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  • Manjaro discussion continued…

    Posted on Microfix Comment on the AskWoody Lounge

    This topic contains 91 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  anonymous 2 days, 9 hours ago.

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    • #199010 Reply

      anonymous

      I started looking into Linux about 5 years ago now, shortly after experiencing Win8 and imagining where it was heading.
      2 years ago (after 3 years of testing) I was able to migrate to Linux and friends/family came along.
      A few months ago the majority of us moved to Manjaro (a couple to Pop! OS).
      They’ve had 2 years’ Linux experience now and are capable of sharing/helping friends.
      I write install guides for them to follow and all goes well, rarely any issues at all for 2 years.
      Linux isn’t for everyone, those that can use the Linux equivalents like gimp, kolourpaint, openshot, simple scan, scribus, writer etc, get on quite well. Those that can’t will have a tough time of it.
      Macs are another option if they can afford the entry price.
      greynad

      Edit: Move to appropriate section.

      3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #199023 Reply

        Microfix
        AskWoody MVP

        Interest in Manjaro seems to have taken a big leap, overtaking Linux Mint according to DistroWatch page ranking. Haven’t tried Manjaro yet and seems to have lots of different editions.

        Even has a base XFCE iso edition, minimal install for older PC’s so the user can pick their apps, way to go Manjaro! That’s the way to do it, forget all the bloat, uninstalling etc and let the end-user choose. May be worth a visit/ download/VM install once the 18.04LTS edition is released.

        See DistroWatch link above for more info..

        Something of worth perhaps,

        Does conforming to GDPR affect new European Linux distro’s from release? I would have thought so but, may be something to ponder whether in Europe or not 😉

        | W8.1 x64 | Linux x64 Hybrid | W7 Pro x64 | XP Pro/ Home Offline
          No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT - AE
        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #199027 Reply

          JohnW
          AskWoody Lounger

          Thanks for that info.  I see that Manjaro has been in the number 1 spot for the past 6 months.

          So I ask why?  That is actually just the page hits per IP address per day, not the actual count of installed distros.  https://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=popularity

          Digging in deeper, I read a few reviews to see what’s up.  Never paid Manjaro much attention before due to it being an Arch Linux based distro.  Nothing against Arch, but that is one branch of the Linux tree that I have avoided due to it’s deep geek status.  I have never had the urge to compile my own Linux distro from source code, and I always had the impression that Arch attracts mostly users who do.

          So I ran across this Manjaro review by a frequent reviewer of all things Linux by the name of Dedoimedo.  https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/manjaro-17-1-6-hakoila-plasma.html

          This was a review of a recent KDE Plasma based install of Manjaro, and he generally likes it, with a few niggles.  But the big surprise was that it comes straight out of the box with two things that Windows users might want.  Steam and Microsoft Office Online.

          Yes that’s right!  Microsoft Office Online icons in your start menu, or on your desktop.

          “And they come up as proper applications, too. Well, isolated single-page Webkit applications, but applications nonetheless. And you can pin them to the task manager and everything. Blimey awesome! … Proper stuff. You launch the apps, you sign in online, and there you have. You have your Microsoft Office Online, and even Skype.”

          5 users thanked author for this post.
          • #199067 Reply

            Microfix
            AskWoody MVP

            @johnw This does need further investigation especially for the MS Office on-line as you have pointed out.

            Have used mostly Debian/ Ubuntu derivatives currently and in the past 6-7 years, a challenge awaits when 18.04 version is available.

            | W8.1 x64 | Linux x64 Hybrid | W7 Pro x64 | XP Pro/ Home Offline
              No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT - AE
            1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #199088 Reply

          JohnW
          AskWoody Lounger

          I think an attractive alternative to Manjaro may be the Kubuntu KDE Plasma flavor of the Ubuntu distro.  https://kubuntu.org/

          I tried a bootable live version of Kubuntu recently, with KDE Plasma, and it was a smooth ride.  The desktop appears to be very similar to the KDE Plasma used by Manjaro.  Very stable and it detected all of my hardware out of the box.

          I think a possible advantage with Kubuntu over Manjaro, is that it is based on the same repositories used by Debian/Ubuntu.

          1. So that could mean better familiarity under the hood for those that have already used Debian/Ubuntu/Mint, etc.  A bit less techy than Arch, or at least more ease of use for casual or new Linux users.

          2. The extensive amount of user help online for Ubuntu makes it easy to solve most issues with using a Debian/Ubuntu/Mint flavored distro.

          https://ubuntuforums.org/

          https://askubuntu.com/

          Final thought about KDE Plasma.  I think it now may be the most polished looking desktop of any available today. Probably the most “Windows-like”.  https://www.kde.org/plasma-desktop

          https://userbase.kde.org/Plasma

          I installed a Kubuntu release a few years ago, and even tried it as my daily driver for awhile.  But it was a bit buggy, and KDE Plasma seemed barely out of beta at the time.  So I replaced that with Mint Cinnamon.  A good decision!

          But I may have to take another look at these newer KDE Plasma distros, starting with Manjaro and Kubuntu.  A far cry from the cartoonish looking KDE from a decade ago!

          4 users thanked author for this post.
          • #199211 Reply

            Ascaris
            AskWoody MVP

            FWIW, I tried Kubuntu 18.04 recently on a couple of different PCs, and I ended up going back to Mint with Cinnamon.  Mint with Cinnamon is boring in its reliability… it just works, day in and day out.  With Kubuntu, I had lots of crashes of various sub-components… every few hours, pretty much, something or other was crashing, and they were all different issues.  I expect it will smooth out over time, but on the very same PC, Mint worked without any issues at all.  I ran Mint 18.0 when it came out, and it wasn’t crashy like Kubuntu 18.04 is now.

            This isn’t the first time I had that experience with Kubuntu vs. Mint.  It happened once before, in 2015 (that time with Mint KDE).  Kubuntu 15.10 crashed within a few minutes of starting every time I used it back then, and would lock up to the point that I had to reset the PC (before I knew about other ways of regaining control of Linux during a system hang).  I tried Mint KDE 17.2, and it was flawless.

            Kubuntu, like all of the Ubuntu 18.04 versions, no longer offers ecryptfs encryption of the user’s home directory.  I read that ecryptfs isn’t being maintained/updated as well as it once was, and it doesn’t work properly with some of the changes in 18.04. While Ubuntu has a replacement for ecryptfs in the works, it’s not ready yet.

            I like the convenience of the ecryptfs system, warts and all; in Mint 18.3, it works quite well for me.

            Those issues should be taken care of in time.  It feels like Ubuntu 18.04 wasn’t really quite ready yet, IMO.  Such is the peril of releasing based on the calendar rather than on the state of readiness of any given version… like Windows, Ubuntu releases are numbered by release date, where 18.04 means April 2018.  Linux Mint release numbers don’t relate to any date in particular, so there’s no pressure to hurry up and get it out the door before it’s not April anymore.  MS had that happen with 1803, which was actually released in April.  It’s embarrassing to the company, and makes them look like they’re not in control.  I much prefer the “we will release it when it’s ready” model.

            Further, with Kubuntu, you run into the issue of the KDE devs having decided for you that you really don’t want to run your text editor (Kate, in Kubuntu) or the file manager (Dolphin) as root.  Well, you may want to, but you don’t get to, because they’ve decided it’s bad, so you can’t.  They are working on changes that will allow you to elevate privileges as needed without running as root (Kate will allow you to edit a system file as non-root, but it will ask you to elevate if you want to save it in a directory owned by root.  Dolphin is still a work in progress), which will be really convenient, but they’re not ready yet.  Given that the Linux world has been elevating the privileges of the file manager and the text editor for so many years, and that all of the other desktops besides KDE will keep doing it in the same way, I can’t imagine what is suddenly so important to stop this right now before the replacement for running Dolphin as root is even ready.

            That’s the kind of unilateral “we know best, so we’re imposing this on everyone” attitude I loathe about Microsoft and Google, and I don’t like it any more coming from open source.  GNOME is prone to the same fits of “we know best,” but Mint strips a lot of that out.  Some of it still filters down, like GNOME’s insistence on having the Ok and Cancel (or Save and Cancel, or what have you) buttons reversed (which you are probably used to if you use Android, as it has them reversed too, or at least it did the last time I used it).  They’ve decided it makes more sense that way, so the rest of the world can just deal with it (and those of us who use Windows and Linux can curse one side or the other for breaking “muscle” memory).

            KDE has the buttons in the right order, but that, paradoxically, is worse (IMO) than having it all backwards (as in any GNOME-based desktop environment, which is almost all of them that are not KDE).  Any KDE or Qt program will have the buttons in the normal order, as in Windows, but any GNOME program will still have them reversed– so you have a mixture of both, given how ubiquitous GNOME and programs using GTK+ (Firefox, for one) are in the Linux world.  I rarely run into the opposite, as Qt programs under GNOME-based desktops are a lot less common.

            1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #199037 Reply

      Microfix
      AskWoody MVP

      Good info being gathered on Manjaro Linux which seemed appropriate to start a new thread on the subject as a continuation from the original:

      | W8.1 x64 | Linux x64 Hybrid | W7 Pro x64 | XP Pro/ Home Offline
        No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT - AE
      3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #199107 Reply

      Microfix
      AskWoody MVP

      Yup, tried KDE a few years ago on a learning curve, nice looking branch distro but found it used more system resources than the likes of xfce or lxde which I opted for later. Wasn’t too bothered on OS aesthetics as my aim, at the time, was to reduce resources so I could utilize the maximum performance at a minimum cost of resources, ideal for VM’s in an Oracle VM box. Over the years have modified and settled on an lxde hybrid distro Peppermint OS and always seemed to go back to it having tried many on VM’s and hardware SSD’s.

      Just to show how aesthetics can be changed, below is a before and after of the same panel modification of my current desktop layout:

      Before (default)

      pm8-settings-panel-1

      After

      OS-Desktop

      | W8.1 x64 | Linux x64 Hybrid | W7 Pro x64 | XP Pro/ Home Offline
        No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT - AE
      • This reply was modified 3 months ago by  Microfix.
      • This reply was modified 3 months ago by  Microfix. Reason: png to jpg reduction
      • This reply was modified 3 months ago by  Microfix.
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      3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #199118 Reply

        OscarCP
        AskWoody Lounger

        The “after” looks curiously a lot like a Mac desktop: red, yellow green buttons on top left corner for sizing and closing window, format of the task bar at bottom and several of the icons themselves: Finder and Apps Store, for example. I wonder why all those attack lawyers Apple keeps just hungry enough in its kennels are not jumping on this already. If memory serves, Apple once sued some software company for making a GUI with screen windows with the same shape as theirs.

