• Massive batch of optional non-security Windows patches precede October changes

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    Say goodbye to the “Get Windows 10” campaign – and hello to the nascent new Win 7 / 8.1 patching method. And get a preview of the post-October patchop
    [See the full post at: Massive batch of optional non-security Windows patches precede October changes]

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    • #34113

      Ugh… it is a hot mess and the shape of things to come i fear. I don’t know where to start with that lot, all but the time zone change are optional and unchecked so i’ll be happy keeping them there i think. KB3184143 might be useful for those infected with the gwx malware i suppose but since i only have KB3146449 installed (included in one of the IE cumulative updates) and nobody has any real evidence of how it’s triggered why bother. Meh.

    • #34114

      It surely validates my point that Ms lost control of windows development.

      The only way to force them to regain control is some sort of revolution — say, all users setting up Wu to never. I wont hold my breath and frankly all that tolerate this whether A or B should stop complaining its useless

    • #34115

      I just noticed that KB3185278/KB3185279 rollups CBS name is Package_for_RollupFix (the name shown with Dism tool)
      i.e. for win7 x86:

      which is the same scheme used in Win10 cumulative updates to ensure old ones get superseded and removed automatically

      so this officially makes September rollups the first Monthly Rollup Preview Update

    • #34116

      Oh boy, here we go again!! A massive batch? can’t wait to see what’s in there.

      Was looking at one machine at work today; those usually receive all updates, whatever they are, minus the drivers. A whopping 659 updates were applied since SP1 + Office 2007 + .NET.

      No wonder its a mess!!

      To say they could have fixed it all with one “real” Service Pack. What was stopping MS from saying: “here’s an SP for windows 7. However it DOES NOT mean that it extends support 5 more years”. Even though they traditionally suported SP’s for 5 years, what’s stopping them from breaking with tradition?

      Aw, its too simple!

    • #34117

      Oh, it’s not really that bad. I went ahead and installed KB3182203, KB3181988, KV3184143, and the rollup KB3185278. I wanted the rollup mainly because they said it did some cleanup for Windows Update. It all went smoothly and fairly quickly for me. After rebooting, I went ahead and did a Disk Cleanup on the C drive, and made sure to click on the “Clean up system files” button. Rebooted again, and did a defrag on C for good measure. Everything appears to be in good order.

    • #34118

      No, they dont want u 2 stick w w7 so y should they make it easier?

    • #34119

      I think this out of cycle release is a preview for October 2016, like we had in the past with some of the Optional updates, promoted later to Important or Recommended.

    • #34120

      Update for Windows 8.1 (KB3182203) is being offered on my Vista box.

    • #34121

      You may remove some of the Windows Updates and SP1, if it was installed separately, using Disk Cleanup.
      For Office, the only way that I know of cleaning up is to completely uninstall the product and reinstall while patching with only what comes up at the current time. It is the same with .NET Framework 4.
      .NET Framework 3.5.1 is part of Windows 7 and follows the rules for CBS.

    • #34122

      @SamH Good to know and thank you for posting the results. And the procedure followed afterwards is what everyone should do at least now and then to make sure everything is in working order.
      I suppose most other users will want to wait at least few more days for the dust to settle.

    • #34123

      I’m intrigued by that disk cleanup update if it does manage to do some housekeeping on windows update but my trust in microsoft is eroded to the point that i’m not going near it yet. It’s way too early to be installing anything.

    • #34124

      See https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3182203
      which says it applies to Vista

    • #34125

      KB3184143 :

      This update “replaces” the following previously-released software…….

      Just remove those updates? Or does it replace them with some other things? If so what?

      Sounds interesting…..

      Since I do not have ANY of those updates installed on any of my computers, I have no need for this thing and will hide it immediately.

      KB3185278 with the supposedly improved Disk Cleanup Tool sounds like something useful, but I will at least wait several weeks to see if there are any problems. Microsoft apparently no longer tests its updates sufficiently and I certainly do not intend to act as Microsoft’s tester.

      Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst.

    • #34126

      Disk Cleanup update for Windows 7 is from 2013.

    • #34127

      “Microsoft apparently no longer tests its updates sufficiently and I certainly do not intend to act as Microsoft’s tester.”

      That’s likely a valid point.

    • #34128

      Ohhh that old thing? But i have that feature in disk cleanup already, as i suspect most people have. So what on earth is different this time?

    • #34129

      @James Bond 007… “waiting several weeks” should have a deadline of 10/3 if I’ve interpreted that “3rd Tuesday Preview” thing properly.

      Everything available for Preview on the 3rd Tuesday (yesterday) will be included in the “Rollups” for the following month’s two patch Tuesdays.

      In other words (if I’m understanding the new WU routine correctly) everything in the list that was released on 9/20 will be removed and not available individually. The cutoff dates would be 10/3 for the non-security patches and 10/10 for the security patches.

      Am I thinking on the right track here Woody or am I out there somewhere in the Ozone… again?

    • #34130

      I’d suggest upgrading from 2007 as soon as possible. I wouldn’t put it past microsoft to break it in the next 6 months.

    • #34131


      on another note:

      I’ve been prepping a VM of Win7 for my MDT deployment, and had no issues with the following:

      Installed windows from the HP Win7 SP1 x64 media.

