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  • I guess it's a good thing I don't use Windows 10 (yet again)… [nVidia]

    Posted on Ascaris Comment on the AskWoody Lounge

    Home Forums Outside the box Rants I guess it's a good thing I don't use Windows 10 (yet again)… [nVidia]

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      • #2170032 Reply
        Ascaris
        AskWoody_MVP

        I was playing around with my nVidia settings in Linux, and I wanted to check something over on the Windows side, so I booted my G3 into its vestigial Windows 10 installation.  I’d never bothered to install the nVidia drivers… I just used the Intel integrated graphics, as it’s more than sufficient for the few minutes of poking around I typically do in Windows before starting to feel queasy and quickly going back to where I belong.  In this case, though, I wanted to check out something in the nVidia settings program.

        I grabbed the drivers from the nVidia site (what a pain compared to just opening the driver manager and clicking the radio button for the newest driver), and after it was installed, I performed the customary reboot and looked for the nVidia settings program.  It was not there… the icon in the system tray had no actual function but to sit there and be green.  The only option available was to exit!

        After a bit, something told me that the nVidia settings program was missing, but it was available from the Microsoft Store.  Well, that’s a no-go; I don’t have a Microsoft Store on this PC, and even if I did, there’s no way I’d ever use it for anything, ever.  That goes double if it would require getting a MS account and signing in, which I am sure it does.

        I searched about the issue, and I discovered that MS has demanded that the nVidia settings program be distributed exclusively through the MS store, and nVidia apparently can’t or won’t tell them what they should be told about that.

        So, if I was to lower myself to use Windows 10, I would not be able to access the settings program for my video card unless I was willing to kiss Microsoft’s ring to get it.

        Windows just keeps getting worse and worse.  I thought it was bad when Windows 10 landed in 2015… enough so that I began my migration to Linux that same year, effectively ending my 25 year run of running Microsoft Windows (on top of MS-DOS in the first five) as my sole OS.  Even though the MS cheerleaders keep talking about how improved Windows 10 is, it’s farther from what I am willing to accept now than it was nearly five years ago.  The trivial improvements that give consumers slightly more control over updates (but still far less than what they had with any previous Windows version) don’t outweigh the things like this.  I haven’t thought about going back, but if I was, I’d have scuttled that plan as soon as I saw how bad Windows truly is at this point.

        None of this is a surprise.  I’ve been saying for some time that this is all going to get worse, not better, as the market share of Windows 10 continues to surpass the actually usable versions of Windows.  All of this pain and suffering MS has inflicted since 2015 has been them being nice to try to get people to let themselves be corralled into Windows 10.  After Windows 7’s numbers become a triviality, it’s “no more Mr. Nice Guy.”  If what we’ve seen is them being nice, I don’t want to see what “no more Mr. Nice Guy” looks like.

        This is the kinder, gentler Microsoft now.  Abandon hope, all ye who enter here.

         

        Group "L" (KDE Neon User Edition 5.18.4).

        8 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2170050 Reply
        jabeattyauditor
        AskWoody Lounger

        One question: how is nVidia’s stupid decision to use the Microsoft Store for Control Panel distribution the fault of Microsoft or Windows 10?

        They could just allow it to be downloaded from their otherwise-useful website.

        I don’t like the Store, but I think you’re smacking the wrong company on this one.

        • #2170065 Reply
          jabeattyauditor
          AskWoody Lounger

          One question: how is nVidia’s stupid decision to use the Microsoft Store for Control Panel distribution the fault of Microsoft or Windows 10?

          I’m apparently dead-wrong on this one – see post 2170060 below for the correct info.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #2170085 Reply
          Rick Corbett
          AskWoody_MVP

          You may have missed the point @ascaris made:

          MS has demanded that the nVidia settings program be distributed exclusively through the MS store

          If it was an MS demand and it’s your choice not to use the Store (or even have the Store installed) then you’re stuck…

      • #2170058 Reply
        JohnW
        AskWoody Plus

        I don’t quite understand how Microsoft could “demand” that nVidia use the store, unless it is related to some sort of code signing thingy.

        But that is an otherwise disturbing trend…

        Glad the only PC here that runs nVidia is still running Windows 7 Pro (Semper Fi). 🙂

      • #2170059 Reply
        Grond
        AskWoody Plus

        nVidia’s drivers are definitely available for download from their company website. Pick your card model, OS, etc., and they are right there.

        Windows 10 Pro x64 v1909 Desktop PC

        • #2170123 Reply
          Ascaris
          AskWoody_MVP

          Yes, and the settings application is not included with them.

          Group "L" (KDE Neon User Edition 5.18.4).

      • #2170060 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        Nvidia says that Microsoft is forcing them to do this.  https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/4733/~/nvidia-control-panel-windows-store-app

        Intel has a well written FAQ about DCH drivers, the only graphics drivers for Windows 10 considered non-legacy, and discourages the use of what they call legacy drivers.  They also use only the store for the control panel with the DCH driver.  https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000031275/graphics-drivers.html

        In the past, before 2016, using the store required an account.  This is not true now, most apps if they are free can be used and installed from the store without an account.  Store apps by default are auto updated, but there are settings to adjust that.