         

        • #199121 Reply

          Microfix
          AskWoody MVP

          Freely available downloadable icon sets, settings within linux, editing xml scripts, my graphics, you can do almost anything you want with it. There are loads of OS related downloads online as packages 🙂

          | W8.1 x64 | Linux x64 Hybrid | W7 Pro x64 | XP Pro/ Home Offline
            No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT - AE
          2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #199212 Reply

        Ascaris
        AskWoody MVP

        KDE is much lighter now than it used to be.  They’ve really done a great job with that.  I don’t remember specifics, but it was on par with Cinnamon the last time I checked.

    • #199117 Reply

      JohnW
      AskWoody Lounger

      I’m not sure every discussion about Linux needs to be about how to run it on old hardware.  Of course that is a very important topic, but it puts artificial boundaries on looking objectively at all that Linux may have to offer today.  Just keeping an open mind and approaching from all perspectives here.  😉

      On the other hand what if we looked at the way some folks do about building a PC to run games at the fastest possible FPS at the highest possible resolution?

      Maybe some users have a budget to buy or build a new PC, but just want nothing further to do with Windows?  Enter Linux!  On relatively recent hardware with decent specs, the impact of the fattest distros on resources shouldn’t affect performance.  This is where aesthetics and features can take top priority.

      A few years ago I custom built a new PC for a dedicated Linux box.  I needed a host to run a few VMs for a computer science class that I was taking.  So I built an Intel Core i3 3.4 GHz, 8GB RAM system that could run anything well.  I used that as my daily driver for a couple of years, with various distros.

      Then I built another PC with the same motherboard and CPU to run Windows 7 Pro, and eventually upgraded it to Windows 10 Pro.  It is still solid, and a good performer (especially since adding SSD) for anything that I throw at it.

      I have also used several “light” distros as VMs, and eventually settled on Xubuntu (Xfce), as my favorite distro to use as VM to run on my laptop that only has 4GB RAM.  That gets a bit tight, alongside a Windows host.  So I do get that perspective completely.

      It’s just that it takes a bit of extra effort, and research, to squeeze a modern full featured distro into a resource constrained package.

      Why not run Linux on a maxed out hardware config instead? Options!  🙂

      4 users thanked author for this post.
      • #199120 Reply

        OscarCP
        AskWoody Lounger

        Good point related to an interesting fact: there are Linux versions for the “Amiga”, for servers like those used in huge server farms, for supercomputers… A pretty versatile little thing, isn’t it? With all those close blood-relations, some also for multiple platforms, such as Android, Chrome/Chromium, macOS (known earlier as OS X), FreeBSD…

         

        • This reply was modified 3 months ago by  OscarCP.
      • #199213 Reply

        Ascaris
        AskWoody MVP

        I use Linux Mint 18.3 on my desktop.  It’s not maxed out nor the most modern system in the world, but it’s pretty good.  It’s a Sandy Bridge i5-2500k overclocked to 4.5GHz at the moment (I may go higher once again as I had in the past, but 4.5 is plenty for my needs; I seldom see full utilization as it is), 16GB of DDR3-2333 RAM, a GTX 760 2GB (getting a little old, but still a workhorse), with 2 SSDs and a 3 TB HD (one SSD each for Windows and Linux; the HDD is shared data between them).

        I also had Linux (Kubuntu 18.04) on a Dell gaming laptop that I ended up restoring to Windows 10 and returning as described in another message (titled something like “Musings on modern laptop design” in rants).  That one was a Kaby i5 (quad core, since that’s not always true in mobile i5s), 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD, GTX 1050ti with Optimus.  After some initial stumbles in Kubuntu, I got it working really nicely.  Windows 8.1 wasn’t so easy , and I was not quite ready to go all-in on Linux gaming just yet, and Windows 10… pfft, that’s out of the question.  No 8.1, no good.  I got a great deal on it, and it was really a nice computer in most ways, so that return was a little painful.

    • #199143 Reply

      MrJimPhelps
      AskWoody MVP

      I started looking into Linux about 5 years ago now, shortly after experiencing Win8 and imagining where it was heading.
      2 years ago (after 3 years of testing) I was able to migrate to Linux and friends/family came along.
      A few months ago the majority of us moved to Manjaro (a couple to Pop! OS).
      They’ve had 2 years’ Linux experience now and are capable of sharing/helping friends.
      I write install guides for them to follow and all goes well, rarely any issues at all for 2 years.
      Linux isn’t for everyone, those that can use the Linux equivalents like gimp, kolourpaint, openshot, simple scan, scribus, writer etc, get on quite well. Those that can’t will have a tough time of it.
      Macs are another option if they can afford the entry price.
      greynad

      Edit: Move to appropriate section.

      Perhaps you could start a sub-forum on Manjaro Linux and include your install guides and other helpful documents you have written. This would be extremely helpful for those who are considering which Linux distro to deploy.

      Group "L" (Linux Mint)
      with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
      • #199150 Reply

        OscarCP
        AskWoody Lounger

        Mr JimPhelps,

        I am interested in trying out different Linux distros in a virtual machine. I have both a Windows PC with a roomy disk (750 GB) and enough central memory (8 GB) and an older Intel I-7, 4-core “sandy bridge” CPU now running Windows 7 Pro, x64. I also have a new-ish Mac (ca. 2015) with an 2.4 GHz I-7, 4-core “Haswell” CPU, running macOS “Sierra”.

        Would you recommend some virtual machine for either?

        And while I am at it: Thanks for your repeated and helpful explaining of the more user-friendly varieties of Linux.

         

        • This reply was modified 3 months ago by  OscarCP.
        • #199164 Reply

          MrJimPhelps
          AskWoody MVP

          Oscar:

          Thank you for your kind words. You often give a different perspective on things, which is both helpful and interesting.

          When I first tried Linux, I installed it in an virtual machine on my Windows 7 computer. I soon wanted to do a real install, so I added a hard drive and installed it in a dual boot format. But the virtual machine way was very convenient in that I could instantly click over to Linux. There was no delay waiting for the machine to reboot into Linux. The fact that you have 8 GB of memory means that you have enough memory to keep the Linux VM running all the time, which means that you can access it instantly, with just one click. This will be an excellent way to become familiar with different distros of Linux.

          I use VMWare Workstation Player for my virtual machine software. I had some difficulty trying to get Oracle Virtual Box up and running, but I have had no difficulty at all with VMWare Workstation Player. If you have 64-bit Windows installed as your host OS, then VMWare would be a good choice.

          Buena Suerte!

          Jim

          Group "L" (Linux Mint)
          with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
          2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #199185 Reply

            JohnW
            AskWoody Lounger

            I agree that the VMware Player is an excellent option!  I have used that with much success.  That and VirtualBox are both great options, if your CPU and BIOS support hardware virtualization.

            The best thing about running Linux in a Virtual Machine (VM) vs. dual booting is that you can run both systems concurrently.  Just click back and forth with a keyboard shortcut, sharing the same computer hardware, network,  monitor, keyboard and mouse.

            The first time you accomplish this with a VM, you will never go back to dual booting.  Trust me!  Dual booting has it’s place, but if your CPU and RAM are up to it, VM is the way to go!

            You can use shared folders on a secondary drive partition, an external drive, or a network share.  It is easy to move files between systems.  I have also allowed copy/paste clipboard between guest and host systems, so if you have an application open on one system, you can copy data and paste it directly into an app on the other system.  Huge time saver!  🙂

            4 users thanked author for this post.
          • #199199 Reply

            Ascaris
            AskWoody MVP

            I use VirtualBox for my VMs (host=Linux, guest=Windows 7 and 8.1), and I have it running successfully on several of my PCs, so if anyone has any issues, I may be able to help.  I’m but a babe in the woods with VMs myself, but I can try!

            It is possible that a VM could be soft bricked with an update (a hard or true brick would generally mean the motherboard underwent a failed BIOS update and is deader than a doornail unless surgery is done on the motherboard).  Soft bricks are relatively minor events compared to that, and are very often recoverable (though if you have a good backup, it’s often a lot less headache just to restore that and be done with it).

            In case of a failed update causing boot failure or other soft brick, the damage will be confined to the VM… the host OS will be fine.  As PKCano said, just delete the corrupted VM and copy the saved file (virtual hard drive) back into its place, assuming you have a copy from before it was corrupted.  It’s easy to do, so it really should be something you would do before installing updates or any other thing that has potential to mess things up.

            There are other ways of doing it from within the program itself too; in VirtualBox, you can right click the VM entry in the VM Manager program and select “clone,” then “Full clone.”  It will then create an exact duplicate of the VM you selected… so if the first one gets corrupted, just delete it and use the clone (and maybe clone it again so you have a backup).  This is not as secure as copying to an external hard drive, since the clone file is saved in the same place as the original, but it would be the easiest way to recover from a failed Windows update.  I do both; I have clones and I have copies on external media.  The clones are convenient and right there if I need; if that’s not good enough, I can use the copies.

            And then there are snapshots, which are kind of similar to Windows restore points…

             

            3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #199171 Reply

          PKCano
          AskWoody MVP

          I use Parallels Desktop for VMs on my Macs. Ypu can install Windows and Linux. Works like a charm!

          3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #199208 Reply

        anonymous

        Thankyou MrJimPhelps for you invitation.
        Firstly though, I should say that Manjaro is fully-rolling, not point-release. So don’t be waiting for 18.04LTS. For anyone that wants to give it a go, just grab the latest ISO and use it promptly.
        As I said previously, the majority of us are on Manjaro. That is actually Manjaro-Gnome. The overwhelming majority have adapted to Gnome very well and say they want to stay put. But for the few that just can’t get their head around Gnome I showed them XFCE… but they didn’t warm to that look either?
        I noticed there’s a Budgie spin of Manjaro, so showed them some Solus-Budgie screenshots and they liked what Budgie looked like.
        I installed Manjaro-Budgie on a test rig so I could show them and the response was quite enthusiastic, so I did theirs the same and they’re happy.
        I wrote a walk-thru guide for them so they could do it exactly the same way again themselves.
        They still like using Windows terminology & DVDs, hence the Budgie guide is written so.

        Manjaro-Budgie from DVD

        Start the installer from the Welcome screen, it’s a very easy to follow wizard. Don’t select to automatically log you in and I recommend you tick box to use the same password for Admin too. Once the installation wizard has completed, restart the computer & remove the DVD.

        Once booted to desktop, the Welcome screen will popup, turn off the slider in Welcome screen so it doesn’t always show at startup.

        Now hit Win/Start key and start typing: budgie desktop settings, and when you see it go in and under Appearance > Style > turn on the Dark theme
        then under Panels > Top Panel > Settings > select Bottom
        close Budgie Desktop Settings

        Now hit Win/Start key and start typing: add/remove software, and when you see it go in and under Preferences > AUR > turn on Enable AUR support and tick box to Check for updates from AUR
        close Add/Remove Software

        Now use the Network icon (bottom right) to connect to your WiFi… select your WiFi and enter the passphrase.

