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  • It’s time for my very unscientific poll

    Home » Forums » AskWoody blog » It’s time for my very unscientific poll

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    #2384051

    Over on Computerworld I’ve linked to my VERY unscientific poll of what you think about Windows 10 and Windows 11. I’ll report back in a few weeks as t
    [See the full post at: It’s time for my very unscientific poll]

    Susan Bradley Patch Lady

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    • #2384073

      At home, my sister and dad use iPads for their normal computer uses. They can search for information, answer emails and use the iPad to take photos — a task you couldn’t do on a Windows computer.

      But, but, but ………. my Windows computer has a Camera app on the start menu which lets me switch between front and back cameras. 😕

      Don’t most Windows laptops, tablets and convertibles all do that?

      Windows 10 Pro version 21H2 build 19044.1319 + Microsoft 365 (group ASAP)

      • #2384075

        I use my Chromebooks for those tasks, and for most everything involving the internet. I use my Windows computers primarily for software applications that run from where they are installed on the hard disk native to those computers (finance software, spreadsheets, etc.).

         

      • #2384087

        So you really walk around taking pictures with your laptop?  🙂

        Susan Bradley Patch Lady

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        • #2384089

          I could. You said I couldn’t. 😉

          Windows 10 Pro version 21H2 build 19044.1319 + Microsoft 365 (group ASAP)

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        • #2384100

          So you really walk around taking pictures with your laptop?

          I literally did use my laptop to take pictures of a Phosphoric Acid Pilot Plant project I was setting up/working on in 2011.

          Pilot-Plant

          Pilot-Plant-2

          Create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates, in case you need to start over!
          "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns
          "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware

          • #2384558

            You’re like Harpo Marx in “Horse Feathers”.  Groucho tells him he “can’t burn a candle from both ends”. Harpo immediately produces a double-ended candle. Then Groucho says, “Well I knew there was something you can’t burn from both ends. And I thought it was a candle.” Harpo then produces a blowtorch burning from both ends.

            -- rc primak

      • #2384552

        Susan Bradley wrote: At home, my sister and dad use iPads for their normal computer uses. They can search for information, answer emails and use the iPad to take photos — a task you couldn’t do on a Windows computer.

        But, but, but ………. my Windows computer has a Camera app on the start menu which lets me switch between front and back cameras. 😕 Don’t most Windows laptops, tablets and convertibles all do that?

        That is very hardware dependent. Windows also doesn’t have built in features and apps which could make even devices designed for photo taking work well from within the Windows software ecosystem. The addition of Android apps to Windows 11 may help with that dearth. (I don’t argue that the built-in Windows Camera App does nothing — it just does nothing well.)

        But I think Susan’s point is also that you can whip a phone out of your pocket much more easily than you can whip a laptop or convertible out of its carrying case. Especially during a traffic stop. (Oops — that’s getting political. Sorry, not sorry.)

        -- rc primak

    • #2384148

      Like many other laptops the Lenovo ThinkPad X1 has front and rear cameras.

      A friend of mine is a lettings agent and uses hers to take photos of rental properties. She says it’s far quicker and much more convenient using the X1’s rear camera, larger screen, stylus and built-in keyboard than trying to fat-finger the same process quickly with her Samsung tablet.

      She has to get round 20-30 properties a day and just couldn’t manage it with either an iPad or Android tablet. She has both… and neither are used any longer . So yes, there’s definitely a use for cameras on laptops.

      • #2384565

        And a phone was out of the question? With Cloud sync the photos could be shared with any laptop.

        -- rc primak

    • #2384236

      Last question of the poll is interesting – “what would you make to improve Windows 10?”

      I think the constant desire to “make Windows better” may be wrong. Why dont say, that Windows is good as it is? And I think, that Windows 10 are debugged very well these days.

