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  • Microsoft: Enabling innovation and opportunity on the Intelligent Edge

    Home Forums AskWoody blog Microsoft: Enabling innovation and opportunity on the Intelligent Edge

    This topic contains 30 replies, has 19 voices, and was last updated by

     rc primak 1 month, 2 weeks ago.

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    • #1755499 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      I get hives when I see “Intelligent Edge” capitalized… Yesterday Microsoft Corporate VP Nick Parker gave a keynote at Computex in Taipei. It’s a won
      [See the full post at: Microsoft: Enabling innovation and opportunity on the Intelligent Edge]

      3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #1755525 Reply

      PKCano
      Da Boss

      How many invented Buzz words can you get in one paragraph, for gosh sakes!

      9 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1755651 Reply

        woody
        Da Boss

        This one has to set some sort of record…

        Whenever I see that kind of buzzword density, I have to ask myself: Do the people writing this stuff understand what they’re saying?

        6 users thanked author for this post.
        • #1757614 Reply

          Ascaris
          AskWoody_MVP

          I don’t think they do understand their own words.  I think the intent is to use a lot of sparkly words to say nothing, dazzling investors into thinking that this is something really awesome.  The investors do not want to admit they don’t understand what they just heard, so they pretend they do, and no one wants to be the one that notices that the emperor has no clothes.  None of them understood any of it, but they all think they’re the one dummy who didn’t get it. Meanwhile, those people who know tech enough to realize that it was a bunch of nothing are called Luddites for not sharing the enthusiasm of the people that didn’t understand any of what they are enthusiastic about.

          It’s just a big con job, I think… the salesmen (and these people are most certainly salesmen!) know that investors can be worked into a frenzy over nothing.  During the dotcom era, all one had to do was have some kind of half-baked idea with a catchy name and a tie-in to the internet, and investors would line up at the door to throw money at your “company,” which often was just a guy with no product and no business plan (or business experience).  It’s why the bubble formed… there has to be actual value to match the money being thrown around, and if not, the eventual result is predictable.  The same thing happened in the 2008 real estate bubble and the 1929 stock market bubble.  People who should have known better started to believe that things can just keep going up and up forever.

          A lot of business is boring.  If Microsoft did a straight-up presentation describing what they were planning, it probably would not generate the buzz and excitement that a dog-and-pony show full of buzzwords would.  Excitement leads to the tech pundits talking about how Microsoft is the new Apple, how they’re innovative, and just how great they are, and that leads to stock analysts saying, “Buy Microsoft!  Buy, buy, buy!”  That leads to the financial mags talking about how much market cap Microsoft has, and that just feeds the cycle.  Perception is everything!

           

          Group "L" (KDE Neon User Edition 5.16.3).

          4 users thanked author for this post.
    • #1755650 Reply

      zero2dash
      AskWoody Lounger

      I would never hold my breath – this is MS, after all – but they have done some wonderful things over the last few years with being more open source friendly, WSL, and moving things to GitHub (after purchasing it, of course). I’m more willing to hear them out than I was a few years ago, that’s for sure.

      If Linux derivatives can do it for free, why can’t MS?

      • #1755653 Reply

        woody
        Da Boss

        Strip away the buzzwords and pie-in-the-sky, and if this is where Microsoft is heading, I’m ready to tag along.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #1759571 Reply

          HappyElderNerd
          AskWoody Plus

          I’d be willing to tag along, too…but Microsoft–FIRST–has to show me they’re on top of fixing and remediating all the inevitable bugs a new “class of features” this is going to demand in the first 3-5 years.

          Speech is a hot topic.  Frankly, I’m NOT enamored.  Not only would speaking to my computer awaken my spouse, but what happens if a neighbor kid with a voice seriously close to mine comes in and says something destructive?

