take longer as it is just another feature update installation.

              Windows 10 Pro x64 v1803 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64
              1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #1865354 Reply

      Microfix
      Da Boss

      I’d certainly feel more reassured if MSFT changed W10 ‘feature updates’ or ‘service packs’ to every twelve months with a view to allocating MORE time to getting it right first time.

      ********** Win7 x64/x86 | Win8.1 x64 | Linux Hybrids x64 **********

    • #1865368 Reply

      GreatAndPowerfulTech
      AskWoody Lounger

      I installed build 18362.10000 last night, on my four year old ThinkPad, not on our shops bench machines. It was very fast and painless, much more so than a true “feature update”. If it “falls apart”, I’ll post it here.

      GreatAndPowerfulTech

    • #1865396 Reply

      MrJimPhelps
      AskWoody_MVP

      First it was “the next version of Windows”. Then it was “the next version of Windows 10”. Now it’s “the next version of Windows 10 1903”.

      I imagine after that we’ll see “the next version of Windows 10 1903 SP1”.

      At least they are (hopefully) slowing things down to one upgrade per year.

      Group "L" (Linux Mint)
      with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
      • #1865459 Reply

        b
        AskWoody Plus

        Now it’s “the next version of Windows 10 1903”.

        Only Woody calls it that. No one else.

        Knuckle dragger Cannon fodder Chump Daft glutton Idiot Crazy/Ignorant Toxic drinker Blockhead Unwashed mass Seeker/Sucker "Ancient/Obsolete" (Group ASAP) Win10 v.1903

        2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #1865397 Reply

      geekdom
      AskWoody Plus

      Could someone please provide the make, model, and reliability of all active Windows 10 versions?

      Group G{ot backup} TestBeta
      Win7Pro·x64·SP1·i3-3220·HDD·Microsoft Security Essentials·Windows Backup·Windows System Image·Windows Rescue Disk·Windows Firewall
      • #1865443 Reply

        jabeattyauditor
        AskWoody Lounger

        Could someone please provide the make, model, and reliability of all active Windows 10 versions?

        I compiled a script to generate the report you requested, but I’ve run out of space in my 16TB temporary table. I’ll respond with the requested data as soon as we complete a hardware refresh and have the necessary computing power on-hand.

        Thanks for your patience and cooperation.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #1865452 Reply

      AlexEiffel
      AskWoody_MVP

      “although I would argue it did a good job with the first release of Windows 7”

      One could argue Windows 7 was close to a service pack for Vista.

      Vista was much different than XP, but Windows 7 was much less different than Vista. There was some polishing and some improvements done under the hood like tuning some services and adding ASLR, plus the addition of a Mac style launcher I hate on the GUI side, but it seemed like for the most part, it looked more like a polished Vista than anything.

      When you think about it, there was maybe the Windows 95 era culminating with Windows 98SE, then the Windows 2000-XP era started from NT though not on the home user side, then the Vista and 7 period. 8.1 might be seen as a bridge to the never quite polished 10.

      So, Microsoft was pretty good at providing an OS people loved when they reached the polished stage, and that generally took a very long time. It seems that an OS is way too complex to expect it to be better than the previous versions when there are too many changes, until it reach a much higher level of maturity.

      Linux distros seems to suffer from the same fate when they introduce too much novelty and associated regressions. That is why it is so important to have the ability to use a LTS version and not just for big businesses. SMBs and home users that care more for stability need an OS too.

      It took a long time for Microsoft to lightly alter the two versions a year cycle. I don’t understand what wishful thinking kept them from seeing the obvious and what they still don’t get about what an OS should be. I am happy that they see it might be better to slow down trying to sell features nobody asked for like Paint3D, Desktop Cortana, forced Web searches, changing the GUI and adding other annoying privacy invading “features” to focus on the fundamentals a bit more, but we are still far from having OS peace of mind.

