• Microsoft Backup triggers help-desk calls and confusion

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    #2590839

    ISSUE 20.40 • 2023-10-02 ON SECURITY By Susan Bradley I applaud Microsoft for admitting that we all need to back up our computers and workstations, or
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    Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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    • #2590849

      Here’s another that showed up magically.  It look like Microsoft replaced the “Mail & Calendar” app with a Microsoft Store app titled “Outlook”, with only a slight change to the icon.  Took me a moment to realize I wasn’t in the Twlight Zone, and had somehow installed the Microsoft 365 version of Outlook twice.  But honestly, why name two different apps the same?  Didn’t they do that with OneNote?

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2590891

        “It looks like Microsoft replaced the “Mail & Calendar” app with a Microsoft Store app titled “Outlook”,

        Well spotted!  Having previously avoided the Mail app like the plague, that’s another trip hazard to avoid.

    • #2590846

      As a home user, this lot of Backup changes doesn’t really concern me.   FileHistory and Cloud are fine for the important stuff – your data files – and since reinstalling Windows these days is so straight forward that just leaves the apps -sorry programs- to sort out.  Fortunately these days I don’t too much complicated stuff but I’m probably in a minority there.

      • #2590890

        Except that apps still store data under %APPDATA% and I don’t see that being backed up by “ordinary” users.

        (To see where %APPDATA% is located, open a Command Prompt and type: set a)

        cheers, Paul

        2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #2590887

      According to this MS KB article, a future update will turn off Windows Backup for AAD and AD users.

    • #2590895

      What Microsoft needs to copy for Windows is macOS’s Time Machine. Time Machine is excellent: you plug in an external drive, set it up for backup, and you’re done. Time Machine runs every hour and automatically backs up all your user data, including your installed programs. That is the true backup utility that Windows ought to have built-in.

      I took one look at this “Windows Backup” utility and balked at it. I have 3.5 TB worth of files to back up, and there’s no way I’m using OneDrive of all things to back that all up. I run a Mac now, granted, utilizing Time Machine for on-site backup and Backblaze for off-site backup. I’m disappointed in Microsoft this time around.

    • #2590901

      On a machine that I have deliberately frozen at W10 1809 Professional and never accept any updates of any kind, last week all my desktop icons suddenly showed check marks inside little circles.

      Apparently this is somehow related to OneDrive backups, which I have never consciously initiated or sanctioned.

      As noted in Susan’s article, no services were running.  I got rid of the check marks by uninstalling OneDrive from within Programs and Features — which was a one-click instantaneous operation, without any intermediate dialog boxes or progress bars

      A couple of questions:

      1.  Did the Uninstall actually delete OneDrive from my computer, or only remove it from Programs and Features?
      2.  How did OneDrive get on that computer in the first place?
      3.  Has anything from that computer actually been migrated to Microsoft’s cloud?  If so, where would it be?  I don’t think I consciously ever created a Microsoft account.

      If my attitude expressed herein indicates a deep distrust of Microsoft, that would be correct.  And these kinds of shenanigans by Microsoft only confirms and deepens that attitude.

      — AWRon

       

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    • #2590909

      I run the old Windows Backup and Restore on my Win 10 22H2 machine. Works fine, just like it did in Win 7. I didn’t even know I had the so-called Backup program that Susan mentions. It has never popped up or bothered me. I guess I’m lucky.

       

      • #2594438

        I didn’t even know I had the so-called Backup program that Susan mentions. It has never popped up or bothered me. I guess I’m lucky.

        It doesn’t pop up or bother anyone.

    • #2590917

      I am currently using Windows 7 Backup that I can find in the Windows Control Panel on all of my seven computers at the thrift shop where I volunteer.  I have a mix of Win10 and Win11.

      I hope that this Win7 backup procedure does not go away.  Any ideas?

       

      Thanks, Bruce

    • #2590938

      OK, Win 10 22h2 and I am a little different:

      I DO NOT have Mail and Calendar NOR a new Outlook as I use Outlook 2010 perhaps?

      I have only 1 Windows BAckup in the start menu under W. It is not in Settings/App. There is not “open file location”

      Is there a way to see what is on the harddrive from this and to remove it and block future?

