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  • Keizer: Win10 usage increases, but Win7 is still holding its ground

    Home » Forums » AskWoody blog » Keizer: Win10 usage increases, but Win7 is still holding its ground

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    #201799

    June was an interesting month for usage share. Per Gregg Keizer: According to California-based analytics vendor Net Applications, Windows 10 added a f
    [See the full post at: Keizer: Win10 usage increases, but Win7 is still holding its ground]

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    • #201805

      Any Windows10 gains are not surprising, considering the fact that just about everywhere you go to buy a computer, the only choice you have is either Windows10 or a Chromebook. Corporate purchasing is different; not too many corporations are going to go to BestBuy or Walmart to get their computers; they will go online to Dell or HP and order what they want from there, where they will be able to choose Windows 7 if they like.

      I predict that many users who purchase the really cheap netbooks (with a 16GB or 32GB SSD) will soon abandon Windows10 when they find that the continually updating Windows10 chokes big-time with such a small amount of storage.

      Group "L" (Linux Mint)
      with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
      4 users thanked author for this post.
    • #201809

      Corporate purchasing is different; not too many corporations are going to go to BestBuy or Walmart to get their computers; they will go online to Dell or HP and order what they want from there, where they will be able to choose Windows 7 if they like.

      I don’t believe this is the case anymore, and I think it’s been this way for about a year or so now. IIRC, all BTO sites removed Win7 as a choice. That’s not to say you can’t find any Win7 machines out there – 2 jobs ago, we continued purchasing Win7 Pro machines either new or refurb from various sites (NewEgg, Amazon, Microcenter). Basically, anything already on a shelf somewhere is up for grabs, but anything built today will not give you the option of Win7. (For the record I’m not sure if 8.1 is still a choice for BTO either, though I’d imagine on the server side, you can most likely still pick its sibling, 2012 R2.)

      Furthermore, at least in my current role with a large org, any new machines (which I would assume come with Win10) are reimaged with 7 Enterprise. Supposedly they’re working on a Win10 rollout here, though I don’t have exposure to that here (whereas at my last job at another large org, I was an SCCM engineer during the finishing steps of their Win10 migration/rollout).

      • #201816

        Win 7 is still apparently available at Dell on their Xeon systems…

        ScreenGrab_NoelC4_2018_07_06_120531

        -Noel

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #201837

          Also on the OptiPlex 3050.

          Group "L" (Linux Mint)
          with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
          1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #201821

        Also from HP on the business side.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #201822

        Hmm, interesting. I thought this was pulled awhile back. I stand corrected 🙂

      • #201825

        Kinda futile though.
        1 1/2 years til EOL. If you are a consumer, you can choose to live without updates. But if you are an SMB, you can’t afford to do this. MY Dr’s office, dentist office, even the hospital I was visited yesterday are still running Win7. Who knows if their specialized programs will work on Win10. But they cannot afford legally to be without security updates. And they are obviously not E5.

        ot only that, you are buying a processor that is probably not the leading edge. Which means it’s support EOL will also be sooner.

        3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #201866

          While in theory that may be true, in practice there apparently are (or certainly were until recently at least in the UK, I can’t speak for elsewhere) still lots of hospital, doctors and dentists running XP, so it’s not unreasonable to assume that others will continue with Windows 7 well beyond the EOL.

          This is all the more likely the longer Microsoft continue to make their security updates more problematic than the hypothetical threats they’re supposed to be protecting against.

        • #201894

          In the medical field, some key software is written for a specific Windows release as that is what was approved by the regulators. Whether it will run on a later release is unknown and might be technically illegal (e.g. you can only run approved software on the approved OS version). Replacing/migrating the software is also probably well beyond the computer skills of your typical office staff. So does not happen.

          • #201914

            Not to mention that it would also be beyond their budget!

        • #202025

          If only doing security “Microsoft’s way” were something that delivered tangible benefits over what even a hobbyist could achieve I’d agree that business can’t survive without their support.

