• Is using VPN a good idea?

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    #2562411

    I have been seeing more ads for VPN for home users with the top 3 vendors offering very competitive pricing.

    With all the stuff going on with hacks etc. now a days of computers and ISP’s themselves, would it be a good idea to subscribe to one?

    Seems simple enough. Any reported issues created by installing a VPN application?

    Any issues reported with VPN companies being a problem themselves?

    Windows 10 Pro x64 v22H2 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 (RIP)
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    • #2562421

      You may want to read this article which lays out advantages, disadvantages, and limitations fairly clearly:
      https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/what-is-a-vpn-and-why-you-need-one

      Read the entire article.

      Remember that you may not need a VPN at all.

      On permanent hiatus {with backup and coffee}
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    • #2562434

      The AskWoody topic My encounter with Verizon at  https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/my-encounter-with-verizon/   has an extensive discussion of the benefits of using a VPN.

      We find that using a VPN is particularly useful when connecting to the internet via WiFi – particularly a “guest” network.

    • #2562443

      Do not use a free vpn, you are the product.

      Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #2562461
    • #2562530

      We don’t use a VPN and haven’t had any problems here there or anywhere using the internet. Personally I don’t see a need for a VPN on a personal level or for business.

      MacOS, iOS, iPadOS, and SOS at times.

    • #2563596

      VPN’s are useful for a number of reasons. Most internet providers throttle your connection during peak connection times etc. I have found my internet provider cannot throttle my connection when I am using a VPN. This gives me much faster download speeds especially on large files in most cases. The download speed depends on the server your downloading from though.
      If you do decide to use a VPN choose one that doesn’t keep logs. This is for your protection. Read the reviews carefully.

      • #2563634

        A VPN uses a path through your ISP and if they are going to throttle you then it will also affect a download on the VPN.
        The VPN provider is not likely to provide very high bandwidth because they have to buy bandwidth and unless you are paying for it…

        cheers, Paul

        • #2563648

          Just ran a Xfinity speed test routed from Woodstock Georgia through our VPN’s server located in New York City.

          Results:

          • Download speed – 360.3 Mbps
          • Upload speed – 11.0 Mbps
          • Latency – 48 ms
          • Protocol – IPv4
          • Location of Xfinity host – Woodstock Georgia (total distance traveled greater than 900 miles)

          Ran second test routed from Woodstock Georgia via our VPN’s Tokyo server.

          Results:

          • Download speed – 374.1 Mbps
          • Upload Speed – 1.9 Mbps
          • Latency – 332 ms
          • Protocol – IPv4
          • Distance – 6,755 miles / 10,871 km

          Link   https://speedtest.xfinity.com/

           

    • #2563655

      @Tex265:

      How are the suggestions working for you?

      On permanent hiatus {with backup and coffee}
      offline▸ Win10Pro 2004.19041.572 x64 i3-3220 RAM8GB HDD Firefox83.0b3 WindowsDefender
      offline▸ Acer TravelMate P215-52 RAM8GB Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1265 x64 i5-10210U SSD Firefox106.0 MicrosoftDefender
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    • #2567976

      Hello everyone, it was recommended to me NordVPN can anyone tell me its advantages, in general, how does it differ from others

      • #2568030

        Do you use a purchased Antivirus/Internet Security suite such as ESET or Norton? Most of the security suite apps have a VPN service as part of the subscription.
        I have the ESET security suite and love the app’s VPN service. The VPN service engages automatically when you select a banking, merchandise, or any site you add to the VPN list. No VPN for normal surfing, but VPN for business and personal transactions.

        IMO I think it is best to have some sites thru the VPN servers and some sites without VPN and be easy to select which sites go in what group.

        HTH, Dana:))

      • #2568181

        Why do you need a VPN?
        Do you connect to work/home when on the road? if not you probably don’t need a VPN.

        cheers, Paul

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        PFC
      • #2568240

        Ensuring privacy: NordVPN allows you to encrypt your internet connection and protect your data from eavesdropping. This is especially important when you are connected to untrusted or open Wi-Fi networks, such as public Wi-Fi in cafes, airports or hotels.

    • #2568218

      All of our internet traffic moves via VPNs.

      It is encrypted between our computers and the VPN provider’s servers and its point of origin is masked depending on which of the thousands of servers we select to route out traffic through. We also have the option of routing our traffic through multiple servers.

      We do not need our internet service provider or others gaining access to our traffic such as financial transactions, banking activity, medical records, confidential communications, raw data feeds, telephone conversations, etc.

      We can also gain access to content that may not be available in our home country and gain better pricing when shopping by searching for items in different regional markets.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
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    • #2568347

      Ensuring privacy

      Nope. the VPN provider knows where you’ve been and has to give the information to law enforcement if required.

      If you use HTTPS connections (browsers effectively force this) then everything is encrypted. The only information that leaks is destination and that only leaks to your ISP (as it does to the VPN provider).

