It wasn’t supposed to happen until May 8, but I’m seeing confirmed reports from all over that Win10 1709 users who had the temerity to click “Check fo
[See the full post at: Many reports of Win10 1709 users getting pushed onto 1803]
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There are isolated problems with current patches, but they are well-known and documented on this site. |
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Many reports of Win10 1709 users getting pushed onto 1803
- This topic has 131 replies, 33 voices, and was last updated 5 years ago.
AuthorViewing 22 reply threadsAuthor-
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I have 5 home machines on Win10 (3 physical, 2 virtual). And yes, if I click “Check for updates”, it doesn’t find anything other than sporadically a Defender definitions update.
My machines are technically a month behind on updates, as I have quality updates deferred for 30 days – so the last batch of those I have installed are March’s. (I don’t know if having April’s installed is some sort of a prereq to get the offer for 1803, but it’s something I thought I’d mention.)
@ work, all of our org machines are either 1511 or 1703 (just over 2,200 total), and we just started rolling out the 1703 upgrade to all the 1511’s through SCCM. Everything I have at home though is just standard 10 Pro. (No Enterprise, no SCCM, no WSUS.)
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It wasn’t supposed to happen until May 8, but I’m seeing confirmed reports from all over that Win10 1709 users who had the temerity to click “Check for updates” are finding themselves thrust down the upgrade rabbit hole.
More fake news. The first part of your claim is just not true:
The April 2018 Update is available today if you go to Windows Update and manually check for updates. We will begin the global rollout out via Windows Update on May 8.
Windows 11 Pro version 22H2 build 22621.1778 + Microsoft 365 + Edge
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“Fake news” is a little harsh 😐
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“More fake news” is even more harsh. 🙂
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If ever there were an endorsement for making consistent, timely backups, this announcement of forced upgrade is it.
Carpe Diem {with backup and coffee}
offline▸ Win10Pro 2004.19041.572 x64 i3-3220 RAM8GB HDD Firefox83.0b3 WindowsDefender
offline▸ Acer TravelMate P215-52 RAM8GB Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1265 x64 i5-10210U SSD Firefox106.0 MicrosoftDefender
online▸ Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1778 x64 i5-9400 RAM16GB HDD Firefox114.0b8 MicrosoftDefender-
Right on … I’ve learned that the hard way! Now, I never update or upgrade anything without first:
1) Syncing my data with GoodSync (Actually, I do this one weekly.)
2) Creating a disk image with Macrium Reflect. I purchased three 1TB USB hard drives just for this purpose; one for each computer.
3) Creating a Restore Point
Haven’t had to fall back to any of them yet — which is a good thing. I only wish I had had sense enough to have those things in place when I upgraded to 1607! (That’s when I learned that the hard way.)1 user thanked author for this post.
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I have a suggestion.
If you put all the images for one computer on the same backup drive, and the drive goes out, you have lost everything for that computer.If instead, you rotate the drives between the computers (PC1 on driveA = Jan, PC1 on driveB, = Feb, PC1 on driveC = Mar: PC2 on drive B = Jan, PC2 on drive C = Feb, etc) If you lose a drive you only lose one month for one computer.
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Given Microsoft’s behavior of the recent past (GWX, forced 1709 upgrades, etc), I think this is just the latest update scam. It’s brilliant actually. You just float the May 8 date through the tech world knowing that many people would be updating their devices and locking them down in the week ahead of the anticipated release of 1803. Then you just release it a week early and when the user checks for updates, BOOM, the trap is sprung. Drive-by Malware Artists the world over are in awe of your accomplishment.
Group "L": Linux Mint dual-booting Windows 10 Pro.
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Drive-by Malware Artists the world over are in awe of your accomplishment.
We have a term where I work called “drive-by patching,” which occurs when, e.g. the Unix team patches the OS without informing anyone, so all the applications that were running on that server then have to be restarted, etc. This made me smile.