          Though it was never perfect, unfortunately, “Microsoft’s way” has now turned into a balancing act. Consider these leading questions about their recent behavior, which are surprisingly hard to answer unequivocally:

          • Has Microsoft delivered anything malicious or overtly harmful via a patch? (cough GWX cough)
          • Are Microsoft patches well-enough tested to meet your business needs?
          • Have any of Microsoft’s patches caused unacceptable performance loss in order to achieve “security”?
          • Are you confident in where they are headed, and that you want to take your business there? I.e., do you really WANT to partner with Microsoft?
          • Have you experienced security breaches even though you’ve kept systems patched?
          • Do you have a security environment that’s not “standard, Microsoft’s way” that’s actually proving to be MORE secure than theirs (with its obvious conflicts of interest built in)?

          There are many thought provoking reasons for this to not be cut and dried.

          -Noel

          3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #202341

          They could go with Windows 8.1, with Classic Shell, and configure it so that Windows 8.1 looks and feels just like Windows 7. Their specialized software would likely work in Windows 8.1; and this would give them three additional years – all the way till 2023.

          I know that most companies would never think of doing this. The only thing they know about Windows 8.1 is that it has a very different interface; and they have never heard of Classic Shell.

          Or, they could see if there is a MAC version of their specialized software. That is a very reasonable option for a small or medium-sized company.

          There are cases of companies using specialized legacy (i.e. old) software to do specific, important tasks; and they cannot easily replace that software. And with the new ever-changing nature of Windows10, the risk of their software not working due to a Window10 update is greater than the pain of upgrading to Windows 8.1 or of switching to the MAC.

          Group "L" (Linux Mint)
          with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
          3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #201828
      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #201844

        Steve Gibson’s   “never 10” is still available to down load for free.

      • #201920

        I just installed 7 a few days ago and Microsoft told me very clearly I was running an outdated OS and suggested a few times to use 10 instead… But I didn’t have any issue with it installing SP1, then 126 patches in one shot and they didn’t force me on 10 or anything.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #202352

          Since when is 7 outdated?

          Wait a minute, is it 2020 already?

          Group "L" (Linux Mint)
          with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
          2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #202355

          I installed Windows 7 recently, and by avoiding all telemetry updates, I did not/do not have to deal with diagtrack or CompatTel… because they do not exist on my system. It actually feels really good…

          Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter

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      • #201928

        Shame on those people on reddit for not installing the KB3184143 update onto their Win7 systems if they don’t want a Win10 upgrade prompt (and perhaps failing to hide/block KB2952664 & some other non-essential Win7 updates)

        If they have not obtained the KB3184143 update or if Windows Update does not offer it, just download & install that update to remove all Win10 upgrade offers.

        well, AlexEiffel, check if you have the KB3184143 update installed onto your Win7 machine and make sure that KB2952664 is NOT installed or removed from your computer.

        I think I’ll slipstream/integrate that KB3184143 update onto my Win7 SP1 installation media in case I do a fresh install of Win7 SP1 on an old computer.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #202026

          Does anyone know if the person or persons are still employed at Microsoft who, in the process of forcing the engineers to code in stuff like GWX, utterly destroyed their reputation as a supplier of serious productivity software?

          Leading question: When a company issues a patch to remove a malicious feature, when can you trust them again?

          -Noel

          2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #202342

        Could this be an unexpected return of GWX?

        It wouldn’t surprise me. And it doesn’t hurt anything to install software to block a Windows 10 upgrade.

        Group "L" (Linux Mint)
        with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #202443

          I’ve never uninstalled GWX Control Panel. I’ve never seen a reason to do so.

    • #201831

      Copied from the thread for “Win10 usage share stagnating” (posted before this was):

      Doing some estimates based on Keizer’s current & previous articles, here’s how the breakdown for all Windows systems comes out: Out of all PC’s, Win10 nnnn 35.7%, Win8/8.1 6.1%, Win7 41.7%, Win Vista 0.3 (0.4?)%, Win XP 4.1 (4.0?)%. That gives me the 87.9% total, which should mean Apple (macOs/OS X) & Linux (distros/Chrome OS?) have 12.1%. Yet Keizer’s figures for Apple are at 9.7% & for Linux at 1.9%, which adds up to 11.6%. The 0.5% difference is probably statistical; I would think there would be more Chromebooks around to account for more than 0.5%

      As for the breakdown for strictly Windows: Win10 40.4%, Win8/8.1 6.9%, Win7 47.3%, Win Vista 1.3 (1.4?)%, Win XP 4.1(4.0?)%.

