Is Windows 11 ready? Are we ready?

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ISSUE 19.12 • 2022-03-21 WINDOWS 11 By Susan Bradley We are a few weeks away from an event that most of us in technology consider a bellwether for any
[See the full post at: Is Windows 11 ready? Are we ready?]

Susan Bradley Patch Lady

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Norio, GreatAndPowerfulTech, lmacri, abbodi86, OldMainframeGuy, quickben, WSDKS01, Alex5723

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Not ready for Windows 11. Wonder if I ever will be.

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Charlie, Norio

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There is a third scenario for having a Microsoft account. It may only apply to certain users. That scenario is if at some point your ISP used Microsoft as their e-mail server.

In my case, I have been a customer of Bell Canada’s internet service, now called Bell Fibe internet or something. But when it first rolled out in 1994, it was called Sympatico and the install disk came with the Netscape browser. The domain name was sympatico.ca. I was a first day sign-up and have the ridiculously low customer number to show for that.

Soon enough, Bell turned their e-mail service provisioning over to Microsoft and Hotmail. That meant my sympatico.ca account credentials were automatically a Microsoft account and still are to this day.

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I have two new-ish Windows 11-ready computers in my home.   Both PCs were eligible for Windows 11 upgrades when we were ready.   Last week, my partner’s PC suddenly asked to be restarted to install Windows 11.   The upgrade was never requested and this annoyed me to no end.   Fortunately, I was able to grab a copy of Steve Gibson’s InControl utility which thwarted the upgrade on his PC and will prevent it on my PC.

If anybody can tell me what Microsoft is thinking with Windows 11 I’d love to hear it.   Windows 10 is running great on both of our PCs; why I would want to “upgrade” to a less stable version with less functionality is a mystery to me.

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oldfry, Norio, Cybertooth, Charlie, GreatAndPowerfulTech

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Thank you for reminding me of Steve Gibson and his great utlities!  I hadn’t heard of InControl until now…

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OldMainframeGuy

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Just be sure you understand it puts you in control of upgrades, not updates. You still need to be on top of those however you now do it.

Group A (but Telemetry disabled Tasks and Registry)
Win 11 64 Home portable (keyboard issues not financially viable to repair so now permanently in dock.
'On the hunt' for a new laptop.

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Norio

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I use PowerShell and PSWindowsUpdates to stay on top.  This combination gives me more control than most other methods.

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It definitely sounds like the old GWX.  Guess we can call this the GWXI.

Experience is that marvelous thing that enables you recognize a mistake as soon as you make it again.

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I teach a large number of computer courses to seniors.  One of my classes is about how to buy a computer.  Your column today was the first time I learned that some computers now come with non-expandable motherboards or an SoC.

I plan to recommend to my seniors that they avoid these non-expandable computers.  Is there a simple way to identify them?  What should I tell them to look for, so they can be sure they don’t accidentally end up with a non-expandable motherboard or an SoC.

Gary Cahn

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Charlie

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garycahn wrote:

I plan to recommend to my seniors that they avoid these non-expandable computers

They can be identified by looking at the specs. If the memory is expandable you are OK.

I would not worry about the lack of upgrade, if it has enough memory (16GB) when you buy it it will be fine for the rest of its time.
Disk space may be an issue if you have lots of photos etc, but you need to consider that whan buying.

cheers, Paul

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I wonder how many people will be in same position as me, with a sturdy Win10 desktop that would need to be significantly upgraded to meet the Win11 requirements and unless something fails that cannot be cost effectively replaced or crucial software unsupported, just carry on regardless. Win10 end-of-life support debate going to be as long as Win7 . By the time I have to replace it, maybe the chip shortage has resolved too.

