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  • Looks like installing a clean Win10 version 1903 Home forces you to use a Microsoft Account

    Home Forums AskWoody blog Looks like installing a clean Win10 version 1903 Home forces you to use a Microsoft Account

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      • #1970576 Reply
      • #1970601 Reply
        BobbyB
        AskWoody Lounger

        Its been prudent for a few years now to install Win10 Ver’s ?? with any network disconnected.
        It gives you time to set up the preferred update deferral strategy of choice, remove unwanted UWP apps before they get the chance to install and update them selves, block unwanted Drivers and limit the level of Telemetry or Snooping.
        Not for every machine where leaving the net on is a positive time saver, but definitely efficacious for those that want to limit the Snooping, drivers and unwanted updates etc.
        Curious thing with Win 10 1909 soon to hit the street’s near you, is that once you resume the Net or Wireless there’s a blue screen that flashes up that attempts to encourage you to sign up for an M$ Account, but once dismissed it never reappears again. That could be the Aria Win10 1909 Version of the 1909 image that I downloaded over the weekend. No doubt we’ll hear if this is to become a another permanent annoyance all too soon.

        6 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1970603 Reply
        NetDef
        AskWoody_MVP

        Really easy work-around to avoid the hoop jumping.

        Do the final stages of the install offline — as in pull the network cord out (or disable Wi-Fi.) When the first user account setup cycle begins and you are OFFline, it will default to creating a local account.

        Once that account is created, go back online to get your updates, download Chrome or Firefox etc . . .

        You will be pestered at least once to convert to a Microsoft account, but that’s easy to opt-out at that point.

        Edit: I see BobbyB beat me to it . . . 😉

        ~ Group "Weekend" ~

        • This reply was modified 12 months ago by NetDef.
        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1970630 Reply
        Carl D
        AskWoody Lounger

        I’ve been saying and doing this for a long time now but it is essential that Windows 10 be installed without an Internet connection (I pull the ethernet cable).

        Not just to make sure you’re not “tricked” into using a Microsoft account, but to also make sure you don’t get Candy Crush and most of the other junk that comes with W10 (assuming you don’t want it).

        And, you need to turn off and remove the live tiles from the Start Menu (the blank ones with the little arrows that say “A great app is on it’s way” when you hover the mouse pointer over them) or you’ll still get most or all of the junk installed as soon as you connect to the Internet.

        I also go through and adjust all of my privacy settings, etc. and make sure you have your drivers installed (from the manufacturer’s websites) before allowing W10 to connect to the Internet.

        Gigabyte GA-B250M-D3H Motherboard, Intel i5-7600 CPU, 32GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Graphics Card, 1x Samsung 860 EVO 250GB SSD, 1x Samsung 850 EVO 250GB SSD, Windows 10 Professional 2004 64bit.

        • #1970665 Reply
          Carl D
          AskWoody Lounger

          Also, forgot to add (too late to edit my previous post):

          If you use additional “Standard” user accounts like I’m sure most of us do, you need to make sure the PC is disconnected from the Internet before signing into the Standard account(s) for the first time or you will get Candy Crush, etc. installed even if you’ve avoided it all in the Administrator account.

          Also make sure the Start Menu live tiles with the little arrows are turned off and removed in the Standard accounts before connecting to the Internet, of course.

          Gigabyte GA-B250M-D3H Motherboard, Intel i5-7600 CPU, 32GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Graphics Card, 1x Samsung 860 EVO 250GB SSD, 1x Samsung 850 EVO 250GB SSD, Windows 10 Professional 2004 64bit.

      • #1970638 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        This move is necessary in order to build presentable stats that “75% of users now sign in with a Microsoft account”, so that the option for an offline account can then be eliminated entirely, and then the subscription charges to use your own computer will come.

        If everything goes smoothly, people who are new to computers will not even know that an offline account (and the naturally more private computing experience that comes along with it) was ever an option in the first place.

        In addition to the tactics they used to push Windows 10, moves like this are why I won’t fix PCs for people anymore. I will not play a part in the construction of a world that is this messed up. It’s like building my own prison.

