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  • KB 4497165: Another Intel microcode update, another round of AMD stupidity

    Home Forums AskWoody blog KB 4497165: Another Intel microcode update, another round of AMD stupidity

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      • #2264344 Reply
        woody
        Da Boss

        While most of the Windows fanbase sat mesmerized by a very tiny mention in the Build conference — Project Reunion will bring together UWP and Win32!
        [See the full post at: KB 4497165: Another Intel microcode update, another round of AMD stupidity]

        6 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2264348 Reply
        pHROZEN gHOST
        AskWoody Lounger

        Microsoft is probably still trying to figure out why this happens.

        Byte me!

      • #2264349 Reply
        GCG1000
        AskWoody Plus

        It seems to have no noticeable effect on my AMD-based PC. Just another MS QC snafu!

        • #2264464 Reply
          noblame no gain
          AskWoody Lounger

          Woody?

          gmail just reported a post from your longue as possibly malicious?

          See screen cap below

          Moderator note: Edit for content.

          be well, breathe and honor wabi sabi

          Attachments:
          • #2264507 Reply
            Ascaris
            AskWoody_MVP

            It’s probably because the links to askwoody.com posts point to a different URL than the text of the link would indicate, a common trick used by malware.

            Google’s security stuff can be a real pain in the rump sometimes. I’ve had a number of legitimate messages (with attachments) to gmail recipients (like zip files) blocked because of the “risk.”  The zip files, for what it’s worth, were not password protected and contained only .jpgs, which their email scanner could easily have detected.

            My throwaway inbox is also clogged with Google “security alerts” from each and every time I log in any Google account (which I do mainly for things like signing in to Disqus; it’s Google, so I don’t trust them with anything important).  I get “critical security” alerts from time to time too, which they seem to sprinkle in for good measure.

            I really wish there was a “I’m an advanced user, give it a rest with your security nonsense”  setting. Fortunately, I don’t use Google accounts for anything that isn’t trivial, but it’s still annoying when I have to work around Google limitations when trying to send mail to people who use it.

            Group "L" (KDE Neon User Edition 5.18.5).

      • #2264351 Reply
        steeviebops
        AskWoody Lounger

        Installing this patch on an AMD-based system has no effect whatsoever, it won’t do any harm but it won’t improve anything either. All it does is updates mcupdate_GenuineIntel.dll. AMD-based machines read mcupdate_AuthenticAMD.dll instead.

        Ideally, Windows Update should see that it’s an AMD processor and not offer the update at all, but it’s benign regardless.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2264355 Reply
        geekdom
        AskWoody Plus

        https://www.catalog.update.microsoft.com/Search.aspx?q=KB4497165

        On my machine, it looks like this update was installed yesterday, May 19, 2020.

        I updated Visual Studio Community 2019 16.6.0 yesterday; no separate Microsoft update was initiated. Did KB4497165 come with the Visual Studio Community 2019 update?

        G{ot backup} TestBeta
        offline▸ Win7Pro SP1 x64 Storage
        online▸ Win10Pro 1909.18363.836 x64 i5-9400 RAM8GB HDD Firefox78.0b2 Windows{Image/Defender/Firewall}
        • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 2 days ago by geekdom.
      • #2264361 Reply
        John
        AskWoody Lounger

        I have basically written of these Spectre and Meltdown concepts as being too complex to achieve success in wild. These sort of proof of concepts won’t keep me up at night that’s for sure.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2264366 Reply
        Ascaris
        AskWoody_MVP

        As some of the other posters have said, it isn’t a problem to have Microsoft install the AMD microcode update on Intel systems. The system will simply ignore the microcodes it cannot use, including all of the AMD ones (on an Intel system) and all but one of the ones in the Intel package (there are dozens of them, and only one is the correct one for any given CPU).  MS doing this might not be a snafu at all (unless they already said it was), but simply a simplification of the process. The updates are tiny, so they’re not taking up much room, and it may just be easier for MS just to install any of them that come along and not have to worry about sorting them to the correct CPU type.

        Group "L" (KDE Neon User Edition 5.18.5).

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2264383 Reply
        EP
        AskWoody_MVP

        it’s another WU “metadata” detection change for KB4497165 – hence the new dates for it

        don’t know why MS has not figured out how to prevent WU from offering & pushing KB4497165 to AMD based processors

        the KB4497165 V4 MSU packages from MS Update Catalog are still the same ones I got from end of January 2020 – MS just changed the “last updated” dates

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2264389 Reply
        bhen
        AskWoody Lounger

        The update has been detected for awhile (on my devices, UpdateOrchestrator would sbow 2 updates but download only 1 for the last few months). So the only thing that appeared to change yesterday is that the update was now acknowledged/downloaded/installed. The intel updates from 2018/19 would be detected but not downloaded for awhile.

