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  • How to keep Win10 version 1909 from installing

    Home Forums AskWoody blog How to keep Win10 version 1909 from installing

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    This topic contains 61 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by  woody 5 days ago.

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    • #1996712 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      The rules have changed. Keeping 1909 off your machine until you’re ready to install it is much easier than blocking upgrades in previous versions of W
      [See the full post at: How to keep Win10 version 1909 from installing]

      Attachments:
    • #1996740 Reply

      Tex265
      AskWoody Plus

      OK so if you are on Windows 10 Home 1803 – go to 1903.

      And Woody is seriously considering going from Windows Pro 1809 to 1903.

      But those on Windows Pro 1803 should consider going to 1809? (with 6 months left) or 1903.

      I’m on Win Pro 1803 looking for some consensus, but it sure seems like 1903 is in the lead.

      With 1903 discussions all over this Forum – can someone list what are the drop dead issues against 1903?  And 1809?

      Windows 10 Pro x64 v1803 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64
      • #1996748 Reply

        PKCano
        Da Boss

        You could be that someone. Why don’t you try to make that list for the benefit of all here?

        • This reply was modified 1 week, 3 days ago by  PKCano.
        • #1996760 Reply

          Tex265
          AskWoody Plus

          PK, you got me there!

          Unfortunately it would take me forever to find all that has been published on this topic, some of which I am sure has been resolved over time or made worse as CU’s have been released.  Also not having 1903 installed as of yet, I have not followed the path as closely as others may have.

          I assumed Woody and the experts herein, have rational for not readily endorsing 1903 to the masses yet.  What are they?

          Windows 10 Pro x64 v1803 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64
          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #1996764 Reply

            woody
            Da Boss

            Just look at the problems we had with last month’s 1903 patches.

            A truly solid OS doesn’t get shafted like that.

            1809 has its problems, but again look at last month. Stupid bugs in the 1809 patches, but not of the magnitude, uh, enjoyed by 1903.

            On the other hand – and it’s a BIG hand – 1903 has the update blocking settings that we’ve all wanted for years. That’s particularly compelling for Home customers.

            It’s a difficult question – and I’ve been struggling with it for months.

            2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1996940 Reply

        anonymous

        I don’t believe you can solve that rationally. People’s opinions will be tainted by whatever experience they’ve had on whatever system they use on whatever device they use it on. To get a true picture, you’d need responses from people who use the same device who have tested side-by-side installations. Even if you could find that, updates change everything (figuratively, as well as literally). From today forward, one, the other or both may work perfectly (or neither.

        I  generally make the 10 move every 12 months using the update that’s at least six months or so old.  That cuts down the change stress to once per annum. Every six months is ridiculous.  Meanwhile, I don’t have THAT problem on my Win 7 machine. What is it about feature updates that Microsoft think will change their world. Would they not be better served gaining a reputation for rock-solid reliability, offering features via a side-channel instead of ramming them down our unwilling throats,

      • #1997951 Reply

        anonymous

        When does 1909 replace 1903 as the updateable version?

    • #1996925 Reply

      Tex265
      AskWoody Plus

      First spotted by VIP Bree (who had been tracking the issue for five months) at TenForums.com: https://www.tenforums.com/windows-updates-activation/142625-strange-case-missing-pause-feature-update-setting-post1754080.html#post1754080%5B/quote%5D

      It’s highly likely that this update (KB4522355) has finally fixed the “disappearing defer settings” in Windows 10 Pro on versions 1903 and 1909. (I’ll be testing this shortly on 1909. It may help if someone could also test on 1903.)

      Has this ever been widely confirmed?

      Windows 10 Pro x64 v1803 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64
      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #1997776 Reply

        b
        AskWoody Plus

        No, but the fix has persisted for me over the last 10 days.

        Defer settings remain available whatever they’re set to after KB4522355 for versions 1903/1909.

        Hopefully more will now be installing this update to confirm that it works for everyone.

        Knuckle dragger Cannon fodder Chump Daft glutton Idiot Crazy/Ignorant Toxic drinker Blockhead Unwashed mass Seeker/Sucker "Ancient/Obsolete" (Group ASAP) Win10 v.1909

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #1997790 Reply

          woody
          Da Boss

          If the settings were non-zero (and, thus, the pane hidden) prior to the installation of KB 4522355, the “optional non-security” second cumulative update for October, do those non-zero settings show when the pane re-appears?

