Microsoft re-releases snooping patches KB 2952664 (for Win7), KB 2976978 (Win 8.1)

Topic

What’s going on? InfoWorld Woody on Windows
[See the full post at: Microsoft re-releases snooping patches KB 2952664 (for Win7), KB 2976978 (Win 8.1)]

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Pepsiboy, Elly

Replies

“There is no GWX or upgrade functionality contained in this update.”

I stopped believing anything they say a long time ago.

Windows 10 Home 22H2, Acer Aspire TC-1660 desktop + LibreOffice, non-techie

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JDeC, zero2dash, Cesar, lizzytish

Anybody who has not stopped ought to have their heads examined.

According to Microsoft, it’s for CEIP…

For what it’s worth, KB2952664 has been known to go around the “No, I don’t want to participate in CEIP.” It’s a snooper that is behind the Diagnostic Tracking Service.

8 users thanked author for this post.

JDeC, SueW, Cesar, fp, Elly, lizzytish, walker, ch100

I have had it installed on W 8.1, W 10 Preview Ring, W 10 Fast Ring(W 10 Generally sayn’, OOBE) since there beginnings. I personally have no problem with personally with the telemetry.

My only concern is that MS has not really gotten their act together to actually use the results in a beneficial way, broad based. From what I have heard, most of it is helping nobody….

Anybody else know anything about that? any facts?

It is also offered to me on W 8.1…..

--------------------------------------

1. Tower Totals: 2xSSD ~512GB, 2xHHD 20 TB, Memory 32GB

SSDs: 6xOS Partitions, 2xW8.1 Main & Test, 2x10.0 Test, Pro, x64

CPU i7 2600 K, SandyBridge/CougarPoint, 4 cores, 8 Threads, 3.4 GHz
Graphics Radeon RX 580, RX 580 ONLY Over Clocked
More perishable

2xMonitors Asus DVI, Sony 55" UHD TV HDMI

1. NUC 5i7 2cores, 4 Thread, Memory 8GB, 3.1 GHz, M2SSD 140GB
1xOS W8.1 Pro, NAS Dependent, Same Sony above.

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Crysta, you got it about right, but we are in minority here… 🙂

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PhotM

WAIT, WAIT, CH 100,

You want me in the majority???? I have never been in the majority……… 😛

By the Way, what is it like in the Majority? 🙂

--------------------------------------

1. Tower Totals: 2xSSD ~512GB, 2xHHD 20 TB, Memory 32GB

SSDs: 6xOS Partitions, 2xW8.1 Main & Test, 2x10.0 Test, Pro, x64

CPU i7 2600 K, SandyBridge/CougarPoint, 4 cores, 8 Threads, 3.4 GHz
Graphics Radeon RX 580, RX 580 ONLY Over Clocked
More perishable

2xMonitors Asus DVI, Sony 55" UHD TV HDMI

1. NUC 5i7 2cores, 4 Thread, Memory 8GB, 3.1 GHz, M2SSD 140GB
1xOS W8.1 Pro, NAS Dependent, Same Sony above.

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I’m probably sticking my head out here, CH100……….. but why do you think that you are in the
minority……… Have you ever thought that those that are questioning, being the Devil’s Advocate/whatever………. are really trying to get to the bottom of stuff and find answers about their concerns. You are a beacon, even if you don’t think so yourself. Your knowledge is so useful for us and helps us to evaluate all this in our minds. Many of us have lost confidence in what we are told by MS…….. and to have somebody like yourself giving your views (not MS’) is of great help to us! Just my 2 bits LT

It’s always about is the Cup Half Full or Half Empty!

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ch100

Thank you LT. ?
I was commenting on Crysta’s post in the sense that I also accept that KB2952664 or equivalent for other OS are not harmful and can prove useful in some instances by alerting for possible incompatible applications. Obviously there is a price to be paid which is allowing Microsoft to collect data.
And like Crysta, I have the same concerns that the snooping concept is less functional than it should be and in the end nobody really knows if it serves any useful purpose for the end user or for Microsoft. It seems to be in an ongoing beta, like many other recent releases from Microsoft.
I am completely over Windows 7 for my personal use, but I am forced to have an interest in all Windows versions for professional reasons.
I use Windows 10 1607.

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lizzytish

That’s exactly right.

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ch100

I’m not overly concerned about the snooping, either – thus, I’m using Win10. But some people are concerned. At the very least, MS should give us a list of what data they’re collecting, and give us the option to delete any data we don’t want them to have.

Microsoft isn’t the only one. I think that every company that collects personal info should be held to the same standard.