      -change to “never check for updates”
      -manually install:
      –3020369 (will scan for updates for a very, very long time before allowing you to install it. Took my VM 2.5 days)
      –3112343 (requires reboot) (required by Kaseya and other software for proper patch scanning, otherwise it’ll just show as no patches needed)
      –3172605 (requires reboot)

      -manually scan for updates
      -only check the following:
      –3102433 (.net 4.6.1)
      –976932 (Win7 SP1 finalization – always hits my machines for about 9mb even though it’s already on the ISO. Maybe some sort of fix to it?)
      –890830 (malicious software removal tool)
      (installing these first seems to remove a few other patches from availability, mainly old dotnet 4 stuff and ie8 patches, and makes other ones available to install)
      -reboot as required

      -manually scan for updates
      -install all updates that are checked by default after this (225 out of 227 today for me)

    • #34132

      Are you aware of the fact that Windows Signature pcs by Lenovo are locked down to not run linux?


    • #34133

      I didn’t realize that….

    • #34134

      I think you’re right – but we won’t know for sure until the hammer falls.

    • #34135

      Hey, the pay is good, and they listen to your comments, eh?

    • #34136

      It seems to be only effects one model, and it might be BS, but it is worth keeping tabs on.

    • #34137

      Hmm, got a bunch of patches today and HID them all (Group B). Awaiting the Defcon Level indicator.

    • #34138

      Congratulations Lenovo/IBM!
      I certainly won’t be buying ANY of their locked hardware in future and will be advising clients the same.

    • #34139

      I have found that my Samsung laptop is locked down. The boot section of the UEFI setup only lists “Windows Boot Manager” and no other devices.
      It has a Phoenix Secure BIOS. The computer is three years old. The design is four years old, coming out in 2012 with Windows 7, but Samsung changed the OS to Windows 8 when it came out and that is how I purchased it.

      I will have to purchase a Linux computer.

    • #34140


      BTW, Servicing Stack Update KB3177467 is an exclusive update
      meaning it must be installed alone on live system, and there must be no pending servicing operation, otherwise you can’t install any updates until you reboot

      i believe they made this change to overcome the issue that KB3020369 had when it installed along with other pending updates, which caused the reboot stuck

    • #34141


      I do not have the “Windows Update Cleanup” option in Disk Cleanup. I have tried to install it using your link. It still is not there. Is it really necessary or helpful? How would I get it onto my system? I’m running Windows 7 X64 SP1.

      Thanks, in advance, for the help.


    • #34142

      Yup, that link pops right up top when I search again; the link I found dates to 2 days ago.

    • #34143

      Good info.

    • #34144

      I do the same thing. After installing updates, I clean up system files, did a defragment, then cleaned up shadow copies and such and wala-normal and good. 🙂

      I got ccleaner, advanced systemcare too I use 🙂 I do it almost everytime after installing.

    • #34145

      Microsoft has been doing the same thing for a long time.

      On the 3rd Tuesday, the following month’s patches show up as unchecked optionals. They stay in the optional list, unchecked, until the day (Mon) before the following patch Tuesday. They are not meant to be installed by WU or the average User (since they are not checked and not in the important list). MS will call them “previews” starting in Oct. They have been there for testing and those brave souls that think they have to have everything “right now.”

      On the Mon before patch Tues, the unchecked optionals (“previews”) disappear from the optional list. They reappear on patch Tues as checked important or recommended in the important update list when MS releases the patch Tues updates (around noon Central Time).

      Hasn’t MS said there will be a monthly rollup and other things will have separate updates (like .NET, IE, Flash, Office, etc)? So we should expect a number of patches in the “preview” stage and they should show up in WU checked in the important list on the 2nd Tues.

      Those of us who adhere to Woody’s DEFCON will wait even longer to install the updates once they hit the checked important list. We do NOT INSTALL the unchecked optional patches before they are released on patch Tues (unless we are testing on a non-production machine or are just overly gung-ho).

      Or am I reading this wrong?

    • #34146

      I am a little confused here. Is this discussion of 2007 for Win 7 and 8?

      I have win 10 OS, but am using MS Office 2007. Are you and ch100 saying MS is going to be doing something to the functionality of MS Office 2007 for any OS one is using?

      If that is the case, one should upgrade to MS office 2010 or higher?

      Mike H what do you mean y breaking it in the next 6 months?

      Not having Win 7 any longer (and not by choice) I have not been following the latest turmoil MS is causing for 7 and 8.


    • #34147

      Thank “Warning” for the warning. Shared your link on DistroWatch.com at posts #89 & #90. Be interesting to see what traction it gets there.

      Also shared this link:

      https://imgur.com/a/7s777 which is an image of a forum post allegedly deleted later by Lenovo, which states, in part:

      “This system has a Signature Edition of Windows 10 home installed. It is locked per our agreement with Microsoft”

      The link for the imgur image came from the Lenovo forum discussion. Message #178 page 18 by DaemonFC.

    • #34148

      I checked off the updates for windows 7 last night. It was a very slow process and my laptop is still trying to install the update. Is healthcare.gov now working for Microsoft?

    • #34149

      The option only shown if there are superseded updates that needs to be removed

      you could see (and set) all Disk Cleanup options by running this command line:
      cleanmgr /sageset:1

    • #34150

      I saw KB3171467 under the MS description page. That patch did not show up in the optionals when I searched. Wonder why?

    • #34151

      If InfoWorld gets my furshlinger article posted, I have a couple of tiny observations.

    • #34152

      I think MS said there would be a Windows monthly rollup and other tings would have individual patches. Like Windows security and non-security Monthly Rollup, .NET update, IE update (at least at first), Office updates, Flash update, etc.

      I don’t think they said ALL of that stuff would be in one patch.

      Or am I reading that wrong?

