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  • Guide for Windows users who are thinking about switching to a Mac

    Home Forums AskWoody blog Guide for Windows users who are thinking about switching to a Mac

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      • #2170715 Reply
        woody
        Da Boss

        Nathan Parker has just published an enormous, fact-filled guide to making the switch from Windows to Mac. With @PKCano wielding the editorial sword, I
        [See the full post at: Guide for Windows users who are thinking about switching to a Mac]

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      • #2170716 Reply
        agoldhammer
        AskWoody Plus

        The problem is that one can always get more hardware for the money with a PC than a Mac, particularly if one builds their own workstation.  Apple also does a lot of weird things with new system updates and I read many reports from photographers who encounter problems.  As with Win users they often delay system updates for several months until the bugs are worked out.

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      • #2170717 Reply
        b
        AskWoody Plus

        With Apple now claiming the “snooping” high ground (your opinion may vary, of course), I think it’s important for Windows owners to consider the Apple option.

        I must have missed that. Where and when did Apple claim the “snooping” high ground?

        Windows 10 Pro Version 2004: Group ASAP (chump/pioneer)

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        • #2170727 Reply
          woody
          Da Boss

          https://www.apple.com/privacy/

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          • #2170739 Reply
            b
            AskWoody Plus

            https://www.apple.com/privacy/

            I thought you would be talking about a recent announcement, or at least somewhere that actually made a comparative claim of some description.

            Not really seeing the “high ground” there:

            What personal information we collect
            When you create an Apple ID, apply for commercial credit, purchase a product, download a software update, register for a class at an Apple Retail Store, connect to our services, contact us including by social media or participate in an online survey, we may collect a variety of information, including your name, mailing address, phone number, email address, contact preferences, device identifiers, IP address, location information, credit card information and profile information where the contact is via social media.

            We also use personal information to help us create, develop, operate, deliver, and improve our products, services, content and advertising, and for loss prevention and anti-fraud purposes.

            We may collect information such as occupation, language, zip code, area code, unique device identifier, referrer URL, location, and the time zone where an Apple product is used so that we can better understand customer behavior and improve our products, services, and advertising.

            Windows 10 Pro Version 2004: Group ASAP (chump/pioneer)

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          • #2170962 Reply
            Ascaris
            AskWoody_MVP

            Mark Zuckerberg climbed onto a stage and claimed that the “future is private.” That would be a somewhat difficult statement to defend under the best of circumstances for anyone with average or better observation skills, but from an individual who became rich by leading the charge to destroy the very concept of privacy for an entire generation of young people, that’s a bit hard to swallow.

            Claims are easy… I want to see action.

            Still, I do think that of the major players in the OS market, Apple ends up inheriting the privacy trophy, not necessarily because they’ve decided to be the most private choice among the others, but because they are the only one left who hasn’t abandoned the very idea.

            It used to be that Google was the one that violated your privacy while the others (MS and Apple) didn’t, but it became apparent during Microsoft’s “scroogled” campaign that people just didn’t care.  Android rose to be the #1 consumer OS worldwide, and Chrome the #1 browser, during the time that everyone knew what Google was all about.  Still, we see headlines like “survey finds that Americans trust Google more than Microsoft or Apple on privacy.” How is that even possible?  I don’t like what MS is doing these days, obviously, but compared to Google, they’re angels, at least in terms of privacy.

            What’s the point of doing the right thing if no one even notices, let alone cares?  I think that was the message MS took from the failure of “scroogled.”  I’d like to think they’d act on principle alone, doing the right thing even when no one’s looking and cheering at them for doing it, but let’s be real here.  If there’s no money in being ethical, they’re not going to be.

            It will be interesting to see how Apple plays this… MS tried it and gave up on it, and if Apple ends up being less trusted than Google despite everything, I’d be surprised if they didn’t reach the same conclusion.  I’m not talking about corporate ethics in general; Apple gets a big F on their report card from me overall, not that they particularly care.  I’m just talking about privacy here, and for the time being, my perception is that Apple is the least bad of the big three OS vendors.  For now.

            Group "L" (KDE Neon User Edition 5.18.3).