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212louis, lizzytish

Allowing people to delete info being collected is too little, too late.

Having to identify yourself with an account in order to review or delete? Completely unacceptable…

Yep… Microsoft is misbehaving on a grand scale, and just because all the other corporations and governments are doing it too, because they can, doesn’t make it right.

Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter

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Jonesy

Elly, actually if you have never identified yourself with a Microsoft account previously, you have nothing to delete as you are anonymous.
Does it make sense?

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Jonesy, woody, Elly

@Ch100- regarding “Elly, actually if you have never identified yourself with a Microsoft account previously, you have nothing to delete as you are anonymous.”

Microsoft does say each computer is assigned a unique ID… does it matter if it is my name and street address, or computer and IP address, it identifies me. It is being made no longer anonymous or optional. If the “unique ID” were optional… maybe it would be possible to be anonymous. It makes no sense to have to create a Microsoft ID to log in (give more information) to delete or correct information that should never have left my house in the first place.

Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter

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RamRod, Jonesy, lizzytish, PKCano

Don’t forget the advertising id. Debatable whether it can be linked to a specific individual, but my guess is that it can – and it is.

Once you give up a right — in this case privacy — you never know where it’s going and what other losses it will trigger. That’s how tyranny starts.

Those who do not protect their rights deserve everything they get. Problem is we all pay the price.

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Jonesy

@Woody on InfoWorld

“Why isn’t it being held for next Tuesday’s Monthly Rollup?”

More than likely the new patches will be promoted to Recommended next week and the old ones will be expired shortly after.
At the moment, there are 2 versions on offer, under the same KB number (for Windows 7).
The October 2016 version is Recommended.
The February 2017 version is Optional.

More likely, if people choose to install the security-only UPDATE instead to the Monthly ROLLUP, they would not get this update. And MS probably wants to be sure EVERYONE is exposed to the ma… ooops, I mean service.

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lizzytish

I think this patch follows the old pattern, Optional/Recommended/Important and does not take into account the new criteria.

At the moment, there are 2 versions on offer, under the same KB number (for Windows 7).
The October 2016 version is Recommended.
The February 2017 version is Optional.

I’ll pass on either of these offers, as well as the previous iterations.
Perhaps they should renumber the KB2952664 to KB2952666 ‘the number of the beast within’
Thanks for your persistence MS and you know where you can stick that KB patch..

Keeping IT Lean, Clean and Mean!

Is it recommended that we hide this update until further notice?

Depends on your point of view on MS’s snooping. If you are against it, hide the patch. If you don’t care, don’t worry about it.
You will see both camps here – both trying to convince the other.

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lizzytish

lol @PKCano you missed the 3rd group “So long as it doesent crash it” we don’t care group 🙂

The problem is that MS does not say what exactly they’re doing and that in itself is suspicious. And even if they did, they can’t be trusted. So who knows whether it’s just snooping. If I had to guess, that’s unlikely.

Given the state of W10 I would expect them to extend snooping for better monitoring of the 7 and 8 and 1511 holders and their settings to find any weaknesses that they can use to force updates when they see fit.

Regardless of what this patch does or does not implement, it is still in Optional, so you can ignore it.
If you normally install this patch (we are at version 20+ already), wait until it becomes Recommended or Important.
Or even better yet, wait for Woody to signal the change of MS-DEFCON to 3 or above.

There’s never any reason to hide a patch.

Simply ignore it. That’s all. And make sure Automatic Update is turned off.

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ch100

How do you know what is coming down on Patch Tuesday, when it is currently Thursday?

For some countries it is currently Friday. But nowhere is it Tuesday on Earth.

A day on Pluto is 6.4 Earth Days, therefore, it is currently Tuesday on Pluto.

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lizzytish

Perhaps due to the stalling of upgrades/purchases of Windows 10 over the last couple of months, MS are preparing for round two of a free upgrade ‘limited period only’ from Windows versions 7 & 8.1 with no GWX campaign or forced upgrades this time…

Keeping IT Lean, Clean and Mean!

Win7 Pro-64 SP1. I had previously hidden KB2952664 each time it popped up. From my older screen shots, the last version I had hidden was published 10/11/2016 and its size was listed as 4.7 – 4.8 MB and it was optional and recommended in italics. I checked after reading this article and yes I do have the newer version showing as dated 2/9/2017 as optional but not yet recommended but with the size listed as a 6.0MB file, an increase. When I selected the KB link is gave me information Rev.11 and most of the files listed for the update have 10.xx version numbers.

I then unhid the October version and it now shows two versions available as Optional with the October one also recommended and in italics. Clicking on the KB number of the October gave only the current information.