      Dell Latitude E6530, Intel Core i5 @ 2.6 GHz, 4GB RAM, W10 20H2 Enterprise

      HAL3000, AMD Athlon 200GE @ 3,4 GHz, 8GB RAM, Fedora 29

      PRUSA i3 MK3S+

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      • #2384245

        I agree with Doriel. And that’s how I answered the poll question – with one qualification. I would want security improvements to continue.

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        • #2384560

          So then you don’t mind the new hardware requirements for Windows 11? Security these days doesn’t just mean software improvements.

          -- rc primak

          • #2384593

            This question was not for me, but..

            So then you don’t mind the new hardware requirements for Windows 11?

            I dont mind, there is nothing mandatory in having Windows 11. Windows 11 wallpapers can be downloaded to Windows 10 also 😉

            Dell Latitude E6530, Intel Core i5 @ 2.6 GHz, 4GB RAM, W10 20H2 Enterprise

            HAL3000, AMD Athlon 200GE @ 3,4 GHz, 8GB RAM, Fedora 29

            PRUSA i3 MK3S+

      • #2384299

        I also agree.

        Ultimately, Windows (and for that matter, Office) is a mature product, except, of course for security fixes.  There are very few sales that are to new customers that don’t already have the product, and thus, a lot of rent-seeking from existing customers.

        Although I know that there are lots of things in Office related to Enterprise installations, for user-facing stuff, I’ve seen very little in Office that is compelling that has been introduced since Office 97 or Office 2000.

        One other consideration is the difference between user-facing processes and what is under the hood.  I won’t suggest that there aren’t significant structural issues that can and should be addressed.

        I’m still skeptical about how Microsoft is presenting Windows 11, and I’m still having a hard time getting past the idea that it’s nothing more than a graphical refresh of Windows 10 (and being done to drive new sales).  However, there may be real security things in Windows 11 that are compelling, but they don’t really require changes on the user-facing side.

        For that matter, the UI of XP was “good enough”, even if many of us got used to Win 7 or Win 10 as more or less “good enough” (and not counting the UI disasters of Vista and Windows 8 and 8.1).  There really hasn’t been that much change underneath since the release of Vista. Where there has been change, it’s been far more evolutionary than revolutionary, despite Microsoft making major UI changes.

        That said, one positive of UI changes has been improvement of quality of graphical presentation (and use of newer video hardware), and even if I’m comfortable with the layout of XP or Win 7, the graphical quality implies “old and slow”, even if it’s not true.  I find the question of graphical quality to turn up frequently in open source projects, but that’s a different discussion

         

    • #2384237

      Mostly Meh on Windows 11. Just Windows 10 with tighter hardware requirements and a new UI which wasn’t really needed but I guess it’s job security for Windows team.

      • #2384300

        One thing that could be a part of Microsoft’s reasoning on forcing newer hardware might be something that’s more or less a hardware equivalent of the upgrade cadence of Windows.  With Windows, by forcing regular upgrades, then developers can’t ignore new features with “nobody has them” as an excuse (from older versions that haven’t been upgraded). If 2004 is the current minimum, then pretty much everybody has all the features that have been introduced up until them.

        With hardware, it may be that a significant source of support headaches for Microsoft is older equipment where updates can’t easily be deployed, if at all. That’s the physical hardware, as well as driver support.  By requiring newer hardware (and also dropping support for older system deployments), it may be part of the incentive is in making it much less likely that there are old machines that don’t get upgraded to current versions of Windows.

        • #2384569

          With Windows 11 it’s security and (Android Apps) virtualization which make such demands on hardware that older hardware just doesn’t make the cut anymore.

          -- rc primak

    • #2384318

      One of the things that personally turns me off about Win 10 (beside the mandated updates) are those new “releases”.  From what I’ve read above it seems that Win 10 has finally reached a point where new “releases” every few months are not necessary.

      Now, if they could whittle down the updates to just Security, and let the User determine what they want to change and when, that would make a good impression on me.

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    • #2384355

      Generally Win10 does what I want, when I want, and it stays out of the way (but is updated frequently enough based on 120-day feature deferrals and 14-day quality update deferrals).

