News, tips, advice, support for Windows, Office, PCs & more
Home icon Home icon Home icon Email icon RSS icon

We're community supported and proud of it!

  • “Install Windows 11 on unsupported hardware”—how do I count the ways?

    Home » Forums » AskWoody support » Windows » Windows 11 » Hardware questions relating to Windows 11 » “Install Windows 11 on unsupported hardware”—how do I count the ways?

    • This topic has 11 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 1 month ago.
    Author
    Topic
    #2396696

    Create fresh drive image(s) before making system changes/Windows updates, in case you need to start over!

    I have posted I think I can deal with Windows 11, How to upgrade to Windows 11 on unsupported hardware, Minor hiccups with Windows 11 Pro.

    Windows RTM has come and gone; the first Patch Tuesday after Windows 11 RTM has come and gone. All the pre-RTM speculation about Windows 11 is now moot. As for Microsoft’s Windows 11 reported hardware requirements, it has become increasingly obvious that they can be regarded more as a policy statement. They can be bypassed if one is so inclined.

    Yes, I did have some minor hiccups October 4, and the following:

    Although Windows Defender seemed to be there to some extent, on selecting Windows Security in the Settings, I just got a blank window, so no way to adjust it or start a scan or anything like that. It seems that “my” PC not meeting Microsoft’s W11 security requirements means I cannot run Windows security in the usual (W10-like) way.

    To which I replied:

    I haven’t used the Defender UI in years. I consider security scans part of routine maintenance, and as such I have them set up in Task Scheduler. After reading your post, I checked Settings and got the same results. However, checking Task Scheduler scheduled task for Defender, my daily scan, my weekly full scan, have completed successfully. As Microsoft Defender has some additional duties under the Trusted Platform Module, that may explain why it isn’t fully available in Settings. I’m satisfied that it is running as it should based on the Task Scheduler results.

    But, that was followed with

    Before finally abandoning this experiment I decided to perform an offline W11 “Reset” (I could still reach the Reset window in the Settings app). After this “Reset” completed W11 looked in much better shape. (The “Reset” took account of the Patch Tuesday updates – no further update occurred when I connected online again.) I can now see the Windows Security settings, the Settings app does not lock up and more Settings app windows are now visible, and program installers do not cause network connection failure. The only failure I saw so far was that the Edge browser was now broken (it had been OK previously). I ran an offline Edge installer and this re-installed/fixed it. So there may be some more life in this experiment after all.

    Yesterday (October 18) I created a fresh drive image of Windows 11 Pro OS partition, then restored Windows 10 Pro to that partition, and ran my upgrade method on it again using the install.wim file from a freshly downloaded Windows 11 ISO.  It still works just fine.  Rather than go through my customizations all over again, I restored the image of Windows 11 Pro I had created as backup.

    As for the Windows 11 UI, StartAllBack is one alternative.

    StartAllBack0-1

    StartAllBack1-1

    StartAllBack2

    But my point is that upgrading on unsupported hardware is still a thing.  Microsoft has not closed all the loopholes in their stated hardware requirements policy.  Indeed, they have posted their own bypass techniques, as have many others on the internet.  As far as I can tell, my method is still the simplest and most straightforward.

    If you don’t want to upgrade, by all means, don’t.  On the other hand, if you do want to upgrade, don’t ignore that first red line in my signature; that is an absolute must.  If creating drive images is too much effort or too complicated, you’re not ready to try the upgrade on unsupported hardware.

    Create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates, in case you need to start over!
    "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns
    "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    Viewing 3 reply threads
    Author
    Replies
    • #2396769

      IM not so HO, this is going to be like the free upgrade from windows 7 to Windows 10 that was supposed to end and everyone at Microsoft turned a blind eye.

      I think the threaten to not patch the device is more about a real promise not to fix performance bugs on unsupported hardware. They will take the time and effort to fix bugs on processors they support, they won’t on anything that isn’t official.

      Susan Bradley Patch Lady

      • #2396816

        I think the threaten to not patch the device is more about a real promise not to fix performance bugs on unsupported hardware. They will take the time and effort to fix bugs on processors they support, they won’t on anything that isn’t official.