        Pretty shortly you should be informed of updates… go get ‘em! Once this first batch of updates are installed I restart before moving on, I suggest you do too as we’ll be installing Google Chrome and some MS fonts.

        After restart, open Add/Remove Software, right-click on it’s icon in the bottom panel (Taskbar) and select Pinned, now it will be one click access from now on.
        Click on the magnifying glass and type in: google-chrome
        when found, right-click on it and select Install, click Apply, Password etc

        If you want MS fonts like arial, times roman, comic sans, etc, then type in: ttf-ms-fonts
        when found, right-click on it and select Install, click Apply, etc

        As well as Google Chrome and MS fonts, install the following (as you did above) so you can tackle anything…
        asunder (CD Ripper)
        audacity (Audio Editor)
        darktable (Lightroom equivalent)
        fbreader (eBook Reader)
        gimp (Photoshop equivalent)
        gnome-boxes (Easy Virtual Machine)
        google-earth-pro
        goldendict (Dictionary)
        handbrake (Video Transcoder)
        homebank (Personal Accounting)
        inkscape (Vector Graphics Editor)
        kolourpaint (Paint equivalent)
        openshot (Video Editor)
        scribus (Publisher equivalent)
        skype
        aisleriot (gnome Patience game)
        gnome-mahjonng (gnome Mahjonng game)

        Open Manjaro Settings Manager > Language Packages > Install Packages…

        That’s pretty much it, you’ll find it very easy to navigate around the system, to pin apps to the bottom panel you just open the app, right-click on the panel icon and select Pinned. You drag them sideways to change order, and you just deselect Pinned to unpin them… pretty easy, eh?

        If desired, you can set LibreOffice default save as Microsoft Word, Excel, PowerPoint via Tools, Options, Load/Save, General, and select preferred file types, then click OK.

        Browser extensions you might want to consider are uBlock Origin and Decentraleyes… I use them both.

        Enjoy!

        For the Budgie installation above, I used the ISO from: https://osdn.net/projects/manjaro-community/storage/budgie/17.1.10/

        The ISOs change regularly as they are just current snapshots of where the release is at that time.
        Whether you prefer XFCE, Gnome, Budgie, is up to you. The back-end stuff like updates, turning on AUR, installing software is pretty much the same, so you could pluck those bits out if you’re familiar with XFCE or Gnome and rather give them a try instead of Budgie.
        greynad

        3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #199248 Reply

          anonymous

          Thankyou Elly, I have to wonder if the target audience will ever see this now considering how hard it was to find it… Anyway, I felt I should add this to my previous post.
          Printing/scanning can be awkward on Linux.
          The typical setup for us is a Linux desktop in the study/office and a multifunction connected via USB.
          They’re either Canon MG6250, MG5350, and various large white HP Office-jet things. I had the Linux Canon drivers and the HPs are plug-in-USB-and-they-work.
          AUR in Manjaro provides the print/scan drivers for the Canons and the HPs are still plug-n-play.
          This is of course a compromise that we are all more than willing to accept to use Linux.
          iPads, MacBooks etc use AirPrint and Linux laptops just come to the printer and hi-jack the desktops USB lead.
          A neighbour had a large Brother without USB and said he got it doing everything wirelessly but could never explain what he did?
          If folks are weighing up whether they should or shouldn’t, this would be pertinent info for their ears.
          In fact my usual 1st question is whether everything they want to do can be accomplished on an iPad.
          If yes, it ends there.
          If not, can they afford a MacBook or iMac.
          If not, do they have access to a pretty decent PC that can run Linux, & can they accept Linux equivalents, & can they accept the USB print/scan thing.
          If not, I have very little to offer them other than Good Luck (with kindness and not sarcasm).
          My intent is to help, not rubbish anyone. It has to be a solution they can live with everyday.
          Thanks for listening,
          greynad

          2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #199252 Reply

            anonymous

            Whoops! I think the neighbours Brother was white, but the big HP Office-jets might be grey (I have the Canons).
            I noticed it just as I hit submit, but too late etc… not a biggie, but accuracy is very important to anyone weighing up whether or not to do something. Sorry for the slip.
            g

            • #199274 Reply

              MrJimPhelps
              AskWoody MVP

              Very helpful stuff. Makes me want to install Manjaro in a VM!

              Group "L" (Linux Mint)
              with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
            • #199500 Reply

              anonymous

              For anyone that’s interested, here’s the guide I wrote for Pop! OS…

              Installing Pop!_OS 18.04 LTS from USB

              Boot to USB, wait and follow the installation wizard.
              Once completed, shut down computer, remove USB, and restart computer.
              Once restarted, follow the wizard to setup the user account and connect internet, etc.
              Wait for the Updates Available popup to appear, then click on it, install updates and restart computer.
              Once restarted, click on Activities (top left) and open Terminal and copy/paste the following…
              sudo apt install ttf-mscorefonts-installer

              When the EULA appears, use Tab key to get to Ok, then use cursor arrow keys to get to Yes.

              Now copy/paste the following…
              sudo apt install ubuntu-restricted-extras

              When asked, type y followed by Enter
              Close Terminal

              Open the Pop!_Shop application and install VLC MediaPlayer…
              Close Pop!_Shop, open VLC and go into Preferences > Video
              Then change Output from Automatic to XVideo output (XCB)
              Close VLC

              Open the Pop!_Shop application and install GNOME Tweaks…
              Close Pop!_Shop
              Open Tweaks > Top Bar > turn on Activities Overview Hot Corner
              > Windows > you can restore missing Maximize, Minimize window buttons (if desired)

              Launch Firefox, go to: https://www.google.com/chrome/?platform=linux
              Select and install the 64bit.deb (for Debian/Ubuntu).

              Launch Google Chrome, go into Google Chrome settings, set it to Show Home button and to Use system title bars and borders. Close Google Chrome.
              Browser extensions you might want to consider are uBlock Origin and Decentraleyes

              If desired, you can set LibreOffice default save as Microsoft Word, Excel, PowerPoint via Tools, Options, Load/Save, General, and select preferred file types, then click OK.

              Open the Pop!_Shop application and install gufw Firewall Configuration…
              Open Firewall Configuration and turn the Firewall ON.

              To match the other folders in Files (file manager), you might want to set the Downloads folder to sort A-Z

              You might want to disable the Dim screen when inactive and Blank screen under Power in Settings
              You might also want to change the Desktop and Lock Screen backgrounds (no need for instructions for this).

              The rest is pretty much adding the additional software you’d like from the Pop!_Shop application.

              Some suggestions are…
              audacity (Audio Editor)
              brasero (CD Burner)
              darktable (Lightroom equivalent)
              fbreader (eBook Reader)
              gimp (Photoshop equivalent)
              gnome boxes (Easy Virtual Machine)
              gnucash (Business Accounting)
              goldendict (Dictionary)
              gparted (Disk Partitioning)
              handbrake (Video Transcoder)
              homebank (Personal Accounting)
              inkscape (Vector Graphics Editor)
              libreoffice base (Access equivalent)
              openshot (Video Editor)
              kolour paint (Paint equivalent)
              pulseaudio volume control gtk (additional control)
              scribus (Publisher equivalent)
              sound juicer (CD Ripper)
              thunderbird (email client supporting multiple Profiles)
              transmission gtk (BitTorrent Client)
              uget (Download Manager)
              aisleriot solitaire (gnome Solitaire game)
              gnome mahjongg (gnome Mahjongg game)

              Skype is available here: https://www.skype.com/en/get-skype/
              Make sure you select the DEB version

              Opera browser is available at: https://www.opera.com/computer/linux

              Now to select your preferred Default Applications…
              Open Settings > Details > Default Applications and select your own preferences like Google Chrome, Thunderbird, VLC, etc

              Now to organise your Favorites (dock launched by Activities)
              Activities > Show Applications > All simply right-click on an application and select Add to Favorites

              You might consider…
              Firefox Web Browser
              Google Chrome
              Skype
              Thunderbird
              Files
              Pop!_Shop
              Screenshot
              Simple Scan
              LibreOffice

              Enjoy your new POP!_OS 18.04 LTS

              I used the INTEL/AMD ISO available here: https://system76.com/pop
              greynad

              3 users thanked author for this post.
            • #199759 Reply

              anonymous
            • #207819 Reply

              Mr. Natural
              AskWoody Lounger

              I tried looking for an answer but can’t seem to find any discussion on this. Are you folks using any anti virus product with POP!_OS? Options? ClamAV maybe?

            • #207829 Reply

              JohnW
              AskWoody Lounger

              Not quite sure what the concern here is. Pop is built on Ubuntu Linux, so any search for anti-virus on Ubuntu should turn up some discussion.  Suggest to start here: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=anti-virus+on+Ubuntu&t=ffcm&ia=qa

              https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Antivirus

              Reasons Linux is less prone to malware

              Programs are run as normal user, not root user
              Open source – more eyes on the system source code
              Diverse system configurations
              Less malware actors overall focus on Linux. However, proficient malware actors do target Linux.

              Since Linux is immune to catching a Windows virus, many Linux users feel that just using good general computer security practices is enough protection.  But if you share files with Windows users, you can reduce the chance that you can propagate infected files to other Windows users.

              So You Want to Know How to Use Anti-virus Software on Ubuntu?

              https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Linuxvirus

              3 users thanked author for this post.
            • #207852 Reply

              Mr. Natural
              AskWoody Lounger

              Thanks much JW. I haven’t messed with Linux for many years, so happily diving back in. I was curious what the general consensus is for veteran Linux users since I’ve been out of the loop for quite a while. I don’t foresee an immediate need as I know I’ll have other things to do for a while after I receive the Meerkat.

              Thanks for the links. They will be quite helpful.

            • #208764 Reply

              anonymous

              Sorry Mr Natural, just discovered your post.
              No, none of us use an AV on Pop! or Manjaro.
              Turning on the Firewall and being sensible has done the trick so far.
              greynad

              1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #209177 Reply

              Mr. Natural
              AskWoody Lounger

              Thank you all again.

              I got the Meerkat up and running last night. Hooked it into my entertainment system via hdmi, used a wired keyboard and mouse for the initial setup, then inserted the usb key for wireless keyboard and mouse and worked like a charm. I was up and connected to the net within a few minutes, just like they advertise. Everything is going great but still have a lot of setup to do.

              I spent a lot of time with display settings since I sit on my couch and my tv is on the other side of the room. Working on font size and such so I can easily read stuff. Control+mouse wheel works to adjust font size just like windows too.