        I suspect the timing is a 2004 thing where they want the little update (just barely larger than the maximum file size for an attachment on here) to be installed before people start moving to the new version.

      • #2264444 Reply
        woody
        Da Boss

        I also note that @gamezenchill reported this update early this morning, here on AskWoody.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2264509 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        On my AMD system I had an older release of KB4497165 hidden. I just checked for updates using WUMT and was surprised to find it still hidden but with yesterdays date on the patch. I expected to have to hide it again.

      • #2264534 Reply
        lylejk
        AskWoody Plus

        Yeah; didn’t realize until too late and didn’t see a way to get out of it.  Turns out it installed like in a fraction of a second but required reboot which took another fraction.   lolol

        I suppose once the update figured my system was AMD, it didn’t install anything.  What the freak is happening at m$?   🙂

      • #2264559 Reply
        steeviebops
        AskWoody Lounger

        Yeah; didn’t realize until too late and didn’t see a way to get out of it.  Turns out it installed like in a fraction of a second but required reboot which took another fraction.   lolol

        I suppose once the update figured my system was AMD, it didn’t install anything.  What the freak is happening at m$?   🙂

        It does install the update but the boot loader (winload.exe or winload.efi) only loads the updated file if it detects an Intel processor. Pointless really, but at least it doesn’t break anything.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #2264680 Reply
          woody
          Da Boss

          But apparently it triggers a reboot. Yes?

          • #2264808 Reply
            steeviebops
            AskWoody Lounger

            But apparently it triggers a reboot. Yes?

            Yes, it does trigger a reboot, again pointless if installing Intel fixes on AMD.

      • #2264630 Reply
        DRW
        AskWoody Lounger

        I wondered if I needed to worry about this or not. Fortunately, using the GPEDIT functions of Pro, Microsoft can’t force me to take it.

        Maybe I missed it on the MS website, but it looks like my processor (9750H) wasn’t even listed. 🤷‍♂️

      • #2264645 Reply
        geekdom
        AskWoody Plus

        What’s the purpose in updating only the metadata?

        G{ot backup} TestBeta
        offline▸ Win7Pro SP1 x64 Storage
        online▸ Win10Pro 1909.18363.836 x64 i5-9400 RAM8GB HDD Firefox78.0b2 Windows{Image/Defender/Firewall}
      • #2264655 Reply
        Old Coot
        AskWoody Plus

        Lawrence Abrams (bleepingcomputer) says this update is being forced:

        “New Windows 10 Intel microcodes released in forced KB4497165 update”

        He said his computer had been restarted overnight to install it.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #2264681 Reply
          woody
          Da Boss

          Yep. Looks like many people (everybody?) who let their “Pause Updates” lapse got it. And got rebooted. Whether you’re running an Intel or AMD processor.

          All the more reason to pause updates, eh?

          This kind of activity — an unannounced, undocumented patch being pushed out Auto Updates, with a reboot to, uh, boot — should drive security people nuts.

          • #2264730 Reply
            DriftyDonN
            AskWoody Plus

            Paol Gibson has a free utility( Inspectre)that UNdoes these microcodes- at least up to this one- I have pause til next month so I wasn’t force fed msft code.

            "Vision without action is a daydream. Action without vision is a nightmare."

      • #2264656 Reply
        Old Coot
        AskWoody Plus

        I block these updates on our PCs using wushowhide,

        but if one gets through, I hope that it won’t affect performance.

        I remember a lot of angst about early microcode updates severely

        dragging down CPUs.

        • #2264690 Reply
          Ascaris
          AskWoody_MVP

          but if one gets through, I hope that it won’t affect performance. I remember a lot of angst about early microcode updates severely dragging down CPUs.

          Unfortunately, it was not just the early updates that could cause issues. I tracked down a lock-up issue in my Acer Swift laptop to a microcode update, and it was fully up-to-date at that time (dated January 2019, I believe, so a bit over a year old by now).  Rolling back to the previous microcode solved the problem, and it has not locked up since.

          If you were to have a problem with the microcode that was updated by Windows, it should be uninstallable.  It’s why I prefer my microcode updates to come as part of the OS rather than in the system firmware… they’re easier to revert if there is an issue.

