• Many reports of Win10 1709 users getting pushed onto 1803

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    #189240

    It wasn’t supposed to happen until May 8, but I’m seeing confirmed reports from all over that Win10 1709 users who had the temerity to click “Check fo
    [See the full post at: Many reports of Win10 1709 users getting pushed onto 1803]

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    • #189246

      I have branch readiness set to Semi-Annual Channel and feature updates deferred for 365 days and none of my 1709 Pro machines are being offered the 1803 update. Obviously YMMV

      Kinda misleading to say that people who click “Check for updates” are getting the update and not expecting that to happen. Obviously they’re not set for SAC or deferring updates. My machines are, and if I click “Check for updates”, I’m not getting 1803.

      • #189252

        zero2dash, did you click on “Check for Updates” with the deferral settings? and how many 1709 machines do you manage? thanks for the information.

        • #189255

          I have 5 home machines on Win10 (3 physical, 2 virtual). And yes, if I click “Check for updates”, it doesn’t find anything other than sporadically a Defender definitions update.

          My machines are technically a month behind on updates, as I have quality updates deferred for 30 days – so the last batch of those I have installed are March’s. (I don’t know if having April’s installed is some sort of a prereq to get the offer for 1803, but it’s something I thought I’d mention.)

          @ work, all of our org machines are either 1511 or 1703 (just over 2,200 total), and we just started rolling out the 1703 upgrade to all the 1511’s through SCCM. Everything I have at home though is just standard 10 Pro. (No Enterprise, no SCCM, no WSUS.)

          3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #189529

          If I am not mistaken, 1511 wasn’t supported and patched no more. Are you saying your big organization ran a significant amount of computers unpatched for a long time? Doesn’t sound like progress compared to running a fully patched Windows 7 and doesn’t feel like Most secure Windows ever can work if it runs unpatched. Not blaming, just wondering if it ended up being the reality of Windows 10at your work.

    • #189250

      It wasn’t supposed to happen until May 8, but I’m seeing confirmed reports from all over that Win10 1709 users who had the temerity to click “Check for updates” are finding themselves thrust down the upgrade rabbit hole.

      More fake news. The first part of your claim is just not true:

      The April 2018 Update is available today if you go to Windows Update and manually check for updates. We will begin the global rollout out via Windows Update on May 8.

      How to get the Windows 10 April 2018 Update

      Windows 10 Pro version 21H2 build 19044.1682 + Microsoft 365 (group ASAP)

      4 users thanked author for this post.
      • #189253

        You’re right. I’m updating the article as we speak….

        Thanks!

        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #189268

        “Fake news” is a little harsh 😐

        3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #189270

          Other commentators managed to get it right, e.g.:

          However, Windows Update won’t install Windows 10 version 1803 automatically. You should manually check for updates to get it. Microsoft is going to roll out it via their automatic delivery service starting on May 8.

          https://winaero.com/blog/windows-10-april-2018-update-now-available-for-download/

          Windows 10 Pro version 21H2 build 19044.1682 + Microsoft 365 (group ASAP)

        • #189301

          Maybe Woody was a bit quick with the wrong info (which he has since corrected), ao it was good that you picked up on it, but “fake news” usually suggests deliberate deception, hence was a bit harsh.

          3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #189352

          Honestly, I would expect Woody to be a bit more in the know about this stuff.

        • #189856

          Me, too. 🙂

          There’s more to the story. Coming up in Computerworld.

        • #189345

          “More fake news” is even more harsh. 🙂

          1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #189257

      If ever there were an endorsement for making consistent, timely backups, this announcement of forced upgrade is it.

      On hiatus {with backup and coffee}
      offline▸ Win10Pro 2004.19041.572 x64 i3-3220 RAM8GB HDD Firefox83.0b3 WindowsDefender WuMgr
      offline▸ Win10Pro 20H2.19042.685 x86 Atom N270 RAM2GB HDD WindowsDefender WuMgr GuineaPigVariant
      online▸ Win11Pro 21H2.22000.675 x64 i5-9400 RAM16GB HDD Firefox101.0b6 MicrosoftDefender WuMgr
      3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #189354

        Right on … I’ve learned that the hard way! Now, I never update or upgrade anything without first:
        1) Syncing my data with GoodSync (Actually, I do this one weekly.)
        2) Creating a disk image with Macrium Reflect. I purchased three 1TB USB hard drives just for this purpose; one for each computer.
        3) Creating a Restore Point
        Haven’t had to fall back to any of them yet — which is a good thing. I only wish I had had sense enough to have those things in place when I upgraded to 1607! (That’s when I learned that the hard way.)

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #189358

          I have a suggestion.
          If you put all the images for one computer on the same backup drive, and the drive goes out, you have lost everything for that computer.

          If instead, you rotate the drives between the computers (PC1 on driveA = Jan, PC1 on driveB, = Feb, PC1 on driveC = Mar: PC2 on drive B = Jan, PC2 on drive C = Feb, etc) If you lose a drive you only lose one month for one computer.

          5 users thanked author for this post.
        • #189378

          Fantastic suggestion, @PKCano … I’m saving a copy of this in a file and, hopefully 🙂 get it worked out in my mind how to make it happen. Thanks much!

          1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #189400

          Also don’t leave your backup drive plugged in (USB or power) so it is exposed to risk (virus, electrical, etc..) as little as possible.

          Should go without saying not to plug in your backup drive if you think you have a virus.

          2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #191704

          Please allow me to add (I absolutely agree with your main point): it is also possible to use the same external USB HDD as an image backup device for several different Win7 machines;

          but *** it is absolutely fatal to try to put a Win10 image ADDITIONALLY onto the same HDD ***.  (Either order: Win7 followed by Win10, or Win10 followed by Win7.)

          ALL OF THE VARIOUS IMAGES ARE THEN UNREADABLE.  (I’m talking about Win7/Win10 | Control Panel | Back up your computer | Create a system image.)