          If so, this is an excellent change. I hope it persists with the November cumulative update.

          • #1997801 Reply

            b
            AskWoody Plus

            After installing KB4522355, it took a “Check for updates” followed by a system restart before the two defer settings reappeared for me. But now they won’t disappear again whatever I do with them.

            Knuckle dragger Cannon fodder Chump Daft glutton Idiot Crazy/Ignorant Toxic drinker Blockhead Unwashed mass Seeker/Sucker "Ancient/Obsolete" (Group ASAP) Win10 v.1909

            1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #1997808 Reply

              b
              AskWoody Plus

              … of course, it doesn’t help in this instance that you always say;

              Just remember: Don’t ever click Check for updates.

              Perhaps in the era of an additional “Download and install now” section, it’s time to retire that mantra?

              Knuckle dragger Cannon fodder Chump Daft glutton Idiot Crazy/Ignorant Toxic drinker Blockhead Unwashed mass Seeker/Sucker "Ancient/Obsolete" (Group ASAP) Win10 v.1909

            • #1998834 Reply

              woody
              Da Boss

              When I’m convinced that MS is always displaying “Download and install now,” I’ll gladly drop the admonition.

              There are changes coming in 20H1 that should make things better. Right now, if MS has two “optional” updates in the queue, it isn’t clear to me how they distinguish between them. Supposedly 20H1 makes that clearer.

        • #2000297 Reply

          abbodi86
          AskWoody_MVP

          I can confirm that the Deferral settings UI issue is fixed with KB4522355

          by the way, you can initiate WU scan (in order for the changes to take effect) without clicking “Check for updates” button

          just close Settings page and simply run powershell command:
          Start-WUScan

          you can also run it from command prompt:
          powershell -noprofile -exec bypass -c “$r= Start-WUScan”

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #2000415 Reply

            woody
            Da Boss

            Yessssssssssssss!

            A lingering question: If the “Pause updates” and “deferral” options are different, which one wins? My guess is that Windows Update waits for both to be cleared, but….

          • #2000460 Reply

            abbodi86
            AskWoody_MVP

            Wins how exactly?

            i never used or tried pause options befor, ever 🙂

            since KB4522355 is the latest Optional Update, and ver 1909 is not public yet, the “Download and Install” panel will not show up for now

            but i have the flash and 2 .NET updates in the queue
            i will try pause with DeferQualityUpdate to see

            • #2000494 Reply

              woody
              Da Boss

              If the quality update deferral setting is at, say, 20 days. And you’ve clicking Pause updates 3 times (total 21 days), will cumulative updates install after 20 days, or will WU wait for 21 days?

              The other way around – if you click Pause updates 3 times and have quality update deferral set to 15 days, will cumulative updates be installed after 16 days?

            • #2000528 Reply

              b
              AskWoody Plus

              Both 21. Pause is when and defer is what.

              Knuckle dragger Cannon fodder Chump Daft glutton Idiot Crazy/Ignorant Toxic drinker Blockhead Unwashed mass Seeker/Sucker "Ancient/Obsolete" (Group ASAP) Win10 v.1909

            • #2000638 Reply

              woody
              Da Boss

              Pause is when and defer is what.

              Understood (and I didn’t word my examples very well).

              So in both cases, Windows Update waits until it’s satisfied both the deferral setting and the Pause setting. Makes sense.

    • #1997062 Reply

      berniec
      AskWoody Plus

      I have 1809 and I don’t see any of those options. All I have is Update Options [which I have set to ‘on’] and automatically updates over metered connections [off] and show a notification when your PC requires a restart to complete [yes].

      Is this another case [ and if so, shame on you!!] of needing to be logged in on an admin account to do these things? I said before and I’ll say it again, I think that _default_ doing *ANYTHING* on windows as admin is foolish and dangerous and shouldn’t be encouraged. If we need admin for one of your tuning suggestions you should tell us.

      • #1997793 Reply

        woody
        Da Boss

        I take the shame. 🙂

        What options are you talking about?

