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  • Here’s what I don’t know about the upgrade to Win10 version 1909

    Home Forums AskWoody blog Here’s what I don’t know about the upgrade to Win10 version 1909

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    This topic contains 41 replies, has 14 voices, and was last updated by  abbodi86 4 weeks ago.

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    • #2001652 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      Next Tuesday, the whole ball game changes — Microsoft’s releasing Win10 version 1909 and the latest official version of Win10 will change, from 1903
      [See the full post at: Here’s what I don’t know about the upgrade to Win10 version 1909]

      6 users thanked author for this post.
    • #2001664 Reply

      dononline
      AskWoody Plus

      “Q5: All of the same questions, but for Win10 version 1803.
      Remember that 1803 hits end-of-support on Tuesday, but in the normal course of events you should be good for security patches until December’s Patch Tuesday. So how does the “Download and install now” offer fit into the 1803 scheme of things?”

      I have 1803 on three computers. I updated Nov. 3 and got no security patches for Windows, including the Oct. Cumulative Update. All I was offered were the 2010 Office Patches and the usual non-Windows security patches for Oct. I installed what I was offered and then downloaded the Oct. Cumulative Update from the Catalog and installed it manually.

      Sorry! I couldn’t get the block-quote function to work right. It kept block-quoting my entire comment.

      • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  dononline.
      • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  dononline.
      • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  dononline.
      • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  dononline.
      • #2001738 Reply

        Kirsty
        Da Boss

        Sorry! I couldn’t get the block-quote function to work right. It kept block-quoting my entire comment.

        After clicking Reply, select the text you wish to quote, then press Quote (in the row at the bottom of the reply you are quoting), and proceed 🙂

        • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  Kirsty. Reason: Clarification
        2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #2001670 Reply

      PKCano
      Da Boss

      I have an 1803 Pro
      Set SAC, Feature deferral = 365, Quality deferral = 0, in GP Configure Automatic Updates = Enabled value 2 (notify doenload/install.
      I was offered the Oct. CU as usual. I have neveer seen the “Download and install now” on this machine.

      The same thing goes for my 1809 Pro with the same settings. Oct CU, no “Download and install now.”

      Funny thing. If they are calling this next release 1909, my Insider Fast Ring (20h1) is still being designated v1903 Build 19018.1

      4 users thanked author for this post.
    • #2001701 Reply

      Tex265
      AskWoody Plus

      PK – same here for my 1803 with same settings as you.

      Q6:  For those still on Win 10 Pro 1803, will the Feature deferred days “number of setting days trick” still produce either 1809 or 1903 or 1909?

      If 1903 will be gone, should we Feature upgrade to 1903 now?  Otherwise we will be EOL for 1803 and it may be a long time until 1909 shakes out.

      What version of 1903 is the Windows Media website producing as of now?

      Windows 10 Pro x64 v1903 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64
      • #2001706 Reply

        PKCano
        Da Boss

        The feature deferrals have always worked for me.

        As of patch Tues Nov 12 (and I may be a day or so off so don’t use the endpoints) Feature deferral settings on 1803:
        If they release 1909 to everyone, 0 or 1 may get you 1909??
        2-174 days should get you 1903
        174-229 days should get you 1809
        Greater than 229 days should get you nothing.

        I have never seen the “Download and install now”
        I will be checking 1803, 1809 and 1903 for their behavior.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #2001728 Reply

      b
      AskWoody Plus

      Those of you already running Win10 1903 will get a polite invitation to Download and install the Feature update to Windows 10, version 1909.

      So will those running 1803 or 1809:

      This new ‘Download and install now’ capability is available for devices running Windows 10, version 1803 or version 1809 that also have the May 21st updates (or later) installed.
      https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2019/05/21/how-to-get-the-windows-10-may-2019-update/

      Starting with update KB4499183 [for 1803, KB4497934 for 1809], we are introducing functionality that allows you to decide when to install a feature update. You control when you get a feature update while simultaneously keeping your devices up to date. Feature updates that are available for eligible devices will appear in a separate module on the Windows Update page (Settings > Update & Security > Windows Update). If you would like to get an available update right away, select Download and install now.
      https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4499183
      https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4497934

       

      Q1: Will the “Download and install now” offer on 1903 machines be subject to the same quality update deferral settings that control cumulative updates?

      My guess is feature update deferral, even though installation may be more like a cumulative update. But I do think it will wait until any pause or defer has expired.

       

      Q2: Will the “Download and install now” offer on 1809 Pro machines be subject to the feature and quality update deferral settings?

      Same as for 1903, I think. But I don’t think Branch Readiness Level is relevant to anything any longer. The Broad/Targeted notions have been eliminated for all versions as far as I can see.