I hid both versions. I only hide the Big 4 telemetry patches, and hardware offerings that I can grab from the manufacturer websites. I wonder what was added that increased the size. I still believe this update is not just an end unto itself, but a key to a larger end and that end is not documented. I remain concerned that reports here show it overrides or does not respond to settings.

I guess at the core of this is that I am afraid some patch will leave me the small ‘present’ or poison pill of grayed out options in Windows Update for the settings to ‘Notify but do not download” or the “do not check.”

The timing of its re-re-release just before a patch Tuesday is further cause for caution. Does an upcoming part of the February Rollup need it? Yep, DEFINITELY MS-DEFCON 2, and besides it is still listed as optional. Still Group B.

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Pepsiboy, SueW, lizzytish, Chris M

I know most of you are way over my head in knowledge about the machinations of Windows…….. but
after reading all this………. you know what comes to my mind………. FUD.….and MS is the one responsible for creating FEAR/UNCERTAINTY/DOUBT in our minds. Also another thing that I thought of ………. all this is exactly like the FUD that was created before the Iraqi Invasion…. and really it only would have taken one single action from Sadam Hussain to dispel this…..
Now MS are sitting there knowing full well that they could just neutralize this whole thing by coming out and stating what they are collecting and for what purposes……… But somehow they seem to be enjoying this feeling of power they hold over all of us. And that’s the crux of the business world at large…… CONTROL……….. what ever happened to CO-OPERATION…. And the thing that stays in my mind is the fact in their EULA they state that we give them the right to our data by accepting to use their OS. just my 2 bits! LT

The fairies went from the world, dear, Because men’s hearts grew cold: And only the eyes of children see What is hidden from the old.
– Kathleen Foyle

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Jonesy, Elly

By goodness I think you’ve got it.

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lizzytish

I think we have a decent idea of what KB2952664 does (at least the older version that I tested). KB2952664 adds task Microsoft Compatibility Appraiser. Task Microsoft Compatibility Appraiser is a gatherer of information that is sent to Microsoft by service Diagnostics Tracking Service.

Detailed KB2952664 (older version) test results: https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/care-to-join-a-win7-snooping-test/#post-21407.

Method of listing the telemetry data that Diagnostics Tracking Service sends to Microsoft: https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/care-to-join-a-win7-snooping-test/#post-21414.

I will test the newer version of KB2952664 when time permits.

MrBrian

9 users thanked author for this post.

Jonesy, Bill C., SueW, Microfix, ch100, Elly, woody, lizzytish, PKCano

You did a great job last time. Thanks.

@ Woody,

Is there anyway of putting this post by @anonymous right up at the top, or close to it? This is critical information, the kind of info most people would want to know when they are starting to read this thread from the top.

It is, of course, really annoying that MS keeps bringing back this KB and it certainly makes people more suspicious of what MS is up to these days. But then again, MS seems to be making more and ore mistakes. I can’t see this is being a great business model, but hey, I don’t own stock in the company and I am using Win7.

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Elly

You really want this?

https://mspoweruser.com/cortana-now-automatically-reminds-you-of-the-commitments-you-make-in-your-emails-in-windows-10/

No!!! LT

If Miss Cortana can read users’ emails, that means M$ can also read users’ emails.
If M$ can read Win 10 users’ emails, that means the NSA can also read users’ emails and may be already reading some of the users’ emails.

@ jmwoods

Aren’t most emails personally identifiable.?

Email is sent in clear text between mail servers and there is no other way with the current implementation. Even the binary attachments are re-encoded in clear text (Base 64).
It is far easier to intercept email by those interested while travelling over the internet with basic tools. No need for the sophistication of Cortana.

The problem with encrypted email is that the tools for encryption/decryption need to be available at both ends and can be sent only between senders/recipients known to each other. This is non-standard email and cannot be used for general purpose.
Corporate email though is normally encrypted with the later Exchange versions, but this would affect only email in traffic through the internal network and nothing else.

A little dissenting opinion here.

I use Gmail and Google Calendar and I LIKE the fact that Gmail scans my mail for flights and automatically puts them on my calendar.

https://support.google.com/calendar/answer/6084018?co=GENIE.Platform%3DDesktop&hl=en

But Windows 7 is a different story. I think Win7 customers have a reasonable expectation that Microsoft will adhere to the data collections rules – the norms – that existed when they bought the product.

As @jmwoods points out quite correctly, vendors frequently change the terms of their agreements and leave you with “take it or leave it” as your only option. In the case of Win7, I think that stinks. Which is why I continue to hold out the hope that “Group B” will remain a viable alternative – security patches only, with none of the cruft.