          We’re in an era where we’ve lost sight of one basic rule:  ALWAYS COMMENCE DESIGN WITH THE OBJECTIVE IN MIND.  How to you do that with “AI?”  We can release those features into the wild…but you’ll be able to identify the pioneers by the arrows in their backs!

          And, there’s a second rule:  ALWAYS BE ON THE LOOKOUT FOR UNEXPECTED BEHAVIOR (aka bugs!).   How will earliest customers–eager to deploy the new stuff–fare, when we KNOW that there will be dozens of unexpected behaviors that must be researched, understood and fixed?  There is–to date–NO way to identify ALL the inherent bugs in software before release to a broad population of adopters.  Microsoft, and many other “high-tech” firms, have an endearing trust in their ability to cover all the bases before starting the income stream, and it’s always the CUSTOMER who pays the price.  Just look at how Lo-o-o-ong Windows 10 has taken to stabilize!

          And, there’s a third rule:  Introduce changes incrementally, not all at once.  That’s not likely by for-profit firms, because they’re betting their investment on the premise that they will attract lots of customers and investors.  In other words, the cash flow takes precedence over the quality of the product.  Rip a page out of the automobile industry:  Did we jump from the Model T Ford to the Tesla?  No, we saw the industry make improvements each year, moving with the customer satisfaction (as expressed by the automakers’ income from sales).  Somehow, we’re in an era when people who HAVEN’T lived through long, step-by-step evolution think they can just bypass all that nonsense.  There are reasons that DeLorean and DeSoto and Duesenberg aren’t still on the road (and it isn’t because their names start with “D”).  They were typically rushed to market, to turn engineering investment into sales revenues, and were typically inhabitants of repair facilities.

          There are precious few firms who make a radical shift in the competitive mainstream who are successful over the long term.  Let that be a warning to those hell-bent on CHANGE in customer expectations.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #1755654 Reply

      GreatAndPowerfulTech
      AskWoody Lounger

      I found it ironic that they appear to be describing Chrome OS. I also  do not have faith in Microsoft pulling off releasing a completely new OS. They’ll probably strip Windows, keeping very old code alive, while we wait for the bugs to pop up. They might do a nice job. But, it’s just not their style to start fresh.

      GreatAndPowerfulTech

    • #1755657 Reply

      David F
      AskWoody Plus

      I loved the bit about no deadspots.

      I was on holiday last week in the Highlands (Scotland) where there is no wifi, phone signal or anything else, so I guess cloud must mean those real ones in the sky. I wonder if MS means you should leave your pc in the rain to connect to the cloud 🙂

      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1760374 Reply

        Lugh
        AskWoody_MVP

        where there is no wifi, phone signal or anything else, so I guess cloud must mean those real ones in the sky. I wonder if MS means you should leave your pc in the rain to connect to the cloud

        I assume he’s talking about satellite connection, which is already well established—but slow. In the future he described, we’ll hardly be able to see the night sky for all the tin cans we’ll have floating up there. Satellite is an industry poised for a major breakthru in usage, once they solve the speed problem.

        Lugh.
        ~
        Alienware Aurora R6; Win10 Home x64 1803; Office 365 x32
        i7-7700; GeForce GTX 1060; 16GB DDR4 2400; 1TB SSD, 256GB SSD, 4TB HD

    • #1756354 Reply

      anonymous

      Let me say this: even if they can pull that off, I won’t trust it. Why? You cannot automatize everything and not expect to pay steep price when the s*** hits the fan. I do not like the way things are going, where the user is losing control and the corporations are getting it. It is not right, mainly because they won’t lose but you will. Take bad patches, and being unable to work. Take you get hacked by their mistake and your PII goes public. Such as these, there are a ton of scenarios. So, good luck MS with your naive view of how a OS of the future should be.

      Please follow the –Lounge Rules

    • #1756403 Reply

      lurks about
      AskWoody Lounger

      ChromeOS must really be scaring them, I did not think ChromeOS was such a hot commodity. What they are describing is pretty close to what you can find with many Linux distros, BSD distros, ChromeOS, and MacOS. Maybe they need to ditch the NT kernel and use the Linux or BSD kernel.