    • #34153

      “976932 (Win7 SP1 finalization – always hits my machines for about 9mb even though it’s already on the ISO. Maybe some sort of fix to it?)”

      This is KB2533552 – try to install it manually before KB3020369

      It is only cosmetic as it is bit by bit superseded by KB3020369, but like your Kaseya patch, Windows Update is looking for it. I knew about the supersedence and being not consistent, but Abbodi provided the fine details at the included file level and it was confirmed by me.

      “–3020369 (will scan for updates for a very, very long time before allowing you to install it. Took my VM 2.5 days)”

      This is annoying. Woody and other posters claim success by turning the service off or even pulling the cable from the internet. I don’t know, as I don’t experience those issues with the setting on Never check. It seems that the updater is looking for some certificates and if it can’t find them, it waits until it times out. You must be very patient to allow it to complete in 2.5 days, even if it is obvious to me that you leave it running in the background.

      Try the Windows Update Minitool about which I posted in another thread and select to include superseded updates. There is a lot to learn and understand from using that tool.
      Here seems to be the “original” site in English http://www.wilderssecurity.com/threads/windows-update-minitool.380535/

    • #34154

      Who says is different? SamH posted what he/she used, did not say it is new.

    • #34155

      @David It is exactly as abbodi86 posted.

    • #34156

      You are right, this happened many times in the past and it is likely to continue. Some patches which do not pass even disappear for a while, only to come back in a modified form sometimes after few months. I don’t remember numbers, but I think we had few, not many, of those.

    • #34157

      Help! I noticed a stability problem on a Win 8.1 tablet [W700] this AM, and ran sfc/scannow. The resulting CBS log showed installations of GWX.
      I have no clue where these came from as I run Josh’s Control Panel regularly just as a check, and have not done any Windows updates for over a month.
      Use a local account only and have been signed out from my MS and store accounts for months. Also Never check for updates and the checkboxes are unchecked.
      Yet GWX Control panel found and deleted Win 10 apps installed on the tablet, and now on my desktop.
      Am I now suffering Microsoft induced hallucinations, delusions and paranoia?

    • #34158

      Interesting. I noticed on few systems that KB3177467 is installed after all the other updates, not asking for a reboot, however it is probably safer to do another reboot, just in case.

    • #34159

      I think it is enforced via UEFI by Microsoft to be compliant with Windows 8/10. I read something about this, but I don’t know the details.

    • #34160

      In Microsoft’s own description of KB3184143 from:

      ‘This update replaces the following previously-released software:

      Replaces these patches with what exactly?

      If they had stated that it ‘removes’, I would be more comfortable in applying it.

      Yes, I’m getting ‘Twitchy’ about MS.

    • #34161


      OK, I guess I don’t have any updates to clean up as it still doesn’t show. Thanks for the tip.


    • #34162

      Yep. Delusional paranoia, I think.

      GWX is dead. Microsoft isn’t giving away Win10 any more, and the patches last night (which I don’t recommend you install just yet) get rid of all the detritus.

      As for snooping patches… that’s a horse of a different color.

    • #34163

      I’ve considered myself a group B user, but I’d been realizing that I’m more group A, just ‘delayed’. However now I think I’m beyond B.

      Going forward, I’m just installing security updates (like many other people have said they do). If it says security update, I’ll install it…after waiting the standard 2-4 weeks at least unless it’s something alarming.

      At this point, I care, but I don’t care. Anything before 10 isn’t going to get feature updates, so all these other updates they’re trying to push down that aren’t security updates can sit in obscurity for all I care. I’m done.

    • #34164

      The snooping is here to stay. Even Firefox has it, although it is not enforced, only “recommended”.

    • #34165

      Maybe MS is finally fixing WU???!!!

    • #34166

      Alas, it’s true. There’s still Duckduckgo, but other than that and Linux I can’t think of anything snoop-proof these days. And AdBlock Plus is selling ads! (Except note http://www.adnews.com.au/adblock-plus-denies-sell-ads)

    • #34167

      Did you install KB3184143? Perhaps it is superceding the GWX stuff to be sure it doesn’t get installed again and GWX CP sees that as GWX.

    • #34168

      @PK, @Woody.

      KB 3177467 also did not show up in my Optional list either, or anywhere else for that matter.

      Really, can’t MS get themselves together?

    • #34169

      I haven’t the slightest idea where Novosibirsk is, let alone what time it is there.

    • #34170

      I think you’re overreacting, but you’re right- the description sucks.

    • #34171

      I’ve been a Win7 Pro, Group B updater for some time, and successfully avoided the whole GWX mess early on, by first being careful to avoid all GWX updates, and later with the GWX Control Panel.

      I did not install the July KB3172605, or August Kb3179573 rollups when they first appeared, and contrary to what Woody has written in the article, these continue to be offered to me as “Optional” updates when I run a scan in WU. (I must have been doing something right in all of this, since the scan took less than five minutes.)

      Right now, I’m being offered seven “Important” updates (Security for IE11, four Win7 Security updates, the Novosibirsk Time Zone and Sept.’s MSRT), and six “Optional”:

      KB3179930 (Reliability Roll Up for Win7)
      KB3172605 and
      KB3179573 (the monthly Rollups mentioned above)
      KB3181988 (the USBHUB.sys.mui bug-fix)
      KB3184143 (goodbye GWX)
      KB3185278 (the September Rollup).