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        • #2170728 Reply
          anonymous
          Guest

          Their recent media releases have talked about valuing end-user privacy etc.  That doesn’t make them better (probably more damage control for the 2014 iCloud hack than anything), but at least they say they’re better.

      • #2170736 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        High ground meaning moral high ground, Apple claiming they are more moral regarding snooping.

        Several of the recent iphone commercials focus on privacy.  One says your data should belong to you.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Py0acqg1oKc  In some high profile cases Apple has refused to help the government unlock phones.  Safari has blocked third party cookies since before 2017, where Chrome will not fully block them until 2022.

        Perhaps Apple should be praised for admitting this, but despite these commercials, it seems that Apple has handed user data to governments well over 10,000 times per year.  https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/apples-latest-transparency-report-shows-jump-in-national-security-requests.2073496/  Third party apps, perhaps ones in violation of Apples policies, have also collected and resold user location data on both iphone and Android.

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        • #2170752 Reply
          b
          AskWoody Plus

          Several of the recent iphone commercials focus on privacy.  One says your data should belong to you.

          Microsoft agrees:

          The default position had to be that people owned their own data, he said.
          Privacy is a human right, we need a GDPR for the world: Microsoft CEO

          Windows 10 Pro Version 2004: Group ASAP (chump/pioneer)

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          • #2171324 Reply
            Noel Carboni
            AskWoody_MVP

            Microsoft agrees:

            The default position had to be that people owned their own data, he said.
            Privacy is a human right, we need a GDPR for the world: Microsoft CEO

            That strikes me as… Well, I don’t know what to call it.

            Is Microsoft saying, there, that unless compelled by strict law they simply must continue profiting from tracking people and analyzing their data? Presumably because if they didn’t, huge profits would be lost?

            -Noel

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            • #2171341 Reply
              b
              AskWoody Plus

              Microsoft agrees:

              The default position had to be that people owned their own data, he said.
              Privacy is a human right, we need a GDPR for the world: Microsoft CEO

              That strikes me as… Well, I don’t know what to call it.

              Is Microsoft saying, there, that unless compelled by strict law they simply must continue profiting from tracking people and analyzing their data? Presumably because if they didn’t, huge profits would be lost?

              -Noel

              No; he said the world needs a GDPR, not that Microsoft does:

              “My own point of view is that it’s a fantastic start in treating privacy as a human right. I hope that in the United States we do something similar, and that the world converges on a common standard.”
              Privacy is a human right, we need a GDPR for the world: Microsoft CEO

              Microsoft already committed to applying the EU’s GDPR worldwide nearly two years ago:

              NEW YORK (AP) — Microsoft promised Monday [5/21/2018] to give users worldwide the same data and privacy rights Europeans will get under new regulations there. That’s in contrast to some of its tech rivals, who are hedging on how much privacy protections will change for Americans and other non-Europeans.
              Microsoft pledges to extend EU data rights worldwide

              And to apply California’s CCPA for the entire US three months ago:

              In a surprising announcement, Microsoft said in a blog post today [11/11/2019] that it would apply California’s upcoming strict privacy legislation to all its US users, and not just Californians.
              The California Consumer Privacy Act, or CCPA, is currently set to go into effect on January 1, 2020. The upcoming law is considered one of the most restrictive privacy legislations in the world.
              Microsoft to apply California’s privacy law for all US users

              Windows 10 Pro Version 2004: Group ASAP (chump/pioneer)

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              • #2171425 Reply
                woody
                Da Boss

                That certainly seems to be the direction from the top.

                Let’s see how it works out.

              • #2171558 Reply
                AlexEiffel
                AskWoody_MVP

                Which would lead me to the conclusion that Nadella might have a lot of the right vision, but it is in the execution that he fails miserably.

                Microsoft is riddled with incoherence everywhere. While he is talking about privacy being so important, they were busy breaking local search by sneakingly adding online things to Bing. Why would you also disable the ability to ignore web searches, forced telemetry, etc.?

                I don’t have a problem with telemetry per se, but I do require the right to not join the program if I don’t trust the entity doing it enough or I don’t understand well enough what they are storing exactly. A company that cares about privacy won’t force you to run data gathering services like this.