        8 users thanked author for this post.
        • #1971099 Reply
          radosuaf
          AskWoody Lounger

          That is a pretty scary post. Makes me rethink installing W8.1 again. I have to clean install anyway. The only gripe I have is AMD no longer updating their 8.1 drivers. but let’s see how those from 2017 work out. I’m not playing latest games anyway.

          MSI H110 PC MATE * Intel Core i5-6402P * 2 x 8 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2133 MHz * Aorus Radeon RX 570 4GB * Samsung 840 EVO 250GB SSD * Western Digital Blue 1TB HDD * Seagate Barracuda 1TB HDD * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer PCI * Windows 10 Pro 2004 64-bit
          • #1975636 Reply
            anonymous
            Guest

            FYI, most of the Win7 drivers for AMD cards install and work fine, they even secretly include Win8.1 fixes now and then. They’re just not “officially” supported and the upgrade advisor will always recommend you “upgrade” to the 2 year old drivers.

        • #1971466 Reply
          sproket90
          AskWoody Lounger

          In addition to the tactics they used to push Windows 10, moves like this are why I won’t fix PCs for people anymore. I will not play a part in the construction of a world that is this messed up. It’s like building my own prison.

          this is why I am making a concerted effort to move everything that I can to Linux.

           

      • #1970857 Reply
        Ascaris
        AskWoody_MVP

        And the noose tightens… expect it to happen more and more as the Windows 7 holdouts disappear through attrition.  We’re almost to the “no more Mr. Nice Guy” stage.  It should be, erm, interesting to watch.

        Joel Hruska at ExtremeTech has some sharp words for Microsoft as well.

        The bottom line is… why shouldn’t Microsoft do this?  It’s been evident for years that quaint notions like ethical treatment of their own customers are out of the window with the “new” Microsoft, and have been ever since the first days of GWX, before Windows 10 was released.  They’re successfully locking more Windows users into the “10” prison every month, and it continues even as the window dressing to make the prison look less prison-y falls to the floor.  If the pushback for any single transgression in the never-ending series gets too strong, Microsoft will back it out to the smallest degree possible, pull another “aw, shucks,” and people will once again thank them for “listening” and let them get away with doing something they never should have even tried in the first place– and all the while, Microsoft will be planning the next transgression, and the one after that.

        Group "L" (Fedora 32 Linux w/ KDE Plasma).

        11 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1970916 Reply
        Susan Bradley
        AskWoody MVP

        I’ve done it without with online access and confirmed that others have too.  It’s EASIER having it offline, but not impossible.

        (sorry wrote without, meant with)

        Susan Bradley Patch Lady

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #1970921 Reply
          b
          AskWoody Plus

          Did you mean with? 🤔

      • #1971105 Reply
        n2ubp
        AskWoody Lounger

        Yesterday I installed Win 10 Home 1809 from a one year old DVD onto a clients 10 year old laptop with a new hard drive. The laptop had WiFi Internet access. Sure enough the install process demanded I create an online microsoft e-mail address and did not present an option to create an offline Windows 10 account. I created a burner outlook.com address and after installation was complete went to settings and converted the online account to an offline account. I will not make the mistake of allowing an Internet connection during install again in the future.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #1971124 Reply
        GreatAndPowerfulTech
        AskWoody Plus

        Really easy work-around to avoid the hoop jumping.

        Do the final stages of the install offline — as in pull the network cord out (or disable Wi-Fi.) When the first user account setup cycle begins and you are OFFline, it will default to creating a local account.

        Once that account is created, go back online to get your updates, download Chrome or Firefox etc . . .

        You will be pestered at least once to convert to a Microsoft account, but that’s easy to opt-out at that point.

        Edit: I see BobbyB beat me to it . . . 😉

        • This reply was modified 12 months ago by NetDef.

        A local account was called a “limited user account” during setup of a clean install of W10 v.1903 on a customers laptop a couple of days ago. That was an odd thing for Microsoft to do. Most of my customers are seniors, or close to retirement, that have absolutely no desire to give Microsoft any of their information. I just unplugged the NIC cable and started over.

