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  • Is Windows back?

    Posted on Susan Bradley Comment on the AskWoody Lounge

    Home Forums AskWoody blog Is Windows back?

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      • #2326451
        Susan Bradley
        Manager

        ZDnet has an article based on a job posting.  Say what you ask? How could an article about future versions of Windows be based on a job posting on Mic
        [See the full post at: Is Windows back?]

        Susan Bradley Patch Lady

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2326458
        anonymous
        Guest

        A Microsoft job posting for a Windows software engineer backs up hints that the company is planning a major overall of the Windows interface

        Overall improvement? overall step towards meeting end-user needs? Overall security improvement? Proofread. Why proofread? It sounds near enough to overhaul to convey the meaning!

        • #2326471
          Alex5723
          AskWoody Plus

          That posting has been changed removing the ‘major overall of the Windows interface’

      • #2326485
        anonymous
        Guest

        A Microsoft job posting for a Windows software engineer backs up hints that the company is planning a major overall of the Windows interface

        overhaul, there’s nothing new here, MS out of ideas? “lets change the interface color” with the same tiled mobile interface and add some taskbar news snippets

        perhaps the new job post requires the wearing of an overall?

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2326490
        geekdom
        AskWoody Plus

        Several observations regarding specific job opportunities:

        Salary range is a notable omission.

        In light of pandemic, the ability to work from home in an isolated environment should be a consideration.

        BetaTest {Got backup and coffee}
        offline▸ Win10Pro 2004.19041.572 x64 i3-3220 RAM8GB HDD Firefox83.0b3 WindowsDefender TRV=1909 WuMgr
        offline▸ Win10Pro 20H2.19042.685 x86 Atom N270 RAM2GB HDD WindowsDefender WuMgr GuineaPigVariant
        online▸ Win10Pro 2004.19041.746 x64 i5-9400 RAM16GB HDD Firefox85.0b9 WindowsDefender TRV=2004 WuMgr
      • #2326492
        Ascaris
        AskWoody_MVP

        I am skeptical. As Anonymous wrote, we were told the start menu was receiving a big revamp, and it was different colored tiles and other such window dressing (no pun intended) on an existing bad design.

        I would love to believe that MS has gotten the message that the half-mobile, half-desktop UI has got to go, but there have been lots of opportunities from them to learn from experience that they have not taken. Windows 10 mobile was pronounced dead years ago, yet every desktop PC running Windows 10 now continues to have the desktop-oriented and superior Control Panel gutted in favor of fewer options taking up twice the space in the Settings app. UWP was declared moribund too, yet its design language still dominates Windows 10.

        If MS could once again design a purpose-built OS for PCs with larger displays, hardware keyboards, and discrete pointing devices, that would be fantastic. But would it be something like the time-tested File, Edit, View… menubar, or would it be more like the often hated Ribbon that replaced it in Windows 8’s File Explorer?

        If the UI is fixed to be truly decent, that would be fantastic, but Windows won’t be “back” on my PCs as long as it doesn’t offer full control of updates, telemetry, and everything else. It won’t be back as long as I would have to step onto the feature upgrade treadmill to stay in security support. It’s a step in the right direction if they do it, but it will take many more before I would be willing to consider it a secondary OS to Linux (and I don’t see it ever being on top again).

        Right now, Windows isn’t a secondary OS as much as a vestige that I keep around on the premise that it is better to have something and not need it than to need it and not have it. It uses very little space when you don’t have anything installed on it and have the partitions shrunk as small as they will go (it can’t update, but that’s fine). I haven’t started it in several weeks, and I haven’t ever used Windows 10 as an actual tool (as opposed to testing things, like power consumption on Linux vs. Windows browsers while streaming videos) other than for a brief time when I ran Macrium from Windows to do my backups of Linux, before I found Veeam. I could have booted from a Macrium USB drive to do that, but it’s easier just to boot to Windows than to have to hunt around for the USB stick.

        I’m willing to be convinced, though, Microsoft… dazzle me!

        Group "L" (KDE Neon Linux 5.20.5 User Edition)

        9 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2326496
        OscarCP
        AskWoody Plus

        Microsoft has since removed the exciting reference about telling customers that Windows is back, and now only states that the software engineer will help build “delightful, polished, experiences for Windows as well as for our Surface Hub product line.