    • #1756364 Reply

      anonymous

      This is all stuff I do not want in my OS.  What I want in my OS is ease of connection when I want to connect.  All it should do is flawlessly run the programs I chose to run, when I choose to run them.  Eternal connectivity can mean eternal loss of privacy, eternal distractions, and eternal loading down of the processes I want to run.

       

      5 users thanked author for this post.
    • #1756956 Reply

      anonymous

      It’s just a running gag Microsoft comes up with every single day. Microsoft knowns very well that there’s no AI or whatever science-fiction nonsense they tout. In fact, whenever Microsoft delivers unstable software or technology, they call it driven-by-AI. Their very own search engine Bing can’t even find simple stuff in Microsoft’s own Web sites anymore since AI with IQ 0 is in play.

      Chrome OS is good enough for Internet coffee shops, but that’s all about. If someone is looking for a Linux-based OS, there are better ones than Chrome OS.

    • #1758740 Reply

      Elrod
      AskWoody Plus

      “Delighters?”

      I marvel at the fact that someone is actually getting paid, and probably very well, to dream up this nonsense.

      Group "L": Linux Mint

      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #1759426 Reply

      AlexEiffel
      AskWoody_MVP

      Aren’t they describing a bit the same vision that Windows 8 was about, just worse? Universal apps running on all form factors, secure with a store full of vetted apps…

      It didn’t work, guys.

      Security by default is nice, but execution is key here and Microsoft have often added security features while pushing other features where the default settings reduced security at the same time, so trust is not very high. On one side, you seem to have very good people working on security at Microsoft. On the other side, they are not in charge of supervising the whole OS so you end up with other people adding features that reduce security.

      The big missing piece is “privacy by default”. That is why this vision is extremely scary for me. I don’t want an always connected OS that knows what I will do tomorrow. Fine if you want to offer this part optional for those who enjoy it, but make it easy to control it.

      A modern OS should be secure by default, easily customizable with an ability to easily save/import settings and not have them moved around after invisible updates. Settings should be all in the same place in categories, not scattered everywhere (they seem to move in that direction in a way, but unfortunately privacy is still not an easy thing to set up properly on 10 despite having its own category). It should be easy to review all the OS settings and isolate those that relates to security or privacy vs those that are more cosmetic or productivity enhancements. Nothing should be sent to Microsoft if the user doesn’t want it : web searches, telemetry…

      The system should provide adequate imaging capabilities and an easy way to set up the OS from scratch with a determined set of settings, even for home/small business users. That way, reinstalling the OS with a quick import of custom settings or restoring an image would not be too different (apps would work in a compatible manner of course, so they can be restored easily).

      When there is an update, you shouldn’t have to worry about having your privacy preferences reset or new privacy invading features added and turned on by default. This is a big problem. For people who are busy and have no time doing a complete review of each OS change, there is nothing exciting about this vision. I much prefer to analyze one OS and run it for 5 years or more without thinking about it. If they want to add features and change constantly, it should be in a non disruptive, non privacy invading way. And changing an OS UI regularly is not cool for many people, it is just a loss of time adapting. It’s about apps, people, not about what is behind. What is behind should be safe, performant, lean, support hardware innovations, private and not sucking your bandwidth if you don’t want to. The rest should be optional and easy to ignore.

      It seems that often, companies tries to differentiate themselves (the delight part in the speech) while trying to get away with not getting the basics right hoping people will mostly notice the bells and whistles (to which maybe they do to some extent if no company gets the basics right anyway). Some studies have shown that a lot of companies can’t get the basics right. It is hard. It is probably harder in technology, so why not differentiating by just getting the basics right, uh?

      The last thing an OS should be is exciting, or should I say scary? You should buy it because it works well and you forget it in the background with no worry that you might loose data during a hidden update. The days where people will line up to buy the latest OS are over, get over it, it is not coming back. That’s my opinion, and I might be in a minority.