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              • #2171584 Reply
                Ascaris
                AskWoody_MVP

                Which would lead me to the conclusion that Nadella might have a lot of the right vision, but it is in the execution that he fails miserably. Microsoft is riddled with incoherence everywhere. While he is talking about privacy being so important, they were busy breaking local search by sneakingly adding online things to Bing.

                He also once said that he wanted to make Windows 10 the most loved version of Windows ever.  If MS wanted to make a version of Windows “loved,” they already had a perfect blueprint to follow… or two of them, more accurately, as they had already created the much beloved Windows XP and Windows 7.

                If for any reason Nadella somehow actually believed that forcing largely untested updates, telemetry, a half phone/half PC interface, ads, unwanted app downloads, etc., on people was actually going to make them “love” the product, the feedback over the last four and a half years has certainly been adequate to convince him otherwise.  Regardless, it’s been full speed ahead the whole time.

                Like the Zuckerburg “future is private” thing I mentioned before, it’s easy to make claims.  Put another way, talk is cheap.  What matters is not what a CEO claims, but what the company actually does.  I want to see Facebook start legitimately respecting privacy.  I want to see Microsoft legitimately making Windows 10 something that I would love to use.  Don’t just try to gaslight the public, claim you believe one thing when the company you head is clearly doing the polar opposite.

                Group "L" (KDE Neon User Edition 5.18.3).

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              • #2171750 Reply
                AlexEiffel
                AskWoody_MVP

                I had the same thought as you in my previous post and started writing everything they should have done to make Windows up to the claim he made about it being the most loved ever, but I ended up loosing patience and deleting the whole paragraph.

                I think there is some good intention there, using the insider program (in theory), adding stuff for power users, win-x, improvements to command prompt, notepad to support linux end of lines, even the attempt to move Windows into a more modern secure platform with containers or a mode where you could put better restrictions in a standardized enterprise environment, but again, the execution is failing. They do all kind of things that will make power users mad and they violate so many unwritten rules about consent, privacy, ads, user choice like the latest Bing search add-on that was supposed to be installed by Office that it is hard to believe they can achieve the vision they promised about it being the most loved version.

                I wonder how aware Nadella is of all this after all those years. Does this information gets filtered before it reaches him, is he naive and believes that Windows should really be like this and rapid rolling is so great or is he as evil as you seem to portray him?

                One thing for sure, is it seems there are a lot of bad incentives for people working there at many levels to monetize the platform and the ecosystem as much as they can get away with it. It seems like bad performance measurement and incentives side-effects are at work.

                • This reply was modified 1 month ago by AlexEiffel.
              • #2171835 Reply
                OscarCP
                AskWoody Plus

                Ascaris writes: ( #2171584 ) “I wonder how aware Nadella is of all this after all those years. Does this information gets filtered before it reaches him, is he naive and believes that Windows should really be like this and rapid rolling is so great or is he as evil as you seem to portray him?

                And I wonder if Nadella even uses Windows these days, unlike his predecessor Bill Gates, who could tell what was wrong by finding out the hard way, same as the rest of us. But had the ultimate power to order what was to be done about it by the developers. As, presumably, still does Nadella.

                As to Apple, from my own limited experience, their corporate tone-deafness seems to be primarily in the ever more “streamlined” and functionally less versatile and less regular-user friendly design of the hardware. As to the software, I don’t have anything to say one way or anther, at least for now.

                Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group W (ex B) & macOS + Linux (Mint)

              • #2171878 Reply
                Ascaris
                AskWoody_MVP

                Ascaris writes: ( #2171584 ) “I wonder how aware Nadella is of all this after all those years. Does this information gets filtered before it reaches him, is he naive and believes that Windows should really be like this and rapid rolling is so great or is he as evil as you seem to portray him?”

                I didn’t write that. That quote was written by AlexEiffel in response to me.