    • #34172

      Replaces their components with new version that don’t contain win10-upgrade code

      GWX is replaced with totally null (empty) version to insure it’s killed

    • #34173

      I mentioned that few months ago even when I was willing to splash out cash for the latest newest obscenely powerful for what I most definitely do not need for daily use 🙂

      and not only that the hardware drivers are lock too… even though they are no Ms business…
      all the hardware drivers use to come with the computer (I bought dell and that was the case prior 2008)

      anyway if one can get linux on maybe it can search for open source alternative drivers

      but you would have to kiss billy is an angel and the warranty goodbye forever…

      which mean it maybe better off to custom build (in the east anyway)

      or if anyone wants to try – buy the top notch machine then dban the whole thing and install linux or whatever you want

      okie thats the crazies (for the normal ppl)
      but then is not all freedom fought and won by those who think out side of the box
      AND…. venture out off PROMISEDWONDERLAND?

      biily is angel use to think to sell one or more computer in every home ON EARTH and got sued by his own government… (now he wants the moon and the galaxy)

      funny all the hollyhoot movie sell freedom and hero like crazy for all those who watch them – the fantasy – inside prison… prison of the soul and mind anyway

      2cents rant… hv a good wkend ppl


    • #34174

      Yes, I was perhaps
      A bit like Chief Inspector Dreyfuss from the Pink Panther movies 🙂

    • #34175

      Using Belarc Advisor, I checked on some of the Sept patches for Win7. I tried to download KB3175024 but it appeared to have been pulled. I read a comment somewhere online that it had been superseded by KB3172605. I’m not sure if this is true but I did find KB3172605 and it is meant for Win7 – even though Belarc didn’t call for it!

      Today I found that KB3175024 has reappeared as KB3175024-v2. I can only assume that there was some problem and it hopefully was fixed? Unusual for MS to do that so quickly!

      My biggest worry is that the “new” update rollups will be huge downloads. That’s okay if you have fast and reasonably priced internet but lesser netizens like me are really going to get slammed. I was always a Windows girl. I loved XP and grew to like Win7. Now I just received a recent version of Linux Mint to play with. Do you hear that, Redmond? WE’RE NOT HAPPY ANYMORE!

    • #34176

      Although the KB article has been updated, I don’t see a new release for KB3175024. Do you have a link?

      Unlikely that the new cumulative updates will be any larger than the current ones, at least in the near future. MS will gradually roll in older patches. But remember that Windows Update only “installs the deltas” – you won’t get all of the files, every time.

    • #34177

      You are not being offered any update that is not CHECKED IN THE IMPORTANT LIST. They are there only there for PREVIEW.


      And is is not yet time to install the checked important list from Sept 13 either. We are still on DEFCON 2 – which only refers to the Sept CHECKED IMPORTANT updates issued last week.

    • #34178

      Anyone else get a large number of users logging in with a temporary profile this morning?
      Complete shutdown and reboot brings things back to normal.


    • #34179

      Well, you have every right to not have the slightest idea, but in all fairness, don’t blame MS for that. At the same time, to imply that this is insignificant could be viewed as arrogant and disrespectful to the people of Novosibirsk and (presumably) the entire administrative unit to which it belongs. It is not their fault that the manner in which MS implements these regional changes may be annoying to those who live elsewhere.

    • #34180

      .. and I do know people who use the Azerbaijani manat…

    • #34181

      That’s the plan – I’m not installing updates yet, but every so often, especially when things heat up on AskWoody.com, I’ll take a look at what’s on offer. Just to be clear, I have not applied any MS updates since the last “DefCon 3” declaration a couple of weeks ago.

      The point I am making is that my experience does not follow what Woody posted elsewhere, that the monthly “Rollups” appear first as Optional, and then the next month move to “Recommended” or even “Important” with a checked check-box. Those from July and August are still appearing in the “Optional” list on my machine.

    • #34182

      I made an observation, not a criticism of MS or an arrogant or disrespectful attack on the people of Novosibirsk. If you wanted to reply more constructively you could have said where it was!

    • #34183

      It’s on the route of the Trans-Siberian Railway. Often thought of going there, on my way to Lake Baikal – which is still on my bucket list.

      Relax, guys. No harm done.

    • #34184

      KB3175024 is originally released with v2
      there were not any previous version that been pulled
      both KB3172605 and KB3185278 contain KB3175024 components

      yes, the rollups will increase in size with each month
      however, downloadih through Windows Update will utilize express delta download, only new not installed bits are downloaded, which shouldn’t exceed tens of MBs

    • #34185
    • #34186
    • #34187

      @Louis, @PK, @Woody: I did not get this one either. Is this something which is going to cause problems for some of us? 🙁

    • #34188

      Not worth worrying about just yet. Hold tight.

    • #34189

      Hi Woody,

      What’s your recommendation with regard to the NET Framework rollup KB3186208 for 8.1?

      The reason I’m asking is because it contains 4.5.2, 4.6 and 4.6.1 while I only have 4.5 installed. Do I really need the additional flavours?

      As for the GWX removal tool, I don’t have any of the KBs you mentioned in your Infoworld article installed i.e. 3035583, 3064683, 3072318, 3090045, 3123862, 3173040 and 3146449 (managed to avoid all of them successfully). But did the GWX package install anything else besides those that you mentioned?

    • #34190

      I installed KB3172605 manually (I followed Canadian Tech advise), but strangely, WU show it to me in the “Optional update” list again. ???
      …Le Fabuleux Monde de Microsoft…

    • #34191

      Wait for the .NET rollup. I think the installer is smart enough to only install the updates for the versions you need – but I’ve been wrong before.

      I don’t know – don’t think anyone knows – if there are any other culpable patches in the “Get Windows 10” debacle. I have a feeling that those are the only ones.