        • #1997851 Reply

          berniec
          AskWoody Plus

          The seminannual update and 365 days deferral settings are only availalbe if you’re logged in as admin. Since you didn’t notice that, I expect you just run as admin all time, which I think is a bad idea.

          • #1998835 Reply

            woody
            Da Boss

            OIC.

            Yes, I feel duly admonished. And I should mention it….

            • #2000475 Reply

              b
              AskWoody Plus

              You did:

              Staying on 1809 is relatively easy if you’re using Windows 10 Pro. Using an administrator account, click Start > Settings > Update & Security. Click the link marked Advanced options. Make sure you have the channel set to Semi-Annual Channel and feature update deferral set to 365 as shown in the screenshot below.
              How to block the Windows 10 November 2019 Update, version 1909, from installing

              (But you still never mention an admin account being required when you talk about switching a metered connection on/off.)

              Knuckle dragger Cannon fodder Chump Daft glutton Idiot Crazy/Ignorant Toxic drinker Blockhead Unwashed mass Seeker/Sucker "Ancient/Obsolete" (Group ASAP) Win10 v.1909

              1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #1997169 Reply

      anonymous

      1809 home here and I get the Feature update to Windows 10, version 1903 Download and install now option. The article made it sound like that was only available on 1903.

      • #1997794 Reply

        woody
        Da Boss

        I saw that, too.

        I hope it’s a harbinger of the restraint we can expect with 1803, as well!

      • #1997823 Reply

        b
        AskWoody Plus

        “Download and install now” has been available on all current versions for nearly six months:

        This new ‘Download and install now’ capability is available for devices running Windows 10, version 1803 or version 1809 that also have the May 21st updates (or later) installed.
        https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2019/05/21/how-to-get-the-windows-10-may-2019-update/

        Knuckle dragger Cannon fodder Chump Daft glutton Idiot Crazy/Ignorant Toxic drinker Blockhead Unwashed mass Seeker/Sucker "Ancient/Obsolete" (Group ASAP) Win10 v.1909

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #1998840 Reply

          woody
          Da Boss

          … but I haven’t seen it implemented consistently. For example, where was it when we had the kerfuffle with the IE zero-day “out of band” patches — all three of them? When one upgrades from 1809 after Nov. 14, will the machine go to 1903 with the “Download and install now” offer for 1909 – or will it go straight to 1909? And how will MS distinguish between the two possibilities.

          • #1998895 Reply

            PKCano
            Da Boss

            As a matter of fact, with my three Win10 Pro (1803, 1809, and 1903) set at SAC, 365, 0, Auto Updates Enabled value set a 2, I have never seen the “Download and install now.”

            2 users thanked author for this post.
            • #1998997 Reply

              b
              AskWoody Plus

              Which feature update did you expect to be offered with defer set to 365 days?

              Knuckle dragger Cannon fodder Chump Daft glutton Idiot Crazy/Ignorant Toxic drinker Blockhead Unwashed mass Seeker/Sucker "Ancient/Obsolete" (Group ASAP) Win10 v.1909

            • #1999024 Reply

              PKCano
              Da Boss

              Not necessarily looking for Feature updates.
              Does it not also apply to optional (available) updates?

            • #1999997 Reply

              b
              AskWoody Plus

              Not necessarily looking for Feature updates.
              Does it not also apply to optional (available) updates?

              I don’t believe so:

              Starting with update KB4497934, we are introducing functionality that allows you to decide when to install a feature update. You control when you get a feature update while simultaneously keeping your devices up to date. Feature updates that are available for eligible devices will appear in a separate module on the Windows Update page (Settings > Update & Security > Windows Update). If you would like to get an available update right away, select Download and install now. To find out more about this feature, please go to this blog.
              May 21, 2019—KB4497934 (OS Build OS 17763.529)

              Knuckle dragger Cannon fodder Chump Daft glutton Idiot Crazy/Ignorant Toxic drinker Blockhead Unwashed mass Seeker/Sucker "Ancient/Obsolete" (Group ASAP) Win10 v.1909

          • #2000168 Reply

            b
            AskWoody Plus

            … but I haven’t seen it implemented consistently. For example, where was it when we had the kerfuffle with the IE zero-day “out of band” patches — all three of them?