        The company had described Sun Valley in internal documents as “reinvigorating” and modernizing the Windows desktop experience. This would be a change from recent releases, which haven’t brought major changes to the Windows 10 UI.

        This UI refresh will reportedly include an overhaul to the Start Menu, Action Center and some in-box/bundled Microsoft apps, and they will be an optional change.”

        Yes, well, a functional and direct-to-the-point graphical user interface would be nice and go someway to make things better for users, if it indeed is a well-done job and with “better for users” foremost in mind. But that would just take care of the visually observable tip of the iceberg of obnoxiousness:

        (1) Way too frequent version “upgrades.”

        (2) Too numerous, endlessly delivered and too often dodgy patches.

        (3) Poor costumer support.

        (4) Useful things eliminated or made less useful for no obvious reasons.

        (4) That evergreen feature: snooping on users.

        (5) Loss of confidence in MS by those who still remember those early Windows 10 offer popups that actually got Win X installed when not interested users click them off.

        (6) Your favorite MS peeve, here.

        Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group W (ex B) & macOS Mojave + Linux (Mint)

        3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2326522
        ClearThunder
        AskWoody Plus

        Changing the UI.  That’s where MS always gets into trouble.  When they rolled out Win 8.0/1 the windows computing world howled.  Sure, it was more stable.  But MS changed the UI.  Win10 was released, and the UI changed ……. again.

        I dare say that if MS had rolled out Win8.1 and, later, Win10 while keeping the beloved XP or Win7 UI, there would be a lot more harmony in the windows world.

        One of these days the folks in Redmond will figure out that you can upgrade and improve an operating system without changing the UI.

        3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2326542
        anonymous
        Guest

        Oh this sounds sweet. Maybe put start on the right side, replace these useless wallpapers with live ads and news, add another control panel or 2, mix it up. Possibilities are endless 🙂

        • #2326555
          anonymous
          Guest

          Heck, why not just change the user interface BACK!

          You know, to something that actually worked well.

          Just a thought…

           

           

          2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2326598
        anonymous
        Guest

        Windows hasn’t been my primary OS for quite a number of months now. Why? It’s not because of the UI—is Microsoft fixing what simply isn’t broken? I left Windows because the absurd update cadence was wearing my patience thin. Microsoft might be able to win back some of my trust and faith if they 1) make feature upgrades once a year at least, rather than twice a year; 2) never force users to upgrade, ever, even if they’re EOL; and 3) extend the support lifecycle for each feature upgrade to at least three years, rather than 18 months. This will make upgrades a lot easier for me, because my Windows laptop and its spinning hard drive is no longer able to keep up with these feature upgrades, even if I stagger them to only install once a year; it’s not a procedure that I want to have to do year after year just to continue receiving security patches.

        3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2326606
        Elrod
        AskWoody Plus

        This just in…Aero is Back!

        Group "L": Linux Mint

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #2326607
          Microfix
          AskWoody MVP

          So it is….

          W10aero


          Problems controlling W!N10 updates:
          https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/2000016-guide-for-windows-update-settings-for-windows-10/
          Attachments:
          6 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2326610
        JohnW
        AskWoody Lounger

        This sounds like another Windows 8 GUI fiasco in the making…

        I think Microsoft should make the Windows desktop “skinnable”, with optional user selections for “classic” or “latest” GUI.

        That would be more analogous to having the desktop environment of choice, like Linux has had for years. The OS under the hood can be improved, while rarely needing to change the desktop GUI that users are accustomed to.

        3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2326684
        anonymous
        Guest

        Windows 10 is in a rut, not a whole lot different than when it was released. Most of us Windows users are used to major revisions every few years. Like Apple doing a pretty significant UI update in Mac OS with Big Sur. I think Microsoft does need to do more than incremental upgrades to Windows 10. Maybe it’s time to see a Windows 11 or some other naming system?

        • #2326688
          PKCano
          Manager

          Wait for it……….
          WindowsX is coming.

          • #2326705
            abbodi86
            AskWoody_MVP

            It’s actually Windows XX (tenX) 😀

            2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #2327091
            anonymous
            Guest

            UGH… New hardware required. Cloud-based?! MS account required?! Will MS have access to my local content/data?! Delayed support for legacy applications I must run. Wonder how long MS will update current Win10 on my current very expensive hardware?! UGH…

        • #2327340
          OscarCP
          AskWoody Plus

          Not just updating the GUI, in fact the changes there are pretty small. It has also changed significant parts of the operating system under the hood. It is a comprehensive major change in the way Macs run with the new version of macOS “BigSur”, both those with Intel CISC and those with the brand-new M1, the first of the Apple/ARM RISC CPUs.

          Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group W (ex B) & macOS Mojave + Linux (Mint)

      • #2328621
        AlexEiffel
        AskWoody_MVP

        To say “to signal our customers that Windows is BACK” is an acknowledgment that it went away. The problem is I am not sure at all Microsoft get why it went away or they don’t care and they just play the marketing game again thinking the fish will bite over and over.

        Aero was pretty nice and the ability to be able to run an interface similar to Vista would delight me. Unfortunately, that is not at all what will happen. Windows 10’s interface is inefficient. The search tool is terrible at showing many results. They still haven’t finished their transition to the new ineffective Control Panel. How long will they take to do more than a bit of home staging on the variations of the same terrible feature ideas ?

        As I said a while ago when they talked about Windows X as a dual screen device, this version might be a real change as a single screen OS, but it won’t be because of its interface and it will probably be a long transition and I am not sure that those changes will be exciting or well understood by the average user, except the vague idea that it will be more secure, but Microsoft already plays that game touting Enterprise only features to say Windows is more secure to consumers. That it will be more true this time with Windows X won’t have any effect on consumers that are used to get the message that Windows is more secure with each version while Google play their ads bragging about its “no virus” OS.

        It seems that Microsoft think people buy OSes mainly because of the way they look. I think people buy an OS because they buy a new Windows computer and they put up with whatever is on it unless they change to a different device type altogether. Budget is one thing, legacy software and hardware… It might be true however that many people’s opinion of an OS when the rest works ok might be determined by how it looks. With Windows right now, the rest doesn’t work as great as it should, so the way it looks is a lesser concern when you have a frustrating experience with it.

         

        3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #2334580
          doriel
          AskWoody Lounger

          The problem is I am not sure at all Microsoft get why it went away or they don’t care and they just play the marketing game again thinking the fish will bite over and over.

          Exactly. I think Windows never went away. Just more and more people are going away, or want to. Simply because of bad user experience – no matter how hard Microsoft is trying to sell us, how great his OS is. Mostly with graphical adjustment. Im not saying W10 is not evolving underneath, but the experience is just not that great.

          Dell Latitude E6530, Intel Core i5 @ 2.6 GHz, 4GB RAM, W10 1809 Enterprise

          HAL3000, AMD Athlon 200GE @ 3,4 GHz, 8GB RAM, Fedora 29

      • #2334267
        Alex5723
        AskWoody Plus

        Windows 10 Sun Valley: Everything we know so far
        A design refresh, new features, and an attempt to bring Windows back into the spotlight.

        Microsoft is currently working on a major update for Windows 10 that is expected to debut later this year that will bring with it a refreshed design and new features that are supposed to enhance the users’ workflow in 2021 and beyond. Codenamed Sun Valley, this will be the biggest update to Windows 10 since Microsoft left the OS to stagnate on the market. Microsoft wants to reinvigorate the desktop, and Sun Valley is where it all starts…

        When is it coming?
        Microsoft is hoping to deliver Sun Valley as an update in the fall of this year. I’ve heard it’ll begin rolling out in October, likely under the “October 2021 Update” (version 21H2) moniker.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #2334676
          AlexEiffel
          AskWoody_MVP

          This doesn’t seem exciting at all from the glance I took at the article.

          Nothing there is new. It is the same idea of putting new monetization gadgets that they will change a few years later to replace with other gadgets with another name.

          Cleaning the taskbar? Please, no! Have you thought a blue screen with nothing else on it? Now, that is clean. Simplification with Microsoft is often dumbification and then they wonder why people don’t like their change.

          Unification of the interface in the more touch friendly direction. This is what they have been doing at a very slow pace and with not very good results since Windows 10 launched.

          It seems like all of this is just marketing. There is no substance to this. I guess some people get excited out of cosmetic changes and gadget features, but who they are trying to sell this to, people that might be tempted to not buy a PC again once their current one dies?