    • #34192

      Regarding the Windows Update Cleanup, I have always followed HowtoGeek.com’s advice at

      “Windows Update Cleanup:
      When you install updates from Windows Update, Windows keeps older versions of the system files around.
      This allows you to uninstall the updates later.
      However, if you don’t plan on ever uninstalling any Windows updates, this is a waste of space.
      This is safe to delete as long as your computer is working properly and you don’t plan on uninstalling any updates.”

      I cannot ever be sure that my computer is working, or will continue to work, properly, particularly as it’s a Lenovo laptop and it has a couple of inherent problems,
      and I would never say never when it comes to knowing 100% whether I would ever need to uninstall any updates in the future, even though I’m usually very careful about installing them in the first place.

    • #34193


      Just a thought — if you can’t see the “Windows Update Cleanup” option when you first run Disk Cleanup, have you clicked on the button in the Disk Cleanup window called “Clean up System Files? It does a second Disk Cleanup and gives you more options afterwards, including “Windows Update Cleanup”.

      “Assuming you have administrator access to the computer, you’ll want to click “Clean Up System Files” to view a complete list of files you can delete.”

      Some tips that helped some people with this:

    • #34194

      That’s what Nathan Mercer said, at least.

    • #34195

      I know you recommend DuckDuckGo,
      and a few of the threads here over time have included readers’ (including my) recommendations of Ixquick.com and Startpage.com, which claim that they put a premium on user security and privacy…
      You do not mention those 2 search engines (they are run by the same company, from Europe), and I am wondering if you think that those 2 search engines are NOT “snoop-proof” for Americans to use,
      or is it just that they have not been on your radar and you don’t have an opinion about them one way or another?

    • #34196

      It has always been there under Optional. If you really want to avoid any optional patch, although KB3172605 is a good one, try at minimum to have KB3138612 installed. This one is fully supported and flagged as Important. The agent may not have all the enhancements from KB3172605, but I consider it “good enough” and usable until KB3172605 becomes at least Recommended.

    • #34197

      I found something interesting on few computers which are fully patched except for one missing patch and I would like someone who has the capabilities to test to confirm if possible.
      KB3177467 does not appear in the list of detected updates if Microsoft Update is enabled, but it does if only Windows Update is enabled. This seems to be a Windows Update client bug, as the patch is there and alive and can be seen and installed with third-party tools like WU Minitool.

    • #34198

      Update: I am currently checking a computer on which KB3172605 was installed on September 15 and it appears there in History as Recommended. So it may indeed be degraded back to Optional due to new bugs discovered, like the one about which I posted in relation to KB3177467 not being detected?

    • #34199

      I’m just wondering why they’re offering it again that’s all. Or even offering it at all, i thought this was always a standard feature of disk cleanup. Maybe they revised it to take into account the gwx malware they now want to clean up? Who knows. Windows updates are a mystery wrapped in an enigma wrapped in a puzzle…

    • #34200

      That’s why i switched to ublock origin, plus it’s far kinder on system resources and with better features. If a little complex for the average user. But adblock plus whitelisting ads did not at all sit well with me, even if you can turn that off (for now). I don’t touch any google services except maps so the duck is my go to search engine but there are others with a similar philosophy of non-tracking such as https://www.ixquick.eu

    • #34201

      Still thinking about turning off Windows Update?

    • #34202


    • #34203

      The second: They haven’t been on my radar, and I have no idea how well they work.

    • #34204


      My W7 SP1 x64 machine is not “fully patched” with everything MS has sent down the chute since GWX. I am basically on the “security only” mode since back in 2015.
      That said, I have Microsoft Update DISabled, Windows Update ENabled and, as I had previously indicated in response to the PKCano thread, KB3177467 is not offered on my machine.

    • #34205

      Even if what you said were true, I will still do it on my own timetable.

      As far as I can see, for those updates that now appear on my computers running Windows 7:

      KB3185278 — May be useful in the future, but will wait, and if it means it will be combined into the “rollup” next month, then it means I won’t install it, since I have decided to stick to security updates only from October (and if Microsoft decides to include any “rubbish” in the security updates in the future then even they will be banished)
      KB3184143 — Useless for me as I do not have any GWX related updates on any of my computers, already hidden
      KB3179930 — Same treatment as KB3185278, and it should appear as a separate .Net “rollup” anyway in October, so if it is needed I believe I can still install it then
      KB3181988 — Useless for me as I did not use KB3125574 anywhere, already hidden
      KB3182203 — Not useful for me

      So I don’t think I will lose anything by ignoring the “deadline” you mentioned, if indeed it is real.

      Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst.

    • #34206

      The rollup contains 2 update files, one for 4.5.2 ans one for 4.6/4.6.1
      WU is smart enough to just apply the required file

    • #34207

      It’s possible due the state of the update “exclusive”
      meaning it won’t be offered/installed until there are no other updates pending

    • #34208

      Please! Give us a break!!! Finding an unmarked USB stick in your mailbox and then plugging it into your computer has NOTHING to do with Windows Update.

      Don’t plug it in and no problem; plug it in and if your AV is up-to-date, no problem.

      Plug it in and it leverages a security flaw which Windows Update hasn’t patched yet* and being in Group A won’t help you.

      *And the fact that there are security patches almost every month shows that there are plenty of those.

    • #34209

      Maybe this is the reason why those patches are Optional unchecked and not Recommended or Important. They are still in beta and we are their testers!

    • #34210

      Yes, I think so. I installed it because WU stuck on searching. At the moment, kb3172605 is good for me, no problems.