       

      Q3: Will Win10 1809 Home machines ever see the “Download and install now” offer? If so, will the offer appear even if I have my internet connection set to metered? Is there an entry in the wushowhide list that’ll block the “Download and install now” offer?

      I assume they will see the offer, but not on a metered connection. I’ve never used wushowhide for a feature update, so I’m not sure about that.

       

      Q4: After Tuesday, will it be possible to move from Win10 1809 Home to Win10 1903 Home?

      Not via Windows Update, but I don’t see why ISO upgrade becomes more difficult after Tuesday.

       

      Q5: All of the same questions, but for Win10 version 1803.

      My guess is same as 1809/1903 this month but forced update next month.

       

      Good questions!: Educated guesses only, not definitive answers!

      P.S. Microsoft has only ever said that “Download and install now” applies to Feature updates.
      Have we definitely seen other updates appearing there on rare (buggy?) occasions?

      Windows 10 Pro Version 1909 (Group ASAP)

      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2001742 Reply

        Tex265
        AskWoody Plus

        So will those running 1803 or 1809:

        This new ‘Download and install now’ capability is available for devices running Windows 10, version 1803 or version 1809 that also have the May 21st updates (or later) installed.

        Per posts by PK Cano and myself, neither of us has ever seen the “Download and install now” link in our 1803.  Perhaps due to our settings?

        I suspect there are others also.

        Windows 10 Pro x64 v1903 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64
        • #2001779 Reply

          b
          AskWoody Plus

          Per posts by PK Cano and myself, neither of us has ever seen the “Download and install now” link in our 1803. Perhaps due to our settings?

          I suspect there are others also.

          Which feature update did you expect to be offered with defer set to 365?

          Windows 10 Pro Version 1909 (Group ASAP)

      • #2001816 Reply

        woody
        Da Boss

        All seem like reasonable suppositions. Just wish we had some definitive answers!

        I don’t think Branch Readiness Level is relevant to anything any longer.

        I only mentioned that if (if!) setting SAC adds 60 days to the feature update deferral setting.

        I’ve never used wushowhide for a feature update, so I’m not sure about that.

        Yep, the feature updates appear in wushowhide. At least, they have in the past.

        I don’t see why ISO upgrade becomes more difficult after Tuesday.

        As long as you have a copy of the ISO in your hip pocket, you’ll be fine.

        Have we definitely seen other updates appearing there on rare (buggy?) occasions?

        Yes but, if I recall correctly, only during betas.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #2001828 Reply

          b
          AskWoody Plus

          I only mentioned that if (if!) setting SAC adds 60 days to the feature update deferral setting.

          MS said the +60 days was a one-off compensation for upgrade to 1903 (just the first affected):

          For devices that have been configured with a branch readiness of SAC, for the upgrade to version 1903 only, we will add an additional 60 days to the configured deferral.
          Windows Update for Business and the retirement of SAC-T

          Windows 10 Pro Version 1909 (Group ASAP)

          1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #2001730 Reply

      NetDef
      AskWoody_MVP

      Related:  Keep an eye on the page link below this coming Tuesday – should see a new template appear for 1909 Group Policy for domain managed machines.  There are going to be some changes . . .

       

      https://support.microsoft.com/en-in/help/3087759/how-to-create-and-manage-the-central-store-for-group-policy-administra

       

      ~ Group "Weekend" ~

      4 users thanked author for this post.
    • #2001844 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      UPDATE: Just to be absolutely clear… MS has NOT committed to shipping 1909 next Tuesday. It just seems to be a general consensus of opinion.

      5 users thanked author for this post.
    • #2001877 Reply

      anonymous

      Running Win 10 1803 64 bit on a small business/home net.  Hoping for availability of a 1909 ISO from which to do installations (rather than a download/inline route), sometime in January/February if 1909 seems solid with early adopters.

      • #2001947 Reply

        dononline
        AskWoody Plus

        Running Win 10 1803 64 bit on a small business/home net.

        Same here. I plan on upgrading to 1909 from an ISO file as soon as it is declared “good enough for business.”

    • #2001887 Reply

      sheldon
      AskWoody Plus

      Wondering whether if the update for 1903 to 1909 is the cumulative update for 1903? That is, there is no other monthly update in November for 1903 but this one?

      • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  sheldon.
      • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  sheldon.
      • #2001898 Reply

        PKCano
        Da Boss

        I believe there will be the usual Cumulative Update for 1903 that will have a 1903 Build number.
        IF Microsoft releases 1909 on Patch Tuesday, it may be “cumulative-like” but it will be treated separate from 1903.
        In other words, there will still be two versions.

        4 users thanked author for this post.
    • #2001888 Reply

      anonymous

      Not sure it helps, but I’m on Win 10 Home 1709 (don’t ask) and wushowhide  shows me Feature update to 1903.

      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2001926 Reply

        woody
        Da Boss

        Keep an eye on it and let me know if it changes to “Feature update to 1909” any time soon. Thx!

