Issue with 14 Nov 2023 Patches – WIN 10 PRO, x64

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Checked for Tuesday 14 Nov updates and saw three available. The below two downloaded and installed with no problem

KB5032189 – Cumulative Update for Windows 10 Version 22H2 for x64-based systems
KB5032339 – Cumulative Update for .NET Framework 3.5, 4.8 and 4.8.1 for Windows 10 Version 22H2 for x64

The third update, which I cannot find any record of, downloaded and began installing, but stopped at 74% and stalled for what seemed like a couple hours. I shut the PC off, restarted it and it started fine,  returning to my normal screen. Thinking the third patch could someday be a problem, I tried to restore the PC using the most recent a restore point, made before the three patches were downloaded. That restore operation failed. I then shut the PC off, powered it up but the PC froze in the “boot up” mode. I shut it off again, connected an external Macrium Reflect backup, restarted the PC and everything worked perfectly. So I thought, except for two small things.

In the Task bar, the WINDOWS BUTTON on the left side and the SOUND Control button on the right side does not work with the left mouse control button. I can access the WINDOWS and SOUND functions with the right mouse control button, but the normal Tiles, colors, etc with left mouse click are not working. When I use the right mouse click, I see and can use links (white text against a black background). All other icons and features work as normal with left mouse control button.

Things I have tried:
chkdsk /f (unsure if that helped)
SFC /scannow – found problems and Win10 automatically fixed them
DISM /online /cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth (unsure if that helped)
Task Manager – Windows Explorer – Restart (unsure if that helped)

Is there another step you recommend? If yes, and if it involves the registry, could you provide step by step instructions as I am a novice in that area. Thanks for any help you can offer

 

 

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Other than a defender update I haven’t seen additional updates offered.  In your update history do you have any additional info?  It sounds more like something happened with the mouse.  Do you have a spare?

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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DKThompson

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No, this is the only mouse I have. It works as expected on all other  pinned apps in the taskbar and thumbnails of running apps. It just won’t open the start menu (with its navigation items on the left and start screen on the right side) nor allow me to quickly mute or change the sound volume as it did before Tuesday.

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You don’t have any start menu/menu adjustment software installed right?

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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DKThompson

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I have Directory Opus running as my file manager in lieu of Explorer.

UPDATE on my initial query:   Usually, when I use the Start Menu (bottom left) or the Task View (active and pinned programs (bottom center) and the overflow icons  (bottom right), I can use both the right and left mouse clicks  to reach whatever function I need. Now, only one of the two clicks works. For example right click only on Start Menu, left click only on task view, right click only on overflow icons. I reset the taskbar to default settings but that did not resolve the problem

I will try two more actions: (1) turning Opus off and using Windows Explorer (2) Uninstalling the two recent patches

Does anyone have other suggestions? Thank you

 

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Suggest you use device manager to either “Roll Back Driver” for the mouse or, if that option isn’t available, uninstall it and then reboot which will force Windows to reinstall the driver.

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DKThompson

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I bought a new wireless mouse, which works perfectly out of the box, but still, the task bar issue remains. So, the mouse and driver are not the problem

Thank you for your suggestion

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DKThompson wrote:

I bought a new wireless mouse, which works perfectly out of the box, but still, the task bar issue remains. So, the mouse and driver are not the problem

Hi DKThompson:

Just an aside, but a few years ago I had to perform an emergency recovery of my Win 10 Pro machine because it wouldn’t boot up and I suspect the problem was caused by a BIOS firmware or hardware driver update delivered by Windows Update during a Patch Tuesday.

You stated that you don’t believe your mouse driver was damaged this month, but since you have a Win 10 Pro OS that includes the Local Group Policy Editor [open a Run dialog box (Windows key + R and enter gpedit.msc to launch] you might want to consider configuring Windows Update so it does not offer updates for your firmware and hardware drivers. See Option # 1 of the TenForums tutorial How to Enable or Disable Including Driver Updates in Windows Update in Windows 10. From my Win 10 Pro v22H2 laptop:

———–
Dell Inspiron 5584 * 64-bit Win 10 Pro v22H2 build 19045.3693 * Firefox v119.0.1 * Microsoft Defender v4.18.23100.2009-1.1.23100.2009 * Malwarebytes Premium v4.6.6.294-1.0.2189 * Macrium Reflect Free v8.0.7690

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DKThompson

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I shut it off again, connected an external Macrium Reflect backup, restarted the PC and everything worked perfectly.

Does this mean you restored a previous Macrium backup?