              I’d like to do a mini review but it’s too early for that, if I find the time. I want to see how things run once I have completed setup.

              graynad and JW your input and your guides are invaluable. One cool thing to note was when I installed the microsoft core font pack it barked at me saying “cannot run you need to run this command” and it showed me the command to run. I ran it just like it showed and it proceeded to install the font pack. Quite a difference from the usual vague error messages windows provides.

              After playing a couple of hours I got the most important thing installed….Steam! It’s in the pop os store now so install was no big deal.

              Working with this kind of reminds me of the good old days of using dos and windows both to accomplish things. If you like playing with computers, this is a no brainer.

               

              • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by  Mr. Natural.
              1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #209244 Reply

              Mr. Natural
              AskWoody Lounger

              Pics or it  didn’t happen…..

              Meerkat is to the right of the clock.

              • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by  Mr. Natural.
              • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by  Mr. Natural.
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            • #209296 Reply

              anonymous

              Thank you for the feedback.
              Glad you’re up and running.
              Look forward to your review.
              greynad

            • #209467 Reply

              Mr. Natural
              AskWoody Lounger

              Well graynad, if I had followed your guide in sequential order I wouldn’t have had to wrestle with display settings for the past 2 evenings, Gnome Tweaks. I can set all default font sizes on anything in the GUI…..D’OH!

              • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by  Mr. Natural.
            • #209632 Reply

              anonymous

              Yes, the sequence in my guides is deliberate.

              I have a Manjaro Gnome box HDMI to our main TV, all I did was…
              Settings > Universal Access > Always Show Universal Access Menu > On
              Then I just use it to toggle Large Text depending whether sitting far or near to TV.
              Steam (and those M$ Office Online App things) are pre-installed but haven’t touched either of them.
              This box mainly used for catch-up TV shows when we miss them on the free-to-air TV channels.

              I’m sure you’ll be very happy with your System76 and they’ll cater a clean upgrade path for it.

              Thanks again for your feedback
              greynad

            • #209762 Reply

              Mr. Natural
              AskWoody Lounger

              One last comment if all of you don’t mind. I don’t mean to threadjack and I’ll create a new thread going forward. Since I am not using this as a desktop computer my experience will be much different than folks who would use this as their desktop computer. I’m not sure if it would be fair to do a review of anything with that in mind. The best example of that  would be having to adjust font sizes since this is connected to a 55″ Panny plasma and I’m not sitting right in front of a desktop monitor.. I want to comment in case anyone else is considering a purchase.

              I bought the base Meerkat model because I wanted to check it out first. If I had to do it over I definitely would have gone with one of the high end Meerkat’s and most likely will do so later. The system I have has the built in Intel GPU only and honestly the graphics performance was lacking as the system came configured. But the system is connected to a much larger display than a normal monitor. The good news is I went into the bios and changed a couple of things that has improved performance considerably and now runs as well as a windows system with the same specs. Probably the thing that made the biggest difference was allocating the maximum amount of memory to the GPU that I could. I think it was set at 256 MB and I raised it to the maximum of 1 GB. Running much better now!

              BTW – the bios screen on that system is definitely the most detailed and modern interface I’ve ever seen on a bios menu system. Very nice work guys….and girls.

              • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by  Mr. Natural.
              1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #209920 Reply

              anonymous

              Wondered about that when you mentioned Steam and maybe better off with a Wild Dog Pro.
              Just looked and System76 have Back To School specials: https://system76.com/specials
              Wild Dog Pro currently $829 for the base, or $978 if you add 2GB GT 1030 graphics.
              greynad

            • #210262 Reply

              Mr. Natural
              AskWoody Lounger

              I’m going to create a thread soon on where I am with the Meerkat. A summary if you will. I agree with your comment.

            • #215511 Reply

              anonymous

              Mr Natural, regards it barking at you trying to install the font pack, guessing it was…
              dpkg was interrupted, you must manually run ‘sudo dpkg –configure -a’ to correct the problem

              If so (for anyone following) just copy/paste the: sudo dpkg –configure -a
              And hit Enter
              Configuring grub-pc opens
              Then use the Space bar to select: /dev/sda
              Then use Tab to get to OK…

              Also, if the updater in Pop!-Shop ever gets stuck forever, close it and open Terminal…
              Run: sudo apt-get update

              That should sort it out.
              I’ll try putting a note in Mr Natural’s Meerkat post to link back to this to assist others.

              greynad

            • #215522 Reply

              anonymous

              Forgot to mention about Timeshift…
              In Manjaro, it’s either pre-installed or easily available from the AUR.

              In Pop!_OS I used Terminal and the following 3 commands…
              sudo apt-add-repository -y ppa:teejee2008/ppa
              sudo apt-get update
              sudo apt-get install timeshift

              greynad

          • #199258 Reply

            PKCano
            AskWoody MVP

            Anonymous posts have to be moderated individually by an MVP. Which means they may remain pending for an undefined amount of time depending on many things. Please be patient and refrain from re-posting immediately. We’ll be with you as soon as possible.

            1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #199381 Reply

            Ascaris
            AskWoody MVP

            I’ve heard of the issues that can happen with printing or scanning in Linux, but they can also go very nicely.  In terms of scanners, you can consult the SANE database of supported devices to see if yours (or one you are thinking of buying, if you don’t have it yet) is there.  SANE is the standard scanner support library in Ubuntu and Mint (and probably other distros, but I don’t have enough experience to say)… it stands for “Scanner Access Now Easy.”

            For printers, I do not know about a centralized database, but the manufacturer’s site may have what you need.

            In my case, I was lucky… I have a Canon “ImageClass” MF-3010 scanner/B&W laser printer that is well-supported in SANE and has printer drivers from Canon.  I didn’t have to do anything to get the scanner working in Linux (Mint 18.3) other than plug it in; with the printer, I had previously stated that it worked just the same way, but it looks like I had actually installed the Canon driver from their site and forgotten about it.

            It works perfectly in Linux in scanning and printing modes.  It all depends on whether drivers are available for your device, and since Linux has a limited market share, a lot of vendors don’t bother with Linux drivers.

            If you do have a VM running Windows, you can always print or scan from that by passing the USB device through directly to the VM, and install your printer/scanner driver in Windows therein.  You could also do your editing of whatever file it is in Linux, export to PDF, then put the PDF file in the shared folder for the VM (which is a folder the host and guest OS both have access to) and print it from the VM.  Inconvenient compared to doing it directly, but it’s at least a tool in your toolbox if you need it.

            1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #199770 Reply

              MrJimPhelps
              AskWoody MVP

              You are indeed lucky to have gotten your scanner working in Linux with no trouble.

              I have had two Canon Pixma printer/scanners, and one Canon Selphy printer.

              I set the two Pixmas up as network devices. I first installed them in Windows, then in Linux. If you first install them in Windows, then it is simple to add them as printers in Linux; but if you have not yet installed them in Windows, you will have a hard time finding them on the network in order to install them in Linux. Likely if you first install them in your Windows VM, you will then be able to easily add them in Linux. The print quality is better if you first install the printer in Windows, then add it in Linux, as opposed to downloading and installing the Canon Linux printer software.

              Scanning was a different story. I never could get them to work as scanners in Linux, even though they were working in Windows. I ended up going to the Canon Asia (Thailand) website and downloading the Debian scanner driver and instructions – don’t forget to download the instructions as well! (Not sure if the Debian driver will work for Manjaro.) I then very carefully followed the instructions for installing the scanner driver; after doing that, both Pixmas scanned successfully in Linux! So far, I have only been able to get the Canon scanning software to work, but it does a decent job, so it’s not a problem. (If I need something fancier than that, I open my Windows 8.1 VM and use my scanner software there.) The Canon scanning software is launched by a terminal command; so to make things easier, I created a launcher (shortcut) for it.

              I never could get the Selphy to work. I had to add it as a USB printer in my Windows 8.1 VM, and then go into the VM whenever I want to print.

              Update: The Selphy is visible as a printer in Linux! It may be because I set it up for direct wireless printing, rather than as a wifi printer. I’ll have to research that further.

              Group "L" (Linux Mint)
              with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
              1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #207861 Reply

              OscarCP
              AskWoody Lounger

              MrJimPhelps, on scanners and other peripherals: Would, perhaps, installing either Windows in a virtual machine running on Linux, or doing it the other way around, get over the problem of having peripherals that can be used with Windows but not with Linux. And the same question, if one replaced the word “Linux” with “macOS” in the previous statement — although there are quite a few commonly used peripherals these days that work just as well, indistinctly, with machines running either OS.

            • #209651 Reply

              MrJimPhelps
              AskWoody MVP

              MrJimPhelps, on scanners and other peripherals: Would, perhaps, installing either Windows in a virtual machine running on Linux, or doing it the other way around, get over the problem of having peripherals that can be used with Windows but not with Linux.

              You can install your printer, scanner, and any other peripheral in both your host OS and in your VM OS. Or, install it in one or the other.

              Here’s an example: I have some pretty decent, basic scanning software for Linux for my Canon scanner. But I have better scanning software for Windows. If all I need to do is basic scanning, I use the Linux software (Linux is my host OS). But if I need the extra features of the Windows software, I open the VM and do my scanning from Windows.

              Also, for a long time I wasn’t able to get my scanner to work in Linux. But I was able to use it in my Windows VM. So whenever I needed to scan, I opened my VM and scanned from Windows.

              This is one of the benefits of a VM — you have the equivalent of a Windows (or MAC, or whatever) computer running inside of whatever your normal OS is. In my case, I have the equivalent of three fully-functional Windows computers running inside of my Linux Mint computer.

              The only thing is, you have to have enough memory if you want all of that to work well. Figure on having at least 4 GB for each computer that you will be running at the same time, because each one will have its own memory requirements, just like if it was a real computer.

              Group "L" (Linux Mint)
              with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
    • #199187 Reply

      OscarCP
      AskWoody Lounger

      Thanks PKCano, JohnW and MrJimPhelps for your reassuring comments on using a VM to run different operating systems on a Windows machine or a Mac.

      I have one more question:

      Le’t imagine I have a Mac and use a VM to emulate, for example, Windows. When there are updates for Windows, would I install them while running Windows on the VM and in the usual way, e.g. using WU (or at all)?

      And what happens when such an update goes bad? At least in most cases, could that brick the VM? Just the VM? In other words: can one expect that what happens in the VM stays in the VM?

       

      • This reply was modified 3 months ago by  OscarCP.
      • #199190 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        The guest operating system in the VM is just the same as if it were on hardware. You do updates, you install programs, you store data the same as if it were an independent PC.

        Backing up a VM is simply copying the file off onto an external HDD. If the working one has a problem, just delete the VM and copy the saved file back in it’s place. No stressful backups – just copy the file.