          HMcF

          Edit to remove HTML

    • #189258

      Given Microsoft’s behavior of the recent past (GWX, forced 1709 upgrades, etc), I think this is just the latest update scam. It’s brilliant actually. You just float the May 8 date through the tech world knowing that many people would be updating their devices and locking them down in the week ahead of the anticipated release of 1803.  Then you just release it a week early and when the user checks for updates, BOOM, the trap is sprung. Drive-by Malware Artists the world over are in awe of your accomplishment.

      Group "L": Linux Mint dual-booting Windows 10 Pro.

      7 users thanked author for this post.
      • #189275

        I have to agree. Why let it install via Windows Update WHEN YOU DO NOT CHECK FOR UPDATES EARLIER and trigger installation when you click “Check for updates”? I can’t think of any sensible reason.

        ASUS PRIME Z270-K * Intel Core i7-6700 * 2 x 8 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2133 MHz * Aorus Radeon RX 570 4GB * Samsung 840 EVO 250GB SSD * SanDisk Ultra 3D 1TB SSD * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer PCI * Windows 10 Pro 21H2 64-bit
    • #189264

      Drive-by Malware Artists the world over are in awe of your accomplishment.

      We have a term where I work called “drive-by patching,” which occurs when, e.g. the Unix team patches the OS without informing anyone, so all the applications that were running on that server then have to be restarted, etc.  This made me smile.

      Group "L": Linux Mint

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #189285

      Woody, I think that there’s an incorrect piece of info regarding telemetry. You can both set it via GUI and Group Policy in the Pro version… At least in my case. Build 17134.1.

      ASUS PRIME Z270-K * Intel Core i7-6700 * 2 x 8 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2133 MHz * Aorus Radeon RX 570 4GB * Samsung 840 EVO 250GB SSD * SanDisk Ultra 3D 1TB SSD * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer PCI * Windows 10 Pro 21H2 64-bit
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    • #189284

      One of my techs clicked check for updates on a PC repair which was ready to be delivered back to a customer.  3 hours of waiting later and the user profile is borked.  Currently waiting for the rollback.

      Can some one of the fanbois please explain why Enterprise customers get the choice not to send data to Microsoft but the rest of us have no choice.  From the little I have seen of 1803 I am particularly irritated to see Cortana/Bing switched back on and currently immune to our registry hack.

      3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #189288

        So glad Cortana is not available in Poland :).

        ASUS PRIME Z270-K * Intel Core i7-6700 * 2 x 8 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2133 MHz * Aorus Radeon RX 570 4GB * Samsung 840 EVO 250GB SSD * SanDisk Ultra 3D 1TB SSD * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer PCI * Windows 10 Pro 21H2 64-bit
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      • #189364

        Can some one of the fanbois please explain why Enterprise customers get the choice not to send data to Microsoft but the rest of us have no choice.

        Short snarky answer?

        People pay to run Enterprise. Microsoft doesn’t have to try to skim profits from you by grabbing your valuable data.

        Longer, possibly more realistic answer?

        Users of non-Enterprise systems are expected to be willing early testers, paving the way for Enterprise users to feel confident enough to accept the update to version 1803 3 or 4 months from now. Microsoft needs that telemetry back from the early testers in order to patch the parts that break most often, or the whole scheme falls apart.

        In every case that makes any sense, Microsoft is extracting value from you, either by your being an unpaid beta tester, or by advertising revenue from things targeted to you, or by some unspoken value they’re able to get from gathering a blob of “big data” from hundreds of millions of users.

        -Noel

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        • #189436

          Making the masses beta testers is at best idiotic. One primary problem is they do not know what to test, how to test it, or even worse what is supposed to happen per specifications. Nor is there away to file a bug report via something like Bugzilla. Compound this, the masses do not access, individually, to masses of hardware to test. Nor is there a way for the tester to talk directly to the developers or the reverse. So you are left with telemetry reports which are probably either excessively ‘complete’ or incomplete depending on the issue.

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        • #189470

          Seems to me it’s obvious even to plankton that professional software needs professional testing.

          Remember that bug that bit corporate users who needed to access files on servers a few versions back? It was a good case in point; the public can’t test Windows in that way, because they don’t access servers on their corporate LAN. Conversely, I should hope corporations don’t care much whether their employees can access Facebook through the embedded App without glitches.

          -Noel

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        • #189511

          Or the bug that prevent Epson dot matrix printers from printing. Where I work we still use dot matrix printers though they will phased out (hopefully). But at home some ink jets that are out of ink and a color laser jet but no dot matrix printers. So how would I even test a dot matrix? In fact I have not seen one for sale in retail store for years; probably could get one on Amazon. And other than testing, I have no need for dot matrix. So unless someone wants to pay me for the hardware and professional time, not going to happen.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #189555

        There just HAS to be a version that is HIPAA & GDPR compliant. So there is one – but you have to pay :).

        ASUS PRIME Z270-K * Intel Core i7-6700 * 2 x 8 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2133 MHz * Aorus Radeon RX 570 4GB * Samsung 840 EVO 250GB SSD * SanDisk Ultra 3D 1TB SSD * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer PCI * Windows 10 Pro 21H2 64-bit
    • #189295

      I beg to disagree here — they weren’t pushed to 1803 they manually checked for updates.

      If you manually go to Microsoft update it will come down – this is what is called “seekers’.  Don’t seek you don’t get.

      Susan Bradley Patch Lady

      5 users thanked author for this post.
      • #189296

        On Windows 7 I can manually run Windows Update, and then see what is being offered. Is there a way to do that on W10?

        Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #189306

          wushowhide is the way to do that for Win10

          2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #189386

          But users shouldn’t have to jump through all these infernal hoops to keep the detestable WaaS from forcing updates and upgrades upon us, especially upgrades, and especially on Pro versions. A simple “Update/Upgrade Now” button to click on after checking to see what’s available would be the right way to go. Otherwise, I call “Malware.”

          3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #189310

          On my system, neither wushowhide nor update minitool found the update until I had manually run windows update and it appeared there. I was able to use mcbsys’s method on the “Patch Lady – 1803 is now officially available” thread to stop it and hide it once it appeared in windows update.