Group "L": Linux Mint
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Woody, I think that there’s an incorrect piece of info regarding telemetry. You can both set it via GUI and Group Policy in the Pro version… At least in my case. Build 17134.1.
ASUS PRIME Z270-K * Intel Core i7-6700 * 2 x 8 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2133 MHz * Aorus Radeon RX 570 4GB * Samsung 840 EVO 250GB SSD * SanDisk Ultra 3D 1TB SSD * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer PCI * Windows 10 Pro 21H2 64-bit1 user thanked author for this post.
One of my techs clicked check for updates on a PC repair which was ready to be delivered back to a customer. 3 hours of waiting later and the user profile is borked. Currently waiting for the rollback.
Can some one of the fanbois please explain why Enterprise customers get the choice not to send data to Microsoft but the rest of us have no choice. From the little I have seen of 1803 I am particularly irritated to see Cortana/Bing switched back on and currently immune to our registry hack.
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So glad Cortana is not available in Poland :).
ASUS PRIME Z270-K * Intel Core i7-6700 * 2 x 8 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2133 MHz * Aorus Radeon RX 570 4GB * Samsung 840 EVO 250GB SSD * SanDisk Ultra 3D 1TB SSD * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer PCI * Windows 10 Pro 21H2 64-bit1 user thanked author for this post.
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Can some one of the fanbois please explain why Enterprise customers get the choice not to send data to Microsoft but the rest of us have no choice.
Short snarky answer?
People pay to run Enterprise. Microsoft doesn’t have to try to skim profits from you by grabbing your valuable data.
Longer, possibly more realistic answer?
Users of non-Enterprise systems are expected to be willing early testers, paving the way for Enterprise users to feel confident enough to accept the update to version 1803 3 or 4 months from now. Microsoft needs that telemetry back from the early testers in order to patch the parts that break most often, or the whole scheme falls apart.
In every case that makes any sense, Microsoft is extracting value from you, either by your being an unpaid beta tester, or by advertising revenue from things targeted to you, or by some unspoken value they’re able to get from gathering a blob of “big data” from hundreds of millions of users.
-Noel
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Making the masses beta testers is at best idiotic. One primary problem is they do not know what to test, how to test it, or even worse what is supposed to happen per specifications. Nor is there away to file a bug report via something like Bugzilla. Compound this, the masses do not access, individually, to masses of hardware to test. Nor is there a way for the tester to talk directly to the developers or the reverse. So you are left with telemetry reports which are probably either excessively ‘complete’ or incomplete depending on the issue.
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Seems to me it’s obvious even to plankton that professional software needs professional testing.
Remember that bug that bit corporate users who needed to access files on servers a few versions back? It was a good case in point; the public can’t test Windows in that way, because they don’t access servers on their corporate LAN. Conversely, I should hope corporations don’t care much whether their employees can access Facebook through the embedded App without glitches.
-Noel
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Or the bug that prevent Epson dot matrix printers from printing. Where I work we still use dot matrix printers though they will phased out (hopefully). But at home some ink jets that are out of ink and a color laser jet but no dot matrix printers. So how would I even test a dot matrix? In fact I have not seen one for sale in retail store for years; probably could get one on Amazon. And other than testing, I have no need for dot matrix. So unless someone wants to pay me for the hardware and professional time, not going to happen.
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I beg to disagree here — they weren’t pushed to 1803 they manually checked for updates.
If you manually go to Microsoft update it will come down – this is what is called “seekers’. Don’t seek you don’t get.
Susan Bradley Patch Lady
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But users shouldn’t have to jump through all these infernal hoops to keep the detestable WaaS from forcing updates and upgrades upon us, especially upgrades, and especially on Pro versions. A simple “Update/Upgrade Now” button to click on after checking to see what’s available would be the right way to go. Otherwise, I call “Malware.”
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On my system, neither wushowhide nor update minitool found the update until I had manually run windows update and it appeared there. I was able to use mcbsys’s method on the “Patch Lady – 1803 is now officially available” thread to stop it and hide it once it appeared in windows update.