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Jonesy, SueW, Elly

Some valid points raised regarding the patches concerned but, reading this thread:
I never knew Cortana was associated with patches to Win 7 & 8.1!?
Where does Win 10 come into patches for 7 & 8.1?

As many have pointed out, these patches are ‘Optional’ so don’t install if you don’t feel comfortable with them.
Wait until Woody’s MS-Defcon indicator has reduced then, it’s make YOUR mind up time! Simple 🙂

You are right anonymous……… about waiting for Woody’s MS-Defcon, but at least my own rationale in including Win10 in this debate is the fact that the patch in question is one that has telemetry in it……. and therefore VERY SUSPICIOUS to most. And that is the reason most of those Win7 users (me included) do not particularly want to upgrade to Win10 with all the ramifications that is part of that OS ….. including CORTANA. So naturally the debate has progressed along that path of privacy/telemetry of which CORTANA plays a big part. Another thing that patch may be optional today/this month……….but could and might very well be Important next month…….. or even wrapped into another patch……… ssshhhhh……. did I say that ???? LT

“Life is like a can of sardines and we are all looking for the key.” Alan Bennett

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Jonesy, Elly

KB2952664 was released as an unchecked optional/optional on Feb 9. The optional patches that are released prior to Patch Tuesday are often “staged” for important/recommended release on Patch Tuesday. This has been MS’s MO for a long time.
Patch Tuesday is next week. And my prediction is that it will disappear from the optional patches sometime on Monday 13th and reappear as a checked important (probably recommended, not critical) on Patch Tuesday 14th.
At least we have had a “Heads-up.”

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Elly

There is no association between Cortana and Windows 7 or 8.1 patches.
How did you come up with this idea?

A bit late to the party, but just to confirm I now have TWO versions of KB2952664, one I ignored back in October 2016 (sitting alongside several other little rascals from 2015), and one which arrived yesterday. The first is in italics (recommended) but the latest one isn’t (yet). Possibly/presumably the latest one will replace the older one in the next week or so. I’m leaving well alone and giving thanks once more to Woody and the other key contributors on here.

Win10 22H2 Pro, MBAM Premium, Firefox, OpenOffice, Sumatra PDF.

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Jonesy, ch100

Yep, @ch100 has confirmed that’s the case – the old version is recommended, the new version is optional.

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ch100

Kb2952664 & kb2976978 will never go away. I do believe its the intentions of Microsloth to have everybody on windows 10, eventually. And the problems 10 has, i dont want no part of. My gut is saying that one day many of us will go to our pc’s one morning and find it changed over. Thats why i reactivated my GWx control panel again. A little extra protection wont hurt.

I have posted before: the use of GWX Control Panel is a good preliminary first line to let you know if W10 is trying to infiltrate your computer.

The Get Windows 10 campaign is over. Windows 10 is no longer free, and Microsoft is no longer forcing Windows 10 on Win7/8.1 computers. You no longer need GWX Control Panel.

“Windows 10 is no longer free”

Actually, yes it is.

You can still use a valid Windows 7/8.1 product key to ‘upgrade’ to Windows 10 for free. A friend of mine did it recently (December) for his wife’s computer which was running Windows 7.

Yup Win10 is still free but not through the online upgrade offers which ended July 2016.
must perform the Win10 upgrade offline thru either a USB or DVD install from a genuine Win7 or Win8.1 machine. also the Win10 upgrade is STILL FREE for those using “assistive technologies” and there hasn’t been an announcement from MS as to when that will end.

it’s not necessary to install either KB2952664 or KB2976978 before upgrading to Win10 when done thru a DVD or USB installation.

@EP
It may not be necessary to install KB2952664/KB2976978 before upgrading in place from Windows 7/8.1 to Windows 10 offline, but I would suggest it is still better practice to try to avoid upgrading issues as much as possible. Either way, upgrading in place can easily become a risky adventure, especially for those who are not able to read into what happens behind the scenes to be able to recover a potentially half-failed process.

That behaviour looks more like a loophole than intended functionality.
So do not count on it forever.

Deja Vu hate and discussion over a well-known optional update
with every version of it 😀

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ch100

A lot of people are angry, or afraid. As long as it stays optional, I have no quarrel.

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lizzytish, Elly

ch100 wrote:

If you don’t service the car according to the manufacturer’s specifications, are you still covered by warranty?

Maybe that’s my problem… same car, these last 20 years. Can hardly remember it being under a warranty.

Works great, great gas mileage, and don’t have to worry that the grandkids might mess it up.

Yep, I take care of the maintenance and repairs.