                I don’t really know if Nadella is naive or nefarious, but either way, he’s the guy at the top, and that makes him ultimately responsible for what the company does on his watch.  I find the effects of Windows 10 to be an evil; that doesn’t necessarily imply evil intent on Nadella’s part, but something is happening on Nadella’s watch to permit the situation we now have.  Being naive and unaware of the reality of what his company is doing would be an evil too, even if not by intent.  MS is tremendously profitable right now, and he’s receiving praise (and giving it to himself too, as in his book), so it’s probably pretty easy to forget about the “little people” at the bottom, or to convince oneself that their concerns are trivial.  Whatever the case, the words don’t match the product, and no one has more power to tailor the product to the words than Nadella.

                Group "L" (KDE Neon User Edition 5.18.3).

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              • #2171881 Reply
                OscarCP
                AskWoody Plus

                Well, my sincere apologies to AlexEiffel. That was an odd mistake. I’ve had a look, just now, to where that quote was, and  I think I might see how that happened: Ascaris usually writes fairly long comments, and scrolling quickly down his I could have missed the border where his comment ended and Alex’s begun. But it still is an odd thing to happen.

                Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group W (ex B) & macOS + Linux (Mint)

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              • #2175114 Reply
                anonymous
                Guest

                The bulk of Microsoft’s profits are coming from their cloud computing services, so less and less attention is being paid to Windows. Windows propelled Microsoft to success, but they don’t think Windows will keep them there. Windows is now just another platform you can use to access Microsoft’s cloud services – in fact, the best platform, but they’ve also happily allowed Android, iOS, and macOS users to join in as well.

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      • #2170789 Reply

        The problem is that one can always get more hardware for the money with a PC than a Mac, particularly if one builds their own workstation.

        Yeah, that’s pretty much the thing that stopped me. I needed a workstation that could do 2D and 3D CG, as well as animation, etc. I knew that the software would run on a PC OR Mac, but the price difference was enormous at the time. I’d built my last three PC’s, and the last (4th) I specified the components, and had a shop build it for me; that way I got a year’s warranty. (It’s getting harder to find “custom shops” these days.)

        And I only had to take it back twice! 🙂 (I know, I can be positively Teutonic when it comes to getting something spot-on. Auto mechanics hate me. [The 3 ways: The Right way, the Wrong way, and the Mil-Spec way…])

        I get asked sometimes, “Should I buy a Mac or PC?” I ask them if they come from or work in a techie environment. If Yes, I tell them a PC. If No, I tell them to get a Mac.

        The second question is “Can you afford the Mac?”

        Don’t get me wrong…Macs are great, but you’re going to pay more, sometimes a lot more depending on what you want it to do.

        YMMV!

        Win7 Pro SP1 64-bit, Dell Latitude E6330, Intel CORE i5 "Ivy Bridge", Group "Wait for the all-clear", Multiple Air-Gapped backup drives in different locations, "Don't check for updates-Full Manual Mode. ESU 1 yr."
        --
        "Just because you're an engineer doesn't mean you're good at everything." -Anonymous

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      • #2170794 Reply
        bbearren
        AskWoody MVP

        Nathan Parker has just published an enormous, fact-filled guide to making the switch from Windows to Mac. … I think it’s important for Windows owners to consider the Apple option. And for those who need to buy a new PC because Windows 7 is going kaput, you should certainly think about going over to the citrus side of the fence.

        As a native Floridian, I consider it my duty to inform you (from Wikipedia): “The orange is the fruit of the citrus species Citrus × sinensis in the family Rutaceae, native to China.”

        “The tangerine (Citrus reticula L. var., sometimes referred as Citrus tangerina) is a group of orange-colored citrus fruit consisting of hybrids of mandarin orange.”

        “The grapefruit (Citrus × paradisi) is a subtropical citrus tree known for its relatively large sour to semi-sweet, somewhat bitter fruit.”

        An apple is a sweet, edible fruit produced by an apple tree (Malus domestica).

        An apple is a fruit, citrus it ain’t.

        Create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates, in case you need to start over!
        "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns
        "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware

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        • #2170853 Reply
          woody
          Da Boss

          I stand very much corrected.

          And humbled. 🙂

          3 users thanked author for this post.
          • #2171321 Reply
            Noel Carboni
            AskWoody_MVP

            As different as Apples and Oranges, or maybe macOS and Windows.