          2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #189317

          I found it via wushowhide ONLY WHEN the “feature update” deferred was set to zero and “semi-annual channel (targeted)” was set.  After I hid it, I set “feature update” deferred back to 365 and set “semi-annual channel”.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #189571

          Yes, because both tools can only handle legacy WUA
          with 1703, the new UUP handle the upgrades, and only Settings app can extablish it

          2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #189857

          the new UUP handle the upgrades, and only Settings app can extablish it

          So you’re saying that UUP bypasses the Group Policy settings? I recall that triggered one round of forced upgrades from 1703 to 1709. Now that we don’t have “defer” in the Settings app in 1803, what does that mean for future upgrades?

        • #189859

          No 🙂
          i’m saying that since 1709, UUP handle the upgrades and Cumulative updates
          legacy tools like WUMT or wushowhide can’t process them correctly, because the metadata is different and separate from Windows Update

          1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #189351

        You’re right, but we’ve never had that behavior before on “Day 1” of a new release.

        It’s true that we WERE warned that clicking on “Check updates” would install 1803. The warning appeared on the same day that 1803 was posted — April 30 — as half of a sentence in a Windows blog post.

        3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #189365

        Seriously though, shouldn’t I be able to check for available updates without having the latest UPGRADE crammed down my throat immediately? Should there not be an “Update/Upgrade Now” button to click BEFORE that happens? We all know why MS does it the “malware way”, and it’s not a good way to do business. In fact, on my computers I don’t even have to check for updates to get the latest upgrade crammed down my throat. I just have to turn on Windows Update Service without first changing my Internet connection to Metered. MS will more than likely fix that “bug” in their invidious WaaS before long. Come on now, if it quacks like a duck …

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        • #189381

          I agree completely – but you do have the ability to look without getting bitten. That’s what wushowhide is all about.

        • #189387

          That’s partly true, but please see my posts #189386 and #189365 above. Last month at least, I didn’t even have to check for updates to get 1709 rammed down my throat; I just had to turn Windows Update Service on without first setting my Wi-Fi connection to Metered, and away she went. I’ll bet cha it’s the same with 1804, uh, 1803. I call that Malware.

        • #189453

          You weren’t aware that Windows 10 feature updates are automatic every six months by default?

          Windows 10 Pro version 21H2 build 19044.1682 + Microsoft 365 (group ASAP)

        • #189469

          Of course. It’s the new WaaS way. However, it shouldn’t be forced on me when I have all the tools and settings in place to let WaaS know I’m not ready for it right now. People have many reasons for needing, or just wanting, to be able to update and upgrade their computers on their own schedules. Usability, quality, stability, and not having their computers hosed, bricked or broken are a few examples. That used to be the case, and it worked great.

          BTW, why are you so gung ho about MS using dishonesty, deceit, trickery, and just plain brute force to turn their users into beta testers and push their updates and upgrades onto users’ computers? How would it affect your user experience if “Check for Updates” meant check for updates instead of “Install all Available Updates and Upgrades”? How would it affect your user experience if updating and upgrading was a two-step process: 1) Check for Updates/Upgrades, and 2) Download and Install Updates/Upgrades?

          That’s all I’m advocating. Of course, it can “mostly” be done anyhow with the right tools and settings, but MS has proven that even the settings they provide don’t always work as advertised.

          2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #189390

          Though the Windows Update service gets turned on automatically now under conditions I haven’t yet identified. Even if WaaSMedic and a number of other obvious scheduled items are disabled.

          While mildly interesting, this distinction between clicking a button to check and waiting for an automatic check is for the birds. It’s plain and clear we’re not meant to retain control

          Edit: See? Even I still called it “check” when really it’s more than that”. The button DOES say “check for updates” instead of “install available updates now”. This sure smells like an outright attempt at deception, presumably to enlist more unpaid testers sooner.

          -Noel

          8 users thanked author for this post.
        • #189398

          Exactly, and that’s no way to run a railroad!

          1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #189450

          You’re given controls to defer it for up to 15 months if you’re a Pro.

          Windows 10 Pro version 21H2 build 19044.1682 + Microsoft 365 (group ASAP)

        • #189468

          And after all we’ve read about what’s happened to others, you BELIEVE those controls will work?

          Born every minute much?

          -Noel

          4 users thanked author for this post.
        • #189473

          You shouldn’t have to be a “Pro” to defer updates and upgrades as long as is needed to be confident that said updates and upgrades aren’t going to hose, brick or break your computer.

          2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #189564

          Trapdoor. The view from Windows 7 says Windows 10 is malware.

          On hiatus {with backup and coffee}
          offline▸ Win10Pro 2004.19041.572 x64 i3-3220 RAM8GB HDD Firefox83.0b3 WindowsDefender WuMgr
          offline▸ Win10Pro 20H2.19042.685 x86 Atom N270 RAM2GB HDD WindowsDefender WuMgr GuineaPigVariant
          online▸ Win11Pro 21H2.22000.675 x64 i5-9400 RAM16GB HDD Firefox101.0b6 MicrosoftDefender WuMgr
          3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #189557

        So, installing Office and clicking Check for updates is not the recommended way to patch Office? I mean, I just want to Patch, not Upgrade!

        This idiocy has to stop! How many work hours have to be lost to inconvenient upgrades and bad patches before  someone fixes this “It makes Windows safer” lie? Is it normal for people to be afraid to patch their machines?

        It began with GWX, it will die with Windows 10.zz?

        Windows Home is now Windows 10 Home Freeware edition (ad supported),

        Windows Pro is now Windows 10 Pro Plus (paid, with ads, more features),

        Windows Enterprise is the previously named Windows 7 Pro, paid, user respect added.

        The recipe for success is to make your users hate your products, abuse them and ignore their needs. Success guaranteed! /rant

        Martin

        6 users thanked author for this post.
    • #189316

      I have 3 occasional-use-only computers with Windows 10 Home installed on them: a 2 year old Dell laptop, an old Dell netbook I use for testing that currently runs Windows 10 and 3-5 flavours of Linux at any given time, an an old HP Stream 7 tablet.