      Omitting the technical aspects of how a SP installs vs an upgrade, one could also argue that each version of 10 is more like a service pack to the previous one since there are much less changes than between previous versions of Windows. So, if it is harder for Microsoft to get it right than before, maybe it just shows how they got it wrong with their new QA approach and that, regardless of the upgrade path chosen, service pack or not, will remain a problem if it is not properly addressed. Yes, it helps to slow down the pace of changes, but that doesn’t mean there is not still something fundamentally wrong to fix.

       

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #1865484 Reply

        GreatAndPowerfulTech
        AskWoody Lounger

        “although I would argue it did a good job with the first release of Windows 7” One could argue Windows 7 was close to a service pack for Vista.

        Fun fact, the early development versions of Windows 7 were internally referred to as Vista Second Edition. That went away quickly when Vista turned out to be scorned by much of the public.

        GreatAndPowerfulTech

        3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #1865985 Reply

      anonymous

      Soooo…. Would Microsoft be so kind to give 1803 Pro users on the Semi Annual Channel with 365 days of delays set of  some extra time so they can install 1903 + its servive pack in October or so? Or will we all be pushed over soon? The signs look bad with warnings in the update panel appearing since last week though… :-/

      • #1867046 Reply

        Alex5723
        AskWoody Plus

        Soooo…. Would Microsoft be so kind to give 1803 Pro users on the Semi Annual Channel with 365 days of delays set of  some extra time so they can install 1903 + its servive pack in October or so? Or will we all be pushed over soon? The signs look bad with warnings in the update panel appearing since last week though… :-/

        You will be pushed unless you upgrade now to 1809.

    • #1867313 Reply

      anonymous

      it will not be a Service Pack, it will be just a new Cumulative Update as any other.

    • #1870010 Reply

      EP
      AskWoody_MVP

      hey woody.

      Paul Thurrott has wrote a recent article a few days ago that questions Microsoft’s “commitment to transparency” [Premium users can access the full article on his web site]
      https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/209629/microsoft-transparency-and-you

      a good read – it’s something in the way MS communicated their plans about 19H2

      • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by  EP.
    • #1870130 Reply

      MidwestMark
      AskWoody Lounger

      I moved my 3 machines to 1903, no regrets here.

      I wanted the features- iCloud from the MS Store (removes one more dedicated piece of update software off my machine), enhanced Ryzen scheduler support, and retpoline for my Intel systems. The only issue I’ve experienced is the broken Night Light, which I’m eagerly waiting for the patch / quality update. Not a huge deal. Overall my machines run better than on 1803.

      I will be moving to 1909 and skipping 2003 in favor of 2009, sticking with that cadence (260 day feature deferral, 14 day quality deferral). Unless they have some must-have enhancements in 2003, as they did with 1903. Ironically enough, I’ve had the best luck with the 1H releases since Windows 10 launched, rather than 2H. 1703, 1803 were great. 1709 was problematic for me, and 1809 is infamous. That’s probably about to change as 2H becomes the ‘enterprise edition’.

      • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by  MidwestMark.
    • #1870389 Reply

      John
      AskWoody Lounger

      This long into Windows 10 I would expect big upgrades to slow. Microsoft has already lost users in creating much excitement for feature upgrades. Pretty much a ho hum sort of event that has happened twice a year. Will be a welcome relief if the Fall release is more a service pack then a new release.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #1871651 Reply

      Sueska
      AskWoody Plus

      I guess time will tell, but my vision for post Win 10 1903 is to have a final ~ 6 month cumulative update which would be a requirement to move forward. Then start over with the a new update and resume with cumulative updates from that point on. I think this should be easy for Microsoft to implement. Just wish Microsoft would chill on the every 6 month features updates. It’s like getting a new pair of glasses every 6 months. Even my opthamologist recommends that once a year is too frequent for new glasses since my eyes takes a long time to adjust.

      • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by  Sueska. Reason: add sentence
    • #1875463 Reply

      abbodi86
      AskWoody_MVP

      18362.10005 released

    Please follow the -Lounge Rules- no personal attacks, no swearing, and politics/religion are relegated to the Rants forum.

    Reply To: Good news: It looks like the next version of Win10 1903 will be a Service Pack

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