        • #2001965 Reply

          anonymous

          Somewhere in the gibberish of the Windows Insider blogs, there’s a note that 1909 requires to have 1903 installed first. Of course, Microsoft also shipped a full-fledged modern host setup (same as running  the upgrade via Media Creation Tool) via Windows Updates to some ‘Insiders’. Anyway, if it’s shipped as ‘cumulative’ update, it requires 1903 being installed.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #2004664 Reply

          anonymous

          No 1909 yet, but 1903 re-appeared in wushowhide’s “which updates do you want to hide” list.

    • #2001989 Reply

      zero2dash
      AskWoody Lounger

      So far, with feature deferrals set, I’ve never been offered a “jump” release (jumping up 2 release versions). I’ve only been offered the next release in the chronological order.
      I’ve went from 1703 > 1709 > 1803 > 1809 > 1903.
      Maybe I’m giving them more credit than what is due, but I doubt things will change.

      I would expect 1803 to be offered 1809 still, and 1809 to be offered 1903, not 1909 – if deferrals are set properly and the time elapsed is correct compared to the setting.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #2002305 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      Excellent question from a reader:

      If I were to move to v1903 using an ISO (followed your advice), would it be like a fresh install and would I lose all my installed applications and devices?  Thank you.

    • #2002689 Reply

      anonymous

      I’ve been running the Insider build of 1909 Pro for a week using a clean ISO build on a spare SSD, while keeping my main system on 1809 (same PC, just different SSD loads).

      As compared with running the same 1903 Pro for a few months on the spare SSD (using a clean ISO also), I have to say I prefer 1909.  Windows 1903 after the first month of  windows updates caused my CPU speeds to fall below their normal Min and Max, as if the bus speeds were reporting slightly lower.  For example, from 800 min and 4300 max, to 789 and 4290.  1909 seems more polished overall, and it probably should, as it’s more of a service pack.

      Although for my Haswell system, 1903 and 1909 report lower Novabench scores (particularly CPU scores) than 1809 and 1803, even with InSpectre and Meltdown protection disabled.

      I may jump to 1909 rather than 1903, just before 1809 support ends.

    • #2005169 Reply

      abbodi86
      AskWoody_MVP

      Q1: No, “Download and install now” on 1903 is subject to feature update deferral settings (in 1903 Home, it will show regardless)

      yes, using Pause will affect and prevent all updates including the above

      Q2: Same as above, “Download and install now” is controlled by feature update deferrals, and Branch Readiness level will not make a difference

      Q3: Yes, version 1909 is currently offered as OptionalInstall update, AKA “Download and install now”

      1803 Home with metered connection

      none of the known tools can show OptionalInstall updates (wushowhide, WUMT, WuMgr)
      we must use powershell (or vbs script) to specify the search criteria to include DeploymentAction=’OptionalInstallation’

      Q4: on 1803 Home/Pro, version 1903 is pushed as regular update (along with optional 1909)

      on 1809 Home, version 1903 is no longer reachable
      on 1809 other editions or 1803 Enerprise/Education, deferrals can still get 1903 (or 1809)

      4 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2005193 Reply

        abbodi86
        AskWoody_MVP

        Q1 addendum: Pausing updates takes precedence over Deferral

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #2005214 Reply

          b
          AskWoody Plus

          Could you explain what you mean by “takes precedence over”, and/or give an example?

          I regard them as independent; if deferral has expired, pausing could still apply; and if pausing has expired, deferral could still apply.

          Windows 10 Pro Version 1909 (Group ASAP)

          2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #2005300 Reply

            abbodi86
            AskWoody_MVP

            That’s what actually ment, sorry for the mis-interruption 🙂

            i set FU deferral for 1 day, then paused it for 7 days, it kept paused after the day passed

            3 users thanked author for this post.
          • #2005339 Reply

            woody
            Da Boss

            That’s a key takeaway from the real-world situation.

      • #2005341 Reply

        woody
        Da Boss

        Q2: Same as above, “Download and install now” is controlled by feature update deferrals, and Branch Readiness level will not make a difference

        Do you know if Branch readiness level = Semi-Annual Channel adds 60 days to the Feature update deferral setting?

        Big thanks for running all of those tests!

        • #2005357 Reply

          abbodi86
          AskWoody_MVP

          No, it does not
          changing the channel does not make a difference, only the deferral days

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          b
      • #2005731 Reply

        woody
        Da Boss

        Let me see if I get this….

        If you’re on Win10 1809 Home and your connection is metered, you get the “Download and install now” prompt for 1909? (If so, which cumulative update enables that message?)

        If you’re on Win10 1809 Home and the connection isn’t metered, you’re upgraded to 1909 without the “Download and install now” option?