            -Noel

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            • #2175044 Reply
              rc primak
              AskWoody_MVP

              And then there are Linux and ChromeOS, which don’t even represent themselves in terms of fruit.

              -- rc primak

              • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 5 days ago by rc primak.
      • #2170886 Reply
        warrenrumak
        AskWoody Plus

        It may be instructive to people who believe that Apple doesn’t “phone home”, to look at this script. which is called “Disable bunch of #$!@”.  It is much like O&O ShutUp10 in that it goes through your system and disables a ton of services and telemetry systems in macOS Catalina.

        https://gist.github.com/pwnsdx/1217727ca57de2dd2a372afdd7a0fc21

         

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        • #2171498 Reply
          Rick Corbett
          AskWoody_MVP

          It may be instructive to people who believe that Apple doesn’t “phone home”, to look at this script. which is called “Disable bunch of #$!@”. It is much like O&O ShutUp10 in that it goes through your system and disables a ton of services and telemetry systems in macOS Catalina.

          Did you read the comments about the problems this script introduces?

          Now try and find similar problems caused by O&O ShutUp10.

          Then compare ease-of-use between the two…

          IMO there is no comparison at all.

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      • #2170966 Reply
        Mele20
        AskWoody Lounger

        I have an iPhone and iwatch 6 both with full support which is not cheap with Apple and for a limited time (far more limited that the 4-5 year full support I can buy for my Dell Small Business computers). Apple Support is NOT even 24/7/365 as it is for Dell support. I was stunned to learn that I because of where I am, and my sleep pattern, there are just a handful of hours when I can reach Apple support. Had I known this, I would not have purchased anything from Apple (even though I realy like my iPhone 10r and don’t want an Android phone and Google spying).

        I get Enterprise Support from Dell so it contrasts greatly with the rinky dink ignorant support that Apple offers me for my two products. Plus, Apple lies about what their products can do and their support agents are so poorly trained that they almost had heart attacks when I have proved to them how pathetic the iWatch 6 is. To be fair, over the past 22 years, there have been a few times when Dell Small Business support sucked but I persevered and got treated right and then Dell eventually cleaned up their support.

        Apple has NO store on the island I live on and it is expensive to fly to Honolulu to an Apple store. In retrospect, I was not smart to buy Apple products when there is no Apple store here. As for an Apple desktop computer and monitor, that is extremely foolish to purchase here. Apple does not offer a support plan that is 24/7/365 with NEXT DAY in house repair for 4-5 years. If I had to mail a computer to Apple for repair it would be astronomically expensive and take forever and be a major headache to do. Now, if I lived on Oahu where there are two Apple stores, I could take it in but, again, why would I want to purchase a desktop computer that I would have to lugin to Apple store for repair when Dell sends a tech out immediately (and the one here is outstanding).

        What I have learned about Apple, since getting 2 Apple products, is that they are superb at marketing and fool everyone because they are so good at it. So, ff you live in a large city with an Apple store then if you have tons of money to spend then maybe Apple is for you but for everyone else ….stay away. Do not go with Dell Home either. Call a Dell Small Business salesperson after configuring what you think you want. They can get you a better price than what you see at Dell’s Small Business website. The iPhone doesn’t have a lot of problems and it is a good phone if Apple does not eventually FORCE 2Factor authentication on it as I think they will. I wish I had never gotten it because I am totally opposed to 2 Factor Authentication and I think whether I use it or not should be MY decision…not Apple’s. I would not have gotten the iPhone if I had known their plans regarding 2 Factor Authentication. It is MUCH WORSE than some of the stuff Microsoft tries to do to Windows users. Since they will soon force it on all holdouts, I bought the watch as there are way too many problems with Windows to risk Windows (or a landline phone that just broke suddenly when slightly over 1 year old) to complete authentication. But the watch is an utter joke ….a very expensive joke.

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        • #2170994 Reply
          Michael Austin
          AskWoody Plus

          Mele20 wrote: Post #2170966
          That’s very helpful. Thanks. I currently run my personal and biz things on a combination of a Windows desktop and laptop, and I’ve an iPhone in my pocket. In computing these days it seems to me to be mostly a matter of choosing to work with the devil you prefer rather than the devil whose work you don’t know as well.