            Your biggest complaint (and Susan’s) about the IE zero-day patches was that they weren’t “real out-of-band updates” because they were optional for 10 days before being “pushed”. (Don’t you normally argue against “forced” updates?) I don’t see how being offered for download and install would have improved that situation.

            When one upgrades from 1809 after Nov. 14, will the machine go to 1903 with the “Download and install now” offer for 1909 – or will it go straight to 1909? And how will MS distinguish between the two possibilities.

            I can’t see that Microsoft will ever offer anything except the latest generally available version unless that is deferred. Microsoft doesn’t need to distinguish when Pro users have full control over which newer version is offered via feature update deferral of up to a year.

            Knuckle dragger Cannon fodder Chump Daft glutton Idiot Crazy/Ignorant Toxic drinker Blockhead Unwashed mass Seeker/Sucker "Ancient/Obsolete" (Group ASAP) Win10 v.1909

            • #2000497 Reply

              woody
              Da Boss

              Microsoft doesn’t need to distinguish when Pro users have full control over which newer version is offered via feature update deferral of up to a year.

              The problem is with Home. I keep hoping Home will no longer be treated as a second class patching citizen. The availability of “Pause updates” for Home gave me some hope!

    • #1997173 Reply

      warrenrumak
      AskWoody Plus

      Nitpicker’s corner:  All Windows 10 1903 machines already have the entire contents of Windows 10 1909 on them…. it’s just that the feature flags enabling the new features are turned off.

       

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #1998841 Reply

        woody
        Da Boss

        I hear ya… but wonder how much of that is just marketing and semantics.

    • #1997671 Reply

      wavy
      AskWoody Plus

      Really, so it should just be a tiny download and setting a metered connection would not prohibit an upgrade ??

      🍻

      Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.
      • #1997798 Reply

        woody
        Da Boss

        That’s an excellent question. I don’t know just yet.

        I also don’t know exactly how the November cumulative update will behave.

        Whether all of 1909 is already in 1903, just not enabled, is debatable – and largely a question of semantics.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #1997893 Reply

          sheldon
          AskWoody Plus

          Will 1909 be a feature update or be a cumulative update to 1903?   Another way of looking at it, will 1903 and 1909 exist on separate tracks?

          • #1997899 Reply

            PKCano
            Da Boss

            Supposedly, 1903 and 1909 are going to be the same content except for some kind of package of “enablers” that 1909 will receive to “turn on” the additional features(?).

            • #1997901 Reply

              sheldon
              AskWoody Plus

              Thus are you saying that 1903 and 1909 will continue to exist and get updates after 1909 is released?

              • This reply was modified 1 week, 2 days ago by  sheldon.
            • #1997907 Reply

              PKCano
              Da Boss

              It appears that way. But we’re talking Microsoft here! 🙂

              2 users thanked author for this post.
            • #1998340 Reply

              Tex265
              AskWoody Plus

              I can’t readily put my finger on it, but I seem to recall back when the 1909 was first being discussed that you could feature update to 1903 and then to 1909 OR wait and go directly to 1909.

              Windows 10 Pro x64 v1803 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64
    • #1998045 Reply

      anonymous

      Hm, I assume if one set the feature deferral via the Win 10 Group Policy Editor in 1903 to 365 days / semi-annual channel, the 1909-upgrade will NOT appear, right…?

      • #1998063 Reply

        Kirsty
        Da Boss

        @pkcano has documented a lot on the various settings and their impact, such as here and here. Reading these should give you answers to your question (if not, post back again).

        • #1998345 Reply

          Tex265
          AskWoody Plus

          Don’t think how to handle 1909 was ever definitively answered since there will be 3 versions of Win 10 available at the same time 1809,1903, and 1909. And will 1909 be a “traditional feature update” or more of a cumulative update?

          Windows 10 Pro x64 v1803 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64
          • #1998836 Reply

            woody
            Da Boss

            That’s a question all of us are hoping MS will answer, at some point.

            1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #1998780 Reply

      radosuaf
      AskWoody Lounger

      I installed Windows 1909 yesterday and guess what? Start menu doesn’t work :). Right-click works, left-click doesn’t :). Will check that today again and if it’ still not working, I’ll roll-back.