    • #34211

      That’s absolutely correct, IMHO. Look at the record so far with the Win7 rollups.

    • #34212

      BBC weighs in on Windows 10:


    • #34213

      @ch100 & @Woody: The “new” KB3172605 which is on the Optional list. Should it be DL & installed now or not? Apologies for the confusion. This appeared with the regular Sept. updates.

      It’s italicized, and not checked. Thank you for your advice on this one. 🙂

    • #34214
    • #34215

      @louis Thank you for the feedback. This is a good confirmation that the patch may still be buggy at this stage, see also Woody’s reply.
      After all, being fully patched or not patched may not be relevant for this matter.

    • #34216

      The issue is as I said, there is no pre-requisite patch of which I am aware and not installed and what is the weird one, it comes on Windows Update but not on Microsoft Update where Siverlight is on offer.
      This does not happen on WSUS, only on Microsoft Update online.
      It can be related to caching in the WU client, but with all my best efforts, I could not make the patch visible.
      I think wuauclt /resetauthorization/ detectnow does not work anymore and is replaced with wuauclt /detectnow
      WU MiniTool detects the patch on WU or MU and installs it if instructed once detected regardless of the site against which it is scanning.

    • #34217

      They added a clear notice to KB article:

    • #34218

      If you installed security update KB3175024 (which i persume you did), then you already have what new KB3172605 have

    • #34219

      “Important If you use Windows Server Update Services (WSUS) or System Center Configuration Manager (SCCM) to deploy updates, you have Automatically approve new revisions of approved updates enabled on your WSUS or SCCM environment, and you have already deployed KB3172605 automatically when it was initially released in July 2016, this revision will automatically deploy and require a restart after installation. You can disable the automatic approval setting for this update rollup if you don’t intend to automatically deploy the revision of this update rollup and its required restart. Please notice that disabling this setting would require a manual review and approval of any revisions.”

    • #34220

      The .NET rollup packages do NOT apply to those using .NET Framework 4.6.2 as that new version has all the .NET 4.x updates so far.

      .NET 4.6.2 RTM is only available at the MS Download Center and not yet posted on Windows Update & Microsoft Update Catalog sites (maybe until the end of 2016 or sometime in early 2017, ha!)

      But I’ve installed KB3184143 & ran the GWX remover on all my Win7 & Win8.1 PCs – also got rid of KB3123862.

    • #34221

      Stuxnet anyone?

    • #34222

      Sorry, but I don’t understand. My english isn’t good.
      Please, have I to do something or I’m ok to hide the new KB3172605?

    • #34223

      I think you and i should start a separate update Group together, Group S 😀

    • #34224

      @Woody: No, Woody, I would never install anything unless it was cleared by you.

      This KB3172605 was the only one in the Optional List on Sept. 13th “Black Tuesday”.

      After the Sept. 20th update list appeared (the Important ones), KB3185911 was missing, and a new one appeared, KB 3182203.

      The Optional List had 4 new updates, plus the original, so there are 5 now.

      I noted someone referenced KB3175024 which is on the original “Important List”. Nothing was installed from the Important List including this KB3715024.

      I’ve seen reference to a KB3177467 however haven’t seen it in either list. Running Win7, Home Premium X64, and I think this one is for X32.(?).

      Nothing ever “moves” without your OKAY (MS-DEFCON rating elevated). Thank you once again, Woody! 🙂

    • #34225

      @Woody: I see that the last revision was 9-21-16, and that it is Revision 11. What does this mean for a “potential Group B” user? It’s way over my head. Thank you. 🙂

    • #34226


      ‘1467’? or ‘7467’?

    • #34227

      Hang tight. Nothing has been released this month that you need to install. Yet.

    • #34228

      What are the parameters?

      I understand Groups A, B and W….

    • #34229

      Do not install it yet.

      You can hide it if you like, but you don’t really need to hide it.

    • #34230

      Woody: I’m a bit confused now. In the support doc for the updates you mentioned in your Infoworld article, it states that the removal tool REPLACES those updates.

      But what does it replace them with? It is after all 23MB. To my way of thinking removing several updates should just give you back your free space not fill it up again with something else.

      Here’s the link: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3184143

    • #34231

      Nicole, Woody’s quote is for enterprise users who had issues with random reboots because the system administrators did not understand a not so obvious setting and a solution to that problem.

      You don’t have to do anything and do not need to hide the patch if you have the first version already installed.

      Wait for Woody’s advice and install the new revision when the patch will prove to be reliable.

      Please reply if you need further assistance or clarification.

    • #34232

      The Reliability Rollups for .NET Framework for all Operating Systems have been revised. It is not clear how and if it is only cosmetic.
      I installed them on few machines and the initial versions looked like doing what were supposed to do.
      This is why some of the patches are Optional, because they tend to be on the move still and those installing them EARLY are just Microsoft’s new generation of unpaid testers as Woody replied to me and he is obviously right if I need to say it once more 🙂

      To clarify, some old Optional patches are OK if needed, like those three patches for RDP 8/8.1 from 2013. They are a different class of Optionals being around for years and as such stable, but not for everyone’s use, even if they consider themselves to be in Group A. They can be safely installed or not, according to preference and use case.
      The new ones are different though and even 1 month from release may not be enough to be considered safe for less technical users.

    • #34233

      Those appear to be minor revisions with no real impact.

      “Descriptive properties of the update, such as the title, have changed.”

    • #34234

      Completely agree. Using this as a way to promote accepting the Ms crap makes me wonder about ch100. Too much promotion of Wu.