      My laptop was built with Windows 10 factory installed and has been a candidate for immediate update with each new release since.
      I’m leaving that one on metered connection for as long as it works, and/or until 1803 is no longer avoidable.

      Out of curiosity, I took the other two off metered connection last night and checked for updates. Much to my surprise and amusement, 1803 was available to both devices(?) and I let them update accordingly.

      On the netbook, I was pleasantly surprised that Classic Shell reconfigured itself without crashing and seems to be working properly. On the other hand, my first pass through settings uncovered several privacy items that needed to be turned off again (location, camera, microphone and way more). Furthermore, my PDF and e-book default readers had been changed to Edge, and a handful of graphics format viewer defaults had been changed back to the Pictures app instead of Paint.NET. I have since restored them to my preferences, not Microsoft’s. I don’t really use Win10 for much on this machine, so I don’t know when I’ll get back to checking for other changes I didn’t get asked about or agree to, but I expect to find more.

      The Stream tablet won’t boot into Windows at all at this point. It keeps freezing on a screen that requires input from a physical keyboard to even attempt to continue, even though this is a touch tablet. I’m going to have to connect it to a USB hub with keyboard and mouse to see if I can get into Windows at all. Might even need an external recovery drive to roll this back, if that’s possible. Fortunately there’s nothing of value or importance on the tablet so I can take my time with it.

      Sorry for the super long post. Bottom line: no matter how smoothly 1803 installs when the time comes, be prepared to spend some time checking that it’s really set up to do things the way you want to do them.

      7 users thanked author for this post.
      • #189749

        Update: After several attempts to repair the 1803 install, I finally had to use a USB recovery image to roll my Stream 7 tablet back to 1709. Restored the metered connection setting, and don’t plan to attempt updating to 1803 again until it’s simply unavoidable. Hopefully that will be several months from now.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #189344

      If they are on SAC targeted, then the behavior is intended
      whether users got it auto or manually checking

      why we act like it’s a surprise with every release? 🙂

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      b
      • #189353

        Clicking “Check for updates” on Day 1 of a new version release has never brought down the update, has it?

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #189361

          Yes it does 🙂

          up until 1607 era, new versions (and refreshed ESD releases) always hit WU before MCT and WSUS

          before UUP was implemented, joining Windows Insider or changing Rings, the user would have to wait sometimes for a whole day before it get the preview build
          but with UUP, everything is instant

          that being said, version 1803 was delayed more than possible, maybe that’s the reason for opening doors for it all at once (WU, WSUS, MCT, VLSC)

          1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #189385

          … and I see where UUP was implemented in 1703.

          I don’t recall the “seeker” behavior in 1703 or 1709. Did I just miss it?

        • #189388

          Yes, the seeker behavior has been there before. I’ve been bit by it.

          That’s why I set defer quality updates = 0 in the GUI and in GP set Auto Updates = Enabled, 2 (notify download/install). That way Win10 does the search and I can see the updates in WU right off, but I have “Download” button and wushowhide between me and disaster.

          8 users thanked author for this post.
        • #189556

          Much appreciate this post :).

          ASUS PRIME Z270-K * Intel Core i7-6700 * 2 x 8 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2133 MHz * Aorus Radeon RX 570 4GB * Samsung 840 EVO 250GB SSD * SanDisk Ultra 3D 1TB SSD * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer PCI * Windows 10 Pro 21H2 64-bit
        • #189577

          @PKCano
          All good until the last word 🙂

          “Trash to some, treasure to others”

        • #189570

          I’m not very familiar with that behavior

          but Dual Scan was introduced “hidden” with 1607, and later fixed with cumulative update to control it with Group Policy

        • #189578

          Defer quality updates = 0 is to avoid Dual Scan.

        • #189376

          Back when I WANTED a new version of Windows 10, I never had any luck getting it by pressing the [Check for Updates] button. I always figured there were throttling mechanisms in play and I just never got lucky. I sought out .iso files and got my test systems going that way.

          Now, I’ve got all the “defer” settings on, and I certainly am NOT actively checking for updates(!!), since at this moment I’m actually using Win 10 to develop some features (pertaining to per-monitor v2 UI scaling in my Windows applications). I also have VMware snapshots saved, so there’s NO WAY Microsoft can unexpectedly take away my functional working environment by “accidentally” downloading the update.

          Lord knows I sure wouldn’t be very comfortable if I was having to actually rely – without easy recovery mechanisms backing me up – on Win 10 remaining stable all through the time I need it to be stable in order to accomplish real work. I’m sorry to have to break the news, Microsoft, but the smallest little thing in my schedule easily trumps the grandest in yours.

          -Noel

          8 users thanked author for this post.
        • #189461

          Sounds like you should have paid for LTSB if you’re making money from it.

          No Store apps would be right up your street.

          Windows 10 Pro version 21H2 build 19044.1682 + Microsoft 365 (group ASAP)

        • #189472

          No Store Apps would benefit everyone, not just me.

          -Noel

          3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #191697

          I had an experimental machine running 1703 (I think) which I wanted to upgrade, experimentally but intentionally, to 1709.  Absolutely no luck.  The upgrade was listed in WUMT as a ludicrous download size (think 192GB) and sat at 0% for ever (that would hardly be a surprise, if the total size was as stated).  But examining the network traffic, there was absolutely nothing going on.

          That experimental Win10 machine has now become my experimental Linux machine (Mint 18.3 with Cinnamon and with added Wine).  I am much happier.  Win10 will not see me again.

          HMcF

        • #191928

          That’s the sum of all UUP files for all languages, it’s not wrong

          WUMT cannot handle or initiate UUP upgrade, only Settings

        • #191955

          Thank you for that clarification, I had completely missed the fact that there would be many languages involved.  I apologise for taking up your time.

          HMcF

        • #189380

          Expecting consistency from Ms?

          We aim at Surprises!

          2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #189362

      To be fair, the warning only said that checking for updates would make this one available. I guess it’s a core feature of Windows 10 that once something is made available it’s automatically installed, but that really shouldn’t be the case. You should be able to check for updates and then decide what you want to do about any that are made available – which is how the blog post made it sound.