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I found it via wushowhide ONLY WHEN the “feature update” deferred was set to zero and “semi-annual channel (targeted)” was set. After I hid it, I set “feature update” deferred back to 365 and set “semi-annual channel”.
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No 🙂
i’m saying that since 1709, UUP handle the upgrades and Cumulative updates
legacy tools like WUMT or wushowhide can’t process them correctly, because the metadata is different and separate from Windows Update1 user thanked author for this post.
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You’re right, but we’ve never had that behavior before on “Day 1” of a new release.
It’s true that we WERE warned that clicking on “Check updates” would install 1803. The warning appeared on the same day that 1803 was posted — April 30 — as half of a sentence in a Windows blog post.
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Seriously though, shouldn’t I be able to check for available updates without having the latest UPGRADE crammed down my throat immediately? Should there not be an “Update/Upgrade Now” button to click BEFORE that happens? We all know why MS does it the “malware way”, and it’s not a good way to do business. In fact, on my computers I don’t even have to check for updates to get the latest upgrade crammed down my throat. I just have to turn on Windows Update Service without first changing my Internet connection to Metered. MS will more than likely fix that “bug” in their invidious WaaS before long. Come on now, if it quacks like a duck …
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Of course. It’s the new WaaS way. However, it shouldn’t be forced on me when I have all the tools and settings in place to let WaaS know I’m not ready for it right now. People have many reasons for needing, or just wanting, to be able to update and upgrade their computers on their own schedules. Usability, quality, stability, and not having their computers hosed, bricked or broken are a few examples. That used to be the case, and it worked great.
BTW, why are you so gung ho about MS using dishonesty, deceit, trickery, and just plain brute force to turn their users into beta testers and push their updates and upgrades onto users’ computers? How would it affect your user experience if “Check for Updates” meant check for updates instead of “Install all Available Updates and Upgrades”? How would it affect your user experience if updating and upgrading was a two-step process: 1) Check for Updates/Upgrades, and 2) Download and Install Updates/Upgrades?
That’s all I’m advocating. Of course, it can “mostly” be done anyhow with the right tools and settings, but MS has proven that even the settings they provide don’t always work as advertised.
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Though the Windows Update service gets turned on automatically now under conditions I haven’t yet identified. Even if WaaSMedic and a number of other obvious scheduled items are disabled.
While mildly interesting, this distinction between clicking a button to check and waiting for an automatic check is for the birds. It’s plain and clear we’re not meant to retain control…
Edit: See? Even I still called it “check” when really it’s more than that”. The button DOES say “check for updates” instead of “install available updates now”. This sure smells like an outright attempt at deception, presumably to enlist more unpaid testers sooner.
-Noel
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Exactly, and that’s no way to run a railroad!
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And after all we’ve read about what’s happened to others, you BELIEVE those controls will work?
Born every minute much?
-Noel
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Trapdoor. The view from Windows 7 says Windows 10 is malware.
Carpe Diem {with backup and coffee}
offline▸ Win10Pro 2004.19041.572 x64 i3-3220 RAM8GB HDD Firefox83.0b3 WindowsDefender
offline▸ Acer TravelMate P215-52 RAM8GB Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1265 x64 i5-10210U SSD Firefox106.0 MicrosoftDefender
online▸ Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1778 x64 i5-9400 RAM16GB HDD Firefox114.0b8 MicrosoftDefenderSo, installing Office and clicking Check for updates is not the recommended way to patch Office? I mean, I just want to Patch, not Upgrade!
This idiocy has to stop! How many work hours have to be lost to inconvenient upgrades and bad patches before someone fixes this “It makes Windows safer” lie? Is it normal for people to be afraid to patch their machines?
It began with GWX, it will die with Windows 10.zz?