        I don’t disagree, but there’s some major coding to be done in the HAL to start blocking unsupported hardware that does indeed run without issue.  My MB/CPU combination is 2013 vintage, yet needed no driver upgrades in order to run Windows 11 as effortlessly as it runs Windows 10.

        After I upgraded to Windows 11, my Intel Driver Support Assistant updated a Bluetooth/Wireless card I recently installed because the chipset is from Intel.  The driver is dated 8/9/2021.  Going through Device Manager, my drivers are either manufacturer specific dating from mid-2020 or mid 2021, or generic Microsoft drivers from 2006.  My Intel HD Graphics 4600 driver is dated 11/4/2020.

        My CPU is quite obviously not having any issues running Windows 11, which makes me curious as to what lengths Microsoft might go to, to cripple a system that works.  If some future update has a bug that affects my system, I’ll just restore a drive image.  If Microsoft were somehow able to cripple my Windows 11 installation, Windows 10 is only three minutes and ten seconds away.

        I’m not herding IT cats for a business large or small.  I’m just an individual doing some video/audio editing from time to time, curating my collection of photos, watching YouTube videos and playing Windows 7 Solitaire from time to time.  I’ll update hardware on my own timeline, not Microsoft’s.

        Create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates, in case you need to start over!
        "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns
        "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware

    • #2396856

      but there’s some major coding to be done in the HAL to start blocking unsupported hardware that does indeed run without issue

      Remember WGA ? It didn’t need some major coding to be done in the HAL..
      Microsoft can run its compatibility tool in the background with every CU.

      • #2396888

        Remember WGA ? It didn’t need some major coding to be done in the HAL.. Microsoft can run its compatibility tool in the background with every CU.

        More FUD, @alex5723?  I was vaccinated a couple of decades ago, and remain immune to FUD.  Even Microsoft doesn’t know what Microsoft is gonna do, and I have a library of drive images.

        There is always a workaround—Windows is code, after all.  The only workaround I haven’t yet found is how to install 64-bit Windows on 32-bit hardware

        Create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates, in case you need to start over!
        "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns
        "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware

    • #2396920

      here is always a workaround—Windows is code, after all.

      Thanks. I didn’t know that Windows OS is open source where you can change code and recompile.

      • #2396991

        Thanks. I didn’t know that Windows OS is open source where you can change code and recompile.

        No one is talking about re-writing the kernel, @Alex5723.

        Updating to Windows 11 Version 21H2 (OS Build 22000.194) on my 2008 vintage Intel® Core™2 Duo Processor E8400 based HP Compaq 8000 Elite USDT PC test system running Windows 10 21H1 was possible using only the Windows 11 RTM ISO file from Microsoft and Notepad++ v7.9.5 as a binary editor.

        Notepad++ v7.9.5.  Resource Hacker, a freeware tool I’ve used for years, can open .dll files in editable format, then recompile the edited .dll file for use in Windows.  I had a custom imageres.dll file for Windows XP for desktop and icon personalizations.  I kept a copy in my Documents folder because a Service Pack (and some updates) would overwrite it.  After the Service Pack, I would copy it back into the Windows folder.

        StartAllBack completely eliminates the Windows 11 UI (screenshots in the OP) in which Microsoft has such great pride, allows for customizing File Explorer and the Right-click context menu as well. It’s all code, too.

        So yes, there is always a workaround.

        Create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates, in case you need to start over!
        "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns
        "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware

      • #2397032

        I think Alex is correct. I think users should not do that 😉

        Windows EULA: Restrictions:
        (see the page title “New page”, how hilarious 😁 )

        2-c-IV:
        work around any technical restrictions or limitations in the software

        2-c-VI:
        reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the software, or attempt to do so, except and only to the extent that the foregoing restriction is (a) permitted by applicable law; (b) permitted by licensing terms governing the use of open-source components that may be included with the software; or (c) required to debug changes to any libraries licensed under the GNU Lesser General Public License which are included with and linked to by the software;

        Im not trying to defend Microsoft here. I know EULA is draconian contract, which basically forbids every tweaking.
        But trying to run Windows 11 on unsupported HW is working around technical restrictions. And StartAllBack is the same thing. Its changing the fundaments. Why do people install W11 and then chnage the Start menu back? Its agains the EULA and against common sense too.
        Even more, if something bad happens to your PC, you could end with warranty not accepted, because you did unathorized changes to the system.