      5 users thanked author for this post.
      • #189371

        Right on, @Self … You nailed it!

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #189369

        Windows 10 periodically checks for updates so you don’t have to. When an update is available, it’s automatically downloaded and installed, keeping your device up to date with the latest features.

        To check for updates now, select the Start button, and then go to Settings > Update & security > Windows Update, and select Check for updates. If Windows Update says your device is up to date, you have all the updates that are currently available.

        https://support.microsoft.com/en-my/help/4027667/windows-update-windows-10

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #189395

        To be fair, the warning only said that checking for updates would make this one available.

        It didn’t:

        On the Settings page, navigate to Update & security > Windows Update.
        Once there, simply click “Check for updates” to begin the download and installation process.

        How to get the Windows 10 April 2018 Update

        Windows 10 Pro version 21H2 build 19044.1682 + Microsoft 365 (group ASAP)

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #189438

          Fair enough!

        • #189474

          Right. Just like we expect “check the price” to be a committment to buy.

          Only a devious person trying to manipulate unsuspecting persons could possibly think that misleading people who do “check” into “commitment” is proper.

          Remind me who was debating whether Windows acts like malware in this very thread…

          -Noel

          3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #189493

          Some things are self-evident. 🙂

        • #189582

          Noel, I don’t know if your comment was in response to my “Fair enough”, but just to clarify – I was referring to the correction to my earlier comment as it seems the blog post did say that checking for updates would lead to download and installation. My being corrected was fair enough, not the tactics of Microsoft.

          I’m certainly not saying that such action is “fair enough”, and it’s but one of the reasons I really don’t want to go anywhere near Windows 10 if I don’t have to!

          2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #189652

          Remind me who was debating whether Windows acts like malware in this very thread…

          It started with GWX, which infamously gave people a choice between “Upgrade now” and “upgrade later,” with “upgrade later” being in the lower right corner of the dialog, right where one would expect “Cancel” to be in the Windows world.

          By the time someone ran into that GWX malware, they’d undoubtedly already seen dozens of examples of pop-ups from web sites that want you to subscribe to their newsletter or some such thing, with “Yes! Sign me up!” and “Maybe later” as the only choices.  These Windows users had surely learned that “Maybe later” did, in fact, mean “cancel,” with the caveat that dismissing the offer now doesn’t in any way suggest you won’t be prompted again in the future (which is why the web authors used that wording instead of “Cancel”).

          So these people now encounter the same in GWX, and understandably conclude that “upgrade later” must mean the same as “maybe later” in those web site dialogs, which is to say that it was the same as “Cancel.”  If it didn’t mean that, surely, the GWX dialog would have an actual button marked “Cancel,” as is the convention with MS, right?

          In this case, though, “Upgrade later” didn’t mean “stop bothering me now and ask again later.” It meant “Wait an indeterminate period of time, and then begin the upgrade process with no further consent from me.”

          That kind of thing is why GWX crossed the line from adware (which should still never have been delivered via the formerly trusted Windows Update system) to malware.  It uses a dark pattern to trick people into thinking they’re dismissing the offer for now, with a distinct possibility that the same offer would be uh, offered again later.

          The idea that “upgrade later” would mean what it actually did mean rather than “I reject the offer for now, but you can ask me again later” is just so far beyond good faith that there’s no possible way MS can mean this in anything other than a malicious way.  They knew exactly what they were doing, and no doubt planned for hiding behind the literal interpretation (“Well, you did say upgrade later, and that’s all we did!”) when they clearly knew what they were doing was sneaky and deceptive.

          This latest incident just proves that Microsoft is still being just as sneaky and deceptive as they were during the GWX days.  What’s this I keep hearing about a new Microsoft that’s nicer and kinder than the old one?  At least the old one was harsh to its competitors… the new one is harsh to its own customers!

           

          Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, Kubuntu 22.04
          Dell G3 15/3579, i7-8750H/16GB, Kubuntu 22.04

          7 users thanked author for this post.
        • #189659

          Microsoft’s deceptive red [X] like exit/ close button that started the W10 upgrade instead of exiting/ closing the dialogue box.
          Screenshot below..

          Win10upgrade

          "-rw-rw-rw-" extreme computing
          5 users thanked author for this post.
        • #189807

          Windows 10 periodically checks for updates so you don’t have to. When an update is available, it’s automatically downloaded and installed, keeping your device up to date with the latest features.

          M$ should have only enforced this policy if her updates are proven to be 99.99% without any Stop-Error or BSOD.

          To be fair, especially to computer novices, M$ should revert this policy, eg after nearly 3 years of Win 10, some Win 10 users have become fearful (= FUD) of M$’s forced auto-updates.

          2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #189837

          This may be the main reason Win 10 has dropped a bit and Win 7 has risen a bit in Netmarketshare’s latest April 2018 numbers.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #189363

      I got the 1803 yesterday; it took 2 hrs to download and install and another 30m to adjust- change privacy definitions etc. however the ‘killer’ for me is that windows photo viewer no longer works on 1803- it worked on all previous versions. I use this utility a lot – simply to view photos . it is the quickest and lightest I know. therefore I rolled back to 1709.

      does anyone has a suggestion re: windows photo viewer utility?

      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #189368

        Irfan View is a non-Microsoft free for personal use application that I’ve found very handy over the years for associating with virtually every kind of image file. It opens a fair number of video file types too.

        irfanview.com

        -Noel

        5 users thanked author for this post.
        • #189375

          I’ll second that.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #189382

          And FastStone Image Viewer.

          Always been my favorite, not least for it’s renaming capabilities…

          But for reading geodata files, Irfanview rocks! 😀

          1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #189389

        I guess that MS really really wants you to use their bloated photo program!!

        I’ve been using Windows photo viewer for ages, thanks for the “Heads-up” on the removal.

        Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does 🙂
        All W10 Pro at 21H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #189429

          Hmmm, I can’t find Windows Photo Viewer listed anywhere in apps that have been removed.

          I am holding off of 1803 for awhile if possible and have been looking at the “Deprecation” list and I saw XPS viewer removal but nothing about WPV.

          Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does 🙂
          All W10 Pro at 21H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).