So glad the manufacturers aren’t allowed to run around adding or taking away things to the cars they’ve sold so that customers are so frustrated they will buy new ones, or track my driving habits, or that they don’t decide I can’t run it any more and disable it…

…and I don’t want the high tech that invades the privacy in new vehicles, either…

I really think that there will be viable small business models that will disable the telemetry that manufacturers are adding to cars, computing, and smart appliances… an updating of the local handyman that will specialize in configuring your devices, appliances, autos, and home security so that they don’t violate your privacy.

Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter

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RamRod, Jonesy, lizzytish, SueW

anonymous wrote:

I never knew Cortana was associated with patches to Win 7 & 8.1!?
Where does Win 10 come into patches for 7 & 8.1?

Back in 2015, when many people were considering taking the free (mostly optional, if you knew how to avoid it) Win 10 upgrade, Microsoft was saying “Customers can always turn Cortana off, putting the customer in control of Cortana.”
(see info they released to http://www.computerworld.com/article/2956773/emerging-technology/microsoft-responds-to-windows-10-privacy-policy-concerns.html)

But now, Cortana is extremely difficult to “turn off”, and data collection and transfer happens whether you want it to or not. Opting out means not a simple button to turn off, but tech knowledge, and firewalls. Many people who “upgraded” feel misled and betrayed. Some were involuntarily “upgraded”. So people are suspicious of any updates that may subject them to more abuse.

Snooping patches KB 2952664 (for Win7), KB 2976978 (Win 8.1) were associated with the GWX campaign, but it also seems they are useful for back porting the (hated) Win 10 telemetry into Win 7 and 8. There are other snooping patches. All of them seem to be designed to move Win 7 and 8 to collecting and transfering data, just like Win 10 does…

Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter

Vizio TV’s where hit when they where found to be spying, why is Microsoft exempt

It couldn’t hurt to let GWX Control Panel run. It does
doesn’t take much room on Cpu and doesn’t slow my desktop down. Am
Am running-Windows Vista 7 SP1 X64 HOME X64 HOME PREMIUM.

lo, so optional this week for the first round beta appliers. Then next week it will be recommended as they release the fixed patch based on what they get from this weeks optional beta…

So after reading all of this I am still confused on if this patch really does anything great or not? Should we just wait until it is made recommended or folded into the monthly patch block?

Don’t install anything that is not checked already – that includes the optional patches.
Don’t install any Feb patches when they are released next Tuesday until Woody’s DECFON number is 3 or above.
Don’t install hardware drivers from MS – go the the manufacturer’s website or your computer manufacturer’s website and download them.
Other than that, for patches from Jan and before, things are OK to install.

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Elly

If the US public does not defend freedom of choice and right to privacy, it does not deserve it. Having been born and raised in the Soviet block, believe me you don’t want the consequences. But perhaps because they have never experienced tyranny the American public can’t stop tyranny.

I found KB 2976978 on one of my 8.1 systems and tried to uninstall it. No luck.
Also tried uninstalling as administrator from cmd. Again no luck.
Everywhere I have looked for help says it cannot be uninstalled. Is that so?

Try a restore point before it was installed. You will have to redo any system changes after the restore point (Win updates, program updates, etc) but at least you will be aware not to install it again.

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Elly

Yep, but as I demonstrated in April, after installing 2952664, the telemetry routines run whether CEIP is turned on or not.

No idea if that’s still the case.

6 users thanked author for this post.

SueW, Cesar, Elly, lizzytish, walker, ch100

@Woody: Does the new KB2952664 come out as a “new” version? Mine is sitting
in the “Optionals”, unchecked, and italicized.

Win 7, x64, Home Prem. Group B

Not much information out there at the present time that I can see.

Thanks for keeping us all up to date on what’s occurring! 🙂 🙂 🙂

Will DiagTrack stay disabled if you install this patch? And how about the tasks in Task Scheduler associated under Application Experience, Autochk, and CEIP – are they disabled and will they remain so? Until it’s installed – who knows?

This may be optional, but MS would still like you to install it……….. without really allaying one’s concerns regarding all this. So this together with what has gone before and their complete silence on the matter has created FUD. I know you are someone who has a better grasp on this perhaps…….and also may be not so strongly averse to snooping and privacy issues as I am…….. and I respect that. Each to his own….. LT

The FUD comes from deliberately misleading the microsoft customer base, making informed consent impossible. We can’t tell what or why they are doing (uncertainty). If what we can see and know is coercive and immoral, I can reasonably figure what I can’t see is worse… and that is scary (fear). Microsoft is clearly not acting in the best interests of me, the customer… and I doubt I will do any kind of business with them again.

Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter

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Bill C., 212louis, Cybertooth, lizzytish

FUD is created not only by doing or saying something. In fact it is much easier to create it by doing or saying nothing.

Besires, they used to document their patches and they stopped. That’s doing something, no?

3 users thanked author for this post.

Elly, JNP, lizzytish

You agreed to information gathering and telemetry when you accepted the EULA.

No………. that’s the point I didn’t /wouldn’t accept Win10……. until I know what it is
they are collecting and what for and if I feel comfortable about it all.

That’s why most of us are here…….. trying to come to terms/understand what this is all about.

And to say that no one has yet shown evidence doesn’t really sit well with me either.
and thanks for your input I do appreciate it…….. LT

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Elly

Much hinges on the definition of “personally identifiable.”

There’s no question that Cortana stores information that’s identified with your Microsoft Account. Ditto for Edge settings and (soon) IE settings. Ditto for the advertising id, which few people know about. Ditto for Bing searches. Location info for Maps. The From, To and Subject lines of emails thru Windows Mail.

I, personally, think all of those are “personally identifiable.” There are many other examples where Microsoft clearly identifies stored information with an individual account.

What about the ads for Edge that only appear on machines that use Chrome? Is that personally identifiable? I don’t know. The ads (“suggestions”) for apps that appear in the Win10 Start menu? And on and on.

Microsoft could do themselves a huge favor if they simply listed all of the data they collect, and give users ways to examine the data and delete anything they find objectionable.

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Elly, lizzytish

Seems to me Win 7 allowed me to opt out of CEIP, and I did. That was all the telemetry, and I didn’t agree to it. That was then… now? Same operating system on the same computer… Microsoft is changing the rules after the fact, and doesn’t want to give me the option to disagree, but if I insist on disagreeing, sending info anyways? That is just wrong…

Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter

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woody

Did we have any real choice not to agree? And if the choice was practically forced on us, does it mean I should accept it?

Lots of people talk about the freedom of choice but very few understand what it means. Having a choice does not necessarily mean free choice. If a mugger puts a gun to your had and asks for your money, you have a choice, but it is a forced choice. Free choice means you have some control over the options.

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Elly

@ jmwoods ……. M$ insist on Win 10 users logging in or registering with their personal M$ account, eg if they wanna use Windows Store n synch their devices/settings. That’s likely to also enable M$ to personally identify the users when M$ collect their Telemetry & Data.
In comparison, Win 7 users were not required at all to log in with a personal M$ account, ie only a local account of username/password.
This is similar to how Askwoodydotcom or Woody is able to personally identify users who hv registered n post but not those who did not register n post ANONYMOUSly.

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Cybertooth, Elly

@ jmwoods

Also, let’s say, u are an American traitor or Russia’s spy or Muslim terrorist/financier, how are M$ going to provide all yr Win 10 cptr activities, eg emails n web-chats, when requested to do so by the NSA with a Federal court order if M$ do not personally identify each of their Win 10 users.?

>Has anyone ever proved conclusively that Microsoft collects “personally identifiable information”?

You got it backwards. We should not have to prove that, they should prove they don’t.

Has anyone ever proved conclusively that Microsoft collects “personally identifiable information”?

Again, it comes down to what you mean by “PII.” There’s no question at all that Microsoft collects personally identifiable information in order to make certain features work. Bing or Cortana collect your search history, for example. And so on. All of that is identified with your Microsoft Account and/or you advertising id.

http://www.infoworld.com/article/2956715/microsoft-windows/privacy-and-advertising-in-windows-10-both-sides-of-the-story.html

Back in the days of Dr Watson, Microsoft was much, much more circumspect in collecting data. Times have changed – now every OS/browser/TV does so.

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Jonesy, Elly

@ jmwoods

Fyi, KB2952664 was first released in April 2015,
http://www.infoworld.com/article/2911609/operating-systems/kb-2952664-compatibility-update-for-win7-triggers-unexpected-daily-telemetry-run-may-be-snooping.html

The current one is version 21.

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walker

You gotta be kidding. There are much better ways to waste one’s time.

You seem to insist telling people that just because they signed they should not complain. This is precisely the attitude corporations want to instill in you. Sign and shut up.

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Jonesy

@ jmwoods says

But information gathering and telemetry also occurs with Windows 7 and Windows 8.1, so if you run those, you agreed when you accepted the EULA.

Win 7/8.1 users can legally block nearly all security updates, Telemetry & Data collection by M$, even for Windows Update Service, as per the Win 7/8.1 EULA, not so for Win 10 as per its EULA. Whether it is wise for Win 7/8.1 users to do so is another topic, eg those in Group C/W.