      A VPN is good if you often use “free” wifi when on the road for business, but for occasional personal use I see no particular advantage.

      cheers, Paul

    • #2568404

      Paul T wrote, “… the VPN provider knows where you’ve been and has to give the information to law enforcement if required.”

      1. The amount and kind of information given to law enforcement by a VPN is governed by the country / state where it is located. Look at the privacy laws of Switzerland, Norway, Panama, etc.
      2. If the VPN does not retain the information on its servers, it has nothing to give.
      • #2568423

        The amount and kind of information given to law enforcement by a VPN is governed by the country / state where it is located. Look at the privacy laws of Switzerland, Norway, Panama, etc.

        Many VPNs have foreign locales as their headquarters, and they will often advertise this fact, claiming that the strict privacy laws of their official country of residence protect them from warrants. However, this is very much not the case.

        This is because of something few privacy companies seem willing to admit, namely that countries talk to each other and are often more than happy to help each other out with simple requests.

        What Do VPNs Share with Law Enforcement?

        “However, if a court order were issued according to laws and regulations, if it were legally binding under the jurisdiction that we operate in, and if the court were to reject our appeal, then there would be no other option but to comply. The same applies to all existing VPN companies if they operate legally. In fact, the same applies to all companies in the world,” NordVPN said.

        “Some people think that VPNs can somehow operate above the law and no matter what, they will never comply with lawful requests issued by a court. It simply isn’t accurate,” the company added. “Truly legitimate and reputable companies will always operate within the law. That is important to understand.”

        “NordVPN operates under the jurisdiction of Panama and will only comply with requests from foreign governments and law enforcement agencies if these requests are delivered according to laws and regulations.”

        NordVPN: Actually, We Do Comply With Law Enforcement Data Requests

        Law enforcement gained access to the servers of DoubleVPN and seized personal information, logs, and statistics kept by DoubleVPN about all of its customers.

        Global police shut down VPN service favored by cybercriminals

        Windows 11 Pro version 22H2 build 22621.2361 + Microsoft 365 + Edge

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        • #2568432

          b

          A VPN can only turn over information to law enforcement that is stored on its servers.  If a VPN does not retain a record of a customer’s activity there is nothing to turn over other than the fact that the user has an account.

          That being said, it is possible that the VPN may have to retain and turnover data that is collected after a jurisdiction imitates enforcement activity.

          According to Runbox,

          • All your Runbox email is privacy protected because our servers are located in Norway, and Runbox strictly adheres to the Norwegian privacy legislation.
          • Runbox protects your data against disclosure because we require a court order before any data can be disclosed.
          • Any foreign nation requesting disclosure of data must send a formal request via diplomatic channels to Norwegian authorities, to which Runbox responds with a request for a court order.
          • Norwegian surveillance authorities are not allowed to access transferred eletronic messages without a court order.
          • Under Norwegian legislation, Runbox is ordinarily not required to retain any traffic logs, and is permitted to delete your data if you ask us to.

          https://runbox.com/why-runbox/privacy-protection/runbox-norway-important/

          The Norwegian privacy laws are mirrored  in other jurisdictions including Switzerland and Panama.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #2568439

            b

            A VPN can only turn over information to law enforcement that is stored on its servers. If a VPN does not retain a record of a customer’s activity there is nothing to turn over other than the fact that the user has an account.

            I didn’t comment on your previous “no-logs” point.

            That being said, it is possible that the VPN may have to retain and turnover data that is collected after a jurisdiction imitates enforcement activity.

            … wherever it’s based.

            (imitates?)

            According to Runbox,

            I didn’t comment on email services either, because this thread is about VPNs.

            Windows 11 Pro version 22H2 build 22621.2361 + Microsoft 365 + Edge

            • #2568446

              b

              VPNs are governed by the same privacy laws as email service providers.

              Runbox is simply providing a summery how Norwegian law deals with data stored on servers located within Norway.

    • #2568410

      Hello, it is me again.  I have been following this discussion and seem to be more confused than before.

      I also found out that Firefox now uses Secure DNS (DNS over Https) utilizing Cloudflare.

      Can someone pls advise what happens, and who can see/record what in the following chain of transmission:

      A person uses Firefox with Secure DNS set to max (always use Cloudflare) and set to always utilize Https and selects to go to askwoody.com

      1. What does the normal ISP (say Comcast), Cloudflare, askwoody.com, and anyone else in the chain see and/or record?
      2. What changes if a quality VPN is utilized?
      3. For both above, what additionally gets sent or recorded as you move around within an internet site as the pages change the url? (eg: on some financial sites even take you to a different area/separate page).
      Windows 10 Pro x64 v22H2 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 (RIP)
      • #2568546
        1. The ISP sees the IP address(es) your traffic goes to. Using “non secure” DNS, the DNS provider can see the server portion of URLs you visit.
        2. Nothing.
        3. The same as 1 & 2 above.