        • #189437

          Windows Photo Viewer has never been part of a clean install of Windows 10:

          https://binged.it/2HJyRzW

          Windows 10 Pro version 21H2 build 19044.1682 + Microsoft 365 (group ASAP)

        • #189458

          So I gather from your post that Windows Photo Viewer just stayed previously because of the original W7 to W10 upgrade? If so, then it’s odd that it wouldn’t stay through the 1803 upgrade.

          Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does 🙂
          All W10 Pro at 21H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).

        • #189475

          Microsoft has already proven that they’re willing to delete our files. I guess that extends to “Apps” now too. How nice.

          Look at what happens to Windows.old a few days after an installation.

          -Noel

        • #189479

          They’d have to beat you to it to delete any of your “Apps”.

          You’d be the first to complain if they left 30GB of Windows.old trash lying around permanently.

          Windows 10 Pro version 21H2 build 19044.1682 + Microsoft 365 (group ASAP)

        • #189572

          Windows Photo Viewer was never removed from Windows 10, they only removed the capability to use it normally

          you can restore that capability easily with registry file, but it recuire some “high” permissions

          you may use this from me 🙂
          https://drop.me/oXKOxE

          just run the script as admin, then restart File Explorer
          you will find Photo Viewer available in Default Programs

          6 users thanked author for this post.
      • #189377

        @ anonymous #189353

        Seems, the 1803 upgrade breaks a lot of 3rd-party apps/programs, ie their developers need to also upgrade the apps/programs to be compatible with Win 10 Version 1803. (source; answersdotmicrosoft)

        No wonder the Classis Shell developer gave up on developing his app/program for Win 10.

        Is this a move by M$ to force 3rd-party app/program developers to the M$ Store.?

      • #189449

        I hope someone figures out how to get it back.

      • #189455

        Picasa, a google product, for finding, viewing, arranging, editing, etc. Great little program.

        Discontinued by google but works fine still.

    • #189408

      Can you define warning?

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #189418

        My Cambridge Dictionary says it’s “something that makes you understand there is a possible danger or problem, especially one in the future.”

        The blog said, “On the Settings page, navigate to Update & security > Windows Update. Once there, simply click “Check for updates” to begin the download and installation process.”

        Looks like a warning alright, but since the “warning” was posted, probably, after, or certainly not long before, MS had already started forcing the upgrade on unsuspecting average users who thought that “Check for Updates” actually meant what it says, instead of “Install All Available Updates and Upgrades,” and since VERY few, if any, average users actually read that blog post at all, the “warning” falls a little short of the target.

        Come on, ya’ll … we all know WaaS has turned Windows updates and upgrades into Malware, pure and simple. In fact, Windows 10 itself qualifies as Malware, and we all know why.

        3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #189422

          Also using the long label ‘download and install process’ suggests a multiple step process that can be held at intervening points without a rude halt in the middle.

          If the button’s function is to launch an unstoppable single action that ends in full installation; then label that button ‘INSTALL NOW’. We already know that will require a download first.

          The purpose of the extra language is to confuse for the benefit of Microsoft.

          3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #189427

          Hear! Hear! @Cascadian

          2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #189428

          How does Microsoft benefit?

          Windows 10 Pro version 21H2 build 19044.1682 + Microsoft 365 (group ASAP)

        • #189440

          I believe the label ‘unpaid beta tester’ is fairly well known without the need to look very far. If you retire or reassign your entire QA to save money in exorbitant personnel costs of salary, health care, fringe benefits, and retirement, then recover the lost labor through the use of unpaid beta testers; I would label that as a benefit to the corporation’s bottom line. Just thinking within the box a little.

          added by edit:
          Shame on me for again falling for your diversion from the main point of how to label a button. You have good debate skills in moving focus around.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #189445

          They have volunteer Insiders for that. It wasn’t them who clicked “Check for updates” at 1pm EDT yesterday, 8 days before patch Tuesday, and were shocked and dismayed to get . . . . . an update.

          Who exactly do we think was “fooled” by this? People who were going to get it automatically next week anyway?

          Windows 10 Pro version 21H2 build 19044.1682 + Microsoft 365 (group ASAP)

        • #189456

          The bottom line is the language used by MS is deceptive. If it walks like a duck …

        • #189471

          Focus shifting again. You asked, cui bono? I answered with a possible, and frequently discussed scenario where Microsoft benefits in cold hard dollars, aside from the collected data and control. Yet you then trot off into yet another tangent. Anonymous called you on it. That is sufficient.

          2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #189478

          The tangent we trotted off into was provided by you. I was trying to refocus on what we think the real issue is here, beyond yet another Evil Microsoft Conspiracy Theory.

          It would be nice if Woody could provide some of his “confirmed reports from all over”. Perhaps we could ask them why they did it (if they truly didn’t want 1803).

          Windows 10 Pro version 21H2 build 19044.1682 + Microsoft 365 (group ASAP)

        • #189480

          Nope. Not going to let you redefine history and move the goalpost all in one reply.

          I commented that a deliberate misuse of common language creates benefit for Microsoft. You ignored common knowledge and asked for a specific benefit to Microsoft. I answered one in detail, and alluded to two more. Then you shifted to blaming the hapless user/owner for doing something they should have known better than to do. I think that one also qualifies as victim shaming. You are really racking up a tally here.

          3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #190232

          They have volunteer Insiders for that.

          Like my 80-year-old father-in-law, whose computer was bricked by an unauthorized upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10. I had installed GWX Control Panel on his computer and set it specifically to deny any Windows 10 upgrades. Microsoft was well aware of the controversy surrounding their unauthorized upgrades to Windows 10, and they were well aware of GWX Control Panel and other such programs. But they arrogantly disregarded this with my father-in-law and bricked his computer in the process.

          It would be nice if Woody could provide some of his “confirmed reports from all over”.

          Woody very often provides confirmed reports. I’m not sure how you have missed this, because you have been on AskWoody for a very long time.