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MHCLV941

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To be fair, I still really dislike Windows 1o, so there’s no love for Windows 11 which only seems to be an even worse version of Win 10.  As far as my clients are concerned, those who’ve been affected by it see it as the malware it is since it just showed up on their computers and then broke something.  Yep, just like a virus, except none of these users clicked on anything!  Luckily, most contacted us immediately and we could roll back.  Those that waited too long had to work through the bugs.  Quickbooks was a commonly affected program, but Intuit has a fix.  Several others had line of business software fail, with no fix or workaround available, which required a drive wipe and reinstall of Windows 10.

I can see no compelling reason to use Windows 11.  There are no game changing features, but there are quite a few “improvements” that make existing features even less usable or desirable.

And although they pulled the ads from explorer, that’s a definite harbinger of evil to come.  Win 10 is a spyware platform even with the massive array of customized settings we deploy, and I suspect Win 11 will elevate the spying and advertising to a whole new level.

 

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AlexEiffel, OldMainframeGuy, oldfry, NaNoNyMouse, wdburt1, Cybertooth, Charlie, GreatAndPowerfulTech

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The author recommends a switch to Apple without mentioning the poor performance of the M1 chip compared to Intel’s latest.  That is a disservice to readers who do heavy weight processing.

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“heavy weight processing” = you have to follow the OS demanded by the vendor of the application.

If all you do is email, watching videos, you can even get away with just an ipad these days.

And if you ARE doing heavy weight processing your vendor is probably recommending that you stay on 10 for now.

 

Susan Bradley Patch Lady

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DLivesInTexas

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Citation(s) needed.

M1 chips have shamed anything and everything from AMD and Intel for the last several years.

The only thing Apple has been caught fabricating lately is the notion that the M1 Ultra outperforms a 3090 which has been proven to be false (and was already a questionable claim to begin with).

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anonymous wrote:

the poor performance of the M1 chip compared to Intel’s latest.

Where do you get the above from? I’ve been a Dell XPS desktop user since 1999 and both my XPS with Windows 8 Pro and my XPS with Windows 10 Pro are quite powerful. I got into Apple a little over three years ago with my first smart phone and then an Apple watch. Now I am currently considering getting an iPad Air tablet. Ordinarily, I would have already bought a new Dell XPS desktop but …..

Anyhow, here’s just one article I read tonight raving about the M1 chip:

https://www.tomsguide.com/news/macbook-pro-m1-benchmarks-are-in-and-they-destroy-intel

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I think because I use the same login for an old machine as well as my new PC, M$ hasn’t even asked me to upgrade and you know what?  I’m not looking to do so either.   lol

 

🙂

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For me personally I’ve decided to reject Windows 11 completely and start a Linux migration plan. Saying that, I don’t expect it to be quick considering that I’ve been using Windows for 25 years. But I have until January 2029 at least (LTSC).

I can’t say the same for work. I’ll need to support it for other users, reluctantly.

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wavy, johnf

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I’m using Windows 11 Enterprise, for the reason that my new Dell Precision workstation came with it installed. Since I manage our patches and automation, both for ourselves and our partners, this is a good time to have another system to test some of that out with. I backed up my previous setup and figured I could give it a go, removing it if it got in my way or was too buggy.

Honestly, it’s mostly like Windows 10, if Microsoft took a look at the MacOS dock and decided the taskbar and start menu should “be a little more like that”. The system is stable. My only two gripes are moving some right-click file/folder actions to graphics instead of words (can’t always tell by the graphic what those are), and that it took some work and a cobbled driver to get my Broadcom USB bluetooth adapter working.

The OS is evolutionary, but not revolutionary. If you have a good Windows 10 system, no reason to upgrade. If you have a Windows 10 Home system, you might not want to (unless you upgrade to Pro to stop being forced into the Microsoft account box). If your new system comes with Windows 11 and its at least Pro, I probably wouldn’t downgrade; I’ve had no show-stopper issues in the ten days I’ve used it.