      Every Win10 system I own is eligible for Win11 from a hardware perspective, including UEFI, SecureBoot, and even Bitlocker/TPM (since I can enable fTPM in each system’s BIOS). However, I don’t want Win11. Not as it is. I hate what they’ve done with the Start menu, mucking it up even worse than Win10’s is.

      I did just recently buy a Macbook Air M1 laptop and I absolutely love it. Build quality and battery life are absolutely top-notch. And, MacOS also does what I want, when I want, and it also stays out of the way.

      If they fix the Start menu, I may end up running Win11. If it were released tomorrow though, it would never hit any of my systems outside of a VM for farting around. If I ever reach a point where I cannot run Win10 anymore, from a security update perspective, I’ll start running the current (at the time) LTS of Ubuntu.

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      • #2384570

        Start 10 will be upgraded to Start 11. It fixes the “improvements” of both Windows 11 and Windows 10.

        -- rc primak

    • #2384371

      One issue that I think may not have been mentioned enough here already but is, in my opinion, central to the question of whether the coming of Windows 11 is going to be a good thing or not for many users, is the topic of this article:

      https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/25/22550376/microsoft-windows-11-tpm-chips-requirement-security

      If, as I understand it, in order to keep using a supported version of Windows, one first may have to buy a new computer even if one is happy with the machine one already has  — unless this has the TPM 2.0 chip already on the motherboard, even if this chip is not being used as yet (*).

      (*) “While Microsoft has required OEMs to ship devices with support for TPM chips since Windows 10, the company hasn’t forced users or its many device partners to turn these on for Windows to work. That’s what’s really changing with Windows 11, and combined with Microsoft’s Windows 11 upgrade checker, it has resulted in a lot of understandable confusion.

       

      Ex Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7) since mid-2020. Now: running macOS Big Sur 11.6 & sometimes, Linux (Mint)

      MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
      Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
      Waterfox "Current" and (now and then) Chrome. also Intego AV and Malwarebytes for the Mac.

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      • #2384389

        The good thing is, most newer Intel and AMD CPU’s have a built-in embedded TPM that can be enabled in the computer’s BIOS. Intel calls theirs PTT and AMD calls theirs fTPM. If you have a CPU with this functionality, you simply enable it in the BIOS – no need to buy a separate TPM module. More info here: https://helgeklein.com/blog/how-to-check-windows-tpm-status-enable-cpu-amd-ftpm-intel-ptt/

        Basically, the CPU TPM is no different than a motherboard TPM module. Most newer laptops come with TPM built-in to their motherboard, especially due to their portable nature. Most desktops do not come with a TPM module, outside of the one that may be embedded in the CPU. As I said in my previous post, all of my current Win10 systems have fTPM, as they are all Ryzen 3xxx series. Definitely check your CPU for compatibility before going out to buy a TPM module.

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        • #2384395

          Microsoft really needs to clear up this confusion, as basically people not-in-the-know will rush out to get fleeced for motherboard TPM modules that they may not necessarily need.

          No they dont need to. Its Microsoft’s method to promote sales of new devices.
          I really appreciate your desire to protect users, I am “on the same boat” as you are, but thats just not the way world works these days, users are expendable.

          Dell Latitude E6530, Intel Core i5 @ 2.6 GHz, 4GB RAM, W10 20H2 Enterprise

          HAL3000, AMD Athlon 200GE @ 3,4 GHz, 8GB RAM, Fedora 29

          PRUSA i3 MK3S+

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    • #2384408

      Its Microsoft’s method to promote sales of new devices.

      Here’s an alternative view of why Microsoft is specifying TPM… and it’s nothing to do with ‘assisting users to secure their devices’.

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      • #2384431

        … and it’s nothing to do with ‘assisting users to secure their devices’.