      2 Machines for Now!
      #1: Windows 8.1, 64-bit, back in Group A.
      #2: Getting close to buying a refurbished Windows 10 64-bit, recently updated to v1909. Have broke the AC adapter cord going to the 8.1 machine, but before that, coaxed it into charging. Need to buy new adapter if wish to continue using it.
      Wild Bill Rides Again...

    • #201838

      It’s getting harder to find Windows 7 refurbished computers, but you can still find them; and you can still find some Windows 8 refurbished computers.

      Here are a whole bunch of refurbished Dell OptiPlex computers with Windows 8.1:

      https://www.dellrefurbished.com/desktop-computers?filter_operating_system=209&limit=50

      Group "L" (Linux Mint)
      with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
      3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #201841

      I am not surprised by the durability of Windows 7.  The Windows XP to Windows 7 transition demonstrated eloquently how many systems were running that could not or would not be upgraded to Windows 7 even up to EOL, XP in that case.

    • #201843

      Here is a nice refurbished computer for $419:
      Dell OptiPlex 9020 Small Form Factor
      * Windows 8.1 Professional 64-bit
      * Haswell chip – not bitten by the Windows 7/8.1 auto-update bug
      * DisplayPort, DVI, and VGA video. It appears to have multiple DisplayPort video ports, which means that you could plug in multiple monitors.
      * PS/2 keyboard and mouse ports
      * RS-232 serial port!
      * 6 USB2 ports, 4 USB3 ports
      * 8 GB RAM
      * 500 GB hard drive
      * DV-RW drive

      https://www.dellrefurbished.com/desktop-computers/dell-optiplex-9020-138924.html

      Group "L" (Linux Mint)
      with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #201856

        Hmmm and did I spy easy access to the case? surely a good candidate for an SSD. With, hopefully, Legacy/UEFI and Secure boot enable/Disable in the BIOS (for Win7x64 fans), seems I could well have underestimated “The Power of Dell” 🙂

        • #202588

          I have a small Haswell system that boots and runs from a 4 SSD RAID array. It’s very, very responsive.

          -Noel

      • #202080

        These Dell refurbs are good, very durable PCs that would be a good basis for a home, but non-gaming, PC.  This one is decently specced with 8GB ram in dual channel (many are 4GB with a single stick) and a fast i5.

        On the ones I have looked at the HDD is often not a 7200 RPM drive and is slooooow (as most were corporate leases, lowest bid often won out).  An SSD would be a big improvement.  Additionally the power supply has minimal overhead, often being under 300 watts (mini-tower is 290, SFF is 255, and some of the older ones were proprietary), which along with the case size limits your discrete video options.

        However these were never intended for gaming, so buying one to convert is trying to make a racecar from a minivan.

        They are however great for a Linux box or a cheap home theater PC.  My first step would be to uninstall the GWX enabling patch and the telemetry ones for Win8.1.

        It is also a good choice for a peson with older peripherals since it has a parallel post for a printer (yes, many HP Laserject IIs are still working and you can get toner), and serial ports, along with USB 2 and 3.

    • #201847

      I bought a Dell OptiPlex 5050 last December.  It came with Windows 10 Pro, but I had downgrade rights, which I invoked.  It shipped with Win 7 Pro, but the Win 10 license is saved in BIOS–waiting, I suppose, for the moment I see the light.

      I wonder if this counts as a Windows 7 sale or a Windows 10 sale?  The latter, possibly, since that’s the way the box was sold.  Could it possibly be considered a Windows 10 “active device”?  If so, this may enhance MSFT’s Win 10 lies da***ed lies statistics.