Windows Home is now Windows 10
HomeFreeware edition (ad supported),Windows Pro is now Windows 10
ProPlus (paid, with ads, more features),Windows Enterprise is the previously named Windows 7 Pro, paid, user respect added.
The recipe for success is to make your users hate your products, abuse them and ignore their needs. Success guaranteed! /rant
Martin
I have 3 occasional-use-only computers with Windows 10 Home installed on them: a 2 year old Dell laptop, an old Dell netbook I use for testing that currently runs Windows 10 and 3-5 flavours of Linux at any given time, an an old HP Stream 7 tablet.
My laptop was built with Windows 10 factory installed and has been a candidate for immediate update with each new release since.
I’m leaving that one on metered connection for as long as it works, and/or until 1803 is no longer avoidable.Out of curiosity, I took the other two off metered connection last night and checked for updates. Much to my surprise and amusement, 1803 was available to both devices(?) and I let them update accordingly.
On the netbook, I was pleasantly surprised that Classic Shell reconfigured itself without crashing and seems to be working properly. On the other hand, my first pass through settings uncovered several privacy items that needed to be turned off again (location, camera, microphone and way more). Furthermore, my PDF and e-book default readers had been changed to Edge, and a handful of graphics format viewer defaults had been changed back to the Pictures app instead of Paint.NET. I have since restored them to my preferences, not Microsoft’s. I don’t really use Win10 for much on this machine, so I don’t know when I’ll get back to checking for other changes I didn’t get asked about or agree to, but I expect to find more.
The Stream tablet won’t boot into Windows at all at this point. It keeps freezing on a screen that requires input from a physical keyboard to even attempt to continue, even though this is a touch tablet. I’m going to have to connect it to a USB hub with keyboard and mouse to see if I can get into Windows at all. Might even need an external recovery drive to roll this back, if that’s possible. Fortunately there’s nothing of value or importance on the tablet so I can take my time with it.
Sorry for the super long post. Bottom line: no matter how smoothly 1803 installs when the time comes, be prepared to spend some time checking that it’s really set up to do things the way you want to do them.
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Update: After several attempts to repair the 1803 install, I finally had to use a USB recovery image to roll my Stream 7 tablet back to 1709. Restored the metered connection setting, and don’t plan to attempt updating to 1803 again until it’s simply unavoidable. Hopefully that will be several months from now.
If they are on SAC targeted, then the behavior is intended
whether users got it auto or manually checkingwhy we act like it’s a surprise with every release? 🙂
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Clicking “Check for updates” on Day 1 of a new version release has never brought down the update, has it?
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Yes it does 🙂
up until 1607 era, new versions (and refreshed ESD releases) always hit WU before MCT and WSUS
before UUP was implemented, joining Windows Insider or changing Rings, the user would have to wait sometimes for a whole day before it get the preview build
but with UUP, everything is instantthat being said, version 1803 was delayed more than possible, maybe that’s the reason for opening doors for it all at once (WU, WSUS, MCT, VLSC)
1 user thanked author for this post.
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Yes, the seeker behavior has been there before. I’ve been bit by it.
That’s why I set defer quality updates = 0 in the GUI and in GP set Auto Updates = Enabled, 2 (notify download/install). That way Win10 does the search and I can see the updates in WU right off, but I have “Download” button and wushowhide between me and disaster.
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Back when I WANTED a new version of Windows 10, I never had any luck getting it by pressing the [Check for Updates] button. I always figured there were throttling mechanisms in play and I just never got lucky. I sought out .iso files and got my test systems going that way.
Now, I’ve got all the “defer” settings on, and I certainly am NOT actively checking for updates(!!), since at this moment I’m actually using Win 10 to develop some features (pertaining to per-monitor v2 UI scaling in my Windows applications). I also have VMware snapshots saved, so there’s NO WAY Microsoft can unexpectedly take away my functional working environment by “accidentally” downloading the update.