          Group "L" (Linux Mint)
          with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
          3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #190286

          Like my 80-year-old father-in-law, whose computer was bricked by an unauthorized upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10. I had installed GWX Control Panel on his computer and set it specifically to deny any Windows 10 upgrades. Microsoft was well aware of the controversy surrounding their unauthorized upgrades to Windows 10, and they were well aware of GWX Control Panel and other such programs. But they arrogantly disregarded this with my father-in-law and bricked his computer in the process.

          When did the brick occur? There are reports that GWX is currently offered on Windows 7 machines that have blockers suggesting that upgrade is an ongoing maneuver.

          On hiatus {with backup and coffee}
          offline▸ Win10Pro 2004.19041.572 x64 i3-3220 RAM8GB HDD Firefox83.0b3 WindowsDefender WuMgr
          offline▸ Win10Pro 20H2.19042.685 x86 Atom N270 RAM2GB HDD WindowsDefender WuMgr GuineaPigVariant
          online▸ Win11Pro 21H2.22000.675 x64 i5-9400 RAM16GB HDD Firefox101.0b6 MicrosoftDefender WuMgr
        • #189563

          They have volunteer Insiders for that.

          “after about 4 months, we will announce broad deployment readiness, indicating that Microsoft, independent software vendors (ISVs), partners, and customers believe that the release is ready for broad deployment”

          https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/deployment/update/waas-overview

          Name it as you want, but it looks like beta testing for me.

          ASUS PRIME Z270-K * Intel Core i7-6700 * 2 x 8 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2133 MHz * Aorus Radeon RX 570 4GB * Samsung 840 EVO 250GB SSD * SanDisk Ultra 3D 1TB SSD * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer PCI * Windows 10 Pro 21H2 64-bit
          4 users thanked author for this post.
        • #189426

          As you have a dictionary, please look up the definition of “malicious”.

          Windows 10 Pro version 21H2 build 19044.1682 + Microsoft 365 (group ASAP)

        • #189430

          I already know what “malicious” means. What’s your point?

        • #189434

          I’m surprised you had to look up “warning” then.

          Please explain how Windows Updates or Windows 10 are malicious (since you refer to both as “malware”).

          Windows 10 Pro version 21H2 build 19044.1682 + Microsoft 365 (group ASAP)

        • #189490

          Oh, Lordy, this has really devolved into the ridiculous now. Nonetheless, this will be my last post to you on this topic. I’m surprised the moderators haven’t pulled the plug already.

          OK, “Intended to cause damage to a computer system, or to steal private information from a computer system.” That’s malicious and describes exactly what MS is doing with WaaS, forcing their users to be unpaid beta testers by intentionally forcing updates and upgrades onto their computers that all to often brick, break or hose perfectly tuned machines.

          Furthermore, you may not realize it, but MS knows more about you, your computer and your computing habits than your mama does. They call it telemetry and no matter how much you twist and tweak, they collect a ton of it.

          “Computer software that is designed to damage the way a computer works.” That’s malware and that’s all too often the result of what WaaS is doing. Notice that “intentional” has no bearing on whether or not a piece of software can be considered malware, only that using it results in damages to the way a computer works.

        • #190220

          “designed to” means intentional.

          Windows 10 Pro version 21H2 build 19044.1682 + Microsoft 365 (group ASAP)

    • #189417
    • #189528

      To me, I will just say how things should work, not how they comply with some blog post that no user should have to read to enjoy adequate OS behavior.

      First, I am on 1703, now fully patched after being unwillingly unpatched later than December right after installing 1703 in April right after end of support for 1607. Maybe the fact I changed my GP policies helped to see the patches after no patches for 8 days. It is like I got upgraded from a fully patched 1607 to a not patched after December 1703 and Windows update saying I was up to date when I clearly was not. Playing with the deferral GPs didn’t change the UI of settings until the next day. Then Windows update got in a panic and said I really needed to install patches right now to be safe. Odd behavior, like you can set anything in GP and it will only be updated once a day or something in the settings panel where Windows update is. Yes, I did restart and used gpupdate /force to no avail. Anyway, my hypothesis is that somehow after a feature update I got an automatic deferral of quality updates for 35 days although I had mine set on 5 days on 1607 just to have some time to react if anything really bad came up here. But…

      I use check for updates to check if I am fully patched, not to download a new OS crippled with new bugs and things removed that I liked, things forced that I don’t like and new things to check because I am sure I won’t like some defaults where they guessed I wanted to share my intimate life with them. Sounds, legitimate, eh? It should tell me if I am fully patched or not.  Granted, I didn’t get offered 1803 because they didn’t forget to honor the GPs since I waited so long to install 1703 they had time to fix that “mistake”. Maybe it is a good reason to always run the oldest supported release or at least not jump on the latest one and maybe skip the ugly ones. No windows photo viewer and forced web searches? I would love people to skip this one to send a clear message, but I am not idealistic to the point of believing it can happen or will change anything.

      Ok, so my point is you should be able to legitimately verify if you are patched without gettting forcefed the latest upgrade. It seems to work with the GPs on Pro. Good for me.

      Here is my suggestion to you MS on how things should be on all versions, not just Pro. And I don’t care that you write it here and there on a blog or in the settings, I want good behavior, not coherence with your bad message.

      So here it is:

      Distinguish between new OS installs called feature updates, new feature updates called quality updates and security only updates and first find better names for that confusing mess.

      Then offer three layers of automatic updating: all, quality and security, security only.

      Then always offer the choices for each layer, like before: check only, download only, download and install.

      Then allow people to defer for a reasonable time each tier automatically or through not clicking install on an individual update if you have the not install automatically policy in effect and respect this deferral policy (as in UI policy, not group policy, so even Home users can choose) or one time wish. Then forcefeed the updates according to said maximal schedule when maximal authorized deferral time is attained. Then, yes at some point nobody will be left behind and you will have it your way, but at least the people who want to legitimately want the dust to settle a bit for novelties they don’t want won’t have to go to so many means to cripple your wonderfully self-healing update mechanism. You will have your cake and eat it then. But users who don’t know a thing about computer and who leaves default settings will still suffer your beta testing creations and might end up having an unbootable computer anyway. At least, you would have better support from power users. As for the others, I just hope they get away from your ugly OS and buy a Chromebook, a Mac or an Ipad.  You don’t deserve their business.