        I discuss these issues with customers that are interested. Many choose to stay with Windows because it’s familiar. Lately, some have purchased Chromebooks and still get everything done that they need to, with a lower cost machine. Our early 20’s aged customers learned on Chromebooks in school and keep using them at home, even if they use Windows on the job. They’ve told me Chromebooks are superior, as in easier to use and manage.

        GreatAndPowerfulTech

        • #1971247 Reply
          b
          AskWoody Plus

          Lately, some have purchased Chromebooks and still get everything done that they need to, with a lower cost machine. Our early 20’s aged customers learned on Chromebooks in school and keep using them at home, even if they use Windows on the job. They’ve told me Chromebooks are superior, as in easier to use and manage.

          Is a Google account required to set up a Chromebook?

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #1973248 Reply
            Alex5723
            AskWoody Plus

            Is a Google account required to set up a Chromebook?

            Yes and No 🙂

            Do you want to use your Chromebook without a Google Account? It is possible to log in to your Chromebook as a “guest”. As a guest user you have access to the Chrome-browser, but it is not possible to gain access to the cloud. This means you can not edit documents or use other applications on your Chromebook.

            Why do I need a Google Account?

            1 user thanked author for this post.
            b
            • #1973353 Reply
              b
              AskWoody Plus

              b wrote:
              Is a Google account required to set up a Chromebook?

              Yes and No 🙂

              Thanks. But the yes answers at that link seem to outweigh the no answer you selected:

              For optimal use of your Chromebook it is important you create a Google Account. You need a Google Account to gain access to the cloud. With your Google Account you create a user profile on your Chromebook and you are able to easily install applications like Google Drive. Furthermore, you can access your cloud-saved documents from every device and location. In the event your Chromebook is out of order or lost, you can log in to your Google Account from another device and resume what you were working on.

              *Important! To become the “owner” of your Chromebook it is necessary to create a Google Account. The account with the owner rights is the only account with which you can change certain settings of your Chromebook. The Google Account with which you first sign on will be set as the “owner” account of your Chromebook.

              So why is an account requirement acceptable for a Chromebook but the merest suggestion of all the advantages of a Microsoft account on Windows 10 is treated with disdain and suspicion?

              It can’t be because Google’s snooping/tracking is less insidious than Microsoft’s anonymized telemetry, can it?

            • #1973535 Reply
              anonymous
              Guest

              There is also a hint of a difference between using a chromebook that has already been set up with a Google account for administrative purposes by using a guests restricted access. Compare to attempting to set up a new installation by never linking to a Google account. I doubt it is only a difference of word choice.

      • #1971242 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        Chromebooks? Google vs MSFT? It is like voting in an election–pick the lesser evil.

        3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1971245 Reply
        Moonshine
        AskWoody Lounger

        Still getting October 2019, 1903 Offline Local Account options at my end.

        • This reply was modified 12 months ago by Moonshine.
        1 user thanked author for this post.
        b
        • #1971568 Reply
          b
          AskWoody Plus

          Home or Pro?

      • #1971251 Reply
        John in Mtl
        AskWoody Lounger

        Here’s another example of tricking users into thinking an option is not available: at the beginning of the summer, Ebay changed the colour of the  check box “stay signed in” from blue to light grey – the kind of light grey that suggests the option is “greyed out” and thus not available (when in fact it is!).  Of course, the check mark is in the box, effectively tricking you into thinking you have no choice but to stay signed in to all of the linked accounts.  This way, Ebay, Google & Facebook  can keep tracking you everywhere you go and gather interesting data about you!

        • This reply was modified 12 months ago by John in Mtl.
        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #1971259 Reply
        John in Mtl
        AskWoody Lounger

        IMHO, from a strictly security point of view, one should never install an OS while the box is connected to the internet and not yet patched with security updates.  That’s my modus operandi anyways.  Of course, you need access to another machine to download the patches, drivers and other software and store them on suitable media for use on the new box; so it might be a problem or a hassle for some people.

      • #1971261 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        Like the post above, I’m finding it interesting to see the steps play out.  I’m trying not to veer into conspiracy theory territory, which is easy and tempting, yet this trend is not going to good places for the consumer.