Specs for the curious:

Core i7-11700

48GB RAM

2x 256GB NVMe SSD, 1x 512GB NVME SSD

nVidia Quadro T600 4GB driving 4 24″ 1080p displays

USB dongles for bluetooth (audio) and a Logitech MX Master 2s mouse

And if it’s noteworthy to anyone doing testing work VMWare Workstation runs on it just fine too, I’m using several different VMs.

We are SysAdmins.
We walk in the wiring closets no others will enter.
We stand on the bridge, and no malware may pass.
We engage in support, we do not retreat.
We live for the LAN.
We die for the LAN.

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Cybertooth

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This is the longest I have ever held off moving (was going to say “upgrading”, but I do not yet consider Windows 11 an upgrade) to the next version of Windows.  This puppy continues to pee on the carpet and poop on the floor, and its owners do not appear to listen to anyone who suffers from its behaviors.

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Microfix, wavy, OldMainframeGuy, Charlie

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Windows 11 does not yet support any Thunderbolt devices that include PCIe Bridge chips such as Sonnet Technologies’ Echo Express SE IIIe and Echo III multi-slot Thunderbolt PCIe expansion chassis. These chassis work fine on the same Thunderbolt 3 and Thunderbolt 4 computers under Windows 10.

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anonymous wrote:

Apple without mentioning the poor performance of the M1 chip compared to Intel’s latest

Nothing out there Intel or AMD can match the latest M1 Max, Pro, Ultra.. performance and power efficiency.

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Susan Bradley wrote:

Is Windows 11 ready? Are we ready?

Yes, and yes (at least I am ready).  I’ve been running Windows 11 (on unsupported hardware) since its release.  I had a couple of minor hiccups that were easily fixed.  My video editing software still works just as well as it works in Windows 10.

I dumped the menu immediately for StartAllBack, which allows quite a bit of tweaking.  I still get updates from Microsoft, their threats of withholding updates notwithstanding.  Everything works quite satisfactorily.  In my view, Windows 11 is a very minor upgrade to Windows 10 21H2 once the crappy menu is scraped off.

Windows 11 has been my daily driver, and I haven’t had any issues beyond those very first minor hiccups.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We were all once "Average Users". We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do to our systems, we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

Computer Specs

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MHCLV941

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Bbearren:

“In my view, Windows 11 is a very minor upgrade to Windows 10 21H2 once the crappy menu is scraped off.“

Respectfully, what part of Windows 11 do you consider an “upgrade” from Windows 10?   I really am looking for an excuse to upgrade but with a gun to my head I can’t come up with one.

Rob

 

 

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Microfix

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OldMainframeGuy wrote:

I really am looking for an excuse to upgrade but with a gun to my head I can’t come up with one.

Then don’t upgrade.  I say “very minor” because I’ve scraped off the parts that Microsoft thought were a big improvement; I don’t need ’em.

Windows 11 boots a bit faster than Windows 10.  I say that because I dual boot, Windows 10 on one side and Windows 11 on the other, so it’s a comparison on the same hardware.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We were all once "Average Users". We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do to our systems, we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

Computer Specs

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I would argue that Win10 has never been ready which is why i still find it astonishing it’s now coming to EoL. I’ve been coming here for years and i’ve lost count of the complaints of users being the eternal beta testers when a feature release screws things up yet again. Progress is a comfortable disease i suppose…

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wdburt1, Cybertooth, Charlie

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LoneWolf wrote:

The OS is evolutionary, but not revolutionary.

Some would say DEVOlutionary

🍻

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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Cybertooth

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Also, Microsoft may change specifications as Windows 11 matures resulting in your computer not updating. Because of that possibility, stick with  Win10 as long as possible.

BTW there are real world examples of that happening with Win10.  My mobile device ran happily on Win10 for a few years until support for the processor was dropped {fortunately at that stage I had bought a replacement and was using it only as a test device}.

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Windows has always been highly adaptable to virtually any hardware! As long as your PC met the REASONABLE requirements!