      MSI H110 PC MATE * Intel Core i5-6402P * 2 x 8 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2133 MHz * Aorus Radeon RX 570 4GB * Samsung 840 EVO 250GB SSD * Western Digital Blue 1TB HDD * Seagate Barracuda 1TB HDD * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer PCI * Windows 10 Pro 1909 64-bit
      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #1998837 Reply

        woody
        Da Boss

        ARRRRGH. (When you say it doesn’t work, I assume it throws the blue “Critical Error” message?)

        Did you have the same problem with 1903? If so, which build?

        • #1998852 Reply

          radosuaf
          AskWoody Lounger

          Nope, it just doesn’t react. Nothing happens. I’ve had the latest 1903 build before with no issues at all.

          MSI H110 PC MATE * Intel Core i5-6402P * 2 x 8 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2133 MHz * Aorus Radeon RX 570 4GB * Samsung 840 EVO 250GB SSD * Western Digital Blue 1TB HDD * Seagate Barracuda 1TB HDD * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer PCI * Windows 10 Pro 1909 64-bit
          • This reply was modified 1 week, 1 day ago by  radosuaf.
          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #1999504 Reply

            radosuaf
            AskWoody Lounger

            Hmmm… False alarm. Works now :).

            MSI H110 PC MATE * Intel Core i5-6402P * 2 x 8 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2133 MHz * Aorus Radeon RX 570 4GB * Samsung 840 EVO 250GB SSD * Western Digital Blue 1TB HDD * Seagate Barracuda 1TB HDD * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer PCI * Windows 10 Pro 1909 64-bit
            1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #2000641 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      I’ll take “If that don’t beat all” for $2,000, Alex.

      I updated my 1903 VM to 18362.418 (first October cumulative update) and rebooted.

      Then I set feature deferral to 365 and rebooted.

      And the %$#@! “Choose when updates are installed” section is there!


      What?

      • #2000644 Reply

        PKCano
        Da Boss

        You got the earlier one.
        You need KB4522355 released 10/23 Build  18362.449
        And don’t forget the SSU KB4525419

    • #2000783 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      To add to the mystery… when I changed quality update deferral to 10 days, the pane disappeared.

      • #2000786 Reply

        PKCano
        Da Boss

        In Build 18362.449 the pane doesn’t disappear.
        The fix is in KB4522355, the 10/23 CU

        • #2000799 Reply

          woody
          Da Boss

          I understand… but in .418 the pane DOES appear, at least on my machine, with feature update nonzero and quality update zero. Multiple reboots.

    • #2000803 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      I just manually installed the SSU and KB4522355, and the pane does appear, as it should. (I couldn’t get “Download and install now” to work – clicking on it didn’t install KB 4522355. No idea why.)

       

      • #2000898 Reply

        PKCano
        Da Boss

        Your “before the disappearance” setting was probably SAC, not SAC (Targeted).
        Those settings are still there in the Registry (even though they were not showing in the GUI).
        SAC (Targeted) allowed those patches released between Patch Tuesdays (previously called “Previews,” or optional or non-security).
        SAC only allowed the Patch Tuesday Security CUs (Quality updates).
        KB4522355 was an OOB update, not a Patch Tues Security update.

        It is my GUESS that is why you didn’t get KB4522355 (maybe the metadata was different).
        @abbodi86 would know – I’m only guessing.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #2000913 Reply

          woody
          Da Boss

          Makes sense – but this is on an ultra-clean, installed from scratch 1909 VM.

          Still scratching my head.

          • #2000930 Reply

            PKCano
            Da Boss

            Is the Build number the same for 1903 and 1909? You show Build 18362.449 which is the same as my 1903 Build.

            • #2000967 Reply

              woody
              Da Boss

              I’m running 1903. The build number goes up by one for 1909 – 18363 for 1909. This same update in 1909 should show build 18363.449.

              (That also explains why folks running 1909 haven’t seen the change, if they haven’t installed the “optional” second cumulative update for October.)

              • This reply was modified 5 days ago by  woody.
        • #2000946 Reply

          abbodi86
          AskWoody_MVP

          OptionalInstall cumulative updates depend on certain factors before they get offered
          telemetry level, compatibily appraiser status, deferral settings

          2 users thanked author for this post.

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