    • #34235

      I was quoting Microsoft. No idea if they actually “replace” anything….

    • #34236

      The workaround for the problem using a feature of EMET is “stop using that feature of EMET”?

    • #34237

      Do they mean “supersedes”? I think they have commonly used that wording before, just not for more than one update at a time.

    • #34238

      Hmm, I was going to ask about this non-security “important” update. Gonna leave it right where it is, on the MS server. Thanks

    • #34239

      Version 4.5 is no longer supported. The only supported versions are 4.5.2 and 4.6.1 and the newer 4.6.2 but not through Windows update yet.

    • #34240

      @fp I have been reading many of your posts. Please post something constructive at least once.

    • #34241

      Install any new applicable updates but with smart route 😀

      i actually disdain Windows Update in Win7

    • #34242

      Replace their components with a new “clean” version of these components which cause them to be superseded

    • #34243

      What smart route would you recommend for everyday Windows users?

      I only see two options: (1) Install updates (including recommended) using Windows Update or (2) manually install each month’s security patches. In both cases, I think it’s reasonable to wait a few weeks after the patches are released to make sure they don’t clobber anything.

      Am I missing something? (Other than “don’t patch at all” which has its own downside.)

    • #34244

      Well, the route is for advanced users

      (3) Install all updates manually

      i don’t need to wait, if a patch turn bad, uninstalling is easy

    • #34245

      Okay I am totally confused about something……
      I have Windows 7 home and have the WU set to “check but let me decide”. The day after Patch Tuesday when I turned on my laptop the WU searched for updates as it always does. It found all the relevant updates which included the KB3179949 .Net Framework 4.6 and 4.6.1 reliability rollup. What is confusing is as of yesterday it has disappeared from the list. I always follow your Defcon rating and wait to install so I know I didn’t install it so WHERE DID IT GO? Please advise! Thanks!

    • #34246

      No idea. Sometimes Microsoft yanks patches – sometimes it refines its patch discovery routines.

      But be of good cheer. That’s one less to worry about.

    • #34247

      Good thinking Woddy but I found it. It showed up in my optional updates as Reliability Rollup for Microsoft .NET Framework 4.5.2, 4.6 and 4.6.1 on Windows 7 and Server 2008 R2 for x64 (KB3179930) Download size: 60.9 MB. I wonder why MS switched it from the recommended list to the optional list and why they changed the KB#?

    • #34248

      I haven’t a clue. Windows Update works in mysterious ways. 🙂

    • #34249

      There was a revision of the patch yesterday which was supposed to be only cosmetic, like changing the title or description. It may have been revised in a different way and you have just noticed the differences.

    • #34250


      Woody’s options of
      “(1) Install updates (including recommended) using Windows Update or
      (2) manually install each month’s security patches”

      will include your option of
      “(3) Install all updates manually”,
      because there will be no way to install individual updates after October’s Patch Tuesday.

      According to Microsoft’s Nathan Mercer, the only choice in the matter that the individual computer owner (or even the largest, most lucrative corporate customer of Microsoft) will have is in deciding whether to install
      the joint security and non-security, cumulative Monthly Rollup on the second Tuesday
      to install the non-cumulative, security-only Rollup on the second Tuesday and/or to install the non-cumulative, non-security Preview Rollup on the third Tuesday.

      Or, perhaps your quibble is with Woody’s strategy to wait a few weeks instead of installing the new Rollups as soon as they are offered — but moving the timing forward wouldn’t be enough reason to create a new group beyond Groups A / B / C(W). It would just be a sub-group, such as Group A (risky branch) or Group B (risky branch).

      “if a patch turn bad, uninstalling is easy” — I’m not sure about that, uninstalling might become a little more complicated with these new Rollups, because multiple patches will need to be unentangled from the computer at one time. I can imagine a scenario where it might require several shutdowns/restarts and more time and attention from the computer owner to successfully uninstall a multi-patch Rollup.

    • #34251

      Please let’s not get too personal in our criticism of each other’s contributions on an individual level (or, unfairly stereotyping a group of contributors, such as calling their posts over-emotional).
      It’s not helpful, and it’s not that kind of forum.
      Indeed, it’s somewhat disrespectful to Woody, because this is very much his personal site that he allows us to visit as guests, and he values harmony and open-mindedness.

    • #34252

      That’s true, and it pains me when I see people squabbling. We’re here to look at Microsoft-related things from many perspectives.

    • #34253



      “Just the facts man!”

    • #34254

      Oh, ok. Thanks ch100 & Woody.
      Now it’s clear for me.

    • #34255

      It doesn’t make a huge difference to me, i install them all (or most of them)
      all updates are equal in my opinion, security/recomoended/optional/hotfix, as long as they are working
      and like i said, i never install from WU or gives attention to what it offers

      bad patches that cause catastrophic issues are rare
      updates that may have or have issue for a certain scenario, doesn’t make the whoe patch bad
      take an example at CR KB3125574 and JulyR kb3172605, both have certain issues, yet they are extremely useful

    • #34256

      I received .net update on 4.5.2 and it took about 4 weeks ago. Then I read on these pages,somewhere, about update system to .net 4.6.1. Thought I would try for kicks and it installed and upon reboot it was gone. So I perceive for that , that my 2009 variety of Win 7 SP1 Home Prem does not digest that high protein stuff (HaHa)

    • #34257

      Has anyone determined the details of the replacement software inherent in KB3184143 ??