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MHCLV941

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In December 2021, I purchased a new computer because it had some of the things I wanted at what I thought was a  good price for the wife as she uses Win 7.. I figured it would have Win 10 on it but surprise welcome to Win 11. I’m a Win 7 user still, yes I have a Win 10 Pro CD ready to replace it, when I get around to it.  Anyway my introduction to Win 11 was an eye opener. Microsoft expects to run your computer. It wants access  to every decision you make, as well as let’s go to the internet at every chance. Well, I figured most of it out myself, it’s Windows for pete sake and I have had everyone of those since Win95. Here is the first real problem that I noticed. It was so far behind in updates that a lot of them would fail, with a network failure notice. I kept thinking what was this about. I continued to get the computer up and going but still kept getting network failure issues when downloading Win updates and other regular application downloads. The computer configuration is HP, with AMD Rysen 7 and 16 megs of ram, ssd. Fairly nice machine. I started with Edge as the browser but really felt it was the issue for the network failure on downloads so I switched to Chrome. I felt it was working better until this past week when I started looking for answers and started Googling. Major issues it appears with CHROME, Win 11 and anti-virus. I removed AVAST which also tried to run everything but find that downloads under 100 megs seem to do and download but anything over 100 megs gets network failure. I know that my ISP is very flakey and is having problems and I know that has to get fixed quick before anything else. Anyway just be aware that Win 11 and microsoft have ideas on how your computer should be running for them if you allow it. If you have any ideas on the network fail issue, let me know.

LLOYD SPIVEY, Hartford, KY.

 

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Charlie, wdburt1

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“Is Windows 11 ready? Are we ready?”
No, and I’m not.

I’ve replaced several Win10 machines with M1 Apples, and just ordered a base M1 Pro MBP 14″ and a base M1 Max Mac Studio today. I want nothing to do with Win11.

My last Win10 machine (a Ryzen 9 5900x / 5700XT / 64 GB RAM / 3 TB SSD, 8 TB HDD workstation) will eventually be reimaged to Ubuntu, probably within the next few days. I don’t like the direction that MS is headed and as such I’m refusing to use their products anymore.

We have 0 plans at this point to upgrade to Win11 at work via SCCM deployments, and as soon as I’m eligible for a new laptop, I’ll be requesting a MacBook Air. (As soon as we finish switching to the ZTNA VPN appliance, which AFAIK does have a native Mac client.)

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Microfix, Charlie, Cybertooth

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For users, Windows IS the interface, and changes to it are NOT superficial precisely because they impact the user the most.  There is ZERO reason why Microsoft had to change the interface from Windows 10, save the sheer joy in creating massive customer vexation because of it.

The changes “under the hood” that will force hundreds of millions of PCs into the landfill or make the cyber world LESS secure because those “old” will keep running Windows 10 after October 2025 will be a PR, environmental, and security disaster of Microsoft’s own making but that’s a matter for another year.

Michael Neihaus and most other writers gloss over or ignore the real loss of function in the Start Menu and Taskbar, especially the former.   I have yet to see any writer task Microsoft to task for killing jump lists in the start menu in favor of a useless collection of  “recommended files” that is nothing more than an MRU.

By the way, is Niehaus a Microsoft employee or just its biggest fanboy?    I re-read his article and can come to no conclusion that he is one or the other (or both?).   I consider it an honor to be “odd”  in his not remotely humble opinion because I have put the taskbar on the right side of my left screen for as long as I have been able to.   Given the amount of heat this stupid change has created, I’m not the only one.

 

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Cybertooth, oldfry

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We are waiting on Windows 11 until someone fixes taskbar flexibility, either Microsoft or a third-party. My Windows 10 taskbar is vertical. I already ditched the Windows Start menu in Windows 10. I find the Windows UI needs third-party add-ons. We figure the longer we wait, the more stable Windows 11 will be and fewer zero day bugs will exist, given all the new code added.

Windows 10 22H2 desktops & laptops on Dell, HP, ASUS; No servers, no domain.