        5 users thanked author for this post.
        • #199193 Reply

          JohnW
          AskWoody Lounger

          You can also do snapshots of the working VM or clone it.  But the simplest way is probably like you said, plus having a backup routine that copies your VM folder from the host to a backup location.  I image the drive with my VM folder (on a secondary HDD on my PC) every Saturday to an external USB3 drive with Macrium.  Like you said, if anything goes bad, just copy it back over. 🙂

          1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #199192 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        I think I did several topics on VMs in MacOS in the MacOS Forum, if you want to read them.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #199275 Reply

        MrJimPhelps
        AskWoody MVP

        I exit VMWare altogether (thereby closing all open VMs), and then make a copy of each VM’s folder contents (I don’t recall if it was one file or more than one). I keep a folder called VM Backups (or something like that), and within that folder I have the following folders:
        * Windows 7 (64) (2018-06-22)
        * Windows 7 (32) (2018-06-22)
        and so on.

        In this way, it’s very easy to fix a broken or bricked VM – as PKCano said, delete the contents of the working folder, and copy the contents of the desired backup folder into the working folder. You then crank up the VM once again.

        So if you install a bad update or break the VM in some other way, it takes about two or three minutes to fix it.

        And in answer to your question, if you are running Windows in the VM, a rogue Windows update won’t do anything to your host OS.

        However, a rogue update to the host OS could have an impact of some sort on a VM that is within that host OS. Probably won’t ever happen, but theoretically it might.

        Group "L" (Linux Mint)
        with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
        4 users thanked author for this post.
        • #199297 Reply

          JohnW
          AskWoody Lounger

          Another cool thing about a VM is that it should be portable.

          I have moved VM folders from one host to another using VirtualBox on each host.  Opened up the VM file in VirtualBox on the other host, and it was up and running!  I assume that the same goes for VMWare.

          I have moved several VMs, both Windows and Linux guests, from a Linux host to a Windows host, without issue. 🙂

          In fact you can download pre-configured VMs from the internet.

          https://www.osboxes.org/

          “OSBoxes offers you ready-to-use Linux/Unix guest operating systems.

          If you don’t want to install secondary OS alongside with your main OS but still want to use/try it, then you can use VirtualBox or VMware on your host operating system to run virtual machine.

          Simply download any image you want and run it as VM.”

          4 users thanked author for this post.
          • #199771 Reply

            MrJimPhelps
            AskWoody MVP

            It doesn’t get any easier than that!

            Group "L" (Linux Mint)
            with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
            2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #199214 Reply

      OscarCP
      AskWoody Lounger

      Thanks again to all of you, for clarifying the question about updating the VM emulated OS, and the other one about if it is true that “what happens in the VM, stays in the VM”, when it comes to dealing with poisonous updates of the emulated OS and other mishaps that would tank permanently a “real” OS. And, finally, thanks also for making the use of a VM clearer in general, to me.

       

      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #209508 Reply

        anonymous

        Oscar: You run the Windows VM exactly as you would a Windows machine, ie, you need AV, you can do Group B updating, install software, install 3rd party firewalls, etc.

        While you are on Windows, I recommend you install VirtualBox, (and Guest Additions, from their site) and check how-to’s online (eg, MakeUseOf How to Install VirtualBox as a search term) and YouTube videos, “how to install VirtualBox”, “how to install Linux Mint (or other distro) in VirtualBox” and “10 things to do after you install Linux Mint (or other distro)” . Download iso, then just install into VirtualBox. Play around with it, and if you have cloned it or taken snapshots as others have shown above, worst case if you “wreck” it, just use snapshot or back-upped VM. Once you do this, you’ll be up and running before you know it, and probably installing multiple distros!

        Stick to graphical update and upgrade (update icon on panel, click, then hit refresh to get list of updates). I also suggest no deb. files from online – while you are learning. Shouldn’t have any problems at all. Only thing you could do wrong to wreck a new Linux VM is go nuts over theming, (so many options!) – stick to ones provided in “Appearance”.

        You can download ebooks, photos, music, videos in Linux, scan with Clam Tk – get it from “Software Manager”. Just check your firewall is enabled, sudo ufw enable, type password (do this instruction in terminal)- if it is enabled it will tell you, if it isn’t this command will do it. (To confirm, sudo ufw status). As soon as you have installed your distro and enabled firewall, do update and upgrade (upgrade is upgrading software packages that need updating since iso was released).Same rules apply in your browser as Windows, eg, uBlock Origin, Decentraleyes, if you use these, or an adblocker, etc.) Have fun downloading as much software as you like!

        I recommend Linux Mint or Ubuntu as first distros, and they are really good as main ones, even after you go through all the playing around phase! If you have or can get access to an old laptop, you could then try installing onto it. Have fun!

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #200834 Reply

      Microfix
      AskWoody MVP

      Manjaro News for XFCE, KDE and Gnome.

      Manjaro 17.1.11 July 2nd, 2018 Manjaro Team

      We are happy to announce fresh install media 17.1.11 for all our Official Releases, now available from our online storage partner OSDN:

      More info here: https://manjaro.org/news/

      | W8.1 x64 | Linux x64 Hybrid | W7 Pro x64 | XP Pro/ Home Offline
        No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT - AE
      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #200842 Reply

        JohnW
        AskWoody Lounger

        Good info!

        Interesting that Manjaro 17.1.11 is shipping with KDE Plasma 5.13.2, the just released bug fixed version of KDE Plasma 5.13 that was released in June.  https://www.kde.org/announcements/plasma-5.13.2.php

        By comparison, the LTS version of Kubuntu 18.04 is shipping with KDE Plasma 5.12 LTS.

        https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BionicBeaver/ReleaseNotes/Kubuntu

        So I guess it’s just a matter of whether you prefer a bleeding edge DE or not.

      • #202130 Reply

        anonymous

        Majority of our group are on Gnome, once you break through that imaginary wall you love it, otherwise you won’t.

        XFCE is the most ‘Official’ version and best bet for anyone wanting a Start-Menu based distro from the outset.

        XFCE can look slightly old fashioned if you’ve already given Gnome a go and then want to go back to a Start-Menu based UI… this is when Budgie’s more modern look ‘might’ float your boat.

        Budgie’s still on 17.1.10 right now…
        17.1.11 ISO should drop fairly soon here: https://osdn.net/projects/manjaro-community/storage/budgie/17.1.11/

        But 17.1.10 ISOs aren’t too stale to use right now while waiting for 17.1.11 to drop (and the above Budgie guide would still be current)

        Mate 17.1.11 is already here: https://osdn.net/projects/manjaro-community/storage/mate/17.1.11/

        Remember Manjaro is rolling, so 17.1.10 and 17.1.11 are effectively just snapshot ISOs a few weeks apart, so using 17.1.10 when 17.1.11 has only just dropped shouldn’t be an issue, once updated it becomes the latest anyway.

        There’s no .deb files with Manjaro as it’s Arch based. Turning on AUR covers nearly everything instead of downloading .deb files or adding various repos as done with Ubuntu based distros.

        greynad

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #202905 Reply

      JohnW
      AskWoody Lounger
      • #202910 Reply

        Microfix
        AskWoody MVP

        From the Register:

        If you’re an Arch Linux user who downloaded a PDF viewer named “acroread” in the short time it was compromised, you’ll need to delete it.

        qpdfviewer is the default pdf viewer in Manjaro, acroread is a substitute in the software repo’s (now removed)

        | W8.1 x64 | Linux x64 Hybrid | W7 Pro x64 | XP Pro/ Home Offline
          No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT - AE
        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #207870 Reply

      JohnW
      AskWoody Lounger

      MrJimPhelps, on scanners and other peripherals: Would, perhaps, installing either Windows in a virtual machine running on Linux, or doing it the other way around, get over the problem of having peripherals that can be used with Windows but not with Linux. And the same question, if one replaced the word “Linux” with “macOS” in the previous statement — although there are quite a few commonly used peripherals these days that work just as well, indistinctly, with machines running either OS.

      Running Windows in a VM on Linux will allow you to access many peripherals connected to the host PC.

      The use of “USB pass through” will allow users to connect a USB peripheral to the host computer, without needing to install drivers for that device on the host OS.  The guest VM will see the USB device and you can install the drivers for using that peripheral in the guest VM operating system.

      I tried connecting a USB peripheral to a WinXP guest VM and I was able to get the USB pass through to work with VirtualBox.

      3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #209385 Reply

        MrJimPhelps
        AskWoody MVP

        This is a key benefit to having Windows in a VM on a Linux machine. Not only can you run Windows software, but you can also run whatever hardware will work in Windows.

        In fact, I can think of a case where getting a printer to work in the Windows VM allowed it then to work in the Linux host: my Canon wireless PIXMA printer. No matter what I did, I simply could not get Linux to find the printer (if I wanted it to be a wireless printer). However, if I first installed it as a wireless printer in Windows, Linux had no trouble then finding it as a wireless printer. My thought is that once the printer was joined to the router, Linux could find it. I think that Windows (or maybe Windows printer software) is better at finding a wireless printer than Linux is. This was with Linux Mint 18.2 64-bit xfce. (I have had inconclusive results with other versions of Linux Mint.)

        Group "L" (Linux Mint)
        with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #209661 Reply

          Ascaris
          AskWoody MVP

          I have several things like that I do with my Windows VM on a Linux host.

          One (and forgive me if you’ve read this before!) is using my bank’s website to deposit a check.  While most of them now allow check deposit via smartphone camera, I’ve only found one that will allow deposits via PC.  Ironically, while the venue (a website using a Java applet) is inherently platform-agnostic, I found that the Java applet could not see the scanner from Linux.  It wants the scanner to use TWAIN or WIA, but Linux (at least as I know it) uses SANE.

          I set up a VM with Windows 7 as the guest, using Firefox 52 ESR 32-bit as the browser.  Newer Firefoxes won’t run the Java plugin, and the 64-bit plugin didn’t run the applet correctly.  When I pass the scanner through to the VM, Firefox works perfectly with the scanner, allowing the deposit to go through.  I never use that browser with any URL other than my bank, so the insecure Firefox and Java won’t matter (if my bank is infected, my banking data is already at risk regardless of what browser I use).

          Ironically, my bank site complains about the old browser that I am only using because that same site uses Java.  I suppose I could use IE from within the VM, but Firefox works.

          The second thing is my gaming mouse’s programming software.  As you might expect, it only works in Windows.  The mouse has an onboard processor and NVRAM, and can be programmed to play back keypresses or key/event sequences (macros) that will work on any device the mouse is plugged into, which means it works in Linux.  With the mouse passed through to the VM, I can program it in Linux by using the Windows guest, then remove the pass-through and let the mouse be rediscovered by Linux, where it will then work with the new programming.

          The third thing is my USB GPS receiver.  It works in Linux just fine, but I have not found any Linux mapping software that works offline and can use the GPS.  GNOME Maps is buttery smooth in operation, but it doesn’t store the maps offline, and Mint doesn’t have the GNOME backend (location service stuff) to make the GPS work with it.  I use Microsoft Streets and Trips, in a VM, with the GPS receiver passed through.  It works perfectly.