      Reference the following from KB3184143:

      Update replacement information.
      This update *replaces* the following previously-released software:

      KB 3035583 — Update installs Get Windows 10 app in Windows 8.1 and Windows 7 SP1
      KB 3064683 — Windows 8.1 OOBE modifications to reserve Windows 10
      KB 3072318 — Update for Windows 8.1 OOBE to upgrade to Windows 10
      KB 3090045 — Windows Update for reserved devices in Windows 8.1 or Windows 7 SP1
      KB 3123862 — Updated capabilities to upgrade Windows 8.1 and Windows 7
      KB 3173040 — Windows 8.1 and Windows 7 SP1 end of free upgrade offer notification
      KB 3146449 — Updated Internet Explorer 11 capabilities to upgrade Windows 8.1 and Windows 7

    • #34258

      Well said! Woody, poohsticks, Joe Friday….. Some blogs are the pits with their stupid, senseless comments that get so bloated. At least at Woody’s one gets answers and reassurance from all that is said/commented on……… to help us all in what we’re trying each one of us to do with our computer lives! And for others who perhaps haven’t commented here before who chip in with ‘stupid’, ‘troll-like’
      statements……….. may it be said…….. This Blog is not the place for that………. go look somewhere else thank you…… LT

    • #34259


      Ne pas s’inquiéter.

      It wasn’t clear to me either Nicole.

      After reading it at:
      paying close attention to the commas and the bold print I got the drift.
      Simple sentences by M$FT would have helped.


    • #34260

      At least we have Woody to sort it all out 😀
      Everybody at all technical levels finds something useful to learn from this site.

    • #34261

      @Woody: Could you please provide a “deadline” for users to make their decision which “Group” they have chosen, and take the steps to set it up for that Group (A, B, or “C/W”)??

      It’s been quite a while since I’ve seen any reference on this point and October 1st is almost upon us.

      Thank you for the information, which I should have asked sooner. 🙂

    • #34262

      There won’t be a deadline until well after the October updates are released.

      It’s much too early to tell how things will work out.

    • #34263

      I rely on you guys to keep me honest. And informed. 🙂

    • #34264

      Thank Goodness for proprietary Lenovo System Restore software — and for the fact that I had a very recent external backup of my entire system. I had to RECOVER from this apocalyptic mess, and I did so successfully this evening.

      Shortly after I installed this hot mess I opened “Computer” (in Win7 Pro 64, SP1.) Most of my icons were missing.

      Then I opened a media file (previously usable) in Media Player: that too failed.

      I then tried to execute SFC/SCANNOW in an elevated Command prompt: failed to execute.

      Back I went to my most recent full-system backup. When Windows Update tried once again to force this on me, I declined it and hid it.

      Good riddance.

    • #34265

      my kb3177467 says important. Only showed up right after the massive roll up, minus the return of the nag screen kb, sorry forgot the nomenclature already. I have yet to install it. Will wait for mas feedback.

    • #34266

      @Louis: What is the difference between “MS Update” being disabled and “Windows Update enabled”?

      I am only aware of the MS Windows Update, which is what I’ve always utilized. Thank you for an explanation.

    • #34267

      Given a (32 bit) W7 ultimate sp1 a few years back.On Oct.11 = KB3177467= critical———–My WU miniTool says that I hid it,& most likely reason I was not sure at time what it was for.Since learnt it is rated critical by googling KB3177467. [What exactly is it for??]Not computer literate/savvy, so very much appreciate your site,with microsoft making final 3 years of W7 a continuing nightmare/headache! Many ,many thanks for a service that should-NOT be required,but microS makes necessary.

    • #34268


      Is there any consensus on whether KB3177467 should be installed or not? This morning, I was following Woody’s Group B steps to install the October 2016 updates and something strange happened involving KB3177467.

      After I had installed KB3192391 and rebooted, I entered Windows Update and was offered 4 important updates and 21 optional updates. (It might be of interest to note that one of the important updates was KB3185330 – the rollup – which Woody was not expecting to be offered as I had already installed KB3192391.) I hid KB3185330, installed the remaining 3 important updates and then rebooted (I never install optional updates with important updates).

      I then entered Windows Update for a second time and, to my complete surprise, I was offered KB3177467 as the only update available!!! It was designated important and there were NO optional updates.

      Bemused, I hid KB3177467, cancelled out of Windows Update and, after a little browsing on the Internet for more information, I entered Windows Update for the third time. This time, I was offered the 21 optional updates and no important updates!!!

      Can anyone explain this behaviour? And should KB3177467 be installed? In Woody’s Infoworld article dated the 21 September 2016, he describes KB3177467 as “The obligatory update to Windows Update”. What does that mean?

    • #34269

      It’s a servicing stack update – which is basically an update to Windows Update.

      Start here: https://www.askwoody.com/2016/ms-defcon-3-time-to-get-the-first-post-patchocalypse-patches-patched/comment-page-4/#comment-105082

    • #34270

      – KB3177467 is an exlusive update that must be installed alone with no other pending updates to avoid the reboot stuck issue that’s is described in KB article
      that’s why when you cleared all other important updates, you are presented with KB3177467 alone

      – yes, KB3177467 should be installed to stabilize the servicing (updating) stack

      – KB3177467 is not an update to Windows Update
      Windows Update -> the engine that checks, scan, compare, organize and offer updates
      servicing stack -> the engine that process updates/features components and install/uninstall them

      – Windows Update doesn’t recognize security only updates (KB3192391), and will request the Monthly rollup nonetheless

    • #34271


      OK, I need to pin this to my console….

    • #34272


      Many thanks for the informative and thorough reply. Much appreciated.

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