        For now it is still often possible to use a non-DCH driver, that may depend on the exact chipset.

        5 users thanked author for this post.
        • #2170064 Reply
          jabeattyauditor
          AskWoody Lounger

          Nvidia says that Microsoft is forcing them to do this.

          Thank you for the very specific information; I wouldn’t have thought it possible for Microsoft to enforce this.

      • #2170091 Reply
        JohnW
        AskWoody Plus

        If you have standard vs. DCH drivers from nVidia, you can disregard the issue. It’s for DCH drivers only…

        NVIDIA DCH/Standard Display Drivers for Windows 10 FAQ

        https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/4777/

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #2170124 Reply
          Ascaris
          AskWoody_MVP

          The FAQ says that even with the non-DCH drivers, the only way to get the settings application is to manually download it from the MS store.  If you use the DCH driver, it is supposed to automatically install without the user having to do anything.  If the particular Windows 10 installation has no Microsoft Store, however… it does not work.  It opens the link in Firefox, which doesn’t know how to handle the link, since there is no handler present.

          Group "L" (KDE Neon User Edition 5.18.4).

          • #2173017 Reply
            Ascaris
            AskWoody_MVP

            As I mentioned in a post below this one, this bit of info turns out not to be the case.  At least for now, the nVidia control panel is installed by the non-DCH driver, even though it had said it would require manual installation from the MS store.  I

            Group "L" (KDE Neon User Edition 5.18.4).

      • #2170092 Reply
        b
        AskWoody Plus

        Well, that’s a no-go; I don’t have a Microsoft Store on this PC, and even if I did, there’s no way I’d ever use it for anything, ever.

        Please explain why you make that choice.

        Windows 10 Pro Version 2004: Group ASAP (chump/pioneer)

        • #2170127 Reply
          Ascaris
          AskWoody_MVP

          Well, that’s a no-go; I don’t have a Microsoft Store on this PC, and even if I did, there’s no way I’d ever use it for anything, ever.

          Please explain why you make that choice.

          MS said I was not allowed to remove it, so I removed it, along with all the other “apps.”  Not only do apps belong on phones, but there’s also the bit where if someone tells me I can’t remove something from my own PC, I get a little testy.  I removed IE from Windows 98SE for the same reason back in the day using Mozilla’s Revenge (replacing the default merged IE/explorer.exe with the Explorer from 95 OSR2, which was what I had upgraded from, so I had it handy).  I never used IE when I ran 95 OSR2, but I didn’t feel compelled to eradicate it from my PC.  MS made it mandatory with 98, so of course it had to go.

          If I didn’t need it to manually install Windows Updates, I would have done the same in XP.  I eliminated all the Metro/Modern/TIFKAM apps from Win 8.1 also, and used Metro Killer to make sure that nothing in the Metro style ever darkened my doorstep. I used third-party software to handle the wifi and bluetooth stuff, and for things like user setup and the like, it’s possible to use MMC snapins rather than the Metro bits.  Everything else I needed was still present in Control Panel, as MS hadn’t yet gotten around to gutting it and replacing it with the inferior Settings phone app.

          Group "L" (KDE Neon User Edition 5.18.4).

          • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by Ascaris.
          3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2170148 Reply
        CADesertRat
        AskWoody Plus

        Not sure I completely understand your dilemma as I have Nvidia control panel if that is what you are referring to by “settings” and I am on 1903 Pro.

        NVIDIA-CP

        Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does 🙂
        4 Win 10 Pro at 1909 (3 Desktops, 1 Laptop).

        Attachments:
        • #2173016 Reply
          Ascaris
          AskWoody_MVP

          Indeed, you are correct.  I tried this, and it did work.

          The reason I did not at first was that the nVidia FAQ that explained how MS was making them do it this way also said that the non-DCH driver also did not contain the control panel, and that it would have to be manually installed from the MS Store (whereas the DCH driver is supposed to automatically install the driver from the Store).  This appears to be misinformation on nVidia’s part, as the control panel is installed by the most recent non-DCH driver.  I suppose that’s the “official” line for Microsoft’s benefit.

          Group "L" (KDE Neon User Edition 5.18.4).

      • #2170155 Reply
        Alex5723
        AskWoody Plus

        I searched about the issue, and I discovered that MS has demanded that the nVidia settings program be distributed exclusively through the MS store, and nVidia apparently can’t or won’t tell them what they should be told about that

        I have Windows 10 1903 and I do regular updates for my Nvidia 1050ti directly from Nvidia site.
        No Microsoft Store nor Microsoft account needed.
        For Windows 10 you have to choose desktop or laptop DCH drivers. .inf is dead (the same goes for Intel GPU drivers, only DCH).

        I have both Intel and Nvidia control panels.

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        1 user thanked author for this post.
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