Custom desktop Asus TUF X299 Mark 1 16GB RAM i7-7820X
4 27" 1080p screens 2 over 2.
Laptop Clevo/Sager i7-9750H - 17.3" Full HD 1080p 144Hz, 16GB RAM Win 10 Pro 22H2 all

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DKThompson

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Yes, it was a previous Macrium backup

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I tried to Uninstall the last two updates, and I can select them from the list (left click) , but the mouse issue does not give me the “uninstall” option (right click). My thought was that the Macrium backup was not 100% compatible with the  current updates.

 

And, the third patch was the security update KB5032189.  So one of the other patches is the problem child. More searching and investigation is required……

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On Windows 10 the uninstall option is at the top.  Look for “Uninstall updates”.  Every windows security update is absolutely uninstall-able.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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DKThompson

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You said you installed three updates

KB5032189 – Cumulative Update for Windows 10 Version 22H2 for x64-based systems
KB5032339 – Cumulative Update for .NET Framework 3.5, 4.8 and 4.8.1 for Windows 10 Version 22H2 for x64

The third update, which I cannot find any record of,

 

And then you said

And, the third patch was the security update KB5032189.  So one of the other patches is the problem child. More searching and investigation is required…

 

So I’m confused?  I’m guessing it was a defender update.

Are you positive that you’ve not used any start menu/startall back software?  Can you do a screen shot of your desktop so I can see if it looks like stock Windows?

 

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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DKThompson

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Thank you for your help and patience. Here are two screen shots, (1) the desktop, (2) the uninstall feature missing from Update History / “Uninstall an update”

And you are correct – the servicing stack may very well be the culprit,  plus my impatience after seeing the install process “freeze” at 74%. This slow, slow install process has never happened before with any update, and I over reacted

 

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Servicing stack updates are just impacting the windows update plumbing and do not interact with the desktop.  They are not uninstallable.  But the security update that may be the culprit can be uninstalled.  If you click on it, it will uninstall.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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DKThompson

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SUCCESS!!!  You are correct! I uninstalled the security update, rebooted (takes a longer time to boot than expected but I remained patience and let the system work).

Right and Left Mouse clicks in the Task Bar (Start menu, task view actived and pinned programs, overflow icons) work as expected.  I will continue checking other mouse related activities, but so far, so good. Thank you so very much

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It’s not uncommon for the 4 Win 10 computers (3 Pro and 1 Home) I maintain to hang for 5 to 10 minutes at the 74% installation mark. Other hang points are around 21% and 44%, again for several minutes.

After some very bad patching experiences with Win 7 back in 2017 where update installation and restarts would each take as long as 4 hours, I chucked Win 7, moved to Win 8.1, and started keeping logs of all updates with notes for how long it took for a given update to reach various points, and similarly for restarts. It’s not exactly fun, but I only update when I’m sitting at the computer monitoring it closely. After a few months I develop a feel for how long various stages should take on each computer. It turns out there’s a fair amount of consistency from one month to the next. Usually, during what I called a “hang” above, I can tell it’s not a true hang/freeze but just the computer taking time to do what it needs to do. Listen for fan speed changes, or watch any activity indicator lights the computer has. If you have an HDD, listen for hard drive noise. And, this might sound silly, but on my computers I can position the cursor so that in certain places – usually sort of in between lines of text in the Windows Update window – the cursor will flicker irregularly if the computer is working on something.

FWIW – I find it hard to judge how much time it takes to reach various installation stages unless I actually time the events. Also, on Win 8.1 and 10, I’ve never had a true freeze while patching/updating. One of the Win 10 machines is 8 years old has an HDD and takes its sweet time updating, but I know it might “hang” for prhaps as long as 20 minutes around 74%, so I always bring some light reading material to it’s update session.

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DKThompson

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I had exactly the same issue with this update hanging and now windows search isn’t working.  Tried all the recommended fixes that I can find including running some scripts in powershell and still the same. Definitely an issue with this update.

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DKThompson

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I installed the November updates in two Win10 22H2 VMs.  It was easy to think that the updates were hanging since the progress was pegged at 74% for quite a while.  But after a healthy wait they did complete.  The restart process was also quite lengthy.  But the two VMs eventually came back to life and I haven’t observed any problems in their subsequent operations.

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DKThompson

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This update killed my MSI Laptop apache GE62vr 7rf. It had an Silicone Graphics PCIE gen 3 SSD with my data on it. It was in sleep mode when update happened and I thought it locked up. I ran my hand over the keyboard to wake it up and  -nothing. I reset it by holding the power button down. upon reboot, nothing.

In effort top retrieve the data;

I removed PCIE SSD and video card in win 11 desktop w/on-board video and placed an old laptop hard drive in. installed windows 10 and when i did this  KB5032189 it killed the install on two try’s. I re-inserted video card and re-installed win 10 a 3rd time and it loaded fine w/KB5032189. I have been unable to retrieve data of MSI SSD, says disk is “raw” format.

looking for drive repair software now as I write this.