      As for me I would defer to the maximum amount of time permitted the OS installs and the quality updates. As reliability and not bothering my business is my priority, I am sure I would have less trouble only having security updates almost right away (I would defer 5 days) and the rest later when more tested. Oh and if a security update was causing issue, I would just use the ability you would provide to easily see and uninstall each update when maximal delay hasn’t been reached. Then, I would do like you asked, trust you on managing updates, because if it didn’t work, you would let me uninstall the patch until you fix it, right? And you would fix it before maximal time you allow to not have the patch is reached, right? And also you would describe patches better so if I suspect a patch broke something, I could easily see it did by looking at the description maybe and then just uninstall this one temporarily?

      Wow, that would be working together wouldn’t it?

      It would be like a mix of group B and A, the cumulative rollups being forced after a reasonable amount of time, but the latest patches being served à la B, so you can keep one security update but not the other patch that breaks your system. But you would still have nobody not patched to a common denominator after a set time. Sounds less hard to manage that Windows 7 and its ultimate pick and choose of the earlier years, an acceptable compromise for the sanity of everyone?

      And by the way, when will you get it that home users don’t test Windows the same way business users use their computer and you can’t skip testing better if you want to follow a moronic WaaS model and not anger business customers in addition to the home customers? Not that the latest are less important although they might not be to you.

      And Christmas in July or September, I will ask again until I get it, an off switch to telemetry. If I don’t want it, too bad for me, ok? Also, no more forcing of data collection and use of your BingCortEge. Let me choose or else you will anger me and make me want to leave.

       

      4 users thanked author for this post.
    • #189864

      Dell Precision 3630 w/32 GB RAM, 500 GB (C:), 1 TB (D:)
      Window 10 Pro x64
      Internet: FTTC (Fibre to the Kerb)

      5 users thanked author for this post.
    • #189924

      Now that we don’t have “defer” in the Settings app in 1803,

      We do.

      Windows 10 Pro version 21H2 build 19044.1682 + Microsoft 365 (group ASAP)

    • #189989

      I come to desktop support after a career in manufacturing as a semiconductor process engineer. I fail to understand why typical six sigma QA do not apply to Microsoft. My first patch recovery Wednesday involved a defect rate by MS patches at 3/25. I now know how to pause for 30 days as I await a new instance of WSUS. All of this discussion can be prevented by an authentic QA process.

      Would you accept a defect rate of 3/25 for pace makers, condoms, HIV test, etc? I think not. Yet, this insanely flawed process is a true national security issue. The standard for patch Tuesday is orders of magnitude greater than consumer goods. Death and destruction will strike on a massive scale eventually without a proper six sigma process control at MS patching and features.

      If any process deserves six sigma, it is this one. Would you install brake pads on your family vehicle if the instructions stated the need to verify the quality of the product prior to installing? I think no one would purchase such brake pads. Is the burden of proving quality on the surgeons implanting a pace maker? It is time to educate Congress and force this insanity to end now.

      Kurt

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #191196

      I did not click on windows updates and when I can in this morning my computer was updating to 1803.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #191257

        Happened to me three times with 1709. You can’t trust Microsoft any more. They’ve become nothing short of malware with their new-found WaaS baby. Until someone with a lot more knowledge than I comes up with a better way, as far as I know, the only way to keep the forced updates and upgrades at bay is to never let the Windows Update Service run on a non-metered Internet connection. Although not the “appropriate” way to do it, (I’m sure MS will eventually “fix” this “bug”) as long as MS keeps honoring the Metered Connection setting, it will work right now, though.

    • #191679

      I pushed the “check for updates” button to see what would happen. Yes, I got 1803 installed. Then I wanted to see what would happen if I rolled back to 1709, which seemed to work fine. The one problem I see is that after rolling back to 1709, Windows Update is automatically trying to install 1803 again. Is there a way to stop this behavior?

    • #192438

      It looks like they have jumped the gun and pushed 1803 to the Semi-Annual channel 4 months early?  My understanding is that it should have been released to the Semi-Annual (Targeted) channel on the 8th May and that the Semi-Annual channel should follow 4 months later!??

      https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/itpro/windows-10/release-information

      • #192460

        Yes, but the rumor is that Microsoft got it backwards in that table because they’re as confused about their channel naming as everyone else (or perhaps even more so):

        Patch Lady – Semi annual naming is still confusing

        In practice, it would appear that so far 1803 is being pushed to Semi-Annual Channel (Targeted) but not Semi-Annual Channel.

        (If there was a proper feedback mechanism we’d be able to tell them that they’ve screwed up the documentation yet again.)

        Windows 10 Pro version 21H2 build 19044.1682 + Microsoft 365 (group ASAP)

    • #193803

      My parents got in troubles as the Windows asked them to perform an update and my parents trusted the Microsoft advice which ended (yesterday, 22nd May ´18) in firstly several hours not usable computer as installing updates and in the end in totally unuseful computer,  only running wheel on black screen.
      That means either my parents should pay some IT person to care about the PC now, which will cost them money and they will not have their computer available for days or I will have to go there and spend my time solving this.
      Thank you Microsoft!

    • #194580

      My HP Pavillion laptop is now inoperable due to this update. System wouldn’t start up at all. Could access BIOS but none of the functions would work.

      Now need to find money to replace an essential machine. Doubt Microsoft will pay for that.

      • #194604

        I know this is not helpful for you now anonymous, coming after the fact the way it does. But your hardware is not unusable.

        On 31DEC2017 Woody made a full topic announcement suggesting to everyone the utility of an end of year image for all systems. I have no idea if he recognized the foresight involved or the number of headaches he may have prevented. Probably he was only giving common advice from years of experience. Then Microsoft happened.

        Since then, I believe every Computerworld article on updating has included the advice to make an image and or refresh all backups before beginning the update process. This is to prepare the way for a possible, not inevitable, recovery situation.

        There are ways to get a clean installation onto your hardware. Ask if you would like guidance.

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