          Dell and Microsoft? I remember the time, long ago, when I bought and brought on-line a former company’s Dell-made Windows server. It was that company’s first DHCP server. I’d migrated us from Novelle, and then to Windows 95 Peer-to-Peer, and then to DHCP over Windows Server. Hot-swappable drives, redundant power supplies. Because I was then new-ish to the network admin game, I bought five Dell server support incidents. I’d not been schooled in network admin but I was a quick study. When I found on the 1st Dell tech support call I knew more than the Dell tech, I cancelled their paid support and had them refund it.

          If I eventually end up migrating to an Apple desktop or laptop, I’d do it only with dual-boot, Windows/Mac OSs, and inside a virtualization sandbox. Just like politicians, I can tell that both Microsoft and Apple are lying through their teeth because I see their lips moving. One has to really dig into sometimes hidden facts about tech companies’ policies and publishing before you can truly assess what they’re actually doing. Of course there are great strategies to insulate myself from Apple’s or Microsoft’s feedlot runoff.

          Finance, social and tech founder. My new, planet-wide talk show, Casual Saints, is being readied for a March/April 2020 debut.

          • #2171050 Reply
            Paul T
            AskWoody MVP

            Michael, please quote small amounts rather than long posts.
            Highlight the bit you want to quote and press the quote button. If you want it to be a reply, click the reply button, then go back and highlight and quote.

            cheers, Paul

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      • #2170981 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        Well Apple’s got the Mac Pro 2019 edition and Dell and HP Graphics workstations can cost in the 6 figure range so even Apple’s higher end 50 to 60 grand offerings are not so bad and there are audio system professionals that are happy with that Mac Pro 2019 edition. If one is a professional in that market then that’s simply a tax write off over 5 years and really one has to take into consideration the increased productivity factored into the costs. And if one is paid by the job/contract then even 6 figures is not that much for the film/sound/TV industry folks that spend more than that for 8K/$80,000 Red cameras/others that cost even more.

        And I’m no big fan of Apple or Apple’s laptop pricing but it’s easy to get the bottom tier Mac Pro 2019 and upgrade that one’s self and save even more and just go and view the Linus Tech Tips(LTT) Videos on the Mac Pro 2019 edition. As far as ease of user access and that well thought out design Apple has really invested a lot in engineering a great solution and Apple has finally published a whitepaper(1) on the 2019 Mac Pro that’s actually useful not full of the usual marketing only focused material.

        This is definitely more of technical data sheet but that’s what the pro graphics workstation clients expect and receive from Dell and HP and really I do recommend LTT’s videos with Linus and his upgrading the Mac Pro and how easy that was and how Apple’s engineering really did impress there.

        Apple should have really made the Whitepaper available at the Mac Pro 2019’s release and there is that included AMD semi-custom for Apple Line of GPUs that like their Radeon Instinct relatives are interfaced GPU to GPU via AMD’s infinity Fabric that’s similar in scope to how Nvidia interfaces its Pro RTX Quadro GPUs via its NVLInk IP. And that’s much faster than any PCIe based inter-GPU based protocol/interfacing for both AMD’s Infinity Fabric and Nvidia’s NVLink competition.

        I would withhold judgment on any Mac Pro 2019 SKUs where normally I really avoid Apple’s overpriced for the processing power Macbook/Macbook Pro line of offerings but as far as Professional Graphics workstations that Mac Pro 2019 edition has more than made up for Apple’s previous Trash Can Mac Pro fiasco.

        (1)

        “Mac Pro Technology Overview February 2020”

        https://www.apple.com/mac-pro/pdf/Mac_Pro_White_Paper_Feb_2020.pdf

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        • #2171888 Reply
          OscarCP
          AskWoody Plus

          Macs are expensive, particularly at their high end, compared with many Windows PCs, but their prices are less of an issue when the machines are to be used as reliable workhorses by people that buy them to do some serious computing work using, developing, testing, modifying, updating and debugging software, particularly software to be developed, or already being used for processing large data sets and, in general, for running jobs involving some serious number-crunching. Those high-end Macs are tools for doing work that, one way or another, can be a source of income for the user. One should not be thrifty when buying the tools of one’s profession. Macs are certainly not the only computers suitable for that kind of work, but they are used by quite a few that do it.

          Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group W (ex B) & macOS + Linux (Mint)

      • #2171259 Reply
        John
        AskWoody Lounger

        I bought a MacBook Air last year, been a few years since I used a Mac. Honestly was disappointed in it for the most part. Slow Y series Intel CPU, only has two Thunderbolt ports, Mac OS not as good and trouble free as it used to be. I have a self built Windows desktop PC that I definitely like better than my MacBook for work. My wife’s 3 year old HP Envy runs faster than my 2019 MacBook Air and I paid less for the HP Envy. Windows 10 not my favorite Windows but neither is Mac OS Mojave or Catalina and for the savings I would definitely buy a Windows PC next time over a Mac. It’s not worth it, and justifying any Mac these days can be hard to do. The Mac Pro line has improved but I imagine Tim Cook realized the margins are still good on selling Pro Mac’s. You look at any of the base model Mac’s are they simply are not a good value.

        • This reply was modified 1 month ago by John.
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        • #2171365 Reply
          anonymous
          Guest

          For Apple’s Laptops no but for the 2019 Mac Pro get a base model and upgrade it yourself and save enough money to more than make up for that initial sticker shock on the base model Mac Pro 2019 edition. Just the engineering for the Mac Pro 2019 must have cost millions more but go and watch the LTT videos and the Mac Pro’s costs at this early time have to include the needed engineering and R&D development costs amortization expense/recovery. Once the economy of scale kicks in maybe Apple can offer some deals  but that’s purely based on any Mac Pro supply and demand curve forcing Apple’s hand in maybe lowering the base model Mac Pro 2019’s sticker shock.

          That Mac Pro 2019 edition is a real workstation SKU there can be no question about that so that market has pros and their tax/business expense 5 year amortization cycle and that taking more of the pain from the purchase price, and that includes any financing expenses/charges towards that purchase price as well.

          And compare Apple’s Mac Pro cost/features to HP’s/Dell’s Pro Workstation costs/features along with the necessary software included and that’s what the Pros have to consider. And if you are a Professional Audio Engineer that’s heavily invested in Apple’s Pro/Software ecosystem then that has to be part of any cost/benefit analysis as well. But that all comes part and parcel with your fees that you charge to your clients and if the Mac Pro 2019 can increase your productivity there then any cost premium can be easily recouped.

      • #2171453 Reply
        woody
        Da Boss

        From @b:

        How easy is it to set up a Mac without creating an Apple ID?

        From Nathan Parker:

        Simple enough since you can click Skip on the Setup Assistant.

        Apple ID required if you want to use iCloud, FaceTime, iMessage, Find My, and install Mac App Store apps.

         

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #2172239 Reply
          OscarCP
          AskWoody Plus

          If I remember correctly, you need the ID also for getting help from the User Support people.

          I say “if I remember” because, although I bought extended Apple Support, I only had to use it twice, sometime in the first two months after I got the Mac out of its box. These days there is so much information and advice about the everyday use of Macs and their common problems available on the Web, AskWoody included, that I wonder if the Mac support guy might not be spending a lot of his time hanging out with the Maytag repairman.

          Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group W (ex B) & macOS + Linux (Mint)

          1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2172006 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        Meh, Apple’s draconian control policies have always steered me away from their products. I was a staunch Microsoft supporter since I began using MS-DOS in 1990. They had their hiccups with WinME and Vista, but they ultimately took responsibility and fixed the problem with corrective updates (Win 2000 & Win 7, respectively)

        It wasn’t until they released Win 8 that things went permanently downhill. Win 8 was garbage, Win 8.1 was doubling down on garbage and Win 10 is more of the same without proper quality assurance.

        It’s been a long time since Microsoft truly published an UPgrade to Windows that I wanted to move to.

        Consequently, I moved to Linux and haven’t looked back. With the way Microsoft is going, I suspect many will be “seeing the light” shortly.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
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