          I would suggest letting the microcode update if some time has passed since it was released and there are no reports of problems.  Intel and AMD only release microcode updates when there is a good reason, and in the time since Spectre first appeared, it’s quite possible that more recent microcodes were created to fix performance or stability issues that earlier microcode updates triggered.

          If Intel releases a new one for my Swift’s CPU, I will let it install and see if it fixes the lockups.  If not, out it goes once again.

          Group "L" (KDE Neon User Edition 5.18.5).

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #2264751 Reply
            GoneToPlaid
            AskWoody Plus

            I totally agree. Reverting BIOS microcode updates can be a royal pain. Sometimes one has to type a keyboard sequence and then type in a special phrase into the motherboards’s BIOS update utility in order to install an older BIOS version which contains the older CPU microcode.

            1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2264752 Reply
        Lars220
        AskWoody Lounger

        Lawrence Abrams (bleepingcomputer) says this update is being forced:

        https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/new-windows-10-intel-microcodes-released-in-forced-kb4497165-update/

        “Microsoft has started to roll out a new version of the Windows 10 Intel Microcode KB4497165 update that is not optional, will automatically be installed, and your computer will be restarted”

        A scary and concerning comment at the Bleeping Computer article by nonsparks who posted:

        “I applied this patch this morning. My computer began crashing after reboot with WHEA UNCORRECTABLE ERROR. seems to be. Attempted to uninstall. At one point, got Recovery error 0xc0000001. Get it every time I try to reboot. Attempted full system restore, but same error. Tried fixing boot record, but getting access denied from the command prompt. I have a $1500 desk ornament. Microsoft support has not been especially helpful.”

        Thank you PKCano for posting the link to wushowhide so we can hide it. I wonder if we will hear more complaints about this microcode update, or if it is a limited “one off” above.

        • #2264754 Reply
          GoneToPlaid
          AskWoody Plus

          Whenever Microsoft issues new CPU microcode updates, it is best to hide such updates and wait a solid month in order to see if there are any bad issues, such as boot BSODs, which are related to any specific CPUs. It is also a good idea, and during that month, to Google the update KB number to see if gamers on gamer forums are separately reporting errors within their CPUs while bench testing their computers with the latest CPU microcodes. It was gamers who initially discovered and reported about Intel’s botched CPU microcodes which Intel initially released in order to mitigate Meltdown and Spectre.

          In around April or May 2018, or around four months after the news about Meltdown and Spectre became public, Microsoft pushed out another CPU microcode update KB for all Win10 computers. An idiot at MS obviously did not read Intel’s documentation which specifically mentioned that the new microcode for one specific CPU was problematic, with the obvious implication that this particular CPU microcode was not ready for release. Needless to say, that microcode update for that specific Intel CPU caused blue screens on Win10 computers which had this particular CPU on bootup.

          I don’t recall the forum posts about how to resolve the bootup blue screens caused by the flawed microcode. Yet hopefully those methods will work for any who have once again been bitten.

          Microsoft is just like Boeing. Neither company can go one month without being hit by flak in terms of their mistakes.

           

      • #2264765 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        Hi,

        For those of us who are  uninitiated with processor microcode updates, a quick  explanation:

        1. https://argonsys.com/microsoft-cloud/library/demystifying-microcode-updates-for-intel-and-amd-processors/
        2. https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/microcode-update
        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2268691 Reply
        dgc-art
        AskWoody Plus

        Just had this non-optional patch (KB4497165) installed on Windows 10 Pro 1909. After a restart my CPU went into overdrive and would not die down. It turned out that PDFProFiltSrv was permanently running and any attempt to end its task failed. I disabled this process several years ago via msconfig. May be it was a coincidence of timing in that it kicked back into action after KB4497165 was installed. PDFProFiltSrv is now disabled again and CPU is running normally.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #2268698 Reply
          woody
          Da Boss

          I hope it’s just an unlucky coincidence.

          So far I haven’t heard of any other reports, but… we both know how that goes…

      • #2268778 Reply
        Alex5723
        AskWoody Plus

        I disabled this process several years ago via msconfig.

        PDFProFiltSrv is not a Windows process but Nuance application.
        Why not uninstall Nuance ?

        • #2268822 Reply
          dgc-art
          AskWoody Plus

          Yes I know. I have Nuance PDF Pro 8 installed and use it all the time so I won’t be uninstalling it. The programme does not require PDFProFiltSrv to run and it can cause issues/conflict with Windows Search at times. Nuance are aware of this. It was odd that it kicked back in after KB4497165 was installed. Anyway, problem solved.

          • This reply was modified 3 days, 4 hours ago by dgc-art.
          1 user thanked author for this post.
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