        We’re seeing a tendency now that if you can be online, you must be online.  Not everyone has internet – does that mean we’re approaching a time where if that’s the case, you’re not allowed to use technology that’s internet-capable?

        I’ve been losing ground for years, one flag at a time.

        – The introduction of a Microsoft account for installing Windows.  No problem, I just won’t use that option.

        – The shift of the Microsoft account being the default for installing Windows.  No problem, I’ll just click the microscopic “not now” text.

        – The shift of the local account option being hidden behind a disconnected network cable.

        So what’s in the future?

        – Will they force you to use an account or not use Windows?  I can always create a fake account.

        – Will fake accounts become a violation of some kind, perhaps bolstered with the dismantling of network neutrality?  I can always buy my own domain and set up my own email server to better control my account.

        – Will there be restrictions on people setting up their own domains and email servers so that companies like Microsoft will always have your real data?  I can always refrain from using the product entirely…

        You’ll notice if I do a free slide down the slippery slope, it takes more and more IT expertise to dodge the invasion of privacy.  Sure it’s easy for me and many others here to build their own domains, but that’s hardly common.  Moving to Linux is probably harder for some people than setting up a domain, but simple for people here.

        It’s the 99% this is hurting, not the people who are already aware of the dangers.  That’s why I walk the knifes-edge and allow Microsoft to pull the telemetry off my devices.  For me it’s a conscious choice and I can cut them off at any time with a firewall rule.  But what about everyone else?

        4 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1971473 Reply
        abbodi86
        AskWoody_MVP

        Clash from the past 🙂

        Windows 10 Home No Longer Giving Offline Account Option

        the phone trick didn’t work for me, i had to disconnect (disable) internet, press back then next to get the option

        Home N don’t have that restriction, probably because of EU laws

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #1971502 Reply
        b
        AskWoody Plus

        But I’ve also seen many reports that folks clean installing 1909 didn’t have that option — when you set up a new machine with 1909, you have to use a Microsoft account. I figured I’d wait until I have the final, shipping, bits before kicking the tires and raising the roof.

        Where are these many folks getting 1909 RTM from for a clean install when it’s not released yet?

        • #1971509 Reply
          woody
          Da Boss

          That’s precisely the problem.

          I’m not going to start kvetching about it until I can work with the shipping bits. There are just too many parts that can change.

          • #1972247 Reply
            Rick Corbett
            AskWoody_MVP

            kvetching

            Thank you, Woody (seriously), for expanding my vocabulary…. I had to look this word up in order to understand the meaning and context.

            (There’s several other words here on this forum that I don’t yet understand… but I will do…)

      • #1971755 Reply
        alkhall
        AskWoody Lounger

        I am truly amazed and confounded that people tolerate this blatant chicanery.

      • #1971768 Reply
        anonymous
        Guest

        I’ve fooled it successfully by entering test as the ms account and test as the password. It responds with “there’s a problem with your MS account”, and then proceeds to allow me to create a local user.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1971936 Reply
        lurks about
        AskWoody Plus

        The more MS does this type of trickery the more I will refuse to use any MS product at home. At work, I have to but do not get me started on all the wacky problems I have at work, life is too short.

      • #1972106 Reply
        Rick Corbett
        AskWoody_MVP

        I’ve never had a problem (setting a local account) clean-installing 1903.

        (Maybe irrelevant but, installing 1909, I just chose the ‘I don’t have internet’ option [bottom left of OOBE] then the subsequent ‘Continue with limited setup’ option.

        Umm… how hard was that?

        Just keep eyes peeled for MS shenanigans… but don’t fret… (unless @Woody tells you to fret…)

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #1972157 Reply
          CADesertRat
          AskWoody Plus

          Glad to see you are still around Rick. I’m still on 1809 but I always do my uninstalls offline so I doubt that I will have a problem either, LOL.

          Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does 🙂
          4 Win 10 Pro at 1909 (3 Desktops, 1 Laptop).

          • #1972163 Reply
            Rick Corbett
            AskWoody_MVP

            @CADesertRat Thank you for your kind words. I just had to take some time out.