IOW, the Win 7/8.1 EULA does not prohibit the users from doing the above, but not the Win 10 EULA, eg mandatory auto-updates and cumulative updates for Win 10 users = M$ can legally deactivate any Win 10 OS that did not accept mandatory auto-updates and cumulative updates, even though M$ hv not yet done so.

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lizzytish, woody, Elly

This is for Win7 ONLY.

Proof of PII?

If you mean as a routine occurrence in Win7-64 Pro, i.e., targeting and seeking your personal data, I have no proof as MS had given nothing that can be considered proof.

However, if you used the Action Center to send data of crash data (crashdumps) to MS, yes it is there. However, I do not believe they are intentionally TARGETING that potentially PII data. If an application that contained user added data (think Word Processing, Excel, etc.) from examining the data and memory dumps with a text editor, I have found the entire contents of a letter I was working on, as well as the cell contents of spreadsheets. The letter included my full address (since it was a letter) and the crashdump included the test of the entire letter.

Now the question becomes is that data strained out or anonymized or minimized. I suspect yes (actually since I have never, ever had the action center respond to anything except on the first run tests of the build, it may actually go nowhere ;)). However crashes in MS Office for me have been exceptionally rare.

Now IE is another question and that contains all types of data including text and file names and the actual content of a web pages and links and I suspect the browser cache. However, again I do not believe they are intentionally TARGETING that potentially PII data. Win 7 data that has been made visible does not appear to be a hoovering to monetize your data and direct ads and build a “personalized” experience like under Win10.

Now with these campaigns to get KB2952664 installed, who knows, but it is optional, so why bother.

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Elly

@ jmwoods

Yes, u are correct about the Win 10 activation. My apologies.

Actually, M$ can legally stop providing support to any Win 10 user who has refused to accept mandatory auto-updates, cumulative updates and they are not allowed to refuse or block Telemetry & Data collection by M$(= deactivation.?), as per the EULA,

““Updates are cumulative, with each update built upon all of the updates that preceded it,” the Microsoft note reads. (Emphasis to follow was added by me.) “A device needs to install the latest update to remain supported. Updates may include new features, fixes (security and/or non-security), or a combination of both. Not all features in an update will work on all devices. A device may not be able to receive updates if the device hardware is incompatible, lacking current drivers, or otherwise outside of the Original Equipment Manufacturer’s (‘OEM’) support period. Update availability may vary, for example by country, region, network connectivity, mobile operator (e.g., for cellular-capable devices), or hardware capabilities (including, e.g., free disk space).”

https://www.petri.com/even-with-updating-changes-windows-10-will-retain-10-year-support-lifecycle
.
.
.

Finally, we will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary.

http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/bitwise/2015/08/windows_10_privacy_problems_here_s_how_bad_they_are_and_how_to_plug_them.html

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Elly

Too much FUD around here.
What is wrong with this?
“Actually, M$ can legally stop providing support to any Win 10 user who has refused to accept mandatory auto-updates”.

If you don’t service the car according to the manufacturer’s specifications, are you still covered by warranty?

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Microfix

@ jmwoods

The Slate article had no link to Microsoft’s “statement”, so I don’t take it seriously without supporting documentation.

Fyi, most people who follow Win 10 news since 2015 are aware of this M$ Privacy Policy for Win 10.
https://www.google.com/#q=Finally%2C+we+will+access%2C+disclose+and+preserve+personal+data%2C+including+your+content+(such+as+the+content+of+your+emails%2C+other+private+communications+or+files+in+private+folders)%2C+when+we+have+a+good+faith+belief+that+doing+so+is+necessary.
http://www.computerworld.com/article/2956773/emerging-technology/microsoft-responds-to-windows-10-privacy-policy-concerns.html

Yeah, but it’s not like people signed up for today’s agreement all at once. Many have had to sign what they felt are less and less acceptable agreements as they have become more and more inured. Focused on Windows for an entire lifetime in some cases!

It’s is a bit like that “raise the temperature of the pot slowly until the frogs boil alive” adage. Or a very long game of “bait and switch”.

We have had – in order to continue to run Windows – to agree to more and more intrusive legalese. Even though Microsoft presents the new agreements so that they’re impossible to miss, do folks really feel they’re given reasonable choices? Does anyone really feel they actually (emotionally) AGREE with them? Or just click through to try to make it go away?

It seems to me that most simply want a choice not to have to give any personal information to Microsoft. Making the only way to get that to never run another Microsoft package is not reasonable!