        If you workaround technical restrictions and run on unsupported HW plus using those tweaks, you are asking for crashes and trouble. Only technically capable users should do that.

        Alex and Bbearren are advanced users. They are good at it, but ordinary users should not do that, they could lose their data..

        Dell Latitude E6530, Intel Core i5 @ 2.6 GHz, 4GB RAM, W10 20H2 Enterprise

        HAL3000, AMD Athlon 200GE @ 3,4 GHz, 8GB RAM, Fedora 29

        PRUSA i3 MK3S+

        • This reply was modified 1 month ago by doriel. Reason: oh grammar
        • #2397066

          Even more, if something bad happens to your PC, you could end with warranty not accepted, because you did unathorized changes to the system.

          There is nothing in my procedure that can damage my PC.  I have a library of drive images for all other happenstance, and my PC is DIY, eight years old, and I provide my own support and warranty service.

          If you workaround technical restrictions and run on unsupported HW plus using those tweaks, you are asking for crashes and trouble. Only technically capable users should do that.



          @doriel
          , as I’ve said a couple of times, I’m not advocating that anyone, whether technically capable or not, should do this.  I’m pointing out that it can be done.  As for the rest, Microsoft has published their own workaround:

          Microsoft recommends against installing Windows 11 on a device that does not meet the Windows 11 minimum system requirements. If you choose to install Windows 11 on a device that does not meet these requirements, and you acknowledge and understand the risks, you can create the following registry key values and bypass the check for TPM 2.0 (at least TPM 1.2 is required) and the CPU family and model.

          Registry Key: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\Setup\MoSetup

          Name: AllowUpgradesWithUnsupportedTPMOrCPU

          Type: REG_DWORD

          Value: 1

          And StartAllBack is the same thing. Its changing the fundaments. Why do people install W11 and then chnage the Start menu back?

          StartIsBack (publisher of StartAllBack) has been around since Windows 8’s introduction and horrible Start Menu, to get rid of Microsoft’s Start Menu.  They are still in business for the same reason, to get rid of Microsoft’s Start Menu.  Windows 11’s Start Menu was the big deterrent to my upgrading to it, but I had confidence that the folks at StartIsBack would have something waiting in the wings, and they did.

          Again, I am not advocating that anyone upgrade to Windows 11 on unsupported hardware, I’m illustrating that it is indeed possible.  I’m also finding out (and reporting on) the fact that Windows 11, stripped of the terrible Start Menu, is only a very minor upgrade over Windows 10 21H1.

          For now, I’m going to keep running it, but if I change my mind in the future, I’m only a little over three minutes away from running Windows 10 w1H1 again.

          Create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates, in case you need to start over!
          "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns
          "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware

    • #2397039

      Why do people install W11 and then change the Start menu back? Its against the EULA and against common sense too.

      I agree with the first bit about the EULA… but not the second bit about common sense. Quite the opposite. 🙂

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2397040

        I meant this: the new start menu is the most visible change for Windows. If they dont want new start menu, why they install the new system?

        Dell Latitude E6530, Intel Core i5 @ 2.6 GHz, 4GB RAM, W10 20H2 Enterprise

        HAL3000, AMD Athlon 200GE @ 3,4 GHz, 8GB RAM, Fedora 29

        PRUSA i3 MK3S+

        • #2397072

          If they dont want new start menu, why they install the new system?

          Primarily to get a look “under the hood” to see if there were any other striking improvements.  After getting rid of that sucks-out-loud Start Menu (which I had confidence could be done), I’m finding that there are no other big changes; it is a very minor upgrade over Windows 10 21H1.

          As far as I’m concerned, Windows 11 is an attempt to stimulate new PC/laptop sales and “enforce” stronger security measures which are, in my view, unnecessary for anyone not running a business or riding herd on a bunch of other users.

          Create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates, in case you need to start over!
          "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns
          "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware

          1 user thanked author for this post.
    Viewing 3 reply threads
    Reply To: “Install Windows 11 on unsupported hardware”—how do I count the ways?

    You can use BBCodes to format your content.
    Your account can't use Advanced BBCodes, they will be stripped before saving.