          They say Windows 10 didn’t get much love for a while, so why do they release a new version every 6 months, then? Maybe they should start thinking about a consumer LTS version with less annoyances and give just enough love that people love Windows for his stability.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2334371
        Alex5723
        AskWoody Plus
      • #2334521
        Alex5723
        AskWoody Plus

        How it’s official not from Microsoft?

        It just leaked directly from Microsoft.
        I would suspect that the leak is deliberate in order for Microsoft to get the response
        to the new Chrome OS clone.

        First was ChrEdge and now ChreWin.

        • This reply was modified 4 days, 1 hour ago by Alex5723.
        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #2334575
          abbodi86
          AskWoody_MVP

          AFAIK, it’s released for OEMs to test and prepare

          it’s basically evolved Windows 10 IoT, where you (the OEM) get to choose what features you want to add

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #2334578
            doriel
            AskWoody Lounger

            I think you are not correct, Windows 10X is based on Linux core.
            Windows 10 IoT has Windows core.

            But I agree with you, that OEM can customise its contents, that is going to be shipped to customers.

            Dell Latitude E6530, Intel Core i5 @ 2.6 GHz, 4GB RAM, W10 1809 Enterprise

            HAL3000, AMD Athlon 200GE @ 3,4 GHz, 8GB RAM, Fedora 29

            2 users thanked author for this post.
            • #2334590
              abbodi86
              AskWoody_MVP

              What Linux core exactly? you mean WSL2?
              isn’t Windows 10X WCOS derived from Windws OneCore codebase?

              i have access to Windows 10X files distributed va UUP, they are 70% like Windows 10 IoT files and uses the same mechanism to build FFU flash image
              https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/manufacture/iot/build-retail-image

              • This reply was modified 3 days, 17 hours ago by abbodi86.
              2 users thanked author for this post.
              • #2334713
                doriel
                AskWoody Lounger

                Hi.
                I thought,that 10X is actually build on linux core. Im not talking about subsystem for linux here.
                But now I looked up and you are correct. Its WCOS based.

                Dell Latitude E6530, Intel Core i5 @ 2.6 GHz, 4GB RAM, W10 1809 Enterprise

                HAL3000, AMD Athlon 200GE @ 3,4 GHz, 8GB RAM, Fedora 29

      • #2334551
        doriel
        AskWoody Lounger

        Changing UI is 95% of what they do in past few years.
        I think Microsoft thinks he is creating nice beuatiful application, instead of operating system. Someone should tell them, that it should be operating system, that comes out of Redmond.

        WE DONT WANT ANOTHER CHANGES TO THE INTREFACE. WE WANT SOLID BASIS TAHT REMAINS THE SAME AND DEVELOPPERS CAN HAVE SOMETHING TO RELY ON.

        Unfortunatelly Microsoft management is too selfish to accept, that they can be mistaken. And I really hope, this overhaul will be disaster, so they finally notice, that are not doing good job. They just annoy people and they refuse to admit. Lot of good came from Microsoft, but recently its just factory on making money and collecting data, instead of creating something good.

        At least MS Teams seems to be working well. They just bought Skype and put Microsoft logo in there, didnt they..

        Windows is back? Where have they been those 20 years, when they got 90% of the market share?

        Dell Latitude E6530, Intel Core i5 @ 2.6 GHz, 4GB RAM, W10 1809 Enterprise

        HAL3000, AMD Athlon 200GE @ 3,4 GHz, 8GB RAM, Fedora 29

        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2334583
        OscarCP
        AskWoody Plus

        As far as I am concerned, Windows as a Linux-type OS would be something to be welcome by those of us who use Linux and macOS. No more back slashes! Yay! Lots more tools at our disposal! Ability to install directly actual GNU compilers and other kinds of GPL software for free! Assuming MS does not create its own walled garden with mile-high walls, that is.

        Of course, Windows, either as it is now, or more likely, as some new version of the same basic OS, should continue to exist for years to come, or else I suspect there will be chaos.

        Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group W (ex B) & macOS Mojave + Linux (Mint)

      • #2334608
        Alex5723
        AskWoody Plus

        AFAIK, it’s released for OEMs to test and prepare

        So it is officially from Microsoft.

        • #2334616
          abbodi86
          AskWoody_MVP

          It’s official when it’s public or announced (even for Insiders)
          but it’s not, yet

          1 user thanked author for this post.
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