        Secure DNS is not about privacy, it’s about security of the returned information to prevent DNS attacks.

        Unless you are a business requiring additional security or a business user on the road, there is little benefit in a VPN. It does not stop people finding out where you’ve been because they can seize your computer and force you to give up your passwords.

        Save your money, encrypt your hard disk, use a good password, backup and be less paranoid – you’ll be happier.

        cheers, Paul

        • #2568611

          Thanks for the info.  I’m more interested in learning/understanding how the internet works vs being paranoid about it.

          With that in mind, I thought a VPN replaced the ISP?

          I thought secure DNS encrypted the IP address so it couldn’t be observed/hacked?  What role is Cloudflare playing here?

          What’s the difference between seeing an IP Address, and seeing the Server portion of the URL?

          Breaking this request flow down step by step, who each player in the chain is, what they do, what they see/act upon would be very helpful.

          Windows 10 Pro x64 v22H2 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 (RIP)
    • #2568437

      All your Runbox email is privacy protected because our servers are located in Norway, and Runbox strictly adheres to the Norwegian privacy legislation.

      That is a joke.

      Norway is part of 9-eyes which means that every single bit of data encrypted or not is shared with spying services of the other 13-eyes countries.

      When you choose your VPN server do you check that it isn’t located or forwards your data vis a 14-eyes server..?

      Want to secure your data and privacy ? use TOR browser.

      • #2568447

        Alex

        There are VPNs that are hosted by countries that are not parties to the 5-Eyes, 9-Eyes, or 14-Eyes agreements.

        • #2568463

          And what are we doing that we feel that we don’t want the country we live in to be able to monitor?  I’m a law abiding citizen.  I want the bad guys stopped.  As long as there are means for bad guys to avoid monitoring traffic we end up with CALPers the largest retirement database getting popped for identity theft (see this Monday’s newsletter for more details)

           

          Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #2568490

            Susan

            Our concern isn’t that we do not want the country we live in to be able to monitor traffic of bad guys and girls. We do.  And, I anticipate that our intelligence and law enforcement agencies have the ability to penetrate VPN data flows and encryption when they want to.

            Our concern is three-fold:

            1. We want to make it as difficult as possible for our ISP and nongovernmental internet entities to harvest information from our internet traffic.
            2. We are involved in the receipt, generation, and sharing of sensitive information that is transmitted on a need-to-know basis. Someone (including hostile governments) scrapping data from the internet is outside of our need-to-know community.
            3. From time-to-time we connect to the internet via public WiFi connections and want to minimize the risk that people sharing the systems can gain access to our traffic.

            We are not concerned about our government gaining access to our data.

            But we do travel overseas and frequently communicate with people in places that are not as sensitive to personal freedom/communications as our host country. Thus, the need to use a VPN and/or the Tor Browser to provide a degree of protection.

            • #2568496

              Unless the VPN is set up from your server you are still having to trust in the business processes of another vendor.

              Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

    • #2568448

      Alex

      There are VPNs that are hosted by countries that are not parties to the 5-Eyes, 9-Eyes, or 14-Eyes agreements.

      These are the primary VPN servers but these servers are forwarding requests to other VPN servers that be installed on 14-eyes countries.

    • #2568459

      Alex

      Are you saying that if we choose to route our internet traffic via a VPN’s server in Argentina that the VPN routes the traffic through servers in other countries along the way and that they store our data on each of the intermediate servers?

      And if the data is encrypted how does a law enforcement agency know what to ask for in the first place?

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2568466

        Yes, that what I am saying.
        You can check it yourself. run Tracert to any server ip / url.
        Your IP which is tried to your PC / you, isn’t encrypted.

      • #2568469

        When data is in transit it often can be intercepted.  Encryption is not a panacea.

        Unless you’ve checked exactly how that VPN server is working, there’s a lot of “trust in the process” that we have to do.  Unless you have the VPN service hosted on your physical servers, you really have to trust the reputation of the company you are doing business with.

        Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

        2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #2568541

      Alex

      There are VPNs that are hosted by countries that are not parties to the 5-Eyes, 9-Eyes, or 14-Eyes agreements.

      As I explained, you don’t control the servers ‘hops’ from your initial VPN server to your destination server.
      Your request from first VPN server doesn’t reach destination server directly but passes tens of servers until reaching destination.

      Run CMD tracert to any address and see how many servers/IPs your request pass through.

      If you want to reach a US site you surly will use US server on the way.

    • #2568554

      what additionally gets sent or recorded

      In addition to your IP address you are sending data about the browser you use, data about the PC you use, location..

      • #2568561

        Your PC does not send additional data when making a DNS request or when setting up the secure (https) connection, so your ISP will not see much about you – although they already know who you are because you have a contract with them and they can easily match your IP with your contract.

        cheers, Paul

    • #2568609

      @Alex5723, and  @Paul T

      Thanks

       

      Windows 10 Pro x64 v22H2 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 (RIP)
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