          Incidentally, MS, having decided that no one wants to use PCs for mapping and navigation anymore, discontinued S&T after the 2013 edition, so that remains the last one, and even then you can’t actually register it.  You can still get the trial edition download, but MS won’t let you pay them for it!  Some people are trying to sell it on eBay for $500, but MS refuses to be paid for it.

           

          1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #209789 Reply

          MrJimPhelps
          AskWoody MVP

          You may have some very ancient must-have software that won’t run in any modern OS. For this type of situation, a VM can be a life saver.

          My pastor has a very ancient Greek and Hebrew word study program, designed for Windows 3.1 (I think). It absolutely will not run in Windows 8.1, not even in compatibility mode. And he has no desire to purchase a more modern version of the software.

          I set him up a Windows 2000 VM inside of his Windows 8.1 host, and the very ancient software runs just fine in the Windows 2000 VM.

          By installing Windows 2000 in a VM, there is no need to keep an ancient Windows 2000 computer around, taking up extra space on your desk, and subject to breakdown at any time.

          Group "L" (Linux Mint)
          with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
    • #210384 Reply

      anonymous

      As this is the Manjaro thread, it’s time I mentioned hardware is available with it pre-installed…
      Bladebook: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pXaAd4wBmQ
      Spitfire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ha43-bh_h3U

      I prefer Manjaro, but I understand most of you prefer to stick with a familiar Ubuntu based distro.

      greynad

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #212881 Reply

      anonymous

      Some of you might know Arch based gets stuff a bit earlier than others… Manjaro got Thunderbird 60 over the weekend (18-08-2018) and it’s now Quantum based like Firefox.

      See: https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/60.0/releasenotes/

      Experimental… mbox to maildir format and vice versa.

      greynad

      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #218693 Reply

      anonymous

      Manjaro is easy, no PPA’s, no Terminal has ever been needed for any of my Manjaro group.

      You’ll find everything needed (if available) from Canon Printers to plug-ins like G’Mic for GIMP in Manjaro’s ‘Add/Remove Software’ app. (once you turn on AUR).

      I have many on Manjaro Gnome, they love it and say they’ll never go back to Mint.

      Try an actual install (not Live) before dismissing Manjaro.

      If you want a Start Menu, I suggest Manjaro XFCE (or Budgie if you want it to look Win10-ish).

      I should add that I have a couple on Manjaro Budgie and that 3 are on Pop!_OS.

      All of us were on Mint Cinnamon for 2 years until beginning of this year.

      It’s also important to add Mint has improved greatly with it’s updates and inclusion of Timeshift (all since we migrated), but it’s been such easy sailing with Manjaro and can’t see them being willing to change unless something goes wrong.

      The 3 on Pop!_OS originally migrated from Mint Cinnamon to Manjaro Gnome, but became interested in purchasing System76 in future. They’re very happy with Pop! but haven’t purchased System76 as yet.

      Mint is good, so is Pop!, but I’ve always had to include some Terminal work in my install guides for Ubuntu based distros. Not had to with Manjaro which is cool because the word ‘Terminal’ freaks some people out.

      If you only intend to try live session of Manjaro, don’t bother and go straight to Mint/Pop!.

      Also, if you just want a Flash drive with ISO for an occasional live session use, then Mint/Pop! would be better than Manjaro.

      Manjaro is best installed, regularly updated, and never having to worry about version upgrades!

      greynad

      3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #218846 Reply

        anonymous

        Does Manjaro have Wine?
        I need Wine to install iTunes to play audible DRM files.
        How about other window based games?
        Thanks

        • #218891 Reply

          anonymous

          Wine, Winetricks, PlayOnLinux… are available in Manjaro’s ‘Add/Remove Software’ app.

          Steam is pre-installed, so are the MS Office Online (Excel, OneNote, Outlook, Powerpoint, Word) appearing as apps previously mentioned.

          greynad

          2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #218952 Reply

            anonymous

            Thanks greynad
            Sorry in advance for the ‘stupid’ question 😛

            From distrowatch, Manjaro is said to have –
            Desktop: bspwm, Budgie, Cinnamon, Deepin, GNOME, i3, KDE Plasma, LXDE, LXQt, MATE, Xfce
            1) How do I know what they look like and where can I have a visual example of those?
            2) In Manjaro, it is as simple as click and choose the desktop I want? Or do I need to install that particular version?
            3) Have you known any problems dual boot with Win7? With Ubuntu based, Win seems to block linux from reading the doc/pics there thus barring share or transfer files.
            4) If positive, do you know a way to get around that?
            5) Oh just to confirm – Manjaro is free right?! 😉 Is there any charges for any other add-ons?

            MANY many Thanks – you’ve been great help for newbie like me 🙂
            p/s I didnt try Mint but I am tempted to try Manjaro as the main OS in my next annual clean install

            • #219068 Reply

              anonymous

              Anonymous#218952, if you sign off with a pseudonym it will be easier to reply to your posts directly.

              I think I should start with dual-boot. My preference is to have each OS on separate physical drives.

              See my first ever post: https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/details-about-the-win10-pro-disappearing-group-policies/#post-38629

              That method served us well while we got used to Linux. These days I have several SSDs each with a different OS and use something similar to this… https://www.amazon.com/Vantec-2-5-Inch-Dual-Trayless-SATA

              If you’d prefer to use 3.5” HDDs… https://www.amazon.com/Connectland-CL-HD-MRUCD-5-25-Inch-Removable-3-5-Inch

              During the dual-boot years I advised only to reach over into the other OS to find something, then make a copy of it to the running OS and do what you want with it there. Never change, reorganise, delete, save, paste, anything in the other OS. Storing files on an additional drive without an OS (neutral territory) is an option.

              Another thing is Windows sets hardware clock to local time, but Linux sets it to UTC and displays local time to you. I decided to change Windows to set UTC and display local time like Linux.

              Hit Start & type in: regedit
              Open it & navigate to…
              HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\TimeZoneInformation
              Right-click in the right pane & select New > DWORD (32­bit)
              Name it: RealTimeIsUniversal
              Then double-click on it & give it a value of 1
              Restart PC & reset the displayed desktop time correctly

              As you’re on Win7 now, you might want to use the built-in utility to make a system image to an external drive before you do anything at all (consider making the repair disc too) to be safe.

              You asked what the different desktops look like, Manjaro XFCE looks like: https://www.fosslinux.com/2085/manjaro-gellivara-xfce-edition-17-0-5-in-10-screenshots.htm

              You’re used to a Start Menu, so XFCE would be ‘best fit’ Manjaro desktop to dual-boot with Win7.

              Please note that bspwm and i3 are two desktops you definitely do not want to try out, they are far from typical and won’t make a good first impression.

              VMs are mentioned a lot here, but I’ve never used one. I did look into it and was leaning towards VMware’s solutions, but didn’t take it any further. Other posters here are better qualified to answer such questions.

              Also, if you end up giving Mint a go, I still suggest doing the ‘sudo sed -i ‘s/false/true/g’ /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/00recommends’ Terminal command before installing any software as shown in my first ever post. Note: ‘00recommends’ is a Mint only thing, not Ubuntu or any other Linux distro.

              Hope this is helpful to you.
              greynad

              1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #219092 Reply

              Ascaris
              AskWoody MVP

              I’m not Graynad, and I don’t have much experience with Manjaro specifically, but I do use a flavor of Linux as my main OS now (currently KDE Neon on my main machines… I would have preferred Mint KDE, but they dropped that, unfortunately), and a lot of what you ask is applicable to any Linux flavor.

              1) How do I know what they look like and where can I have a visual example of those?

              Graynad answered that already, but I would like to add that all of the desktop environments come with theme support, so a lot of the look is based on the theme and not the DE.  Thinks like fonts, colors, icon selections, window borders and titlebars, buttons, etc., have their appearance determined by the themes in question.

              Cinnamon, Xfce, MATE, and KDE Plasma all have a basic schema that is (or can be) very similar to Windows, with the taskbar (called the panel in Linux) at the bottom, consisting of the clock with the system icons to the right, the running tasks in the center, and the main menu button on the left (in Windows, it would be the start button).  Most or all of those DEs also allow you to move the panel to the top or maybe the side, or add more panels while keeping the old ones.

              I don’t know about GNOME.  The last time I used it was ten years ago, well before GNOME 3.  I know it’s a lot less Windows-like than the four listed above.

              2) In Manjaro, it is as simple as click and choose the desktop I want? Or do I need to install that particular version?

              In any flavor of Linux, it is usually considered best practice to install the version that already contains the desktop environment (DE) in question.  You can easily install additional desktop environments onto an existing Linux setup (so you can select the one you want at the login screen), and for the most part they do work pretty well, but there can be conflicts at times, and not all features of a given DE may work when the DE is not the original one.

              Getting help with issues on a desktop environment that is not the original one for a given installation can also be difficult, since the configuration will be a combination of elements from the original desktop and the new one, and the info online will usually be about the DE as installed as the original one.

              3) Have you known any problems dual boot with Win7?

              I’ve used dual boot with Windows and Linux for about three years now… originally it was Windows 7 on the Windows end, though it is now 8.1.  I’ve never had any problems from the dual-boot setup directly, though other things (like resizing partitions on an existing drive, which I have done several times as I continued to give Windows volumes less space and Linux ones more space) have caused temporary (and easily fixed) issues.

              A lot of people fear dual-boot, and the reasons for that fear are not completely wrong, but IMHO they’re overblown.  Issues can happen, but that’s true of any computer, and Windows itself has been at fault a lot more than anything else.  As always, it is important to keep backups, and if you do, any issue that hits you can be immediately resolved, whether it is a Windows mishap or any other thing.

              With Ubuntu based, Win seems to block linux from reading the doc/pics there thus barring share or transfer files.

              I’ve used Ubuntu-based Linux exclusively for the three years I have used Linux, and I keep all of my data (videos, music, etc.) on both of my dual-boot PCs on a NTFS Windows partition, and both Windows and Linux read and write to it without any problem.  I will eventually put that on Linux EXT4 volumes since I’m moving away from Windows, but for now, the setup works just fine.

              The only issue(s) that would cause what you are describing (that I can think of)  is/are if you’re using the Windows fast boot/startup setting, if Windows is hibernated, or if the NTFS volume potentially has errors on it.  In order to preserve the data on the drive, the Linux OS will not mount (make available for use) the NTFS directory as read/write (the normal configuration) if any of those conditions are true, because the potential for data loss exists.  Because read/write is the way the NTFS volume is usually set to mount, Linux will simply refuse to mount it until the potential data loss issue is resolved.  This is a protective feature that is in all of the Ubuntu-based Linuxes I have used, and I would bet Manjaro has it too (they probably both use the same libraries to read and write NTFS volumes).