      4 users thanked author for this post.
    • #1759628 Reply

      Alex5723
      AskWoody Plus

      Some interesting renders of Microsoft’ Windows Lite OS’ posted at : https://betanews.com/2019/05/30/files-for-windows-lite/

      • #1759630 Reply

        woody
        Da Boss

        … but to be clear, these are just doodles from a Windows aficionado, about what he would like to see.

        I’ll believe “Windows Lite” — and weigh in on its (lack of) features — when I see it.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #1759847 Reply

          Alex5723
          AskWoody Plus

          … but to be clear, these are just doodles from a Windows aficionado

          Or, could be based on Microsoft’s ‘leaks’ in order to test public reactions to the new ‘Lite’.

        • #1761045 Reply

          anonymous

          I thought the 2014 announcement of the ‘OneCore’ project was supposed to be it (maybe that is the current Windows 10 incarnation) or was it another future code named project?

    • #1760072 Reply

      John
      AskWoody Lounger

      I can imagine Microsoft using bits of Chromium OS and making their own Edgebook or some sort of ARM based Chromebook like device. Possibly with emulation or web based 32 bit app support or possibly like what Chrome OS is doing with Linux and web apps. Only instead of Linux it would be for 32 bit Windows applications. I was thinking the other day that for many a Chrome OS is probably all they need now. We know Microsoft wants to find the key to a RT, S mode like OS and with Edge Chromium and some bits of Chromium OS they could get there.

      • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by
         John.
      • #1760947 Reply

        Lugh
        AskWoody_MVP

        for many a Chrome OS is probably all they need now

        For communication & media consumption, Chrome should do the trick. But there are a lot of people who need more. Eg 13yo relative got Chromebook for Christmas, but can’t do her school work on it.

        We’re 3-5 years away from mobiles & Chromes & Arms being able to do what PCs do today. So it’ll come soon enough, by which time it’ll all have mostly moved to the cloud anyway—where the OS will be largely irrelevant & invisible.

        What Super-PR-Dude is talking about is what becomes possible once the digital world is cloud-centric. It will be very different once the OS is in the cloud, not on your device. Then it’s not billions of configs pulling from the cloud, it’ll be tens of OSs pushing to their subscriber base.

        This can easily deliver the experience he talked about, once the supporting techs’ teething troubles are sorted out.

        seamless updates
        secure by default
        Always connected when LTE 5G is available
        sustained performance
        compute power of the cloud: this will be a big step forward for consumers, in the way AWS, Azure etc have been a big step forward for companies—scalable apps & computing power
        powered by AI
        multi-sense

        We’re in transition now and thru the 20s, so it’ll mean big big changes in our near futures.

        Lugh.
        ~
        Alienware Aurora R6; Win10 Home x64 1803; Office 365 x32
        i7-7700; GeForce GTX 1060; 16GB DDR4 2400; 1TB SSD, 256GB SSD, 4TB HD

        • #1766298 Reply

          rc primak
          AskWoody_MVP

          LTE is not a 5G protocol:

          The actual 5G radio system, known as 5G-NR, isn’t compatible with 4G.

          — What Is 5G?

          https://www.pcmag.com/article/345387/what-is-5g

          There have to be whole new handsets, or else bulky add-ons to handle the new protocols. New hotspots and home base units will also use essentially the same wireless technologies and protocols.

          Best 5G phones: every 5G phone announced and still to come in 2019

          https://www.t3.com/news/best-5g-phones

          For awhile the 5G ready phones will need a 4G (LTE) fallback, but the plan is to phase out 4G (and LTE) completely eventually.

          This means our future will not only be Always Connected, but it will be Always Wireless. And seamless from device to device, as the protocols will be the same for PCs, All In Ones, Phones and Hotspots/Modems.