        But the anonymous authors say it is something to do with that:

        While the writers of this article will not deny that device attestation can bring excellent security for the standard consumers of the world,

        Windows 10 Pro version 21H2 build 19044.1319 + Microsoft 365 (group ASAP)

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        • #2384518

          Key word there is “can.” It “can” be used for security, but it can also be used for other things, as described in the rest of the sentence. If you read the excerpt in context, you can see that security is the excuse, and control is the real reason.

          More and more, it becomes obvious that Windows is, as the quote from War Games says, “A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.”

          Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon
          Dell G3 15/3579, i7-8750H/16GB, KDE Neon
          Asus P8P67 Deluxe, i5-2500k/16GB, KDE Neon

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          • #2384573

            So stop using Windows. The rest of us who don’t easily snap into Conspiracy Theory mode every time Microsoft is mentioned, will be happy to continue using Windows.

            But yes, I will prepare for the day when Linux will be my only operating system.

            Except for my streaming device, which all the major channels and services support totally and do not question. At least there I know it’s total lockdown and I have to pay for the premium content.

            -- rc primak

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      • #2384571

        Its Microsoft’s method to promote sales of new devices.

        Rick Corbett wrote:

        Here’s an alternative view of why Microsoft is specifying TPM… and it’s nothing to do with ‘assisting users to secure their devices’.

        I sincerely doubt that any Windows PC will ever have the degree of lockdown which many Android phones have. Nor will any large vendor refuse to serve content to “rooted” Windows PCs. ALL Windows PCs are presently “rooted”. Without Root Access, software and drivers could not be installed or updated, and most Windows programs could not run. The authors are simply promoting a conspiracy theory without the slightest evidence or proof of their concepts.

        -- rc primak

        • #2384592

          Linked article seems to be conspirational too much, but it raises good points!
          My opinion is, that introducing such functions, like unique ID, Apple ID or TPM identificatior has two effects – it protects user and it protects the vending company content.

          Why do you think the company will create unique ID? To protect user, or to protect its resources? By my opinion to protect its resources. But they will tell you, that they improved the experience/security and you need to login with email now, for example.

          Is this conspiracy, or is it really happening?

          Dell Latitude E6530, Intel Core i5 @ 2.6 GHz, 4GB RAM, W10 20H2 Enterprise

          HAL3000, AMD Athlon 200GE @ 3,4 GHz, 8GB RAM, Fedora 29

          PRUSA i3 MK3S+

          • #2384631

            Is this conspiracy, or is it really happening?

            Perhaps ask again if and when the ability to have a local account disappears, leaving you with an identifiable device linked to an identifiable Microsoft account? 🙂

            (I note other current topics about Edge hijacking file associations for PDF and Edge hijacking browser preferences. Is this conspiracy or is it really happening. 🙂 )

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            • #2384639

              Perhaps ask again if and when the ability to have a local account disappears, leaving you with an identifiable device linked to an identifiable Microsoft account?

              Already happened with Apple and its ID 🙂

              Best way to remain safe is to stay offline as much as possible. On the internet, you are product being sold to marketers. Thats not conspiracy, thats fact.

              Dell Latitude E6530, Intel Core i5 @ 2.6 GHz, 4GB RAM, W10 20H2 Enterprise

              HAL3000, AMD Athlon 200GE @ 3,4 GHz, 8GB RAM, Fedora 29

              PRUSA i3 MK3S+

            • #2384654

              Already happened with Apple and its ID

              That’s not exactly a good comparison IMO. The Apple ecosystem has *always* been closed like that and end-users  have *always* known what they were getting into.

              Now compare that with an OS that always *used* to pride itself on its configurability and had developers document and blog how to change this, that and the other… and now seems intent on totally reversing that by having more and more undocumented APIs, obfuscated registry settings and filepaths, removing TechNet documentation and making it increasingly more difficult for end-users to make changes to meet their own personal preferences. (For example, Windows 11 makes setting your default browser more complicated)

              I’ve seen comments that the change happened slowly but suddenly accelerated when Windows became free and end-users became both the product and the new de facto quality testers/guinea pigs.