       

    • #2590940

      Tried out the new Windows Backup on an old Windows 10 laptop to see if it could migrate my system to another laptop. It failed to backup the Folders. Rebooted and tried it several times: same result.

    • #2590946

      this new Microsoft Backup app from KB5030211 even installs on LTSC editions of Windows 10 as well.
      THAT’S RIGHT, LTSC! when it should not even be there in the first place for SUCH USERS!

      Born has written about that in his blog a few days ago:

      Windows 10 update KB5030211 ships backup app to LTSC versions and frustrates LTSC users

      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #2590953

      “For home users, it’s an annoying reminder of our Redmond overlords.”

      MS-Mothership

      A smile is an inexpensive way to change your looks.
      3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #2590950

      I was looking for a new backup solution but this is definitely not it.  Thanks, you just earned my next paid membership.  (This app appeared near the bottom of my start menu without any announcements)

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #2590958

      I use Open-Shell for the start menu on my Win 10 Pro 22H2 system and never use the Windows Start Menu. In Open-Shell this new Windows Backup app is only listed under “Apps” so far as I can tell, where it is just another app listed in alphabetical order. It is not obvious and you have to look for it.

      I never use the Cloud for anything. Backup storage devices of the kind that fit my needs are pretty affordable. No need for me to put my data on another system with someone else providing security, which might not be as good as they claim it is.

      3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #2590970

      KB5032038: Overview of Windows Backup as installed in Windows 10 and Windows 11

      …Because Windows Backup is a system component, it cannot be removed. However, we will be releasing a future Windows Update that prevents Windows Backup from appearing on certain user interface (UI) screens for Azure Active Directory (AAD) or Active Directory (AD) users that run the Pro, Education, or Enterprise editions of Windows 10 or Windows 11. For example, after the future Windows update is installed, Windows Backup will not appear in the “All apps” or “Installed apps” lists…

      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #2590978

      Thanks, Alex.

    • #2590992

      I’ve used Acronis image backups for many years.  Always worked for me when needed.  I can restore a partition, a drive or individual files easily.  I keep backups local, never in the cloud.

      I never understood why MS didn’t see the value of an easy to use backup/imaging service.

      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #2590999

      Thanks, Susan. Your post is spot on.

      When it comes to OS drive image backups, Macrium Reflect has been my tool of choice for years as well. Never failed me. I have offline enterprise HDDs for those images (with duplicates!). I also create file and folder backups of all my data drives to offline HDDs. If ever needed, I have everything needed for reinstalling Windows, my applications and data. I sleep well at night.

      I continue to resist overly-integrated, walled-garden, swiss-army-knife style software. Windows itself has become worse and worse in that regard. I make all reasonable efforts to use purpose-built standalone programs that I judge to be among best-of-class for a specific need. “Jack-of-all-trades” software equals “master-of-none”.

      Microsoft has flubbed up once again. Another shiny new thing that is actually not so useful…

      Win10 Pro x64 22H2, Win10 Home 22H2, Linux Mint + a cat with 'tortitude'.

      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #2591025

      When it comes to OS drive image backups, Macrium Reflect has been my tool of choice for years as well. Never failed me.

      Same here. Also ditto the “sleep well” every night.  My days-end Macrium image backup resides on multiple external drives and monthly to a cloud encrypted container.  OS or Data loss concerns of any kind are just not a factor.

      Custom desktop Asus TUF X299 Mark 1 16GB RAM i7-7820X
      Four 27" 1080p screens 2 over 2.
      Laptop Clevo/Sager i7-9750H - 17.3" Full HD 1080p 144Hz, 16GB RAM Win 10 Pro 22H2

    • #2591077

      Yesterday I provided feedback to Microsoft that their software development process was conceptually defective.  There are other operating system companies that utilize a far superior methodology to develop and maintain their software.  My issues cover a wide variety of problems, including, but not limited to, maintaining a website with VS Code.  I do not use an IDE, but write all of the website code with HTML and CSS.  Current Windows 11, VS Code, and OneDrive make considerable headaches as it seems that there is no consideration for the way I create and maintain a website.  The Microsoft Backup disaster only shows how deep the trouble goes.  My hopes that Microsoft management can fix this problem are now fading much faster.  Please keep up your investigations and reporting the pros and cons.  We can only hope that things get better and not worse.