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Cybertooth

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oldfry wrote:

We are waiting on Windows 11 until someone fixes taskbar flexibility, either Microsoft or a third-party. My Windows 10 taskbar is vertical. I already ditched the Windows Start menu in Windows 10. I find the Windows UI needs third-party add-ons. We figure the longer we wait, the more stable Windows 11 will be and fewer zero day bugs will exist, given all the new code added.

Aren’t many of us?  (Not “all of us” because I am sure there are some who like the “improvements” to the interface).

That said, I fear waiting for Microsoft to undo any of the damage to the Start Menu and Taskbar is about as futile as pounding sand – and a lot less fun.

The only real hope is some brilliant third-party add-ons.

However, there is a problem with add-ons to resolve these problems: using many computers, not all which can have the add-on added on.  I regularly have reason to touch upwards of three dozen computers these days (many more before I retired).  Even though add-ons in this class are usually individually inexpensive, deploying them en masse begins to add up for the client or employer.  The net result is having to be proficient in Microsoft’s abysmal excuse for an interface.

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Cybertooth

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oldfry wrote:

We figure the longer we wait, the more stable Windows 11 will be and fewer zero day bugs will exist, given all the new code added.

That won’t happen.
Each new Windows OS version has more security bugs that the previous versions.

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Alex5723 wrote:

Each new Windows OS version has more security bugs that the previous versions.

Windows 11: 198
Windows 10: 2621

Windows 8: 1863
Windows 7: 2035

Windows 11 Pro version 22H2 build 22621.1778 + Microsoft 365 + Edge

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Cybertooth

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b wrote:

Alex5723 wrote:

Each new Windows OS version has more security bugs that the previous versions.

Windows 11: 198
Windows 10: 2621

Windows 8: 1863
Windows 7: 2035

Interesting information, thanks!

It bears noting that those figures are over different numbers of years for each OS. The average vulnerabilities per year come out to:

• Windows 7 (2009-2022, 14 years) : 145.35
• Windows 8.1 (2013-2022, 10 years): 186.3
• Windows 10 (2015-2022, 8 years): 327.62
• Windows 11 (5 months, 10/2021-3/2022, or 0.4166 years): 198/0.4166 = 475.28

One could quibble over the partial year 2022, but that wouldn’t affect the ranking of the averages. If we count only the Windows 11 vulns reported in 2022, that’s 138 for the first quarter 2022, which projects to 552 over a full year’s time.

 

Keep Running Windows 7 Safely for Years to Come  
Make Windows 10 look and work like Windows 7

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Microfix, Charlie, wavy, oldfry, wdburt1, Alex5723

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As a person who is still running Windows 8.1 / Windows 7 (and still holding off Windows 10), I consider Windows 11 just a pile of rubbish that I will avoid for as long as possible, having already looked at what it was after I installed and tested it in a VMware Workstation virtual machine (using an ISO created by MediaCreationTool which bypasses all the hardware checks).

And hopefully I won’t ever upgrade my hardware just to satisfy its (ridiculous and useless, at least to me) requirements. My five year old (and counting) system running on a i7 6900K is still going strong and good enough for me. I have no wish to change at this point.

Microsoft is changing the Windows interface just because it can and it wants to. I certainly don’t ever want or need the changes. For me, I would have been happy if Microsoft sticks to the Windows 7 (or even Windows XP) interface and doesn’t ever change it.

Lastly in response to the question posted, my answer is : I don’t consider Windows 11 ready now, and I don’t think I will ever be ready for it. Unfortunately, as I am dependent on Windows on at least some of my machines, eventually I will probably be forced to use it. I will delay that for as long as I can.

Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst.

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Microfix, Charlie, Cybertooth, OldMainframeGuy

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While I don’t share your views on Windows 10 I completely share your views on Windows 11 – change for the sake of change with no regard to functionality.

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Microfix, MHCLV941

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Mele20 wrote:

anonymous wrote:

the poor performance of the M1 chip compared to Intel’s latest.