Lord knows I sure wouldn’t be very comfortable if I was having to actually rely – without easy recovery mechanisms backing me up – on Win 10 remaining stable all through the time I need it to be stable in order to accomplish real work. I’m sorry to have to break the news, Microsoft, but the smallest little thing in my schedule easily trumps the grandest in yours.
-Noel
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To be fair, the warning only said that checking for updates would make this one available. I guess it’s a core feature of Windows 10 that once something is made available it’s automatically installed, but that really shouldn’t be the case. You should be able to check for updates and then decide what you want to do about any that are made available – which is how the blog post made it sound.
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Right on, @Self … You nailed it!
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Windows 10 periodically checks for updates so you don’t have to. When an update is available, it’s automatically downloaded and installed, keeping your device up to date with the latest features.
To check for updates now, select the Start button, and then go to Settings > Update & security > Windows Update, and select Check for updates. If Windows Update says your device is up to date, you have all the updates that are currently available.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-my/help/4027667/windows-update-windows-10
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To be fair, the warning only said that checking for updates would make this one available.
It didn’t:
On the Settings page, navigate to Update & security > Windows Update.
Once there, simply click “Check for updates” to begin the download and installation process.Windows 11 Pro version 22H2 build 22621.1778 + Microsoft 365 + Edge
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Right. Just like we expect “check the price” to be a committment to buy.
Only a devious person trying to manipulate unsuspecting persons could possibly think that misleading people who do “check” into “commitment” is proper.
Remind me who was debating whether Windows acts like malware in this very thread…
-Noel
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Noel, I don’t know if your comment was in response to my “Fair enough”, but just to clarify – I was referring to the correction to my earlier comment as it seems the blog post did say that checking for updates would lead to download and installation. My being corrected was fair enough, not the tactics of Microsoft.
I’m certainly not saying that such action is “fair enough”, and it’s but one of the reasons I really don’t want to go anywhere near Windows 10 if I don’t have to!
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Remind me who was debating whether Windows acts like malware in this very thread…
It started with GWX, which infamously gave people a choice between “Upgrade now” and “upgrade later,” with “upgrade later” being in the lower right corner of the dialog, right where one would expect “Cancel” to be in the Windows world.
By the time someone ran into that GWX malware, they’d undoubtedly already seen dozens of examples of pop-ups from web sites that want you to subscribe to their newsletter or some such thing, with “Yes! Sign me up!” and “Maybe later” as the only choices. These Windows users had surely learned that “Maybe later” did, in fact, mean “cancel,” with the caveat that dismissing the offer now doesn’t in any way suggest you won’t be prompted again in the future (which is why the web authors used that wording instead of “Cancel”).
So these people now encounter the same in GWX, and understandably conclude that “upgrade later” must mean the same as “maybe later” in those web site dialogs, which is to say that it was the same as “Cancel.” If it didn’t mean that, surely, the GWX dialog would have an actual button marked “Cancel,” as is the convention with MS, right?
In this case, though, “Upgrade later” didn’t mean “stop bothering me now and ask again later.” It meant “Wait an indeterminate period of time, and then begin the upgrade process with no further consent from me.”
That kind of thing is why GWX crossed the line from adware (which should still never have been delivered via the formerly trusted Windows Update system) to malware. It uses a dark pattern to trick people into thinking they’re dismissing the offer for now, with a distinct possibility that the same offer would be uh, offered again later.
The idea that “upgrade later” would mean what it actually did mean rather than “I reject the offer for now, but you can ask me again later” is just so far beyond good faith that there’s no possible way MS can mean this in anything other than a malicious way. They knew exactly what they were doing, and no doubt planned for hiding behind the literal interpretation (“Well, you did say upgrade later, and that’s all we did!”) when they clearly knew what they were doing was sneaky and deceptive.
This latest incident just proves that Microsoft is still being just as sneaky and deceptive as they were during the GWX days. What’s this I keep hearing about a new Microsoft that’s nicer and kinder than the old one? At least the old one was harsh to its competitors… the new one is harsh to its own customers!
Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/16GB & GTX1660ti, KDE Neon -
Microsoft’s deceptive red [X] like exit/ close button that started the W10 upgrade instead of exiting/ closing the dialogue box.
Screenshot below..
Keeping IT Lean, Clean and Mean!5 users thanked author for this post.
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Windows 10 periodically checks for updates so you don’t have to. When an update is available, it’s automatically downloaded and installed, keeping your device up to date with the latest features.
M$ should have only enforced this policy if her updates are proven to be 99.99% without any Stop-Error or BSOD.
To be fair, especially to computer novices, M$ should revert this policy, eg after nearly 3 years of Win 10, some Win 10 users have become fearful (= FUD) of M$’s forced auto-updates.
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This may be the main reason Win 10 has dropped a bit and Win 7 has risen a bit in Netmarketshare’s latest April 2018 numbers.
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I got the 1803 yesterday; it took 2 hrs to download and install and another 30m to adjust- change privacy definitions etc. however the ‘killer’ for me is that windows photo viewer no longer works on 1803- it worked on all previous versions. I use this utility a lot – simply to view photos . it is the quickest and lightest I know. therefore I rolled back to 1709.
does anyone has a suggestion re: windows photo viewer utility?
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Irfan View is a non-Microsoft free for personal use application that I’ve found very handy over the years for associating with virtually every kind of image file. It opens a fair number of video file types too.
irfanview.com
-Noel
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I’ll second that.
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And FastStone Image Viewer.
Always been my favorite, not least for it’s renaming capabilities…
But for reading geodata files, Irfanview rocks! 😀
1 user thanked author for this post.
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I guess that MS really really wants you to use their bloated photo program!!
I’ve been using Windows photo viewer for ages, thanks for the “Heads-up” on the removal.
Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does 🙂
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).1 user thanked author for this post.
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Windows Photo Viewer was never removed from Windows 10, they only removed the capability to use it normally
you can restore that capability easily with registry file, but it recuire some “high” permissions
you may use this from me 🙂
https://drop.me/oXKOxEjust run the script as admin, then restart File Explorer
you will find Photo Viewer available in Default Programs
Can you define warning?
1 user thanked author for this post.
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My Cambridge Dictionary says it’s “something that makes you understand there is a possible danger or problem, especially one in the future.”
The blog said, “On the Settings page, navigate to Update & security > Windows Update. Once there, simply click “Check for updates” to begin the download and installation process.”
Looks like a warning alright, but since the “warning” was posted, probably, after, or certainly not long before, MS had already started forcing the upgrade on unsuspecting average users who thought that “Check for Updates” actually meant what it says, instead of “Install All Available Updates and Upgrades,” and since VERY few, if any, average users actually read that blog post at all, the “warning” falls a little short of the target.
Come on, ya’ll … we all know WaaS has turned Windows updates and upgrades into Malware, pure and simple. In fact, Windows 10 itself qualifies as Malware, and we all know why.
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Also using the long label ‘download and install process’ suggests a multiple step process that can be held at intervening points without a rude halt in the middle.
If the button’s function is to launch an unstoppable single action that ends in full installation; then label that button ‘INSTALL NOW’. We already know that will require a download first.
The purpose of the extra language is to confuse for the benefit of Microsoft.
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I believe the label ‘unpaid beta tester’ is fairly well known without the need to look very far. If you retire or reassign your entire QA to save money in exorbitant personnel costs of salary, health care, fringe benefits, and retirement, then recover the lost labor through the use of unpaid beta testers; I would label that as a benefit to the corporation’s bottom line. Just thinking within the box a little.
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added by edit:
Shame on me for again falling for your diversion from the main point of how to label a button. You have good debate skills in moving focus around.1 user thanked author for this post.
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Focus shifting again. You asked, cui bono? I answered with a possible, and frequently discussed scenario where Microsoft benefits in cold hard dollars, aside from the collected data and control. Yet you then trot off into yet another tangent. Anonymous called you on it. That is sufficient.