          -- rc primak

      • #1766309 Reply

        rc primak
        AskWoody_MVP

        Possibly with emulation or web based 32 bit app support or possibly like what Chrome OS is doing with Linux and web apps. Only instead of Linux it would be for 32 bit Windows applications.

        Progressive Web Apps (PWA) are OS agnostic. In the Cloud it doesn’t matter whether the server is running Linux, Windows or Apple. 32-bit desktop apps have no direct correlation with Web Apps. (Although, the server may be running with Win32 or Linux APIs.)

        These differences don’t come down to the end user, because we connect to Progressive Web Apps through a browser or through an app interface or a launcher which only gets us connected to the Internet. The rest happens on the remote server. Even our files stay on the remote server, and our desktop is there too.

        A Chromebook may be running apps hosted by a Linux server, a Windows server or both. (Or neither, in rare cases.)

        -- rc primak

        • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by
           rc primak.
    • #1761055 Reply

      Paul T
      AskWoody MVP

      Eg 13yo relative got Chromebook for Christmas, but can’t do her school work on it.

      Why not?

      cheers, Paul

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #1761081 Reply

        mn–
        AskWoody Lounger

        I would be interested too.

        Is it a connectivity problem, specific software availability, authentication / protocol issues, or what?

        See, one of my kids is in a tech-focused program in comprehensive school, is supposed to do their homework on a school-provided iPad and… well, some of the practical issues are… “interesting”.

      • #1766301 Reply

        rc primak
        AskWoody_MVP

        Is the school using all-Microsoft products, like Word/Excel/Sway/Azure Remote Desktop?

        -- rc primak

    • #1764957 Reply

      F A Kramer
      AskWoody Plus

      The scientific term for the speech quoted above is, “Excrement of Gentleman Cow”. How anyone could actually make such a speech in all seriousness and think it was scholarly is beyond my understanding. As to Windows knowing what I am going to do tomorrow….. I don’t even know that myself in any detail.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #1765434 Reply

      alphacharlie
      AskWoody Plus

      Eg 13yo relative got Chromebook for Christmas, but can’t do her school work on it.

      Why not?

      cheers, Paul

      for those of us thinking that a chromebook could be a good alternative to windows machines, it would be very interesting to know more specifically what tasks and functions are not possible.

       

    • #1766302 Reply

      rc primak
      AskWoody_MVP

      So, if Always Connected applies to the vendor and the customer, what happens when the conduit between the two (5G Internet Services) goes down for an extended period. I know, 5G networks have an “Intelligent Edge”, which among other things means failover redundancy. But what if you get into a “signal shadow” or “dead spot”? How do you work then? I have a Chromebook, and believe me, without an Internet Connection, even inserting the date and time into an offline Google Doc (not a spreadsheet or Google Sheet) is a nightmare.

      I was dual-booting Linux with Chrome OS in that Chromebook. Then the Fedora Project changed the way they partition the disk for GRUB2 Bios booting. I have yet to figure out how to install Fedora 30 into a Chromebook without triggering a Chrome OS reset.  So much for being able to work offline in that device!

      My point is, how do you get any real work done offline on a device and in an OS which is designed to be Always Connected? “Seamless” my left foot!!

       

      -- rc primak

    • #1766303 Reply

      rc primak
      AskWoody_MVP

      Oh, and by the way, this is what the Intelligent Edge really means in Enterprise networking:

      The Intelligent Edge: What it is, what it’s not, and why it’s useful

      https://www.hpe.com/us/en/insights/articles/the-intelligent-edge-what-it-is-what-its-not-and-why-its-useful-1704.html

      Not the same as Microsoft Azure marketing bafflegab:

      The future of computing: intelligent cloud and intelligent edge

      https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/overview/future-of-cloud/

      The differences are not subtle!

      -- rc primak

    Please follow the -Lounge Rules- no personal attacks, no swearing, and politics/religion are relegated to the Rants forum.

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