              Fast boot and hibernate both leave the NTFS volume in an in-between state, still mounted by another OS even though that OS is not active at that point, and it’s not safe for any other OS (Windows or Linux) to write anything to the volume while in that state.  Fast boot should be turned off if you are going to dual-boot, and if you hibernate Windows, you should always boot into Windows and then shut down normally before booting into Linux if you want to access the Windows volumes.  You may wish to simply turn off hibernation in Windows, in which case it will not be an issue.

              The other case is if the NTFS volume contains errors or if it was not shut down properly (which means it may or may not contain errors).  It’s up to Windows to fix the errors and clear the “dirty” bit (the thing that lets Windows know the drive may have errors, which makes Windows run a scan at boot time).  After that’s done, Linux will again be able to read and write to the volume.

              It’s been a really long time since I have had Linux refuse to mount a Windows partition.  I have fast boot OFF, I don’t use hibernate, and you seldom get errors if the OS that has the volume mounted is shut down properly.

              I didnt try Mint but I am tempted to try Manjaro as the main OS in my next annual clean install

              I don’t know much about Manjaro specifically, but I do like Mint a lot, and I would still be using it if they had not dropped their KDE version.  I’ve used and liked Cinnamon for a few years, but I discovered that it consumes a lot more battery than it should on laptops, which made me look at other setups.  KDE has recently impressed me a lot, and I like how powerful it is and how much it has improved over time.

              Since there is no more Mint KDE, I switched to Kubuntu (Ubuntu with KDE), then I upgraded that in-place to KDE Neon (which worked perfectly, after a little work).

              Manjaro and Ubuntu have a lot of similarities, of course, being flavors of Linux.  There are differences in some areas, but are identical in others.  They are similar enough to where the extensive Arch Linux documentation (Arch being the distro Manjaro is based on) on the web is still tremendously useful to me even though I use a Debian/Ubuntu derivative, not an Arch derivative.  Reading the Arch docs usually gives me enough info to then find out what’s different in Ubuntu, if anything.

              I still have to look stuff up pretty often about Linux (and maybe I always will… it’s about knowing what to search for, not in knowing everything offhand!), so one thing I like about Ubuntu derivatives is that there is just so much info out there about it that applies directly, without the adjustment that sometimes has to be done when adapting Arch info to my Ubuntu based installation.  If I search for a particular problem I am having, I often find an Ubuntu site describing the very issue I am having, and often the solution.  I can’t say how it is for other distros, though, not having had that experience.  Graynad can probably tell you how it is with Manjaro!

              Whichever one you choose, whichever desktop you end up using, you will almost certainly enjoy the freedom Linux gives you compared to Windows, especially Windows 10.

               

               

               

              2 users thanked author for this post.
            • #219134 Reply

              anonymous

              Thank you all kindly
              That was very helpful pointers and tips
              If I were to install Manjaro (host) and VM Win7 (guest)
              does any one know where can I get a good copy of win 7 ultimate .iso?
              Once the above VM has been made, can I just do a image backup restore of my current win7 (saved on external HD) to VM win7? Thats would save alot of time to reconfig the VM win7. Can this be done?
              The settings config in the VM win7 would not be reset to default after every shutdown right?
              my old machine is dying- i might as well jump into the deep end 🙂
              Any advice how to setup it up correctly and easiest way would be great! Much appreciated 🙂
              cheers,
              Anonymous#218952

    • #218832 Reply

      Microfix
      AskWoody MVP

      Thanks greynad, with the door closing on Windows 7/8 and home-users not wishing to adopt W10 on their systems, this is valuable info for PC users considering a move to Linux via Manjaro, Mint or POP!_OS whether Cinnamon, Gnome, budgie or XFCE.

      | W8.1 x64 | Linux x64 Hybrid | W7 Pro x64 | XP Pro/ Home Offline
        No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT - AE
      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #218875 Reply

      OscarCP
      AskWoody Lounger

      I apologize in advance for asking a question I have asked already somewhere at Woody’s and got an answer that, unfortunately, I have not been able to find now.

      If one runs some flavor of Linux on a VM, be it in a Windows PC or a Mac, can one copy PDF, text and LibreOfice files (or even Office files with something like Wine installed on the Linux OS) created in the VM to the host PC and vice versa, and do so even when the two OS file systems are different (as they are likely to be)?

      I am asking, because I know that, in general, executables created for one system by compiling their source files there will not run under the other, but documents of the types mentioned are important for my work, so I need to be able to move them from one OS to the other and, if necessary, edit them there and then move them back to their OS of origin. In fact, I am able to swap such files from macOS to Windows 7 and back, but this is between two “real” machines: a real Win 7, x64 PC and a real Mac.

      Thanks in advance for any helpful answers.

      Now, a probably silly Manjaro question: several people here, describing their experiences with Manjaro, have pointed out that they do not need to use “Terminal” (the application for accessing the Linux command line) at all.  I hope this does not mean “Terminal” is not readily and fully available, or even at all, to ordinary Manjaro users, like I could be. So… is the command line fully available to such users in Manjaro?

      • #218882 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        Files like Documents (doc, docx, txt, rtf, odf), spreadsheets xls, xlsx, csv(, PDFs, etc can be copied between Windows, MacOS, and Linux. You have to have an installed program that is capable of interpreting the contents of the file. If Libre Office, for example, can open a .doc file on Windows, and it can be installed on MacOS or Linux, then it can open the file on either.

        There is really no difference between the OS installed on a “real” machine and the OS installed in a VM as far as the user is concerned. Windows is Windows, Linux is Linux. (Although I haven’t heard of MacOS being installed in a VM on Windows or Linux, that doesn’t mean it’s not done).

        3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #218886 Reply

          OscarCP
          AskWoody Lounger

          PKCano, Thank you so much!

      • #218896 Reply

        anonymous

        OscarCP, Manjaro has Terminal ‘readily and fully available’. It’s just so far, it hasn’t been necessary to utilise it.

        Manjaro is one of the straight-out-of-the-box distros with many things already installed including codecs, more is available from the ‘Add/Remove Software’ app. including all the updates.

        The only things I haven’t used ‘Add/Remove Software’ for was browser extensions (uBlock Origin and Decentraleyes) for Google Chrome and Firefox.

        greynad

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #218916 Reply

          OscarCP
          AskWoody Lounger

          Thanks for explaining this, greynard.

      • #218924 Reply

        JohnW
        AskWoody Lounger

        In fact some VM programs such as VirtualBox will allow you to set up two-way clipboard access so that you can copy/paste between the host OS and the guest VM.  Virtually seamless!

        Shared folders is another option for moving files and documents back and forth.

        You are correct as far as executables are concerned.  They are limited to the OS that they are compiled to run on.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #219003 Reply

      JohnW
      AskWoody Lounger

      Thanks greynad Sorry in advance for the ‘stupid’ question From distrowatch, Manjaro is said to have – Desktop: bspwm, Budgie, Cinnamon, Deepin, GNOME, i3, KDE Plasma, LXDE, LXQt, MATE, Xfce 1) How do I know what they look like and where can I have a visual example of those? 2) In Manjaro, it is as simple as click and choose the desktop I want? Or do I need to install that particular version? 3) Have you known any problems dual boot with Win7? With Ubuntu based, Win seems to block linux from reading the doc/pics there thus barring share or transfer files. 4) If positive, do you know a way to get around that? 5) Oh just to confirm – Manjaro is free right?! Is there any charges for any other add-ons? MANY many Thanks – you’ve been great help for newbie like me p/s I didnt try Mint but I am tempted to try Manjaro as the main OS in my next annual clean install

      1. There are 3 official builds [XFCE, KDE, Gnome] available here (as well as the user guide covering download, install, etc.): https://manjaro.org/get-manjaro/

      The other community builds, or spins [bspwm, Budgie, Cinnamon, Deepin, etc.] are available here: https://manjaro.org/community-editions/

      2.  Pick the installer for the edition you want.  The best way to try them out to find the best one for you would be to use VirtualBox, to go beyond booting it live from the media, and before you get into actually installing it or setting up a dual boot.

      3-4. It’s been many years since I attempted a dual boot with any OS (only use VirtualBox now), but I understand that the new UEFI can complicate this.  There is a guide on the Manjaro Wiki for this: https://wiki.manjaro.org/index.php?title=UEFI_-_Install_Guide

      5. Yes, free!

      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #219116 Reply

      OscarCP
      AskWoody Lounger

      What are the bigger advantages and disadvantages of installing Linux (any distro that is familiar to you) as a dual-boot OS on a Windows PC, and installing it on a virtual machine on the same PC?

      Thanks, in advance, to anyone that takes the time to explain this and helps me sort it out.

      Windows 7, SP1 x64.

      • #219117 Reply

        PKCano
        AskWoody MVP

        In a dual boot, each OS stands alone – you boot to Windows OR you boot to Linux. You cannot access the non-booted OS from the booted one. Each OS is installed in a separate partition on the hard drive. It is like you have two separate machines.

        A virtual machine is an OS that runs within a virtual environment on a booted OS. Think of the guest OS as running in a “bubble” (big file) within the host OS. If your machine boots to Windows (host) for example, the virtual software (HyperV, VMWare, etc) creates a virtual “space” within the Windows OS for the guest OS. Both OSs can run at the same time. Depending on the settings, you can share files between the two OSs. The virtual software makes it possible for the guest OS to use the hardware of the host OS (processor, memory, ports, etc) by providing virtual drivers.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #219118 Reply

          OscarCP
          AskWoody Lounger

          Thanks, PKCano.

          Any disadvantages using VM over using dual-boot?

          One issue I am not too concerned about is speed. As long as things do not slow drastically when running the guest OS on the VM, I’d be fine with that.

          If this helps answer this question, more on my particular Win 7 machine: 8 GB ROM, 250 GB free on HD, 2 GHz I-7 “sandy Bridge” CPU ca. 2011. Which might not be too different from the machines of a few other Windows 7 fanciers, I’d guess.

          • #219120 Reply

            PKCano
            AskWoody MVP

            I much prefer VMs to dual boots, if your machine is capable of virtualization and of supporting both OSs simultaneously. If not, with dual boot, the running OS has the entirety of the hardware resources available to it alone.

            You should read my topics in the Mac Forum. Virtual machines work the same way, whatever the host and guest. Afterward, come back and ask what questions you have.