              It’s not a ‘conspiracy theory’ to recognise an OS that was once immensely adaptable to one that is increasingly locked down. It’s recognition of the speed and direction of Redmond’s changing mindset to the current ‘take it or leave it’ attitude, hence why so many people are critical IMO.

              (I remember when I could ask a question in a Microsoft forum and sometimes get an answer from the likes of Raymond Chen or Mark Russinovich giving pearls of wisdom and insight into the inner workings of Windows.)

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            • #2384789

              I understand, Apple has been always like this and thats why are they so good in what they are doing. Windows was in some ways very liberal and users were able to do things as users wanted to.
              These days, its different.
              I know its not good comparsion. I just wanted to show, that is possible to it the Apple way, but Microsoft’s way seems little bit unfortunate to me and other criticising people. Like they simply forgot about the successfull past..
              Probably its not about “ruling the world” or making “big brother watching”, but in my opinion Microsoft is really abusing its users/betatesters/customers these days in order to make more money. I think the management stepped on the throttle pedal so hard, that Windows is loosing so many fans fast, including me.

              Dell Latitude E6530, Intel Core i5 @ 2.6 GHz, 4GB RAM, W10 20H2 Enterprise

              HAL3000, AMD Athlon 200GE @ 3,4 GHz, 8GB RAM, Fedora 29

              PRUSA i3 MK3S+

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        • #2384630

          I sincerely doubt that any Windows PC will ever have the degree of lockdown which many Android phones have.

          The topic is Windows 10 and 11. I don’t understand why you keep mentioning Android phones. It’s like trying to compare apples with oranges.

          • #2385345

            I sincerely doubt that any Windows PC will ever have the degree of lockdown which many Android phones have.

            rickcorbett wrote:

            The topic is Windows 10 and 11. I don’t understand why you keep mentioning Android phones. It’s like trying to compare apples with oranges.

            No, it’s not. It’s an an analogy, and a very close one. Closer than doriel’s Apple analogy.

            -- rc primak

    • #2384503

      Macs also have a security chip, call T2, that is a computer in itself and has the purpose of protecting the computer, not validating it to the Web sites one connects to. Unlike what seems will be the case with the TPM 2.0 for Windows PCs, although my own Mac predates the introduction of the first Macs with the T2 chip by two years or more (depending on the model), I have never had problems using my computer, getting full-rate videos, etc., etc.

      T2 has not been without its own issues due to bugs in its design, or that of its own software, that have been gradually, but not yet totally, fixed:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_T2

      But there seems to be no intention in any of this to rest control of the PC from the user. I would like to hear the opinions of those who are familiar with how the T2 chip works, comparing it to the TPM 2.0.

      Ex Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7) since mid-2020. Now: running macOS Big Sur 11.6 & sometimes, Linux (Mint)

      MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
      Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
      Waterfox "Current" and (now and then) Chrome. also Intego AV and Malwarebytes for the Mac.

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    • #2384627

      And a phone was out of the question? With Cloud sync the photos could be shared with any laptop.

      Of course it was out of the question.

      She barely has time to take the photos and type up the reports on the move between 20-30 different locations without either having to find different wi-fi passwords or use data allowance on 2 SIMs (phone and laptop) to transfer photos.

      (Note: The photos HAVE to be high quality – therefore multi-megabyte – so her bosses can zoom into detail in case of later disputes when the rental property is handed back.)

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    • #2384796

      how the T2 chip works, comparing it to the TPM 2.0.

      https://www.parallels.com/blogs/manage-mac/apple-t2-security-chip/

      On the technical level, the T2 chip is a new kind of Trusted Platform Module (TPM). But in fact, the T2 chip is involved in much more than just authentication and hardware integrity. The T2 device is also a solid state drive (SSD) controller, a controller for the MacBook® Touch ID® fingerprint sensor and more

      ps Parallels 17 for MacOS has TMP enabled in software.

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