            • #1972219 Reply
              Rick Corbett
              AskWoody_MVP

              @CADesertRat–  Just bear in mind that I installed 1909 [via UUPDump] (which I do not recommend for *anybody*)… just as a test.

              The install of Win 10 1909 via this method worked for me perfectly on a Dell Latitude E7450 laptop straight out of the box.

              I’d show you a screenshot… but they’re easily faked. Suffice to say that winver shows Version 1909 (OS build 18363.387).

              Next, I’m going to wipe the laptop yet again and re-install using the Windows 10 Decrapifier script, i.e. pausing at the MS OOBE (Out Of the Box Experience).

              Hope this helps…

              1 user thanked author for this post.
              • #1979834 Reply
                Carl D
                AskWoody Lounger

                Rick,

                just out of curiosity, I used UUPDump to download 1909 yesterday and clean installed it (Windows 10 Professional) onto a spare SSD drive after using Rufus to put the ISO onto a thumb drive.

                The install went without a problem (I had the PC disconnected from the Internet, as always) but I notice it says “Evaluation Version” at the bottom right hand corner of the screen.

                Just wondering what will happen if I go online with this? Will it activate automatically as normal and the “Evaluation Version” message disappears? I never went as far as going online with it and I’ve gone back to my 1903 SSD which I’m using now.

                From what I saw of 1909 before I went back to 1903, it doesn’t look any different apart from a few ‘cosmetic’ changes (although I only looked at it for about 5 minutes).

                Might try using the 1909 ISO to update my 1903 next (I have Macrium images to recover if it all goes ‘pear shaped’, of course).

                Gigabyte GA-B250M-D3H Motherboard, Intel i5-7600 CPU, 32GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Graphics Card, 1x Samsung 860 EVO 250GB SSD, 1x Samsung 850 EVO 250GB SSD, Windows 10 Professional 2004 64bit.

              • #1979860 Reply
                Rick Corbett
                AskWoody_MVP

                I notice it says “Evaluation Version” at the bottom right hand corner of the screen.

                Strange. Are you sure you downloaded the ‘current’ release of 1909 (i.e. 18363.418)? That sounds more like the ‘Next’ version (i.e. 18970.1005).

                What’s the filename of your UUP Dump download?

                1 user thanked author for this post.
              • #1979861 Reply
                Carl D
                AskWoody Lounger

                The zip file I downloaded was 18999.1_amd64_en-us_all_7268dbc9_convert but rechecking it now, it is an Insider Preview. Oops. Looks like I wasn’t paying enough attention.

                I’ve just downloaded 18363.418_amd64_en-us_all_3cef64fc_convert and I’ll have a go with it later. As you know, it takes a while to download all the relevant parts to create the ISO.

                Thanks.

                 

                Gigabyte GA-B250M-D3H Motherboard, Intel i5-7600 CPU, 32GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Graphics Card, 1x Samsung 860 EVO 250GB SSD, 1x Samsung 850 EVO 250GB SSD, Windows 10 Professional 2004 64bit.

              • #1979866 Reply
                PKCano
                Da Boss

                I believe that the Insider FAST Ring Build (20h1)

                1 user thanked author for this post.
              • #1979883 Reply
                Carl D
                AskWoody Lounger

                OK, now this is also very strange?

                I downloaded 18363.418_amd64_en-us_all_3cef64fc_convert, unzipped and ran the Command Prompt, waited until it downloaded all the relevant files and created the ISO.

                The link I used was the 4th one down on this page:

                https://uupdump.ml/

                I made sure prior to the download that I selected all versions (Home and Professional) and I watched the Command Prompt window during the download and I saw that it was supposed to be downloading the Professional components.

                Yet, after the ISO file was created and I used Rufus to make the bootable install media all I get for the choices at the start of the clean install are Windows 10 Home and Windows 10 Home N??? No option for Professional whatsoever?

                I have done this twice now just to make sure I didn’t make a mistake and there were no issues with the downloads but I get the same result both times – no option for Windows 10 Professional during the install, Only Home??