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That sounds like the drive died.  When a system reboots, it can trigger conditions that were there but hiding.  The patch didn’t necessary cause it, the rebooting which makes the system boot all the way back up triggered the failure.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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Thanks for sharing your story. Hope you get your system up and running soon, too.

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Susan Bradley wrote:

So I’m confused? I’m guessing it was a defender update.

Hi DKThompson:

It’s also possible the monthly scan with the Malicious Software Removal Tool (MSRT) that runs each Patch Tuesday (look for new definition sets in your Windows Update history under “Other Updates”) got stuck while scanning a file.

You should also check under “Other Updates” to see if the KB5011048 Microsoft .NET Framework 4.8.1 for Windows 10 shown below that Microsoft started rolling out last month has been delivered.  Some users have reported that delivery of KB5011048 was delayed on  their Win 10 machines until this month’s Nov 2023 Patch Tuesday.

EricB wrote:

I installed the November updates in two Win10 22H2 VMs. It was easy to think that the updates were hanging since the progress was pegged at 74% for quite a while. But after a healthy wait they did complete…

As EricB noted, it’s not unusual for Patch Tuesday updates delivered to Win 10 Pro v22H2 machines to pause for long periods of time, especially when the monthly cumulative Quality Update is downloading or installing. I always check at Settings | Update & Security | Windows Update and confirm that every update that requires a re-boot to complete the installation has a status of “Pending Restart” before clicking the “Restart Now” button, and  my Patch Tuesday updates often take over 40 min to run to completion.
———–
Dell Inspiron 5584 * 64-bit Win 10 Pro v22H2 build 19045.3693 * Firefox v119.0.1 * Microsoft Defender v4.18.23100.2009-1.1.23100.2009 * Malwarebytes Premium v4.6.6.294-1.0.2189 * Macrium Reflect Free v8.0.7690

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DKThompson

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Thank you for this information. Your help, along with Susan and everyone else, has made me change the way I will update any MS patch or MS file in the future.  Check, Verify, Wait, Be Patient is my new gameplan.  I’m never too old to learn new processes and procedures.

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Follow up,

I cannot boot a temp win 10 bare-bone installation with my failed MSI M.2 ssd installed. The drive light blinks after post then after stops blinking a minute later gives me BSD. …we have run into an issue…   The bare bone install works fine without MSI SSD.

I placed the MSI SSD in a USB converter tin and when inserted, windows for ~1 second shows it as RAW then locks computer for ~20 seconds then MSI SSD disappears from dskmgmt with a beep and machine unlocks for anywhere from 10-20 seconds then cycle repeats.

I think the MBR is messed up but I need software (non windows bootable) that will see MSI SSD without puking and have tools to fix it. I know my data is still there.

Any advice please???

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Yesterday, after posting SUCCESS, I saw that a “new” update was available, so I said YES (sorry Susan, I did not pause updates as you suggested) and allowed the system to download the patch.

Long story short: KB5032189 downloaded again, paused at 20%, then 44% then 74% then 100%, but this took 8 hours 21 minutes. Last night, 9 pm, the status showed as “Pending Restart”, and I clicked OK

This morning, 3:40 am, I checked the PC – NO signal from the PC to the screen. Nothing. I turned the PC off and on about three or five times, and suddenly the UEFI BIOS Utility appeared, followed by a normal start up and return to my home screen. A welcome sight! I then ran sfc/scannow. No integrity violations. Ran Macrium Reflect and made a new backup

Bottom line for me – this patch was the worse one I have ever experienced. I will definitely change my patching procedures in the future, and I greatly appreciate all the help each of you have given me

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DKThompson wrote:

this took 8 hours 21 minutes

You better check free space on C drive and repair install Windows OS.

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DKThompson

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SSD/NVME is highly recommended.

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DKThompson

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I read and saw the video in Susan’s post dated May 6, 2023 – Options #2556942 where she shows how to “Repair install of Windows 10 22H2”

This looks very straight forward, does not delete installed apps/data and uses my digital license.

Do you, Tech Tango, Susan  or anyone else have any comments or suggestions or user warnings about following these step by step guidelines

I have a 465 gb Samsung SSD 860 EVO with 175 gb used,  290 free gb of space

Thanks

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I just now finished the repair install procedure. It went well and fast. So far so good and I will continue checking the various apps. Some like Samsung Magician are not working, so I may need to delete / reinstall a few.  Windows security is being chatty with notification of things they have blocked and actions they are taking.  All in all, this has been a most enjoyable experience.

Thank all of you for helping me. Dave Thompson

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You better check free space on C drive and repair install Windows OS.

SSD/NVME is highly recommended.

Alex is correct with the above.  Suggest you don’t get complacent after finally getting a routine looking boot.