        • #2005732 Reply

          PKCano
          Da Boss

          Are they already pushing/forcing 1809 to 1909?
          Or do you mean 1803?

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #2005734 Reply

            woody
            Da Boss

            Yep, I meant 1809 Home.

            Excellent question – and I don’t know.

        • #2005887 Reply

          abbodi86
          AskWoody_MVP

          Yes, KB4497934 (17763.529) or later

          no, you will also get the same optional offer (unless you clicked Check for updates button)

          @pkcano
          1909 is not pushed for any version yet (at least not 1803, 1809, 1903 or even 1607)

          the situation could be different for 1803 and 1809 without recent CU (which add the support for “Download and install now”)

          2 users thanked author for this post.
          b, woody
    • #2005204 Reply

      Sportsman
      AskWoody Lounger

      I was running 1809 Home (metered). Just to make sure I didn’t get jumped to 1909, I decided to update to 1903 yesterday using an iso I made earlier as Woody recommended. It took 3.5 hr (which is normal on my i3 laptop) and went smoothly. I am now being offered 1909 on the updates page but will wait a while. This is what it looks like with 1903 Home and a metered connection.

      WU

      Windows 10 Home 64-bit

      Attachments:
      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2005268 Reply

        Ascaris
        AskWoody_MVP

        I decided to update to 1903 yesterday using an iso I made earlier as Woody recommended. It took 3.5 hr (which is normal on my i3 laptop)

        Wow.  I knew it could be time-consuming, but that’s just crazy.  Is that time on par with how long it takes for an update downloaded and installed in the usual way?  How much of that was during the second phase, after it reboots?  That’s the worst bit… the system is offline, unusable, and once you get to that bit, you have no choice but to let it finish, or else the system is liable to be rendered unbootable.

        I know an i3 is on the bottom of the i-series, but it’s still a step up from my N-series “Pentium” SoC in my Swift.  It came with 10, but I’ve never gone through the update process.  I put Linux on there right away, without ever having allowed Windows to update.  The one time I did boot into Windows for some minor thing or other and it insisted on updating before letting me shut down or reboot, I didn’t feel like waiting several minutes, let alone three and a half hours, before I could get back to using my laptop, so I just forced it off in disgust. I am not sure if that was on the Swift or the G3, but the idea is the same either way.

        I’ve upgraded from one Linux version to another several times, including major version upgrades (like when Neon updated from an Ubuntu base of 16.04 to 18.04), and while it may take a while, it all happens while the system is usable, like the first phase of Windows updates.  If Windows could do it that way, the long update cycle would not be so bad.  It’s the whole “you can’t use your PC now, come back in another hour and we’ll see” thing that really gets me.

        Group "L" (KDE Neon User Edition 5.17.4).

        • #2005389 Reply

          anonymous

          I have an HP i3 laptop which takes 3-4 hours for each major upgrade.

          It is a pain but I now build sufficient time and space into the programme for that!  My Win7 and Win8.1 machines do not require that much maintenance but they are not getting a “whole new experience”…

          1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2005315 Reply

        woody
        Da Boss

        Good choice.

        • #2005366 Reply

          Jones55
          AskWoody Plus

          Hi,
          I’m on Windows 10 1809 PRO 32 bit,  updated through Oktober 2019. Deferral settings 365 days.  quality deferred  22 days
          When i upgraded form 1709 to 1809, with burned ISO on DVD,  i followed instructions below cause i wanted to prevent the upgrade from creating a extra System Reserved Partition.

          “You might want to consider adding to the recommendations running setup.exe from the command-line as administrator and using few switches to enforce as much as possible the retention of the older settings or not creating an additional recovery partition”

          setup.exe /dynamicupdate disable /resizerecoverypartition disable /showoobe full /telemetry disable

          1) Will this still work,  when upgrading from 1809 to 1903?
          with media creation tool i created the 1903 as adviced by woody. Did this two times.

          sept 27   ISO (option save for different PC, or something like that)  2.976,192 kb  ISO
          nov 4       ISO (option save for different PC, or something like that)  4.123,840 kb  ISO

          2) Main thing is, i want to keep my personal files and Apps. Is is mandatory that i upgrade to 1903 first to achief this? or can i wait till 1809 hits EOL
          3) if i proceed which of the two created ISO’s should i best use?

          Thanks

    • #2005579 Reply

      Sportsman
      AskWoody Lounger

      Wow. I knew it could be time-consuming, but that’s just crazy. Is that time on par with how long it takes for an update downloaded and installed in the usual way? How much of that was during the second phase, after it reboots?

      Unfortunately, the last two feature updates both took about 3 hr. With this one, the second phase took up the last half hour. It rebooted four times total that I noticed. The laptop has an i3-6100U and 4 GB of RAM with a slow, mechanical hard disk.

      Windows 10 Home 64-bit

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