                The ISO file created is 18362.1.190318-1202.19H1_RELEASE_CLIENTMULTI_X64FRE_EN-US

                and it is 4.08GB in size.

                Might just have to stay with 1903 until the ‘official’ ISO’s are released later this month or early next month.

                Gigabyte GA-B250M-D3H Motherboard, Intel i5-7600 CPU, 32GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Graphics Card, 1x Samsung 860 EVO 250GB SSD, 1x Samsung 850 EVO 250GB SSD, Windows 10 Professional 2004 64bit.

              • #1979938 Reply
                Rick Corbett
                AskWoody_MVP

                I chose the 4th download link as well then English (United Kingdom) language then All editions:

                UUP_Dump

                I used Rufus to create a bootable USB stick installer when the ISO file was created:

                18363.418.191006-1449.19H2_RELEASE_SVC_PROD1_CLIENTMULTI_X64FRE_EN-GB.ISO

                As per usual I carried out a clean install (disconnected from the internet), wiping the previous partitions. I didn’t even get asked what edition I wanted… the installer just installed Windows 10 Pro again.

                Now, I understand the logic of the installer identifying the existing edition before wiping it completely… but that doesn’t explain why you were downgraded to a ‘Home’ edition.

                Attachments:
                1 user thanked author for this post.
              • #1980034 Reply
                Carl D
                AskWoody Lounger

                Had another go at this, selected the same 4th link as mentioned in my previous post and at the next page under “Choose edition” I just selected Windows 10 Pro from the ‘radio button’ options.

                This time I have ended up with an ISO file which only has one edition (presumably Professional, hopefully) because I don’t have to make a choice during the install anymore. I only went as far as there because I need to swap SSD’s before I try a full install. I’ll report back with my findings later.

                And, I have always been doing a complete removal of all previous partitions on the SSD prior to starting the clean installs.

                Funny thing is, when I mistakenly downloaded the ‘Evaluation’ version yesterday I chose the default of All editions prior to the download of all the files and the ISO creation and I did get all editions to choose from, both Home and Professional. Weird.

                 

                Gigabyte GA-B250M-D3H Motherboard, Intel i5-7600 CPU, 32GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Graphics Card, 1x Samsung 860 EVO 250GB SSD, 1x Samsung 850 EVO 250GB SSD, Windows 10 Professional 2004 64bit.

              • #1980042 Reply
                Carl D
                AskWoody Lounger

                Just tried a clean install on my spare SSD… and, yes, it is Windows 10 Professional.

                As I was going along looking at and adjusting all my settings, etc. I was thinking to myself: “this looks exactly like 1903, I wonder what’s changed?”

                Then I looked at the Windows version and it said 1903 – 18362.1

                What happened to 1909?? Doesn’t this UUP Dump get the files directly from Microsoft? I wonder if MS know people are getting 1909 early from UUP and they’re changing the files back to 1903? I’m sure they must know.

                Anyway, I’ve reconnected my ‘original’ 1903 SSD (glad I didn’t wipe it) and I’ll wait until the ‘official’ 1909 release whenever that may be.

                Gigabyte GA-B250M-D3H Motherboard, Intel i5-7600 CPU, 32GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Graphics Card, 1x Samsung 860 EVO 250GB SSD, 1x Samsung 850 EVO 250GB SSD, Windows 10 Professional 2004 64bit.

              • #1980350 Reply
                abbodi86
                AskWoody_MVP

                You must choose add updates option to get 18363.418

                otherwise, UUP files themselves are always 18362.1

      • #1979631 Reply
        Linda2019
        AskWoody Plus

        After you have the PC set up,  and want to create a recovery drive or a repair disc, do you have to do it after activation?  and be signed in online with a MSA to do it?

        • #1979653 Reply
          b
          AskWoody Plus

          No and No. But why delay activation or Microsoft Account?

          Create Recovery Drive in Windows 10

          • #1979795 Reply
            Linda2019
            AskWoody Plus

            I am new to Windows 10.  I know that you have to activate to be able to use it.  Wasn’t sure if it was smarter to be offline when creating the recovery media.

            • #1979802 Reply
              b
              AskWoody Plus

              I don’t think it makes any difference.

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