Where do you get the above from? I’ve been a Dell XPS desktop user since 1999 and both my XPS with Windows 8 Pro and my XPS with Windows 10 Pro are quite powerful. I got into Apple a little over three years ago with my first smart phone and then an Apple watch. Now I am currently considering getting an iPad Air tablet. Ordinarily, I would have already bought a new Dell XPS desktop but …..

Anyhow, here’s just one article I read tonight raving about the M1 chip:

https://www.tomsguide.com/news/macbook-pro-m1-benchmarks-are-in-and-they-destroy-intel

Did you look at the date of the article?  It’s from almost two years ago.  Intel’s 12th gen has surpassed Apple’s current M1.

https://techjourneyman.com/blog/apple-m1-vs-intel-core-i9/

So yeah, if you’re living in 2020, the M1 is beating Intel and AMD.

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anonymous wrote:

Intel’s 12th gen has surpassed Apple’s current M1.

This is old. M1 Ultra destroys Intel 12 gen.

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Well it’s beginning to look like “WE” are not ready:
https://www.theregister.com/2022/03/31/windows_11_stalls/?td=rt-3a

Keeping IT Lean, Clean and Mean!

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Cybertooth

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Microfix wrote:

Well it’s beginning to look like “WE” are not ready:
https://www.theregister.com/2022/03/31/windows_11_stalls/?td=rt-3a

No, it’s beginning to look like Microsoft is going to have to get off its high horse about hardware requirements for upgrading existing computers. Folks are not going to throw away perfectly functional computers just because Microsoft says “you can also explore new PCs that will run Windows 11” on/after October 2025.

Without argument, Windows 11 on a machine that checks all the boxes is going to be more secure than a Windows 10 machine that does not. However, unless Microsoft is prepared to say that a Windows 11 on a machine that does not check all the boxes is less secure than Windows 10 on that same machine, it has no defensible reason for arbitrarily refusing to support such upgrades. In addition, it’s well-established that Windows 11 does run on “lesser” equipment. Indeed, Microsoft itself makes provisions for doing, albeit while it tries to panic one into buying “new PCs that will run Windows 11”.

Claiming that most machines will be compatible with Windows 11 by October 2025 is a rather snobby canard. As is the canard that PCs get replaced every 3-4 years. I am sure that, in some companies, this happens but it does not happen in all companies and even fewer homes, schools, churches, non-profits, etc.

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mindwarp

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Can confirm re: home users not upgrading computing devices every few years. I’m only finally looking at replacing my PC that I’ve owned since 2009 now since I noticed it was running really hot while using it and updating Windows for the first time in about two years and can actually afford to replace it thanks to my share of my late father’s estate. Desktops are expensive – every one I’ve ever owned were gifts, frequently of discontinued lines of hardware. Mobile devices aren’t much better for average users. I saw a lot of old outdated devices helping people in my old job, in part due to cost to replace them. I personally buy mid-range Android devices that I know I can afford to replace in a few years when I need to do so due to hardware issues.

Side note, before anyone freaks out over lack of updates on the above PC: I haven’t had it on since it was last updated, as I use my Android devices normally. It is running Win10, only because I had separately upgraded the graphics card years ago. If I hadn’t, I would have been stuck on Win7.

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Maybe another second hand box as a replacement? Save loads on a system you rarely use.

cheers, Paul

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The reason I had my old PC on and updating was because there’s a pretty decent chance I might need it for at-home work. That was not fun on my old PC before, so biting the bullet and replacing it when I could definitely afford to do so with a computer that can run Win11 if/when I upgrade to that seemed to be the better long term option.  Bonus: it was on sale from the manufacturer, and I could get it with Win10 Pro.

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From Thurrott.com – Windows 11 is Not Ready for Business (only Premium users can view this article in its entirety) [published April 6, 2022]
https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-11/265289/windows-11-is-not-ready-for-business

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