Yet Microsoft is (and the other tech companies are) making their business model ALL ABOUT taking that valuable information from us.

It seems like it’s become a partnership where one partner has changed for the worse, and is doing things the other partner doesn’t want. Most folks would probably try to reconcile in that situation. Talk it through, get the wayward partner to come back to the straight and narrow. Find an acceptable compromise. But if a partner just keeps making things worse, the differences could become irreconcilable…

Divorces are not undertaken lightly, and are usually hard on the participants. Starting over is not easy.

-Noel

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Jonesy, Elly

One of the reasons there used to be prevention of monopolies and oligopolies in this country is precisely to avoid situations in which corps would be in a position to dictate that the only choice you have to avoid sell yourself down the river is not to use their product/service, which would be very costly.

That has no longer been the case for a long time. Practically all the tech companies are monopolies and behemoth keep proliferating. This is precisely the reason why the right to privacy was lost and the corps won’t rest until they demolish all of them that you’ve had.

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Bill C., Elly

@ ch100

Well, with Win 7/8.1, which has a real 10 yr support lifecycle until 2020/2023, a Win 8.1 user can stop updates for a few years(eg to hide Telemetry updates n be in Group C/W) n will still be supported by M$ in 2022 when he/she decides to restart updates.

Not so with Win 10 which is supposed to hv a 10 yr support lifecycle until 2025, eg Win 10 RTM Version 1507 will not be supported by M$ after March 2017, even if the users decide to restart mandatory auto-updates in April 2017 = an effective support lifecycle of only 18 months.

ch100 wrote:

Too much FUD around here.
What is wrong with this?
“Actually, M$ can legally stop providing support to any Win 10 user who has refused to accept mandatory auto-updates”.

If you don’t service the car according to the manufacturer’s specifications, are you still covered by warranty?

Exactly +1 🙂
‘Sorting the wheat from the chaff’ seems to be more difficult for some.

Keeping IT Lean, Clean and Mean!

@ ch100

If you don’t service the car according to the manufacturer’s specifications, are you still covered by warranty?

Fyi, car manufacturers do not normally provide free servicing to their buyers, ie car-buyers usually do the regular servicing themselves, eg by sending their cars to a mechanic-shop n paying for the servicing costs, eg an engine oil change.

In comparison, M$ provide free support services(= mainstream and extended support) to Windows OS-buyers for a maximum of 10 years, eg provide security updates, ie Windows OS-buyers do not do the support service of their Windows OS themselves.

So, u gave a wrong analogy.

+1 😀

@ jmwoods

Fyi

Attachments:
You must be logged in to view attached files.

You don’t need to do anything. Just don’t check it, and you’ll be fine.

@ jmwoods

Fyi, most people write personal stuffs in their emails, esp to relatives n close friends n colleagues. So, if M$ and the NSA can read all the emails sent by a person, they will very likely be able to identify him/her.
If not, Hillary Clinton’s leaked emails would not hv identified her as the sender.

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Elly

C’mon, folks. This is far too personal. Back to the topic, please.

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SueW

@ jmwoods

https://privacy.microsoft.com/en-us/privacystatement/

The first version was released on April 22, 2014
https://web.archive.org/web/20140425072337/http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2952664

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SueW

anonymous wrote:

@ jmwoods

Fyi

Attachments:
You must be logged in to view attached files.

Let’s see if I can copy that attachment into a message so it won’t be hidden to the anonymous. We are all still learning how the Lounge works. I don’t think that was a deliberate attempt to leave anyone out.

A formatting issue… 🙂

Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter

But since they don’t give you any details and today selling personal data is the easiest and most profitable business model, not to mention feeding govt demands in return for corporate favors (particularly with the kind of govt we have today) and given their despicable behavior, is there any reason I should give them the benefit of the doubt?

I won’t label those who feel it’s their responsibility to defend corporations for fear I will be banned. 🙂 Corporations are destroying this country.

And your task is to defend MS no matter what. I got it.

Addressing problems like those inflicted by govt or corporations requires collective, not individual action — I strongly recommend you read THE LOGIC OF COLLECTIVE ACTION by Mancur Olson. There is a paradox involved in such action which those who own the country understand very well and the public does not. Every effort is made to atomize society and make sure collective action either does not occur, or fails. It works exceedingly well.

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Elly

Again, backwards and upside down.

Users should not have to block anything. They should opt in to let MS do anything.

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Jonesy, lizzytish, Elly

I think I remember somewhere ch100 or abbodie saying you had to do this for each of the twenty smoe-odd versions, b/c when you uninstalled one the next one down the supersedance chain took it’s place. Been a while – memory may be fading.