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Nope. Not going to let you redefine history and move the goalpost all in one reply.
I commented that a deliberate misuse of common language creates benefit for Microsoft. You ignored common knowledge and asked for a specific benefit to Microsoft. I answered one in detail, and alluded to two more. Then you shifted to blaming the hapless user/owner for doing something they should have known better than to do. I think that one also qualifies as victim shaming. You are really racking up a tally here.
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They have volunteer Insiders for that.
Like my 80-year-old father-in-law, whose computer was bricked by an unauthorized upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10. I had installed GWX Control Panel on his computer and set it specifically to deny any Windows 10 upgrades. Microsoft was well aware of the controversy surrounding their unauthorized upgrades to Windows 10, and they were well aware of GWX Control Panel and other such programs. But they arrogantly disregarded this with my father-in-law and bricked his computer in the process.
It would be nice if Woody could provide some of his “confirmed reports from all over”.
Woody very often provides confirmed reports. I’m not sure how you have missed this, because you have been on AskWoody for a very long time.
Group "L" (Linux Mint)
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They have volunteer Insiders for that.
“after about 4 months, we will announce broad deployment readiness, indicating that Microsoft, independent software vendors (ISVs), partners, and customers believe that the release is ready for broad deployment”
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/deployment/update/waas-overview
Name it as you want, but it looks like beta testing for me.
ASUS PRIME Z270-K * Intel Core i7-6700 * 2 x 8 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2133 MHz * Aorus Radeon RX 570 4GB * Samsung 840 EVO 250GB SSD * SanDisk Ultra 3D 1TB SSD * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer PCI * Windows 10 Pro 21H2 64-bit
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To me, I will just say how things should work, not how they comply with some blog post that no user should have to read to enjoy adequate OS behavior.
First, I am on 1703, now fully patched after being unwillingly unpatched later than December right after installing 1703 in April right after end of support for 1607. Maybe the fact I changed my GP policies helped to see the patches after no patches for 8 days. It is like I got upgraded from a fully patched 1607 to a not patched after December 1703 and Windows update saying I was up to date when I clearly was not. Playing with the deferral GPs didn’t change the UI of settings until the next day. Then Windows update got in a panic and said I really needed to install patches right now to be safe. Odd behavior, like you can set anything in GP and it will only be updated once a day or something in the settings panel where Windows update is. Yes, I did restart and used gpupdate /force to no avail. Anyway, my hypothesis is that somehow after a feature update I got an automatic deferral of quality updates for 35 days although I had mine set on 5 days on 1607 just to have some time to react if anything really bad came up here. But…
I use check for updates to check if I am fully patched, not to download a new OS crippled with new bugs and things removed that I liked, things forced that I don’t like and new things to check because I am sure I won’t like some defaults where they guessed I wanted to share my intimate life with them. Sounds, legitimate, eh? It should tell me if I am fully patched or not. Granted, I didn’t get offered 1803 because they didn’t forget to honor the GPs since I waited so long to install 1703 they had time to fix that “mistake”. Maybe it is a good reason to always run the oldest supported release or at least not jump on the latest one and maybe skip the ugly ones. No windows photo viewer and forced web searches? I would love people to skip this one to send a clear message, but I am not idealistic to the point of believing it can happen or will change anything.
Ok, so my point is you should be able to legitimately verify if you are patched without gettting forcefed the latest upgrade. It seems to work with the GPs on Pro. Good for me.
Here is my suggestion to you MS on how things should be on all versions, not just Pro. And I don’t care that you write it here and there on a blog or in the settings, I want good behavior, not coherence with your bad message.
So here it is:
Distinguish between new OS installs called feature updates, new feature updates called quality updates and security only updates and first find better names for that confusing mess.
Then offer three layers of automatic updating: all, quality and security, security only.
Then always offer the choices for each layer, like before: check only, download only, download and install.