    • #201887

      On 02 July 2018, the published Netmarketshare(= Net Applications) numbers for June 2018 were completely different, ie Win 10 numbers was stagnant while Win 7 numbers increased by >1%. …
      https://news.softpedia.com/news/windows-10-still-can-t-keep-up-with-windows-7-521790.shtml

      What happened ?

      • #201897

        Different ways of measuring usage is the most likely cause. But stepping back, one should look at the overall picture. Windows 7 has half more or less of all the active Windows machines even with the massive push and that it is not readily available in your typical retail outlet. Also, the rates of change of 7 vs 10 indicates at 7’s EOL it will have a very large share of the Windows market; probably about 30 to 40%. This is rather large number of boxes still running 7 and will be running 7 for some time.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #201952

      I’ve been seeing on different forums that Microsoft is trying to force pc’s to upgrade to Win 10 again..

      • #201993

        If you have evidence of this, it would be much appreciated 🙂

        | Quality over Quantity |
        • #202343

          About eight months ago, I worked on a computer that had been off for a couple of months. When I powered it on, the first thing it did was try to upgrade itself to Window10. (It was a Windows 8.1 computer.) So here is a case of GWX occurring 10 months ago, long after the supposed end of that program.

          The only way that we “know” that GWX has ended is because Microsoft says it has ended. But I have a hard time trusting anyone who interprets my hitting the red X in the upper right of the screen as ‘yes’.

          Group "L" (Linux Mint)
          with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
          5 users thanked author for this post.
          • #202345

            I continue to read of forced Windows10 upgrade. Windows 10 is zombie.

            On Hiatus {with backup and coffee}
            offline▸ Win10Pro 2004.19041.572 x64 i3-3220 RAM8GB HDD Firefox83.0b3 WindowsDefender TRV=1909 WuMgr
            offline▸ Win10Pro 20H2.19042.685 x86 Atom N270 RAM2GB HDD WindowsDefender WuMgr GuineaPigVariant
            online▸ Win10Pro 20H2.19042.804 x64 i5-9400 RAM16GB HDD Firefox86.0 WindowsDefender TRV=20H2 WuMgr
            1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #201972

      I’ve been seeing on different forums that Microsoft is trying to force pc’s to upgrade to Win 10 again..

      I’m guessing after a few million more Windows 7 machines are “accidentally upgraded” to Windows 10 we’ll be seeing the all too familiar “Oops, sorry – we made (another) mistake, that wasn’t supposed to happen” line from MS.

      Gets a bit tiresome after a few years. And, why they’ve been allowed to get away with this sort of behaviour for the past 3 years continues to escape me.

      Gigabyte GA-B250M-D3H Motherboard, Intel i5-7600 CPU, 32GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1065 Graphics Card, 1x Samsung 870 EVO 250GB SSD, 1x Samsung 860 EVO 250GB SSD, Windows 10 Professional 21H1 64bit.

      3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #202353

        why they’ve been allowed to get away with this sort of behaviour for the past 3 years continues to escape me.

        What do you suggest we do about it?

        Group "L" (Linux Mint)
        with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
        • #202360

          I keep my Win7 box set to manual updates only.  And I check that any recommended updates to be applied are only ones that are clearly safe.

        • #202590

          DOJ used to care about what monopolies did…

          -Noel

          1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #201976

      How come your numbers from the same source on 02 July 2018 were different and showed the opposite? …

      Win10 usage share stagnating

    • #201982

      Microsoft might be trying to forced Windows 10 again

      https://twitter.com/Princess_Grassp/status/1014340965992022017

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #202044
    • #202081

      Another Reddit user got a prompt to upgrade to Windows 10: https://www.reddit.com/r/windows/comments/8wubr3/windows_7_user_i_believe_windows_is_forcing_me_to/

      From a quick read of that thread, it appears that MS had a dedicated scare-net advocating upgrades to Win10, by talking security (ransomeware) and EOL (‘soon’).

      Coincidently, I re-activated the GWX Control Panel about 2 months ago since I got a feeling this might happen.  I still check WU after every update to verify it remains set to “do not check.”  Fool me once, etc.

      2 users thanked author for this post.
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