      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2591147

        I think it will only get worse as Microsoft management is either incompetent and/or they just don’t care. Their only interest any more is using their Windows as a service (WaaS) model or Application as a service (ex. Office 365) to try to monetize the end user as much as possible.

        I feel bad for their software programmers/engineers, many of which are most likely very talented but are forced to create and put all these unwanted “things” into Windows (and other Microsoft applications) at the behest of their incompetent management.

    • #2591260

      Is there a way to uninstall Microsoft Backup from a Windows 10 Pro system?

      • #2591277

        Not according to MS. See post #2590970 above.

        cheers, Paul

      • #2591400

        “Because Windows Backup is a system component, it cannot be removed. However, a future Windows Update grants the option to prevent Windows Backup from appearing on certain user interface screens for Entra ID or AD users that run certain Windows editions.”

        Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

    • #2591398

      Overview of Windows Backup as installed in Windows 10 and Windows 11

      The Windows Backup system component is installed on devices as part of Windows updates released on and after August 22, 2023. This component is designed to provide a cloud solution to back up files and folders, settings, credentials, and apps. In addition to restoring data, users can import data when switching to a new Windows device.

      Currently, the Windows Backup app is primarily focused for consumer devices – for example, devices that can be used by signing in to a personal Microsoft account (MSA). It’s not presently available for Microsoft Entra ID (formerly Azure AD) or Active Directory (AD) users. For answers to frequently asked questions related to this component, see KB5032038: Overview of Windows Backup as installed in Windows 10 and Windows 11.

      When will this happen:

      Windows Backup is installed by Windows 10 and Windows 11 updates released on and after August 22, 2023.

      How this will affect your organization:

      By design, Windows Backup is not supported for Entra ID or AD. If you try to run Windows Backup in these scenarios, you will receive the error message “This feature is not supported by your organization.” For more information about Windows Backup, see Backup and Restore in Windows.

      Because Windows Backup is a system component, it cannot be removed. However, a future Windows Update grants the option to prevent Windows Backup from appearing on certain user interface screens for Entra ID or AD users that run certain Windows editions.

      What you need to do to prepare:

      See the resources below to answer any questions you or your users have related to Windows Backup.

      Additional information:

      Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #2591564

      Has anyone tried uninstalling the KB5030211 stealth upgrade on a Windows 10 test system? Does the uninstall work? If so, I would expect you would have to mark it hidden to keep it off.

      Besides what Microsoft claims KB5030211 does, has anyone identified additional hidden things it does?

      Seems rather strange for Microsoft to claim just a weakly designed and poorly named App can’t be uninstalled.    Perhaps a KB5030211 remover utility will surface.

      Windows 10 22H2 desktops & laptops on Dell, HP, ASUS; No servers, no domain.

      • #2591570

        Don’t forget – Windows CUs are cumulative. If you remove it today, you’ll get it back next month. 🙂

        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2591571

        Has anyone tried uninstalling the KB5030211 stealth upgrade on a Windows 10 test system? Does the uninstall work?

        Hi oldfry:

        KB5030211 is the September 2023 Patch Tuesday monthly Quality Update for Win 10 (build 19044.3348 for v21H1, 19045.3448 for v22H2) so if you uninstall KB5030211 to remove the new Windows Backup app then you’ll also remove the patches for the 16 security vulnerabilities discussed in the 12-Sep-2023 ghacks.net article The Windows September 2023 Security Updates Are Now Available, including the patch for the critical CVE-2023-38148.

        As PKCano noted in post # 2591570, the monthly Quality Updates are cumulative so even if you uninstall KB5030211 the new Windows Backup app that’s now integrated with the Win 10 OS will just be reinstalled when you apply your October 2023 Patch Tuesday updates.
        ——————-
        Dell Inspiron 5584 * 64-bit Win 10 Pro v22H2 build 19045.3448 * Firefox v118.0.1 * Microsoft Defender v4.18.23080.2006-1.1.23090.2007 * Malwarebytes Premium v4.6.3.282-1.0.2158 * Macrium Reflect Free v8.0.7279

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