            2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #219121 Reply

            Microfix
            AskWoody MVP

            One of the disadvantages in a dual boot system is UEFI and can be an absolute PITA should something go wrong. IMO a VM is far safer, for inexperienced tinkerers: Linux as Host and Windows as a Guest VM (same set-up as @mrjimphelps)
            I tend to keep Linux and Windows completely separate (different PC’s)

            BTW: Manjaro site is down due to a major website refurb (and probably Host change due to increased traffic)

            | W8.1 x64 | Linux x64 Hybrid | W7 Pro x64 | XP Pro/ Home Offline
              No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT - AE
            2 users thanked author for this post.
            • #219133 Reply

              Ascaris
              AskWoody MVP

              Most of the systems I’ve set up as dual boot have been UEFI/GPT, and it’s been no different than BIOS/MBR.

      • #219138 Reply

        Ascaris
        AskWoody MVP

        You get better performance with a bare-metal installation as opposed to a VM.  CPUs that have virtualization features can run at pretty close to native speed in a VM, but things like GPUs are another story.  In a typical VM, guest graphics performance will be far slower than native performance on the same hardware.

        It is possible to set up a discrete GPU so that it belongs only to the VM guest and not to the host (the host has to have another GPU, perhaps the Intel integrated one), and to allow the VM to access that GPU without the virtualization layer, but that’s way beyond the scope of what we are talking about here.  I have no idea how one would do this, only that it has been done.  For most people that want to run Windows games but Linux for everything else, it’s going to be dual-boot (or separate machines).

        On systems with limited memory that cannot be upgraded, running two OSes at once obviously leaves you with a lot less usable RAM than just running one at a time.  The best solution is to buy more memory if you need it, but unfortunately, that’s not always an option.

        In my case, I set up dual-boot with the intent of migrating from Windows to Linux.  My systems started out as Windows, but once I saw the direction “the last Windows ever” was headed, I knew Linux was my future. With plenty of time before Win 7 (which I was using at the time) went EOL in terms of security updates, I would be able to migrate at my leisure, taking several years to complete the process if I wanted to.

        I wanted to have Linux up and running on the bare hardware so that I would know how it performs and behaves relative to Windows.  I had no experience doing the nitty-gritty system level stuff in Linux, and this was one way to get it.  If I was going to move to Linux full-time, I was going to have to get all that stuff set up one way or another, so why not kill two birds with one stone?

        The idea was to set everything up in Linux as in Windows, so that one by one, the tasks I do in Windows would be added to my Linux installation’s repertoire, and eventually I would not need Windows at all.  Other than Windows games, I’ve gotten there in the three years since I started, and I’m so soured on Windows now that my attitude is to forget about the games if they don’t have a Linux version.  I don’t plan to buy any more Windows software.

        Setting all that stuff up as a VM would not have worked.  I already had Windows installed before I installed Linux, and there’s no good way to migrate a bare-metal installation into a VM.  Simply imaging the install via backup program and restoring into the VM would work as far as simulating having the installation on the virtual hard disk, but the VM’s specifications are very different than the base machine.  I would not expect a transplanted installation to work nearly as well as it did (and does) on bare metal.  Even if it did, my Windows key would not work in the VM, so I would have to buy it again to get rid of the nags, and if I don’t plan on buying any more Windows software, I certainly don’t plan buying any more Windows.

        Now, if I was going to keep that Windows installation as it was, running a VM instead of dual-boot would mean Linux has to be the guest, with Windows as a host.  Migrating everything to a Linux VM isn’t what I wanted… I wanted to end up with a fully functional Linux installation that worked without any Windows involvement.  Moving everything into a Linux VM (guest) would give me experience dealing with Linux, but I would not end up with a fully capable, Windows-free PC when the migration was completed.

        There’s the option of imaging the completed Linux in the VM and restoring natively, but I would not expect a transplanted Linux from within the VM to bare-metal to work any better than the reverse using Windows.  I can’t say for sure, as I have not tried it, but I have tried migrating OSes on dissimilar hardware by moving a HD, and while it may work superficially after some reconfiguring, it is likely that there will be issues here and there popping up all the time, and ultimately I would end up installing clean– which would defeat the purpose of the migration totally.

        Setting up a dual-boot was the ideal solution.  For the last three years, I’ve had all of my data files accessible by either Windows or Linux… they’re all (well, mostly) in subfolders of my Windows desktop, just as they were before I installed Linux.  I have Linux links (shortcuts) to all of the Windows folders that I access from my Linux desktop. Workflow is identical… I can’t even tell the difference, other than the thing about Linux having a different permission system than Windows, so it doesn’t use them in NTFS volumes.  It works so well that I am not in any hurry to migrate that data to Linux volumes, even though I haven’t used Windows (other than in a VM) in months.  It’s not the best thought-out setup having most stuff in subfolders of Desktop, but it just kind of evolved that way starting with Win 95, and I’ve just kept it ever since.  I’m a creature of habit, and if it works, I tend to leave it alone.

        You can do this kind of seamless sharing in a VM too, by setting a shared folder that is accessed by the host and the guest.

        If the goal is to migrate from Windows to Linux, dual-boot is a great choice.  If the goal is to use Linux most of the time but be able to have full-performance Windows for gaming or other demanding tasks, dual-boot again is a great choice.  If you just want to be able to run Windows programs, but nothing where graphical performance is key, a Windows guest in a Linux host is far more convenient.  I’m a fan of dual-boot, but even I use VMs in the latter case.  I can fire up a Windows guest far faster than I can shut down Linux, reboot, and log into Windows, and I don’t have to stop doing whatever I was doing in Linux to use Windows when it’s in a VM.

    • #219119 Reply

      OscarCP
      AskWoody Lounger

      I m asking this separately, not to confuse matters:

      Would using Linux on a VM to access the Internet create additional vulnerabilities to malware other tan those already in the Linux version one is using?

      Thanks again.

      • #219122 Reply

        Microfix
        AskWoody MVP

        Linux on a VM? Host or Guest?

        I use Linux independently of windows, I have found no need for an AV in years of using Linux. Malware, rootkits etc are taken care of via Chrootkit/ RKHunter and security audits using lynis which gives recommendations on hardening your Linux. (which are followed where applicable YMMV)

        On my purist Linux systems, there are NO Microsoft based stuff like wine, fonts. emulators etc. Certainly helps that updates are a breeze without the need of a restart/ reboot (unless a kernel update arrives and I reboot out of habit when it suits me)

        | W8.1 x64 | Linux x64 Hybrid | W7 Pro x64 | XP Pro/ Home Offline
          No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT - AE
    • #219152 Reply

      OscarCP
      AskWoody Lounger

      Thank you, Ascaris and Microfix.

      As I mentioned before, I am not too worried about speed, as long as the machine does not slow down so much that it creates problems for what I do, where speed is nice but not vital, while running Linux on a VM. My main interest is in keeping Windows, already installed on the PC, and adding something that would let me use the full Linux capabilities, including running the system as superuser, installing application software, etc., which I have been spared from in the past, having always someone around whose job was to take care of that. And, of course, see what the Linux GUIs are like and how much I like any of them for doing what I am interested in doing. I have some expensive compilers in the Windows machine that I intend to keep on using, so Windows will be there for that and some other things, plus as a convenient depository of directly accessible data accumulated over the years that is still either potentially or actually useful to my work (all that is also backed up on an external hard disk, of course).

      But, when in need to connect to the Internet, I was hoping to find out here if doing this with a Linux version of Firefox, Waterfox, Chrome running on the VM, the machine itself will be reasonably safe from malware infections. In that case, I would not worry that much about Windows 7 no longer being supported after early January 2020, because I can count on the Linux OS in the VM continuing to be.

      Once I am confident enough with the nitty-gritty of running Linux entirely on my own, I’ll probably install it on another PC all by itself. Then I’ll have a Win 7 PC with Linux on a VM, a “real” Linux PC and a Mac.

      One more thing: if while running a Linux emulation on a VM in my Win 7 machine, I compiled there a program with a Linux compiler (e.g. gcc, gfortran, etc from the GNU), would the executable so created be “true” Linux that can be run on a “real” Linux machine?

       

      • #219157 Reply

        Ascaris
        AskWoody MVP

        If you run Linux Firefox, Chrome, etc., in a Linux VM (guest) on a Windows 7 host, you should be reasonably safe from malware even past the end of Win 7 updates.  You’d be essentially adding a sandbox for the entire browser.

        Linux is already safer than Windows (on the desktop) because nearly all malware is written for the biggest target, not one of the smallest ones, and if you keep the browser up to date on top of that and the sandbox effect, you’re in good shape.  If you use NoScript or the like, even better.

        Even if you just ran updated Firefox, Chrome, etc., within Windows 7 (and without Flash), you’d probably be ok.  There are no absolutes, so I can’t say you “will” be ok, but Windows 7 won’t suddenly become a malware magnet the day after support ends.  The biggest factor in security is the user, and if you don’t do any of the things people do to infect themselves, you are probably going to be fine.  Just setting a user-level account rather than admin would help a lot.

        UAC on an admin account can help if the user is not just in the habit of casually allowing everything (it’s not perfect, though; there have been reports of things that can bypass it).  That’s one thing I like about Linux… it, like the Unix it is patterned after, was designed with limited user privileges from the start.  Windows XP, the first NT-based consumer version of Windows, had limited accounts available, but it famously made the default account (the only one most people use) an admin account with the equivalent of root access all the time, even more powerful than an “admin” account in Linux that still requires elevation to superuser for administrative tasks.  This default meant that all the software written just assumed that it would only be installed or used by admin-level users, with no concern at all for privilege levels.

        UAC was a tacked-on way of trying to get a handle on the unfettered admin access while still allowing the software that assumed admin rights to work.  People got used to how easy it was in XP when you were already in admin mode, and the inconvenience of elevating privileges for admin tasks was not a part of the Windows culture, so to speak.  Apple even made fun of Vista’s UAC in their commercials, and that was with UAC just asking for an “OK” for admin tasks, not the entire password as in Linux.  Windows, though, did seem to need elevated privileges for a lot of things that maybe could have been user-level.

        Not running in root all the time and elevating only when necessary is part of the Linux culture, though, so all the software is written with privilege levels in mind.  KDE even took it so far as to remove the ability to run the file manager or text editor as root at all… which did not go over well, since the replacement (Polkit integration into Dolphin) isn’t ready yet.  They backed out the change, mostly, if you pass the right environmental variables to pkexec at the time of elevation (they tell you the string to use to do it, so it’s not as hard as it sounds).  Their text editors already have Polkit integrated, so all you have to do is try to save a file in a restricted area and it will automatically pop up the password prompt, then do the task and immediately drop privileges, so from the user perspective, the text editor never had root privs at all.  They are doing the same with the file manager (Dolphin), and when it’s done, it will be more convenient than elevating manually was.

      • #219155 Reply

        anonymous

        If this is as good as it appears: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHEVpbB_l3g

        Then re-purpose existing Win7 PC for your “real” Linux PC?
        Anyone here done it that way?

        greynad

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