Custom desktop Asus TUF X299 Mark 1 16GB RAM i7-7820X
4 27" 1080p screens 2 over 2.
Laptop Clevo/Sager i7-9750H - 17.3" Full HD 1080p 144Hz, 16GB RAM Win 10 Pro 22H2 all

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DKThompson

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Just finished updating my Windows 10 Pro 22H2 with the Nov CU and .NET updates and all went well except for one “minor” issue that cropped up.

After the reboot (it only rebooted once) about half of my desktop icons (13 out of 29) suddenly moved over to the left side of the screen (all the others stayed where they were.)

Ok, not a problem, I just moved them all back to where I wanted them and restarted.

And the “same” icons moved over to the left side again… HUH!!!

I tried several different solutions, including deleting the icon cache database in my user folder, but those particular icons always moved to the left side after a reboot (even after a full power shutdown and restart.)

The final solution was to trash each of the icons that were moving and recreate them from scratch in the locations were I wanted them to be and then they stayed put.

An extremely weird problem that leaves me totally puzzled as to exactly what was caused it?!?!

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DKThompson wrote:

,,, Windows security is being chatty with notification of things they have blocked and actions they are taking.

Hi DKThompson:

What antivirus do you use, and what do you mean by “chatty”? I use Windows Defender as my primary antivirus and see a notification about once a week that Defender successfully ran 5 or 6 scans and did not find any threats (see attached image), but nothing else. If you’re using a third-party antivirus or other security software that loads at Windows startup it’s always possible could be interfering with the download and/or installation of some of your Windows Updates.

If you haven’t already done so I’d suggest running a reputable second-opinion malware scanner like Malwarebytes Free to see if it can find any PUPs (potentially unwanted programs) or malware that might have been missed by your antivirus.

I would also recommend you disable Fast Startup as instructed in Option # 1 in Brinks’ Brink’s TenForums tutorial How to Turn On or Off Fast Startup in Windows 10 and re-boot to ensure the setting change takes effect. The Fast Startup power option (also known as hybrid boot-up / hybrid shutdown) is enabled by default in Win 10 and Win 11 but it can interfere with the loading of services and drivers of third-party software at boot-up and cause unexpected problems, and Microsoft has acknowledged that Fast Startup can even interfere with Windows Update – see the MS support article Updates May Not Be Installed With Fast Startup in Windows 10.
———–
Dell Inspiron 5584 * 64-bit Win 10 Pro v22H2 build 19045.3693 * Firefox v119.0.1 * Microsoft Defender v4.18.23100.2009-1.1.23100.2009 * Malwarebytes Premium v4.6.6.294-1.0.2189 * Macrium Reflect Free v8.0.7690

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lmacri wrote:

Microsoft has acknowledged that Fast Startup can even interfere with Windows Update – see the MS support article Updates May Not Be Installed With Fast Startup in Windows 10.

But all is fine if you restart after installing updates:

This behavior doesn’t occur when you restart your computer.

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I use Norton AV

By “chatty” I mean  that after the “repair install”,  Windows notified me about the Macrium image back up status, Windows security tells me that they blocked unauthorized changes to memory (from Carbonite, my file backup service; from Norton; from “nuperformance scan” and many other notes which I  have cleared.

I run Norton plus Malwarebytes Free and SuperAntiware free. The latter two have found on occasion PUPs and tracking cookies, all which are deleted.

I will check Fast Startup as you suggested.

The other change I have made when updating Windows patches is to turn Norton VPN off before downloading updates.

Thank you for your comments and advise

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I turned Fast Startup off and will see if there is any noticeable effect

I also rechecked my Group Policies: (1) Notice to download updates = #2 which notifies me before download and installed; (2) exclude drivers from windows quality updates; (3) set automatic update options; (4) target release release version for future updates; (5) target product version for future updates [[PS –  I had not changed the target product version from 21H2 to 22H2 – Not sure what impact that had on updates]]

FYI – my system is a tower PC with AMD Ryzen 5 3400G with Radeon Vega Graphics 3.70 GHz processor; 16.0 GB (13.9 GB usable) installed RAM; 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor; Windows 10 Pro; Version 22H2; Installed on‎ 11/‎19/‎2023; OS build: 19045.2965; Experience: Windows Feature Experience Pack 1000.19041.1000.0

I also reread this resource: https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/2000016-guide-for-windows-update-settings-for-windows-10/

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DKThompson wrote:

(5) target product version for future updates [[PS – I had not changed the target product version from 21H2 to 22H2 – Not sure what impact that had on updates]]

Target Product Version should be “Windows 10″ or Windows 11” depending on which you want. (no quotes)
Target Release Version should be 22H2 (or 22H2/23H2 for Win11)

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Your are correct, I misspoke. My Target Product / Release Version is set as you described – Windows 10 and 22H2. Thanks for clarifying

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