Then allow people to defer for a reasonable time each tier automatically or through not clicking install on an individual update if you have the not install automatically policy in effect and respect this deferral policy (as in UI policy, not group policy, so even Home users can choose) or one time wish. Then forcefeed the updates according to said maximal schedule when maximal authorized deferral time is attained. Then, yes at some point nobody will be left behind and you will have it your way, but at least the people who want to legitimately want the dust to settle a bit for novelties they don’t want won’t have to go to so many means to cripple your wonderfully self-healing update mechanism. You will have your cake and eat it then. But users who don’t know a thing about computer and who leaves default settings will still suffer your beta testing creations and might end up having an unbootable computer anyway. At least, you would have better support from power users. As for the others, I just hope they get away from your ugly OS and buy a Chromebook, a Mac or an Ipad. You don’t deserve their business.
As for me I would defer to the maximum amount of time permitted the OS installs and the quality updates. As reliability and not bothering my business is my priority, I am sure I would have less trouble only having security updates almost right away (I would defer 5 days) and the rest later when more tested. Oh and if a security update was causing issue, I would just use the ability you would provide to easily see and uninstall each update when maximal delay hasn’t been reached. Then, I would do like you asked, trust you on managing updates, because if it didn’t work, you would let me uninstall the patch until you fix it, right? And you would fix it before maximal time you allow to not have the patch is reached, right? And also you would describe patches better so if I suspect a patch broke something, I could easily see it did by looking at the description maybe and then just uninstall this one temporarily?
Wow, that would be working together wouldn’t it?
It would be like a mix of group B and A, the cumulative rollups being forced after a reasonable amount of time, but the latest patches being served à la B, so you can keep one security update but not the other patch that breaks your system. But you would still have nobody not patched to a common denominator after a set time. Sounds less hard to manage that Windows 7 and its ultimate pick and choose of the earlier years, an acceptable compromise for the sanity of everyone?
And by the way, when will you get it that home users don’t test Windows the same way business users use their computer and you can’t skip testing better if you want to follow a moronic WaaS model and not anger business customers in addition to the home customers? Not that the latest are less important although they might not be to you.
And Christmas in July or September, I will ask again until I get it, an off switch to telemetry. If I don’t want it, too bad for me, ok? Also, no more forcing of data collection and use of your BingCortEge. Let me choose or else you will anger me and make me want to leave.
Remind you of anyone?
Dell Precision 3630 w/32 GB RAM, 500 GB (C:), 1 TB (D:)
Window 10 Pro x64
Internet: FTTC (Fibre to the Kerb)5 users thanked author for this post.
I come to desktop support after a career in manufacturing as a semiconductor process engineer. I fail to understand why typical six sigma QA do not apply to Microsoft. My first patch recovery Wednesday involved a defect rate by MS patches at 3/25. I now know how to pause for 30 days as I await a new instance of WSUS. All of this discussion can be prevented by an authentic QA process.
Would you accept a defect rate of 3/25 for pace makers, condoms, HIV test, etc? I think not. Yet, this insanely flawed process is a true national security issue. The standard for patch Tuesday is orders of magnitude greater than consumer goods. Death and destruction will strike on a massive scale eventually without a proper six sigma process control at MS patching and features.
If any process deserves six sigma, it is this one. Would you install brake pads on your family vehicle if the instructions stated the need to verify the quality of the product prior to installing? I think no one would purchase such brake pads. Is the burden of proving quality on the surgeons implanting a pace maker? It is time to educate Congress and force this insanity to end now.
Kurt
1 user thanked author for this post.
I did not click on windows updates and when I can in this morning my computer was updating to 1803.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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You may have already seen this:
https://www.askwoody.com/2018/multiple-reports-that-windows-update-is-overriding-the-metered-connection-setting/
leaving for others who come later as well.1 user thanked author for this post.
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Yep … unfortunately, I did. 🙁
Thanks for referencing the other thread here, though. Good idea.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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